We get a new release in about two months, and *we're* past 4. See, these Linux newbies haven't even caught up with that Gates character's 3.1.
While the strange affirmative actions really shouldn't happen, it's really more important that FreeBSD and our little brother Linux form a united front againat the *real* enemy we have in common: NetBSD.
> We're not talking a couple of MHz, we're talking 130MHz
To put this in perspective, when I got hear a year and a half ago, that difference is the entire speed of the machine sitting on my desk when I got here a year and a half ago, a 133 pentathingy with 160M. (yes, I know speed isn't linear, but when you consider the memory subsytem is four times as fast, uses less cycles as well, and is 2 or 4 times as wide, as well as cache & fpu . ..)
hawk, now using a 1G laptop and waiting for his dual athlon workstation
Now I need to call my local shop and have them change the quote they're working on:)
I thought we were going dual 1800 XP's, since the MP only went to 1.2. But this morning, checking the price of this chip, I discover 1800MP's all over the world, for a small price increase.
So what do I do??? Dual 1900 XP's? Dual 1800 MP?
This system is for smashing numbers and making sure that my code doesn't bring down the system before running it on the heavy iron (hey, bring down the beowolf or the SP2 too often and they get mad:).
or is a 1900 MP likely to be hot on the tail of all this?
Put in those terms, I suppose it makes sense:) If I was still using linux rather than bsd, it would likely be slackware by now . . .
I was using unix before the mac came out (but not by much). When I bought my first mac in 84 (the 128k, but with the second drive), the other alternative was building my own AT (and not from a pre-made motherboard). I decideed I'd had enough of that.
I went back from mac to Unix over lyx (and there were several things I still missed), and actually toyed with the idea of a Mac with OS/X for my next worstation--but it wouldn't match the raw horsepower I can get with dual athlons on the budget, and this is a pure number cruncher. I still see X as a way to manage my xterms and the only way to display lyx.
Still, though, it seems a bit odd to want the absolute, bare-bones control, and at the same time want hte eye candy:)
Do people really do that? The traits/interests/whatever that would lead one to use slackware, nad those that would lead tto KDE or Gnome, seem to point in opposite directions. Not just opposite directions, but opposite extremes . . .
> Debian seems to appeal to people who always want to
> run the latest & greatest stuff
they're not going to be very successful . . . if you want to run anything even vaguely recent, you need to use either the unstable or testing distributions.
>There is also a whole separate
>class of Debian users who choose it primarily because it's not
>commercial and/or because it's called GNU/Linux
And there's another large crowd of us for whom our systems suddenlty announcing themselves as "GNU/Linux" was the last straw and went and looked at FreeBSD again (and have never looked back . ..)
>If old time Slack users start jumping ship, it seems more likely to me
>that they will go over to the BSD side than start using Debian.
That I'll certainly agree with. However, I'll concede that Debian is quite often the last Linux distribution that many people use as their experience grows--that is, the last step before switching to *BSD:)
>So, yes, if you have some 486's you should probably be running (DOS!) Linux
>with NO X windowing (that would be very slow, maybe unless you had
>sufficient memory).
8 megs? 16 megs? I still regularly use a 486 laptop with 20M under X. It's not a problem.
hawk
Re:Interesting point of departure...
on
Netscape 6.2
·
· Score: 2
>This is a joke, right? These binary compatibility things may exist as
>intellectual exercises, but try making them work with real software.
Huh?
The linux versions of Netscape, StarOffice, and VMWare all work fine on this FreeBSD machine . . .
I tend to disagree with you here. Just yesterday I switched my network
card from one PCI slot to another one (
You think that's bad? Try it under vmware. It somehow got a second network card into the hardware profile, and failed for having two. Physically removing a non-existent card isn't even an option. I wnt through several rounds of tellling it it to deinstall/remove that piece of hardware without success. Then, suddenly and for no apparent reason, I came in one day and the second one was gone. It was worse than when the home machine got confused about the modem and I had to physcicallyt remove, deinstall, physically replace, deinstall, physically remove, etc. a couple of times before it caught on . . .
hawk, who doesn't really hate windows, except when he's recently been forced to use it . . .
Apple was consistently more expensive than low-end pc manufacturers. Comparable equipment was (generally) about the same price as IBM, Compaq, etc. On top of that, in a corporate environment in the 80's and early 90's, support costs were roughly 1/4 as much for mac as pc--you recovered any cost difference in the machines in the first year, and had a couple more years to go.
So, yes, if you looked at the cheapest thing you could buy of the current generation, apple was generally more expensive. If you looked at comparable brands, though, the difference wasn't all that much.
Alta vista was *not* a stand-alone site in its heyday. It had an explicit purpose: show off the capacity of the alpha servers by having a capacity *far* beyond any other choices.
When it was a marketing demonstration, it was spectacular. Then came the sad day when it was seen as a business of its own, and it fell fast . . .
*sigh* THe average slashdot reader probably wasn't born yet when we were cdoing this . . .
The mechanical consoles needed time to return the carriage to the left margian. As such, ^M frequently had a delay built into the drivers. This frequently carried over to vt's.
The DEC-20 mainframe (upgraded to a staggering half a meg of memory my senior year [but that was probably half a meg of 36 bit words]) went down, a lot, but usually managed to give a couple of minutes of warning.
Among other things, we send a mail to a neurotic friend across the room, interrupting a sentence with
[%DEC-SYSTEM 20 GOING DOWN IN 10 SECONDS%]
followed by several timing slugs and then
[%DEC-SYSTEM 20 DOWN%]
You could also use the slugs for asci animation on a single line.
Several years ago, probably about '93, a very concerned and agitated airport security agent demanded, "sir, what's in that box."
"Huh"
"Your box. Over there."
Sitting atop the conveyor system, one of the copy-paper boxes we'd packed stuff in was jumping up and down. I thought for a moment, and started laughing.
We'd bought my toddler a bubmle-ball. The stupid things turn on by pushing the button in . . .
> (Real separate accounts...not that win98 profiling crap)
Yes, this bigotted profiling has *got* to stop. It's wrong. It's evil.
Every day, thousands of people are stopped, just for using win98. Computer hardware is biased, assuming that win98 is more likely to crash than *nix. "Application" error, it says, as it stops the user for "investigation." "General Protection Fault", as it pulls the application away. Then, as civil libertarians try to investigates, it blue screens, all based on the notion that win98 users are less reliable.
>Re:640 Newtons
>
> by [amorphis] on 11:51 AM October 23rd, 2001 (Score:0, Offtopic)
> ([26]User #45762 Info)
>
> funny, but whomever modded that up as "Informative" is smoking crack.
Hey, I think we found the moderator.
OK, crack-addled moderator, we know you don't want to be commented on, but the first step is admitting you have a problem. If I can stop practicing law, you can stop moderating on crack:)
I definitely agree that the original moderation was funny.
On the emacs thing, little brother saw the topic, along with the taco's near-invitation for vi-emacs flame wars. Little brother saw that, and claims to have nearly wet his pants laughing upon noticing it was me that took the bait (with a well crafted comment, if I do say so myself:). That's OK; I nearly did the same over the "informative" rating . . .
>funny, but whomever modded that up as "Informative" is smoking crack
yes, I never cease to be amused by the moderations on my posts. Heck, it's one of the few reasons to still bother with slashdot:) referring to emacs users as heretics got similar treatment.
however, I note that quite frequently, the resulting moderation is something other than was selected . . . and not always in the correct direction . . .
>Out of five stores that have
>layable demos within a ten mile area, only two have working units,"
>ays one Babbage's employee." It's funny because it's Microsoft. Get
>t? It's... oh never mind. Is DOA3 still planned as x-box only?
so far, DOA3 is only available at 3 of the 5 stores in the local area. After an hour or two, though, it's likely that DOA4 will arrive, with DOA5 applying by the end of the day . . .
It's the NIH. National Institute of Health. Choose your favorite nasty. They have it in there.
There *are* concerted efforts to use these type of agents against the public right now. Would you feel comfortable if people *could* walk in and out of NIH unchecked? Sandia National Laboratory?
There are plenty of civil rights issues to worry about in the current climate. Searches by that particular employer are not one of them.
Trial keys? I have a license. It runs fine. I wish I understood samba or how to put an nfs client on windows, but that's life . . .
My primary use is desktop; I've never needed to serve mroe than employment web pages and class materials. I've had less problems with building ports than packages. Aside from that, the only difference I've seen on the deskop (which I assume is long gone) is that X under FreeBSD is still usable and responsive at loads of 20, while under linux it used to get choppy at 3 or 4, and wretched long before 10. Again, date this by the 200mhz K6 on which I discovered this:)
Slashdot Mirror
While the strange affirmative actions really shouldn't happen, it's really more important that FreeBSD and our little brother Linux form a united front againat the *real* enemy we have in common: NetBSD.
:)
hawk
To put this in perspective, when I got hear a year and a half ago, that difference is the entire speed of the machine sitting on my desk when I got here a year and a half ago, a 133 pentathingy with 160M. (yes, I know speed isn't linear, but when you consider the memory subsytem is four times as fast, uses less cycles as well, and is 2 or 4 times as wide, as well as cache & fpu . .
hawk, now using a 1G laptop and waiting for his dual athlon workstation
I thought we were going dual 1800 XP's, since the MP only went to 1.2. But this morning, checking the price of this chip, I discover 1800MP's all over the world, for a small price increase.
So what do I do??? Dual 1900 XP's? Dual 1800 MP?
This system is for smashing numbers and making sure that my code doesn't bring down the system before running it on the heavy iron (hey, bring down the beowolf or the SP2 too often and they get mad
or is a 1900 MP likely to be hot on the tail of all this?
hawk, who has to have the money spent by year end
hawk
I was using unix before the mac came out (but not by much). When I bought my first mac in 84 (the 128k, but with the second drive), the other alternative was building my own AT (and not from a pre-made motherboard). I decideed I'd had enough of that.
I went back from mac to Unix over lyx (and there were several things I still missed), and actually toyed with the idea of a Mac with OS/X for my next worstation--but it wouldn't match the raw horsepower I can get with dual athlons on the budget, and this is a pure number cruncher. I still see X as a way to manage my xterms and the only way to display lyx.
Still, though, it seems a bit odd to want the absolute, bare-bones control, and at the same time want hte eye candy
hawk
hawk
> run the latest & greatest stuff
they're not going to be very successful . . . if you want to run anything even vaguely recent, you need to use either the unstable or testing distributions.
>There is also a whole separate
>class of Debian users who choose it primarily because it's not
>commercial and/or because it's called GNU/Linux
And there's another large crowd of us for whom our systems suddenlty announcing themselves as "GNU/Linux" was the last straw and went and looked at FreeBSD again (and have never looked back . .
>If old time Slack users start jumping ship, it seems more likely to me
>that they will go over to the BSD side than start using Debian.
That I'll certainly agree with. However, I'll concede that Debian is quite often the last Linux distribution that many people use as their experience grows--that is, the last step before switching to *BSD
hawk, running for cover
> 'unix-like' ???
huh? pico? You can certainly say this about vi, but pico is *very* recent. Pine didn't start until the late 80's, and then pico came out of thaqt.
hawk, who used the True Editor on unix long before pico was conceived
>with NO X windowing (that would be very slow, maybe unless you had
>sufficient memory).
8 megs? 16 megs? I still regularly use a 486 laptop with 20M under X. It's not a problem.
hawk
>intellectual exercises, but try making them work with real software.
Huh?
The linux versions of Netscape, StarOffice, and VMWare all work fine on this FreeBSD machine . . .
hawk
card from one PCI slot to another one (
You think that's bad? Try it under vmware. It somehow got a second network card into the hardware profile, and failed for having two. Physically removing a non-existent card isn't even an option. I wnt through several rounds of tellling it it to deinstall/remove that piece of hardware without success. Then, suddenly and for no apparent reason, I came in one day and the second one was gone. It was worse than when the home machine got confused about the modem and I had to physcicallyt remove, deinstall, physically replace, deinstall, physically remove, etc. a couple of times before it caught on . . .
hawk, who doesn't really hate windows, except when he's recently been forced to use it . . .
Well, that's probabably startint with the presumption that MS Office is adequate
hawk
Apple was consistently more expensive than low-end pc manufacturers. Comparable equipment was (generally) about the same price as IBM, Compaq, etc. On top of that, in a corporate environment in the 80's and early 90's, support costs were roughly 1/4 as much for mac as pc--you recovered any cost difference in the machines in the first year, and had a couple more years to go.
So, yes, if you looked at the cheapest thing you could buy of the current generation, apple was generally more expensive. If you looked at comparable brands, though, the difference wasn't all that much.
hawk
When it was a marketing demonstration, it was spectacular. Then came the sad day when it was seen as a business of its own, and it fell fast . . .
hawk
The mechanical consoles needed time to return the carriage to the left margian. As such, ^M frequently had a delay built into the drivers. This frequently carried over to vt's.
The DEC-20 mainframe (upgraded to a staggering half a meg of memory my senior year [but that was probably half a meg of 36 bit words]) went down, a lot, but usually managed to give a couple of minutes of warning.
Among other things, we send a mail to a neurotic friend across the room, interrupting a sentence with
[%DEC-SYSTEM 20 GOING DOWN IN 10 SECONDS%]
followed by several timing slugs and then
[%DEC-SYSTEM 20 DOWN%]
You could also use the slugs for asci animation on a single line.
hawk
"Huh"
"Your box. Over there."
Sitting atop the conveyor system, one of the copy-paper boxes we'd packed stuff in was jumping up and down. I thought for a moment, and started laughing.
We'd bought my toddler a bubmle-ball. The stupid things turn on by pushing the button in . . .
hawk
Yes, this bigotted profiling has *got* to stop. It's wrong. It's evil.
Every day, thousands of people are stopped, just for using win98. Computer hardware is biased, assuming that win98 is more likely to crash than *nix. "Application" error, it says, as it stops the user for "investigation." "General Protection Fault", as it pulls the application away. Then, as civil libertarians try to investigates, it blue screens, all based on the notion that win98 users are less reliable.
This user profiling must be stopped *now*!
:)
hawk
gee, you haven't been paying attention these days. Noting moronic moderation is now consistently getting flagged as off topic, flamebait, etc. . . .
There should be a meta-moderation category of "funny", as the moderations are often more amusingthan the articles . . .
hawk
hawk
>
> by [amorphis] on 11:51 AM October 23rd, 2001 (Score:0, Offtopic)
> ([26]User #45762 Info)
>
> funny, but whomever modded that up as "Informative" is smoking crack.
Hey, I think we found the moderator.
OK, crack-addled moderator, we know you don't want to be commented on, but the first step is admitting you have a problem. If I can stop practicing law, you can stop moderating on crack
hawk
I definitely agree that the original moderation was funny.
On the emacs thing, little brother saw the topic, along with the taco's near-invitation for vi-emacs flame wars. Little brother saw that, and claims to have nearly wet his pants laughing upon noticing it was me that took the bait (with a well crafted comment, if I do say so myself
hawk
yes, I never cease to be amused by the moderations on my posts. Heck, it's one of the few reasons to still bother with slashdot
however, I note that quite frequently, the resulting moderation is something other than was selected . . . and not always in the correct direction . . .
>layable demos within a ten mile area, only two have working units,"
>ays one Babbage's employee." It's funny because it's Microsoft. Get
>t? It's... oh never mind. Is DOA3 still planned as x-box only?
so far, DOA3 is only available at 3 of the 5 stores in the local area. After an hour or two, though, it's likely that DOA4 will arrive, with DOA5 applying by the end of the day . . .
:)
hawk
There *are* concerted efforts to use these type of agents against the public right now. Would you feel comfortable if people *could* walk in and out of NIH unchecked? Sandia National Laboratory?
There are plenty of civil rights issues to worry about in the current climate. Searches by that particular employer are not one of them.
hawk
My primary use is desktop; I've never needed to serve mroe than employment web pages and class materials. I've had less problems with building ports than packages. Aside from that, the only difference I've seen on the deskop (which I assume is long gone) is that X under FreeBSD is still usable and responsive at loads of 20, while under linux it used to get choppy at 3 or 4, and wretched long before 10. Again, date this by the 200mhz K6 on which I discovered this
hawk