I wholeheartedly agree with you and disagree with your father's viewpoint. I am sorry you had to grow up with that. No one deserves to have beliefs forced onto them. And for a Christian to do it is very hypocritical and against what is written in the Bible. It's one thing to speak to someone about your beliefs, and an entirely different thing to force them onto others.
I say including Atheism because it is still based on faith. To accept without proof that there is no god is the same as to have faith that there is no god. Because faith is "belief that is not based on proof."
Okay, I admit to the flaw in my logic (bandwagon). Flaws in logic are bound to happen when discussing an unprovable subject.:) But there are other things that support my point as well, like manuscripts such as the one mentioned in this article as well as many other things. But I don't claim to be an expert on the subject. Thanks for the interesting discussion. I always love intellectual conversation when the other person is not attacking you personally. It always helps to challenge me to think and research more deeply about what I believe.
There's a difference between worship and martyrdom though. I see no mention of death, martyrdom, or anything of the sort in that article. I can worship or idolize a celebrity, but would I die for one? No way!
I wasn't "proving" my point. I just said it was "highly unlikely." If I could prove that Christianity were true, we wouldn't be having this argument, just as if anyone could prove any other religion (including atheism) were true. And neither the Jewish faith (which Christianity is based off of, they just don't believe that Jesus was the Messiah they sre waiting for) nor the Muslim faith was started by people dying for said faith.
I'm not saying it's true that Jesus was resurrected just because a lot of people believe it. I'm just saying that it's highly unlikely that they were nut-job crazy because I can't think of any other time that a group of crazy people accomplished what they have accomplished. You have to admit that it would be pretty impressive for a bunch of nut jobs to make up a lie that, after 2000 years, there would still be no undeniable proof that they had lied. A bunch of geniuses, maybe, but a bunch of nut jobs?
They claimed that he had risen from the dead and that they had seen him. That's not "thinking that Jesus is right" and it's not faith because it's a first hand account.
But if they were nut-job crazy, how would they be so successful? How would their beliefs spread around the world and millions and millions of people would believe them even 2,000 years later? And yes, I believe people go to their grave all the time hiding the truth. What I'm saying is that it is not likely that someone would allow themselves to be killed still professing that a lie is true, with nothing to gain from said lie.
I don't see any mention of a later resurrection in that article. When was the resurrection and who was resurrected? Were the people who died in that article directly involved in starting the lies about that resurrection?
Except that they actually believed what they died for was true. As I said in reply to another post, those first few that died defending Christianity would have known that it were a lie if it were one as it would have been their lie. They would have to have said that Jesus was resurrected and that they saw him and then died knowing that what they said was false.
Except that, again, suicide bombers could actually believe that the "afterlife glory" is true, while if Jesus' resurrection were false, they would have known that it were a lie, as it would have been their lie.
Why would any of the followers of Islam fly to their deaths or blow themselves up if their religion was a lie?
Because they genuinely believe that what they are dying for is true. The disciples (all but one of which died a martyr's death) all would have KNOWN that what they were dying for were a lie if Jesus had not really risen from the dead.
Why would Christian American soldiers be ready to die for God and country (and oil) if it was a lie?
I'm not sure what you're referring to as the lie here, but if it's "Christianity," the same logic applies here.
Why do all the people in insane asylums believe they are Napoleon or Jesus if it's JUST A LIE?!
Again, they don't KNOW that it's a lie, they believe it's true. And this is irrelevant because they aren't DYING for the lie.
I don't think you get the GP's point. The people he is referring to WILLINGLY died supporting that Jesus died and was resurrected. If that were a lie (and they of all people would have known it was a lie), would they have sacrificed their OWN lives?
Except that it makes it an excessively large file. If you need a PDF, save it as a PDF. If you need it as ODF, save it as ODF. If you need both, save it as BOTH. I don't want to have to keep an oversized file around for "compatibility." If that was the way to do it, why not have it formatted in XML, HTML, and plain ASCII text too?
Are you honestly that dense? That's like asking if CD drives are used for anything other than CDs.
I'm sorry, but what else are CD drives used for? If it's used for DVDs, Blue-ray disks, or anything else, it's not a CD drive, it's a DVD drive, Blue-ray disk drive, or something by some other name, such as "combo drive." CD stands for "Compact Disk" which is not music specific. Unless you're talking about using it as a cupholder....
Okay, yea, I'm totally uninformed with football. The season doesn't start til Sept so they didn't end the streak yet. I'm going to stop posting about sports I don't watch now.
Slashdot Mirror
/. uses FTP for posting. Someone hacked in and modified the time limit.
I wholeheartedly agree with you and disagree with your father's viewpoint. I am sorry you had to grow up with that. No one deserves to have beliefs forced onto them. And for a Christian to do it is very hypocritical and against what is written in the Bible. It's one thing to speak to someone about your beliefs, and an entirely different thing to force them onto others.
I say including Atheism because it is still based on faith. To accept without proof that there is no god is the same as to have faith that there is no god. Because faith is "belief that is not based on proof."
Okay, I admit to the flaw in my logic (bandwagon). Flaws in logic are bound to happen when discussing an unprovable subject. :) But there are other things that support my point as well, like manuscripts such as the one mentioned in this article as well as many other things. But I don't claim to be an expert on the subject. Thanks for the interesting discussion. I always love intellectual conversation when the other person is not attacking you personally. It always helps to challenge me to think and research more deeply about what I believe.
There's a difference between worship and martyrdom though. I see no mention of death, martyrdom, or anything of the sort in that article. I can worship or idolize a celebrity, but would I die for one? No way!
I wasn't "proving" my point. I just said it was "highly unlikely." If I could prove that Christianity were true, we wouldn't be having this argument, just as if anyone could prove any other religion (including atheism) were true. And neither the Jewish faith (which Christianity is based off of, they just don't believe that Jesus was the Messiah they sre waiting for) nor the Muslim faith was started by people dying for said faith.
I'm not saying it's true that Jesus was resurrected just because a lot of people believe it. I'm just saying that it's highly unlikely that they were nut-job crazy because I can't think of any other time that a group of crazy people accomplished what they have accomplished. You have to admit that it would be pretty impressive for a bunch of nut jobs to make up a lie that, after 2000 years, there would still be no undeniable proof that they had lied. A bunch of geniuses, maybe, but a bunch of nut jobs?
I'll just refer you to this post.
Well put!
They claimed that he had risen from the dead and that they had seen him. That's not "thinking that Jesus is right" and it's not faith because it's a first hand account.
But if they were nut-job crazy, how would they be so successful? How would their beliefs spread around the world and millions and millions of people would believe them even 2,000 years later? And yes, I believe people go to their grave all the time hiding the truth. What I'm saying is that it is not likely that someone would allow themselves to be killed still professing that a lie is true, with nothing to gain from said lie.
I don't see any mention of a later resurrection in that article. When was the resurrection and who was resurrected? Were the people who died in that article directly involved in starting the lies about that resurrection?
Except that they actually believed what they died for was true. As I said in reply to another post, those first few that died defending Christianity would have known that it were a lie if it were one as it would have been their lie. They would have to have said that Jesus was resurrected and that they saw him and then died knowing that what they said was false.
Except that, again, suicide bombers could actually believe that the "afterlife glory" is true, while if Jesus' resurrection were false, they would have known that it were a lie, as it would have been their lie.
Why would any of the followers of Islam fly to their deaths or blow themselves up if their religion was a lie?
Because they genuinely believe that what they are dying for is true. The disciples (all but one of which died a martyr's death) all would have KNOWN that what they were dying for were a lie if Jesus had not really risen from the dead.
Why would Christian American soldiers be ready to die for God and country (and oil) if it was a lie?
I'm not sure what you're referring to as the lie here, but if it's "Christianity," the same logic applies here.
Why do all the people in insane asylums believe they are Napoleon or Jesus if it's JUST A LIE?!
Again, they don't KNOW that it's a lie, they believe it's true. And this is irrelevant because they aren't DYING for the lie.
I don't think you get the GP's point. The people he is referring to WILLINGLY died supporting that Jesus died and was resurrected. If that were a lie (and they of all people would have known it was a lie), would they have sacrificed their OWN lives?
I also don't know of a case in which properly-used bold text doesn't imply a "strong" voice
A page/chapter/section/post header? The "Post Anonymously" label?
Except that a snowcat is actually useful somewhere...
Except that it makes it an excessively large file. If you need a PDF, save it as a PDF. If you need it as ODF, save it as ODF. If you need both, save it as BOTH. I don't want to have to keep an oversized file around for "compatibility." If that was the way to do it, why not have it formatted in XML, HTML, and plain ASCII text too?
issued in 1996 and 1998 respectively. (17 year expirations in 2013 and 2017, respectively.
Math check...
Are you honestly that dense? That's like asking if CD drives are used for anything other than CDs.
I'm sorry, but what else are CD drives used for? If it's used for DVDs, Blue-ray disks, or anything else, it's not a CD drive, it's a DVD drive, Blue-ray disk drive, or something by some other name, such as "combo drive." CD stands for "Compact Disk" which is not music specific. Unless you're talking about using it as a cupholder....
My dad was a truck driver and 50,000 is very modest. Try in the hundreds of thousands.
No, it is occasionally lupus. But it's never sarcoidosis. That's the one that ALWAYS comes up.
... observed the behavior of hundreds of people in three nightclubs across the city where they intentionally addressed 176 people ...
A contradiction in a single sentence... didn't even have to read the whole article to know this is bunk.
Okay, yea, I'm totally uninformed with football. The season doesn't start til Sept so they didn't end the streak yet. I'm going to stop posting about sports I don't watch now.