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British Library Puts Oldest Surviving Bible Online
Peace Corps Library writes "BBC reports that about 800 pages of the earliest surviving Christian Bible, the 1,600-year-old Codex Sinaiticus manuscript, have been recovered and put on the Internet. 'The Codex Sinaiticus is one of the world's greatest written treasures,' says Dr. Scot McKendrick, head of Western manuscripts at the British Library. 'This 1,600-year-old manuscript offers a window into the development of early Christianity and first-hand evidence of how the text of the Bible was transmitted from generation to generation.' The New Testament of the Codex Sinaiticus appears in Koine Greek, the original vernacular language, and the Old Testament in the version, known as the Septuagint, that was adopted by early Greek-speaking Christians. For 1,500 years, the Codex Sinaiticus lay undisturbed in a Sinai monastery until it was found in 1844 and split between Egypt, Russia, Germany, and Britain. It is thought to have survived because the desert air was ideal for preservation and because the monastery, on a Christian island in a Muslim sea, remained untouched, its walls unconquered. The British Library is marking the online launch of the manuscript with an exhibition which includes a range of historic items and artifacts linked to the document. 'The availability of the virtual manuscript for study by scholars around the world creates opportunities for collaborative research that would not have been possible just a few years ago.'"
But is it wiki'd so that people can make corrections to it?
1 In the begining was the psot. And it was frist.
2 And yea, I faileth it.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
I'm really interested to see what different translators come up with. Now that it's been made available, there is going to be a wonderful opportunity to compare translations and interpretations from a much more 'original' source.
Though, I have this nagging feeling that "And it was Good" might also be interpreted as "Sorry for the inconvenience."
Out of modpoints but really liked a post? 1BDkF6TtmmeZ3yqXbz9yhdYVqRYnwFoXDj
Well, unlike most regular books that are uploaded, having this one accessible on the net 'creates opportunities for collaborative research that would not have been possible just a few years ago.'
Honestly, I remember reading some /. article a few years back about this coming online back in '05 (?) and being very disappointed it wasn't there yet.
Of course, it would help if I read Koine Greek...
The Kai's Semi-Updated Website Thingy
..... and the old priest looked at the original copy, and came out crying.
When asked why, he looked at the young novice and said "the word is CELEBRATE not CELIBATE"
Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos
a good use for technology instead of just another way to twitter/facebook/blog what you had for lunch.
1600 years old, from earlier manuscripts that pre-date Constantine's adoption of Christianity as a state religion.
It has no mention of a resurrection.
For example, St Mark's Gospel ends 12 verses before later, revised, versions - omitting the appearance of the resurrected Jesus Christ.
The incorporation of Osiris/Attys/Adonis/Mithras cultism, which dominated the eastern empire with it's symbolic resurrection theology was key to the success of Constantine's venture. It was so deeply held a belief, the bishops under Constantine may not even have realized they were fabricating and innovating.
"Speaking the Truth in times of universal deceit is a revolutionary act." -- George Orwell
Disney? Is that you?
I always wondered what the Greek word for "sodomy" was..
Jesus Christ!
The way this manuscript is being spun is as if this document supersedes individual manuscripts (basically all the books in the bible) that date from the first, second and third centuries for the NT and many from the OT that date as far back as the fourth century BCE. What's up with that?
Sinaiticus is arguably one of the most important discoveries in the history of the textual transmission of the New Testament. Add an exciting controversy involving either idiot Greek monks who had quite literally dumped it in the wastepaper bin or a conniving Russian manuscript hunter-turned-thief making up lies to cover his crimes and you've got a great story that never fails to turn up fundraising dollars.
That said, I wish they could produce software for the examination of the codex that doesn't suck. But because they refuse to release the database of manuscript photos for public download (even though, at least in the United States, those images are uncopyrightable and therefore in the public domain) enterprising folks like me can't build a better system and give it away to people. So you have to suffer with their terrible system if you want to examine the manuscript. It's typical conservator behavior, building unnecessary walls against access to information that should be free.
We really really need to start making sure that digital copies of the ancient literary patrimony are available for free with no conditions -- i.e., in the public domain, but apparently everyone is too interested in fighting for scarce research grant dollars to produce something that all of their academic competitors could use.
How do you calculate "life of author" if the author exists outside of time? Should we just assume that the clock starts ticking in 1882?
All these revisions ought to successfully reveal the "literal word of God" to be a pile of horsecrap. The "literal word of God" was decided by many committees of fallible men many times over that originated from unoriginal tall tales passed down by oral tradition for thousands of years.
This work should be helpful in the translation issues that some scholars and theologians have faced, or worse, perpetuate.
IMO, the most difficult problems in Bible translations is (1) bias based on a reader's idea of what things say and (2) literallist POVs that don't consider that idiom and metaphors in the text shouldn't be taken (ahem) as gospel. One example from a Catholic apologist is the modern statement "it's raining cats and dogs." We today know that means "it's raining very heavily." Write that down in a book, bury it for 2,000 years. What would people then think that phrase means. A literalist will honestly think that cats and dogs fell from the sky. A person skilled not only in translation but in the culture of the time knows it to be a figure of speech--and will NOT change the wording despite that understanding.
And that, in an oversimplified example, is why humankind went from one Christian church to over 23,000. It's become a matter of bad translation and/or interpretation.
Vos teneo officium eram periculosus ut vos recipero is.
Contrast this book with the Holy Koran, which has not changed one iota since it was written, and is still readable in its original language. When the Holy Koran says something, it *means* it. "As for the man who steals and the woman who steals, cut off their hands as punishment for what they have earned, an exemplary punishment from God" is a real command from the real God who really exists (yes it's a translation into English, now get all po-mo on it). Other holy books go through revisions, get translated, have pages lost, etc etc - they can hardly be called the True Word of God at all. Mock all you want, this is deadly serious business to millions of people who share the world you live in. It is one more reason why the true followers of God look down on all other competing theologies.
Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
Took em long enough.
Can we now finally come to the conclusion religion is not all bad?
Can we now acknowledge some people need belief to help them in hard times? Or just give them direction or purpose?
Can we agree belief is not easily swept aside?
Can we believe that maybe there is a greater power out there?
If we can hopefully those ****ers can understand to value human life? And not fight wars in the name of The One, The True or whatever name is "hip" now. All religions in their purest from teach human live is precious and needs to be respected. ****ing act like it.
Yes I'm looking at you Iran, Israel, Europe, US and every other god-damn place. Just agree to disagree already. there are much more important issues that need solving.
You seem to have confused the author with one of the protagonists.
"Welcome to our world. We are the wasted youth. And we are the future too." Yes, I know these are stupid lyrics.
From the images they have of the document, it gives "its all Greek to me" a whole new meaning, and it prompts important questions, spiritally meaningful questions, like: What year did we invent the spacebar anyhow?
stuff |
1. Author: God
2. Lifespan: Eternal
3. Copyright: Eternity + 50 years
4. ???
5. Profit!
That colaborative research cant be done in the US.
There is no record of many of the authors dying so the work may still be copyrighted for the next 70+ years.
On a side note.. as there is no mention of the resurection in this bible.. so it cant be used as prior art to prove all the
zombie films & games coming out recently are all unoriginal drivel.
One of the more interesting aspects is the Biblical canon. It includes several books in modern Catholic Bibles but not Protestant Bibles. And several books not in either!
http://www.codex-sinaiticus.net/en/codex/content.aspx
The New Testament of the Codex Sinaiticus appears in Koine Greek, the original vernacular language, and the Old Testament in the version, known as the Septuagint, that was adopted by early Greek-speaking Christians.
I just hope they aren't using Recaptcha to digitize the text....My Koine Greek is a little rusty, and I'd like to be able to join forums..
This is excellent news.
I've always wondered what bullshit smells like when it's fresh from the anus.
Just copy and paste the whole thing into bablefish and click translate.
If I were God, wouldn't I protect my churches from acts of me?
Unconfirmed reports suggest that a half-japanese, half-english woman is making tremendous speed towards the British Library right now, and other reports further suggest this woman's sole interest is this bible.
Her appearance was given as short, well-built, blue-eyed, long shaggy unkempt black hair, rather mannish-looking squarish glasses, and an ability to manipulate paper in remarkable ways.
If spotted ring up the Paper Sisters Detective Co.
The "Civilized World" jumped the shark ca. 1973.
If you look into 1 Timothy, chapter 3 -
"2: A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
3: Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
4: One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
5: (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)"
you will see that it was not the intention of the church founders that priests should be celibate.
Unless I am totally high, I remember the CNN article to have wording almost identical to this source when orginally posted:
http://www.bilalaliproductions.com/religion/oldest-known-bible-goes-online/
Correct me if I am wrong (or hell this is /. correct me in any case) but I wonder if it hit too close to home to most of thier US audience. It will be nice when people are able to get all of this messy business of imperfect copying and editing proceedures mucking up the details. Not being a scholar, I was a bit suprised to find most (if not all) of the resection references to be missing. But I am sure a small detail like that won't shake anyones faith in what is real...
You also need to understand the world view of the people who were writing it. Understanding NT Greek is a lot more than just a reading knowledge. It's the "lifetime study" category of things, which is why this document is of very little use to so many people. (And no, I know just enough to have an idea of the sheer amount I don't know.) It's a bit like putting the data from the LHC on line for anybody to look at; very few if any people who don't currently have access will be able to draw any meaningful conclusions from it.
From scarped cliff or quarried stone she cries "A thousand types are gone, I care for nothing, no not one."
...he'd rather just kill you for daring to question his religion.
mu
The apostles didn't live outside of time, and neither did the man they wrote about.
Free Martian Whores!
A translation can't be trusted, now can it.
There is some controversy about that. The copyright on the Bible could expire in a few decades.
I'll wait for the Ron Howard movie, tks.
Remember, there's a big difference between kneeling down and bending over...
"Kill 'em all and let Root sort 'em out"
Is it out of copyright?
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
I would think that the Bono Act would have ensured that this work was still under copyright.
"I guess the moral of the story is, don't paint your airship with rocket fuel." -- Addison Bain
scholars have discovered that this bible bleeds when it rains
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
I dont know exactly what that means, but I think /. just got cussed out in Aramathean, which was translated to German, via .net.
There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order- Ed Howdershelt Via Tass
"It is thought to have survived because the desert air was ideal for preservation and because the monastery, on a Christian island in a Muslim sea, remained untouched, its walls unconquered."
Wow... What about that Muslims in the past were often quite accepting of Christians and Jews -- yes, all 3 of these faiths fought each other too, but many tolerated each other as well...
My king James version is more accurate
1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
2 And the earth was waste and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep: and the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
3 And God said, "First Post!".
It has been removed, or else was omitted for reasons I only guess are related to the difficulty with which the divine name is translated. Still, Psalms 83:18, Isiah 12:2, 26:4, and 42:8 are all not available for translation. But 1 Corinthians 8:5, 6 are still available which establishes the words translated as "god" and "lord" as titles, and not names as they are often used in many translations. God's name is Jehovah and his son Jesus Christ is the Lord.
I can't read either form of archaic Greek, you insensitive clod!
So are YOU when it to Zeus, Ra, Mithra, Cuthulu, Ares, Gan, and too many other to list. See the List_of_gods for more silly names.
Science is the Real TRUTH!
12 And we urge you, brethren, to recognize those who labor among you, and are over you in the Lord and admonish you, 13 and to esteem them very highly in love for their work's sake. Be at peace among yourselves. 14 Now we exhort you, brethren, warn those who are unruly, comfort the fainthearted, uphold the weak, be patient with all. 15 See that no one renders evil for evil to anyone, but always pursue what is good both for yourselves and for all. 16 Rejoice always, 17 pray without ceasing, 18 in everything give thanks; for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus for you. 19 Do not quench the Spirit. 20 Do not despise prophecies. 21 Test all things; hold fast what is good. 22 Abstain from every form of evil.
You can't legislate morality... or intelligence.
Psalm 111:10 (New King James Version)
10 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom; A good understanding have all those who do His commandments. His praise endures forever.
I'm not anti-social, I'm anti-idiot.
But i thought god's laws were absolute and not subject to interpretation.. huh, go figure.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
The BBC is the last group of people I'd imagine would help such a cause. Let's not forget:
- "The GENIUS of Charles Darwin"
- "The God Who wasn't There"
- "The Secret Diary of a Call Girl" with everyone's favorite Dr Who girl, giving a blow-job on national TV.
These people have no visible motive for setting the records straight.
Then top it off with the neo-pagan-antichrist on this forum and....why?
Seriously: want to get modded down? Mention Christ. I do, it is. Whatever happened to that "Enlightened" and "Inclusive" culture we were promised with the liberals? They won't open the book- they feel uncomfortable with one in the ROOM!
Why does the BBC post it, and why would anyone thing Slashdot would care?
--- For a good time mail uce@ftc.gov
Museum Guide: "You are to turn off flashes on all cameras, video cameras, cell phones and any other electronics or you will be asked to turn it off and put it away"
Museum Guide: "once again no flashes, what did I say"
Crowd: "no flashes"
*flash goes off*
Museum Guide: Now I'm gonna have to ask you to turn it off and put it away; folks please once again, no flashes(for the 200th time that day (200x365=73,000 a year)
Unfortunately the article is confusing. It says that the account of the resurrection is missing from Mark. First, this manuscript isn't news. Recent translations either omit the missing section of Mark or flag it in some way. More seriously, what is missing is Jesus' appearances to some people after the resurrection. The resurrection itself is there.
Why does it seem that the old books chosen to be scanned are bibles? I mean fine, if yet another version of the same story floats your boat it's fun, but if I might put in a request from the rest of us: next time you want to scan an old book, choose something interesting: philosophy, early mathematics, alchemy, libels, botany... whatever, but please introduce some variety and *fun* into it.
There are a number of copies of the Bible from centuries before this (the ones found in the Dead Seas Scrolls being the most famous). This is simply the oldest Christian Bible. To word the headline as to imply that the oldest Christian Bible is necessarily the oldest Bible is downright offensive in its Christian myopia.
That's what they want you to think. You have access to the bits they allow you to s'~[]##' no carrier
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
Holy Ghost? Ohh I'm soooooo scared!
People believe lies all the time ... just look at Hitler in the last century, Reaganomics and "trickle down", Bush and his "mission accomplished" and "Iraq has WMDs", Obama re-implementing Raeganomic "trickle down" policy via bail-outs, ANYTHING coming out of Sarah Palin's mouth, OJ's innocence, MJ's innocence, "housing prices never go down", "Yes, I'll still love you in the morning and no, I won't come in your mouth, and the check is in the mail" ...
Paul did what he did because he wanted power and influence - better a big fish in a small pond - same as what motivates most religious leaders today ...
Codex Sinaiticus is a Gnostic corruption of the original text. It includes Gnostic books such as The Shepard of Hermas and Barnabas. There are *thousands* of differences in the text of this book and the Majority Text (Textus Receptus). The Majority Text is the text which virtually all copies of the Greek text outside of Alexandria share. There are thousands of copies of the Majority Text in part or whole. The Alexandrian manuscripts which are largely responsible for our modern translations (post KJV) are primarily Codex Sinaiticus and Vaticanus. These two copies are both from Alexandria (a big Gnosic area). These 2 texts do not agree well with each other, nor other copies of the text.
Codex Sinaiticus survived to such a great age because it was discarded in a trashcan. Valued texts were worn out (copying by hand made good texts too valuable to discard). These texts became popular in the modern era in the 1800s when Wescott and Hort used these to create a *new* Greek manuscript by combining Codex Sinaiticus, Vaticanus, and Textus Receptus. Wescott and Hort weren't exactly upstanding Christians to look to for spiritual advice. They founded the Ghostly Guild, an occult society with a very elite pagan membership.
Sadly, at this point, he failed to create anything with ears to hear, making his announcement just as silly and useless as it is now, 6000 years later.
The problem is, polls in the USA show a very large percentage of people believe every word in the bible is literally true. So if there are different versions of the bible, this causes problems. The original bible texts probably said "It is easier to get a rope through the eye of the needle than for a rich man to attain salvation". In the modern bible, the word rope has been changed to camel - which makes absolutely no sense, yet is still widely quoted. Small religious phrases have contributed to major rifts and even wars between Christians ("and the son..."). YES, to any sensible person these minor discrepancies mean little, but when you act like a Christian and throw all logic and reason out the door and start dealing with faith, divine authority and divine revelation, then these little phrases mean a lot. The parent is dealing with Christians on there own terms, and you seem not to understand this and are blaming the quite reasonable parent poster for the insanity of Christians.
Read Matthew chapter 27 and 28 from Codex Sinaiticus. These two chapters describe the account of Jesus' death and resurrection, and there is no omission from the Codex. Amen.
I once had a signature.
The announcement came out sounding much like "Let there be light.". Hence the Big Bang ;).
The BBC is the last group of people I'd imagine would help such a cause. Let's not forget:
What are you talking about? The BBC is merely reporting some news. What is your problem with that? Are you confusing the British Library with the BBC?
- "The GENIUS of Charles Darwin"
- "The God Who wasn't There"
- "The Secret Diary of a Call Girl" with everyone's favorite Dr Who girl, giving a blow-job on national TV.
Errr... unless I'm very much mistaken, "The Secret Diary of a Call Girl" was an ITV program, not from the BBC... not that it matters. FWIW, I only saw one episode, but it seemed ok to me.
> They should call it Paulism instead of Christianity.
I don't think Paul would like that, if you read what I've excerpted from the First Epistle of Paul the Apostle to the Corinthians, Chapter 1:
In case you're wondering, as best we know, Paul was beheaded with a sword.
Speaking of which, this wasn't actually written by me. I'm actually an impostor with the same name publishing a pseudepigraph. Obviously, I've never used the word sesquicentennial on Slashdot before, let alone vestigial or varmint, so the word frequency and vocabulary is all wrong, as astute scholars may eventually realize some thousands of years from now. Hopefully, this post will prove to be pivotal when they debate whether Slashdot should have been called Cowboy Neildot given that CmdrTaco was actually a minor figure in the whole rise of the Cult of Slashdot in Ancient America.
Ah, but now atheism is the fastest-growing belief, even in the U.S. of A. Look at the nut cases religion attracts - people like Sarah Palin, with her near-hysterical wide-eyed ignorance-is-bliss positions on all things.
If their god is so powerful, and prayer works, let them waste their breath praying me to death. At least it will keep some of those knuckle-draggers off the stree... NO_CARRIER.
Jesus - "I will survive".
Please.
You're using rather child-like logic there. "If X people DIED for what they believed, then OMG it must ALL be truth!"
By that logic, then every suicide bomber (of ANY religion) is proof their religion is true, and Charles Manson is a deity as well.
Nice how you still avoid the whole issue of Palin allowing an unwed daughter to fornicate in her home. Whatever happened to the admonishon to avoid even the appearance of evil? Doesn't apply to republicans with feet of clay? THAT is why we think fundies are stupid - they can't even see their own hypocrisy.
BTW - The King James Version is one of the least credible versions of the bible - it traces its' lineage through what are known as the Byzantine family of texts, which only go back to the 9th century.
You'd at least want something from the Alexandrian or Cesarean lineages, which go back much further - but of course they weren't rediscovered until well after the fools who place so much import on "Thee and Thou" vs. "You", failing to realize that it's no more significant than "vous" vs. "tu" en francais. Or going on about how some parts were written in all-caps, not realizing that lowercase didn't even exist at the time, and that it was all caps.
Then again, anyone who couldn't parse out the NT from the greek would just shut their pie-hole, since they'd get a fail anyway.
Unlike the bible, science allows us to construct a theory then test it by direct observation. We have a theory of evolution, it allows us to make predictions. Those predictions have been validated, so we have reason to believe in the theory of evolution. What predictions have people been able to make based on the bible have come true? None. The end of the world was supposed to happen in the first century AD. Then the 900s. Then in 2000. (and a whole bunch of intervening times). Those "end times" sure have stretched out a lot ...
Then again, what do you expect from a book that commands genocide, murder, slavery, rape, human sacrifice, and the worship of the "god" who commands all that. The bible is hate literature. Sane societies teach it as something to condemn, not worship. Within 100 years, it, and christianity in general, will be just a minor cult followed by the most impoverished, backwards societies.