I'd question the value of a single "idea" which could be so easily copied. Why should society let you coast on the artificial value of a single "idea" (especially if it's a concept so simple that other people could easily use it)?
I didn't say my "car supply" depended on a single idea...but on the premise that my work is protected by intellectual property law. If it is not then none of my work has to benefit me as it benefits others. It's not the single idea, it's the whole system. If there is no intellectual property right, then why do my customers need to pay me for my creations? I'd point out that the heart surgeon is providing a SERVICE, and is getting paid commensurate to the value of that service. In the context of intellectual property, a better example would be for someone to work out & document a better method for a particular kind of heart surgery, then expect all heart surgeons (or the hospitals or medical plan, whatever) to pay them money every time they use it. See, I told you I had a bad analogy. More than a service, intellectual property has value beyond a single use or function (generally). It has value on merit of its existence. The surgeon doesn't get paid merely because of his knowlegde, but because of putting his knowlegde into action. However, a creative work can benefit others merely by its existence (you don't need the programmers present to run MS Word) apart from its creator. The Dr. is happy to share the technique (for no one will put him out of business by "stealing" it - there are more than enough customers and not enough surgeons).
Regarding the hacker's ethic: it exists within a defined community of similarly-minded people. When the boundaries expanded the ruthless took advantage of the unexpecting (see Gates letter to the Homebrew Computer club and remember how much Gates, et al, benefited from other people's code). Where can such a community exist today where trust can prevail? I know of two places: those within the boundaries of a common goal and vision - such as a company. I share and borrow from my co-workers freely, without looking for "my edge" and keeping "my secrets" for personal advancement. The other, the GPL (and other Free/Open license) -based communities, where hackers are bound by a legal document, thus giving basis for openness and mutual trust.
Many IT workers are today driven by the goldrush after the initial boom. The science has attracted all sorts of people looking for treasure. However, you completely fail to see the real beauty in information technology and what we can learn from it.
My we're quick with our assumptions! When I was in college two things happened - first I chose to pursue my hobby (computers) through an Information Systems degree (honestly b/c of fear of math; my verbal SAT scores placed me in the top 95 percentile, but my math scores...yikes...).
The second was that I met my future "competition". While taking classes I realized that many students actually hated computers and programming, while I would breeze through programming assignments so I could get home and play with all the neat tools I could afford (thanks to the student discount, this was a lot!). I would stay up late installing Win NT, OS/2, Concurrent OS in different configurations (and this was before the official release of NT 3.1; I had access to bootleg betas, thanks to the university). I would play with Borland C++ Pro Dev, Texas Intruments IEF, VB 2/3, Access 1/2, xBase, FoxBase, PowerBuilder, etc. Many classmates hated their assignments and paid people to do their projects for them (future managers...but that's another story). One asked me, "Aren't you worried about the market becoming saturated with IS " [this was in the early 90's; IT wasn't in use yet]"people?" My answer: no; many are in it for the future payoff; I'm here because I'd be doing it regardless - I love it. They'll burn out.
When I first started with a computer (1979 on an Apple ][ belonging to my uncle and then 1980 with my own Apple ][+) I was in middle school. I played games till bored (how long can you play Lemonade Stand???) and started learning Applesoft Basic, Integer Basic, peeks and pokes...I wrote a graphic Christmas card to my family (to learn the graphic functions). In school we had an SWTPc UniFlex multiuser system. I loved learning the Unix-like CLI and revelled in writing utilities that tied various functions together for new students to use.... On and on.
Through all this I've picked up a love for the hacker ethic (thanks to Hackers: Heroes of the Computer Revolution), learning, sharing, benefiting others and being benefitted by others.
But I live in a society that rewards hard work, ingenuity, talent, skill, etc., with material goods. I have a family and don't want to have them suffer while I try to subsist on an artist's or philosopher's salary (i.e., nothing). But for my work as a system designer and application developer to be rewarded I have to assert my intellectual property rights (through my company) in order to be compensated for my creations. If not for these rights, then those who would benefit from my efforts would be able to use them without any recompense to me (through my company). That would mean I'd have to do something else to subsist - and the creative flow would slow down, if not stop.
And this last point goes towards you "benefiting society" comments. If the creative workers cannot benefit from their creations, then advances and innovations would slow down as system designers take time to dig those physical, wholesome ditches some people prefer to see as payable work. The last 200 years have had two novelties (1) an explosion of invention, innovation, and societial progress and (2) a strong system of intellectual property right codes and enforcement. Think about it.
What I don't understand is why people like you think that intellectual property ownership is the same thing as physical property ownership, and get just as fanatical over it as if someone had stolen a car from your driveway. There is no physical basis for "intellectual property".
Ah. Well, "people like me" view intellectual property ownership as perhaps more real than (my) car sitting in (my) driveway, because I have said real property through the excercise of my intellect and creativity. That's the 'basis' - I create, you benefit and pay, I buy things. You steal my car, I can buy another, but you take away my intellectual property rights and you've cut off my "car supply".
I'm a knowledge-worker. I've spent years getting the knowledge I have. It's kinda like the heart surgeon asked to justify the $100,000 fee for open heart surgery. His answer: "operating room, tools, support staff, billable time to operate - $10,000; knowing where to cut - $90,000." Bad analogy, but the point is knowing is worth a lot. If you take my intellectual property without my permission, a good case could be made that you are taking tangible assets from me.
IIRC, In the middle ages the church did not allow craftsmen to sell an item for more than the cost of the materials used in making the item. So, a mahagony dinner table would be cheap! Just the price of the lumber. No allowance for creativity adding value to the slab of wood. The real property is merely the materials, but the artistry and effort that transform the boards into beauty -- that's harder to substantiate. In today's world wealth advances through means of intellect.
(Just kidding. This is quite an accomplishment - gene therapy to restore sight. A little different, perhaps than clay made from spit and dust...but maybe...maybe the spit contained the good gene (His genes were good, we can assume) and the delivery mechanism was the dust...maybe it's Saturday and I need sleep...)
Downloading copyrighted material without permission of the owner is a CRIME. [... ]
Yes. So is driving faster than 65. What's your point?
Obviously the point is that Fordster and GMtella created this monster therefore it is their responsibility to fix it! If it wasn't for cars nobody would be speeding - send all traffic tickets to the enabling entity.
Scenario 1: Your mother hands you $20 in cash on your birthday.
Scenario 2: You see several rioters looting a store. One of them reaches into the cash register and hands you $20. The only differences between Scenario 1 and Scenario 2 are that the rioters in Scenario 2 didn't have a right to distribute the cash. To the person receiving the $20, the differences in how the cash was obtained are immaterial.:-)
Immaterial, huh? Ever heard of receivign stolen property? I consider 3-5 years in the poky mighty material...
I especially liked the part where he says private ownership belongs to the creators - yeah right.
I read this over and over again trying to understand the "yeah right" reaction. Finally, it hit me: you don't accept private ownership of creative property. At all. Wow. With that reasoning RMS does not have the "right" to enforce his GPL - afterall the GPL only carries weight if you grant RMS creative ownership rights.
The ThinkPads are running MS-DOS (they're 486 machines). The Register has a nice picture of one of the screens with a C:\>. That's the hook for monopoly reference. Note, I did not explicitly say "Windows". As to the cause of the problem...some people consider MS-DOS itself a problem...
NASA hasn't said what the problem machines are but all a strong body of evidence points to IBM Thinkpads featuring older Intel processors, when the project began around two years ago these machines used 486 chips.
Back in February we obtained exclusive pictures on a crashed IBM Thinkpad on board the space station. Subsequent emails from our readers revealed these machines were involved in far more than playing space invaders. It seems the laptops were running most of the main functions on board the station, including the communications functions that have failed.
Also see this link for more confirmation that ISS depends on MS products (whether DOS or Windows) for more than Leisure Suit Larry...
Let's get this straight: a space station built with with international cooperation has a computer error threatening to cut off communication with earth-based command-control? The computer is an IBM Thinkpad? The year is 2001?
That's a space oddyssey, er, oddity.
Open the pod-bay doors, HAL.
I'm sorry, Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that
And the software in question is provided by a huge monolith^H^H^H^Hpoly...
Congratulations, you have violated ehd spirit of the law but not the letter. That doesn't make you a moral person.
And immoral behavior is not acceptable because the victim is a corporation.
One, I don't follow your logic. He said "I lose more than $50 if I take a day off." That's true whether you make $51 a day or $5000 a day. I think what he's trying to say is it's not worth the time off from work to win $50 in court.
If someone said, "The stock market jumped 400 points today...if my scale did that I'd be more than twice as big as I am now," I'd assume they were closer to 400 lbs than to a svelte 125 lbs. Just because of the comparison.
When an ad proclaims, "Available now for less than $50!", you can bet the price is closer to $49.99 than to $.10. Just because of the comparison, even though both amounts would be valid, computationally.
Besides. I was attempting humor. I didn't really think the poster made $6.24/hr (just less than $50/8hrs).
And, no I don't make anywhere's near $50/hr - especially if you count unpaid overtime for this salaried slave, er, employee. And I'm private sector, too.
Why not make a press release about the recent upheavals in ArsDigita not affecting your business or customers? Drop hints that you know something on the inside about Philip Greenspun's departure. You'll tap into the powerful need of people to learn insider gossip and believe conspiracy theories. You're name will be mentioned whenever the story is told.
BTW, what did happen over at ArsDigita?
Good question, if off-topic - what happened at ArsDigita?
And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters;
Ans SuSE comes ready for blind users - detects special hardware on install. I haven't tested these options, just noticed them when loading SuSE 7.0 and 7.1.
Actually, I'd like to find a printer for Braille - I have a friend who is blind and I read material to him onto tapes that he painstakingly transcribes into braille. If I could just print it out, that'd help both of us. But, those printer I found searching about a year ago were just too expensive.
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I didn't say my "car supply" depended on a single idea...but on the premise that my work is protected by intellectual property law. If it is not then none of my work has to benefit me as it benefits others. It's not the single idea, it's the whole system. If there is no intellectual property right, then why do my customers need to pay me for my creations? I'd point out that the heart surgeon is providing a SERVICE, and is getting paid commensurate to the value of that service. In the context of intellectual property, a better example would be for someone to work out & document a better method for a particular kind of heart surgery, then expect all heart surgeons (or the hospitals or medical plan, whatever) to pay them money every time they use it. See, I told you I had a bad analogy. More than a service, intellectual property has value beyond a single use or function (generally). It has value on merit of its existence. The surgeon doesn't get paid merely because of his knowlegde, but because of putting his knowlegde into action. However, a creative work can benefit others merely by its existence (you don't need the programmers present to run MS Word) apart from its creator. The Dr. is happy to share the technique (for no one will put him out of business by "stealing" it - there are more than enough customers and not enough surgeons).
Regarding the hacker's ethic: it exists within a defined community of similarly-minded people. When the boundaries expanded the ruthless took advantage of the unexpecting (see Gates letter to the Homebrew Computer club and remember how much Gates, et al, benefited from other people's code). Where can such a community exist today where trust can prevail? I know of two places: those within the boundaries of a common goal and vision - such as a company. I share and borrow from my co-workers freely, without looking for "my edge" and keeping "my secrets" for personal advancement. The other, the GPL (and other Free/Open license) -based communities, where hackers are bound by a legal document, thus giving basis for openness and mutual trust.
My we're quick with our assumptions! When I was in college two things happened - first I chose to pursue my hobby (computers) through an Information Systems degree (honestly b/c of fear of math; my verbal SAT scores placed me in the top 95 percentile, but my math scores...yikes...).
The second was that I met my future "competition". While taking classes I realized that many students actually hated computers and programming, while I would breeze through programming assignments so I could get home and play with all the neat tools I could afford (thanks to the student discount, this was a lot!). I would stay up late installing Win NT, OS/2, Concurrent OS in different configurations (and this was before the official release of NT 3.1; I had access to bootleg betas, thanks to the university). I would play with Borland C++ Pro Dev, Texas Intruments IEF, VB 2/3, Access 1/2, xBase, FoxBase, PowerBuilder, etc. Many classmates hated their assignments and paid people to do their projects for them (future managers...but that's another story). One asked me, "Aren't you worried about the market becoming saturated with IS " [this was in the early 90's; IT wasn't in use yet]"people?" My answer: no; many are in it for the future payoff; I'm here because I'd be doing it regardless - I love it. They'll burn out.
When I first started with a computer (1979 on an Apple ][ belonging to my uncle and then 1980 with my own Apple ][+) I was in middle school. I played games till bored (how long can you play Lemonade Stand???) and started learning Applesoft Basic, Integer Basic, peeks and pokes...I wrote a graphic Christmas card to my family (to learn the graphic functions). In school we had an SWTPc UniFlex multiuser system. I loved learning the Unix-like CLI and revelled in writing utilities that tied various functions together for new students to use. ... On and on.
Through all this I've picked up a love for the hacker ethic (thanks to Hackers: Heroes of the Computer Revolution), learning, sharing, benefiting others and being benefitted by others.
But I live in a society that rewards hard work, ingenuity, talent, skill, etc., with material goods. I have a family and don't want to have them suffer while I try to subsist on an artist's or philosopher's salary (i.e., nothing). But for my work as a system designer and application developer to be rewarded I have to assert my intellectual property rights (through my company) in order to be compensated for my creations. If not for these rights, then those who would benefit from my efforts would be able to use them without any recompense to me (through my company). That would mean I'd have to do something else to subsist - and the creative flow would slow down, if not stop.
And this last point goes towards you "benefiting society" comments. If the creative workers cannot benefit from their creations, then advances and innovations would slow down as system designers take time to dig those physical, wholesome ditches some people prefer to see as payable work. The last 200 years have had two novelties (1) an explosion of invention, innovation, and societial progress and (2) a strong system of intellectual property right codes and enforcement. Think about it.
Ah. Well, "people like me" view intellectual property ownership as perhaps more real than (my) car sitting in (my) driveway, because I have said real property through the excercise of my intellect and creativity. That's the 'basis' - I create, you benefit and pay, I buy things. You steal my car, I can buy another, but you take away my intellectual property rights and you've cut off my "car supply".
I'm a knowledge-worker. I've spent years getting the knowledge I have. It's kinda like the heart surgeon asked to justify the $100,000 fee for open heart surgery. His answer: "operating room, tools, support staff, billable time to operate - $10,000; knowing where to cut - $90,000." Bad analogy, but the point is knowing is worth a lot. If you take my intellectual property without my permission, a good case could be made that you are taking tangible assets from me.
IIRC, In the middle ages the church did not allow craftsmen to sell an item for more than the cost of the materials used in making the item. So, a mahagony dinner table would be cheap! Just the price of the lumber. No allowance for creativity adding value to the slab of wood. The real property is merely the materials, but the artistry and effort that transform the boards into beauty -- that's harder to substantiate. In today's world wealth advances through means of intellect.
(Just kidding. This is quite an accomplishment - gene therapy to restore sight. A little different, perhaps than clay made from spit and dust...but maybe...maybe the spit contained the good gene (His genes were good, we can assume) and the delivery mechanism was the dust...maybe it's Saturday and I need sleep...)
Having just watched the DVD of 2001, this is extremely funny...
I read this over and over again trying to understand the "yeah right" reaction. Finally, it hit me: you don't accept private ownership of creative property. At all. Wow. With that reasoning RMS does not have the "right" to enforce his GPL - afterall the GPL only carries weight if you grant RMS creative ownership rights.
Never thought of that before. Good point.
The ThinkPads are running MS-DOS (they're 486 machines). The Register has a nice picture of one of the screens with a C:\>. That's the hook for monopoly reference. Note, I did not explicitly say "Windows". As to the cause of the problem...some people consider MS-DOS itself a problem...
In space, no one can hear you reboot...
That's a space oddyssey, er, oddity.
And the software in question is provided by a huge monolith^H^H^H^Hpoly...When an ad proclaims, "Available now for less than $50!", you can bet the price is closer to $49.99 than to $.10. Just because of the comparison, even though both amounts would be valid, computationally.
Besides. I was attempting humor. I didn't really think the poster made $6.24/hr (just less than $50/8hrs).
And, no I don't make anywhere's near $50/hr - especially if you count unpaid overtime for this salaried slave, er, employee. And I'm private sector, too.
- You're a student (High School)
- You're an India-based programmer (how's Whistler coming along?)
- You're WebVan's new CEO
Most of us would lose $50 for taking off 1/8th of our day...Selling Porn: As long as it's hidden, it's not an issue. But, under scrutiny, it's indefensible. No surprise here.
Really? My Toshiba 2805 is meant to (by me, not Toshiba) and usually does run 24*7*365.250001...
Give me more to go on! You wrote the input and output routines but expected me to infer the processing! ;-)
Actually, I'd like to find a printer for Braille - I have a friend who is blind and I read material to him onto tapes that he painstakingly transcribes into braille. If I could just print it out, that'd help both of us. But, those printer I found searching about a year ago were just too expensive.