Once you get your foot in the door on the technical side you might be able to move toward programming if you bust your hump. For years. Largely without recognition. Be prepared, not just to prove yourself, but to prove your self over and over until someone actually notices. And then to that again until someone who is willing to take a chance on you notices.
I cannot stress this enough. The original poster would actually achieve entry-level programmer status FASTER if they went back to school for a relevant degree. Getting to the point of actually programming at anything other than the smallest shops would take such a significant amount of time, that you have to wonder if there would be any benefit at all to making the career change.
This is too true. I do think this is the product of hiring people because they know a specific technology, instead of having a strong underpinning of technical knowledge. The "Give a man a fish and feed him for a day, teach a man to fish and feed him for his life" certainly applies here. Learning just a language syntax feeds you for a day, and companies don't want that. If the person was a fisherman though, they could catch any kind of fish. A foundation in the basics of technology should be favored over knowing any one technology.
I can tell you that without a formal training in the field I wouldn't even bring you in for an interview.
Programming is more than just knowing a language. The other things you learn when obtaining a CS degree help you be a better programmer that doesn't require a lot of hand holding.
AMEN! I agree 100%. The boom times of the late 90s are very long gone. Employers are VERY discriminating today. They don't just want a person who knows a language syntax, they want someone who knows software, and that involves skills FAR beyond language syntax.
I think the original poster will have a very difficult time, if not impossible time, getting into the field in anything other than the lowest, least skilled position (with commensurate pay). Just knowing C++ is not enough to break into the field in a few months. I have been doing development for years, and when I start to look for a new job it takes me a few months just to brush up on all the things I already know that are asked in interviews. He/She would be coming into the field with the same experience and less relevant skills than a new graduate, but most likely expecting a higher salary. That would be a large strike against them in the marketplace. Even if he had great business acumen, his stated desire for a tech job specifically requires a strong tech background, and we all know that learning a companies product is much easier than creating the foundation required for a good technical understanding of the field. If the original poster was willing to spend more than a few months in order to break into the industry, they may have a chance, but I don't see any way to accomplish that goal in just a few months of learning. I also don't think that Open Source contribution would be in any way valuable for the individual. Open Source projects don't just want "anyone who wants to code". The vast majority of these projects are run by very highly skilled people with years of experience. The only way to really get experience is to be hired and work in a business setting developing software. Just writing code is NOT experience. My best advice for the original poster is don't try to do this in a few months. Go take out school loans and get a degree in the area. That would be the absolute fastest way to get a mid level or higher job in programming. Otherwise they will spend way more time "climbing the ranks" out of the helpdesk or other low level job they are most likely to get. There really is no shortcut in gaining knowledge and experience. Both are a product of time and effort. Attempts to circumvent that RARELY work.
Programming can be very hard to transfer into, given the demand for experience and specific knowledge in the field (the US Dept of Labor sites this as one of the reasons less people enter into the field over others for second jobs). It would be almost impossible for you to get into anything other than an entry level support job (think helpdesk). Getting a job as a full developer will be a very difficult proposition. You might be able to get a job doing some "simple" development in a small shop though (think perl, php, that kind of stuff). Compare yourself to a college grad with a degree in Comp Sci (or similar degree) - graduates in this years class are seeing a very tough job market, even though software engineering is comparably untouched by the ongoing depression. These grads would have a level of experience similar to yours, but most likely be willing to work for less, and have been formally trained in the field. My suggestion would be to spend a significant amount of time learning the field, not just a language syntax. Go to a college website, see the books that are used for the classes, and start in on them. There is MUCH MUCH more to programming that just knowing a language syntax.
I was going to say the same thing. It would seem to me that those that fear death the most are the most ardent believers in an afterlife (which religion offers), and thus also most likely to pursue excessive EOL care.
First of all, I am very much in favor of the Second Amendment. Where I live in Illinois, you have to have passed a background check and received a FOID (Firearm Owners ID), before you can even legally TOUCH a gun. And I have to say, I would have no issue at all if in the process of getting a FOID, you had to pass a safety class and test. For people born after 1986 in Illinois, they must pass a hunter safety course before they can have a hunting license. Even though I own lots of guns of every type, I would have no reservation of requiring the same type of class and test for gun ownership.
Java and.Net are not going anywhere in the near, or even intermediate, future. C++ is also fairly strong. Choose any area, rather than a language, to learn about. Distributed computing is very big for very large systems (stock exchanges, banks, etc) and is mainly dominated by Java. If you like desktop apps,.Net is the clear leader. If you like OS or embedded programming, C++ is your choice (just be aware that the pool of jobs for OS and embedded programming is pretty small compared to the others). Or look at a place you want to live (Chicago, New York, etc), and check the jobs in those areas, that will give you an idea of what to look for since certain industries tend to group together (e.g. Chicago and New York are very large financial hubs, so distributed computing is big in those cities).
So, first of all, you have already put yourself into a group that most likely does NOT fall into the students described in the original post because you have interest in proving yourself, rather than just getting rewards. In that respect, if you keep in mind that it takes hard work to get bonuses and perks, etc in the real world, you are way ahead. In terms of skills - really nail your classwork. Think of a BS as the foundation of a house. It is not glamorous, but if laid well, you will have no problem building the rest of the house which can be as fancy as you want it. If you are looking to add to areas you don't cover in school (say over the summer), try to get internships that have you actually work with development groups (or whatever area you are interested in, like sys admin stuff). If you can't get an internship, then decide on some area you find interesting (distributed computing, OS, web, etc) and just learn as much as you can. Or pick up some framework you don't see in school (Spring, EJB,.NET, etc) and get familiar with it. Be aware though - there is NO ONE MAGIC TECHNOLOGY. JAVA,.NET, Linux, etc, they are all just TOOLS. If you learn the basics of why things work the way they do, you can pick up any and all of this later. Tech changes in the marketplace, you cannot pick "the one perfect tech". When I started there was pretty much just C/C++. Along the way I learned all the other languages and went back to school for a masters degree in Software Engineering. Almost all companies do not expect college grads to know everything under the sun, they are like pro football scouts - they look for raw talent. Just keep an attitude that is helpful and inquisitive, always work to improve yourself, and actually enjoy your work, bust your ass and you will do better than the majority.
Your post here, as well as your listing of experience, only proves that you are exactly the example narcissist for the article. "advanced VB"? Are you kidding? Is this like "advanced dirt eating" or "advanced mud pie making"?
Too true. I don't think the whipper-snappers realize that business travel is for business, not pleasure. The times I have flown overseas, the work is so non-stop because of the expense of doing going overseas, that all I want to do is get the hell out of there and go home so I can get some sleep.
This is a massive and ridiculous invasion of privacy by the State of NJ. I cannot imagine in any way the government having the right to ban what a person does to their body, especially about something as trivial as a bikini wax.
With the very low cost of storage nowadays, I would not bother reusing or donating the drives. Take out the platters of the HDD, or the whole USB key, and go smashy smashy with a hammer. Collect the pieces and take it to a electronics recycling center. One nice side effect, is the smashy smashy bit is a great stress reliever, just wear safety glasses and perhaps gloves.
Giving a kid a "time-out" is totally acceptable. However, the use of the "time-out room" raises some concerns. There is not enough info in the news story, but some schools have a time-out room that would be appropriate only in a setting like a supermax prison. Here is a CNN article on what some of these rooms can be like: http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/12/17/seclusion.rooms/index.html. Now I am not saying that is what this kid was in, but there is not enough info in the story to say one way or another. If MY kid was put into a cell like the one in the CNN story, I not only would sue in civil court, but I would also pursue criminal charges. However, if my kid was told to stand in a corner for a time-out, I would have NO issue with it.
This is a VERY illegal practice. I recommend going head on against this and do the following: 1) Retain copies of your performance reviews. 2) Contact HR 3) Quit immediately.
I think it is very important to quit ASAP, because if they have it in for you, they can come up with all kinds of nasty stuff in the next few weeks to "confirm" a poor standing upon leaving. You might also think of contacting an attorney, and have that attorney bring this to the legal department of the company. While your manager (or whomever the threatening party is) may think playing like this is ok, very few attorneys would allow the company to expose itself like this.
Glue traps are the absolute worst! Anyone here ever think of what happens? The mouse gets stuck on the trap until it dies from starvation or dehydration. Plan old spring loaded mouse traps work great, and kill it instantly.
Although, have a sick story on the glue traps. 20 years ago in HS, working at McDs, I had a cheap manager and a lot of mice. He bought glue traps, and wanted to "reuse" them. By reuse, he thought he could just pull the mouse off the trap. We, he is pulling on that tail, and that mouse is squeaking like hell, and he pulled so hard he pulled the damn spine out of the mouse. The was a quick end to the glue traps and the real exterminators came in the next day.
This is very true. I have seen cats get the dry heaves when they see a dead mouse. I have never had a cat that was a mouser (read that as my female companion never had a cat...). Which pretty much means the cats did nothing useful, other that fill a plastic tray with shit and piss and get hair all over.
You can get this at any hardware or garden store. Basically it is just a spray bottle full of capsaicin, which is what gives chili peppers their kick. It is commonly sold as rabbit or deer repellent sprays. Aviaries, which have huge rodent problems, will mix hot pepper powder in with bird seed because birds are not affected by it, but the rodents won't touch the seeds then. But a warning - DO NOT get this on your eyes or hands and apply it to the cables in a well ventilated area or outside. And if you put it on cables, you need to wear gloves in the future when handling them.
Thank You! It was not me that placed those years into the summary! I copied exactly what was on the BBC article. They years were placed in by the./ mod.
For the record - I did not put years in the article summary. That was done by the slashdot admin. You can look at the original article to see the text that I copied and pasted did not have dates.
Slashdot Mirror
Once you get your foot in the door on the technical side you might be able to move toward programming if you bust your hump. For years. Largely without recognition. Be prepared, not just to prove yourself, but to prove your self over and over until someone actually notices. And then to that again until someone who is willing to take a chance on you notices.
I cannot stress this enough. The original poster would actually achieve entry-level programmer status FASTER if they went back to school for a relevant degree. Getting to the point of actually programming at anything other than the smallest shops would take such a significant amount of time, that you have to wonder if there would be any benefit at all to making the career change.
This is too true. I do think this is the product of hiring people because they know a specific technology, instead of having a strong underpinning of technical knowledge. The "Give a man a fish and feed him for a day, teach a man to fish and feed him for his life" certainly applies here. Learning just a language syntax feeds you for a day, and companies don't want that. If the person was a fisherman though, they could catch any kind of fish. A foundation in the basics of technology should be favored over knowing any one technology.
I can tell you that without a formal training in the field I wouldn't even bring you in for an interview.
Programming is more than just knowing a language. The other things you learn when obtaining a CS degree help you be a better programmer that doesn't require a lot of hand holding.
AMEN! I agree 100%. The boom times of the late 90s are very long gone. Employers are VERY discriminating today. They don't just want a person who knows a language syntax, they want someone who knows software, and that involves skills FAR beyond language syntax.
I think the original poster will have a very difficult time, if not impossible time, getting into the field in anything other than the lowest, least skilled position (with commensurate pay). Just knowing C++ is not enough to break into the field in a few months. I have been doing development for years, and when I start to look for a new job it takes me a few months just to brush up on all the things I already know that are asked in interviews. He/She would be coming into the field with the same experience and less relevant skills than a new graduate, but most likely expecting a higher salary. That would be a large strike against them in the marketplace. Even if he had great business acumen, his stated desire for a tech job specifically requires a strong tech background, and we all know that learning a companies product is much easier than creating the foundation required for a good technical understanding of the field. If the original poster was willing to spend more than a few months in order to break into the industry, they may have a chance, but I don't see any way to accomplish that goal in just a few months of learning. I also don't think that Open Source contribution would be in any way valuable for the individual. Open Source projects don't just want "anyone who wants to code". The vast majority of these projects are run by very highly skilled people with years of experience. The only way to really get experience is to be hired and work in a business setting developing software. Just writing code is NOT experience. My best advice for the original poster is don't try to do this in a few months. Go take out school loans and get a degree in the area. That would be the absolute fastest way to get a mid level or higher job in programming. Otherwise they will spend way more time "climbing the ranks" out of the helpdesk or other low level job they are most likely to get. There really is no shortcut in gaining knowledge and experience. Both are a product of time and effort. Attempts to circumvent that RARELY work.
Programming can be very hard to transfer into, given the demand for experience and specific knowledge in the field (the US Dept of Labor sites this as one of the reasons less people enter into the field over others for second jobs). It would be almost impossible for you to get into anything other than an entry level support job (think helpdesk). Getting a job as a full developer will be a very difficult proposition. You might be able to get a job doing some "simple" development in a small shop though (think perl, php, that kind of stuff). Compare yourself to a college grad with a degree in Comp Sci (or similar degree) - graduates in this years class are seeing a very tough job market, even though software engineering is comparably untouched by the ongoing depression. These grads would have a level of experience similar to yours, but most likely be willing to work for less, and have been formally trained in the field. My suggestion would be to spend a significant amount of time learning the field, not just a language syntax. Go to a college website, see the books that are used for the classes, and start in on them. There is MUCH MUCH more to programming that just knowing a language syntax.
I was going to say the same thing. It would seem to me that those that fear death the most are the most ardent believers in an afterlife (which religion offers), and thus also most likely to pursue excessive EOL care.
First of all, I am very much in favor of the Second Amendment. Where I live in Illinois, you have to have passed a background check and received a FOID (Firearm Owners ID), before you can even legally TOUCH a gun. And I have to say, I would have no issue at all if in the process of getting a FOID, you had to pass a safety class and test. For people born after 1986 in Illinois, they must pass a hunter safety course before they can have a hunting license. Even though I own lots of guns of every type, I would have no reservation of requiring the same type of class and test for gun ownership.
Java and .Net are not going anywhere in the near, or even intermediate, future. C++ is also fairly strong. Choose any area, rather than a language, to learn about. Distributed computing is very big for very large systems (stock exchanges, banks, etc) and is mainly dominated by Java. If you like desktop apps, .Net is the clear leader. If you like OS or embedded programming, C++ is your choice (just be aware that the pool of jobs for OS and embedded programming is pretty small compared to the others). Or look at a place you want to live (Chicago, New York, etc), and check the jobs in those areas, that will give you an idea of what to look for since certain industries tend to group together (e.g. Chicago and New York are very large financial hubs, so distributed computing is big in those cities).
So, first of all, you have already put yourself into a group that most likely does NOT fall into the students described in the original post because you have interest in proving yourself, rather than just getting rewards. In that respect, if you keep in mind that it takes hard work to get bonuses and perks, etc in the real world, you are way ahead. .NET, etc) and get familiar with it. .NET, Linux, etc, they are all just TOOLS. If you learn the basics of why things work the way they do, you can pick up any and all of this later. Tech changes in the marketplace, you cannot pick "the one perfect tech". When I started there was pretty much just C/C++. Along the way I learned all the other languages and went back to school for a masters degree in Software Engineering. Almost all companies do not expect college grads to know everything under the sun, they are like pro football scouts - they look for raw talent. Just keep an attitude that is helpful and inquisitive, always work to improve yourself, and actually enjoy your work, bust your ass and you will do better than the majority.
In terms of skills - really nail your classwork. Think of a BS as the foundation of a house. It is not glamorous, but if laid well, you will have no problem building the rest of the house which can be as fancy as you want it.
If you are looking to add to areas you don't cover in school (say over the summer), try to get internships that have you actually work with development groups (or whatever area you are interested in, like sys admin stuff). If you can't get an internship, then decide on some area you find interesting (distributed computing, OS, web, etc) and just learn as much as you can. Or pick up some framework you don't see in school (Spring, EJB,
Be aware though - there is NO ONE MAGIC TECHNOLOGY. JAVA,
AMEN to this!!!! I traveled extensively early in my career, and boy am I glad I don't do it anymore.
Your post here, as well as your listing of experience, only proves that you are exactly the example narcissist for the article. "advanced VB"? Are you kidding? Is this like "advanced dirt eating" or "advanced mud pie making"?
Too true. I don't think the whipper-snappers realize that business travel is for business, not pleasure. The times I have flown overseas, the work is so non-stop because of the expense of doing going overseas, that all I want to do is get the hell out of there and go home so I can get some sleep.
Yes. And I pay 2 bits for a newspaper :)
This is a massive and ridiculous invasion of privacy by the State of NJ. I cannot imagine in any way the government having the right to ban what a person does to their body, especially about something as trivial as a bikini wax.
With the very low cost of storage nowadays, I would not bother reusing or donating the drives. Take out the platters of the HDD, or the whole USB key, and go smashy smashy with a hammer. Collect the pieces and take it to a electronics recycling center. One nice side effect, is the smashy smashy bit is a great stress reliever, just wear safety glasses and perhaps gloves.
Giving a kid a "time-out" is totally acceptable. However, the use of the "time-out room" raises some concerns. There is not enough info in the news story, but some schools have a time-out room that would be appropriate only in a setting like a supermax prison. Here is a CNN article on what some of these rooms can be like: http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/12/17/seclusion.rooms/index.html. Now I am not saying that is what this kid was in, but there is not enough info in the story to say one way or another. If MY kid was put into a cell like the one in the CNN story, I not only would sue in civil court, but I would also pursue criminal charges. However, if my kid was told to stand in a corner for a time-out, I would have NO issue with it.
This is a VERY illegal practice. I recommend going head on against this and do the following: 1) Retain copies of your performance reviews. 2) Contact HR 3) Quit immediately. I think it is very important to quit ASAP, because if they have it in for you, they can come up with all kinds of nasty stuff in the next few weeks to "confirm" a poor standing upon leaving. You might also think of contacting an attorney, and have that attorney bring this to the legal department of the company. While your manager (or whomever the threatening party is) may think playing like this is ok, very few attorneys would allow the company to expose itself like this.
Glue traps are the absolute worst! Anyone here ever think of what happens? The mouse gets stuck on the trap until it dies from starvation or dehydration. Plan old spring loaded mouse traps work great, and kill it instantly. Although, have a sick story on the glue traps. 20 years ago in HS, working at McDs, I had a cheap manager and a lot of mice. He bought glue traps, and wanted to "reuse" them. By reuse, he thought he could just pull the mouse off the trap. We, he is pulling on that tail, and that mouse is squeaking like hell, and he pulled so hard he pulled the damn spine out of the mouse. The was a quick end to the glue traps and the real exterminators came in the next day.
This is very true. I have seen cats get the dry heaves when they see a dead mouse. I have never had a cat that was a mouser (read that as my female companion never had a cat...). Which pretty much means the cats did nothing useful, other that fill a plastic tray with shit and piss and get hair all over.
You can get this at any hardware or garden store. Basically it is just a spray bottle full of capsaicin, which is what gives chili peppers their kick. It is commonly sold as rabbit or deer repellent sprays. Aviaries, which have huge rodent problems, will mix hot pepper powder in with bird seed because birds are not affected by it, but the rodents won't touch the seeds then. But a warning - DO NOT get this on your eyes or hands and apply it to the cables in a well ventilated area or outside. And if you put it on cables, you need to wear gloves in the future when handling them.
The ./ mod added the years! My original post does not contain the years. Anyone can go look at the original to see.
It was not me! The ./ mod injected those years. see my original post - it does not have years in it!
you can see my original post at http://slashdot.org/~SpuriousLogic/ without the years
Thank You! It was not me that placed those years into the summary! I copied exactly what was on the BBC article. They years were placed in by the ./ mod.
For the record - I did not put years in the article summary. That was done by the slashdot admin. You can look at the original article to see the text that I copied and pasted did not have dates.