.for some of the decisions that comes out of Redmound:
"..hiccup..., -I know, I know! - How about we come up with a lame MP3 player and compete directly with Apple? And then give up after a year when it's not making 2000% profit for us"
"..hiccup...., -I know, I know! - How about we release an alpha version of a DRM-bloated OS and get our customers to help us debug it?"
"..hiccup...., -I know, I know! - How about we release an alpha version of a DRM-bloated OS that doesn't work on the hardware, but we'll still say that it's "capable..." (wink, wink)?"
"..hiccup...., -What do you mean he threw a chair through the window? - Yeah, he had just gotten back from the pub, you see..."
"..hiccup...., -I know, I know! - How about we
try to patent the internet?"
"..hiccup...., -I know, I know! - How about we
try to buy Yahoo - and then show 'em how do a search engine right since we obviously know what we are doing - We'll show that googlely company..."
circa 2007: "..hiccup...., How the hell are we going to make money now that there are better operating systems to use? -I know, I know! - Let's get into the stock market and buy some hedge funds and buy some real estate"..
"..hiccup...., I think I will turn the BSOD into the RSOD, no wait, that reminds me too much of the color of blood, back to the BSOD"...
"Stone also leaves a lot to be desired as a useful format. Transmission can be problematic."
Ha! - Didn't you ever hear of a catapult?
The problem I see with this analysis is that it is flawed in the sense that we only see the one obelisk that did survive. There are probably 100,000 obelisks that didn't survive. So what kind of retention rate would that be?
"The problem my dear programmer, as you so elequently put, is one of choice.."
Seriously. I have been involved with software development from 8-bit pics to Cluster's spanning wans and everything in between for the past 20 years or so.
Multiprocessing involves coordination between the processes. It doesn't matter (too much) whether it's separate cores or separate silicon. On any given modern OS there are plenty of examples of multiprocessor execution: Hard drives each have a processor, video cards each have a processor, USB controllers have a processor. All of these work because there is a well-defined API between them and the OS - a.k.a device drivers. People that write good device drivers (and kernel code) understand how an OS works. This is not generally true of the broader developer population.
Developer's keep blaming the CPU manufactures' that it's their fault. It's not. What prevents parallel processing from becoming mainstream is the lack of a standard inter-process communications mechanism (at the language level) that abstracts a lot of the dirty little details that are needed. Once the mechanism is in place, then people will start using it. I am not referring to semaphores and mutexes. These are synchronization mechanisms, NOT (directly) communication mechanisms... I am not talking about queues either - too much leeway on their use. Sockets would be closer, but most people think of sockets for "network" applications. They should be thinking of them as "distributed applications". As in distrbuted across cores. As an example, Microsoft just recently started to demonstrate that they "get it" because with the next release of VS. It will have a messaging library.
choice:
At this time there are too many different ways to implement multi-threaded/multi-processor aware software. Each implementation has possible bugs - race conditions, lockups, priority inversion, etc. The choices need to be narrowed
Having a standard (language & OS) API is the key to providing a framework for developer's to use, yet still allowing them the freedom to customize for specific needs. So the OS needs an interface for setting CPU/core preferences and the language needs to provide the API. Once there is an API, developer's can "wrap their minds" around the concept and then things will "take off". As I stated previously, I prefer the "message box" mechansims simply because they port easily, are easy to understand and provide for a very loosely coupled interaction. All good tenants of a multi-threaded/multi-processor implementation.
Danger Will Robinson:
One thing that I fear is that once the concept catches on, it will be overused or abused. People will start writing threads and processes that don't do enough work to justify the overhead. Everyone who starts writing programs will "advertise" that it's "multi-threaded", as if this somehow automatically indicates quality and/or "better" software...Not.
You could just takes pictures of everything using a 35mm BW FILM camera and have the prints developed with silver-halide and put the prints in the time capsule. We know that prints of this type will last for 100's years...Sometimes our technology isn't all that it's cracked up to be...
---OR---
To get increase the odds of getting to 20 years:
Motherboard:
- Replace all electrolytic caps (they'll dry out) with tantalum caps (expensive)
- If the BIOS is flash or eprom (unlikely - haven't been used in 10 years), burn a PROM (Programmable ROM) and substitute. The PROM will last longer.
LCD display:
- same prep as motherboard
Hard Drive:
- Problematic. The bearings in the motor will probably seize after a long period of inactivity. Maybe a new SSD (but flash will have its problems as well)?
- Even having a bootable CD/DVD custom-pressed will still need a CD/DVD reader (has a motor with bearings). Maybe increase your odds by putting in dual drives? - One of them may survive.
- Maybe set up a USB thumb drive and try to boot from that. (make sure MB can boot USB drive)
Keyboard:
- Anything mechanical will be a problem. I would find a membrane-keyboard (the type that you can buy that is waterproof). This might have the best chance of avoiding corrosion
Entire Computer:
- Seal in moisture resistant plastic. Also put in at least 2 pounds of desiccant. Fill with nitrogen to prevent corrosion on metal-metal contacts.
- Replace all wiring with silicone-based wiring. (Wiring will dry out, crack and short when power is re-applied after 20 years)
- What OS are you going to use? CP/M was used 20 years ago, how many people know how to boot a CP/M system? The current generation doesn't even know about DOS...Do really think that anyone will be using windows in 20-50 years? Sorry Bill, ain't gonna happen... (we'll probably be using some kind of molecular computer that looks like a glass filled with water and is programmed for a specific task using nano-programming bots)
- If you aren't going to bury it, enclose it in metal container that is sealed and grounded to prevent the random cosmic ray from corrupting programmable memory or magnetic bits on the hard disk. Also helps in the event of solar storms/flares
- Make sure you have all of the cables you need. It's unlikely someone will find any of the same type 20 years from now. How many people still have a Centronics parallel port cable?
- I would probably disconnect all internal cables and connections to reduce metal-metal corrosion and also allow the nitrogen to infiltrate everything. This includes unplugging DRAM and CPU. Make sure to include instructions on how to hook everything back up.
- Power:
- Enclose the following:
- 55W 18V Solar panel
- 12vdc-120vac pure sinewave inverter
- 12v lead acid battery that is dry and never been charged (plates are not wet) This will keep for 10+ years
- battery acid (enough for charing battery)
- instructions for preparing, charging battery using solar panel and how to hook up solar panel to charge.
So, if you don't do the above and just throw everything in a bag, you might get 5-10 years before things deteriorate to the point that they fail. Another alternative might be to use a laptop where at least everything is self-contained. Still need a way to power it though. The electric-grid (in its current form) has been around for about 100 years. It will probably make it for at least 30-50 years, so power would be the least of my concerns.
And my last question would be, would anyone be alive (or care) about a computer that's 20 years old.
Do you currently care about an IBM PC -8086 with 256K of memory, a 360k 5.25 floppy, a 5MB hard drive with a hercules monochrome monitor?
That was 20 years ago...
Cover all interior walls with tin foil. Seriously. As an added benefit, you will have mirrors everywhere so that you can see when you have left "your barn door" open. It's also great when making out with your signficant other.
Some other things you "could" do (but not as fun are:
1)Use some of that paint that blocks cell phone calls. (works for wifi also)
2)Use magnetic paint (has iron oxide in it) and then put a coat of "normal" paint for the color of your choice.
Flash is to the web, what Power Point presentations are to meetings.
Every fucking asshole jackass thinks they're cool by making a fucking Flash presentation. Just like every fucking asshole jackass has to think they're cool by putting together a PowerPoint slide.
To every asshole organization, journalist, website, author that generates flash:
Hey asshole: Just give us the data in plain text. Not everyone is a fucking idiot. We do understand numbers and can read sentences, unlike you apparently.
How many times does the story get repeated? The DATA is what's most important, not the hardware... They valued HA over DR. The fact that they never made a backup in 7 years (since 2002) is unbelievable.
I wonder if they considered asking all of their customers to reseed their site with their entries? After all, the bloggers kept a local copy right??? RIGHT???? I know I do... Unreal.
Perhaps, the problem of sorting needs to be looked at differently and ask the question: why is there a need to sort to begin with? - maybe the process that created the items to be sorted should be parallelized and each of those processes are responsible for deciding the sort order.. "There is no spoon..."
Get 1 machine:
4 core or more, 8GB of ram or more, Terrabytes of drive storage. Add your favorite 64 bit host OS. Get VMWare. Create Virtual machines. I went virtual about 1-1/2 years ago. I will never go back. I run multple multiple vm's each with their own VPN into 1) work, 2) client sites, 3) Hosting sites. I have a Visual Studio vm, a Linux server hosting subversion repository, Debian dev enironment, Linux server with Apache for testing web based apps. All on 1 machine.
One caveat... You can not do hardware (driver) development in virtual machines. Just sayin.....
It sounds like you are already prepared to disassemble so:
1) Remove all batteries
2) Use a toothbrush and isopropyl alcohol (97%) to wash the boards/components
3) Rinse using distilled water
4) Use an air compresssor to blow dry everything. Make sure that you dry under IC's and components.(if you don't own an air compressor, now is the time to buy one).
5) Let sit for at least 48 hours afterwards
6) Visually inspect
7) Let'er rip..
The Ubuntu (or any Linux-based kernel) distro will never, ever match the "smoothness" of either MAC or Solaris until Linus allows the changes necessary in the linux kernel for more real-time performance. Period. (He is just being stubborn, at this point) I have used Solaris (previously SunOS) since 1990 and always end up going back to it because I have never experienced anything close to how smooth the GUI (and the rest of the system) runs. I suspect mostly due to the pre-emptable kernel in Solaris. So he (Canonical) is doomed from the start. A ugly GUI with lipstick on it is still an ugly GUI... If you haven't tried Solaris 10 (free for non-commercial use) try it, you might like it, Mikey...
This contest was poorly (either intentionally, or not) constructed. It is yielding the results expected: no takers.
Whoever designed this challenged knows absolutely nothing about business. If someone is in business they are not idiots.
Why would a business attempt to win a challenge when for a measely $500 dollars they would have to publicly disclose how they did it? This is suicide, give away their business secrets (their advantage) for $500 - That would be the end of their business. That's like offering to buy their business for $500.
It would need to be something like $1,000,000 and maybe that wouldn't be enough...
Whoever designed this challenge are idiots.. I am not sure it should have even made slashdot.
Of everyone here who is expressing outrage at this, I wonder how many of your browsers have Adobe's Flash plugin installed? Have you ever read the the freakin' EULA for Adobe Flash? In case you haven't: It basically says: Adobe has the right to monitor anything/everything regarding a user's activities, report those activities back to Adobe, including any data that the user has. You think I am kidding - go read it for yourself....
This is a minor, minor problem compared to the Flash plugin.
And another thing, if you are using Google Apps along with G-drive to store your data, you shouldn't care either, the end result is just about the same thing, only you are just making it easier for Google to get to your data. Actually, you rely on Google (and your ISP), to kindly allow access to your own data. The world is doomed.
A Chinese company tried to purchase Seagate a while back, but their quality was too high (i.e. not enough profit), so Seagate is slowly lowering the quality enough so that they will come back and buy them.
On another note: some firmware engineer doesn't really understand a damn thing about how unix operating systems run. I suspect that Seagate is attempting to jump on the "green" bandwagon by being "power consumption" friendly, to the point of their drives not actually working correctly anymore, but they sure will be green - especially when they don't power up at all.
Prediction: look for a new product line from Seagate called "green-gate" drives.
To Seagate: Ignore your customers at your own peril. Green be damned.
Nice job, but if he was a real "man" he wouldn't have used advanced circuits like TTL. He should have wired it using 2N3904 and 2N3906 transistors using RTL (Resistor/Transistor/Logic) instead of taking the easy way out and using that new-fangled TTL stuff.
And when he gets real serious, he can start with triode tubes (ala Eniac / Multics), then he will really have demonstrated his manhood (or lunacy).
Slashdot Mirror
"The unspoken reality at Microsoft is that there is a large minority of Mormons working in and around Microsoft"
At what point does a "large minority" become a majority? And if they aren't a majority, why the fuck should anyone care?
.for some of the decisions that comes out of Redmound:
"..hiccup..., -I know, I know! - How about we come up with a lame MP3 player and compete directly with Apple? And then give up after a year when it's not making 2000% profit for us"
"..hiccup...., -I know, I know! - How about we release an alpha version of a DRM-bloated OS and get our customers to help us debug it?"
"..hiccup...., -I know, I know! - How about we release an alpha version of a DRM-bloated OS that doesn't work on the hardware, but we'll still say that it's "capable..." (wink, wink)?"
"..hiccup...., -What do you mean he threw a chair through the window? - Yeah, he had just gotten back from the pub, you see..."
"..hiccup...., -I know, I know! - How about we try to patent the internet?"
"..hiccup...., -I know, I know! - How about we try to buy Yahoo - and then show 'em how do a search engine right since we obviously know what we are doing - We'll show that googlely company..."
circa 2007: "..hiccup...., How the hell are we going to make money now that there are better operating systems to use? -I know, I know! - Let's get into the stock market and buy some hedge funds and buy some real estate"..
"..hiccup...., I think I will turn the BSOD into the RSOD, no wait, that reminds me too much of the color of blood, back to the BSOD"...
This is easy,
1) Put a chainlink on it so that it can be carried like a biker's wallett
2) Put a Harley-Davidson sticker on it, or get it painted with one
3) Get a tattoo.
I/dont/think/that/urls/are/too/long/I/think/that/they/should/be/as/long/as/they/need/to/be/after/all/it's/only/bandwidth/and/bandwith/will/always/increase/until/it/doesn't/anymore..
"Stone also leaves a lot to be desired as a useful format. Transmission can be problematic."
Ha! - Didn't you ever hear of a catapult?
The problem I see with this analysis is that it is flawed in the sense that we only see the one obelisk that did survive. There are probably 100,000 obelisks that didn't survive. So what kind of retention rate would that be?
"The problem my dear programmer, as you so elequently put, is one of choice.."
Seriously. I have been involved with software development from 8-bit pics to Cluster's spanning wans and everything in between for the past 20 years or so.
Multiprocessing involves coordination between the processes. It doesn't matter (too much) whether it's separate cores or separate silicon. On any given modern OS there are plenty of examples of multiprocessor execution: Hard drives each have a processor, video cards each have a processor, USB controllers have a processor. All of these work because there is a well-defined API between them and the OS - a.k.a device drivers. People that write good device drivers (and kernel code) understand how an OS works. This is not generally true of the broader developer population.
Developer's keep blaming the CPU manufactures' that it's their fault. It's not. What prevents parallel processing from becoming mainstream is the lack of a standard inter-process communications mechanism (at the language level) that abstracts a lot of the dirty little details that are needed. Once the mechanism is in place, then people will start using it. I am not referring to semaphores and mutexes. These are synchronization mechanisms, NOT (directly) communication mechanisms... I am not talking about queues either - too much leeway on their use. Sockets would be closer, but most people think of sockets for "network" applications. They should be thinking of them as "distributed applications". As in distrbuted across cores. As an example, Microsoft just recently started to demonstrate that they "get it" because with the next release of VS. It will have a messaging library.
choice:
At this time there are too many different ways to implement multi-threaded/multi-processor aware software. Each implementation has possible bugs - race conditions, lockups, priority inversion, etc. The choices need to be narrowed
Having a standard (language & OS) API is the key to providing a framework for developer's to use, yet still allowing them the freedom to customize for specific needs. So the OS needs an interface for setting CPU/core preferences and the language needs to provide the API. Once there is an API, developer's can "wrap their minds" around the concept and then things will "take off". As I stated previously, I prefer the "message box" mechansims simply because they port easily, are easy to understand and provide for a very loosely coupled interaction. All good tenants of a multi-threaded/multi-processor implementation.
Danger Will Robinson:
One thing that I fear is that once the concept catches on, it will be overused or abused. People will start writing threads and processes that don't do enough work to justify the overhead. Everyone who starts writing programs will "advertise" that it's "multi-threaded", as if this somehow automatically indicates quality and/or "better" software...Not.
As other posters have said, use some local identifier:
Phone books are usually by city/region:
Request that the user get their phone book for that year, go to page xx, go down xx number of entries, use that phone number for login credentials.
Don't change it too often and when someone travels, they will know the code as well.
Now, after all these years, I've finally found a use for the phone book. (haven't used one in many years, it just takes up space).
You could just takes pictures of everything using a 35mm BW FILM camera and have the prints developed with silver-halide and put the prints in the time capsule. We know that prints of this type will last for 100's years...Sometimes our technology isn't all that it's cracked up to be...
---OR---
To get increase the odds of getting to 20 years:
Motherboard:
- Replace all electrolytic caps (they'll dry out) with tantalum caps (expensive)
- If the BIOS is flash or eprom (unlikely - haven't been used in 10 years), burn a PROM (Programmable ROM) and substitute. The PROM will last longer.
LCD display:
- same prep as motherboard
Hard Drive:
- Problematic. The bearings in the motor will probably seize after a long period of inactivity. Maybe a new SSD (but flash will have its problems as well)? - Even having a bootable CD/DVD custom-pressed will still need a CD/DVD reader (has a motor with bearings). Maybe increase your odds by putting in dual drives? - One of them may survive. - Maybe set up a USB thumb drive and try to boot from that. (make sure MB can boot USB drive)
Keyboard:
- Anything mechanical will be a problem. I would find a membrane-keyboard (the type that you can buy that is waterproof). This might have the best chance of avoiding corrosion
Entire Computer:
- Seal in moisture resistant plastic. Also put in at least 2 pounds of desiccant. Fill with nitrogen to prevent corrosion on metal-metal contacts.
- Replace all wiring with silicone-based wiring. (Wiring will dry out, crack and short when power is re-applied after 20 years)
- What OS are you going to use? CP/M was used 20 years ago, how many people know how to boot a CP/M system? The current generation doesn't even know about DOS...Do really think that anyone will be using windows in 20-50 years? Sorry Bill, ain't gonna happen... (we'll probably be using some kind of molecular computer that looks like a glass filled with water and is programmed for a specific task using nano-programming bots)
- If you aren't going to bury it, enclose it in metal container that is sealed and grounded to prevent the random cosmic ray from corrupting programmable memory or magnetic bits on the hard disk. Also helps in the event of solar storms/flares
- Make sure you have all of the cables you need. It's unlikely someone will find any of the same type 20 years from now. How many people still have a Centronics parallel port cable?
- I would probably disconnect all internal cables and connections to reduce metal-metal corrosion and also allow the nitrogen to infiltrate everything. This includes unplugging DRAM and CPU. Make sure to include instructions on how to hook everything back up.
- Power:
- Enclose the following:
- 55W 18V Solar panel
- 12vdc-120vac pure sinewave inverter
- 12v lead acid battery that is dry and never been charged (plates are not wet) This will keep for 10+ years
- battery acid (enough for charing battery)
- instructions for preparing, charging battery using solar panel and how to hook up solar panel to charge.
So, if you don't do the above and just throw everything in a bag, you might get 5-10 years before things deteriorate to the point that they fail. Another alternative might be to use a laptop where at least everything is self-contained. Still need a way to power it though. The electric-grid (in its current form) has been around for about 100 years. It will probably make it for at least 30-50 years, so power would be the least of my concerns.
And my last question would be, would anyone be alive (or care) about a computer that's 20 years old.
Do you currently care about an IBM PC -8086 with 256K of memory, a 360k 5.25 floppy, a 5MB hard drive with a hercules monochrome monitor?
That was 20 years ago...
For anyone still running Windows 9x, they have a lot more to worry about than just not being able to use Silverlight. I'm just sayin...
And to the moron complaining about M$:
M$M$M$M$M$M$M$M$M$M$M$M$M$M$M$M$M$M$M$M$M$M$M$M$M$M$M$M$M$M$M$M$M$M$M$M$M$M$M$M$M$M$M$M$
If I want to use M$, then dammit, I will use M$ For the greediest company on the known earth
Cover all interior walls with tin foil. Seriously. As an added benefit, you will have mirrors everywhere so that you can see when you have left "your barn door" open. It's also great when making out with your signficant other.
Some other things you "could" do (but not as fun are:
1)Use some of that paint that blocks cell phone calls. (works for wifi also)
2)Use magnetic paint (has iron oxide in it) and then put a coat of "normal" paint for the color of your choice.
Didn't your hear?
Flash is to the web, what Power Point presentations are to meetings.
Every fucking asshole jackass thinks they're cool by making a fucking Flash presentation. Just like every fucking asshole jackass has to think they're cool by putting together a PowerPoint slide.
To every asshole organization, journalist, website, author that generates flash:
Hey asshole: Just give us the data in plain text. Not everyone is a fucking idiot. We do understand numbers and can read sentences, unlike you apparently.
Evolution even applies to the 'Net:
The stupid die...
How many times does the story get repeated? The DATA is what's most important, not the hardware... They valued HA over DR. The fact that they never made a backup in 7 years (since 2002) is unbelievable.
I wonder if they considered asking all of their customers to reseed their site with their entries? After all, the bloggers kept a local copy right??? RIGHT???? I know I do... Unreal.
Perhaps, the problem of sorting needs to be looked at differently and ask the question: why is there a need to sort to begin with? - maybe the process that created the items to be sorted should be parallelized and each of those processes are responsible for deciding the sort order.. "There is no spoon..."
Get 1 machine: 4 core or more, 8GB of ram or more, Terrabytes of drive storage.
Add your favorite 64 bit host OS.
Get VMWare. Create Virtual machines.
I went virtual about 1-1/2 years ago. I will never go back. I run multple multiple vm's each with their own VPN into 1) work, 2) client sites, 3) Hosting sites. I have a Visual Studio vm, a Linux server hosting subversion repository, Debian dev enironment, Linux server with Apache for testing web based apps. All on 1 machine.
One caveat... You can not do hardware (driver) development in virtual machines. Just sayin.....
It sounds like you are already prepared to disassemble so:
1) Remove all batteries
2) Use a toothbrush and isopropyl alcohol (97%) to wash the boards/components
3) Rinse using distilled water
4) Use an air compresssor to blow dry everything. Make sure that you dry under IC's and components.(if you don't own an air compressor, now is the time to buy one).
5) Let sit for at least 48 hours afterwards
6) Visually inspect
7) Let'er rip..
"Get yourself a big tower case" and you can call it: "The Tower of Babel"
The Ubuntu (or any Linux-based kernel) distro will never, ever match the "smoothness" of either MAC or Solaris until Linus allows the changes necessary in the linux kernel for more real-time performance. Period. (He is just being stubborn, at this point) I have used Solaris (previously SunOS) since 1990 and always end up going back to it because I have never experienced anything close to how smooth the GUI (and the rest of the system) runs. I suspect mostly due to the pre-emptable kernel in Solaris. So he (Canonical) is doomed from the start. A ugly GUI with lipstick on it is still an ugly GUI... If you haven't tried Solaris 10 (free for non-commercial use) try it, you might like it, Mikey...
This contest was poorly (either intentionally, or not) constructed. It is yielding the results expected: no takers. Whoever designed this challenged knows absolutely nothing about business. If someone is in business they are not idiots. Why would a business attempt to win a challenge when for a measely $500 dollars they would have to publicly disclose how they did it? This is suicide, give away their business secrets (their advantage) for $500 - That would be the end of their business. That's like offering to buy their business for $500. It would need to be something like $1,000,000 and maybe that wouldn't be enough... Whoever designed this challenge are idiots.. I am not sure it should have even made slashdot.
Of everyone here who is expressing outrage at this, I wonder how many of your browsers have Adobe's Flash plugin installed? Have you ever read the the freakin' EULA for Adobe Flash? In case you haven't: It basically says: Adobe has the right to monitor anything/everything regarding a user's activities, report those activities back to Adobe, including any data that the user has. You think I am kidding - go read it for yourself....
This is a minor, minor problem compared to the Flash plugin.
And another thing, if you are using Google Apps along with G-drive to store your data, you shouldn't care either, the end result is just about the same thing, only you are just making it easier for Google to get to your data. Actually, you rely on Google (and your ISP), to kindly allow access to your own data. The world is doomed.
A Chinese company tried to purchase Seagate a while back, but their quality was too high (i.e. not enough profit), so Seagate is slowly lowering the quality enough so that they will come back and buy them. On another note: some firmware engineer doesn't really understand a damn thing about how unix operating systems run. I suspect that Seagate is attempting to jump on the "green" bandwagon by being "power consumption" friendly, to the point of their drives not actually working correctly anymore, but they sure will be green - especially when they don't power up at all. Prediction: look for a new product line from Seagate called "green-gate" drives. To Seagate: Ignore your customers at your own peril. Green be damned.
Nice job, but if he was a real "man" he wouldn't have used advanced circuits like TTL. He should have wired it using 2N3904 and 2N3906 transistors using RTL (Resistor/Transistor/Logic) instead of taking the easy way out and using that new-fangled TTL stuff. And when he gets real serious, he can start with triode tubes (ala Eniac / Multics), then he will really have demonstrated his manhood (or lunacy).