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Ubuntu To Pay for Upgrades To the Free Software User Experience
jcatcw writes "Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols reports that Mark Shuttleworth, CEO of Canonical, is using his millions to improve the Linux user experience, hiring people to work on X, OpenGL, Gtk, Qt, GNOME and KDE. He had doubted that desktop Linux could ever equal the smooth, graceful integration of the Mac OS. Now, between the driving pace of open-source development, and Shuttleworth's millions, it might be happening. Why not? After all, Mac OS itself is based on FreeBSD. Desktop Linux's future is starting to look brighter."
Since the summary mentioned it first, I've always been curious as to the logistics behind having OS X released as a desktop environment. *shrug* who knows, might be interesting.
Windows has more viruses because linux has more virus coders.
How about paying someone to fix Flash? It's what made me go back to Windows.
Speaking as a FreeBSD user I don't appreciate it.
Mac OS uses a modified Mach kernel and some of FreeBSD's userland stuff, but that's it.
As anyone with half a brain knows, Mac OS X is based on the Xnu kernel, not the FreeBSD one. Xnu is a combination of Mach combined with various bits lifted from FreeBSD 5.x (but is not itself the FreeBSD kernel). OS X is an updated NeXT, not a GUI-fied FreeBSD.
I can't believe the editors let such a blatant slip-up onto the front page. Wait, it's slashdot --practically speaking, we have no editors. ;_;
Shuttleworth paying out of pocket to help the ubuntu experience is nothing new. He's always done this. The printed CD's of ubuntu have always been free to whomever requested them. That's cost out of pocket for canonical. Don't get me wrong, this is great; but it's something they've always been doing.
X, OpenGL, Gtk, Qt, GNOME and KDE
Frankly, that's a considerable amount of work he's planning on hiring up for. This intrigues me greatly, to be honest. And, with any luck, this all comes back to the community so that not-Ubuntu users can get in on it, too.
Though I give it five minutes before we hear complaints that they're not helping out some obscure toolkit or DE. :-)
Demanding constant attention will only lead to attention.
"Why not? After all, Mac OS itself is based on FreeBSD. Desktop Linux's future is starting to look brighter."
As long as you have people literally in stand-offs against each other based on QT vs. GTK, Gnome vs. KDE, and the merits of this distro over that, then no. It won't become as seemless. Why? Because a lot of good programmers are tied up in projects that simply don't move the ship forward. They only decorate a room on the ship. Hey, I love Linux. Adore it! Maybe the problem is until Linux geeks get laid more, they simply won't bother to take time to smell the flowers: i.e. pay any attention to the end-user's experience.
is 2008!
It's ironic that the first link http://blogs.computerworld.com/ubuntu_to_work_more_with_larger_linux_community renders incorrectly in Konqueror -- no scrollbars. They aren't invisible. They really are not present.
for all that it mattered. BSD was free and worked, in 1986. That's why Jobs - when he solicited his engineer's choice - was told to use BSD 4.
MacOS is "based" on NeXT - which was derived from extending the Smalltalk-like model of Objective C to a whole series of desktop and application frameworks.
You see, Jobs and his guys were SO blown away by the GUI at PARC, that they missed the object revolution, used to create it. They were all determined to do this again, the 'right' way, without saddling Mac/Lisa compatibility to the horse.
That got engineered on later ;-)
You want further illustration of this argument? Try managing an OSX workgroup from the network with existing BSD and opensource. You effectively manage the POSIXy parts of the system, while having almost no policy or configuration management of the Finder/Application experienc through which much of the Mac user interacts. You could - in theory, with the sources available, swap a modern Linux distro under there instead of the hybrid BSD. Almost no one would notice.
"Flyin' in just a sweet place,
Never been known to fail..."
I keep wondering when Gnome and KDE will ever join forces and do some real damage. But every time I wonder that out loud somebody smacks me down, as though I'm asking the English and German to join forces against tooth decay. I guess it's smack-down time again.
This must be proof that 2009 will be the year of the Linux desktop!
As an audio software developer, I have tried several times to make and port programs to Linux.
Basically, you never dare to request anything other than the default config from an alsa driver. Trying different sample rates, formats or channel configs can cause anything from an unhelpful error code to a segfault (I kid you not).
So it's hard to take Linux seriously in this context.
ALSA is a roadblock, due to being "good enough", but it's nowhere near good.
if KDE and gnome join together it'll be a big huge fight considering that gnoem was a GNU project and KDE views are different.
but as long as Mark doesn't make these projects more "ubuntu" I'm all happy
OS X is not "based" on BSD.
That having been said, I wouldn't leave FreeBSD for anything; even with the poor flash support. It's the cat's pajamas.
"Macs were interesting because 1) they weren't Intel and 2) they weren't Unix, now they're both. Oh well."
There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
Red Hat has invested a lot of money to improve the Linux desktop experience as well. They've made great strides, but still - they still have a ways to go, at least in the opinion of this user of both OSes. So spending more money does not guarantee they'll reach the goal.
I think, in order for Linux to really break through here, they probably need to have teams of actual designers rather than have the coders do most of the design themselves. They also probably need to "think different" and come up with their own usability/interface ideas, rather than keep mimicking Apple's (which Gnome seems to frequently do, if discussions on the developer email lists are any indication).
In any case this is a good thing, and I hope Linux continues to push forward thanks to this new investment.
#DeleteChrome
while this is useful admirable-- if I had millions, I would consider setting up a program to pay a limited number of folks $100 for installing Linux on a desktop machine used 8+ hours a week and using it for a few months. A weekly (at least) intelligent posting to the forums would be required. You would have to apply for the program - show some of your writing on the internet (slashdot posts) as someone who really exists and can actually communicate.
Meanwhile, paid staff would facilitate a way to solve problems (watching forums, suggesting fixes, adding to a wiki) -- perhaps the organization could also offer bounties for FOSS developers to improve certain areas which are most annoying.
This guy is way ahead of me, I'm still waiting for the millions.
Sorry, I couldn't help it:
It is official; Netcraft now confirms: *BSD is growing
One more crippling bombshell hit the already beleaguered Windows community when IDC confirmed that *BSD market share has risen yet again, now up to more than 30 percent of all servers. Coming on the heels of a recent Netcraft survey which plainly states that *BSD has gained more market share , this news serves to reinforce what we've known all along. *BSD is sending other OSes into complete disarray, as fittingly exemplified by topping the charts in the recent Sys Admin comprehensive networking test.
You don't need to be a Daemon to predict *BSD's future. The hand writing is on the wall: *BSD faces a long and prosperous future. In fact there won't be any future at all for Windows Server because *BSD is growing. Things are looking very good for *BSD. As many of us are already aware, *BSD continues to gain market share. Red ink flows from Redmond like a river of blood.
FreeBSD is the most loved of them all, having gained 93% more core developers. The sudden and pleasant release of the long developed 5.0 only serves to underscore the point more clearly. There can no longer be any doubt: FreeBSD is growing.
Let's keep to the facts and look at the numbers.
OpenBSD leader Theo states that there are 70000 users of OpenBSD. How many users of NetBSD are there? Let's see. The number of OpenBSD versus NetBSD posts on Usenet is roughly in ratio of 5 to 1. Therefore there are about 70000/5 = 14000 NetBSD users. BSD/OS posts on Usenet are about half of the volume of NetBSD posts. Therefore there are about 7000 users of BSD/OS. A recent article put FreeBSD at about 80 percent of the *BSD market. Therefore there are (70000+14000+7000)*4 = 364000 FreeBSD users. This is consistent with the number of FreeBSD Usenet posts.
Due to the release of OSX, cool new technologies and so on, FreeBSD is expanding into more desktops than ever. FreeBSD has become more than the sum of its parts.
All major surveys show that *BSD has steadily gained in market share. *BSD is very powerful and its long term survival prospects are very bright. If Windows is to survive at all it will be among OS dilettante dabblers. *BSD continues to improve. The progress achieved is nothing short of a miracle. For all practical purposes, *BSD is alive and kicking.
Fact: *BSD will kick your ass
Though his money is undoubtedly helping, I think Ubuntu would become much more popular, much faster, if it would lose the hideous orange and brown color scheme.
http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/12326/
I hold very few opinions. I hold information based on observation and fact. If you wish to disagree, please use facts.
X? OpenGL? really? Will some of the simpler more annoying stuff that is broken right now be addressed as well? How about we start with some simple stuff like getting Flash with audio not crash Firefox 98% of the time. I don't care that you can fix that by installing Flash 10 beta, or some extra library, the fact is that it does not work out of the box. Not only that, the fix (as explained by the hundreds of other users who had the problem) involves jumping to the command line and apt-get'ing a new version of flash after installing a new unsupported apt source. For me, it's fine, I can deal with it but the general public will not want to jump through those hoops. It is very hard to spread Linux adoption when this is one of the very first things users experience. They will not care that the problem might be on Adobe's end or Mozilla's or some obscure repo. The fact is, the browser shipped with the OS crashes. This makes it all look unpolished, unfinished. A house with squeaky floors. I hope that money is also being used to eliminate these basic problems at whatever the root cause may be. .. and yes bugs have been filed!
[alk]
Don't forget that OSX is developed for a small subset of all available hardware. End users installing linux will likely have wildly varying hardware configurations making the process of providing an equal experience to all users incredibly more complex than such a task would be in Apple's situation.
...for not calling this the year of the linux desktop.
BeauHD. Worst editor since kdawson.
Where does Mark Shuttleworth get all his money from, and why is he trying so hard?
I'm genuinely curious, since this is making my 'trust no one' sense tingle.
Kudos to Cannonical for this move. Serious kudos indeed. That being said, I really hate reading Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols's blog posts.
I also disagree with Shuttleworth saying that OS X hands down provides the best experience. I haven't used it recently, but I have never been blown away by OS X. It does things well, but I don't see a massive usability revolution.
Please correct me if I'm wrong. Point to specific things the interface does well. Maybe the FOSS world will pay attention. But I'm just not seeing it.
The KDE interface is the best I've seen (though it certainly isn't perfect either).
http://blindscribblings.com - Tasty pop-culture in conceptual fashion.
WTF is Lunix???? Doesn't exist, according to distrowatch.
Fascism starts when the efficiency of the government becomes more important than the rights of the people.
the uberGeek. We should all aspire to be like that guy, he's worth millions but he chooses to give back to the community by paying for FOSS development out of his own pocket. Sure, Canonical is a business and I'm sure the publicity and improvements he's paying for will help get some more license fees, but the geek points he's scoring are worth so much more
**Geek points not redeemable for any cash value.
-- Sex is the antonym of pringles. Once you pop it's time to stop.
It's slow, crashy and overcomplicated.
Your first two arguments are unprovable flamebait, and the last is a matter of opinion. There are lots of people who think it's fast, stable, and just complicated enough.
It's got an ugly, messy desktop environment and it doesn't come with any decent usable software.
Again, the first is a matter of opinion, and I would think you could at least realize that you're in the minority. Lots of people think the desktop is pretty and well-organized. The last is, again, flamebait. It may not come with as much as your typical Linux distribution, but Safari, Pages, Mail, iTunes, Xcode, DVD Player, and the various iLife apps, among others, are far from unusuable or indecent. And, despite the fact that it doesn't come with as much as your typical Linux distribution, there are many thousands of free and open source programs that you can install.
It's got this weird browser that doesn't render stuff, doesn't have AdBlock and which usually gets replaced with Firefox.
"Doesn't render stuff" is, again, unproveable flamebait. Safari does just fine in rendering tests. You're also showing off your ignorance, as it does have AdBlock. Come on, that's the first link in Google.
It can't play back most videos or music files without expensive shareware.
This is just wrong and uninformed. Those are just examples off the top of my head that I like, there are plenty of other free and open source players out there.
It doesn't even have a usable text editor!
What about TextEdit and Pages is not usable?
If those are too flashy for you, just install vim or emacs. They work fine.
It's utter crap. Ubuntu is already better than Mac OSX. Please don't try to make another crappy OSX Aqua-looky-likey clone thing.
You clearly do not even know what you're talking about. Please spend some time using OS X or at least do a bit of research before you try to troll again.
Karma: Terrifying (mostly affected by atrocities you've committed)
Hardy Heron with firefox 3 and flash straight from the repositories.
No crashes, no problems and so much "Charlie bit my finger, again" it'll make you cry.
I *wish* it was broken. That way, the kids wouldn't keep replaying that stuff.
Never had a crash here in several years of use.. On similar hardware its as snappy as KDE.
Ever hear of VLC? Plays every media file ive ever tossed at it, and its not 'expensive shareware'.
Care to try again?
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Expensive shareware like VLC or Perian?
Its = possessive. It's = "it is"
I've done a lot of work on audio on Linux, not for the audio itself, but because I work with satellite telemetry that's frequency-modulated in the audio band. I hate ALSA. It broke completely with the Unix philosophy.
Before ALSA, one would open audio devices just like files, acquire audio data just like reading files, play audio just like writing files. ALSA went the Redmond way, one different API for each different type of data.
Yeah, Konqueror is so outdated. I mean, the last version was released, like, eight days ago! What kind of dinosaur is still using that?
It is that great. In about 20 minutes from a clean install I can have it on par with an Ubuntu install in terms of functionality.
The desktop environment isn't nearly as ugly and messy as Gnome and KDE are. They can reac OS X's level with a fair amount of work though.
It comes with what's necessary to get started, and has damn near every open source app available to it. It's also got a lot of stuff that it's unlikely Linux will ever have.
You mean Safari, which uses Webkit, which is used by Konqueror now, right?
I do the same thing on every OS. OS X or not.
Nice bald-faced lie. It played all but my OGGs out of the box, and I've been meaning to replace those with AAC rips (for a couple years now, suffice it to say they aren't that important.) And video is almost entirely accounted for by VLC, Perian, and the free version of Flip4Mac.
No it's not. Just because it was too hard for you to figure out and make intelligent comments regarding what you encountered does not make it crap.
It's *not* that great. It's slow, crashy and overcomplicated. It's got an ugly, messy desktop environment and it doesn't come with any decent usable software. It's got this weird browser that doesn't render stuff, doesn't have AdBlock and which usually gets replaced with Firefox. It can't play back most videos or music files without expensive shareware. It doesn't even have a usable text editor!
It's utter crap. Ubuntu is already better than Mac OSX. Please don't try to make another crappy OSX Aqua-looky-likey clone thing.
Sigh.
A desktop environment is often what you make of it. I can make Ubuntu look just as messy as I can make OSX look.
Decent usable software? Its true that OSX doesn't come with an office suite, but the default software for OSX is quite a bit more than you will get with Windows. Their software is simple which is good for the basic users, but not so good for a power user.
Lots of users replace their default browser, whether its safari, IE, or firefox.
It can and does play back most videos, and does an excellent job at playing back DVDs and any Divx compatible file(with the free (as in beer) plugin.)
TextEdit writes in plain text if you configure it to do so, but it also has vim, so I'm not sure what the complaint is there.
I mean, at least try to know what you're posting about. I don't care for one operating system more than the next, but I do know they all have their strengths and weaknesses, and I try to know a bit about as many as I can remember. I don't usually post, but that made me just shudder over the fact that people still think that way. We live in a multiple OS world. Get over it.
Hmmm, Bill Gates, take notice. Maybe you could spend some of your BILLIONS to make Windows have a better user experience?
Maybe just make it work a little better?
Maybe just work?
Moved to http://soylentnews.org/. You are invited to join us too!
You clearly do not even know what you're talking about. Please spend some time using OS X or at least do a bit of research before you try to troll again.
He probably would if he didn't have to commit 100% and buy a bloody mac to spend some time using it.
That is -my- only complaint about OSX, I don't like the hardware. I'm not talking about the 'value' or the price, I just straight up don't like it. I want a Core 2 Quad in a mini tower that will take a couple hard drives, video card upgrades, and some PCI/PCI-express cards as needed.
I don't want an overkill Xeon or two. I don't want an all-in-one imac.
On the laptop front, I want a tablet, or maybe an ultraportable like the macbook air. The modbook is too much money (given that you have to buy a macbook and then frankenstein it) and its not functional enough. I'm also interested in GPS and cellular data support as optional built-ins which apple doesn't offer, and definitely more usb ports than the air sports (ie more than ONE).
On the pricing front, apple's store is ridiculous for the 'upgrade' pricing, ridiculous to the point of obscene. Sure I buy the base model upgrade it myself, and sell off the spare parts, but I shouldn't have to.
Bottom line, I'd be a potential OSX customer, but their hardware just doesn't line up with my requirements. I'd consider a hackintosh... or a psystar... but I'm just not that desperate to run OSX. I had an old G4 tower that I quite liked, and G3's before that in beige tower and desktop boxes that I was very happy with, and I had an original ibook when I was in university... but now I don't have a single mac, not that I don't want OSX, but just just don't want their hardware.
It's *not* that great. It's slow, crashy and overcomplicated. It's got an ugly, messy desktop environment and it doesn't come with any decent usable software. It's got this weird browser that doesn't render stuff, doesn't have AdBlock and which usually gets replaced with Firefox. It can't play back most videos or music files without expensive shareware. It doesn't even have a usable text editor!
Yes it does, it's called TextEdit. If you're one of those Unix zealots, it also has a pretty close clone of the original vi in there as well.
The browser is fine. It uses Webkit which is based on... hmm... let me think... Mosaic? No. KHTML. Which is FLOSS. Webkit is FLOSS. Darwin is FLOSS. The desktop environment is wonderfully efficient, I find (although by no means perfect).
Please don't try to make another crappy OSX Aqua-looky-likey clone thing.
I do agree with you there. It just makes it look cheap and nasty - surely it's better to create a good Ubuntu theme than to clone OS X?
Those using pirated Tinysoft signatures(TM) are a real threat to society and should all be thrown in jail.
Linux needs serious PHB to QA the products, who are willing to tare it appart, who can stand up to the developers and go, This SUCKS!, YOU ARE A WORTHLESS HACK!, redo it!. Not developers who already love Linux and this it is the greatest thing ever, so they just go about doing thing the way they always have. Thinking Eyecandy is what a good interface makes, or Eyecandy is against a good interface and just a wast of CPU. So they produce more of the same. More apps that you need to edit a config file and yell at you because the answer is on page 10 of a Google Search. After trying hundred other methods that don't work. And when faced with a defency or a bug they twist and turn it to make the person asking for it seem stupid.
Here is one I found recently. Someone was looking for a NTFS Defrag program for Linux. Most of the posts were bashing NTFS and either telling to reformat his drive to ext2 or FAT32. There was one lonely kinda un moderated post in the middle of the fray that gave a link to an app but warned that is really isn't working well yet and you probably shouldn't use it.
If he is going to put money for Linux for the desktop and the average joe. Developers are not the key you need a strong QA staff who is willing to look at the minuses of Linux and get them fixed.
If you go to Mac Fan Boy sites you will see they are also the harshest critics of the Mac Platform. For Pro Linux sites, any talk of problems is dismissed modded down as flamebait or trolls. I like linux I really do, but it has problems that needs to be addressed. Many of them are not necessarily big ones but a lot of little ones that can move the system to a hassle to a charm to use.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
As far as I can tell, the killer app preventing linux from taking over the corporate world is the lack of an outlook replacement. More and more of our work is web based. Evolution has a beta mapi extension for exchange 2007, and exchange 2003 support (via screenscraping OWA). My attempts to get it working with exchange 2007 so far have failed. I'm really perplexed that no one seems to have nailed this down yet.
I have a mirror of the repository that Ubuntu uses. I can netboot any machine, install, and get any program I can imagine. I doubt that Apple runs a repository in the same scope. I also have freedom to do what I want with my repository, including sharing mirrors with friends.
Apple is suing a company for buying licenses on Amazon and re-selling them under first-sale doctrine. Can you say "No Rights"?
If one wants a true open-source experience, one needs an open source desktop on the Linux kernel. That's where most of the work is being done, and the most current. Also, what important thing does OSX have that Linux does not? I have Expose, CubeDesktop, and plenty others via compiz. I've also got darn near every server I'll ever need.
And Apple didnt have a usable SMB server, so they use Samba. Same with print services, so they use CUPS. Frankly, I'm glad they like using OSS. It's just the rest of the code looks like glue.
It's annoying that most file formats will not play under default system. Even Ubuntu Gnome searches the repo's for acceptable codecs and offers to install them. I'd figure the price one pays for Apple hardware and each software version they would at least offer install of VLC or ffmpeg with a player. It just seems kind of unfinished.
Linux already can use more hardware than OSX. Both run a similar kernel and have a similar underbelly. Both can run X and ssh. The difference is in the GUI. Ubuntu is a WiP that runs better in certain places and worse in certain places. OSX (aqua?) has major slowdowns on big file xfers, and has no simple ways to change settings they want. Although the 1 button mouse is the Apple thing, X was meant to be used with 3 buttons.
OSX is quality, but Ubuntu gets out of the way for me and offers insightful suggestions what would help me do stuff (get X package for X feature) rather than the Apple way of just not doing it. And that wifi driver costing more money shows Apple's mentality.
Saying OSX is based on FreeBSD is like saying Linux is based on Windows.
For all his grand talk Shuttleworth hasn't contributed squat to Linux except yet another tired windows-wannabe act like Caldera (later renamed SCO). His company already employs a lot of developers, but all of them are busy developing proprietary software and integrating proprietary enhancements into Ubuntu. Not a single one contributes code upstream. Ubuntu is little more than a tool for commandeering all of Linux under Shuttleworth's control.
Meanwhile, RedHat has learned the lesson of not working with the upstream developers and now funds enormous amounts of free software development. But Redhat isn't trendy, so they don't get the reignition for their contributions that they deserve.
Competition is what keeps things moving. What we need is more desktop alternatives, not less.
Let the distros managers decide which ones they use.
Chearleading for a windows-like ecology can only be advocated by somebody that is not paying attention to computing history.
As for getting laid, poor sod, talk for yourself.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
Dont you understand you jinx it when you say like that?
HTTP/1.1 400
There's no reason Shuttleworth can't deliver something on par with OS X. All he needs to do is concentrate on functionaliy, usability, and marketability, and not worry that much about ideology. I.e., the same things Apple worries about.
The market does not care how software is writen, it just cares about what it does and how it looks.
-- Slashdot: When Public Access TV Says "No"
2008 must really be the year of the Linux desktop!
None whatsoever, so perhaps there is not much need as you thing they may be?
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
Have a central Windows server and display back to your Linux workstations.
The day a solution comes you use it, in the meantime you don't really need anymore a Windows license for each desktop.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
Competition improves products, and Apple's sure not getting any competition in the design arena from Microsoft.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
-- by Moraelin (679338) on Wednesday September 10, @12:56PM
Eurohacker European paranoia, gun rights, and h
This last weekend, I had the biggest scare in the last 3 years of using Ubuntu. After downloading and installing the latest XML update for some thing, I rebooted (because I felt like it), and Gnome, my usual windowmanager, absolutely would not boot up. I couldn't even get safe-mode to boot so may uninstall the update, if that were even an option if I did get it to boot. Being that I have about 20 other options for window managers, I began logging in to see which other ones had fried in the process. Luckily, none of the other ones had bzzzt'd.
... until an xml update blew stuff up.
...
Because I've used linux for the last 9 years, 3 years of full-time-no-windows-any-more, I have come to acknowledge the unexpected, irreversible errors that have plagued me and my choices of software in Linux.
I've noticed a move towards lack of backwards compatibility for many apps along the way in the last two years. Luckily, I have only had to rebuild a Ubuntu install once, the rest of the additions have been welcomely handled by fairly painless updates (except when Ubuntu blew up xorg on every one and one couldn't boot back to an actual functioning video screen) [...]
This move away from backwards app compatibility and support was a common trend when RedHat was growing out of its diapers and moving towards being a popular, viable Open Source option. This is some thing that eventually drove me away from using RedHat, due to essentially, cutting their core users off at the most crucial time in order to expand in to a more wide reaching market in enterprise Linux.
To understand what took place on my gnome issue, I know that I trick out the desktop in such a way that any good programmer would look at me, take my machine, and say, 'nope, you are not supposed to do that, mine now'. BUT, it works, and always has
If Ubuntu plans to keep its core supporters, stuff like this just can't happen. It's a pain to have to rebuild an entire usable desktop option so I can go back to editing Astrophotography Images in DS9. For me, it's a few curse words and a lot of time.
On the other hand, consider a fresh-off-the-windows-boat user, had this happened to them, Ubuntu would lose those customers left and right, no questions asked - back to windows - because that just doesn't happen in windows. In the 10 plus years I've actually seriously been messing with computers - again, 9 of which have been Linux (the 80s & 90s don't count), I've never seen this happen with either Windows or Mac - and it better never again, or Ubuntu will be losing a long-time dedicated user because I just can't spend my days rebuilding what some "update" broke due to lack of backwards compatibility - and no subsequent follow-up bug fix has been released
I like Ubuntu due to its simplicity on the front end, yet it comes with every thing that makes Linux good under the hood. Just don't kill it for the those who have supported your efforts.
Well, if you don't mind running bleeding edge software (there may be some bugs), you can enable the backports software repository:
OR there's the easy way, using the terminal:
This will download the new beta of Flash for Linux (among other things). It's a big improvement over the previous version. Here's the documentation for the Back ports repository.
I'm going to transform myself into a mighty hawk. Either that or I'll just go and work at Dixons, haven't decided yet.
The statement was wrong overall, but there are large parts of FreeBSD 5.x code in the userland and to a lesser degree the kernel. Look at a manpage if you don't believe me. You can also look at code releases on apple's open source site.
MidnightBSD: The BSD for Everyone
I'm looking to switch to Ubuntu to get this new support to make it more user friendly. I used to use Red Hat Fedora and Open SUSE, but I think this news will help me switch to Ubuntu. That and Linspire contributes to Ubuntu from their Linspire and Freespire projects that tried to make Linux more like Windows (originally it was called Lindows until Microsoft sued them over the name being too much like Windows).
Remember, Slashdot does not have a -1 disagree moderation, and no, troll, flamebait, and overrated are not substitutes.
Offtopic? Sure. Unfunny? Arguable. Troll? C'mon now.
Would really love to see a technology such as WPF supported on Linux.
I think it would really end up in a lot of eye candies improvements, easier to develop apps, very nice programming model and good portability (as this toolkit isn't built on top of a bogus old UI system as WinForms was).
Sadly, I don't see a lot of activity in the Mono project on it.
I have no idea if Shuttleworth stands to make a profit indirectly, but certainly there seems to be a distinct lack of gratitude for a rich guy who isn't spending his time on a beach like most other rich guys.
What kind of dinosaur is still using that?
A magical liopleurodon ...Chaaarlie
Holy shit, please stop using a computer. Now.
Today's Mac OS X 10.5, Leopard, is a work of the user-interface designer art. My wife recently bought a MacBook Pro, and as I've been migrating her data and applications from her elderly XP-powered ThinkPad, I've been reminded of just how smoothly integrated everything really is on a Mac. It's like driving a top-of-the-line Mercedes sports sedan.
No you've been reminded how flashy and pretty has magically become synonymous with smooth and integration.
The actual workhorse is the BSD Unix variant hidden away where graphic designers and school children can't type sudo rm / -rf and then wonder why the prettiness stopped
The OS X user experience is anything but "smooth": between spinning beach balls, a bloated and slow window server, lack of software uninstallers, crashes, and inconsistent interfaces, OS X is basically just another desktop.
snappy
and that's how we can tell you really are a Mac user ;)
Advanced users are users too!
The plugin or the "IDE"? I haven't had any problems with the Flash plugin since Flash 9 was released on Linux (2 years ago?).
As far as the IDE, I can get CS2 to work in Wine, but not CS3. But this is what virtual machines are for.
I'm hoping Mark is referring to something like Matthew Paul Thomas' examination Empathy vs. Pidgin as the default IM client in Ubuntu. MPT did a very thorough examination of the users' experience and filed many bugs where appropriate. Projects like this could enormously help upstream, especially if patches are submitted as well. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EmpathyVsPidginUsability
This is not a troll.
It's *not* that great. It's slow, crashy and overcomplicated. It's got an ugly, messy desktop environment and it doesn't come with any decent usable software. It's got this weird browser that doesn't render stuff, doesn't have AdBlock and which usually gets replaced with Firefox. It can't play back most videos or music files without expensive shareware. It doesn't even have a usable text editor!
It's utter crap. Ubuntu is already better than Mac OSX. Please don't try to make another crappy OSX Aqua-looky-likey clone thing.
Yes. 100% agree. Almost. I also find it slow, crashy and overcomplicated.
The DVD player crashes on bad DVDs easily, often locking up the GUI. Worse if you put a DVD in from the wrong region.
The GUI is horrible at arranging large numbers of windows. It works (ish) for macos style, but really badly if you work in X11 a lot. A proper window manager (ed fvwm2) does a much better job. I hear the latest version finally got virtual desktops...
And yes, the text editor stinks. Pretty much any modern Linux comes with vim of some sort installed by default.
Media files are a right pain. On linux, it's just an "mplayer" away from working. On OSX, not so. Unless you use mplayer. Except it doesn't sync video right and you get tearing.
I agree that ubuntu is already better than OSX. I would take an ubuntu install any day over an OSX install. Not that ubuntu isn't collecting brokenness in interesting ways, but I agree. Don't make anothe macos clone. I know how and where to get the original one and I don't want it.
SJW n. One who posts facts.
OpenGL, Gtk, Qt, GNOME, KDE, bla, bla, bla: FONTS.
Put some money on developing a font system with sharp good looking fonts.
I've been using linux for years, and I can not understand why fonts appearance have not improved.
In every linux forum we all can see a "show your desktop" topic, and in most of them, regardless wallpapers, and color settings, fonts don't look good.
That's it. Let's wait for those who will replay "fonts look great on my computer, I don't know why your fonts don't look good in yours".
top of the /n.
I have actually not had a flash crash in my whole Linux experience that started when I installed breeze on 2006...
I mean, really... Is this whole stuff about flash crashing just plain hysteria? Or is it someone that happened to some guy and Linux basher everywhere just repeat like parrots?
Yeah. You might have heard of him... check out Linus Torvalds' Fedora 9 flash issue on Red Hats bugtracker, titled "youtube no workee":
Description From Linus Torvalds 2008-03-31 15:37:13 EDT
Description of problem:
youtube no workee - fedora 9 not usable for wife
Version-Release number of selected component (if applicable):
swfdec.x86_64 0.6.2-1.fc9
swfdec-gtk.x86_64 0.6.2-1.fc9
swfdec-mozilla.x86_64 0.6.0-1.fc9
How reproducible:
I didn't try a lot of videos, but I couldn't find a single one that actually worked. And what's the internet without the rick-roll?
Some just show a light gray background, some give the play buttons etc, but show only a black screen even when the red ball at the bottom moves along..
Steps to Reproduce:
1. Install current Fedora 9
2. Rick-roll!
3. No profit!
Actual results:
Some videos just show a light gray background, some give the play buttons etc, but in the latter case show only a black screen even when the red ball at the bottom seems to moves along..
Expected results:
Rick Astley in all his glory! People have reported that youtube videos are supposed to work with swfdec, so I presume they have worked at some point and have been broken recently.
Just to test that this isn't just a anti-rick-roll security feature, I also tested some other videos, but let's face it - we do need Rick for the "Full Internet Experience".
Additional info:
This is "high" priority because the wife will kill me if she doesn't have her videos. And the adobe player won't install on current rawhide due to some library issues.
"Obi-wan Kenobi, you're our only hope"
Posting AC because I already modded in this thread, but thought that this should be pointed out.
My (older) Mac has 256M or 512M of RAM. Garageband likes more RAM, and not all hardware is equal in Apple's eyes, especially since they have a profit motive to see new hardware AND software every few years.
The bigger issue is Apple's constant forced obsolescence of older OS X compatible hardware platforms.
You can get fink or other Unixy package managers and veriants of *BSD ports systems, but you'll quicly find you need certain bits or header files that you only get by installing Xcode/developer tool releases in succession.
I tried looking for Apple's X (windows) server recently, and found that the more recent installers seemed to insist on me first finding an OS X 10.1 or 10.2 installer disk, which had the original binary distribution. From there, you could download updates, but you were SOL if you wanted to use Apple's binaries and you couldn't find that 7-year old CD to start with.
There's no excuse for this kind of customer abuse, especially since X is an Open Source product.
Would that kind of behavior be tolerated in the GNU/Linux community? No.
I was working with an old dual-USB iBook with a 10G drive to start with, Mac OS X was evicted, and Yellow Dog Linux for PPC moved in
(since Ubuntu stopped doing PPC installers)
No more X worries, and the wireless worked fine.
I suspect that the next thing is I'll be forced to abandon my pre-G4 PPC hardware completely if I want to run iTunes 8 on my newer hardware. Because once you run a major version increment of iTunes on one of your authorized boxes, ALL boxes have to be upgraded to that latest major version.
hey zealot.
Though tearing also plagues Linux, I haven't seen a video card/driver setup yet which doesn't have tearing unless some of the latest Intel or ATI drivers have fixed it. I'm glad that the Intel, X, and other devs/users have brought it up, hopefully soon it'll be a thing of the past.
Promote true freedom - support standards and interoperability.
I'm now using KDE3 with Compiz Fusion and Emerald Window Decorator. IMHO it surpasses Vista and Apple already in terms of look and feel. Once I went into an Apple store, I opened Safari on one of those things and I plaid a Youtube video showing Compiz Fusion on it. Customers where crowding behind me and even the staff had a hard time pretending they're not interested! Ok, maybe the average user would have a hard time trying to install it. But then again why should we make ourselves redundant? The article forgets to mention, that Mark Shuttleworth also said that it is about making software which gets it's users laid.
I could've had a lower user number, but I didn't actually realize Slashdot had introduced user accounts until a day or two later when I noticed you couldn't just type in any name as the "by" field anymore.
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
It is obvious that Linux is catching up on the desktop. The article claims this is due to Free Software and Mark's millions. Sorry, but talk to those actually doing the work, Mark's millions are not only doing good. I certainly don't think he deserves this level of credit.
lunix has built-in anti-hacker tarball support
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
>My (older) Mac has 256M or 512M of RAM
Does it just randomly decide the amount?
One of the the things that pisses me off about Slashdot in the 21st century (besides the RIAA/MPAA/NYCL troll/flamebait articles) is the lack of technical rigor here now, especially on the part of the Apple fans here: "I don't really know how much memory my computer has, but it's cool".
How many developpers? When?
Shuttleworth is keen on paying us with intents which take years to be delivered.
He said for years he had the intent to free launchpad, and he knows says he has the intent to free it in one year.
So, how many developpers does he intend to hire on each project?
Who are those developpers?
(if they are developpers already working on those projects it won't bring much improvments, it will just focus the work they were going to do anyway in area of interrest to canonical).
How long before anything is delivered?
Will there be a true and clear roadmap or just intents and communication buzz?
An implementation of export look and feel could dramatically change things: Most Linux people spend a lot of time configuring their desktops, changing wallpapers, appearance settings, icons, metacity themes, compiz settings, skydomes, and god knows what else. Some people make their systems look like a mac, some make it look like vista, some make it look unique. I think it would be a significant leap if we could make a SINGLE (large) file container, with everything involved in the desktop settings, and send it to other users. The community could share beautifully tuned desktops, and we all could experiment with numerous desktops really rapidly. If we improve productivity in this arena, then everyone on windows would see amazing desktops, all changeable, and that's an important step towards solving bug#1. A large file could have all associated settings, parameters, needed files, and command sequences to configure the desktop in ONE click. Most newbies don't have the know how or the patience to learn how to really transform a desktop... we could give them a little instant gratification, as this is something that no mac or windows user can do.
Mac is really a religion. Lets pray Jobs-in-jeans
On another note, Last time I updated Amarok under Gnome, it did not add Konqueror! http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9070558
What, exactly, does your comment have to do with anything else in this thread? Are you just trying to take a completely random stab at Mac users? If so, your trolling is even worse than the original poster's.
Make your dialogue boxes usable on my 800x480 screen.
GTK fanboys will never allow that
That's the first time I have seen a post on /. not belonging to any department. This must be a serious one then.
He's only right about one thing - Mac OSX is for big blubbering vaginas.
I work in an office, that sells "end of life" PCs with the HD wiped (non-transferable licence).
Every time there's a "sale" I'm approached by someone asking for a "Windows disc I can use".
After I finish explaining that Windows these days is pretty tough on licencing, and it's not possible/practical ... ignoring my offer
to use one disc on multiple computers, they wander off to find someone who can help them
of a Linux install disc.
I admire Ubuntu (using it right now on this PC) and Mark Shuttleworth's willingness to put his money into it.
But Linux on the Desktop is only going to happen when Joe or Jane Average knows it exists , and can be used successfully.
Don't blame me, it's usually 2 in the morning when I post
...unfortunately, he gave up on the first two!
I only look human.
My mother is a halfling and my dad is an ogre, so that makes me an Ogreling
After all, Mac OS itself is based on FreeBSD.
I am a die-hard Mac fan and I find this offensive.
Am I the only one here who's worried about Shuttleworth's wealth? How is Canonical making money? Is it making a profit? What if Shuttleworth runs out of money, then what would happen to him and to FOSS? Is Shuttleworth getting a reward back, as he rightfully deserves?
Furthermore, why is he the one who's injecting money into FOSS? Why don't Slashdot readers donate some money to their favorite FOSS project? Is everybody so used to leeching off free work?
My daughter needs her music.
``Tension, apprehension & dissension have begun!'' - Duffy Wyg&, in Alfred Bester's _The Demolished Man_
"Desktop Linux's future is starting to look brighter."
Oh gee, have I heard this anywhere before?
--Toll_Free
Since you asked, the Mac has such a great user experience for 3 fundamental reasons: great UI design, a single, unified vision and single point of control. You might add some of the best minds in the creativity business, but many companies have those folks: it just is not rewarded or even desired.
Jobs may get a lot of bad press here, but remember that most of OUR lives have been nowhere near as influential (in good ways) or financially successful.
Regardless their faults -- and, remember, we are ALL human -- Jobs and Gates should be our heroes, not the target of unearned ire.
Though tearing also plagues Linux, I haven't seen a video card/driver setup yet which doesn't have tearing unless some of the latest Intel or ATI drivers have fixed it. I'm glad that the Intel, X, and other devs/users have brought it up, hopefully soon it'll be a thing of the past.
You are unfortunate. I have no TV, but I watch a lot of DVDs instead, on laptops.
I use (mix of work and home machines) an ancient FreeBSD 4.7 machine, with some ATI card (OSS 2D), a Dell 830 with an intel card, a D6?? with an ATi card (I've tried both OSS and proprietary drivers) and (in the past) a PIII with an Nvidia card. MPlayer works flawlessly, with no tearing.
There is always the issue of jerkiess on slow panning, since the framerate of the monitor does not match the framerate of the DVD, but the applies to any computer based system which uses an arbitrary monitor.
Seriously, I think you are unlycky or badly se tup, since I've had prefect DVD playback with MPlayer on several operating systems and over a range of hardware.
Which output driver are you using on MPlayer? Try xv (xvideo), and enable a boat-load of cache.
SJW n. One who posts facts.
Red Hat and Suse have been doing this for years. Ubuntu will never be the windows killer and neither will OSX. It doesn't mean that they won't gain market share or be better than windows. Its just the nature of the market. People will stick with what they are used to which is windows. The only way linux would take over the market is if the foss community put all their effort into one single distro, standardized packages, stood by one gui tool kit, one default set of applications per task, easy to use gui system settings and guided setup tools, used a rolling release cycle where you would never have to reinstall, change the gpl to allow proprietary drivers to link to the kernel, get the whole computer industry to switch to open source codecs, pay adobe and others to port their software or created real alternatives that people want to use and then have the OEMs preinstall it on their systems. After all that you advertise the hell out of it. Give it away on the net or ship boxed versions to retail outlets to sell. One ring to rule them all. It's not going to happen anytime soon if at all. The foss community is too divided for this to ever happen. Too many cooks spoil the soup. There are so many projects that do basically the same things just in slightly different ways. Choice is good in specialized markets. Devices designed for single tasks where the os and gui is crafted around that device. Thin clients where a only hand full of apps need to be running in a office environment or point of sale terminal. Internet kiosks. Linux is already taking over in these reguards. Maybe in ten years when Microsoft finally destroys itself, Steve Jobs clones himself and Ubuntu 28.10 Silly Sheeple gets released we can finally say that "This is the year of the Linux desktop!"
The Ubuntu (or any Linux-based kernel) distro will never, ever match the "smoothness" of either MAC or Solaris until Linus allows the changes necessary in the linux kernel for more real-time performance. Period. (He is just being stubborn, at this point) I have used Solaris (previously SunOS) since 1990 and always end up going back to it because I have never experienced anything close to how smooth the GUI (and the rest of the system) runs. I suspect mostly due to the pre-emptable kernel in Solaris. So he (Canonical) is doomed from the start. A ugly GUI with lipstick on it is still an ugly GUI... If you haven't tried Solaris 10 (free for non-commercial use) try it, you might like it, Mikey...
We know GNU does the userland - that's covered in the loon part.
There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
It may be the player, it may be the driver, not sure, but of course now I can't find tearing on one thing I try so... :P
Compiz is something that I don't think I've never not seen tearing on. Try moving a window around with wobbly windows on and you should see tearing. Obviously this will be a little harder to spot on higher end cards.
Promote true freedom - support standards and interoperability.
This was, obviously, the only logical way to go, since FOSS has clearly lost. When you compete on the basis of price, and STILL can't gain market share... the only way to go is to PAY people to use your software.
I'm guessing the 90's "dot-bomb" era is about to call Ubuntu and tell them they want their economic model back. It's a whole new New Economy! Dot-Bomb 2.0, baby!
That's really cool. I have been always wanting to get the mac os expirence in Linux. It's not too far now. God bless ubuntu