Did I? Because GNU also said "We do, however, call our $1 coin a loonie". I took this to mean that Canadians, in general, refer to the coin as a loonie. And then the implication would be that Americans, in general, refer to individual bills by president name (which I don't believe to be true).
If I did misread his comment, then his analogy is not very apt; why compare general Canadian culture to specific subcultures in the US?
I never said rap invented it, just that no one else in the US really refers to currency by the president shown on it. At least that's my anecdotal experience.
This is much like Americans who often refer to specific denominations by the name of the president pictured on it.
I don't know if I would say Americans do that "often". In fact, about the only time I've heard that is in rap like, "it's all about the Benjamins", and he wasn't even president.
One might even say you are a loonie for suggesting such at thing:)
Yes it is difficult to see 'em as embodying blameless unfortunates when they are using pictures from the films in their publicity literature, et al... That is just welcoming trouble.
"its not like anyone actually wants to be a fat wheezy alcoholic"
Sure, but people love to eat tasty things and get a buzz. Point is, I think there are plenty of people that society might label "addicts" that are just fine with their addiction level. I am concerned with society imposing its will on individuals even more than is already the case.
I am all for the existence addiction-curbing products to help those that want to quit; I know it is hard.
"...just affects the criminal's future ability to enjoy heroin, and nothing else. He would be exactly the same person in the future, just without any heroin enjoyment"
For a true heroine addict, removing the enjoyment of heroine is not leaving them "exactly the same" and affecting "nothing else", because heroine has become pervasive to who they are. One could argue that it just returns them to their pre-heroine, "good/clean" state, though I am not sure that would be true. But one could also argue that it changes them for the better vs. being an addict, and that's probably true overall (in the heroine case).
But yes, we are talking in different directions. You are saying this one case is okay, I am worried about implications. Like a "gateway" drug, this could be a "gateway" punishment, which is the only reason I am being devil's advocate.
It is the forcible administration of the shot that is the greater violation. A shot to avoid 10-20 years? Yes, I would take the shot in such a case. Others may not choose the same and I would like to preserve their ability to choose.
I am also worried about future implications. I think most people would take the heroine shot, but that's just what is (possibly) possible today. Will we soon have different drug usage (or other behavior patterns) we will be able to curb?
My main point is just this: An individual's mind/nervous system is possibly the most personal thing they possess, and from my perspective forcible permanent alternation of its state is something akin to rape. I am not of the mind that serious criminals have the same full set of rights as non-criminals, but there are limits to what should be inflicted on even the worst people.
Incarceration is a terrible thing and I am sure it often changes people in a negative way, permanently. Maybe it is worse than changing someone through chemical means. We've never had the ability to study which is "worse" until now.
Despite its horrors, the fact is that prison has been the most accepted means of punishment by society for a long time. Perhaps that is only because the technology required to build a "cage" is so low. We definitely should be exploring new options, so this kind of research is in the right general direction. Still, I am not sure I will ever be comfortable with a punishment system based upon forcible permanent mind alteration, and it certainly isn't something I think we should be leaping to embrace.
I wouldn't say you were all that careful with your qualifications initially. You said "caught committing a crime while addicted to heroin". Not "criminals" or serious crime.
But qualify further, by all means - you definitely sound more reasonable now. I still disagree with your main point, which is that it is a lesser violation of their "natural" rights. It may be a more convenient solution for our society, though.
Instead of attacking the heroine aspect, examine this from a more objective stance. What is your (society-perceived) vice and who has the right to take it away from you?
Imagine a day where insurance companies can deny you coverage because you haven't had the "cigarette/alcohol/fatty-foods vaccine".
Jail sentences are usually not for life. Perhaps we should also just castrate sex offenders instead of jailing them?
I am ok with giving an offender the option (maybe vaccine instead of jail time or fore reduced jail time), but forcing a person to permanently destroy a conduit of pleasure sounds too Clockwork Orange-y for my taste.
I order from Amazon very often. I have never received an email from them pushing merchandise. Perhaps you haven't set your account preferences accordingly.
I thought this was old news, and that the millions she made were revealed to mostly be through "virtual prostitution" of sorts?
And that when some folks found out about her having an interview within Second Life, they hilariously griefed her.
Your credit score can be negatively impacted simply by being a victim of identity theft and/or having fraudulent charges posted to one of your accounts (even without "real" negative repercussions such as you not paying bills you were not even aware of).
Oops, meant to bold the second part. Disputing charges (whether fraudulent charges or legitimate charges made by you to vendors which did not follow through on delivery of purchased goods/services) can negatively affect your credit score.
Your credit score can be negatively impacted simply by being a victim of identity theft and/or having fraudulent charges posted to one of your accounts (even without "real" negative repercussions such as you not paying bills you were not even aware of).
The rationale is that you, as a customer, may frequently engage in "risky" purchasing behavior which makes you a more likely victim of these crimes. Sort of like how your car insurance can go up if you get into an accident through no fault of your own.
If you only have one incident there will be low or no impact, so this PSN fiasco is not going to ruin your credit score overnight. But who knows what financial issues you will go through in the next few years? (It seems like these breaches are occurring pretty often, of late.)
Source: I worked for a debt collection agency for a few years.
On the off chance that I did not just succumb to a troll, why are you so set against pursuing possibilities?
I never said it would happen. I said I am not interested in living with your mindset that it won't.
Lead those that seek complete understanding of the universe, follow those that have the strength to carry on, or get out of the way and live in your reality. We aren't worried about those that already know everything. I do not know if space does or does not hold a place for us, just as I am not going to fool myself into thinking that I know whether there is or there is not a god. If that makes me a moron then, well, let's just say we would be standing at opposite sides of the room at any party we might happen to both attend. I think your side will be having a lot more fun, certainly!
Life at sea is not a cake walk. If you think so, you obviously have never spent any non-trivial time on a boat. With the limited technology of the time, undertaking such journeys was "moronic". Sure space is worse, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't try. The thrill of the hunt, the challenge. If you don't feel it, what can I say?
I am not sure how carved metal is much different than carved trees. Perhaps one day our descendants will look back and will be amazed that we could accomplish what we have without "Future Technology 42".
I am sorry that we could not accomplish whatever would satisfy your expectations within half a century. I guess incremental progress is worthless since you won't live to enjoy the full results?
We do have an entire universe on Earth to study and learn about. I think we should definitely focus less on actual immediate space travel and more on longterm education. But you might want to read the writing on the wall; the Earth just isn't big enough for the two (hundred billion) of us.
I am sorry I riled you up to the point of incoherence. Or maybe you can explain why you feel that nerds/geeks are scared to learn how a cell works? There are plenty of us that are interested in understanding life. The implicit grammars involved in DNA are damn well fascinating for a automata "Nutter" like myself.
In summary, stop being such a stick in the mud. Oh, and maybe you could control your slavering insults. Although, again, I should know better than to be attracted to the primary tool of the troll.
Why did the chicken cross the road?
Why did people ever bother to sail across the barren wasteland that is the ocean?
Living without dreams is not something I am interested in. It has nothing to do with hope; it is about discovery and magic.
To address your comments regarding lack of "real" technological advances over the last decades, you glazed over perhaps the most promising area of future progress: biotech. IT (which you admitted is improving quite readily) will make cracking the DNA code far more feasible. With the ability to rewrite life (and ourselves) from the ground up, meaningful space exploration could become quite attainable. Who says we will still need to breathe or eat; why not absorb solar power directly?
I am sorry that you can't go in your garage and grow a human with wings yet, but a native in the rainforest can't create a bicycle with sticks either. Why should he waste his time trying?
Slashdot Mirror
Yes, such a strange Americanism - despite the phrase originating around the 13th century!
Hopefully it will allow you to tell time when you glance at it.
PBF is the best; great reference!
It's like nature's musical chairs... OF DEATH!
Did I? Because GNU also said "We do, however, call our $1 coin a loonie". I took this to mean that Canadians, in general, refer to the coin as a loonie. And then the implication would be that Americans, in general, refer to individual bills by president name (which I don't believe to be true).
If I did misread his comment, then his analogy is not very apt; why compare general Canadian culture to specific subcultures in the US?
I never said rap invented it, just that no one else in the US really refers to currency by the president shown on it. At least that's my anecdotal experience.
This is much like Americans who often refer to specific denominations by the name of the president pictured on it.
I don't know if I would say Americans do that "often". In fact, about the only time I've heard that is in rap like, "it's all about the Benjamins", and he wasn't even president. :)
One might even say you are a loonie for suggesting such at thing
Yes it is difficult to see 'em as embodying blameless unfortunates when they are using pictures from the films in their publicity literature, et al... That is just welcoming trouble.
"its not like anyone actually wants to be a fat wheezy alcoholic"
Sure, but people love to eat tasty things and get a buzz. Point is, I think there are plenty of people that society might label "addicts" that are just fine with their addiction level. I am concerned with society imposing its will on individuals even more than is already the case.
I am all for the existence addiction-curbing products to help those that want to quit; I know it is hard.
"...just affects the criminal's future ability to enjoy heroin, and nothing else. He would be exactly the same person in the future, just without any heroin enjoyment"
For a true heroine addict, removing the enjoyment of heroine is not leaving them "exactly the same" and affecting "nothing else", because heroine has become pervasive to who they are. One could argue that it just returns them to their pre-heroine, "good/clean" state, though I am not sure that would be true. But one could also argue that it changes them for the better vs. being an addict, and that's probably true overall (in the heroine case).
But yes, we are talking in different directions. You are saying this one case is okay, I am worried about implications. Like a "gateway" drug, this could be a "gateway" punishment, which is the only reason I am being devil's advocate.
It is the forcible administration of the shot that is the greater violation. A shot to avoid 10-20 years? Yes, I would take the shot in such a case. Others may not choose the same and I would like to preserve their ability to choose.
I am also worried about future implications. I think most people would take the heroine shot, but that's just what is (possibly) possible today. Will we soon have different drug usage (or other behavior patterns) we will be able to curb?
My main point is just this: An individual's mind/nervous system is possibly the most personal thing they possess, and from my perspective forcible permanent alternation of its state is something akin to rape. I am not of the mind that serious criminals have the same full set of rights as non-criminals, but there are limits to what should be inflicted on even the worst people.
Incarceration is a terrible thing and I am sure it often changes people in a negative way, permanently. Maybe it is worse than changing someone through chemical means. We've never had the ability to study which is "worse" until now.
Despite its horrors, the fact is that prison has been the most accepted means of punishment by society for a long time. Perhaps that is only because the technology required to build a "cage" is so low. We definitely should be exploring new options, so this kind of research is in the right general direction. Still, I am not sure I will ever be comfortable with a punishment system based upon forcible permanent mind alteration, and it certainly isn't something I think we should be leaping to embrace.
I wouldn't say you were all that careful with your qualifications initially. You said "caught committing a crime while addicted to heroin". Not "criminals" or serious crime.
But qualify further, by all means - you definitely sound more reasonable now. I still disagree with your main point, which is that it is a lesser violation of their "natural" rights. It may be a more convenient solution for our society, though.
It is the OP's "forcibly administered" that I take issue with. Voluntary options for reduction of sentence is more tolerable.
Instead of attacking the heroine aspect, examine this from a more objective stance. What is your (society-perceived) vice and who has the right to take it away from you?
Imagine a day where insurance companies can deny you coverage because you haven't had the "cigarette/alcohol/fatty-foods vaccine".
Jail sentences are usually not for life. Perhaps we should also just castrate sex offenders instead of jailing them?
I am ok with giving an offender the option (maybe vaccine instead of jail time or fore reduced jail time), but forcing a person to permanently destroy a conduit of pleasure sounds too Clockwork Orange-y for my taste.
I order from Amazon very often. I have never received an email from them pushing merchandise. Perhaps you haven't set your account preferences accordingly.
Are you really that stupid? We don't want our self-destruct tech falling into enemy hands!
I thought this was old news, and that the millions she made were revealed to mostly be through "virtual prostitution" of sorts?
And that when some folks found out about her having an interview within Second Life, they hilariously griefed her.
Exit the age of the computer virus. Enter the age of the computer fungus!
Your credit score can be negatively impacted simply by being a victim of identity theft and/or having fraudulent charges posted to one of your accounts (even without "real" negative repercussions such as you not paying bills you were not even aware of).
Oops, meant to bold the second part. Disputing charges (whether fraudulent charges or legitimate charges made by you to vendors which did not follow through on delivery of purchased goods/services) can negatively affect your credit score.
Your credit score can be negatively impacted simply by being a victim of identity theft and/or having fraudulent charges posted to one of your accounts (even without "real" negative repercussions such as you not paying bills you were not even aware of).
The rationale is that you, as a customer, may frequently engage in "risky" purchasing behavior which makes you a more likely victim of these crimes. Sort of like how your car insurance can go up if you get into an accident through no fault of your own.
If you only have one incident there will be low or no impact, so this PSN fiasco is not going to ruin your credit score overnight. But who knows what financial issues you will go through in the next few years? (It seems like these breaches are occurring pretty often, of late.)
Source: I worked for a debt collection agency for a few years.
You aren't liable for fraudulent charges.
Maybe not, but your credit score sure is.
I can't see the Eiffel Tower from where I am sitting, either. It must be at the size limit that the human eye can see unaided. My claim stands.
On the off chance that I did not just succumb to a troll, why are you so set against pursuing possibilities?
I never said it would happen. I said I am not interested in living with your mindset that it won't.
Lead those that seek complete understanding of the universe, follow those that have the strength to carry on, or get out of the way and live in your reality. We aren't worried about those that already know everything. I do not know if space does or does not hold a place for us, just as I am not going to fool myself into thinking that I know whether there is or there is not a god. If that makes me a moron then, well, let's just say we would be standing at opposite sides of the room at any party we might happen to both attend. I think your side will be having a lot more fun, certainly!
Life at sea is not a cake walk. If you think so, you obviously have never spent any non-trivial time on a boat. With the limited technology of the time, undertaking such journeys was "moronic". Sure space is worse, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't try. The thrill of the hunt, the challenge. If you don't feel it, what can I say?
I am not sure how carved metal is much different than carved trees. Perhaps one day our descendants will look back and will be amazed that we could accomplish what we have without "Future Technology 42".
I am sorry that we could not accomplish whatever would satisfy your expectations within half a century. I guess incremental progress is worthless since you won't live to enjoy the full results?
We do have an entire universe on Earth to study and learn about. I think we should definitely focus less on actual immediate space travel and more on longterm education. But you might want to read the writing on the wall; the Earth just isn't big enough for the two (hundred billion) of us.
I am sorry I riled you up to the point of incoherence. Or maybe you can explain why you feel that nerds/geeks are scared to learn how a cell works? There are plenty of us that are interested in understanding life. The implicit grammars involved in DNA are damn well fascinating for a automata "Nutter" like myself.
In summary, stop being such a stick in the mud. Oh, and maybe you could control your slavering insults. Although, again, I should know better than to be attracted to the primary tool of the troll.
Why did the chicken cross the road?
Why did people ever bother to sail across the barren wasteland that is the ocean?
Living without dreams is not something I am interested in. It has nothing to do with hope; it is about discovery and magic.
To address your comments regarding lack of "real" technological advances over the last decades, you glazed over perhaps the most promising area of future progress: biotech. IT (which you admitted is improving quite readily) will make cracking the DNA code far more feasible. With the ability to rewrite life (and ourselves) from the ground up, meaningful space exploration could become quite attainable. Who says we will still need to breathe or eat; why not absorb solar power directly?
I am sorry that you can't go in your garage and grow a human with wings yet, but a native in the rainforest can't create a bicycle with sticks either. Why should he waste his time trying?
Lead, follow, or get out of the way, my friend.