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Jon Katz' "Geeks" Goes Hollywood
ChrisCrosby was the first
to notice that Hollywood Reporter has a story about our own Jon Katz' soon-to-be-released book "Geeks" being picked up by New Line Cinema for a feature film. Lawrence Bender (producer of Pulp Fiction, Reservoir Dogs, Good Will Hunting and more) and Laurie Bickford are producing. I'm really excited for Jon, and I just wanted to congratulate him: He's been working so hard on this, and the parts of the story that I've read have been really wonderful. And Hemos and I get cameos! Now since Bender has produced all of Quentin Tarantino's films, wouldn't it be fabulous if
he directed this?Update: 01/14 04:09 by H : BTW, the actual book is available for pre-order through ThinkGeek. Check it out.
Jon Katz, A Perspective Trolls | Posted by AC on 2000-01-13 23:23:12
from the moderate this!dept.
Trollmastah writes:
How often have you read Jon Katz, King Troll himself, with thoughts like a drunken man staggering along the street! His ramblings are soiled now. His ego is bruised. His articles and books are dull. Sometimes he curses the posters that tease him. Sometimes he tries to smile in an insincere effort to placate pitiless, childish cruelty. His thread, worn out, can stand no more, and he receives his flames and mumbles that he is going home.
The karma whores persecute him, throw flames at him, laugh at him, and slam him. Seemingly intelligent grown men and women, too, often laugh with the karma whores, nudge each other, and actually find humor in the sight of a human being sunk below the lowest animal. The thought of a broken man writing should make every other man sad and sympathetic. And horrible as the sight is, it should be useful, by inspiring in those who see it a determination to avoid and to help others avoid that man's fate. That reeling author is living flamebait.
He is writing to karma fanatics who seem to flame of him, to a community whose posts have made him miserable. He is writing about although always off-topic, his ideals, taking with him the worst curse in the world - to suffer bitter remorse himself after having inflicted suffering from those whom he would respect And as he goes on writing to an audience of men and women, knowing what the publishing means flames.
In the old days in the arena it occasionally happened that brothers were set to fight each other. When they refused to fight, they were forced to it by red-hot irons applied to their backs. We have progressed beyond the moral condition of human beings guilty of such brutality as that. But we cannot call ourselves civilized while our imaginations and sympathies are so dull that the reeling troll is thought an amusing spectacle.
This is a great thing for Jon, everyone deserves a break once in a while, the guy is not that bad. Leave the flames at home.
A: There are two negative comments moderated to (Score:5, Troll) on a story about him!
It's weird, neither of those two comments has Troll listed in the moderation totals... Makes you wonder how they got that way.
*snork*
You better not quit your day job!
Did you fail english class, or what? Or have you not had english class yet...
Gawd, what crap!
And what did we learn in school today? REVENGE.
as far as this "Unauthorized Access" movie, IMDB has no listing of it. Is it as funny as Hackers was or is it another lameo movie that took itself seriously? How totally boring if it was.
I thought is was rather accurate and thought out.
Criticizing someone is NOT trolling! He posted his opinion, and it's a negative opinion about Jon Katz, that's perfectly fair. If it was a negative opinion of M$ it would get moderated up.
"Be Concise!: Why subtitles are usually superfluous fluff that really belongs in the dust jacket blurb."
Then perhaps Jon's writings will be a bit more readable to the AC's who are constantly hacking at him.
(I like JK. I agree that he's too wordy, though.)
Katz has a college-aged daughter!? Whoa... I wonder if she's a geek.
...it's unseemly, kids.
That's why it took so long for the next Roger Avary movie.
/. every day!
He is busy being AC posting hot grits posts on
no actually i'm young, jolly and happy with my life. I just think it would be pretty funny.
geeks with guns?
and you call me bitter?
It was just a joke, maybe if you could laugh at things you wouldn't need that gun. Actually, you sound like you are old, bitter and unhappy with your life. I bet you have a small penis, thats why you like guns so much.
hey remember, guns dont kill people, people kill people. But I'm sure the guns help.
Are we now going to be misrepresented to the nation at large by Katz? The damage is becoming less and less localized...
There is no such thing as right and wrong, there is only fun and boring.
Yeah, RISC is good.
Oh cool man! It even has a twenty-eight point eight bee pee ess modem!
So what's he do? - Thats it, you're looking at it, he just looks slick all the time.
Pool on the roof must have had a leak.
You'll like it here, it's the city that never sleeps.
Otherwise known as the ugly pink shirt book, because of the guy on the cover wearing the nasty pink shirt.
The Dragon Book, compiler design.
LUCCCCCCCCCCCCCYYYYYYYYYYYyyy!!!
My name is THE PLAGUE . - Ok, uhm, Mr. Plague, I think we have something down here you should check out, I think we've got a hacker.
Yeah, gimme garbage. Garbage.
Wow, deja vu! What are you waiting for?! Arrest me already!
TRUUUUUUUUUUUUUCCCCK!
GOD wouldn't be up this late.
What, this isn't woodshop class?
God gave men brains bigger than a dogs so they wouldn't hump womens legs.
Who are Razor and Blade? - They're leet man!
anyways, you get the point. this movie rocked hardcore. keep it as cool as this and you'll have a hit. i wish they'd make a hackers 2... argh. and you gotta get that hot chick who played kate libby (angelina jolie?) and get her buck ass naked in it.
(BTW - I read the article about the two guys. On the one hand, I didn't get why they didn't stay in Idaho or Utah, which both have great hightech regions [as has been noted here]. On the other, I did relate to being the outcast, and using computers as the escape. I live in LA, and [back in the 80's] there weren't many computer geeks around, at least not in the less affluent parts of this area.)
pi?
Oh, those french bastards...
something has to be wrong with moderation. the poster actually proposes shooting people. This post is worse then its parent. Something is about as wrong as my grammar.
ps. Jesus was black.
Linus Torvalds naked and petrified!
Does anyone know how to turn living flesh and blood human beings into stone? I would really really like to turn Linus Torvalds into a statue, naked of course....
Thank you.
Maybe Katz could get Disney to produce / direct it.
Although Jon Katz seems to be well educated, his written skills leave something to be desired...One get's[sic] the feeling that he does this to boost his already inflated public image...
You shouldn't use an apostrophe there. I can't trust your opinion on Jon's writing when your writing skills certainly seem lacking.
I guess you just couldn't wait that long to post this article, eh?
'Cause I'm sure as hell cut out for the part!
Check me out:
* Geek experience: Math major. C/C++, Java, Python, Perl, Assembly, Brainf*** (for fun). I run Linux, OpenBSD, BeOS, and (at times) NT. I study crypto, and I hack around with small microcontrollers for fun. I'm the real thing, Jon-- who better to play a geek than a geek?
* Geek appearance: Glasses, jeans, t-shirt, a watch that doubles as my little black book (plus another one that has a voice recorder). I ranked rather well in Nitrozac's "Look-alike Contest" when entered as The Geek. I look like a geek, but I also clean up well-- not prom king material, but it's good enough to keep girls from laughing at me when I walk up to them.
* Acting experience: Started a theatre group at my school. Commercials. Convinced my boss that my project *really is* close to completion the other day. Very involved in community theatre.
* Willingness to adapt to the part: Shave my head, or grow my hair waist length? Contacts? Lose/gain weight? Change my hair/eye color? Wear shoes to make me look taller? You got it.
* Salary: I'll work slave wages if you want. I'm also willing to accept multi-million dollar contracts.
You're always the one that wants the little guy to win. When your book *does* get made into a movie, you'll have the chance to help the little guys out. You've said enough times that being unconventional is good, and I, for one, agree (most the time, anyway). So put your money where your mouth is, and do some unconventional casting-- hire a geek like me.
So, Jon, what do you think? Respond if you want my e-mail address (if just to tell me I'm an idiot).
Gandhi, you fool! Not Ghandi! I see that mispelling so frequently, it's probably going to become "accepted use". History and the English language, marching backward hand-in-hand to the lowest common denominator. *sigh*
Only problem with Lain is the wimpy ending. If you can call it an ending at all. I sincerely wish I hadn't bought the 4 DVD set....
and maybe Anthony Michael Hall and Judd Nelson as Jesse and Eric! p. :-)
Dah, it was MEANT to be tongue in cheek, and it's one of the funniest and most enjoyable movies ive ever seen. It's a cult classic with any weenie who 'grew up on a commodore' - feh!
Movies that can do this with so much tongue in cheak rock my world. Hackers is one of my fav movies of all time right next to Bladerunner, Aliens, Star Wars, Monty Python flicks, and err.. hmm... Thats about it, all other movies stink.
"Multinational corporations are evil. Capitalism is evil. Globalism is crushing indiginous people. Why yes, I'll sign that big, fat movie deal."
>I've also broken bones
You own or someone elses?
My favorite scene is going to be when the geeks get beat up by the jocks, and then the geeks get older and get rich. Then the jocks beat them up again anyway.
My favorite scene will the be one after that... the one where the rich geek hires the mob to, ahem, "acquire" the jock and deliver them to a special laboratory... Too bad that in order to recieve an "R" rating the ensuing vivisections won't be shown on screen very much. The jocks' screams will be a pleasant sound, though.
I read the article. Its claims seemed well considered and and substantiated. Perhaps I'm not the most qualified to comment though.
OK, now I can accept your cameo ;)
no i'm actually a geek. I dont know.. i just think it would be funny. Some irony in it. Maybe i just have a sick sense of humor. Maybe you have to have some imagination.
The thing is, when i was in high school, i never saw a geek being beaten up. The only time i saw people being pushed into lockers was the Wonder Years. Now i did see the occasional pratical joke or sometimes some teasing. Now i know that hurts, but shooting someone because they called you four-eyes is not justified. Also when you stood up for yourself, people would lay off or accept you.
Most of these kids who bully are really the ones who need help. Either they get beat up at home or feel totally insecure about themselves. If you just sit there and take it, they will keep on doing it. From your posts you prolly got picked on alot and didnt do a thing about it. And now you are really angry at yourself for not standing up for yourself. So you redirect your anger at the bullies, you have so much anger you want to shoot people. I feel sorry for you.
Maybe you should come to terms with your anger instead of shooting guns and hating jocks. You have lots of problems which you need to resolve.
I'm so glad hollywood is still upholding it's longstanding policy of upholding mediocrity. Jon Katz has marginal writing skills. Any screen play by him probably panders to his idea of what a "geek" is. I'm sure we can all remember his oh so lame articles comparing geek culture to ANYTHING that happens to be in the news that day.
cat in german.. He's like catbert. you can't escape the torment
This upsets me to no end. Why do we have to pay for the book. Why can't Jon Katz show some real "altruism" and make the book available to everyone on the web for free! Let's practice what we preach.
Why am I expecting to see Kevin Mitnick (or someone portraying him) make an appearance in the movie.
If there's anything Jon Katz does... it's pander.
creativity in writing != cramming random adjectives in for no apparent reason The first sentence, while cliched, doesn't induce quite the same level of nausea as the second one. I'll thank you to refrain from "creative" writing on public forums in the future.
Pulp Fiction was good, but from what I have seen of him he is acts like a cocky high schooler who has not grown up yet. I have heard about his past, and he should be greatful of the opportunities that he has had, because he could STILL be a desk clerk at the local Blockbuster.
Corrinne Yu naked an Petrified, ye-ah!
are you hot?
There's a movie I wouldn't miss ;)
you think having a gun will solve your problems? all a gun is gonna do is end up causing more trouble. You going to pull a gun on a cop that is giving you a hard time? You gonna pull a gun on someone who is robbing you? This isnt the wild west.
also, dont you think the bullies are people too? I'm sure they have their share of problems too. Now of course i think its wrong for them to pick on people and get away with it. My school must have been drasticaly different then yours. No matter who you were you got punished for what you did. We had our share of fights... even a stabbing but we never had groups of so called drug/jock kids.. who preyed on "geeks".
If you want things to change, you have to get down to the root of the problem. Which is most likely our society. We are not tolerant to people who are different, we are arrogant, the list goes on and on. You think guns are going to solve this? Hey, if you can carry a gun, so can the jocks. Geeks with guns doesnt solve one thing.
What i've found is that one should come to terms with people who have mistreated them in the past. They were just kids and didnt know any better. I know it doesnt make it right for what they did.. or heal the wounds they inflicted. But hate just carrys more hate. It is much better to forgive and understand.
Straight outta the linked HR article:
"It looks as though America Online's merger with Time Warner may have already had an effect on New Line Cinema. The Time Warner division has logged on to "Geeks," optioning Jon Katz's unpublished nonfiction book "
New Line is owned by Time Warner, who will soon be part of AOL. So I guess our heroes will be krad l33t warez traderz who sit at their machines eagerly awaiting the soothing tones of "You've got mail". Can't wait for the official /. endorsement of AOL.
Didn't Katz rant about the AOL / TW merger the other day? I wonder what his position on AOL is now. Expect soon "Synergy and vitality in open minded corporatism: or How I Learned to Love AOL" the new Jon Katz slashdot column.
The funny thing is most of us in about two years time will be saying, as "Geeks" is sold in bookstores across the U.S. - "Hey man, I was into thinking Jon Katz is lame way before you were! I'm so underground I'm on vinyl!
You read slashdot, Mr. Avary? You just keep getting cooler and cooler in my book - so please, please direct another movie, us people who enjoyed the last one have been waiting a long time. By some odd coincidence I saw your webiste yesterday - damn cool for a filmmakers' site, except that webcam reminds me of Chris Walken's messed up writing habits in the movie of Communion.
So I can moderate down all the trolling and flaimbait that seems to get pushed up to 5, somwhow.
I almost never agree with Katz, but at least I can be happy for the good fortune of somebody else.
Moderation points are to be used to moderate up posts with thought. Not to moderate up posts that you agree with.
If you just want to sit there and bash somebody else, go do it on USENET or IRC, thats what they are for.
What I was trying to point out is that the way Jon Katz presents his ideas is trite and not creative. One of the many so-called "no-no's" of writing is the use of cliches. Cliches are, by definition, trite. An example of a cliche is: "Tears streamed down her face". You could rephrase this to make it non-cliche: "Tears spasmed over the boundaries of her eye lids, cascading down the trecherous terrain of her face". Do you consider the second one more creative? I do.
Reject it, Jon, its just not ethical or moral!
pretty amazing that this fucking hack can get a movie deal.
I'm not sure how they can come up with enough foul language associations with Slashdot and Linux, but I have faith that they will.
I can't wait.
it will be too long, drawn out, and make no sense. Also, dont you have to be famous to make cameos? Admit it rob and hemos, you guys are not famous. Also when people start doing cameos it means their acting career is soon over. My favorite scene is going to be when the geeks get beat up by the jocks, and then the geeks get older and get rich. Then the jocks beat them up again anyway.
You must know something I don't, because I didn't see anything with the vaguest details of what this film is about (other than the title :) -- What is so cliche about it, and where did you get the detailed info?
Read After Y2K - they have almost constant cameos. http://www.after-y2k.com
I was wondering where one would audition for this prized and glamous role?
I can just imagine the casting call...
***SHUDDER***
Yeah, I was wondering about this recently. I remember seeing the audio book version of Microserfs a while ago, and it was read by Matthew Perry. The audio book said that a movie was coming out soon. That was about 1 year ago. Hopefully it wont be turned into a "Friends" movie, since I assume that Mr. Perry will be starring. *shudder*
I for one if I had a good enough computer would never leave my house only for the most basic of necessities.
Hahahahahahahahahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaawwwwwhahaha! AAaaaahahahahahahaha! Oh gawd, you kill me. Please, no more!
Not only that I can't really see a logical group (which I assume most of slashdot is) would actual type of thing. Logic is the norm of the universe so says chaso theory.
Say what? I told you to stop! But no, I didn't mean it. Please, explain exactly what you mean by that. I am terribly curious. And what exactly is your chaso theory?
Maybe Jesse an Eric can be made into foul mouthed, smart talking geeks with guns! Maybe geeks will be the new hip, cool dudes of hollywood.
OK, I already checked the box to exclude stories posted by Katz. Please /., implement a checkbox that excludes stories about Katz too. Seeing his name turn up on the front page has totally ruined my day, and I would be pretty sure that's the case for all the rest of the people that have this exclude checked. BTW, I would love to know just what proportion of the /. readership has this checked, and some demographics would be cool too, though I know its not in the database.
Well I have never "bitch slapped" or cut off ears of any person but I find that a good slap to the computer is always refreshing. As for cutting off the ears, I have gutted several computers to various degrees.
But in the end I agree that Quentin is not a good pick. I think that a directorial debut of John Whorfin and shitface (it is only a nickname) would make for one great movie.
Real men dump cores! Read my journal, I am neat.
cmdrtaco
Real men dump cores! Read my journal, I am neat.
hemos
Real men dump cores! Read my journal, I am neat.
Oh my god- I would hate to see the seen in Pulp Geeks where the one geek is ass fucked by the other.
Real men dump cores! Read my journal, I am neat.
Well knowing how uncomfortable geeks are supposed to be around women why not cast porn stars for all the female roles. It would not be like real life but it could encourage more people to the world of Geekdom. Besides Howard Stern had a ton of porn stars in his movie and it was a huge hit.
Real men dump cores! Read my journal, I am neat.
He can barely find the power switch to a computer.
You can forget about him even thinking about doing this project for a nanosecond. My guess is that Lawrence is smart enough to know that there's a number of other directors who understand geek culture better. Besides, Quentin is busy doing other things.
-Roger Avary (Academy Award winner for "Pulp Fiction", Director of "Killing Zoe", and daily /. reader)
Can I be in the movie to post some annoying first posts?
McDougal the Llama
Geeks will never be as intelligent as Lain. I don't think Hollywood would be capable of producing something that in-depth without screwing it up somehow.
I, for one, am QUITE tired of the bragging that goes on with the admins of this site. I want to read NEWS, not the simple musings of the admins opinions, or how they get to have a cameo role in a movie I'm not going to see. Big fucking deal, show me the news, or shut up. You're admins, not celebrities. Stick with what you're good at, running SlashDot.
I think you'll find killing Piggy doesn't make people love you.
Sucks to your ass-mar.
Oh that's just great. A bunch of overpaid underskilled Hollywood wankers are going to tell the world how to pigeon hole me with the help of Jon Katz, the man who tried to make out that religious software was evil, can't use a computer, and generally has not the slightest idea of what it meant to grow up with a Commodore64 as your best friend, and then spend your fun filled college years playing muds and usenet when it was still good, and before the goddam www screwed the whole lot up.
I can't friggin wait. It'll be full of 'wild 'n' wacky' characters who are growing up in a bright shiny future where their skills are so in demand and they are the great young revolutionaries of the brave new world with exciting paradigms for a new millenium.
hurt maim destroy
Still, compared with the crap we've endured so far from 'hackers' and the like, I'm sure it will be great in comparison.
-----
Right On! Katz's article was ridiculous. He went looking for a couple of downtrodden "geeks," in some hick place, and the fact that he could back-hand the Mormons clinched the deal.
I especially liked the part where our heros make fake IDs.
After all, that can't be geeks if they aren't using their computers to BREAK THE LAW.
I think you're being much too hard on FascDot; his comments are in no way "out of line". So, you have a nice conversation with Katz and he won you over; good for you. If other people choose to see him as a self-promoting hypocritical one-note-johnny media whore using a parasitical relationship with some young impressionable guys to grab the brass ring of big media recognition (whew) you should consider that possibly there's a good reason for it. Because that's just what he's doing. If he thought pets were in the desirable teen-twentysomething demographic necessary to get big media exposure he'd be writing about poodle culture, not geek culture.
And for your information, I haven't been an angry adolescent in decades. Or maybe I'm not a geek at all. Hell, when I was a tech at your lovely university's Plasma Physics Labs we programmed micro-sequencers, ran fiber optics and built trackballs from scratch so we could instrument the reactor. Geeky enough? But then we all took off Fridays during the summer, loaded up the gun club with beer and visiting co-eds and got laid once in awhile. As Zappa once said: It's fucking great to be alive. So you'll pardon me if I don't buy into Jon's gloomy navel-gazing vision of the "geek" world he can never really know.
Is that a bad enough attitude for you?
The revolution will NOT be televised.
Wasn't one of the complaints about the AOL/TW merger the issue of a media company reporting on itself? And now we have SlashDot reporting on... "our Jon Katz"? Can't wait for the movie review. Or the SlashDot product placement in the movie. It'll be great for corporate branding. Oops... I said a baaaad word.... Yes kids, the revolutionaries become the establishment, every time. Same as it ever was, same as it ever was....
The revolution will NOT be televised.
Judging by today's movie length standards, it'll be more along the lines of 3 hours of the slowest thing you've ever seen, with a shitty, meaningless ending.
thanks.
--[shangodee]
I can tell that this movie will be unique, and the total opposite of the Hollywood standard! How exciting! Finally, a movie that will accurately portray geeks, a movie with no stereotypes or dumbed down plots!
I could not justify my existence if I were a turkey farmer. Would I terminate myself? Undoubtably, yes.
I second that.
Everybody seems to have a very strong opinion about Katz. I think he's a lousy author. Others love his writing. I haven't a clue as to why, but I can't argue with their dollars.
I'll have to give one of his books a read some time. They simply can't be as bad as his columns. Can they?
The tone makes it seem like there *may* be a movie. Lots of movie studios buy the movie options on lots of books/screenplays every week. I dare say that most never end up on the screen. But wouldn't it be cool to see the /. effect on Loews or Hoyts? :) JLEWIS
This sig washed every five years whether it needs it or not!
When Katz started out here he was a perfect example of a person who wanted to infiltrate the "geek" culture. He didn't know $#^+ about Linux and he misquoted himself time after time. Shortly after he start posting at Slashdot, Rob added the ability to ignore all articles written be selected authors (thank god).
I was one of the many that pretty much choked on every article that he wrote and I wanted to get him banned as an author here, but it now seems that Katz and Rob were in cahoots.
This is a really sorry state of affairs for Slashdot. They've effectivly sold out and I have lost tons of respect for them.
Q: Now that Katz has gotten his "inside scoop", can we finially ban him from the system?
--
Steven Webb
System Administrator II - Juneau and TECOM projects
NCAR - Research Applications Program
Besides, anyone who knows anything about Hollywood, knows that most screenplays don't even make it to production.
Malachi
"Life is all about strategy, mathematics and psychological perceptiveness."
Indeed! Seems *very* convenient that Katz hangs around Slashdot for awhile, writes a book/instant movie about Geeks, and now CmdrTaco and Hemos get the payoff for Katz's squatting.
well, JK is part of a mainstream and a larger industry, which is why he only "sort of kind of" fits on slashdot. he's never hidden that; he's fascinated by geeks, but not a geek himself. considering where he comes from, i'm not *too* surprised that his book got picked. i'm glad for him, but i don't think i'll care enough to see the movie if and when it comes out.
We'll be fighting in the streets
With our children at our feet
And the morals that they worship will be gone
And the men who spurred us on
Sit in judgment of all wrong
They decide and a shotgun sings the song
I'll tip my hat to the new constitution
Take a bow for the new revolution
Smile and grin at the change all around
Pick up my guitar and play
Just like yesterday
Then I'll get on my knees and pray
We don't get fooled again
I'll move myself and my family aside
If we happen to be left half alive
Get all my papers and smile at the sky
Tho' I know that the hypnotized never lie
There's nothing in the street
Looks any different to me
And the slogans are replaced by the by
The parting on the left
Is now the parting on the right
And the beards have all grown longer overnight
Make the new boss, same as the old boss
--Pete Townshend
Poor little clams! Snap! Snap! Snap! Poor little clams! Snap! Snap! Snap! Poor little clams! Snap! Snap! Snap!
A few months ago Jon Katz was the Arch Enemy of the movie industry. If you go back and read his posts you will see that unless the film was made on stolen film stock by hipply dressed college students it was a afront to the intelect of all right thinking citizens.
Well now the table sare turning and Jon Salieri Katz is becoming the center of his own hatred. I cant wait for the article from Katz's MS Word driven creativity to hit slashdot.
"Voices From Hollywood, Geeks FOR $ale"
In it he will interview kids who saw the movie and were harmed by its blatant consumeristic messages. He will ride the author, himself, for being a tool to the white power base that hold down everyone.
Yes, Katz will be profiting not only from the film he will be giving himself more things to pontificate on. He will become the selfperpetuating Crumudgeon.
I cant wait for Katz to hit the silver screen. I m sur it will do well, in fact I pray that it does better than Titanic. I can think of no better reward for Katz then to become the great mass marketed hero of the Geeks. Relegated to live in a world he so depises it will be both his just reward and his self made cell.
So heres to Jon Katz, lets all hope he make sit big soon.
Poor little clams! Snap! Snap! Snap! Poor little clams! Snap! Snap! Snap! Poor little clams! Snap! Snap! Snap!
Shit, don't scare me like that.
You should have put a warning on that.
;)
This sig is false.
Jesus...these complaints are almost as bad as the ones about the millenium not starting until next year. Hollywood fucks up lots of things, it just so happens that you know about computers so you can see how wrong it is. Remember that movies are meant as ENTERTAINMENT. Personally I have no interest in seeing someone using vi (or Emacs) on the big screen.
That being said the best protrayal of copmuters in film that I remember is Real Genius. Besides Hackers of course.
Scuttlemonkey is a troll
Okay, I recall the "Geeks" story. It seems to me it's been in print before, but I can't recall where. Anyone seen it before?
They end up in Chicago, livin' la vida malo for a while and finally get hired and then things turn around. Nice heartstring tugging story... really. One of the five archetypal stories (Horatio Alger style).
Anyway, did Katz originally do this in a Wired or Time mag? And besides the obvious draw for wonderful artistic license (not the Artistic License Perl has) with Hollywood dramatization, do we really need another Rags to Riches story (only this time ala Geek)?
This will not go down as one of the top ten geek movies. Those spaces are reserved for classics like Tron, Wargames, Sneakers, The Matrix, and the original trilogy, etc.
Maybe this movie will bolster public opinion that geeks are people too, but I'm going to say that they still want action like the nefarious identity thief in The Net (a movie that has no doubt influenced Katz greatly).
In short, Katz has continued to follow the rules set by many English teachers. And no writer can become great until s/he can understand those rules to a point where s/he can break them.
ALL HAIL BRAK!!!
Congratulations, Jon. And congrats to all you geeks. I promise not to beat you up anymore. Unless the movie sucks. Then I'll beat you up and take your lunch.
----
"Oh, bother," said Pooh, as he hid Piglet's mangled corpse.
...is there a Slashdot check-box that we can tick so that we don't have to watch the movie?
:-)
(For the humour impaired, please note the smiley)
--
The gift of death metal does not smile on the good looking.
Yeah many hoops first... not even shure a movie will EVER be produced...
But I hope it dose and it dose well.
Yes I am a Katz fan but byond that I'd like to see OTHER Geek titles make it to the movie screen.
After Y2K the Movie.. based on strips from 1-1-1999 to 1-1-2000.. only instead of the alternet universe ending (that lets the commic continue) a happly ever after ending...
Sluggy Freelance The Movie.. A unique storyline made exclusively for the movie... Live action and lots of specal effects... exposions.. show off that lazer cannon... I wonder who'd play Riff and Torg...
"Let me check my notes"...
My suggestion.. go with all NEW tallent... no stars... hunrgy actors who have proven themselfs in theator for a long time...
User Friendly the movie: No opinion.. I stopped reading the strip but it dose have the cult folowing needed for a big cashin movie.. as long as Illiad retains artistic control it's shure to retain the charm that makes it populare and make it a smash hit.
Keven and Kelly/Heardthiners: The Movie
Animated with Bill Kean in artistic control...
There are HUGE ammounts of strips that would made a sucessful move to the movie screen... a few that wouldn't...
I don't think GPF would make a good movie for example simply becouse it's life is an ongoing commic strip. It's GREAT as a strip. You want to folow the lifes of the carricters...
But for a movie it wouldn't work.. The storys arn't that intresting themselfs.. it's all the ongoing plots.. the stuff that never really resolves itself.. that makes GPF.. That stuff won't translate to a movie becouse the movie ends.. But GPF storys never really do end... The cult of the twisted pair is still around.. the Pookel/Ki storyline is still going.. Fred is still a profesor, Trudys still around... etc... It never ends just stops for a while and lets annother story resume. Dosn't work for a movie format but for a commic strip it's pritty smart.. and addicting...
Sluggy more than the rest sence it's just an ongoing action movie in commic strip form.
I wonder what Goats the movie would look like... ohhh....
I don't actually exist.
You want Tarramtino to direct this?!? Are you mad?
/. readers.
/. readers being violated.
How many Geeks "bitch slap" people? How many of them cut off ears? Taratino is a loser and I think would violate anything of vague interest to
Actually, he probably would actually show anything of vague interest to
Uhg, no thanks.
I love your articles. Glad to see your book turned into a feature film! Your hard work, and unique style are deserving of a film treatment. Lets hope the film treatment is true to the book :)
Take a look at the last ST movie for an example of what you should *not* do
And what, pray tell, is that? bore your audience to tears? Make jokes about klingon puberty? Make 'boob' jokes? Make Troi and Riker amorous again? Waste millions of dollars on a dull movie?
I guess I answered my own question.
Expect it from an odd numbered Trek movie
Lowmag.net
Why dosen't Slashdot use some of the money they are now rolling in and hire some interesting columnist. A weekly column from Neal Stephenson or Bruce Sterling would be better and much more sincere than the trite, "me too" junk that Katz puts out.
...the treacherous terrain of her face...
What is it about her face that makes it so treacherous for the tear? I mean, I'd rather read "tears streamed down her face" then what you wrote. If you want to be creative how about: "It couldn't be true, she told herself, feeling the warm saline on her cheeks"
"Suble Mind control? why do html buttons say submit?",
ReadThe ReflectionEngine, a cyberpunk style n
Who has had a greater positive effect on the computer world? Linus, obviously. But that doesn't mean Katz's work is any less valuable.
So, Linus has done more Then Katz. And yet Katz has not done less then Linus? I think there is a hole in your logic there...
"Suble Mind control? why do html buttons say submit?",
ReadThe ReflectionEngine, a cyberpunk style n
I agree with you.
and to emphasize your point: How can your well thought-out comment score a 3 and a post labeled TROLL get a 5?
what's going on here? We will just have to wait to see if the movie sucks or not. Regardless, this IS newsworthy and I would be interested in seeing it.
Gahhh... stop taunting me... my copy of Lain is still on hold at dvdexpress until my BGC boxset comes in :((( *grumble*
----
Dave
Purity Of Essence
- Dave
He's a clueless hack. I thought filtering out his articles in my Slashdot preferences would ensure I'd never hear about him again. But no, no, it's great that he's found an outlet for his work where journalistic standards are low enough that proper spelling and college-freshman-level compositions gain him such wide-eyed adoration. Anyway, Jon, with the movie maybe you'll be able to quit the day job... for a while.
Do you know something about this book/movie that the rest of us don't? I only ask because all that I know about either is that it's a nonfictional account of two people from Idaho who meet over the internet. That's _really_ vague. The only movie that I remember that this even remotely resembles is "You've Got Mail", which better reminds me of "Sleepless in Seattle".
I can't say that watching a couple of lonely geeks using usenet and e-mail makes for an intriguing plot, though. Nevertheless, I hope that I'm underestimating it.
-Jennifer
I said:
The only movie that I remember that this even remotely resembles is "You've Got Mail", which better reminds me of "Sleepless in Seattle".
Then you said:
Well that's really not that interesting at all. Geeks by their very nature are not lonely but are a social amalgm between computers and humans. I for one if I had a good enough computer would never leave my house only for the most basic of necessities.
I didn't mean to imply that I thought "Geeks" would be like "Sleepless in Seattle". Rather, I meant that I could only think of one movie that even remotely resembled "Geeks", but not very closely.
I wonder if you truly would be happy to never leave the house if you could help it (providing sufficient computer support of course). There are some experiences that can't be made up for on the computer, such as a change of scenery.
Reminds me of a short story we read in high school. I think it was called "The Bet" by Saki. It's about a banker and a lawyer who make a bet that the banker can remain devoid of human contact for twenty years. If he succeeds, the lawyer will give to him a large fortune. The banker isolates himself in a specially built room. It is equipped with all of the finer things in life and he has plenty of reading material. The room is not locked and he is perfectly free to leave if he wishes, but he will lose the bet. Servants are able to provide meals and laundry through a special door that prevents contact. The banker lasts all the way up to the last day, but the isolation has deeply changed him. With just hours to go, he leaves the room.
I know that it's not quite the same thing, but I think there's something to be said for living life, rather than reading it.
-Jennifer
Contrary to what may have been inferred from my post, I am very uncomforatable dealing with others, sometimes to the point of bringing on anxiety attacks. I even find internet conversation to be a little intimidating, so I do understand the line of thinking. But I leave the house to try to relieve boredom. It's certainly not to interact with others. Rather, I like to walk through the woods and look at the trees (or if I'm in the city, walk through the streets and visit hole-in-the-wall shops or museums). I've found that there's alot that one can do solitarily, even in a crowd.
My apologies if anyone construed my post to mean that I was telling them to "get a life". Defining your life is a very personal thing and no one has the right to tell you what should or shouldn't be in it. To clarify what I was trying to say:
Reading is one way of experiencing life. There are many other ways to experience life that can make it much fuller. These ways shouldn't be written off lightly.
-Jennifer
-----------
"You can't shake the Devil's hand and say you're only kidding."
Implementation Language:
Oliver Stone's Natural Born Killers style editing even better - the pillow book - 2 hours of anamation - aname&rendered - interleaved with still shots and straigt film
Design Patterns:
use metaphors for technological triumphs. perhaps mars pathfinder, linux 2.0, AZT and the coctail, etc. watching someone code is really boring. using grapical or action metaphors for the coder(,physicyst, whatever)'s extreme cleverness could be really usefull.
Many external refrences to Monte Python, the Hitchhikers Guide, Pi, etc.
Time based recursion - as seen in resivoir dogs & that backwards sienfeld.
Lots of characters, like in slacker.
implementation notes:
use the hacker techniques throughout the film. consider scrolling the entire kernel source down the left hand side of the screen throughout the move.
use lots of pictures to clarify things - if your talking about nanotech put one of nasa's .mov's of spinnig atomic gears in a corner. if you talk about light, show one of those cool anamations with the vectors changing magnitude in a wave(you'll know it when you see it...)
try not to worry to much about actualy telling a story - just make a geeks dream film - not that it shouldn't have a story, just don't let that get in the way of looking cool. giving the impression of recieving To Much Information is much more important to this movie.
Throw in some shots of space ships blowing up (trust me).
perhaps you should consider portraying the caracters as they'd like to appear. i know more than a few geeks that want the chrome eyeball look.
consider showing the world as it would be - from gibson or stepensons eye - the future that never was sort of a feel, overlayed on the world as it is.
i'd pay to see it.
To me, that actually is scary...
Greetz SlashDread
If Tarantino is gonna make it, heres the flic's title :
"Geeks with Guns"
"Pulp Geeks"
"Reservoir Geeks"
eep..
Greetz SlashDread
I've read the Rolling Stone article, it won't fly, Hollywood will make some changes. Really, 100 minute of watching geeks play with computers?
Jesse and Eric will be good looking, but too caught up in the thrill of hacking to get chicks.
They'll crack into a highly guarded computer and find a dangerous plot against the USA, hatched by Dr. Evil.
They try to alert the authorities, but the only ones who believe them will be a young, bodacious FBI agent in Chicago (played by Christina Ricci). Unfortunately, in doing so, they alert the minions of Dr. Evil.
They try to make a break for it from Boise to Chicago. One geeky girl who has a thing for Jesse (played by Natalie Portman), comes along.
They have thrilling adventures. Midway to Chicago they hook up with the FBI agent and have more thrilling adventures, with helicopters, gun play and fighting. They have sex with the geeky girl and the agent.
They get to Chicago and foil Dr. Evil's plans.
If you want particular's, let my agent know.
George
Hate to tell you but Tarantino did NOT do the Star Wars / Pulp Fiction spoof films. They were done by a total no-name graphic designer guy with a penchant for gay humor and Star Wars figures.
Will this movie be, I dunno, mostly "talky" like British sci-fi? Will this be as talky as Lars Ulrich in a Metallica Interview? Or will it be a modern day 21st century tale of Chicken Little(from "The Digital Sky is Falling") and The Open Source Boy who cried Capitalist Wolf? We may never know. Reminds me, what ever did happen to that Takedown movie that Skeet Ulrich was going to star in that Emmanuel Goldstien screamed and yelled about to stop?
Well, if you want to know what Jon Katz looks like, you can go to the library and look at his picture in one of his novels. I won't try to describe what he looks like, I'm not up to the task...
All the creatures will die, And all the things will be broken. That's the law of samurai. (Jubai, 1605)
Another thoughtful Geek anime is Wings of Honnemaise, but it is about space geeks not computer geeks. Still, space geeks are important (well, to me anyway). Oh, and perhaps the ultimate anime-geek movie is Otaku No Video, the anime equivalent of Trekkies.
All the creatures will die, And all the things will be broken. That's the law of samurai. (Jubai, 1605)
Of course, Otaku No Video isn't about computer geeks, but it is about "outsider culture" and technically obsessed kids. This ends my commercial for Otaku No Video ^_-
All the creatures will die, And all the things will be broken. That's the law of samurai. (Jubai, 1605)
I was able to get an advance reader's edition in November and I enjoyed the story.
I am not so sure how well the book will be as a movie. ( intro: 2 geeks playing Quake for 20 min... ) Even if it is done well the story might not hold the public's attention for very long. I can only hope the movie will remain true to the ideas in the book and not cave to the desire of the company to pander to the LCD to make profit. ie. make the stroy overtly emotional and silly
On second thought, John's involvement in the book and how he helped( read book ) could make for a good story. But then it wouldn't focus on the 2 geeks.
I can't really see the book as a movie. I'll just wait for it to come out in theaters.
NEW LINE CINEMA
presents
Geeks
adapted from a novel by
Jon Katz
- Katz Sucks (Score: -1, Flamebait)
--- Re: Katz Sucks
--- FIRST CREDIT YEAH!
- phR15T CR3D1T! (Score: -1, Troll)
--- Not even close
--- F1RST!!!!!!!!
staring
CmdrTaco
Hemos
- That's Starring, idiots (Score: -1, Flamebait)
--- Hemos must have written that
--- Re: That's Starring, idiots
----- Re: Re: That's Starring, idiots
- First Credit? (Score: 0)
- OPENSOURCE YOUR ACTING, TACO! (Score: -1, Flamebait)
--- Re: OPENSOURCE YOUR ACTING, TACO!
- CMDRTACO NAKED AND PETRIFIED (Score: -1, Flamebait)
---
Tempfiles fugit.
We've been used. Katz used his faux-fame to become a favored child of Slashdot, pretended to "get it", and will now profit by stereotypically profiling, from a sophisticated distance, the very people he has supposedly befriended.
Do you ever watch TV news and wonder exactly how they get those trailer-trash people to make themselves look so hilariously bad on-screen? Now you know. Only this time, we'll be the target of this old-media derision. It makes me sick.
Carefree highway, let me slip away on you.
>Do you know something about this book/movie that >the rest of us don't?
Well, I don't know about him but I think I do. It's not about two geeks meeting over the internet. It's about two geeks that lived in the small town in Idaho that picked up moved to Chicago and got good jobs. There was a plot synopsis posted somewhere.
Non gratis rodentus anus
Hemos : I could sure use some nachos.
(Pearl Jam music kicks in)
Cut to interview with Taco : "Hemos sure wanted some nachos."
Cut to interview with Worf : "Hemos didn't realize that he was *really* gettin' down on my Klingon Ancestors when he asked for those nachos."
back to scene : Hemos "I just remembered I left some under the couch."
(Pearl Jam fade out, Backstreet fades in...)
Jack Valenti and the MPAA are to technology as the Boston strangler is to the woman home alone
Not likely. Kevin has stated publicly (and repeatedly) that he has no desire to direct anything he didn't write.
------
I know generalizations are bad(in general? ;) but I would think that there is a certain level of arrogance that goes with American movie making.
;)
I think it would be a hard thing for a community that has had the title of "best" and "leading edge" to (or at least believed they had that title) start taking tips and pointers from other "lesser" communities.
After all, didn't we take the Godzilla storyline from Toho and make it into the best blockbuster that genre has ever seen?
*pause for snickering and all out laughing to subside*
Leno made the comment along the lines that Hollywood just made the big lizard quicker...did you see how fast it went to video?!?
As far as I know, Toho is still trying to get the bad taste out of their mouths. In defense of the movie though, Godzilla(the monster) looked great, IMO.
Jackie Chan is allegedly the biggest superstar to hit the far east...his fan base is HUGE, yet he said it was virtually impossible for him to break into Hollywood. Of course, Michelle Yeoh's "Wing Chung" still ranks very high on my list and she made it into a Bond film...
Kiki's Delivery Service and Princess Mononoke are ground breaking because the give the notion that maybe cartoons aren't just for kids...of course, this has been the case off shore for a long time.
My favorite comment while watching PM was a parent's saying, "Hey, this isn't like Pokemon!"
My only real gripe about PM, in fact, was that the violence seemed to lack some of the gore. But that isn't the case, I got that impression merely from the scene where they guys' head and/or arms were shot off cleanly with an arrow such that there wasn't any blood spurting. There was plenty of gore when it came to the spirit animals and I really do need to watch the movie again. (so no flames please
Would I love for Hollywood to shy away a little from their mainstream "blockbuster cookie-cutter?" Yes, I would love more adult based shows that don't have to go through this sanitizing first. Its almost as if all "adult" humor needs to be tongue in cheek....*sigh* I would love to get up Saturday mornings to catch an episode of Ranma 1/2....
Ack! I'm cutting into my gym time...gotta go!
Have a great weekend everyone.
-Vel
I'm probably missing the joke but isn't it MST3K?
:)
I will agree though...Minnesotans would rock as moderators! (personal opinion there
I seem to have read more negative comments than positive. JonKatz is a good writer, he makes good points. It seems to me that a lot of the slashdot community thrives on making miserable comments. Too bad. A lot of people here don't like Katz and continue to say so everytime one of his articles is posted. However I have yet to see any of you anti-katz people post anything better.
Also about the cameo brag. Who cares? Big deal, after all it is major bragging rights. I would if I had a cameo appearance in a movie. Most of you would too even though you say you wouldn't.
In short kudos to Jon Katz, getting a book published and a possible movie deal are a major accomplishment. Keep up the good work!
Quid rides ignare?
This explains why Katz is still around, I guess.
Furthermore, this proves that Katz understands Geeks the same way that Speilberg, Geffen and Katzenberg did when they acquired both Bill Gates as well as Paul Allen as partners.
Reports of Bill Gates' behavior in the presence of Speilberg, Geffen and Katzenberg is that he shifts from a "hard drive" alpha geek into a beta geek.
Amazing, the enormous sociosexual status acquired by hiring some blonde whores and selling them back to their home towns on a silver screen.
Seastead this.
And maybe that's good, because then we can get back to being people for a change. :P
Thank you. All this geek nonsense is making me sick.
Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken - Tyler Durden
Usually I just ignore people with bad attitudes. Really, I don't feel it's my place...
a rd guy down the street. /. just don't care.
Thanks for telling us about yourself before diving into the real meat of your writing. You must idolize Katz.
[Katz] has done more to help geeks and the "geek cause" than anyone I've ever heard of.
What has Katz done to help the 'geek cause' (journalist buzzword)? Why don't you give examples? Is this really more than, say, Linus' contribution to 'geeks', or haven't you heard of him?
[Your] posts... are... problems with the moderation system.
Spend a whole paragraph on a personal attack against FascDot and his karma? What a waste of time.
Now I've had another glimpse into the dark side of the geek....
You *are* Jon Katz! Admit it!
This is the whole reason Katz is rejected here. No programmers I know of run around yapping about 'geek culture'. I never even hear the word 'geek', except out of that lamo NT-hugging couldn't-write-Hello-World-in-BASIC-without-a-wiz
Katz likes geek culture, and you like geek culture. Most programmers and people on
I think you'll find killing Piggy doesn't make people love you.
Who cares? Are you totally out of touch? Take your romantics somewhere else. 'Geek culture' (journalist buzzword) isn't about love at all, it's more about information and problem solving. Bill Gates isn't operating out of love. Linux wasn't open sourced because of love. Windows Rebate day wasn't done out of love. FascDot isn't posting to become 'loved'. He certainly doesn't care to please everyone, as evidenced by the 'goodbye 70 karma'. He's posting to present new opinions (however brash) and generate discussion. You, on the other hand, are posting to: talk about yourself, give an unsupported claim of Katz's benevolence, and veer offtopic only to personally slam FascDot. I hope you feel love.
I in no way stated that "'Geek culture'" is about love. I said that picking on Katz, being a bully, will not make people love you.
/. just don't care," is patently untrue.
My point was that this audience values new ideas more than love. Bashing Katz may not win friends, but FascDot presented a new idea, however cynical, and *that's* what is valuable. Don't discourage it.
Slashdot is a bad medium for personal relations. IRC is good for that. On a community board like this, posts are made and seen by thousands of people, many anonymous, and a relavent post with fresh ideas is something everyone is looking for. I certainly hope slashdot doesn't turn into offtopic 1-1 discussions littered with smiley's and inside jokes, like many of my favorite newsgroups. People come here (i think) for informative articles and informative discussion. No other place I've seen offers it like slashdot.
FascDot's post may be harsh, but it's informative, which is what's most important to this audience. That's why it's not about love, and why even a rude post can be valuable.
your statement that "Most programmers and people on
Well, I guess this is just opinion against opinion, unless one of us has statistics to back it up.
Notice there are many fewer CmdrTaco and Hemos bashers, even though there is much more opportunity to slam them. Katz must be doing something different: people aren't bashing just to bash people, or they'd incessantly flame other targets, such as Hemos or Stallman.
My opinion is that progammers know what their lives are like better than Katz. Hearing him write long essays about this subject is like trying to listen to dial-up tech support tell you something you already knew, but taking a half-hour to do it. Many readers here don't care for that.
Yeah! Now that would be a true *geek* movie. Funny as hell, too. And waaaaaay to true to life.
Except replace the MST2K crew with a bunch of guys resembling the comic book store owner from the Simpsons, and you've got it dead to rights.
And then maybe throw in Jay and Silent Bob...
lf.o
Say what? I told you to stop! But no, I didn't mean it. Please, explain exactly what you mean by that. I am terribly curious. And what exactly is your chaso theory?
simple transposition of the letters 's' and 'o' "chaos theory" is ther term you are after.
Slashdot social engineering at it's finest
You forget, Ving Rhames has played a geek before.
Well, he tried to play a hacker in Mission Impossible at least
forge
This looked ok in the preview, but it would apear as if the paragrph, bold, and close link markups got deleted. My apologies for this data-train-wreck post.
_________________________
Geeks with Guns, or hicks with computers?
*and to emphasize your point: How can your well thought-out comment score a 3 and a post labeled TROLL get a 5?*
Well, for a couple of reasons:
1) moderation is handed out sort of like a watery tart holding a rusty sword out of a lake at passerby.. IE.. not a solid form of government, but less dangerous than outright anarchy.
2) even trolls can moderate, provided the electron god smiles on them that day and they have a login.
3) some people exist to do NOTHING more than bitch about everyone else on the planet, and they do it with fair regularity.. stands to reason some people who can moderate share their feelings, and moderate them up for that.
*shrug*
I try to use MY moderation points well when I get them...
Maeryk
Feminine Protection? What is that? A chartreuse flame thrower?
*no actually i'm young, jolly and happy with my life. I just think it would be pretty funny.*
Ahh.. so beating people up is FUNNY, (long as its not you, I guess) but defending yourself is a sign of a small penis?
Are you a legislator in the states or a school administrator by chance? Sounds like you fall right along the current lines of "as long as you are only stuffing people in a locker, you dont fall within our punishment area, but if you threaten to defend yourself, you will be arrested"
Sorry bud.. but I WAS the geek that got his arse kicked in school cause I wore glasses, etc.. I didnt appreciate it then, I dont find it funny now, and I totally missed the "humor" in your joke, whereas I was dead serious in what I said.
Feminine Protection? What is that? A chartreuse flame thrower?
*The thing is, when i was in high school, i never saw a geek being beaten up. The only time i saw people being pushed into lockers was the Wonder Years. Now i did see the occasional pratical joke or sometimes some teasing. Now i know that hurts, but shooting someone because they called you four-eyes is not justified. Also when you stood up for yourself, people would lay off or accept you.*
Being called four eyes is quite a bit different from having to have your glasses replaced every six weeks because someone broke them for you. Course, the school district simply says "sorry.. at teacher didnt see it, so there is nothing we can do".. that is part of where the bitterness comes in. Plus the fact that the chosen ones in school really ARE the sports players.. and that kind of bites, doesnt it? I mean, you are there to LEARN, right? so why do the ones that LEARN usually get the most crap?
*Most of these kids who bully are really the ones who need help. Either they get beat up at home or feel totally insecure about themselves. If you just sit there and take it, they will keep on doing it. From your posts you prolly got picked on alot and didnt do a thing about it. And now you are really angry at yourself for not standing up for yourself. So you redirect your anger at the bullies, you have so much anger you want to shoot people. I feel sorry for you*
They dont need help, they need to be beat up so they know what it feels like. Im sure your school was different from mine, but in my area there werent enough geeks to get them together to stop the jock/drug boys from causing trouble. If you beat them up, they simply found you in greater numbers and did more damage.. it was almost a no win situation.. however, again, the school district would claim "we didnt see it", "we dont have enough proof" (I guess stitches and bloody noses and teeth thru lips wasnt enough proof) and also "Johnny needs to start at the homecoming game, and if we put him down for disciplinary action, he wont be able too, so you can see the situation this puts us in, right?"
That is the basis of my belief. that the people who can GET AWAY with this crap in school go on to get away with it in later life, as cops, principals, coaches, whatever, and the cycle repeats itself. You, as a network admin, really dont have the opportunity to put a hurting on people.. your hands are tied by corporate policy, but there are a number of jobs available to those who want to foist their opinions and physical will on others, and, not surprisingly, those jobs cater to just that kind of mentality. THAT is where the cycle renews itself, and that is what has to be stopped.
NO ONE should be calling ANYONE four-eyes in school.. its as plain as that.. and until insulting someone openly, or knocking them down is treated with the same seriousness that threatening to bring in a gun is, things will never change.
(after all.. they are BOTH "only" words right? so how come one of em is considered a terroristic threat and warrants arrest?)
*Maybe you should come to terms with your anger instead of shooting guns and hating jocks. You have lots of problems which you need to resolve*
Oh, I have come to terms with it, and its not anger.. it's just the desire to protect myself from predatory humans who learned that role in school and still use it as adults. I dont *want* to shoot anyone, I dont *hate* jocks.. I DO hate the mentality that "might makes right" (and before you bring it up, self defense is NOT "might") and I am fully prepared to KEEP myself from getting assaulted or beat up or robbed ever again. I went thru that already, and as long as the rights of people to defend themselves are eroded in favor of the rights of someone to beat up/rob/hurt/threaten you, it will keep happening.
/end rant.
Maeryk
Feminine Protection? What is that? A chartreuse flame thrower?
*you think having a gun will solve your problems? all a gun is gonna do is end up causing more trouble. You going to pull a gun on a cop that is giving you a hard time? You gonna pull a gun on someone who is robbing you? This isnt the wild west.*
On a cop, no, on someone robbing me? quite possibly, if htey have a knife.. I would also hope that if someone SAW me being robbed they would have the forethought to intervene, as I would for them.
I FIRMLY believe that "an armed society is a polite society" I also believe the statistics that show that a higher weapon carry rate in a locality results in a lower crime rate.. you are not going to mug or attack someone if you think they might have a gun, its as simple as that.
*also, dont you think the bullies are people too? I'm sure they have their share of problems too. Now of course i think its wrong for them to pick on people and get away with it. My school must have been drasticaly different then yours. No matter who you were you got punished for what you did. We had our share of fights... even a stabbing but we never had groups of so called drug/jock kids.. who preyed on "geeks". *
I pretty firmly believe you have about 18 years to learn how to fit into society. I believe if at the end of that 18 years you have not yet figured out that beating up people and stealing things, and abusing people simply because they are different is wrong, you dont belong in society. Telling me that "bullys have rights too" is absolutely barking into the wind.. I dont believe it now, and I didnt believe it then. I firmly believe you have the right to THINK what you want, and to a large extent SAY what you want (yelling fire in a movie theatre is an example of a non-covered event) but your right to free ANYTHING ends at the tip of my nose. Once your "rights" to be a punk interfere with MY rights to go about my life in an orderly manner, you give up those rights.
*But hate just carrys more hate. It is much better to forgive and understand.*
I have not even thought about the *specific* people who did this in years, so its not a "forgive and understand" thing.. but Im not about to forgive the punks who broke my windsheild last week, or stole the stereo out of my car last month.. that is, to me, unforgiveable, if you want something, work for it, as I did, rather than take it away from me. I think until people begin to stand up FIRMLY (and possibly lethally) for their right NOT to be abused, it will continue, and THAT is the root of the problem.
Im not saying guns solve everything.. its much more of a mindset issue.. you are far less likely to get mugged if you look like you are confident and sure of yourself than if you are furtive and touristy, but I really TRULY believe there are people in this world who exist ONLY to cause pain to others, and frankly, the world would be better off without them.
THis is my opinion.. but Im entitled to it, as you are yours.
Feminine Protection? What is that? A chartreuse flame thrower?
If Katz's book has been optioned for a movie, that doesn't mean he will have anything to do with the screenplay if/when one is written. The eventual movie may use his story, or the basic ideas of the book, or it may bear no resemblance to Katz's work at all.
--
I'm guessing that your post was ironic/sarcastic, right?
W S B Even now that I'm dead I write better then that Kitty Katty dudeWSB
Even Tarantino couldn't make a film about Geek's cool.
Sure he could. Just exchange the words "foot massage" with "USB Scanner" (or something else techie) in the Pulp Fiction dialogue and you're half way there!
W S B I could have been a pretender...WSB
I would agree with you to a point, but we are all made up differently. I am in total agreement with him, myself. Yes, perhaps once a week, I'd like to go out for a couple of hours, but even then it would only be to window shop for cool new toys or to catch a movie. I detest having to go out in public; I hate having to wander about with strangers, and worse yet communicate with them in person. I am very antisocial, and while my mother-in-law considers it a fault, it suits me just fine, because it is what makes me happy.
:)), so its not an issue of taking the time or effort to go out and do things, I simply don't want to deal with other people on a one to one basis. My apologies to all those who cannot comprehend that way of thinking, as it seems to upset many of you greatly that there are those of us who feel this way. (That last wasn't targeted at you, Jennifer, but to the world at large :))
You said, "I know that it's not quite the same thing, but I think there's something to be said for living life, rather than reading it." So if I were to find a way to never have to leave the house; i.e. work at home, have everything delivered, etc. then I wouldn't really be living life? In "real life", I am extrodinarily bored dealing with the world around me. I am rarely in a good mood when I'm out of the house. But when I'm at home, spending time with my wife and daughter or sitting at the computer, I am usually happy, or at a minimum content. I would argue that my overall quality of life, much like the poster to whom you responded to, would actually improve if we did not have to deal with the outside world on a physical basis. I certainly understand your point of view, but I also understand that it is your point of view and has absolutely nothing to do with the way that anyone else thinks or feels.
To be honest, I envy you and everyone else who enjoys getting out and meeting people, because that's how society is set up. So when you have to go run an errand, its all good because you felt like getting out of the house for while anyway. But some of us aren't built that way, so having to go to work, to the store, etc. is just an uncomfortable situation that we'd rather not be forced to deal with. I'm not a lazy man (well, in some cases..
Deosyne
Shouldn't this be under Katz instead of Movies? How many topics am I gonna have to block out?
prel -e 'echo "Just another bad perl hacker./n"'
I can see I'm really going to enjoy this discussion. Your post brought a smile to my face and lightness to my heart. I sincerely hope you reply to this.
a rd guy down the street. /. just don't care."
/. just don't care," is patently untrue. (You can make a bald assertion, so can I. Now where did it get us? Try to back up your statements with some reasoned arguement.)
."
/.'s operation wholly because he knew that they would not retaliate, and he would gain some misdirected respect because of it.
"Thanks for telling us about yourself before diving into the real meat of your writing. You must idolize Katz."
You're welcome. No, I don't idolize Katz, but I do like the guy.
"What has Katz done to help the 'geek cause' (journalist buzzword)? Why don't you give examples? Is this really more than, say, Linus' contribution to 'geeks', or haven't you heard of him?"
I believe I mentioned that you should read the book. Linus gave a nice os to everyone, and for that I thank him from the bottom of my heart. It was a great thing, but that's wholly different from what I'm talking about (which I should think is rather obvious.) Katz has tried to help individual geeks by being a counselor of sorts to many, many people who wrote to him after the Littelton tragedy. In addition, his Hellmouth articles have done a great deal for the young geek community. Who has had a greater positive effect on the computer world? Linus, obviously. But that doesn't mean Katz's work is any less valuable.
"Spend a whole paragraph on a personal attack against FascDot and his karma? What a waste of time."
I was feeling a bit vitriolic. Perhaps that was overboard. I wrote that part because the reason Fascdot told us about his karma was so that we would all think his statement (and he, himself) was worthwhile. I believe he was also trying to garner some sentamental support for himself, like Jesus Christ betifically turning up his hands and saying "Look, I bleed."
"You *are* Jon Katz! Admit it!
This is the whole reason Katz is rejected here. No programmers I know of run around yapping about 'geek culture'. I never even hear the word 'geek', except out of that lamo NT-hugging couldn't-write-Hello-World-in-BASIC-without-a-wiz
Katz likes geek culture, and you like geek culture. Most programmers and people on
Perhaps you should care. I'm a physicist by trade, and I'm personally watching the results of similar disinterest in the scientific community. Now we've got the religous right removing evolution from the school and replacing it with prayer sessions, and the postmodernists are doing some *really* horrendous things. I think there is hardly a single group of people more falsly portrayed and even demonized by the popular media than geeks and hackers. We need some language of discourse (and facility with that language) by which to describe and understand ourselves, or we can't even begin to hope to make others understand.
Additionally, I think your statement that "Most programmers and people on
"Who cares? Are you totally out of touch?. .
Please try to follow along here. I in no way stated that "'Geek culture'" is about love. I said that picking on Katz, being a bully, will not make people love you. Groups often define themselves by who the exclude. They often feel cohesion only in that act. I was trying to say that this is not a healthy way to be. It does not achieve the ends it hopes for. Again, I should think that was obvious. Fascdot was picking on the "different" kid to gain the support of those in his community. Bad, bad Fascdot. He even commented on some of the people responsible for
Regarding the "goodbye 70 karma", see above.
I didn't start the off topic thread. I responded to it. I usually don't do that, but, as I said in the first paragraph of my original post, I felt it was necessary.
In short: I was not writing about myself, I only offered an explaination intended to turn aside some of the arguements you made before you made them. Katz's "benevolence" (not my word at all) claim was not unsupported. I told you to read the book. I feel a little silly talking about the things he's done, because it made me feel that I was supporting him too much. I was trying to defend a good man, not betify him.
This "Deconstructing Katz" article is ludicrous. Whoever this guy is, he does less background research than Katz. For example:
where Katz commits such memorable aphorisms to paper as:
Movies (and TV) are, after all, one of a culture's most revealing, reliable mirrors.
And what does this tell us about ancient Rome? or should I watch a rerun of 'Ben Hur'? If this is true of the United States, I'm glad I don't live there. I'd hate to think that the Jerry Springer show was real life, or that Katz appearing on the Today Show would indicate that many Americans using the Internet are just like Katz.
No, he said mirror, not window. What does it say about Rome that they used to kill people for entertainment? What does it say about the US when people actually watch Jerry Springer and WWF? These are basic history and sociology questions that are the focus of a lot of current research. A quick search on Google with the terms "sociology" and "television" will show you how much. I counted three books or papers on the first two pages. In this instance, Katz was making a mistake, I think, by narrowing entertainment to movies and TV, but that's an arguable point. Mr. Wood's apparent misunderstanding of that might be forgiven once, but...
Or:
Geeks bit the heads off of chickens and rats in carnivals at the beginning of the century in exchange for room and board.
Suggesting that Alice Cooper, faded mainstream media musician who gets television time as an indicator of American culture, is a geek, strikes me as rather, well, odd. Come again?
This is just gross lack of knowledge. What Katz is talking about here is the history of the word "geek". It did, indeed, used to mean a person who would do anything or eat anything for money, a circus sideshow. Anyone who happens to follow X-files would know this, let alone someone who actually has an education.
Intelligent criticism is generally a strength on Slashdot. Quoting this ... diatribe is nothing but succumbing to the same laziness that sometimes pervades Katz's writing. Get off your butt and think!
Ummmm, so you like Titanic and Toy Story?
Movies are inherently not accurate depictions. How can I show an accurate depiction of a real event in less than three hours? Come on.
Define "proper decision making". Are you implying that movies should be morally correct and show good moral decisions? How exactly are you going to do that? Come on.
People ARE fools, and sometimes portraying them like that is more accurate than not. I'm a fool sometimes -- sometimes I lose my glasses when I'm wearing them. That's not just funny, it's realistic. Any movie that does not portray humans as fools, at least a little bit, lacks some serious credibility.
Generally you should not let a group of individuals who have little to gain affect the general betterment of the group. In real life such sacrifices do not get anywhere because they are pointless except for allegorical purposes for future generations nothing more.
I'm not sure what this last bit is about, so I can only say that I'm sure all of the people who fought in WWII would just love to be categorized as "pointless except for allegorical purposes". Perhaps you would like to expound upon your statement?
Just because it is a cliche doesn't make it untrue. I read the other criticisms, and they reflected the same lack of research and depth. Normally, this wouldn't be so bad, but Mr. Wood is criticizing Katz for the same thing he himself is doing. That just rubs me the wrong way.
Money is one of the measurements of success, if one defines success as being honored and revered (couldn't think of better words) by the society that one lives in. People who are "successful" in American society tend to make a lot of money. Hell, I would argue that I equate money with success -- when I get a raise, I feel that I am liked and honored by the company I work for. Money is a way of saying, I think you are a good worker/film maker/software engineer/whatever. What your society thinks about you is important to most people, even those who claim not to care. Some people are able to define success differently, and they are also generally considered "successful" by our society. How do you define success?
The possibilities are endless.
The extras budget might be a little expensive, though - when they have to pay for the 10,000 Anonymous Cowards.
bun-fhuinneog agam!
Yeah, so his stuff isn't usually the greatest, and it's not generally considered the best written. I still tend to read everything posted by him because he tends to bring up points that get people talking.
:P
I suppose I could never be involved with making a good movie either, because I thought Contact wasn't all that well done. I was disappointed by everything that had changed from the book, since to me, it completely changed the point of the story. As for someone not being able to produce something good because they have a different standard for what's good or not, I can't agree with that. But making something good after seeing how thrilled everyone tends to be with his stories here? We'll have to wait and see about that
I'm sure it won't be regular computer screens either, it'll be a 3d animated world. Why do directors thing that whenever they show a computer screen, it has to be doing something incredibly graphical? ie: the movies Hackers (gibson?) or Jurassic Park when the little girl breaks into the 'Unix' machine. All these directors want to portray an aspect of a geek or 'hacker' lifestyle, yet they push they're creative license to make us look like we're all working for ILM.
I just wanted to say, well done Jon Katz. We Slashdoters may not always agree with you on some points, but congratulations. :)
Syllable : It's an Operating System
"Tears streamed down her face". You could rephrase this to make it non-cliche: "Tears spasmed over the boundaries of her eye lids, cascading down the trecherous terrain of her face".
You Moron! So instead of saying something in five words, you would rather say it in a paragraph.
Idiot! Don't you think Jon Katz's articles are long enough. With what you are talking about it would take two days just to read his post.
For one, the way you wrote it makes you sound like you are as queer as football bat.
Sean Connery as the wizened old AT+T programmer guru
William Macy, Steve Buscemi and Norm MacDonald as the 9-5 office workers
Adam Sandler as the evil hacker who meets an untimely, gruesome demise early in the film
Mickey Rooney as the voice of God
Jennifer Aniston as the bland geek love interest
and of course...
Natalie Portman as the sexy sysadmin at the college
Terry Gilliam should direct.
way OT now
:)
The sad thing is the average Japanese geek get to see something like Lain on TV!
When was the last time geeks are this respected on America common media? You mean the MTV real-life "hacker" guy?
Hollywood should take a (geek) clue from Japan / Asia / Hong Kong, and not just ripping off the cool parts and bestowing them "cool" or "Caucasian" people.
Corrinne Yu
3D Game Engine Programmer
Geeks is already an anime: Lain.
...
Now if Geeks can be as intelligent as Lain, or Ghost in the Shell (though both are more sci-fi than reality in technology, the "concepts" are more realistic)
then it can be a good movie.
Corrinne Yu
3D Game Engine Programmer
Where is the Natalie Portman troll?
And Mae Ling Mak troll?
(Home come there isn't a troll for Linus Torvald naked and petrified?)
Now they will be on-topic.
They would just be making suggestions to the John Katz movie casting.
Corrinne Yu
3D Game Engine Programmer
Even better movie is the anime Lain.
Not as funny.
It would be great of Geeks the movie can be as good and thoughtful as Lain, or even the anime Ghost in the Shell.
Corrinne Yu
3D Game Engine Programmer
How about /. as "MTV Real World"?
Corrinne Yu
3D Game Engine Programmer
The fact that there are (TV series for chrissakes!) like Lain, that there are movies like Ghost in the Shell.
Show that it is POSSIBLE for movies about geeks and computer culture without that "The Net" insulting crap
so why don't Hollywood pick up some *movie* and *TV-series* making skillz from Asia
Like some posters here said, yes Hackers is fun
Lain (as a character) is totally a *real* computer user. She is female, without the "Hollywood" treatment of making a big deal (in fact a LOT of Lain characters of computer on-line users are female) about it.
It is "normal." She is not and doesn't have to be a sex pin-up girl.
And that's just the beginning.
Thought the computers and "interface" is a little advanced compared to our boxes, a lot of the concepts are sound and thoughtful.
Sorry for the rant.
But when will Hollywood REALLY learn from Asia instead of the occassional Taranatino ripping John Woo
Reservoir Dogs IS a John Woo/Chow Yun Fat rip. In fact the John Woo/Chow Yun Fat original is better.
/stop ranting now.
If ASIAN movie makers make a movie about geeks, it would be a good movie. So get this Bender person to go overseas and hire some seasoned Asians.
(apologies to generalizations against Hollywood and "white" movies
Corrinne Yu
3D Game Engine Programmer
Forget the fake American "Matrix" ... you know most real geeks are Chinamen like me (sorry for racial slurs against round-eyes). :)
...
... she'd make a good supernatural power command forces of the universe switch), Maggie Cheung, Moon Lee, Hsu Chi.
plot: The Matrix: Jet Li a smart though still kung-fu-a** kicking programmer for a big corporate software company wakes up one day and realize it is all a conspiratorial lie.
He meets sexy girl hacker cum high-kicking kung-fu expert Chingmy Yau (if you haven't seen "Naked Killer" you are missing out) who introduced him to
... Morpheus -- I mean, Chow Yun Fat -- a wise though still major 2-gun-fighter-(man that Lara Croft rips him off)-cum-super-god of gambler doing some major acrobatic gun scenes. As well as super action gambling god scenes with casino equipment. Yes "Morpheus" is also God of Gamblers since he can modify time and space.
Typical of Jet Li and Chingmy Yau, super sexy Chingmy Yaw keeps throwing herself at Jet Li, while doing super sexy side splits and high kicks killing bad guys.
Typical of Jet Li beautiful smart action chicks fawn over him and he ignores them all to concentrate on the mission.
Michelle Yeoh has lots of major action scenes as another of Morpheus chicks (one in which she beats the crap out of a cameo of Pierce Brosnan would be awesome).
Come to think about it, for some reason, besides Jet Li, ALL of Morpheus's disciples are gun-fighting-action hacker chicks, all played by Michelle Yeoh, Anita Mui, Brigette Lin (she just HAS to be "Switch"
Yup, all action kung-fu hacker chicks. (i.e., most of the these Chinese/Asian actresses are a lot more convincing as hackers/are much more computer literate/than round-eye actresses anyway)
It will also reflect on geek "reality" since a lot of math and engineering females are Asian or Indian. (Isn't it funny in most movies where they do have a hacker/computer/engineering chick it is a round-eye and extremely seldom a racial minority, when in reality there is a lot of racial diversity --- OK, Asian --- in math/engineering/women geeks?)
In one of the virtual universe, Jet Li comes back as Wong Fei Hung, and all the rebels gather at Po Chi Lam.
Director: John Woo of course, action direction Yuon Woo Ping with Sammo Hung with Yuen Bao.
P.S. Don't complain to me about the *spelling* of my Hong Kong "bruthas". Their Anglized names are horrible translations of their Chinese names.
P.P.S. Why get the Tarantino that rips the original John Woo/Chow Yun Fat greats, when you can hire the original!
P.P.P.S. I know. By this point it has no resemblance to the book. But I'd much rather watch a John Woo/Chow Yun Fat/Jet Li flick than a *new* Tarantino flick.
P.P.P.P.S. Yes, I do like kung-fu *and* wushu (they are different). I do learn and practice it at home. Part of keeping my Chinese heritage.
P.P.P.P.P.S. Despite the amazing elegance of the acrobatics, especially in the older-pre-wire kung-fu movies, if you practice a lot, you *can* do a lot of Matrix like moves in real life without the help of movie special effects and cutting angles (like the help Keanu Reaves had to get that Jet Li can do without).
Corrinne Yu
3D Game Engine Programmer
OT: Geeks the Anime coming up
:(
I love math, I love computers, I code, I practice kung-fu, only movies I like are action movies, gun-fight movies, kung-fu movies, and anime.
I am a walking Asian stereotype.
SIGH
Corrinne Yu
3D Game Engine Programmer
Angelina Jolie is buck ass naked in "Gia".
Unfortunately it is a movie about supermodel and not computers.
Fortunately, you can fast forward to all the parts she is naked. She looked really nice in that movie.
Yes, Geeks and any other movie must have Angelina Jolie in it in as little clothing as possible.
Corrinne Yu
3D Game Engine Programmer
You know you've made it when the requests for charity starts coming! ;)
Although a lot of the rest does read as cheapshots, there are insights hidden within the cheap shots, such as his Katzs' equation money = success.
Even though I despise trying to categorize people as one genre or another, and hate even more to call someone a 'geek', I'll have to be frank and say anyone who equates money with success is definetely not a geek. You don't do something for money (or at least I don't, but then again maybe I'm not a geek?). Anyway, I don't know what I am, except others sometimes call me a geek, and I know that I don't do things for $. I'm not passing down any type of moral judgement, I'm just tryng to say, I don't think geeks, whoever they maybe, equate money with success.
There is a flaw in your scenario.. You assume that Jon Katz is sincere and has some sense of integrity. These are character traits he does not seem to possess (or even know about). His writing is strictly geared towards the benjaminz (see the deconstructing katz link posted about a billion times on this article). He doesn't care how he gets there, as long as he does. Of course all the hundreds (thousands?) of /.er's that supported him will be in for a surprise when they finally see the real Katz.
Yea, Katz is a really good listener. He has the courage to admit hes wrong when hes made a mistake. He also does a good job of expressing both sides of the issue. (HEAVY sarcasm intentded). That is the kind of person I want to represent 'geeks' (about throw up from this sentence).
So in summary, we have a person who can not right coherently, is uncreative, regurgitates cliches, is arrogant, never admitted he was wrong, one-sided, and greedy producing a film about 'geeks'. WOW, hat a great combo! AND No, those aren't personal attacks, those are assessmants based on his actions and essays. Perhaps, I'm in the wrong crowd, I guess..
Deconstructing Katz.
I think the author misunderstood the quote, but this line in itself is a severely weak cliche. Wow, a culture reflects itself in its activities, what an ingenious suggestion. Who the hell doesn't know that? The sole purpose of this line is to eat space.
As for your other criticism, that seems valid. However, that doesn't eliminate the 100 or so other criticisms the author posted. It doesn't negate the fact that Katz's writing reaks of a one-sided-highschool-thoughtparttern stench. It doesn't alter the fact that Katz equates $ with success (there's a truly "geek" thing).
I think you need to spend some more time thinking about this...
I will give you some examples.
Ghandi
Martin Luther King
Mother Teresa
Stalin
Pinochet
But hey, I define sucess as zen-like tranquility and satisfaction, not as Trump's money and his 37th wife.
Hidden Win2K Menu
I think that if Tarantino is filming this one, he should do it like he did with Star Wars. I don't know what any of you guys look like, but I bet it would be cooler with action figures as all the other characters. Maybe Disco Lando could make a cameo too.
Your village called: Their idiot is missing.
But in the latter case, your patch stands a chance of making a difference. Sad, but true. Why can't you hire a PR agency like everyone one else, "JonKatz"?
Deconstructing Katz
Deconstructing Katz
"Is there anything better?" Huh? Slashdot worked just fine before JonKatz arrived. Slashdot is supposed to be different: it's not supposed to be "old-media" types such as JK expounding the word from his pulpit; but rather the best of stories submitted by you and me, as selected by CmdrTaco and friends. Slashdot doesn't need "professional" writers, the more so when they suck as much as Katz.
Deconstructing Katz
Katz PR machine on overdrive: reality check essential.
Deconstructing Katz
He's the John Hughes of the Slashdot Era.
.
.
.
.
Bueller?
Bueller?
Notice how people who are offering critiques ..then when the bootlickers come out
of Katz with substance are being tagged
"Troll" "Flamebait" etc by the moderators
(albeit with reasonable scores most of the
time)
from the woodwork to praise him as a guy who
speaks for us all, is worthy of immense
respect, sticks to his guns, yaddayadda,
they are immediately "Insightful".
Funny that. I always thought having insight meant
looking deep into something, beyond the immediate
and superficial (ie the hype) as many people are
when they give Katz the criticism he so richly deserves.
Although I suppose that the posters could be
considered Insightful after all, in the sense
that they are well aware that the moderators will
just pour the karma down upon them for towing the
./ Jon-Katz-Is-Worthy-Of-The-Attention-He-Gets
line.
bullshit. Katz is about as radical as my grandma,
and a piss poor writer to boot.
and now, down to -1 hell I go.
jd
a story about;
Jon Katz' soon-to-be-released book "Geeks";
Lawrence Bender (producer of Pulp Fiction, Resevoir Dogs;
Quentin Tarantino's films;
he directed this;
I had a brief but frightening image of Pulp Resevior Geeks.
A little AC who finally got a nick.
I just figured I should give everyone a dose of reality here. I feel great for the
It'll be great until they change the setting to Littleton and the two geeks to harris and klebold playing quake III online and then mutilating the high school football team....
*** ***
How can you do a cameo?! I have never even seen your face!
Vote for Linus doing the cameo! At least someone can recognize HIM!
It's quite amazing how a persons image can shine high above their abilities. Since Jon Katz is a self professed source for all that is worthy in technology news, that makes him a prime example for what I'm saying. Although Jon Katz seems to be well educated, his written skills leave something to be desired. As many have pointed out his writing style is trite and not creative. One get's the feeling that he does this to boost his already inflated public image, and in so doing keeping the dollar signs rolling in. It's hard to blame him though, money can make people do strange things. Best of luck your endevours Mr. Katz as I'm sure you know exactly what it is you're doing.
I spoke to John for awhile about being interviewed for this book. He was going to fly out and put me in there but it never happened. I think he wanted to focus more on geeks whose lives were saved by their "geekiness" or something. I'm just a "normal" geek I guess, never had to program to feed my family and wasn't really bullied in school (the fact that I'm 6'1" and have the physique of an offensive lineman probably helped that) so I never knew how interesting I would have been anyway. Oh well, now I'll just have to get famous on my accomplishments instead of just because I'm a geek. :)
*gag*
Seriously, what the hell is going on here? I'm not so concerned with Taco and Hemos et al, they're just running a site and having a great time seeing what trouble they can stir up. I'm shocked (and some would say I shouldn't be) by what Katz will go along with.
Is it in fact true that Jon Katz is exactly the type of corrosive media trendy powerworshipper he purports to be against?
Does he have rationalizations already in place about how he's not really leveraging his new-media connections to gain special privileges with the very same corporate media dinosaur he claims to hate and fear?
Which would he choose, to have his film carefully sterilized to be suitable for general audiences, or to have 'his people' sneak children into theaters to see his film?
*sigh* really, this whole business is disgusting. I would have no gripe with Katz doing this if he was sincere in his desire to align himself with the existing power structures of media that so many of us have to fight against. But he is not- something is wrong with his mind, that he can't see the phenomenal hypocrisy of his actions and desires.
I'm looking at Jon's reaction to the AOL/Time Warner merger, and it's bitterly funny how the whole first paragraph is bitching not about social issues, or the media implications, but the gripes of a _disgruntled_ _consumer_. And then, the relevance... "Is individualism, free expression, diverse opinion advanced when the information economy breaks down into two or three "old and new" media conglomerates that control virtually all of the archived news and entertainment information online, and increasingly, the means to deliver it?"
Well, Jon, never mind that, eh? Which one of the media conglomerates do you like the best for your movie? It's true that taking an option doesn't mean squat in the biz, and the movie may never be made- but as we watch you dance with big media, first Amazon now the film industry in your ever-broadening search for an audience that will accept you as their guru, it's impossible to overlook some things now.
If your dream continues, you may continue to mouth the same words you've been reciting for years, and you may continue to make a pretense of outrage against corporatism and big media: but the truth will be this: You are not only supporting corporatism and big media... let me spell it out.
You. Are. In. Their. Pay.
Traitor.
Regardless, congradulations, Jon. Well done, sir.
--
Erskin
geek.
"Type rm -rf /, once more, motherfucker. I dare ya, I double dare ya."
"Big KahunaLinux? That's that new Hawaiian RedHat variant, isn't it?"
I now declare the Pulp Fiction parodies over...
(if only t'were true)
--
I've read an early release version of it and really liked it. I was very insightful and I saw a lot of myself in the characters. A BIG CONGRATULATIONS! to Jon. Job well done. Thanks also for the early release book. I give it 5 penguins out of 5.
----------------
"Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds." - Albert Einstein
Co-founder and designer at Music Nearby: http://musicnearby.com
I do not mean to disparage anything or anyone here - I'm a faithful /.er, and I actually enjoy most of Katz's stuff. Here's where the "synergy" lies:
Katz writes for Slashdot. He also writes books. Slashdot features Katz's book as coming out RSN. This is good. And there may be a movie, with bit parts for the fellows who run Slashdot. Also neat.
Tacked on at the end of the article is an opportunity to pre-order the book from ThinkGeek, a cool online store that just happens to be owned by Slashdot's parent - Andover.net. So Andover, Slashdot, and ThinkGeek have turned an interesting story into a revenue opportunity. This is the future, folks - get used to it.
There's nothing wrong with cross-selling within your properties, but you'll see a lot more of it from companies a lot less trustworthy than Andover. Be prepared.
That said, congratulations, Jon. I'll be one of the first to buy a copy when it comes out!
- -Josh Turiel
-- Josh Turiel
"2. Do not eat iPod Shuffle."
It's the little differences. A lotta the same news we got here they got there,
but there they're little different.
Example? (8
I'm sorry. What I meant to say was 'please excuse me.'
what came out of my mouth was 'Move or I'll kill you!'
Here's a US Census report showing that Idaho had the third largest percentage growth in population from 1990 through 1999. The news outlets of the Treasure Valley (which includes Boise, Meridian, Nampa, and Caldwell) continually report surveys and studies showing that the area is growing at a phenomenal rate -- but I hadn't found any links to those yet.
Don't forget, the low population density, clean air, wide open spaces, and outdoor recreation make this (and other Western states besides California) seem like paradise to disenchanted high-tech workers who have money and jobs to offer.
--
how to invest, a novice's guide
"Do you expect me to talk?" "No, Mr. Bond. I expect you to die!"
"And you will know my name is the root when I bring my vengence upon thee!" - types rm -Rf / &
Reminds me of Pulp Simpsons. Especially the picture of Homer... "Hmmm, big KARMA burger!!" Oooh! That's FUNNY!! Ahh...
-- What you do today will cost you a day of your life.
Hmm..
:-)
a movie about real geeks who 'find a community on the internet'.
While that could be an interesting story, I wonder how they will be able to visualise it. Are we going to have to look at two geeks surfing and chatting for 90 minutes?
Greetings,
Ivo
Whatever happened to the film of Microserfs by D. Coupland? I remember hearing about it, and thinking, "Great book, but it didn't really have an action packed movie storyline"
But then again, neither did the story of Nick Leeson and it was made into a film.
> No I don't think *everyone* wanted it.
I didn't say that. I said "Seems to enjoy".
Music and films are all based on trends.
The trends are followed to make the maximum money.
It was just a coincidence that there's about 20girl bands all being formed at the same time.
It was just a coincidence that last summer (UK)
nearly every movie was a teen highschool romantic comedy (She's al that, 10TIHAY, Never been kissed, American Pie, Election)
I also never implied it would continue along the same lines, everyone gets bored, the trends change, the movie/music moguls follow where they are lead.
And most people do buy into the hype.
QV: The Phantom Menace, Jurassic Park, The Matrix, The Spice Girls, and many many more.
Pander to what the public wants.
If the public seems to enjoy one prequel released 22 years after the original, then they want every movie to have a prequel released 22years afterwards. If they like "scary" movies that have no visible scary entity, they want all movies to have no visible scary entity.
If we liked one girl band, then we'll love it when there's 1000 of them
It's all about money, and trends.
Unfortunatly.
How many people die in the book? Will there be nudity? If this thing is touchy feely crap, I'm gonn puke. Hmmm, would Katz write touchy feely crap? aaaah whatever, tgif....
+&x
First, congrats, Jon!
Now on for the real stuff. I'm sure Katz has sent more than a few people on /. an advanced readers editition. If you've read it, I'm really wondering how they are going to handle the story as Katz himself becomes intertwined with the story. The book isn't written as a third-person narrative; rather, Katz is there. Are we going to see someone playing Katz or are we going to see a rewrite to third-person?
----
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Am I the only one who thinks Microsoft is a misnomer? Perhaps Macrosoft would be a better fit?
I'm sorry, no offense to jon katz or anyone, but haven't we seen this film already. yes, I know that this one hasn't been made yet, but it simply sounds like a rehash of several films, once artistic, now turned into a cliche. I still wanna find a new film that hollywood can do. Enough of the warm and fuzzy crap.
"the difference between myself and a madman is that I am not mad" -Salvadore Dali
(joke)
...."
:-)
Theoretical situation:
Enter Jon Katz
"Hi, I'm Jon Katz, here to introduce my movie. I'll start by briefly discussing how technology affects the many people in society. Why, just recently I was
Eye's heavy. Can't think.. Sleepy.. fading..
The geeks fall asleep. The marketters in the audience are enthralled.
72 minutes later...
"So that's how I got to work with the cool Slashdot guys. Here's the movie."
Jon Katz steps to the side to watch the responce.
A familiar theme song starts up.
Geeks in audience start to groggily wake.
"WHAT THE HELL!? This is just Geeks In Space playing! Wait, what's that on the screen..."
On the screen, an image that is sometimes a mandelbrot set and sometimes a julia set is jiggling through a tunnel like image. It is not anti-aliased, and looks very pixelated.
"Hey, I recognize that, that's a sonqiue visualisation plugin. That bastard is making money from boring us to tears, and the slashdot crew's own music! And using a pathetic Windows MP3 player with no anti-aliasing.. LET'S GET 'IM!"
The geeks swarm over Jon, leaving nothing behind but a laptop with a pre-release of Windows 2000 Professional on it. On their way out the theatre, they also start mobbing the marketters in the audience, and incite a few riots around Radio Shack.
[fin]
Yeah, so if this movie is just Jon/Mp3 visualisation, we'll be on you like stink on a monkey. We at Echsuh (the Elite Cabal of High School and University Hackers) are not to be toyed with!
(/joke)
At-choo
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--
Internet Explorer (n): Another bug -- that is, a feature that can't be turned off -- in Windows.
Congratulations Jon first of all. On a humorous side (read: no flames please :-P) shouldn't the guys be getting royalties from this? I thought the book was about them (kindof). Anyway, like I said, this isn't completely serious :)
I personally like Mr. Katz and his writtings, the part that is amusing is that there are some many people here who seem to dislike him on a personal level and therefore they find it nessacary to blast him for his writing style, what they (the posters) don't realize is that they are still reading his articles and still looking at his views and ideas. so all the people who flame Katz need to realize that no matter what you post about him, he has already won whatever battle you are trying to start, so what I am basicly saying is, if you don't want to hear John Katz, DON'T READ HIS ARTICLES! or better yet write your own essay,get it submited, and see what happens, I would like to see what other people espesecialy those people who have blasted Katz for not being creative or using cliches, write a creative cliche free essay and make it interesting, then start complaing about how other people write essays,
:-)
ok??
thanks,
and have a nice day
Pander to what the public wants.
If the public seems to enjoy one prequel released 22 years after the original, then they want every movie to have a prequel released 22years afterwards. If they like "scary" movies that
have no visible scary entity, they want all movies to have no visible scary entity.
If we liked one girl band, then we'll love it when there's 1000 of them
No I don't think *everyone* wanted it. I thought it was a stupid move just for fanatics of the movies in the 70s but I guess that's just me. The future of the world isn't going to change at all it's just what one person decides to do with their time. Why do people always see conspiracies in areas that don't really have the brains to create them? Movie producers and people in the music industry are the last people I would actually credit with anything significant.
It's all about money, and trends.
Maybe but not everyone buys into hype and such. Just wait until all of the people who are living now get a little older and start to throw their weight around a little more. I very much doubt that anything you see will continue.
Slashdot social engineering at it's finest
Is the movie supposed to be a documentary or something? Somehow I was under the impression that Katz's book 'Geeks' was not a work of fiction -- or at least not fiction in the same sense that 'Microserfs' was.
So which is it? Is 'Geeks' a novel with some real-world characters or is it a 'non-fictional' 'real-life' depiction of us geeks at work and play? And what does either possibility say about the movie deal? Someone help me out here!
Jack
- -
Are you an SF Fan? Are you a Tru-Fan?
Methinks KS will be tied up with Clerks, the Animated Series, and then Clerks 2 for some time to come...
For more Kevin Smith info try here
free experimental electronic music netlabel at www.viablehybrid.com
For loged in users of (/.) only. 1) first, load the main page of (/.) (slashdot.org). 2) click on your user info:slashdot.org/users.pl (toward the top of the page, it's the link at the end of the "This page was generated by a Group of Random Ninjas for _link here)_(35463)"). 3)click on Customize Homepage:slashdot.org/users.pl?op=edithome. 4) About 1/2 way down the page, you'll see: "Exclude Stories from the Homepage", and below that a list of Authors. 5) Locate the name "Jon Katz" and click the check box to the left of that name. 6) Down toward the bottom of the page, look for a button that says "savehome". Click on it. By following these few simple steps, your (/.) will be katz-free. Note: this HowTo is ment to inform and educate and in no way is ment as a lack of endorsment for the author being deleted.
_________________________
*My favorite scene is going to be when the geeks get beat up by the jocks, and then the geeks get older and get rich. Then the jocks beat them up again anyway. *
"extrapolation": you are old, bitter, and unhappy with your life, and wish the days of you whupping someone for their lunch money would come back so you could have some value again?
Strangely enough, the jocks that used to do that same thing to me in school have mostly passed from this world into whatever lies after, due to their inability to grasp that the real world is NOT high school, and people OUTSIDE of school are ALLOWED to carry weapons, not prohibited from doing it, for the very reason they get used for. Stopping obnoxious bully's and thiefs for once and for all.
*grin*
Geeks with guns.. we're everywhere, we're everywhere.
Maeryk
Feminine Protection? What is that? A chartreuse flame thrower?
Regards,
j.
P.S. Now describe to me what JonKatz looks like!
The MST2K crew, Tom Servo, et. al. can be the movie moderators.
Corrinne Yu
3D Game Engine Programmer
Deconstructing Katz
...know what they call Linux in France?
What, OS Royale?
Actually, I think they still call it Linux.
"Put down that motherfucking mouse before I bust your motherfucking hand off!"
________________________________
When a major multi-national corporation distributes a book it crushes all competition and it is the end of print media.
This is compounded by the backing of a media powerhouse like a studio. First they make one movie and before you know it, they are making all of the movies and they control the world.
This move is a corruption of the OpenSource spirit and the sky is falling and the world is ending.
Congratulations on your new deal!
Eve Fairbanks says I drive a hybrid!LOL
Jay and Silent Bob as CmdrTaco and Hemos?
(shudder)
There are lots of easy plot ideas. The guys meet one of the "first post" guys, who turns out to be some famous celebrity (preferably an attractive female one). Hemo's hamster gets killed by crawling into a computer, the guys have an adventure replacing it, etc.
Eventually, however, they'd end up transferring Lt. Worf to the geek compound to boost ratings.
It would turn out to be a boon to the writers, who finally get the chance to eliminate Jon Katz' character, despite his immense popularity as a result of being played by michael richards. ("Katz!")
Worf : Katz! In writing these articles you insult my Klingon Ancestors! [Worf cleaves Katz]
Jack Valenti and the MPAA are to technology as the Boston strangler is to the woman home alone
It amazes me how a discussion of a post about the option rights bought by a publishing company can become an unmitigated thread of Katzbashing. Regardless of what he says, he DOES have a right to say it, and /. has a right to post it. Im amazed by the fact that people who put silly little snarky comments towards /. always have almost nothing valid to say towards the thread, but yet complain that they are moderated. *sigh*
As for this news, I think it is GOOD news.. I find myself in agreeance with Jon's views in a lot of cases, but the convoluted way he gets to it sometimes leads me to wish he had an editor. However, remember, Einstein could barely write legibly, let alone grammatically correctly. So what? do we ignore everything he had to say because the man wrote badly? No, we hail him as a genius and work around his learning disorders.
I personally WELCOME a geek movie from Jon.. at least he has read enough comments FROM the geek community to get a feel for it, even if he doesnt share that communitys viewpoints in the majority (or the vocal minority, im still not sure which applies here). But, im sure the film will turn (if made) out better than Hackers, or any of the other stupid films that have attempted to paint uber-geeks as gutter punks with antique hardware whose life revolves around boy meets girl and hacking el evil corporation.
I realy hope that this film gets made, and I hope Jon holds some sway over the final outcome. (if he is true to his beliefs, I think he would anyway, or would block the production of it, much as Gibson did with all the characters out of Neuromancer cept Johnny).
Anyway.. Kudos to you Katz, good luck, and have fun!
Feminine Protection? What is that? A chartreuse flame thrower?
Hey, I'll stunt-double for CmdrTaco. You never know when you might be swapping out some RAM and get a nasty shock. Wouldn't want that to happen on film. The girl geeks would definitely not dig it. OTOH, stunt men are chick magnets, as anyone knows.... ;)
It would be perfect! We even share the same initials! Really, dude, you gotta have me as your stunt man.
CT
Constitutionally Correct
Back when Katz was young and hadn't smoked too much dope, there was a subculture called 'hippies'. There were a certain amount of hippies that were perfectly sincere, and quite a lot of plastic imitations cruising over to the Haight on the weekends. (No, I wasn't one of the latter, I was about 3 months old at the time).
Eventually hippieness became a media explosion, infighting set in, and now hippie is largely an epithet, a term of abuse or embarrassment and something to be repudiated.
Thanks to Jon Katz, I can foresee a time when geek becomes equally an embarrassment. Where hippie became synonymous with an airheaded spacecase, geek will become synonymous with a sociopathic, daylight-fearing danger to society.
And maybe that's good, because then we can get back to being people for a change. :P
I find it really unfortunate that Lawrence Bender and his people are doing this, because it means it probably won't completely suck, and it deserves to. I must say I'm surprised, one thing about Bender's movies is that they've always been in some way new and original, and not typical Hollywood rehashing of the same themes we've already seen before. Not JonKatz. JonKatz is pro-Geek, anti-Censorship, anti-American/Establishment, anti-Conservative, anti-Religious, pro-Conspiracy-Theory, pro-Porn, pro-mp3, pro-linux, anti-MS. Wow, what an amazing set of original creeds! (or not) I can't wait to see all the twists and surprises in this movie!
JonKatz loves to play off the contradiction which is the popularity of 'alternative' culture. Geeks are alternative, so JonKatz has to write good things about them. Same with linux and mp3s and everything else. The y2k bug became too mainstream, so JonKatz had to say that it was a stupid overhyped thing which didn't matter.
The problem is that he doesn't actually think for himself too often. If you remember any of the old articles he posted (the ones where he stilled talked about computers, and used the word 'geek' 3 times per paragraph), it was obvious he had no idea what he was talking about or being a geek was. Of course sometimes he got the main point correct, but only incidentally, and without a lot of depth of discussion behind it.
The best part of JonKatz's articles has always been the user comments. I don't think we'll get that in the movie.
Besides, JonKatz once called Contact a failure, how can he ever be involved with the making of a good movie?
I can't wait to see how many times he uses the word 'geek' and uses microsoft-html in his movie.
I'm not a smorgasbord.
Katz and Hollywood were meant for each other. Both represent the cream of the pseudo-intellectual crop.
"And Hemos and I get cameos!"
This explains why Katz is still around, I guess.
(goodbye 70+ karma...)
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Linux MAPI Server!
http://www.openone.com/software/MailOne/
(Exchange Migration HOWTO coming soon)
Are you SURE that Tarantino directing would be such a good idea?
Mind you, the thought of CmdrTaco in a Gimp mask is kinda appropriate...
Who produced Goodwill Hunting, directed Clerks, Mallrats, Chasing Amy, and Dogma. He's worked with Lawrence Bender in the past and when I first heard of this it was his name that was mentioned. Actually my friend wasn't familiar with John Katz and said that it was the proposed new Kevin Smith flick.
It would be great if there were cameos (or parts) for Silent Bob (KS) and Jay (I'll never get enough of those two.
"Share your knowledge. It's a way to achieve immortality." -- Dalai Lama
How's this.
"Reach in that bag and give back that Palm Pilot."
"The one that says 'Bad Motherfucker' on the case."
Ving Rhames as a geek
"We're going to get a couple of Jolt fiending programmers and get object oriented on his ass."
Tarantino...
"Where do you see 'dead vaio storage' ?"
I gotta get back to work, I can keep this up all day...
LK
"Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
Remember DOOM was optioned for a movie at least 3, 4 years ago. the options have been bought and sold around Hollywood, and we're still not even close to seeing a feature film.