"Please do not tell me that "Israel has no problem with Iran being Muslim." If you would -really- like to see what Israel's attitude is toward Muslims, try traveling to that country dressed in traditional Muslim clothing. I imagine you'd be surprised."
the first part of your statement is not connected to the second part. The first part is a silly request from me, BTW you DO know that many muslims do travel to israel, as jerusalem is one of the three holy cities of islam?. the second part is a sugestion - tell you what - why don't you come over to israel and I'll take you to the musilim quarted of the old part of jerusalem, or Jaffa, or Acco, where jews and muslims live.
"I'm also a bit suspicious of -any- religious state (and yes, Israel is a religious state associated with Judaism, just as Iran is a religious state associated with Islam)"
Israels rules and judicial process is secular. Iran's is based on religious law. THE DIFFERENCE IS HUGE. If you don't get it, you don't get it. what can I say.
"As to MAD working? Guess what, it works."
Guess what, logical falicy.
it's like saying in october 2000 that American security policy in airports "works". suprise! it didn't. the fact that something didn't happen by sheer luck doesn't mean it will not ever happen. LEARN your history. there is a great documentry about mcnamara which tells EXACTLY what the missle crisses in Cuba was about - we were so close to anhilations it isn't even funny. Forget for a second that Iran is not orthogonal to israel, or the US , ir to the USSR.
"but they're not -actually- going to take an action that leads to their own destruction or is likely to."
I don't know if this is correct. And I DEFINETLY do not want to try to find out.
And anyway, this might be correct in theory. in practice what happens in battle, is chaotic in nature an can not be easly controled. If you educate all of your citizens to hate and brain wash them twards anhilating a percived enemy, one which thy've never seen even (israel and iran don't even share a border) - the chance that someone will press a button grows. do YOU know the chain of command in irans millitery? how can you be so sure of rational processes in Iran?
Israel has no problem with the fact that iran is muslim, it does have a problem with the fact that iran wants israel to not exist (one taktic is by funding and arming hizbullah and the hamas, another is gaining access to nuclear weaponry). Iran's problem with israel is religious in nature, though.
" The USSR had no problem with the citizens of the US being where they are.
This is a non-sequitur. The USSR and USA's differences were over economic ideology, Iran and Israel's is over religious ideology."
exactly. This is exactly what I was trying to say - Mutialy assured distruction between the US and the USSR worked (barely). MAD between israel and Iran - most likely will NOT work - since the motivation behind the hostilities is not rational - and the fact that one side (Iran) wants to eradicate the other - it's not a just a threat, it's a goal.
"Well, those people who now live in Israel (not all jews are sionists, btw) invaded it"
no they didn't. I most cirtainly didn't. I was born here. The UN recognised the right of the jewish people to self determination in israel.
"(not all jews are sionists, btw)"
true. there are basicly two types to those: the ultra religious (some of whom live in israel) and those who are ultra liberal inteligencia and have a VERY short memory of history (most of whom live in the US).
"there were people there, and they were pushed out"
some were, some wern't. I'm talking about 1948 here as well as 1967. those who left, left. those who staid staid. tough. same thing happned to jews back in ww2. you don't see many jews bombing France, germany and polish caffe's now do you?
"So Iran and other countries have a very solid ground when they refuse to recognize Israel"
no they don't. Israel exists, with a population of 7+ million, most of which are jews, most of which were born in israel. this argument is the same as saying that the US has no right to exist since the indians were robbed of thier land. it's irrelevent to the "here and now".
"some fairy tales in a book don't give them the right to push people out of their homes"
indeed. this is the one thing I agree with you about, being an athist myself. unfortunatly I had no say in the matter, as I was born years after said events took place.
"But USSR thought that USA (and other capitalistic countries) also had no rights to exist"
true, but.. The USSR had no problem with the citizens of the US being where they are. Iran are against israel's existence - not just the state it self but with most of the people who live in it - the difference is huge. When Iran's president says that the jews who came from europe after WW2 should go back to the states they came from - what do you THINK he means? and who do you think ARE those jews today, 60 years later, anyway? what about their offspring (who out number WW2 survivers, obviously 100 to 1) - should they go back too?
"It's also the case with Iran: a lot of threatening Iranian rethoric (like the promise to erase Israel from the world map) is just incorrectly translated arabic."
if anything, it's incorrectly translated pursian.
I don't see how US-USSR history is in any way orthogonal to the situation between israel and iran, for the reasons I stated above. Iran does not think israel has a right to exist. plain and simple. it's not a misstranslation.
I DEFINETLY do not see how you can be so sure that "It's also the case with Iran". when you seem, well, somewhat ignorant to what language is actually spoken in the country to which you refere.
"but Isreal the only one created for people who hadn't lived there for hundreds of years"
First: this is not true, or at least not accurate. jews have been living in israel throught the ages. It's true that most have been driven out, but some DID live in Jerusalem (the old city has had a jewish quarter for at least since the begining of the utoman rule) as well as in zfat, and a few other locations arround the country. the jewish tradition that "Israel is the home-land and will be returned to" has lived through the ages. like it or not.
I will grant you that those jews who lived in israel did not seek self-determination (they were waiting for a messiah), but nither did the palestinians of the time seek self determination.
Oddly enough throught most of the last 2000 years, jews and arab muslims co-existed only interupted by the ocasional crusading massacare.
self determination is a relativly new concept (the end of the 19 century).
The truth of the matter is that this doesn't really matter, anyway. most israeli jews (and israeli arab's) have been born in israel - they have no mother land other then israel, and are not likely to go back anywhere since they don't have anywhere to go back too.
as for "Until Isreal goes back to the 1967 borders, they will not come close to having, nor deserve, security"
and prey tell.. what happned prior to the six day war? cough.. cough.. did israel have security then?
the answer is NO. it didn't. in 1948 there was a war, which was started by the arab nighbouring countries (mainly jordan, btw, but egypt and even iraq were apart of the fources who invaded israel)- this happned right after the british pulled out. israel actually won that war. Most arabs remember this war as the Nakba - the catastrophy - many pa;estinians were uprooted back then. actually the nakba was more violent then what happned in 67 - entier villiges were deported and wiped out - there was no CNN or al-jazira reporting back then.
once israel goes to the 67 border, the arabs will want to go back to the 1948 borders. and why shouldn't they? the UN partition program is pretty clear. Israel will never agree to this. looking at what has happned in lebannon since israel pulled out in 2000, and what happned in gaza since israel pulled out just a year ago it should be clear to anyone that israel has absolutly NO insentive to pull out from anywhere.
there will never be peace untill one of two things happen: either israel is distroyed or the arab countries and palestinians give up and realise Israel will NEVER go away - and strive to a real solution where the two states can co-exist. Both of these solution seem unlikely now (israel is too powerfull to simply fade away, and the arab countries use israel as the boogie men - the common evil that unites thier population - they use Israel as a means to control thier own impovrished, poor, uneducated population).
mutualy assured distruction works* becoase you have two rational powers with nuclear capabilities threatening each other - both know and fear the result of a strike.
What we have here is one side which is a secular democratic power who have never actually stated they have nuclear capabilities. on the other side you have a theocracy who glorifies honorable death, and has publicly stated it's will to distroy the other side.
* thanks to what we know now of Curtis La-may's recomendations during the kuba missle crises - I think it's pretty obvious that we had more luck then brains with MAD. Most people don't know how close we were to distructions back then.
"but as is becoming increasingly clear with Apple, that success is not to do with doing good business, rather it's just bad accounting"
have you been outside these last two years? you go on the subway or any metro and you see that 1 out of 5 people has white earbuds sticking out of thier ears.
Re:could this be lights out for slashdot?
on
IBM Opts for AMD
·
· Score: 1
you're absolutly right. I thought that it was an editorial remark, I was wrong.
It may get 0wn3d some way, but probably not the way thats depicted in the article. you'll have to use a 3rd party device driver and card for the exploit to work instead of the wireless card and driver that are built in by apple.
could this be lights out for slashdot?
on
IBM Opts for AMD
·
· Score: 3, Insightful
when a slashdot editor writes "could this be lights out for companyX" when companyY is a sponsering vendor.. I have a feeling you guys are heading twards shark-jumping waters fast.
this is a design win for AMD, yes. and an important one at that. but this is a far cry from lights out for intel. jeezz.
indeed. A close second to the folowing line of approach: "my hovercraft is full of eals", "do ya Waunt come back my place bouncy bouncy?" and "if I told you you had a butifull body, would you hold it against me".
from a marketing perspective you may be right - Xbox360 hasn't officialy launched in israel yet. and the israeli reprisentatives of apple, Yeda, are.. well.. fucking muppets*.
however you have to agree that this fucking story is, well, fucking amusing.
this is true, and the potential for fun is endless. think of going into an israeli computer store and askeing the worker there (Specificly a female worker) "how much does a fuck cost here?"
the AMD system was overclocked, and it's confirmed that AMD will not move to a 65nm process untill 2007, so the comparison has a chance of being apt. that is the competition in six months might be between very similar system from AMD and Intel.
Slashdot Mirror
"Please do not tell me that "Israel has no problem with Iran being Muslim." If you would -really- like to see what Israel's attitude is toward Muslims, try traveling to that country dressed in traditional Muslim clothing. I imagine you'd be surprised."
the first part of your statement is not connected to the second part. The first part is a silly request from me, BTW you DO know that many muslims do travel to israel, as jerusalem is one of the three holy cities of islam?. the second part is a sugestion - tell you what - why don't you come over to israel and I'll take you to the musilim quarted of the old part of jerusalem, or Jaffa, or Acco, where jews and muslims live.
"I'm also a bit suspicious of -any- religious state (and yes, Israel is a religious state associated with Judaism, just as Iran is a religious state associated with Islam)"
Israels rules and judicial process is secular. Iran's is based on religious law. THE DIFFERENCE IS HUGE. If you don't get it, you don't get it. what can I say.
"As to MAD working? Guess what, it works."
Guess what, logical falicy.
it's like saying in october 2000 that American security policy in airports "works". suprise! it didn't. the fact that something didn't happen by sheer luck doesn't mean it will not ever happen. LEARN your history. there is a great documentry about mcnamara which tells EXACTLY what the missle crisses in Cuba was about - we were so close to anhilations it isn't even funny. Forget for a second that Iran is not orthogonal to israel, or the US , ir to the USSR.
"but they're not -actually- going to take an action that leads to their own destruction or is likely to."
I don't know if this is correct. And I DEFINETLY do not want to try to find out.
And anyway, this might be correct in theory. in practice what happens in battle, is chaotic in nature an can not be easly controled. If you educate all of your citizens to hate and brain wash them twards anhilating a percived enemy, one which thy've never seen even (israel and iran don't even share a border) - the chance that someone will press a button grows. do YOU know the chain of command in irans millitery? how can you be so sure of rational processes in Iran?
"Israel is anything but secular."
in the quite words of the virgin Mary:
"Come again?"
(I just couldn't resist this quote from snatch, forgive me)
Oh brother. what a load of..
"Iran and Israel's is over religious ideology"
Israel has no problem with the fact that iran is muslim, it does have a problem with the fact that iran wants israel to not exist (one taktic is by funding and arming hizbullah and the hamas, another is gaining access to nuclear weaponry). Iran's problem with israel is religious in nature, though.
" The USSR had no problem with the citizens of the US being where they are.
This is a non-sequitur. The USSR and USA's differences were over economic ideology, Iran and Israel's is over religious ideology."
exactly. This is exactly what I was trying to say - Mutialy assured distruction between the US and the USSR worked (barely). MAD between israel and Iran - most likely will NOT work - since the motivation behind the hostilities is not rational - and the fact that one side (Iran) wants to eradicate the other - it's not a just a threat, it's a goal.
"Well, those people who now live in Israel (not all jews are sionists, btw) invaded it"
no they didn't. I most cirtainly didn't. I was born here. The UN recognised the right of the jewish people to self determination in israel.
"(not all jews are sionists, btw)"
true. there are basicly two types to those: the ultra religious (some of whom live in israel) and those who are ultra liberal inteligencia and have a VERY short memory of history (most of whom live in the US).
"there were people there, and they were pushed out"
some were, some wern't. I'm talking about 1948 here as well as 1967. those who left, left. those who staid staid. tough. same thing happned to jews back in ww2. you don't see many jews bombing France, germany and polish caffe's now do you?
"So Iran and other countries have a very solid ground when they refuse to recognize Israel"
no they don't. Israel exists, with a population of 7+ million, most of which are jews, most of which were born in israel. this argument is the same as saying that the US has no right to exist since the indians were robbed of thier land. it's irrelevent to the "here and now".
"some fairy tales in a book don't give them the right to push people out of their homes"
indeed. this is the one thing I agree with you about, being an athist myself. unfortunatly I had no say in the matter, as I was born years after said events took place.
"no he doesnt say he doesnt believe it happened, he says he has seen no proof for it"
yes, your right. I looked again.
"(hint, they dont deny anything near what you think they do)"
I doubt you know what I think. but pray tell.. what is it they actually deny, then?
more over, his logic for denying it is by saying he does not believe it, therefor it didn't happen.
yup, sane as rain he is.
"But USSR thought that USA (and other capitalistic countries) also had no rights to exist"
true, but.. The USSR had no problem with the citizens of the US being where they are. Iran are against israel's existence - not just the state it self but with most of the people who live in it - the difference is huge. When Iran's president says that the jews who came from europe after WW2 should go back to the states they came from - what do you THINK he means? and who do you think ARE those jews today, 60 years later, anyway? what about their offspring (who out number WW2 survivers, obviously 100 to 1) - should they go back too?
"I fail to see how is that different."
WTF?
I fail to see how this is similar.
"It's also the case with Iran: a lot of threatening Iranian rethoric (like the promise to erase Israel from the world map) is just incorrectly translated arabic."
if anything, it's incorrectly translated pursian.
I don't see how US-USSR history is in any way orthogonal to the situation between israel and iran, for the reasons I stated above. Iran does not think israel has a right to exist. plain and simple. it's not a misstranslation.
I DEFINETLY do not see how you can be so sure that "It's also the case with Iran". when you seem, well, somewhat ignorant to what language is actually spoken in the country to which you refere.
"but Isreal the only one created for people who hadn't lived there for hundreds of years"
First: this is not true, or at least not accurate. jews have been living in israel throught the ages. It's true that most have been driven out, but some DID live in Jerusalem (the old city has had a jewish quarter for at least since the begining of the utoman rule) as well as in zfat, and a few other locations arround the country. the jewish tradition that "Israel is the home-land and will be returned to" has lived through the ages. like it or not.
I will grant you that those jews who lived in israel did not seek self-determination (they were waiting for a messiah), but nither did the palestinians of the time seek self determination.
Oddly enough throught most of the last 2000 years, jews and arab muslims co-existed only interupted by the ocasional crusading massacare.
self determination is a relativly new concept (the end of the 19 century).
The truth of the matter is that this doesn't really matter, anyway. most israeli jews (and israeli arab's) have been born in israel - they have no mother land other then israel, and are not likely to go back anywhere since they don't have anywhere to go back too.
as for "Until Isreal goes back to the 1967 borders, they will not come close to having, nor deserve, security"
and prey tell.. what happned prior to the six day war? cough.. cough.. did israel have security then?
the answer is NO. it didn't. in 1948 there was a war, which was started by the arab nighbouring countries (mainly jordan, btw, but egypt and even iraq were apart of the fources who invaded israel)- this happned right after the british pulled out. israel actually won that war. Most arabs remember this war as the Nakba - the catastrophy - many pa;estinians were uprooted back then. actually the nakba was more violent then what happned in 67 - entier villiges were deported and wiped out - there was no CNN or al-jazira reporting back then.
once israel goes to the 67 border, the arabs will want to go back to the 1948 borders. and why shouldn't they? the UN partition program is pretty clear. Israel will never agree to this. looking at what has happned in lebannon since israel pulled out in 2000, and what happned in gaza since israel pulled out just a year ago it should be clear to anyone that israel has absolutly NO insentive to pull out from anywhere.
there will never be peace untill one of two things happen: either israel is distroyed or the arab countries and palestinians give up and realise Israel will NEVER go away - and strive to a real solution where the two states can co-exist. Both of these solution seem unlikely now (israel is too powerfull to simply fade away, and the arab countries use israel as the boogie men - the common evil that unites thier population - they use Israel as a means to control thier own impovrished, poor, uneducated population).
mutualy assured distruction works* becoase you have two rational powers with nuclear capabilities threatening each other - both know and fear the result of a strike.
What we have here is one side which is a secular democratic power who have never actually stated they have nuclear capabilities. on the other side you have a theocracy who glorifies honorable death, and has publicly stated it's will to distroy the other side.
* thanks to what we know now of Curtis La-may's recomendations during the kuba missle crises - I think it's pretty obvious that we had more luck then brains with MAD. Most people don't know how close we were to distructions back then.
this is not a parody of linux. it's a parody of an al gore flick. it is most cirtainly NOT within fair use of the linux trade mark.
I just love this comment..
"but as is becoming increasingly clear with Apple, that success is not to do with doing good business, rather it's just bad accounting"
have you been outside these last two years? you go on the subway or any metro and you see that 1 out of 5 people has white earbuds sticking out of thier ears.
you're absolutly right. I thought that it was an editorial remark, I was wrong.
the premiss is still lame, IMHO, though.
It may get 0wn3d some way, but probably not the way thats depicted in the article. you'll have to use a 3rd party device driver and card for the exploit to work instead of the wireless card and driver that are built in by apple.
or in other words: this is a non story.
when a slashdot editor writes "could this be lights out for companyX" when companyY is a sponsering vendor.. I have a feeling you guys are heading twards shark-jumping waters fast.
this is a design win for AMD, yes. and an important one at that. but this is a far cry from lights out for intel. jeezz.
I have only one thing to say to this Jani guy: UN RESOLUTION 1559.
look it up.
nah. we are MUCH noiser then that.
indeed. A close second to the folowing line of approach: "my hovercraft is full of eals", "do ya Waunt come back my place bouncy bouncy?" and "if I told you you had a butifull body, would you hold it against me".
from a marketing perspective you may be right - Xbox360 hasn't officialy launched in israel yet. and the israeli reprisentatives of apple, Yeda, are.. well.. fucking muppets*.
however you have to agree that this fucking story is, well, fucking amusing.
* I appologize to kermit and the gang in advance.
in theory you are right, but:
tune -
dune -
mule -
in practice you are wrong.
http://herenot.livejournal.com/29371.html
this is true, and the potential for fun is endless. think of going into an israeli computer store and askeing the worker there (Specificly a female worker) "how much does a fuck cost here?"
he mean knickers.
"Granted, I am sure it will degenerate into troll-fest, with the biggest trolls getting +5 Insightful."
and that it did.
I come from What, you insensitive clod!
yup this is what I thought too.. but..
the AMD system was overclocked, and it's confirmed that AMD will not move to a 65nm process untill 2007, so the comparison has a chance of being apt. that is the competition in six months might be between very similar system from AMD and Intel.