Slashdot Mirror
Lead PHP Developer Quits
Jasper Bryant-Greene writes "Jani Taskinen, one of the lead developers of the Zend Engine (the engine that powers PHP), as well as a lead developer for the thread safety system and other core components of the PHP project, has quit in a relatively cryptic message to the php-internals mailing list. Jani has been involved with PHP for about 6 years and his loss will undoubtedly be a big blow for the PHP project."
Looks like someone may need to wrestle their account back
Is it just me....or does php-internals sound painful ?
Hmmmmmm
This looks like any 15 year old's "I won't be coming back here and you all suck" stormouts. The ones that happen each week, and he'll be back within a few hours.
Why is this on slashdot?
"Jani has been involved with PHP for about 6 years and his loss will undoubtedly be a big blow for the PHP project."
To paraphrase Dion. "My [code] will go on."
From: Jani Taskinen
Date: Thu Jul 27 20:28:45 2006
Subject: Good bye.
Groups: php.internals
I never spent 6 years with the same people, job, hobby, women, whatever...
You only need threadsafe PHP (gettext, gd, etc) if your webpage has more than 1 concurrent user.
Only pages with more than 1 visitor need to ca.. OOPS!
-Woof woof woof!
Oh my god! He used the phrase "could not care less" correctly! Obviously not an American ;-)
Harsh words, sounds like there is some personal conflict involved. Or maybe he just got tired and wanted to move on to something different. Best wishes to all involved anyways.
Unfortunate for the Zend team, but I'm sure it won't be the death of PHP. There are many other developers, and you can still run PHP sites with other engines, for instance, the Quercus engine in Cauchos Resin I'm sure there are similar modules available in the mono/.Net world and others.
Being bitter is drinking poison and hoping someone else will die
It's nice to be able to do something more efficient than flock. Yeah, shared semaphores are kind of threading stuff too.
Jani "sniper" Taskinen
Jani worked on the PHP core and the Zend Engine.
Jani has contributed to php.net in the following ways over the last 12 months:
* as a lead developer for Zend Engine II
* as a lead developer for TSRM (Thread Safety Resource Management)
* by testing and maintaining the build for the PHP core
* by writing/maintaining tests for the standard functions in the PHP core
* as a lead developer for gd, a core extension
* by working as a developer on imap, a core extension
* by working as a developer on session, a core extension
* by working as a developer on sockets, a core extension
* by providing occasional fixes for the testsuite distributed with PHP
* by applying maintenance fixes to the underlying libraries in bcmath, pcre and xmlrpc
* by providing tests and occasional fixes for xml
* by providing occasional fixes for apache2filter, apache2handler, apache_hooks, cgi, cli, dba, dom, iconv, informix, isapi, ldap, mcrypt, mcve, mime_magic, msql, mssql, mysqli, mysql, ncurses, oci8, odbc, openssl, oracle, pgsql, recode, snmp, soap, sqlite, sybase, tidy and tokenizer
* by writing/maintaining tests for mbstring, mhash, pcntl, pspell, shmop and wddx
* by working as a developer on bugs.php.net
Just from reading that it seems like it might have been a difficult, possibly even painful, decision to make, but now that it's made I think he might be feeling relief about getting out of the project. He might even be feeling like a huge weight has been taken off his shoulders. I don't think he'll rejoin the project any time soon.
You know its love when you memorize her IP address to skip DNS overhead.
That sound he hears behind him is a bridge been thoroughly burnt to a crisp.
With an attitude like this, the fact that this chap's leaving, is actually a good news for the future of PHP. No open source project can afford devleopers with such bloated egos. And especially at the top, it's better to have less hot-headed souls, talking in a decent, humane manner.
I could not care less. Take care. Please do not reply to this email. --Jani
p.s. Delete my CVS account. I have no use for it anymore.
Sometimes I wonder when Linus uses phrases like 'Kicks Ass' 'Couldn't care less' etc., (I refer to his fruity prose in the debate on microkernels) whether he's really suited to his job. Projects like Linux and PHP have a very high reputation, it is unbecoming of bigwigs to talk and act like Ballsmers.
If you keep throwing chairs, one day you'll break windows....
Must....throw....all....toys...out....of........ pram!
If that is a legitimate message and his account hasn't been hacked then that is a top quality hissy fit! This is one of those things that will haunt him in the future as something that was posted in anger
I'm sure most people (the ones who matter) can understand why. If someone doesn't, I could not care less. Take care.
Dont know much about PHP and dont know the insides of what happens with the group but judging by the reaction I wonder if I can hazard a guess about what happened. When someone who is obviously a major driving force behind a movement of this kind quits with so much bitterness as to turn his back on his own creation, the best I can gather is he feels theres nothing left worth working/fighting for. Maybe internal politics is causing a serious strain on his ability to function and some of the fights may have wrongly undermined his credibility in the eyes of others. Its sad when people hog the limelight of someone elses hard work and alienate the people who matter for their own personal shortsighted gains. I've seen it happen all to often.
I agree that there seems to be some "personal conflict". The people who matter...and I could care less...delete my CVS...no use for it anymore...do not reply to this email...
Wow, is PHP really that hard to work on? Is he being threatened at gunpoint?? Seriously, why the sour grapes? Is this a hoax? Was his account hacked?
This is not a funny post. This is trying to be serious. What's going on with this guy? If he's just done and finished working on it, he could quit w/o the bitterness. Was he feeling squashed/trodden upon?
If PHP itself (no other factors) could do this to a guy, how much does it encourage other people to develop it?
I have developed a truly marvelous proof of this comment, which this signature is too narrow to contain.
Now get back in the holodeck and strip.
Maybe we should stop wondering about him. For all we know, he's got problems with other things in his life. Let's stop making assumptions about the poor guy. If I was Jani and saw all this psychoanalysis going on about me, I'd definitely tell whoever was doing it to shut the fuck up.
I make websites and stuff. Buy one.
Let me get this straight. People are making pretty nasty judgments based on one terse post that may or may not be legitimate. And in that moment we forget and discount everything he has done over the past six years.
As a volunteer he gave a great deal back to the world. You call him childish. I say he is entitled to walk away without having to explain himself.
http://blindscribblings.com - Tasty pop-culture in conceptual fashion.
http://developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=192 445&cid=15797671
From reading the mirrored post above it just seems terse and upset, but not really cryptic. Cryptic is stuff like "beware of the dwarf" and "under a big 'W.'"
Slashdot Burying Stories About Slashdot Media Owned
He's going to work with Adobe to rework ASP. They feel he can bring a certain *cough* level of new ideas *cough* to the project.
-tgpo
PHP is one of several languages that GNU/Linux could do without. Python and Ruby are others. None of them provides capabilities beyond C, C++, Shell, Gawk, Perl, or scheme. Don't be tempted to use them. They simply divert effort that would be better applied elsewhere.
an ill wind that blows no good
Nice grammar, dude!
The impression I'm getting with most of these posts reminds me of the crotchety old man who yells, "You aren't entitled to be happy with your job. Just shut up and be thankful that you have a job."
Not only is it okay for people to actually pursue happiness, it's also okay, and healthy, for people to express how unhappy and upset they are. Seems that some people on this thread should take note of this.
... well I thought it was funny ;)
--I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken.
Lead developer for Zend engine of PHP quits... pandemonium and chaos ensue!
Please! Happens all the time; guy/gal works on project for a zillion years, sits down one day in front of their terminal, calls up the code, gives it a glance and goes: I can't freakin' do this anymore! I worked on one project for three years and it was blessed when I was finally released from my contract and moved on to other things. I was proud of the app, don't get me wrong, but if I had to finagle the code yet again for the umpteenth time, I was going to lose what remains of my mind.
Whatever the reason, he's gone. Move along... nothing to see here.
GetOuttaMySpace - The Anti-Social Network
Relatively cryptic? I think it couldn't be clearer.
The AACS key is NOT 0xF606EEFD628B1CA427BEA93A9CA9773F
I don't know about anyone else, but somedays you love the project you're working on and other days you wish it would burn down, fall over and sink into the swamp.
He's probably not serious.
Summation 2
A predictable slashdot response. I am advising people not to waste their time. They should think about the architectural confusion they create by doing so.
an ill wind that blows no good
So far it's Slashdot 59 - php.internals 0. Check the php.internals group.. no one seems to care, or at least no one feels like it's appropriate to respond. You'd think there would be more public outcry in the PHP community?
Screw You Guys, I'm Going Home!
Is it just me, or does this read like an email sent when on the 'juice'? It should be forbidden to send email when under the influence :)
Burnout is a very commom symptom in all kinds of volunteer organisations, open source being one of the ones see more about on Slashdot.
The causes are quite straight-forward. When we do something for other people, we need some kind of reward. It can come in many forms - appreciation, money, reputation, status. The best rewards change over time and are a good mix of all these.
Open source projects consume people, with demands on their time, social life, professional capacity. The only rewards tend to be reputation. Depending on the invidual's personal life and other demands (family, job), they can sustain a heavy open source project for a few years, and as many as five or six. At some point, it either becomes a profession (with a wage) or a problem.
All volunteer organisations have this problem and it's exacerbated by peer pressure. If everyone else is spending 80 hours a week hacking, then it seems normal to spend 81. At some points, open source projects can seem like cults, and unintentionally adopt many cult techniques to keep people involved, whatever the personal cost.
(Those techniques include isolation from family, use of secret languages, separation from real time and real life, etc. I don't *think* any OS projects do this on purpose, though I have my secret doubts about the FSF. Just kidding, Richard!)
I've seen burnout cases so severe the persons involved were literally sick, unable to function normally any more, and needing psychiatric help. In other cases it's project-specific. I've had this on open source projects, where after five years I've just abandoned the software, telling the users, "sorry, it's not working any more".
Each person has different needs, but eventually if we don't get what we need, we get sick. Young people are especially vulnerable because they don't understand their own needs very well and neglect them easily.
The upside is that burnout is easily cured by a change of scene and some tangible rewards. Some people even come back to projects they've abandoned, but it can be very difficult. A good dose of selfishness ("what do I need in order to feel happy NOW") is always useful, and a good self-protection measure in many environments, open source groups included.
My blog
Best bet is to go ahead and leave on YOUR terms before getting forced out.
TNT
Jani uses that network: google for jani elisa-laajakaista.fi
There's no Google results of him using that specific ip address before.
But, that ip address does belong to that network: Reverse DNS lookup for 88.112.115.63
I found these:
http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=php-dev&m=11329681 6720289&w=2 5 7711671&w=2 0 9820157&w=2
http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=php-dev&m=1153255
http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=php-dev&m=1153312
...which hint at conflict. Maybe one of those blew up in a way he didn't like. However, I don't think those really are the issues. I would guess it's something off-list. It's too bad. I have friends working at Zend. You never want to see someone so useful walk away.
I must admit that I'm impressed with the mailing list -- Jani said "don't reply" and nobody did. They're either a disciplined bunch, heavily moderated, or Jani's leaving just didn't have much impact.
-Tony
My Greasemonkey scripts for Digg &
Maybe he decided to quit because he finally learned Lisp? That would make a pretty serious personal conflict.
I once had a signature.
Maybe the killed Finnish UN peace keeper was Jani's friend (from army?) or a relative. Finnish people are generally quite patriotic. Anyway, of course a volunteer has right to quit anytime, for whatever reason.
If you look at mkavanagh2's profile (the one who posted the apparent IRC log) you will see that he has somewhat of an iffy history consisting of a lot of what can be considered to be relatively trollish posting, so I would take this with a grain of salt people.
Jani has been pretty silent all year. Google groups only found 22 posts from him this year. The drop from previous years is huge.
Anyway, Jani did take part in discussions about Israel on the sfnet.keskustelu.maanpuolustus some five years ago. His opinions were not pro-Israel. This would add credibility to the irc-log. Maybe he knew the Finn who was recently killed in Lebanon by Israel?
He is not comparing it to the Nazis and the Holocaust. He is comparing it to Poland. 1939 to be exact. What happens next remains to be seen and is largely dependent on the action the rest the world takes _right now_.
Kind Regards
"A few great minds are enough to endow humanity with monstrous power, but a few great hearts are not enough to make us w
Ironic that a former "peacekeeper" says "Nuke"... Very lame, regardless of the reason.
A CC-licensed illustrated horror novel
To say that you don't care if people don't know why you're leaving a project if your motive to do so is supposed to be a political statement.
Imagine the news coverage he might have gotten (some, for sure) had he made a public issue out of this. "Middle East Conflict Damages Future of Major Internet Technology."
Thanks for pointing out that Zend is based in Israel.
I shall no longer talk to anyone that uses php.
thank God the internet isn't a human right.
One morning you wake up; your not where you want to be; you are not happy; and staying means you will be in the same place in a decade.
Resigning gracefully doesn't work as people usually try to talk you out of it (which is how you got here in the first place).
Good Luck Jani
Comment removed based on user account deletion
What is the book? Your post is very interesting and, I believe, very useful. Thank you.
Having read the email, he sounds REALLY unhappy. He probably should have quit a long time ago...
Civilians are caught in the crossfire. That is horrible. But Israel is not purposely "attacking the civilian population" as you allege. Israel is attacking military targets that Hezbollah has purposly intermingled amongst civilians. In fact, Israel has taken pains to inform civilians (and thereby tip off Hezbollah too) before attacks by dropping leaflets that basically say "We know there is a Hezbollah ammo dump here, flee now because we will attack soon". Hezbollah purposely endangers the civilans in Lebanon by hiding amongst them. It does this to 1) make the Israelis pause and be reluctant to immediately attack, and 2) when the Israelis do attack, Hezbollah wants to increase the civilian bodycount so they can say "See all the civilans Israel killed!".
If you want to talk about purposely "Attacking Civilians", then you should be pointing the finger at Hezbollah. They are lobbing unguided missles at Isreali cities. When they launch a missle, they can't tell in advance where it will land other than somewhere inside a city. This is indiscrimate bombing of a civlian population.
No state, including Israel, can tolerate either unprovoked attacks on its military or any attack at all on its civilian population. Hezbollah is not a state. It has no sovereign right to maintain an army or make war. Those are rights restricted to states. Any armed action at all by Hezbollah is illegal. Even if it had the right to maintain an army (which it does not) it engages in tactics that are forbidden by international law (hiding amongst civilians, purposely attacking civilians, etc). It's military arm exists for two illegal reasons : threaten Israel and intimidate other Lebanese.
If Israel stops before Hezbollah is either disarmed or destroyed, it will have a continuing military threat on its border; a threat that indiscriminatly attacks its civilian population. No reasonable state will tolerate that as an end solution.
Here is they way this should play out. The UN has already ordered Hezbollah to disarm. See UN resolution 1559. The resoluation calls for removal of Syrian troops (done), deployment of Lebanese Gov't forces in southern Lebanon, and disbanding of all Lebanese militias (meaning Hezbollah since they are the only one left). Hezbollah has refused to disband and has blocked deployment of the Lebanese Army (Hezbollah is stronger). For resolutation 1559 to be carried out, Hezbollah will have to be forecebly disarmed (by Lebanon [not going to happen], by a UN force [too squimish to happen], or by Israel [now you see what is going on]. Once Hezbollah is disarmed or distroyed, then a new stronger UN force (current UN force is a joke) or NATO force will occupy southern lebanon, and allow the Israelis to withdraw. Once the Israelis (and Hezbollah) are gone, then the Lebanese Army and Police will deploy into the south and secure the border. This is the only long term solution for peace. An immediate cease-fire and return to status-quo-ante is only a recipe for continued periodic warfare. Hezbollah must disarm or be destroyed for long term peace to have a chance.
The tone and context of Mr. Taskinen's message looks uncomfortably familiar. I've seen a number of friends suffer bouts of depression -- for some reason, particularly the bright ones. A talented guy like this has many professional options and there's no reason to exit a project in this way no matter how compelling the reasons to move on. Of course, I could be very wrong. But I would suggest that if one's friend is in such a situtation, it's definitely worth taking the time to talk with the person to see what's going on.
Have the guts to make a judgement. I say that these languages are BUTT ugly and have no capabilities beyond what can be acheived more elegantly with C, C++, Perl, or scheme. Python in particular makes me wretch. Getting bent is a reflex which, when shared by enough people of similar mind, makes systems better.
an ill wind that blows no good
Nice spelling, dude!
Thanks for the support on the grammer[sic] though. Once you work on your spelling, you can move from the kids table and sit with the adults.
Kindness, compassion and a thanks all in one post.
I was thinking the same thing. We have no idea what is going on and frankly it is none of our business. Yes has every right to walk. My only comment to him would simply be Thank you and best wishes.
See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
if i'm angry when i push the send button, i always regret it. go for a walk, split some firewood, or just sit still, but don't send that email. (save it as a draft if necessary, calm down, then delete without sending)
... too bad slashdot doesn't have a "double-friend" category.
ancient chinese wisdom: "act a moment of anger, bring a hundred days of sorrow"
best regards, michael.
ps: i wanted to mark you a "friend" based on this post, but you already were
I just could not care less.
- For every action, there is an equal and opposite criticism.
I've been thinking about revamping the company web site that uses PHP today with rails (as internal site, accessing same db uses Rails). Now I have a very, very good reason.
Boycotting other stuff from Israel, no problem doing it with PHP too.
It's the Israeli that are the modern times Nazis. That old, old excuse for doing whatever the hell they want is waaaay past best before date. It is no longer rooting for the underdog to support the jews, it is cheering on the schoolyard bully (or the new nazis, if you wish).
Israel, the land of "Bomb first, play the victim later"
The Israeli response to the capture of two of it's soldiers reminds me of the Nazi reprisals for the Czech assasination of Reinhard Heydrich. I guess Isreal's leaders learned a lot from them.
Joe-jobs are highly effectively sadly. I was the victim of one in usenet last year. Apparently I'm against the war in Iraq and love kiddy porn. Or at least the irrate emails from dumbass yankees I get claim so....
Someone decided that they had to "take me down a notch" and sent 1000s of usenet posts with my email address. Any technical savvy person can see easily it's a joe-job. Unfortunately, the net is full of really ignorant people who don't get that you can forge the from address really trivially.
Chances are this is also a joe-job.
Tom
Someday, I'll have a real sig.
He wasn't speaking of Physical Stature, but rather Mental.
Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
Sure people have died on both sides, children who will never know the love of their parents, lovers torn apart by blood and shrapnel, but this is PHP damnit! This effects me! We must end this conflict before the development schedule for PHP is effected further!
The world will not get better through technology. We must seek to be better people.
You just proved my point, thank you.
By this logic we could say that Al Queada was attacking the network infrastructure that the USA Govt was using to support the Israeli occupation of Palestine when it attcked the towers in New York. It was unfortunate that some US civilians and business interests were in the way.
OK, so that was pure flamebait. but it's the exact logic being presented to justify the effects that the Israeli operations are having on the Lebanese people. I have no doubt that I'll be modded into hell for this post, but seriously, how many lebanese civilans are being blown up, injured, killed, how many kids are we going to see runing burnt down roads before we ask whether 2 soldiers and however many people in Haifa have been adequately avenged?
Don't try to tell me that Hezbollah is going to be bought under control. That's as likely as the Iraqi people (in general) liking the US occupation of Iraq. Vietnam showed how effective US (and any other) forces are against highly mobile, devoted forces with a popular grassroots backing and rockets.
Perhaps if the US would desist from vetoing almost all UN resolutions that censure Israel, then the various forces around there might be willing to listen to the what the USA has to say. Until then I find a general ceasefire about as likely as the US general population supporting invading Cuban troops in the event they invaded to "liberate" the American workers.
Now someone mod me down - will I get "Troll", "Flamebait" or "Offtopic"?
BTW - I am not an anti-semite. My wife is of semitic descent (so she tells me), and hence so are my children. So take your politically correct screams away. Just because the USA has a collective guilt complex over their tardiness to get involved in WWII in Europe does not justify all adverse comments about the stste of Israeli being considered anti-semitic. OK, so this paragraph flamebait, but a hell of a lot of people wonder why the USA was so willing to let things go as far as they did in Europe at that time, when everyone knew pretty much what was going on.
To: All speculating asshats
The e-mail says (All the ones that matter) probably know why.
You are not the ones that matter.
So fuck off.
-- 'The' Lord and Master Bitman On High, Master Of All
I believe you are misusing 'unique' when you should be using 'rare': Of an unique item there is only one; Of a rare item there may only be a small number in proportion to general availability; An ubiquitous item may be found everywhere.
I'm sure the first person who had the idea of landing on the moon was initially thought of as an idiot was well...
When first thought of, I doubt that the human race had even developed language to communicate the idea.
hahahaha
As an Italian I would be honoured to be among Semitic peoples, but we happen to be indoeuropean too.
I agree that anti-semitic is horrifyingly abused, especially by the Israeli government who comprehensibly want to use a strong argument against anyone opposing them exploiting the past history of Europe. But this gradually weakens the racist connotation of the term, and gradually makes it political. The Nazis wanted to kill Jews because their leaders told them the Jews, all Jews, were the root of all evil. Now children hear the word anti-semite applied on people who criticise the bombing of Beirut. A few more years and people will start calling themselves anti-semite in the sense of anti-Israeli-government...
The funny thing, actual anti-semites are immune from all this. I never heard Israel berating Poland, where "genuine", old-style anti-semitism is still in (even though there are no more Jews left, but you don't need a brain to be racist). Not that I am an expert on Poland, but there were a few articles in the news some weeks ago. In Italy, Silvio Berlusconi is seem as more Israel-friendly than left-wing Romano Prodi, even though Berlusconi was allied to the worst and most hardline fascists in the recent election, including former terrorists, naziskins and holocaust deniers like Luca Romagnoli.
Victims of 9/11: <3000. Traffic in the US: >30,000/y
Dude. That's a Finnish male on totally euphoric batch of Prozac, unable to contain his laughter. He's happy as a clam. You should see him when he's unhappy.
Since we are already degenerating into pedantry here:
No, not everything is unique at the quantum level.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boson
That was unkind. So, you think you can guage someones general (un)happiness from a photo? You must be a mind reader. I can make equivelent generalizations as to YOUR usual (un)pleasantness from this single reply!
EGAD!
Reality is nothing but a collective hunch.
"Israel has taken pains to inform civilians (and thereby tip off Hezbollah too) before attacks by dropping leaflets that basically say "We know there is a Hezbollah ammo dump here, flee now because we will attack soon"."
Well thats one way to look at it. Another way would be that isreal is doing this to terrorize civilians into leaving their homes and encouraging them to live in a constant state of fear (btw this is what terrorism means). This article talks about isreali commanders basically panicing people to move out, and then calling back an hour later saying "be safe".
Personally im glad that white people are starting to say this shit. Even if its just some obscure PHP developer. Isreal has had carte blanche by basically everyone for way too long. Their treatment of palestine and their use of chemical weapons is highly documented. Even if the only chemical they are using out there is white phosphorus, thats still mighty disgusting. ( i know the USA and british use it as well but thats another topic ).
"No state, including Israel, can tolerate either unprovoked attacks on its military or any attack at all on its civilian population. Hezbollah is not a state. It has no sovereign right to maintain an army or make war. Those are rights restricted to states."
Im sorry but just because your bigger and more "official" doesnt give you the right to slaughter an entire country. One persons terrorist is another persons freedom fighter. Im sure the first americans would have been regarded the same way by england as isreal regards the people of palestine, lebanon, syria, iran and hezbola.
Who the hell cares if hezbollah isnt a state in and of itself? Hamas was democratically elected but isreal didnt care about them either. If hezbollah got 90% of the vote in lebanon, would you then recognize their desire to defend themselves? or would you still consider them not a state sanctioned organization.
What this all comes down to is a new isreali president/prime minster flexing his muscle at the expense of civilian lives and with a cost to us all (unless you thought that airlifting and cruise shipping civilians out was free). Will isreal reimburse the governments of the states that had to spend tax payers money evacuating citizens? Or will the USA give more money and arms to isreal so that they can continue the slaughter.
Fuck isreal indeed.
I'll just use my special getting high powers one more time...
Our tastes are similar then. What about Lisp?
an ill wind that blows no good
It would be more fair to say that 9/10 of the killed were from Lebanon. The bias of USA media in middle-east affairs amazes me often. (I'm from Finland/Europe)
I agree with your sentiment, but people deserve better than being judged by their outbursts of rage, frustration or prejudice too.
I hope my PHP enabled webserver doesn't blow up...
I'm also happy to unleash red-hot hate against emacs (which I use anyway) and "asm-alpha" screwing up my tab-complete for "asm-arm"
1. If Hezbollah has a "popular grassroots backing", then the innocent civilians aren't so innocent.
2. If 1 is not true, then the innocent civilians should a. not have voted for Hezbollah and b. aided in the removal of Hezbollah before it got this bad.
In other words...
If the military branch of Hezbollah really represents the people of Lebanon, then they should be labeled as the Lebanese military and any action taken by them should be seen as action from the sovereign state of Lebanon.
If the military branch of Hezbollah does not represent the people of Lebanon, then they should be labeled as an enemy of the Lebanese government, and the Lebanese government should request help in extracting them.
There is no acceptable middle ground. Israel is playing by the rules that the entire world plays by- its military wears uniforms, and the military's actions are clearly actions of the Israeli government (and by proxy, the Israeli people). Those are the fair rules. Groups like Hezbollah merely hide behind semantics so that nobody can be held accountable. The Israeli government has a responsibility to make sure that its civilians are safe, and part of this responsiblity is to deter violent foreign actions.
By all means, if anybody can think of a better way for Israel to accomplish this goal, then they should speak up. Diplomacy doesn't work, since these militant groups have no backing for their deals. There is no incentive for them to keep their end since they aren't "responsible" for any civilian population. Israel stopped its occupation of Lebanon, but now the militants aren't satisfied with that peace deal anymore... They'll always find new reasons to attack, and they don't face the consequences of a nation-backed military.
Buckle your ROFL belt, we're in for some LOLs.
...he finally found a girlfriend?
free software, open standards, open file formats, no software patents.
like civilian airports ? power stations ? sewage works ?
pretty big targets to be hit "accidentally".
In fact, Israel has taken pains to inform civilians
And then killed them when they flee their homes in response to those warnings.
And then attacked red cross ambulances evacuating the wounded.
And attacked the UN convoys taking aid to those too frightened to move.
And the unarmed UN observers (in a bunker, apparently detroyed by precision guided weapon, after repeated requests from the UN not to hit those coordinates).
And then shelled the UN rescue effort for the observers.
Sure, Hezbolla is throwing back random unguided rockets, but the IDF does not have that excuse, they are supposedly using modern precision guided weapons, it's pretty hard to believe all these are all accidentally off-target.
Finally, today's news quote:
So, in their own words, this is defintely purposeful.
Fact is neither side cares about civilian lives.
Okay, fine. So the World Trade Center was a legitimage military target. And so was the pentagon. But was a military attack against the USA justified? Obviously, no. But you don't be lieve in right or wrong? Then you need to ask, should they have attacked the USA? The strategic is again, even more obviously, no. If might makes right, then the USA is so right that it is morally wrong to attack it. But if weakness makes right, then you're better off being wrong and strong. So even moral relativism says you shouldn't do it.
If "one person's terrorist is another person's freedom fighter" it's a simple matter to look at the evidence and decide which one is right.
Israel is not the weak little victim in this conflict.
I'll ignore your first rant about how Jews should get over the slaughter of 6 million of their people circa 1940 and focus on the inaccurate statement quoted above.
Israel is in fact the weak little victim in this conflict. This is a proxy war - the real player is Iran and to a lesser extent Syria. There's little positive in this conflict for Hezbullah. The only ones that benefit truly from this are the leaders of Iran and they plan on pushing this conflict as far as they can.
I'm a big tall mofo.
You go to war on day 1, and there is 1 accidental civilian death. The running probability of accidental civilian deaths increases.
You go to war on day 2, and there is 1 accidental civilian death. The running probability of accidental civilian deaths increases.
You go to war on day 3, and there is 1 accidental civilian death. The running probability of accidental civilian deaths increases.
Logically, there must come a point where the probability of an accidental civilian death approaches 100%. Therefore, arriving at that point, the aggressors make a conscious decision: either continue the war tomorrow with near 100% probability of an accidental civilian death, or halt the attacks and refrain from causing accidental deaths.
(In reality, there is more than just one accidental civilian death per day, and there are more than just 3 consecutive days of attacks. Look the numbers up for yourself if you are interested -- they are quite astonishing, making the "advance warning" attempt at justification look absurd.)
In conclusion, I'd say it's quite reasonable to accuse Israel or the US of purposely attacking the civilian population. Come to think of it, the accusation is downright correct.
I think many of you guys need to readjust your sense of proportionality. This guy has most likely done more to both world peace _and_ open source world than 99% of the whiners on this forum.. and now you are mocking him for not revealing some interpersonal issues and saying ill-considered things in chat *once* when obviously being out of his mind.
Consider this. That guy has
1) worked deeply on a project for six years and has just made a decision to quit it,
2) has just lost a coworker in a bit questionable series of events,
3) is obviously depressed or burned out or both,
4) is constantly under threat while serving in hostile country with no infrastructure of whatsoever and having to remain calm and peaceful while in desperate situation and underpowered,
5) has had harder than normal time in service past six months and
6) people are blaming you for not answering their *software project* emails fast enough, when you have been busy with things 4 and 5.
If you can say you have experienced even *half* of these, let alone simultaneously and are willing to come up and admit it, *then* I can take you seriously when you come and say that you didn't say anything unprintable in that situation. Maybe.
And also remember: english is not his native language. It's more than a bit hypocritical to judge someone you have not even met by his writing in *chat* in *foreign language*, especially when the chat log is spread without his consent by someone who is not willing to reveal his name, nor the context of the discussion.
http://iki.fi/zds/
I regret not mentioning that the [current] opponents of Israel or the US are no better: the main difference is that they actually admit to purposely killing civilians.
(Of course, when I say "Israel" or "the US" I am referring to the power elite who run the government and who actually make the decision to go to war, NOT the Israeli or US civilians who hold no such power.)
Violent racism is such an ugly thing.
As to murdering Jews in retaliation for a dead UN officer: Finland sent shiploads of Jews to Auschwitz during WWII. And we (I'm a Finn) didn't do that by accident, we knew well what we were doing. So if Mr. Taskinen is keeping score, we are still the bad guys by a huge margin.
Just so that we all know who should be nuked.
Fatal error: Call to undefined function: ()
(Function names do not have $ in front of them. $str_replace is treated like a string variable that contains the name of a function you wish to call, similar to C's function pointers.)
Sad if it's about the current war in the ME. Nationalisim is basically nothing more than a mass-psychosis, with fanatisim and fundametalisim being the extremer variants. Conducted by a few who know each other well to have millions of people who don't know each other compete or fight.
You'd expect a high profile OSS dev intelligent enough to shake it.
The ones that deserve to be shot are Nasralla, some back-room Zionists and a few old-school fanatic muslims in Gaza and Syria. The rest would get along quite well actually. Just the other day I saw a newsfeed where an israeli arab (sitting in a cafe with his jewish friend) hit it on the spot (paraphrased): "It's allways gouverments and organisations fighting. The common people just what to live in peace, sip their cafe and play backgammon. Jews, Muslims and whomever else."
True that is.
Let's hope this crap is over soon and the maniacs fit's come to an end.
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
Yeah, Hezbollah sure did a great job hiding bridges and electrical sub-stations and roads among civilians... *roll*
A partial quote of the log from a trusted member of the PHP community with a timestamp not included in my quote.
http://news.php.net/php.internals/25044
I hope this settles any speculation about who is or is not a Mossad agent fabricating stories to destroy the internet.
The burning question for me is why the UN observers were not pulled from the area when Israel began operations -- especially when the terrorists in that area have a history of embedding themselves among civilians and non-combatants. Someone should be sacked, if not jailed, for this incompetence.
Follow up emails from other folks mentioned he was ranting about the blown up UN post and one of the other guys was talking about quitting because PHP was backed by some Israeli company. Stupid politics. I understand having principles, but unless a relative was blowed up as well, then he should quit crying and get back to work. It's not as if Israel decided to invade on a whim and I doubt they blew up the UN post on purpose.
Terrible karma and aiming lower, which in this environment of one-sided reason, is higher.
http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=php-dev&m=11276523 5813680&w=2
PECL? Isn't that the trashcan CVS module in which
we move all the extensions that nobody uses / maintains / etc. ?
I'm also getting sick and tired of fixing the build and
seeing the fixes reverted.
Please remove my CVS account if you touch the karma.
I don't want to have anything to do with this nazi project
after that.
--Jani
When people leave with notes like that, it says one thing loud and clear "EGO EGO EGO". PHP will rebound and maybe they won't get someone as bright to take his place but they **will get someone**. As long as that person can play well with others and shares in the vision instead of wanting to rewrite the vision, then the whole project will continue and people will keep using that strange language that powers the ether between client and server.
Where's the 0xBEEF
That phrase probably originated from something like "I could care less, if I REALLY tried". I just think that some people didn't find it the second part all that necessary.
Pisses me off every time I see it.
Send email from the afterlife! Write your e-will at Dead Man's Switch.
My understanding is that Jani Taskinen had ties to the UN and Zend has Israeli roots. So when the Israel forces accidentally killed the UN watchers, Taskinen resigned.
Consider this a rant but might be worth seeing anyways.
http://209.67.212.138/~lebanon/
as many readers of this forum are american, you just might give some thinking about what kind of support your republican gov is giving to what kind of animals?
...but somehow I think that his build of PHP probably didn't come from an RPM.
USE HOT GRITS WITH STATUE OF NATALIE PORTMAN (NAKED AND PETRIFIED)
Now what were we arguing about?
So they will basically fire on illegal rocket launchers with ... rockets.
... wait ... in this case ... who fires first ?
... you might get shot. This is not strange. This is not a crime of the people who kill you "in retaliation". This is not revenge. This is the police trying to control the damage by killing you. If you give them no alternative, this is what will happen.
e li-Palestinian_conflict#Use_of_Children
So firing rockets is bad. But
So Israel only retaliates in response to a criminal act.
If you pull a gun on an armed man/woman (or for that matter, unarmed man/woman) in, wel, just about any country, and start firing
And if you really want to know how ethical organizations like Hezbollah/Hamas are, this link should open your eyes : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violence_in_the_Isra
like civilian airports ? power stations ? sewage works ?
You must recognize that Hezbollah is like a geographical province, in addition to an ideological organization, with its own quasi-government and all. Those targets, and also notably, main roads and bridges, were indeed targets. That bombing was intentional. It was necessary to prevent Hezballah from being resupplied by Iran and Syria. Probably also to crush morale. That helps to make for a short[er] war.
And then killed them when they flee their homes in response to those warnings.
1) They waited too long to evacuate? 2) They were terrorists? 3) In any event, they voted for terrorists in the last election (Hamas, Fatah, Islamic Jihad, etc.); they supported terrorists.
And then attacked red cross ambulances evacuating the wounded.
Red Cross/UN ambulances are used as terrorist attack vehicles in the Gaza strip, and, therefore, are a legitimate target. Google for some of the videos. I just watched a new one today, but I don't have time to find the link. (Shabbat coming)
And attacked the UN convoys taking aid to those too frightened to move.
If you walk out onto a battlefield, you just might get shot. Shocking.
And the unarmed UN observers (in a bunker, apparently destroyed by precision guided weapon, after repeated requests from the UN not to hit those coordinates).
Those four UN observers were in a building that was adjacent to a Hezballah command post. The only question is whether they were intentionally being human shields for the terrorists or if they were just plain stupid. (Actually, the latter is a given, in any case.)
And then shelled the UN rescue effort for the observers.
I didn't hear about that. Accidents happen in war. Guaranteed. Hezballah accidentally killed two Israeli Arabs; they apologized and called them "shahids" (martyrs) in the war against Israel. Both sides kill people they didn't intend to kill.
The Israeli military's radio station in south Lebanon today warned that the army "will totally destroy any village from which missiles are fired toward Israel".
Meanwhile, Hezballah attacks Israeli cities that did not fire missiles toward Lebanon. Haifa? Ashkelon? Nazareth? The Arabs are even attacking the Galilee region, which is mostly Muslim! (since they drove out the Jews and Christians) They attack every Israeli city that their missiles can possibly reach. That is their only limitation on violence.
Fact is neither side cares about civilian lives.
Sheba Medical Center to treat Lebanese for free
But was a military attack against the USA justified? Obviously, no.
From the perspective of the people who see the USA as the greatest force of evil in the world today attacks against the USA are justified. This doesnt mean that you (probably an American) would think it justified, to you it's obviously no. And myself, who thinks that the American Culture is a very very bad thing for the planet in general, dont think that such an attack was justified. But to many who see the USA actively working to destroy and dismantle their cultures, attacks on the USA are seen as moves to protect morality and their right to choose their government and religion.
Keep in mind that to a lot of people on this planet "The American Way" is viewed as a nightmare, not a dream.
You must recognize that Hezbollah is like a geographical province, in addition to an ideological organization, with its own quasi-government and all. Those targets, and also notably, main roads and bridges, were indeed targets. That bombing was intentional.
That doesn't change the fact that for example sewage works is civilian infrastructure. And nondiscriminating use of force, targeting civilians or civialian structures is forbidded as a war crime.
1) They waited too long to evacuate? 2) They were terrorists? 3) In any event, they voted for terrorists in the last election (Hamas, Fatah, Islamic Jihad, etc.); they supported terrorists.
This doesn't matter. Voting for non popular party doesn't turn civilian to a legimite target of war. If it was true, then you could argue that attacing the civilians of Israel (or US) would be allowed, as they have voted for example Bush or Sharon/Olmert. And the same is also true for evacuation. There is no responsibility for civilians to evacuate, and even if they stay or are slow to evacuate from southern Lebanon or northern Israel, you aren't allowed to target them.
And Israel has often claimed that ambulances has been used as a method of warfare, but at least many in many cases of these claims have been later proved to be lies.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
You seem to understand sets. That puts you somewhat above the average slashdot reader. But your analogy is senseless. Python, PHP, or Ruby offer no new capabilities over the group I mentioned. If you know otherwise, please enlighten me. The GNU system can hardly be called a monoculture if you discard the PPR crap. I am not opposed to new languages. Just over specialized, broken, and confused ones.
an ill wind that blows no good
Which part of "will totally destroy any village from which missiles are fired toward Israel" did you not understand? To use your analogy: you pull a gun on an armed person, and that person shoots you and everyone who happens to be standing near you. And that's not supposed to be a crime? By that same logic, the USA would have been completely justified in carpet-bombing Afghanistan with nukes after 9/11. Heck, since Osama is still at large and supposedly in Pakistan, your logic says that the total destruction of Pakistan is justified.
You see, he actually is a member of the Illuminati and he has recently ascended to one of its highest ranks. This sudden change, while a result of a unsavory elements within, was completely unexpected.
However, it has been rumored that he has been secretly imbedding secret code for the last several years that he will use as part of the organizations final plans.... stay tuned.
Nice pics. Do we really need to start posting pictures of the results of suicide bombers to rebut? You show pics of innocents being killed - which are very similar to the pics we've been seeing for years when some Palestinian douche with a deathwish blows himself up at a restaurant or bus stop in Israel.
Face it. Lebanon and Palestine started it, Israel is finishing it.
I kid, I kid. There was recent ruckus about whether or not 'Perl is dying' on Perlmonks. Both languages are quite viable. Let's not start that whole ugly discussion agin. Please. Take my wife.
I think it's evident where slashdot kids stand on matters of whether Israelis or Jewish people have a right to not be murdered. FWIW, this thread has come as somewhat of a shock for me. Really, nothing has changed since 1939. Nothing.
I'll be deleting slashdot from my bookmarks now and I certainly don't plan on coming back. Ever.
Buh-bye.
Palestinians, Lebanese, and Arabs have the right to take back the defend themselves from an invading foreign body of Zionist thugs.
Exactly. Well written!
I'm going to sign up now to take courses in ASP, C# and .NET
and I could or could not care less or care more if you care.
Final 2006 "Proof of Global Warming" US Hurricane Count -> 0
aah .. that's why bogus bot seemed so inactive lately ...
Here are some facts so everybody can stop guessing and hopefully we can put an end to this stupid thread. (although it has been amusing to see these analogies made between me and Linus :)
:(
:). In 2004 I served in Kosovo and currently I'm serving in Afghanistan.
:) Most of the work and energy I've spend on getting rid of bogus bug reports. And sometimes even fixing an odd bug here and there..
:/
1. I did have that rant on IRC after coming from bar and reading the news about the UN security council's decision not to condemn the attack on the UN post. The channel was public so I don't hold it against anybody for posting the log.
Doing that I didn't really think anybody was listening, just using the (wrong) channel for getting some steam out. I apologize for the wrong choice of words in "fuck jews" where it should have been "fuck israel". And of course I mean the government of Israel when I say "I'm anti-israel". I have friends who are jews and it does not bother me at all. Hopefully they don't get offended by those remarks I made..
2. I have been in Lebanon (1998-1999) serving as a peacekeeper for one year (+ one day
3. In Lebanon I did NOT serve in the same post that was bombed. It was an OGL post and I served in UNIFIL. I don't personally know the fellow finnish peacekeeper that died. I know a lot of peacekeepers (from many countries too) and if any of them got killed, I'd feel as bad as if my brother/sister was killed.
4. I am not lead developer of anything. Neither are most of the people listed on zend.com that have this weird generated "CV" from CVS commits added to their profile. (I have complained about it to Zend people at least once
5. I did quit PHP the project but the bombing of the UN post was just some sort of "last straw". I've been trying to quit the project for a long time. Sounds like a bad habit? Yes, exactly. I just realized that how insignificant it all is. And I really need to concentrate on LIVING more. Hence the quitting. (PHP folks: PLEASE remove the CVS account..otherwise I might get tempted to direct my browser again to the bugs.php.net..). I tried NOT to provoke exactly these kinds of discussions by stating "Do not reply" and not stating what the last straw was. And here we are.
I have been shot at/near/over and pointed by guns by both IDF and some lebanese militia(s) and I can assure you that I don't have any warm feelings to neither party right now. Both have been/are killing innocent civilians (for different reasons) and I condemn both for causing the unnecessary deaths of 4 unarmed UN observers. Back in 1999 both sides attacked finnish UN posts. Nobody died just because of very good luck..now we run out of that luck.
Anyway, I'll go enjoy LIFE now.
At least 10 phone calls were made to Israeli commanders over a period of six hours warning that artillery and aerial bombardments were either dangerously close to or hitting the monitors' building.
l
The UN post, in Khaim just inside south Lebanon, was clearly marked and well-known to the army, but nonetheless it was hit directly four times in the last hour before an Israeli helicopter fired a precision-guided missile that tore through the roof of an underground shelter, killing the monitors inside. A UN convoy that arrived too late to rescue the peacekeepers was also fired on.
Source: http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article5299.shtm
If I were working in Israel now I would have terminate any contract/project and leave that fascist country. No wonder if Jini is angry and shocked with it.
It is not stupid. I am neither lebanese nor muslim, nor visited Lebanon ever, but I see that Israel is a fascist state now. And Israeli people seem to support these war crimes. From now on I would avoid cooperating/dealing with any israeli company/business. This is what I call a civil resistance. I would like to avoid supporting Israel directly or indirectly. They are fascists.
Voting for non popular party doesn't turn civilian to a legimite target of war.
Voting for terrorists makes you a legitimate target.
If it was true, then you could argue that attacing the civilians of Israel (or US) would be allowed, as they have voted for example Bush or Sharon/Olmert.
Bush and Olmert are not terrorists. The Party of Allah (Hezballah) is.
And Israel has often claimed that ambulances has been used as a method of warfare, but at least many in many cases of these claims have been later proved to be lies.
I don't know that any claims have been proven false, but thanks anyway for agreeing with my position: Islamists in the Mediterranean region have in fact used UN ambulances for terror operations. As for mere "claims," how about watching some videos?
Voting for terrorists makes you a legitimate target.
No it doesn't. And voting for Bush, who started illegal war against Iraq which is a war crime and used terror bombing (shock & awe), doesn't make United States civilians legimate war targets. If you disagree, please support your claim quotiong Geneva convention or some other established international rules of warfare. Besides, not even all Lebanese civilians that have been killed indiscriminately by Israel, have voted for Hezbollah.
Open dialogue is quite clearly the most fruitful approach. Obviously, an idea is not a solution if it doesn't work, and pragmatism must reign. I feel somewhat presumptuous offering solutions since I am not an expert on this topic, but rather a long time, devoted amateur. What I am proposing is that people reconsider the facts.
m
m
Hezbollah is a frightening force, no rational person would argue that Israel should not have responded to Hezbollah's attacks. The question I propose is: what Israeli response would have most benefitted Israelis? Hezbollah attacked and kidnapped Israeli soldiers and launched and handful of rockets at Israel. Most of the world condemned this action, including Saudi Arabia. When Israel started attacking, most of the Arab world held back their usual criticism for a bit. Here was great opportunity to try something different.
Since the beginnings of Israel's offensive, almost 2000 rockets have hit Israel, and 52 Israelis (33 soldiers and 19 civilians) have been killed. Does anyone actually think that there would have been more deaths and more rockets if Israel had not attacked? It looks quite clear that this attack against Lebanon has actually contributed towards increasing Israeli deaths and increasing the damage inflicted on Israel.
"Forty-five Israelis were killed in Palestinian militant attacks in 2005, the Israeli internal security agency Shin Bet has reported..." "377 Qassam rockets" were launched towards Israel. "The main reason for the decline, Shin Bet said, was the informal truce observed by some Palestinian groups."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4574720.st
To put this into perspective, Israel as a nation without the occupied territories has a population of about 6.2 million. Just over 500 Israelis (civilians and soldiers) have died from the current intifada, 2000-2005, in Israel, so about 85 people per year. So that's a murder rate of about 1.4 per 100,000 residents for Israel. There are roughly 400,000 Israelis in the occupied territories, and if you add in the Israeli deaths from the occupied territories, you get 950, or 158 per year. That makes a rate of 2.4 per 100,000 residents.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3694350.st
Now let's look at U.S crime rates for 2000 (all in per 100,000 residents):
http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/nycrime.htm
California: 6.1
New York: 5.0
Georgia: 3.3
Oregon: 2.0
Connecticut: 2.9
Vermont: 1.5
So looking at murder rates, Israel is safer than Vermont. Including the occupied territories, Israel is still quite a bit safer than Connecticut or Georgia.
So why do Israel's much lower murder rates justify such drastic action? Fear is a powerful motivator, and I do not doubt that the fear of suicide bombers and Hezbollah attacks that people feel is real. So the question really is, who actually benefits from Israeli military attacks? I think that most of the 90+ percent of Israelis who support this current action do not. Throughout the world, fear mongering has proven to be a very effective means for politicians to gain and keep power, I don't think this works differently in the Middle East.
NGOs that take sides ... Enjoying what is know as the "halo effect," few if any journalists or diplomats bother to check the details, biases or credibility of NGO claims.
The perversity of today's international outcry lies in the fact that there is indeed a disproportion in this war, a radical moral asymmetry between Hezbollah and Israel: Hezbollah is deliberately trying to create civilian casualties on both sides while Israel is deliberately trying to minimize civilian casualties, also on both sides. ... Lebanese innocents must also die in order for Israel to be demonized, which is why Hezbollah hides its fighters, its rockets, its launchers, its entire infrastructure among civilians.
'Civilian Casualty'? It Depends
Why is killing Lebanese people by Israel - a war crime, while exactly the same thing, which is - killing Israelis by Lebanese people, is not?
And let's not forget that the UN people (the very same people) assisted terrorists with kidnapping and murdering 3 Israeli soldiers who didn't do ANYTHING to ANYONE.
What about the great United States of America, who killed thousands of innocents in Iraq? Let's quit all open-source projects who are led by people from the US.
Or to sum it up - "war crimes" are OK, as long as they're not done by Israel.
http://www.videobomb.com/posts/show/3403
this documentary video explains how israelis cover their dirty sins
u = 6.0f; if( isnan(i) ) i = free(man);
WTH!?!?
This is clearly not C/C++ since "free" is a void function...
Is it a name?
Yousef Isnani Freeman?
As a pretty faithfully committed and studious Christian, I agree with you that many - perhaps most - people who claim to be Christians are ignorant of the teachings of the Christian faith.
:)
Christianity most certainly claims that the only way to relationship with God - and access to His nature (love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, gentleness, and self-control) - comes from a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. Anyone who rejects this concept is, by his choice, separated from God and all that is good for all eternity. This is essential to the core of Christianity.
I have an issue with your ideas about tolerance, though. Philosophically speaking, any time anyone claims to speak "truth" they are saying that any idea that disagrees with their premise is "un-true." (Unless you're a relativist, but that brings a whole host of other problems - the law of non-contradiction forces you to discard the idea of relative truth pretty quickly.)
If you insist on opposition to any "intolerant" views, you yourself become intolerant of the views to which you object because you are setting yourself up as a truth standard against which other views are measured. Should we then become intolerant of your intolerance?
Also, I'll take issue with your word "intolerance." Christianty is completely tolerant of people who do not accept Christianity. We don't hate ANYONE. Everyone is free to hold whatever views they like, and we will not oppress them (unless it contradicts a core tenet of our world view - like your right to a view which says it's OK to murder me. As a Christian, and as a person, I am pretty intolerant of that.)
I think that clear evidence of this is seen here in the US. Whether the founding fathers were actual Christians or not, the extreme majority of people in the US at the time of the founding of this nation were Christians, and it is fair to say that the Christian values are well represented by our form of government.
This nation demonstrates that people are really free to practice their religious views here. Look at countries where Christian views were not a part of the formation of the culture and the governmental organization - show me a country like that where diversity of religious views flourishes like it does in the US. I would suggest to you that is precisely because of Christian tolerance.
Tolerance (according to the classic definition) says that I can disagree with your view and tolerate it's existence. In the popular culture today, that word has been twisted to mean if you disagree with another person's idea, you're doing a bad thing. It's total Newspeak. Orwell would be proud.
But Herr Heisenberg, how does the electron know when I'm looking?
Could someone either mod parent up or have an update made to the article text itself? There is no reason the individual can't speak for themselves and be heard and read with priority instead of people doing commentary on their older comments!