I always here people parrot that we helped fund Al-Qadea to fight the soviets. Do you have any resources that could lend a little strength to this argument? I have yet to see anything but conspiracy theorist-wack-jobs claiming this with any true sincereity.
I am completely willing to believe it, I even don't doubt it much.. but I haven't seen much proof. That kind of thing also isn't very popular to discuss for major media outlets, so I doubt CNN will pick up news like that...ever.
Ehh ok. I don't remember where I heard it. I haven't watched the older star wars in a long time:) Anyway, I wasn't claiming it was some great philosphy. Just seemed apt:)
It reminds me of a saying I was told when I was young: friends are like sand in your hand. The tighter you squeeze the sand the more it just slips through your fingers.
The harder you try to control something the less control you really end up having, holds true for a lot of things. It is a pretty simple thought but the harder you squeeze people the more willing and likely they are to fight back.
Interesting. This reminds me of a case I read about. A guy gets called buy his friend, asks him to come get him from the police station. The friend comes and gets him and takes him to his car. The person picked up from jail proceeds to later that evening kill someone in his vehicle. The friend is then prosecuted for some very serious felony (negligent manslaughter or something, I don't remember exactly).
The catch? The guy the cops picked up was drunk. After his friend came and got him he went and drank some more and killed himself and someone else in a DUI accident. Is the friend responsible if he knew the person had been drinking? What about if the friend didn't know? The cops never told him why he was arrested. The prosecutors are basically saying it would take a moron to not notice, and that is why the friend is responsible.
Something to think on. I was at a party and I noticed people coming and going, some of them possibly drunk. They then proceed to go kill someone. Now I can get charged with the murder! (That is, if this case goes through). I think it was a hung jury twice, and the prosecution probably wont go for a third time.
I believe you can analyze the data pretty accurately. If you have one data report of traffic flowing at 55mph, and then suddenly nothing... uh oh we got a pile up. There is also statistical data you can use, plus common sense. If it is 5pm in Atlanta and traffic is not moving on 285 it is bad news.
Some of the time people are placed into positions they can't possibly manage. For instance: I was just out of high school and a full time student, and did not make a lot of money. I was hospitalized, and my parent's insurance covered ~80% of my bill. It costs around 13K to have emergency surgery and a week long stay at a hospital.
At the time I had absolutely *no* credit. The bills were never sent to me until they were already in collection. Despite futile attempts to have it changed, it stayed in collection. No credit minus 4K dollars in accounts that are in collection = *BAD CREDIT*. My fault? I suppose if you can blame something I didn't really have any control over. My parents couldn't afford my hospital bill, so it was left to me. Oh well right? My fault, I bought the surgery after all.. I knew for sure I couldn't afford it, but I wen't and did it anyway. I suppose I am weak for wanting to stay alive.;)
I am just trying to show.. there are situations that occur that are beyond control. That is life.
I don't completely agree with that. Just because a client is not completely a technical genius they can still impose technical requirements. Some of the time it actually makes sense. Some clients might have plans for future interoperability, or anything. If a client makes a request, especially something so generic as using Java and XML, the development team is being payed to honor that request within reasonable limits.
Some of the time a client picking a language and implementation details can be a real PAIN! Yet, there are almost always circumstances, possibly just silly bias, that cause them to ask for this. Maybe they are planning to have development staff capable of handling that application. Maybe they already have a development staff that could only maintain an application written in Java. Maybe they don't want MS technology in their apps. I don't think it is always fair to assume someone imposing a request on a developer is immediately wrong. The client is *always* right. Even if they are right and it is doomed to fail. I don't think using Java and XML doom a project to fail.
Anyway, some of the time it is easier to go with the flow as a software development company;)
Well, I looked at their options. I think it actually simplifies the process of weighing the benefits and drawbacks. If I have a project, I have in mind the kind of ways I want to let other people use my software. Regardless of whatever license is out there, I know my intent with a project. I know how I want others to be able to use it. As a creator you should definitely know at least what your goal is with the project and how, if at all, you want to let the source be used.
Having a set of options, if they meet my criteria for how I want my project to be used makes it much easier. If it covers the key points of what I want a license to cover why should I have to worry with the gory details of a license if one already exists?
I think it is really more of a question that people should think more clearly about how they want their projects to be used. It is not really a question of licensing. Licensing is just a way to see your "vision" come to fruition. I don't see license as what set off a vision, just a means to a particular end.
I am simply asking one question: where do you stop? Do we need to judge the lethality of everyday items, and what they are used for. You could EASILY kill 20 people in moments with a car, if you really wanted to. Firearms in general can kill people easier. It only takes a creative mind to find a way to kill a lot of people with practically anything. If they really hate the world they will. Firearms just let people act out their violence in a particular fashion. That is why I feel it is silly. If someone is going to go on a bloody rampage, they will. Maybe killing fewer or more people without a firearm.
The steel pole was just one example on the other end of the spectrum on an every day item that could be lethal.
Why the discussion board naming. It's like you are challenging others to respond to me. They will without the encouragement, I am sure.
I only take issue with point 4 of yours. Where do you stop with "There is one less place to buy parts for things used to kill people.?" Already manufactured parts? What about those companies that make steel, used to kill people in a variety of ways. Cars kill people. Guns kill people. Steel poles used to bludgeon someone kill people. I am not slagging Google here, they are a private company that can run the way they see fit.
I am just curios where you really stop with something like, "things used to kill people". It seems a little asanine and weak to me. Maybe it needs to be: there is one less place to buy parts for firearms, which are not manufactured specifically for killing people. That is reality. I know guns are mis-used, but that doesn't mean they are sold and consumed (in general) with the intent to kill people.
Well I realize the human mind can process limited amounts of information, but that doesn't stop the information and events from occuring at speeds beyond real-time comprehension.
Another of my favorite responses to the threads about games where people get hung up on FPS.
Goes something like..
"That is nothing, I can get several trillion polygons with billions of colors at thousands of frames per second! It is called outside, you should try it some time. Check out the cool wind special effects some time as well;)"
Making a civic out-run a Ferrari would cost no more than 10-15K + MSRP much less than an equivalent F. Now if you want to compare the overall quality and driveability of the F to the equivalently speedy Civic you might have a valid comparison. If speed is your thing your thing you can do a lot with very little money (relative to a high cost production car like a Ferrari).
I have a Mustang that I have spent no more than 8K on. It puts out ~475rwhp. Teamed up with an aggressive final drive ratio and very few production cars can stand up to a Mustang like that. Gas mileage plain sucks and city driving would suck without the 6spd:-) No garauntees on the engine life or anything but I will gladly spend the money again when I burn up my mostly stock motor:)
The point? Bad analogy;)
I know this could be considered splitting hairs since your point is the task is a little extreme. However a more valid comparison would be completely changing all road sides and what they mean and then making the steering column of cars on the right side of the car. That would probably be closer to how it is for people coming to Linux from a Windows+MS Office environment.
I was speaking of Java in general, not Java on FreeBSD. I do realize it is not the greatest on FreeBSD. I just had broad sweeping statements about a language in general. The language is capable. Implementations may vary some.
I do accept that. I am just trying to nullify some of the sweeping generlizations made that cast Java and Java based solutions in an mis-shone bad light. I don't have a true pet language. I have used Perl, even recently in production, to provide things that would just be difficult without the wide base of available modules for Perl. Perl is light weight, runs anywhere (arguably more places, and better, than Java) and it can be optimized rather well for many environments. I have used PHP for many projects when J2EE just didn't fit. I have used J2EE when it was truely required and it fit best with the requirements of the project. I am not a language biggot. I simply take issue to generalizations that aren't *generally* true. FreeBSD is a Java weak point. Yahoo using PHP boosts its credit level. I am not saying PHP was not the right choice for Yahoo.. it probably was. They probably invested many man hours into this decision. All is well:)
Let me extend and clarify what I mean. For some things (code maintainability) PHP is less desirable than Java. PHP is missing some of the higher end features that make complex code with changing requirements in a high load/use environment easier.
There are also functional pieces of PHP which are still *not* present that have been in J2EE from the ground floor. Check out Vulcan Logic SRM It is the first real attempt at handling database connection pooling and a high performance persistence mechanism for data and objects.
PHP can undoubtedly handle it, but when you are talking large code bases and complex situations J2EE has more built in mechanisms for handling the environment better IMO. Well architected PHP can do pretty good tho.
Jeremy
Re:Seems like a silly move...
on
Yahoo Moving to PHP
·
· Score: 4, Insightful
You care to back up any of the claims your making? I have seen J2EE in production environments deployed with great success. There is nothing inherently slow about J2EE in general. "Java's abysmal performance"? In what context is Java's performance abysmal. I won't contest that for a number of tasks it is not optimal, for server application programming tasks it really shines.
I just don't buy outright arguments like that at face value. It is *NOT* well understood or believed that what you state is true among any large groups of professional developers with proven experience deploying J2EE apps. Proof please.
Trust me, I love PHP. I wrote a book on PHP and think it can do great things.. but for enterprise level applications and for quite a few tasks it just isn't there.
Slashdot Mirror
I always here people parrot that we helped fund Al-Qadea to fight the soviets. Do you have any resources that could lend a little strength to this argument? I have yet to see anything but conspiracy theorist-wack-jobs claiming this with any true sincereity.
I am completely willing to believe it, I even don't doubt it much.. but I haven't seen much proof. That kind of thing also isn't very popular to discuss for major media outlets, so I doubt CNN will pick up news like that...ever.
Jeremy
Ehh ok. I don't remember where I heard it. I haven't watched the older star wars in a long time :) Anyway, I wasn't claiming it was some great philosphy. Just seemed apt :)
It reminds me of a saying I was told when I was young: friends are like sand in your hand. The tighter you squeeze the sand the more it just slips through your fingers.
The harder you try to control something the less control you really end up having, holds true for a lot of things. It is a pretty simple thought but the harder you squeeze people the more willing and likely they are to fight back.
Interesting. This reminds me of a case I read about. A guy gets called buy his friend, asks him to come get him from the police station. The friend comes and gets him and takes him to his car. The person picked up from jail proceeds to later that evening kill someone in his vehicle. The friend is then prosecuted for some very serious felony (negligent manslaughter or something, I don't remember exactly).
The catch? The guy the cops picked up was drunk. After his friend came and got him he went and drank some more and killed himself and someone else in a DUI accident. Is the friend responsible if he knew the person had been drinking? What about if the friend didn't know? The cops never told him why he was arrested. The prosecutors are basically saying it would take a moron to not notice, and that is why the friend is responsible.
Something to think on. I was at a party and I noticed people coming and going, some of them possibly drunk. They then proceed to go kill someone. Now I can get charged with the murder! (That is, if this case goes through). I think it was a hung jury twice, and the prosecution probably wont go for a third time.
Jeremy
I believe you can analyze the data pretty accurately. If you have one data report of traffic flowing at 55mph, and then suddenly nothing... uh oh we got a pile up. There is also statistical data you can use, plus common sense. If it is 5pm in Atlanta and traffic is not moving on 285 it is bad news.
Jeremy
Some of the time people are placed into positions they can't possibly manage. For instance: I was just out of high school and a full time student, and did not make a lot of money. I was hospitalized, and my parent's insurance covered ~80% of my bill. It costs around 13K to have emergency surgery and a week long stay at a hospital.
;)
At the time I had absolutely *no* credit. The bills were never sent to me until they were already in collection. Despite futile attempts to have it changed, it stayed in collection. No credit minus 4K dollars in accounts that are in collection = *BAD CREDIT*. My fault? I suppose if you can blame something I didn't really have any control over. My parents couldn't afford my hospital bill, so it was left to me. Oh well right? My fault, I bought the surgery after all.. I knew for sure I couldn't afford it, but I wen't and did it anyway. I suppose I am weak for wanting to stay alive.
I am just trying to show.. there are situations that occur that are beyond control. That is life.
Jeremy
I don't completely agree with that. Just because a client is not completely a technical genius they can still impose technical requirements. Some of the time it actually makes sense. Some clients might have plans for future interoperability, or anything. If a client makes a request, especially something so generic as using Java and XML, the development team is being payed to honor that request within reasonable limits.
Some of the time a client picking a language and implementation details can be a real PAIN! Yet, there are almost always circumstances, possibly just silly bias, that cause them to ask for this. Maybe they are planning to have development staff capable of handling that application. Maybe they already have a development staff that could only maintain an application written in Java. Maybe they don't want MS technology in their apps. I don't think it is always fair to assume someone imposing a request on a developer is immediately wrong. The client is *always* right. Even if they are right and it is doomed to fail. I don't think using Java and XML doom a project to fail.
Anyway, some of the time it is easier to go with the flow as a software development company;)
Doesn't look any worse than a roadster that puts you closer to earth.
78,000 seems more reasonable. That is more like 150 lines a day.
Well, I looked at their options. I think it actually simplifies the process of weighing the benefits and drawbacks. If I have a project, I have in mind the kind of ways I want to let other people use my software. Regardless of whatever license is out there, I know my intent with a project. I know how I want others to be able to use it. As a creator you should definitely know at least what your goal is with the project and how, if at all, you want to let the source be used.
Having a set of options, if they meet my criteria for how I want my project to be used makes it much easier. If it covers the key points of what I want a license to cover why should I have to worry with the gory details of a license if one already exists?
I think it is really more of a question that people should think more clearly about how they want their projects to be used. It is not really a question of licensing. Licensing is just a way to see your "vision" come to fruition. I don't see license as what set off a vision, just a means to a particular end.
Jeremy
I understand the philisophy behind what they are doing. I have a difference of philosphy, so I responded. It's a philisophical thing, see?
Jeremy
I am simply asking one question: where do you stop? Do we need to judge the lethality of everyday items, and what they are used for. You could EASILY kill 20 people in moments with a car, if you really wanted to. Firearms in general can kill people easier. It only takes a creative mind to find a way to kill a lot of people with practically anything. If they really hate the world they will. Firearms just let people act out their violence in a particular fashion. That is why I feel it is silly. If someone is going to go on a bloody rampage, they will. Maybe killing fewer or more people without a firearm.
The steel pole was just one example on the other end of the spectrum on an every day item that could be lethal.
Why the discussion board naming. It's like you are challenging others to respond to me. They will without the encouragement, I am sure.
Jeremy
I only take issue with point 4 of yours. Where do you stop with "There is one less place to buy parts for things used to kill people.?" Already manufactured parts? What about those companies that make steel, used to kill people in a variety of ways. Cars kill people. Guns kill people. Steel poles used to bludgeon someone kill people. I am not slagging Google here, they are a private company that can run the way they see fit.
I am just curios where you really stop with something like, "things used to kill people". It seems a little asanine and weak to me. Maybe it needs to be: there is one less place to buy parts for firearms, which are not manufactured specifically for killing people. That is reality. I know guns are mis-used, but that doesn't mean they are sold and consumed (in general) with the intent to kill people.
Jeremy
Hehe, yeah. I can't remember where that started. I wasn't claiming to have thought it up, it is just funny :)
Jeremy
Well I realize the human mind can process limited amounts of information, but that doesn't stop the information and events from occuring at speeds beyond real-time comprehension.
Try hibernation mode for a few months.
Another of my favorite responses to the threads about games where people get hung up on FPS.
;)"
Goes something like..
"That is nothing, I can get several trillion polygons with billions of colors at thousands of frames per second! It is called outside, you should try it some time. Check out the cool wind special effects some time as well
Jeremy
Memento
Making a civic out-run a Ferrari would cost no more than 10-15K + MSRP much less than an equivalent F. Now if you want to compare the overall quality and driveability of the F to the equivalently speedy Civic you might have a valid comparison. If speed is your thing your thing you can do a lot with very little money (relative to a high cost production car like a Ferrari).
:-) No garauntees on the engine life or anything but I will gladly spend the money again when I burn up my mostly stock motor :)
;)
I have a Mustang that I have spent no more than 8K on. It puts out ~475rwhp. Teamed up with an aggressive final drive ratio and very few production cars can stand up to a Mustang like that. Gas mileage plain sucks and city driving would suck without the 6spd
The point? Bad analogy
I know this could be considered splitting hairs since your point is the task is a little extreme. However a more valid comparison would be completely changing all road sides and what they mean and then making the steering column of cars on the right side of the car. That would probably be closer to how it is for people coming to Linux from a Windows+MS Office environment.
Jeremy
Project Gutenberg specifically deals with texts that are not copyrighted. So it is all legit. :)
Jeremy
I was speaking of Java in general, not Java on FreeBSD. I do realize it is not the greatest on FreeBSD. I just had broad sweeping statements about a language in general. The language is capable. Implementations may vary some.
Jeremy
I do accept that. I am just trying to nullify some of the sweeping generlizations made that cast Java and Java based solutions in an mis-shone bad light. I don't have a true pet language. I have used Perl, even recently in production, to provide things that would just be difficult without the wide base of available modules for Perl. Perl is light weight, runs anywhere (arguably more places, and better, than Java) and it can be optimized rather well for many environments. I have used PHP for many projects when J2EE just didn't fit. I have used J2EE when it was truely required and it fit best with the requirements of the project. I am not a language biggot. I simply take issue to generalizations that aren't *generally* true. FreeBSD is a Java weak point. Yahoo using PHP boosts its credit level. I am not saying PHP was not the right choice for Yahoo.. it probably was. They probably invested many man hours into this decision. All is well :)
Jeremy
Let me extend and clarify what I mean. For some things (code maintainability) PHP is less desirable than Java. PHP is missing some of the higher end features that make complex code with changing requirements in a high load/use environment easier.
There are also functional pieces of PHP which are still *not* present that have been in J2EE from the ground floor. Check out Vulcan Logic SRM It is the first real attempt at handling database connection pooling and a high performance persistence mechanism for data and objects.
PHP can undoubtedly handle it, but when you are talking large code bases and complex situations J2EE has more built in mechanisms for handling the environment better IMO. Well architected PHP can do pretty good tho.
Jeremy
You care to back up any of the claims your making? I have seen J2EE in production environments deployed with great success. There is nothing inherently slow about J2EE in general. "Java's abysmal performance"? In what context is Java's performance abysmal. I won't contest that for a number of tasks it is not optimal, for server application programming tasks it really shines.
I just don't buy outright arguments like that at face value. It is *NOT* well understood or believed that what you state is true among any large groups of professional developers with proven experience deploying J2EE apps. Proof please.
Trust me, I love PHP. I wrote a book on PHP and think it can do great things.. but for enterprise level applications and for quite a few tasks it just isn't there.
Jeremy
Apple Cinema Display. Go to CompUSA and drool at the largest one they have, they are some of the best displays I have ever seen.