That's retarded. You don't "give" people democracy. They have to take it for themselves. You can nudge, encourage, provide education, but ultimately "democracy from above" will never work, because it's a matter of culture and you can't have democracy if first you don't change the culture.
*Of course* the doctrines of the Church were sold as path of peace. Or of war, according to the need of the context. Have you actually checked the documents of the period?
Do you actually have any Muslim friend? They are nice, normal people who do not realize that they have ditched all the horrible prescriptions of their stupid religion, just as the overwhelming majority of Christians did.
Religion is the art of believing whatever you want to believe, what is actually written on The Holy Book is irrelevant.
Look at Eastern cultures, and its braindead individuals seeking spiritual enlightnement after a charismatic guru. It takes nothing for spiritual wankery to become religion. They are one and the same.
Since you cite TFA, what part of "These hunting events involve capturing or breeding pigeons in cages, and releasing a large number of birds from cages to immediately be shot or wounded by hunters." didn't you understand?
I'd be really interested in understanding why do you consider that (I suppose the love one) a strawman. And I'd be really interested in your answer to the other two questions.
"If there is no objective moral standard, then why are these important?" Because we are humans, and we have feelings.
"And why is it important I agree with you?" There is no way you will ever agree with me. I am happy not to give a free pass to your stupid ideas. Maybe to expose the stupidity. Definitely to keep myself sharp and possibly learning something new.
"I still need to judge my own actions against that standard." Naaaaa. You just have to unconsciously decide that what you want is conveniently what God wants from you. At least, it is what most of those that share your ideas do.
(Uh, I have been ambiguous so far: I am not attacking YOU. I am attacking your ideas. My bad.)
"God chooses not to act in a manner which is contrary to His nature which is in perfect alignment with the objective moral truth you dismiss as anachronistic." (I don't dismiss it as anachronistic. I dismiss it as "never happened".) His nature? What do you mean, exactly? What is God's nature? Can God change His own nature?
Above is question 1). Also, I am still curious about a couple of things:
2) Let's assume you found the woman of your life. You love her, but she's free to love you or to reject you. Assuming that it would be practical to do so, would you set up things so that if she rejects you she will be harshly punished and suffer? If no, why?
3) You are convinced to be the good (albeit sinner) guy, acting after the wish of the One True God.
The Taliban are convinced to be the good (albeit sinner) guys, acting after the wish of the One True God. Prove to an impartial observer that they are wrong. (I do NOT need you to prove that YOU are right.)
""If there is no meaningful objective moral truth, your notion of good and evil is likewise meaningless, making statements like "There are a MILLIONS of good people out there." completely irrational.""
I agreed with you until here. You see things in black and white.
Indeed there is no objective moral truth: if you look at human history, morals continued to change (God notwithstanding). There is no objective moral truth and we have to cope with it. How?
By asking ourselves what can make us, and those around us happy. By asking ourselves how we can reduce harm and suffering. By not taking good and evil for granted. They are open questions. I don't have an ultimate answer. Work in progress.
Those that think they know already the answer however, they scare me. Because they are less likely to stop and think about good and evil. Because they are much likely to overcome their compassion.
I understand the allure of your world. Much less responsiblity. Hey, someone else choose already for you what's good and what's bad. Easy.
Maybe one day your God will tell you (or someone with similar beliefs) to kill all those that don't "love" Him enough. It happened so many times in history. And for you it will be a good (TM) thing to do.
"Because there is no such thing as a just or good person" No. There are a MILLIONS of good people out there. And you would see that if you didn't see everything from the distorted lens of the impossible standard that your petty, childish God arbitrarily set.
I wonder, will you propose to your next girlfriend letting her know that if she does not love you, you have set up things so that she will suffer and be punished? But anyway, I'm not here to convince you.
"Nice the way edited that to make me seem to have said something I didn't say." You said exactly that. Only you do not realize it.
"I would not have raped anyone regardless of who was ordering me to do so [...], but also because the notion is repugnant to me." I am glad you do. And what if God all of the sudden told you to "take their women for you"? What if He decreed that rape is ok? Moral is entirely arbitrary, after all, and God is not good (because He arbitrarily decides what is good). Would you suddenly find it less repugnant?
The problem is that what you downplay so easily has happened since the dawn of time and continues to happen to these very days. And it happened in the Bible. Humans overcome their compassion because of their beliefs.
You scare me. How can I know that your evil God won't go all Old Testament again? I am sure you consider yourself righteous, like everyone else that slaughtered countless in the course of history. In my eyes, you are no different. And this is NOT hypothetical. Please understand that from my point of you, you are no different than a taleban, than a crusader, or than a communist gulag guard. Why? ** Because you allow your system of beliefs to overcome your compassion. ** Because you don't care about killing if God or whoever appointed by Him tells you to do. Because you think that people deserve to be harshly punished for their *beliefs* rather than their actions. And because you are utterly blind to all this and think that it's not so important. ** Just as it happened throughout history and continues to happen. ** They have just to give you an enemy to transform you in a happy killer.
You are a danger to your fellow human beings. Your ideas are harmful and must be exposed.
"Should it not likewise be infinite?" No. Just, no. It's retarded. Since when the size of the offended commesures with the size of the punishment? To me, this God of yours seems only an infinite douche.
Also, the Infinite Douche desires love at gunpoint. Awesome. Love me or I will torture you. What a fucking psycho.
Point 2) refers to the fact that you didn't have the balls to tell me that a just men deserves to be tortured for eternity, which is what happens in Hell according to most Chrtistians. You conveniently said that you don't know what afterlife is like. Why many Christians seems to know and you don't? Why people that read the same book end up believing really different things?
I do rely on axioms that cannot be proven. But I choose to believe the bare minimum I need to interact with reality. They are a practical necessity, unlike god. You choose to believe the above AND whatever idea you like. So even in your distorted mind where "induction" and "faith" are the same thing, I rely on belief MUCH less than you do.
"I believe it would be less merciful to force somebody into God's presence when they never wanted to be there in the first place." LOL, I love the way your brain struggles not to give me an straight answer. Man, a politician would be proud of you. Hell is supposed to cause you to suffer, a way or another. "If you don't like to stay with me then I am sure you will be happier to go in a pit of lava" is a ridiculous, laughable, dishonest answer. I grow tired of your games.
"4) Why don't you believe in Santa Claus?" "My parents told me so, and I trust them." Are you fucking serious?
"5) Would you kill, rape and pillage if God told you so? (There seem to be precedents in the Bible...) I suppose I would be required to do so, which after all was the context God used in the case of the Israelites entering Canaan." You are an evil being and a morally bankrupt person.
"Are humans really all that compassionate?" No (this is a straight answer, see how it looks like?) Humans are just enough compassionate to thrive in societies. The important thing however, is that they definitely understand compassion. It is not an absolute value, it changes with person and time, and I don't have the answers to all moral questions. But I'll take this any time over what you have, where "good" is whatever a crazy psychopath arbitrarily decides from above.
I'll keep my flawed compassion, knowing that is flawed and imperfect, rather than being a monster like you, that would kill me or anyone else if only its best super friend told him (and incidentally, is exactly what the Taleban do).
Against human innate compassion. Against that trait that allowed us to evolve as social animals, and can be seen in many social animals. Would you kill, rape and pillage if God told you so? (There seem to be precedents in the Bible...) Have you ever heard about Euthyphro's dilemma? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euthyphro_dilemma
And you are running away from a few issues. 1) Why do Christians believe in an afterlife of eternal torment? 2) Why do you believe different stuff from them? 3) Why do you believe that it is just and merciful to punish someone strictly for her beliefs? 4) Why don't you believe in Santa Claus?
Oh man, assuming that reality exists is just a huge big leap of faith as assuming that Santa Claus exists. You are wanking with words. I interact with some sort of reality as my basis for existence. This is all the proof that I need. And that YOU need.
Ask any Christian if they need Faith to accept that reality exists... They will laugh at you because it cheapens so much the Faith you need to believe in God. But yes, let's go along your game of twisting words. Yes, I need faith that reality exists. You need that as well. Plus, you need Faith that God Exists, you need Faith that He reveals himself through the Bible, you need Faith that he's not a trickster playing a game on you and I could continue. In short, even with your ludicrous premises, I need much less "faith" than you.
LOL, is this an argument "you need God not to rape or murder or pillage"? Compassion is innate in social animals. Please stop running in circles. You take a good man and judge him bad only because he does not share your fantasies. You diminish the overwhelming majority of humans that do not share your particular belief, because you think they deserve less.
I think you are stupid and evil. But never, never for the love of my life I would think that you deserve to suffer for eternity. That's only what a psychopath would consider "just" or "compassionate". The fact that you don't see it is my beef with religion: it blinds people.
Most Christians believe that there is Hell and eternal torment. Allow me to refresh your memory: http://bible.org/article/what-bible-says-about-hell Do you read the same book and get to a different conclusion? I'm not surprised.
And no, raping and murdering someone all of the sudden is not a "lapse of judgement". Unlike mine, this is a really extreme scenario. Yes, that man harmed others and should be punished. Are you saying that raping and murdering are a crime just like "not believing in the right book in the right way"!? Again, your religion is badly fucking up your morals. This is insanely bad and you can't see it.
So, a good person would *deserve* "nothing good"? LOL, and yet so many people believe in this "Hell" thing that you slither away from. Man, this God did totally a poor job in inspiring His ideas.
Atheism is a religion exactly as "non believing in Santa Claus" is a religion. There are infinite ideas that can be imagined. Infinite beliefs to be held. It does not take YOU faith to reject most of them. Why should it take ME faith to reject one more? I'm doing the same thing you do, only more consistently.
I do not have faith that there is a reality with which I can interact. Me reading your drivels on the computer is evidence of that. Unless you want to lower the concept of 'faith' so deep that it becomes utterly meaningless.
Again a lot of words. Can't you give a straight answer?
Ok. Question. I do not believe in the existence of your God. I think that the Holy Spirit is a fantasy as is most other stuff written in the Bible. Let's further assume that I am a compassionate and kind human being, struggling every day to make the life of my fellows human beings better. I die without repenting. According to your beliefs, how's my afterlife like?
(Also, define what you mean by "religion" and I will tell you whether atheism is a religion or not. I don't see how playing semantics is relevant to the current discussion. Don't you have better arguments?)
I don't begrudge you; just remember what our argument is about.
Many Christians will disagree that Faith comes first, so by affirming the opposite you just made my point. (Incidentally, it also means that you believe that anyone that does not share your Faith *deserves* to be *tortured for eternity*, but probably you will fail to see how this is outright evil).
Finally, LOL, it's obvious that St.Augustine (a pillar of Christianity) and I (a filthy atheist) give a very different meaning to the same sentence. But that's brain on religion for you: irony impaired among other things.
"Christian" means "followers of Christ", and your use of "by definition" doesn't mean what you think it does.
The fact that there has been a big meeting and they decided once and for all which was the Real Word of God (TM) does not lend more credibility to Christianity.
The scriptures are ambiguous (are you saved by works or by faith?), and there are one thousands different way to "consistently" read them. Anyone without Christian Goggles could see it, but alas, this is the nature of religion and you are proof of it: to use St. Augustine's words: "Faith is to believe what you do not see; the reward of this faith is to see what you believe." I happen to agree with him entirely.
You are playing with words. Your context is not someone else's context.
The core of the problem is that there is not a common framework to interpret the holy books, an ultimate rule to decide the validity of a statement. Ultimately everyone can believe whatever they want about the meaning of these texts, religions continue to split, and your beliefs are no more accurate than those of any other religious person, regardless of religion, denomination or flavour. Given the variety of beliefs, "Faith" works impressively bad as a way to discern the truth for at least the overwhelming majority of the faithful.
You probably know a lot of good Muslims yourself. But most good Muslim (just like most good Christians) don't make a big deal of their faith to others, so most of the time you don't even know they're Muslim! Peaceful and freedom-advocating Muslim exist just as in any other group, they just don't make the news. The Arab Spring didn't happen because of Christians.
That the Old Testament does not apply to modern Christian is YOUR interpretation and not the one of many modern Christian. Ain't it funny how the Holy Books are so ambiguous that can mean everything and its opposite according to the wishes and prejudices of the reader?
If you ask me, God did a really bad job at inspiring that stuff.
Further, ALL my Muslim friends are fantastic, nice and tolerant people, not unlike most Christian you may meet in, say, Italy. The problem, is that religion can be easily used for political agendas and there are crazy Muslims, not unlike the Christians you may meet in the US.
Then tell me how many buildings terrorists have flown airplanes into recently. Name one!
Just in case you are no Poe:
Tell me how many buildings terrorists have flown airplanes into between the invention of the airplane and *just before* 9/11... All prevented by TSA? Wait, TSA wasn't there...
Many Apple Boys are religious about it (there's also plenty of Apple users who are more sensible). Like any other religion, they just rationalize away the uncomfortable stuff. Further, many environmentalists care about being trendy and "think different" more than they actually care about the environment. All of this is very human.
Too late for me. I didn't like Skype and it being bought by MS only hastened my transition to GChat.
I think many non-Windows users made a similar move, and this is why MS is hastening to show that it has no intentions of making Skype a MS-only creature. As others have noted, MS is not keen to put its logo on Skype.
Despite being a rabid Linux fanatic, I must recognize that MS pushed the first Linux Skype update in, like, two years. Not enough to make me go back using it, but it's not MS fault.
Slashdot Mirror
That's retarded.
You don't "give" people democracy.
They have to take it for themselves.
You can nudge, encourage, provide education, but ultimately "democracy from above" will never work, because it's a matter of culture and you can't have democracy if first you don't change the culture.
Nope.
None gives a shit about Political Correctness.
It's just that Saudia Arabia holds us by the nuts because of the oil.
Plus, they are filthy rich and have a modern army.
*Of course* the doctrines of the Church were sold as path of peace.
Or of war, according to the need of the context.
Have you actually checked the documents of the period?
Do you actually have any Muslim friend?
They are nice, normal people who do not realize that they have ditched all the horrible prescriptions of their stupid religion, just as the overwhelming majority of Christians did.
Religion is the art of believing whatever you want to believe, what is actually written on The Holy Book is irrelevant.
Look at Eastern cultures, and its braindead individuals seeking spiritual enlightnement after a charismatic guru.
It takes nothing for spiritual wankery to become religion.
They are one and the same.
Since you cite TFA, what part of "These hunting events involve capturing or breeding pigeons in cages, and releasing a large number of birds from cages to immediately be shot or wounded by hunters." didn't you understand?
I'd be really interested in understanding why do you consider that (I suppose the love one) a strawman.
And I'd be really interested in your answer to the other two questions.
"If there is no objective moral standard, then why are these important?"
Because we are humans, and we have feelings.
"And why is it important I agree with you?"
There is no way you will ever agree with me.
I am happy not to give a free pass to your stupid ideas.
Maybe to expose the stupidity.
Definitely to keep myself sharp and possibly learning something new.
"I still need to judge my own actions against that standard."
Naaaaa.
You just have to unconsciously decide that what you want is conveniently what God wants from you.
At least, it is what most of those that share your ideas do.
(Uh, I have been ambiguous so far: I am not attacking YOU. I am attacking your ideas. My bad.)
"God chooses not to act in a manner which is contrary to His nature which is in perfect alignment with the objective moral truth you dismiss as anachronistic."
(I don't dismiss it as anachronistic. I dismiss it as "never happened".)
His nature?
What do you mean, exactly?
What is God's nature?
Can God change His own nature?
Above is question 1).
Also, I am still curious about a couple of things:
2) Let's assume you found the woman of your life.
You love her, but she's free to love you or to reject you.
Assuming that it would be practical to do so, would you set up things so that if she rejects you she will be harshly punished and suffer?
If no, why?
3) You are convinced to be the good (albeit sinner) guy, acting after the wish of the One True God.
The Taliban are convinced to be the good (albeit sinner) guys, acting after the wish of the One True God.
Prove to an impartial observer that they are wrong.
(I do NOT need you to prove that YOU are right.)
""If there is no meaningful objective moral truth, your notion of good and evil is likewise meaningless, making statements like "There are a MILLIONS of good people out there." completely irrational.""
I agreed with you until here.
You see things in black and white.
Indeed there is no objective moral truth: if you look at human history, morals continued to change (God notwithstanding).
There is no objective moral truth and we have to cope with it.
How?
By asking ourselves what can make us, and those around us happy.
By asking ourselves how we can reduce harm and suffering.
By not taking good and evil for granted.
They are open questions.
I don't have an ultimate answer.
Work in progress.
Those that think they know already the answer however, they scare me.
Because they are less likely to stop and think about good and evil.
Because they are much likely to overcome their compassion.
I understand the allure of your world.
Much less responsiblity.
Hey, someone else choose already for you what's good and what's bad.
Easy.
Maybe one day your God will tell you (or someone with similar beliefs) to kill all those that don't "love" Him enough.
It happened so many times in history.
And for you it will be a good (TM) thing to do.
"Because there is no such thing as a just or good person"
No.
There are a MILLIONS of good people out there.
And you would see that if you didn't see everything from the distorted lens of the impossible standard that your petty, childish God arbitrarily set.
I wonder, will you propose to your next girlfriend letting her know that if she does not love you, you have set up things so that she will suffer and be punished?
But anyway, I'm not here to convince you.
"Nice the way edited that to make me seem to have said something I didn't say."
You said exactly that.
Only you do not realize it.
"I would not have raped anyone regardless of who was ordering me to do so [...], but also because the notion is repugnant to me."
I am glad you do.
And what if God all of the sudden told you to "take their women for you"?
What if He decreed that rape is ok?
Moral is entirely arbitrary, after all, and God is not good (because He arbitrarily decides what is good).
Would you suddenly find it less repugnant?
The problem is that what you downplay so easily has happened since the dawn of time and continues to happen to these very days.
And it happened in the Bible.
Humans overcome their compassion because of their beliefs.
You scare me.
How can I know that your evil God won't go all Old Testament again?
I am sure you consider yourself righteous, like everyone else that slaughtered countless in the course of history.
In my eyes, you are no different.
And this is NOT hypothetical.
Please understand that from my point of you, you are no different than a taleban, than a crusader, or than a communist gulag guard.
Why?
** Because you allow your system of beliefs to overcome your compassion. **
Because you don't care about killing if God or whoever appointed by Him tells you to do.
Because you think that people deserve to be harshly punished for their *beliefs* rather than their actions.
And because you are utterly blind to all this and think that it's not so important.
** Just as it happened throughout history and continues to happen. **
They have just to give you an enemy to transform you in a happy killer.
You are a danger to your fellow human beings.
Your ideas are harmful and must be exposed.
"Should it not likewise be infinite?"
No.
Just, no.
It's retarded.
Since when the size of the offended commesures with the size of the punishment?
To me, this God of yours seems only an infinite douche.
Also, the Infinite Douche desires love at gunpoint.
Awesome.
Love me or I will torture you.
What a fucking psycho.
Point 2) refers to the fact that you didn't have the balls to tell me that a just men deserves to be tortured for eternity, which is what happens in Hell according to most Chrtistians.
You conveniently said that you don't know what afterlife is like.
Why many Christians seems to know and you don't?
Why people that read the same book end up believing really different things?
I do rely on axioms that cannot be proven.
But I choose to believe the bare minimum I need to interact with reality.
They are a practical necessity, unlike god.
You choose to believe the above AND whatever idea you like.
So even in your distorted mind where "induction" and "faith" are the same thing, I rely on belief MUCH less than you do.
"I believe it would be less merciful to force somebody into God's presence when they never wanted to be there in the first place."
LOL, I love the way your brain struggles not to give me an straight answer.
Man, a politician would be proud of you.
Hell is supposed to cause you to suffer, a way or another.
"If you don't like to stay with me then I am sure you will be happier to go in a pit of lava" is a ridiculous, laughable, dishonest answer.
I grow tired of your games.
"4) Why don't you believe in Santa Claus?"
"My parents told me so, and I trust them."
Are you fucking serious?
"5) Would you kill, rape and pillage if God told you so? (There seem to be precedents in the Bible...)
I suppose I would be required to do so, which after all was the context God used in the case of the Israelites entering Canaan."
You are an evil being and a morally bankrupt person.
"Are humans really all that compassionate?"
No (this is a straight answer, see how it looks like?)
Humans are just enough compassionate to thrive in societies.
The important thing however, is that they definitely understand compassion.
It is not an absolute value, it changes with person and time, and I don't have the answers to all moral questions.
But I'll take this any time over what you have, where "good" is whatever a crazy psychopath arbitrarily decides from above.
I'll keep my flawed compassion, knowing that is flawed and imperfect, rather than being a monster like you, that would kill me or anyone else if only its best super friend told him (and incidentally, is exactly what the Taleban do).
Against human innate compassion.
Against that trait that allowed us to evolve as social animals, and can be seen in many social animals.
Would you kill, rape and pillage if God told you so? (There seem to be precedents in the Bible...)
Have you ever heard about Euthyphro's dilemma? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euthyphro_dilemma
And you are running away from a few issues.
1) Why do Christians believe in an afterlife of eternal torment?
2) Why do you believe different stuff from them?
3) Why do you believe that it is just and merciful to punish someone strictly for her beliefs?
4) Why don't you believe in Santa Claus?
Oh man, assuming that reality exists is just a huge big leap of faith as assuming that Santa Claus exists.
You are wanking with words.
I interact with some sort of reality as my basis for existence.
This is all the proof that I need.
And that YOU need.
Ask any Christian if they need Faith to accept that reality exists... They will laugh at you because it cheapens so much the Faith you need to believe in God.
But yes, let's go along your game of twisting words.
Yes, I need faith that reality exists.
You need that as well.
Plus, you need Faith that God Exists, you need Faith that He reveals himself through the Bible, you need Faith that he's not a trickster playing a game on you and I could continue.
In short, even with your ludicrous premises, I need much less "faith" than you.
LOL, is this an argument "you need God not to rape or murder or pillage"?
Compassion is innate in social animals.
Please stop running in circles.
You take a good man and judge him bad only because he does not share your fantasies.
You diminish the overwhelming majority of humans that do not share your particular belief, because you think they deserve less.
I think you are stupid and evil.
But never, never for the love of my life I would think that you deserve to suffer for eternity.
That's only what a psychopath would consider "just" or "compassionate".
The fact that you don't see it is my beef with religion: it blinds people.
Most Christians believe that there is Hell and eternal torment.
Allow me to refresh your memory: http://bible.org/article/what-bible-says-about-hell
Do you read the same book and get to a different conclusion?
I'm not surprised.
And no, raping and murdering someone all of the sudden is not a "lapse of judgement".
Unlike mine, this is a really extreme scenario.
Yes, that man harmed others and should be punished.
Are you saying that raping and murdering are a crime just like "not believing in the right book in the right way"!?
Again, your religion is badly fucking up your morals.
This is insanely bad and you can't see it.
So, a good person would *deserve* "nothing good"?
LOL, and yet so many people believe in this "Hell" thing that you slither away from.
Man, this God did totally a poor job in inspiring His ideas.
Atheism is a religion exactly as "non believing in Santa Claus" is a religion.
There are infinite ideas that can be imagined.
Infinite beliefs to be held.
It does not take YOU faith to reject most of them.
Why should it take ME faith to reject one more?
I'm doing the same thing you do, only more consistently.
I do not have faith that there is a reality with which I can interact.
Me reading your drivels on the computer is evidence of that.
Unless you want to lower the concept of 'faith' so deep that it becomes utterly meaningless.
Again a lot of words.
Can't you give a straight answer?
Ok.
Question.
I do not believe in the existence of your God.
I think that the Holy Spirit is a fantasy as is most other stuff written in the Bible.
Let's further assume that I am a compassionate and kind human being, struggling every day to make the life of my fellows human beings better.
I die without repenting.
According to your beliefs, how's my afterlife like?
(Also, define what you mean by "religion" and I will tell you whether atheism is a religion or not.
I don't see how playing semantics is relevant to the current discussion. Don't you have better arguments?)
I don't begrudge you; just remember what our argument is about.
Many Christians will disagree that Faith comes first, so by affirming the opposite you just made my point.
(Incidentally, it also means that you believe that anyone that does not share your Faith *deserves* to be *tortured for eternity*, but probably you will fail to see how this is outright evil).
Finally, LOL, it's obvious that St.Augustine (a pillar of Christianity) and I (a filthy atheist) give a very different meaning to the same sentence.
But that's brain on religion for you: irony impaired among other things.
"Christian" means "followers of Christ", and your use of "by definition" doesn't mean what you think it does.
The fact that there has been a big meeting and they decided once and for all which was the Real Word of God (TM) does not lend more credibility to Christianity.
The scriptures are ambiguous (are you saved by works or by faith?), and there are one thousands different way to "consistently" read them.
Anyone without Christian Goggles could see it, but alas, this is the nature of religion and you are proof of it: to use St. Augustine's words: "Faith is to believe what you do not see; the reward of this faith is to see what you believe."
I happen to agree with him entirely.
You are playing with words.
Your context is not someone else's context.
The core of the problem is that there is not a common framework to interpret the holy books, an ultimate rule to decide the validity of a statement.
Ultimately everyone can believe whatever they want about the meaning of these texts, religions continue to split, and your beliefs are no more accurate than those of any other religious person, regardless of religion, denomination or flavour.
Given the variety of beliefs, "Faith" works impressively bad as a way to discern the truth for at least the overwhelming majority of the faithful.
You probably know a lot of good Muslims yourself.
But most good Muslim (just like most good Christians) don't make a big deal of their faith to others, so most of the time you don't even know they're Muslim!
Peaceful and freedom-advocating Muslim exist just as in any other group, they just don't make the news.
The Arab Spring didn't happen because of Christians.
That the Old Testament does not apply to modern Christian is YOUR interpretation and not the one of many modern Christian.
Ain't it funny how the Holy Books are so ambiguous that can mean everything and its opposite according to the wishes and prejudices of the reader?
If you ask me, God did a really bad job at inspiring that stuff.
Further, ALL my Muslim friends are fantastic, nice and tolerant people, not unlike most Christian you may meet in, say, Italy.
The problem, is that religion can be easily used for political agendas and there are crazy Muslims, not unlike the Christians you may meet in the US.
Do you believe in Santa Claus?
Can you categorically prove me that Santa Claus does NOT exist?
Sure, proving the lack of something is a bitch...
Then tell me how many buildings terrorists have flown airplanes into recently. Name one!
Just in case you are no Poe:
Tell me how many buildings terrorists have flown airplanes into between the invention of the airplane and *just before* 9/11...
All prevented by TSA? Wait, TSA wasn't there...
Many Apple Boys are religious about it (there's also plenty of Apple users who are more sensible).
Like any other religion, they just rationalize away the uncomfortable stuff.
Further, many environmentalists care about being trendy and "think different" more than they actually care about the environment.
All of this is very human.
Your tax money are being used also to deliberately shoot and bomb people, how is this more ethical?
Too late for me.
I didn't like Skype and it being bought by MS only hastened my transition to GChat.
I think many non-Windows users made a similar move, and this is why MS is hastening to show that it has no intentions of making Skype a MS-only creature.
As others have noted, MS is not keen to put its logo on Skype.
Despite being a rabid Linux fanatic, I must recognize that MS pushed the first Linux Skype update in, like, two years.
Not enough to make me go back using it, but it's not MS fault.
Cool, who gets to decide whether they are peaceful or not?
Because as far as I know, neither clubbing peaceful protesters is legal.