global warming whatever. i know that we really need to think about "cleaning up" the environment and all, but hell....
i'll take a crap on a baby manatee, whipe my ass with non-biodegradable styrofoam, while spraying aqua-net into the ionosphere if it gets my heating bill below $225 a month. i mean fuck....I CAN FEED A CHILD FOR 10 CENTS A DAY BUT I CAN'T HEAT MY HOUSE FOR LESS THAN $5.
FluX After 16 years, MTV has finally completed its deevolution into the shiny things network
The best teachers we have are the ones that teach us about life. I see alot of posts here about X teacher that made so and so work a little harder for their grade, or X teacher that helped a student learn this or that about physics.
the teachers that usually have the most effect on our pre-adult minds are the liberal arts teachers. Philosophy, English, Art, - they make us more well rounded people. And i'm not talking about the parental clause (the adult tells the student "one day you'll see that this is true." and, 10 years later you realize they were right.) I'm talking about the teachers that made you change your mind. The teachers that didn't tell you they were right....they showed you they were right. The best teachers are the ones where everyday you walk out of that class and have an epiphany, not about an assignment, but about life.
Mr. Moe was one of those teachers. He taught 11th grade English and 12th grade Humanities seminar. We studied books like One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest and Damian. Although my chosen field is one of computers. I think that Moe's advice and teachings have been more helpful than any of my comp-sci teachers or math or science teachers' advice could ever be (and ever was).
I'm talking about one of those teachers that sharpens your critical thinking skills. Sure, i learned all the things that any 11th grade student was supposed to learn about literature, grammar, and whatever the hell else we were supposed to know. But the times he just talked with the class were some of the most enlightening experiences i've ever had. I suppose it's the same as college. They say the real knowledge gained at a university is outside the classroom. For me, the real knowledge i gained in highschool was not from reading Brave New World but from simply talking with Mr. Moe on a peer to peer level. And that, no book can ever replace.
FluX After 16 years, MTV has finally completed its deevolution into the shiny things network
A) thing A sucks so bad, there's really no denying it (i.e. Russia's economic and social infrastructure).
B) person 1 comes along saying A doesn't really suck and that anyone saying A sucks is brainwashed.
C) person 2 comes along and says that A does, in fact, suck.
D) person 1 gets to show how quick-witted and intelligent he is by saying something to the effect of "you see! you've been brainwashed into thinking thing A sucks"
i suppose the fact that i believe anything proves that i've been brainwashed into believing it.
FluX After 16 years, MTV has finally completed its deevolution into the shiny things network
IT: (n. eye-tee). 1. A state of having recently graduated from college with a liberal-arts degree and realizing that all your electrical engineering friends are making bank. 2. A catchall term for 40-something HR reps from conglomerates making any number of x (x.) products, none of which have to do with computers. Term explicitly, or implicitly, indicates an incomprehension for technology related substances. 3. (n.)Dodging term for one who works at a failing.com "Harry, where do you work?", "Oh, I'm in IT."
IT(n.):syn. Synergy, Value-Add, (phr.)Thinking outside the box. (side: box (n.) is not implicitly labeled). or, any other number of terms upper-management throws around without any clue of definition.
IT(n.):ant. Work-ethic, Skilled Labor, e.g. "I work for a company that's been around longer than 3 years."
FluX After 16 years, MTV has finally completed its deevolution into the shiny things network
sorry, but i'm reading this post and i have to jump in here.
afc: you are one of the most abrasive posters i have read on/. With others, it is easy to write off their posts as trolls, or flames. You, however take a more subtle approach towards the agitation of your neighbors. Perhaps you don't realize it, as you're not throwing explatives around in plain view. What you're doing is throwing slugs (look it up, i think there might also be a book on the matter).
understand, you won't admit to this and you won't be able to see it anyway. but that is a moot point as, in the end, you truly are what others see you as being, not how you see yourself. And i'm sorry for you. It seems an unfortunate circumstance as you occasionally have something poignant to say.
i suppose i am only distressed that i didn't call you on it earlier. And, in the end, wound up falling into the same trap our fellow poster did in this thread. Son, you're a troll, but a really good one.
FluX After 16 years, MTV has finally completed its deevolution into the shiny things network
well. i wasn't going to reply as this thread is rapidly deteriorating into a flame-war. but what the fuck; i've had 2 hours of sleep and you've essentially insulted everyone in my profession. So here goes:
A)try to use more bold characters in your posts. It more effectively emphasizes your point
B)Most of the good sysads i've known are some of the most skillfull coders i've seen. We also have some developers who have become sysads because they like the work better. The reason developers/project managers/dba's/whoever fucking else are paid better than sysads is because they're overpaid. sysads are undepaid because there are so many entry-level personell coming into the market who think that, because they used pine in college, they know all there is to know about the unix OS. and fuck MCSE's, they're overvalued.
C)Roll our own fucking software? What's the purpose in trying to reinvent the wheel. If a piece of software is out there that effectively does the task you need it to do, what eactly is the purpose of re-writing it? You're trying to give me enough rope to hang myself with here...but WTF do you think the purpose of all those nifty configure switches is for? how about hacking the source that you downloaded rather than completely coding it from scratch. Oh, i guess develotubbies wouldn't think to do that because they're so 1337.
D)Windows NT can do almost anything that Linux can do, if only worse
thank you very much. i haven't had a good laugh in quite some time. If you honestly believe this, i suppose all hope is lost and this whole thread is meaningless because you just don't get it.
D)May I add as a final observation that that is the very purpose of an operating system?
the purpose of an OS, my friend, is facilitation, not isolation.
FluX After 16 years, MTV has finally completed its deevolution into the shiny things network
Translation of the above: you think rpm(1) and apt(1) are poor utilities because you don't know how to use them.... It does not take any intellectual effort to do the./configure && make && make install sequence referred to in the post I replied to: a trained monkey can do that.
i suppose i'm stuck trying to figure out why they pay people so much money to be system administrators then. The fact of the matter is that your./configure && make && make install allusion is a poor one. a decent source install rarely involves just those three steps. surely you wouldn't go about installing something like apache, perl, or mysql with just those three steps. installing from source is the only way to get a package that is truly configure for your system. anything else might be able to come close, but definitely not the same. the level of optimization will not be there. the level of customization will definitely not be there.
tell me how all of your ranting above differs philosophically from some old fogie clinging stubbornly to his punched card operated mainframe as God's greatest gift to mankind
simple. unfortunately, as precident shows, as you gain user-friendliness, you lose functionality. Look at windows. Look at MacOS. These are extremely intuitive operating systems (comparitively, at least). They don't have anywhere NEAR the functionality that *nix type operating systems do. They isolate the user from the lower-level system tasks in order to achieve this end. That, in my book, is facilitating laziness on the part of the end-user. Your punch-card analogy doesn't work here. I'm not saying i don't want the tool to get better. But as that tool becomes more functional, i want the users of that tool to use it to it's full potential. Perhaps my argument in the previous post was too much of a broad digression from the apt-get vs. rpm argument, but my assertions stand. 10 years ago, a "technical" person was an engineer, or a sysad, or a network admin. These days, i see "technical" people who boast the fact that they know what TCP/IP stands for. That, to me, is not a step forward.
FluX After 16 years, MTV has finally completed its deevolution into the shiny things network
should be out when linus cleans out his email box from all the "j3w 4r3 s00 1337. 3y3 w4nt t0 b3 li3k j3w" junk mail he'll be recieving from copious linux zealots.
say.....august?
FluX After 16 years, MTV has finally completed its deevolution into the shiny things network
heh. actually, to compile things "correctly" takes a good deal of knowledge about the system you're working on and what features of the package you want to install.
it comes down to this. a computer is a tool. i've often tried to reflect on why i feel a bit of disdain for products like MS Windows and MacOS. Or online services like AOL and the MSN. It's simply a matter of the laziness of the user. People are inherently lazy. they use products like the aformentioned because they don't want to know what makes their computer tick. they just want to get their little beige box on that internet they've heard so much about and look for porn, or how to make a fluffier quiche.
that just doesn't cut it in my book. and i realize, the disdain i feel is for those people that are supporting these services because they don't have a ravenous desire to learn anything and everything they can. They don't care what is going on in their computer. And that usually translates into almost every facet of their lives. that doesn't give me a lot of confidence in my species.
ok. anyway....end of rant. rpm and apt-get a poor utilities because they isolate the user from the machine that much more. It's the same as the GNOME vs. KDE argument. there are other, more intelligent and elegant choices, it's just that no one talks about them because they're not for the lazy (default install) people in this world.
FluX After 16 years, MTV has finally completed its deevolution into the shiny things network
what makes you think going anywhere is going to make things better. Being an expatriate is not all it's cracked up to be.
assume for a minute that you DO in fact leave the country. does this mean what the US does is not going to impact your life at all? nope. quite the contrary. being that the US is the most powerful country in the world (can you honestly argue the power point here?) ANY changes they make will be reflected elsewhere. Do you think that if the US were to get involved in a war that you would be safe in France, or Brittain (btw - i mean WAR, not skirmish).
you ask about personal freedom? do what i do....fuck secularity. I'm obeying my own laws. most of these are in accordance with my country's current laws, but many of them are not. For example, i have been told that i might be thrown into prison for the use of marijuana. I don't care. Marajuana is not morally wrong, economically, or socially wrong (at least by my standards) - and so, i continue to do it.
don't recognize IP if you don't want to. I certainly don't. Use napster. Technically, it's illegal...it's been illegal for a long time. That doesn't stop millions of americans from using the service. Lest you forget, it's not "really" illegal if everyone's doing it;-)
why do you think i'm still smoking weed with impunity? (knock on wood).
FluX After 16 years, MTV has finally completed its deevolution into the shiny things network
as a user, i think i may have found a solution to the whole apt-get vs. rpm argument that has been boiling over for ever so long. this package management system could possibly change the world:
*.tar.gz
FluX After 16 years, MTV has finally completed its deevolution into the shiny things network
Slashdot Mirror
global warming whatever. i know that we really need to think about "cleaning up" the environment and all, but hell....
i'll take a crap on a baby manatee, whipe my ass with non-biodegradable styrofoam, while spraying aqua-net into the ionosphere if it gets my heating bill below $225 a month. i mean fuck....I CAN FEED A CHILD FOR 10 CENTS A DAY BUT I CAN'T HEAT MY HOUSE FOR LESS THAN $5.
FluX
After 16 years, MTV has finally completed its deevolution into the shiny things network
The best teachers we have are the ones that teach us about life. I see alot of posts here about X teacher that made so and so work a little harder for their grade, or X teacher that helped a student learn this or that about physics.
the teachers that usually have the most effect on our pre-adult minds are the liberal arts teachers. Philosophy, English, Art, - they make us more well rounded people. And i'm not talking about the parental clause (the adult tells the student "one day you'll see that this is true." and, 10 years later you realize they were right.) I'm talking about the teachers that made you change your mind. The teachers that didn't tell you they were right....they showed you they were right. The best teachers are the ones where everyday you walk out of that class and have an epiphany, not about an assignment, but about life.
Mr. Moe was one of those teachers. He taught 11th grade English and 12th grade Humanities seminar. We studied books like One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest and Damian. Although my chosen field is one of computers. I think that Moe's advice and teachings have been more helpful than any of my comp-sci teachers or math or science teachers' advice could ever be (and ever was).
I'm talking about one of those teachers that sharpens your critical thinking skills. Sure, i learned all the things that any 11th grade student was supposed to learn about literature, grammar, and whatever the hell else we were supposed to know. But the times he just talked with the class were some of the most enlightening experiences i've ever had. I suppose it's the same as college. They say the real knowledge gained at a university is outside the classroom. For me, the real knowledge i gained in highschool was not from reading Brave New World but from simply talking with Mr. Moe on a peer to peer level. And that, no book can ever replace.
FluX
After 16 years, MTV has finally completed its deevolution into the shiny things network
mmmmmmmmm. i love fuzzy logic.
A) thing A sucks so bad, there's really no denying it (i.e. Russia's economic and social infrastructure).
B) person 1 comes along saying A doesn't really suck and that anyone saying A sucks is brainwashed.
C) person 2 comes along and says that A does, in fact, suck.
D) person 1 gets to show how quick-witted and intelligent he is by saying something to the effect of "you see! you've been brainwashed into thinking thing A sucks"
i suppose the fact that i believe anything proves that i've been brainwashed into believing it.
FluX
After 16 years, MTV has finally completed its deevolution into the shiny things network
hehe. yeah. communism rocks.
look how good russia turned out. oh wait....
FluX
After 16 years, MTV has finally completed its deevolution into the shiny things network
the link seems to be slashdotted. luckily some guy in norway is broadcasting it via his 2 meter rig. thank god for dashdot
FluX
After 16 years, MTV has finally completed its deevolution into the shiny things network
wow - had i known i would have gotten modded up to funny by just pulling off dictionary.com i would have done that instead.
FluX
After 16 years, MTV has finally completed its deevolution into the shiny things network
IT: (n. eye- tee). 1. A state of having recently graduated from college with a liberal-arts degree and realizing that all your electrical engineering friends are making bank. 2. A catchall term for 40-something HR reps from conglomerates making any number of x (x.) products, none of which have to do with computers. Term explicitly, or implicitly, indicates an incomprehension for technology related substances. 3. (n.)Dodging term for one who works at a failing .com "Harry, where do you work?", "Oh, I'm in IT."
IT(n.):syn. Synergy, Value-Add, (phr.)Thinking outside the box. (side: box (n.) is not implicitly labeled). or, any other number of terms upper-management throws around without any clue of definition.
IT(n.):ant. Work-ethic, Skilled Labor, e.g. "I work for a company that's been around longer than 3 years."
FluX
After 16 years, MTV has finally completed its deevolution into the shiny things network
What is it that I don't get? Let me guess, you're sixteen, right?
lmfao. my point still stands.
FluX
After 16 years, MTV has finally completed its deevolution into the shiny things network
and my point still stands.
have a good day, sir.
FluX
After 16 years, MTV has finally completed its deevolution into the shiny things network
and aparently he rides a really rusty trike.
FluX
After 16 years, MTV has finally completed its deevolution into the shiny things network
sorry, but i'm reading this post and i have to jump in here.
/. With others, it is easy to write off their posts as trolls, or flames. You, however take a more subtle approach towards the agitation of your neighbors. Perhaps you don't realize it, as you're not throwing explatives around in plain view. What you're doing is throwing slugs (look it up, i think there might also be a book on the matter).
afc: you are one of the most abrasive posters i have read on
understand, you won't admit to this and you won't be able to see it anyway. but that is a moot point as, in the end, you truly are what others see you as being, not how you see yourself. And i'm sorry for you. It seems an unfortunate circumstance as you occasionally have something poignant to say.
i suppose i am only distressed that i didn't call you on it earlier. And, in the end, wound up falling into the same trap our fellow poster did in this thread. Son, you're a troll, but a really good one.
FluX
After 16 years, MTV has finally completed its deevolution into the shiny things network
well. i wasn't going to reply as this thread is rapidly deteriorating into a flame-war. but what the fuck; i've had 2 hours of sleep and you've essentially insulted everyone in my profession. So here goes:
A)try to use more bold characters in your posts. It more effectively emphasizes your point
B)Most of the good sysads i've known are some of the most skillfull coders i've seen. We also have some developers who have become sysads because they like the work better. The reason developers/project managers/dba's/whoever fucking else are paid better than sysads is because they're overpaid. sysads are undepaid because there are so many entry-level personell coming into the market who think that, because they used pine in college, they know all there is to know about the unix OS. and fuck MCSE's, they're overvalued.
C)Roll our own fucking software? What's the purpose in trying to reinvent the wheel. If a piece of software is out there that effectively does the task you need it to do, what eactly is the purpose of re-writing it? You're trying to give me enough rope to hang myself with here...but WTF do you think the purpose of all those nifty configure switches is for? how about hacking the source that you downloaded rather than completely coding it from scratch. Oh, i guess develotubbies wouldn't think to do that because they're so 1337.
D)Windows NT can do almost anything that Linux can do, if only worse
thank you very much. i haven't had a good laugh in quite some time. If you honestly believe this, i suppose all hope is lost and this whole thread is meaningless because you just don't get it.
D)May I add as a final observation that that is the very purpose of an operating system?
the purpose of an OS, my friend, is facilitation, not isolation.
FluX
After 16 years, MTV has finally completed its deevolution into the shiny things network
Translation of the above: you think rpm(1) and apt(1) are poor utilities because you don't know how to use them. ... It does not take any intellectual effort to do the ./configure && make && make install sequence referred to in the post I replied to: a trained monkey can do that.
./configure && make && make install allusion is a poor one. a decent source install rarely involves just those three steps. surely you wouldn't go about installing something like apache, perl, or mysql with just those three steps. installing from source is the only way to get a package that is truly configure for your system. anything else might be able to come close, but definitely not the same. the level of optimization will not be there. the level of customization will definitely not be there.
i suppose i'm stuck trying to figure out why they pay people so much money to be system administrators then. The fact of the matter is that your
tell me how all of your ranting above differs philosophically from some old fogie clinging stubbornly to his punched card operated mainframe as God's greatest gift to mankind
simple. unfortunately, as precident shows, as you gain user-friendliness, you lose functionality. Look at windows. Look at MacOS. These are extremely intuitive operating systems (comparitively, at least). They don't have anywhere NEAR the functionality that *nix type operating systems do. They isolate the user from the lower-level system tasks in order to achieve this end. That, in my book, is facilitating laziness on the part of the end-user. Your punch-card analogy doesn't work here. I'm not saying i don't want the tool to get better. But as that tool becomes more functional, i want the users of that tool to use it to it's full potential. Perhaps my argument in the previous post was too much of a broad digression from the apt-get vs. rpm argument, but my assertions stand. 10 years ago, a "technical" person was an engineer, or a sysad, or a network admin. These days, i see "technical" people who boast the fact that they know what TCP/IP stands for. That, to me, is not a step forward.
FluX
After 16 years, MTV has finally completed its deevolution into the shiny things network
it's 2.5.0-test1betaAalpha3.0
should be out when linus cleans out his email box from all the "j3w 4r3 s00 1337. 3y3 w4nt t0 b3 li3k j3w" junk mail he'll be recieving from copious linux zealots.
say.....august?
FluX
After 16 years, MTV has finally completed its deevolution into the shiny things network
2.5 will be out very shortly, considering it will be the development branch of the 2.4 to 2.6 jump.
:(
sorry to be a technical asshole.
FluX
After 16 years, MTV has finally completed its deevolution into the shiny things network
heh. actually, to compile things "correctly" takes a good deal of knowledge about the system you're working on and what features of the package you want to install.
it comes down to this. a computer is a tool. i've often tried to reflect on why i feel a bit of disdain for products like MS Windows and MacOS. Or online services like AOL and the MSN. It's simply a matter of the laziness of the user. People are inherently lazy. they use products like the aformentioned because they don't want to know what makes their computer tick. they just want to get their little beige box on that internet they've heard so much about and look for porn, or how to make a fluffier quiche.
that just doesn't cut it in my book. and i realize, the disdain i feel is for those people that are supporting these services because they don't have a ravenous desire to learn anything and everything they can. They don't care what is going on in their computer. And that usually translates into almost every facet of their lives. that doesn't give me a lot of confidence in my species.
ok. anyway....end of rant. rpm and apt-get a poor utilities because they isolate the user from the machine that much more. It's the same as the GNOME vs. KDE argument. there are other, more intelligent and elegant choices, it's just that no one talks about them because they're not for the lazy (default install) people in this world.
FluX
After 16 years, MTV has finally completed its deevolution into the shiny things network
so that's what the boys at gabocorp have been doing all along!
those nefarious bastards!
FluX
After 16 years, MTV has finally completed its deevolution into the shiny things network
three days??????
you must ride the short bus to school
FluX
After 16 years, MTV has finally completed its deevolution into the shiny things network
god forbid a human should have to do any leg-work before installing a package.
FluX
After 16 years, MTV has finally completed its deevolution into the shiny things network
and yet another reason BSD users are able to talk shit ;-)
FluX
After 16 years, MTV has finally completed its deevolution into the shiny things network
damn. i should have listened to my friend when he told me not to pull the glibc2.2 source off the 1337h4x0rz0wnj3w.com mirror.
FluX
After 16 years, MTV has finally completed its deevolution into the shiny things network
no. i was thinking more along the lines of
...
...
...
#tar -zxf foo.tar.gz
#cd foo
#configure
#make
#make install
#echo Precompiled binaries are for the weak.
FluX
After 16 years, MTV has finally completed its deevolution into the shiny things network
what makes you think going anywhere is going to make things better. Being an expatriate is not all it's cracked up to be.
;-)
assume for a minute that you DO in fact leave the country. does this mean what the US does is not going to impact your life at all? nope. quite the contrary. being that the US is the most powerful country in the world (can you honestly argue the power point here?) ANY changes they make will be reflected elsewhere. Do you think that if the US were to get involved in a war that you would be safe in France, or Brittain (btw - i mean WAR, not skirmish).
you ask about personal freedom? do what i do....fuck secularity. I'm obeying my own laws. most of these are in accordance with my country's current laws, but many of them are not. For example, i have been told that i might be thrown into prison for the use of marijuana. I don't care. Marajuana is not morally wrong, economically, or socially wrong (at least by my standards) - and so, i continue to do it.
don't recognize IP if you don't want to. I certainly don't. Use napster. Technically, it's illegal...it's been illegal for a long time. That doesn't stop millions of americans from using the service. Lest you forget, it's not "really" illegal if everyone's doing it
why do you think i'm still smoking weed with impunity? (knock on wood).
FluX
After 16 years, MTV has finally completed its deevolution into the shiny things network
as a user, i think i may have found a solution to the whole apt-get vs. rpm argument that has been boiling over for ever so long. this package management system could possibly change the world:
*.tar.gz
FluX
After 16 years, MTV has finally completed its deevolution into the shiny things network
the principle, amigo.
FluX
After 16 years, MTV has finally completed its deevolution into the shiny things network