Slashdot Mirror
France To Tax Blank Computer Media
hmckee points to this
Reuters story on TechWeb indicating that French computer buyers may soon face extra fees to compensate artists for illegal copying, levied on hard drives as well as more conventional recording media like magnetic tape. Computer-based recordable media like CD-Rs and mini-disks will be taxed starting later this month as well. hmckee writes: "Although it's not definite for France, I didn't know Germany started at the beginning of the year."
So, if I own a camcorder, then maybe I've been using it to shoot porn and then sell it to my neighbors. It is certainly possible that my neighbors are then digitizing it, and then burning it on CDRs or giving out free copies on the Internet, which hurts my sales. Therefore, I will receive a periodic check from the government to compensate me, right?
All of the media taxes are based upon the assumption that there is single organization (or small number of organizations) who represent everyone who produces commercial content. This is bullshit, so the government is clearly subsidizing some private businesses at the expense of their competitors.
The problem is, it's almost true, and becoming truer. If there were more independent producers, then the above sham would become more blatant and obvious, and the government corruption would become uncomfortably exposed.
So the trick is for the media monopolies to dominate storage defacto standards. That way, you can't publish a DVD, broadcast HDTV, or serve a Sorenson Quicktime stream without signing some sort of contract, thereby assimilating you.
The only thing to do is use truly open standards, with no patents, so that nobody can twist your arm. Then you can compete with the megacorps, and as you gain marketshare, it will be harder and harder for politicians to justify the way they misappropriate the collected media tax.
The U.S. has already had this type of legislation in effect for years.
Staring this year, Danes have to pay an additional $0.5 (DKK 4) for each blank CD-R purchased. Protests were launched and people/stores stockpiled pre-tax media, but it looks like the tax is here to stay.
Personally, I'm ditching CD-R and moving to larger harddrives..
It also killed the media as a viable consumer alternative to CD's. Heaven forbid you can record on something. You're OBVIOUSLY going to be pirating the mass-marketed commercial bubble-gum garbage that the record companies put out. I don't think think a tax on CD-Rs will hold up in the USA if it ever happens. There are too many people that have the drives these days. Hell, all I use mine for are burning Linux CD's and making backups of my system. If I really wanted to listen to the bubble-gum rock I'd just play them off my hard drive or buy a car mp3 player with a hard drive.
Considering that's what I pay for the CD-R itself for decent quality 4x Media, I do consider that unreasonable (100% price increase.)
"'Tis great confidence in a friend to tell him your faults, greater to tell him his." --Poor Richard's Almanac
What about the computer game companies that have had to live with piracy?
This is great example of big business getting to the government, but, it's not the first, and it's not the last time.
Anyway, I won't repeat what others have already said, in this forum, and many others, but I do believe that a tax like that, would give you the right to copy music, but then again, have you enough money to fight for it?
VK3TST
-- "People aren't stupid. Usually." -- jd
I suggest e.g. Debian to file a formal request to receive part of the money. If I put Debian on a CD, should the money go to some music artist or to the SPI?
Why do you think everyone who visits the US from the EU comes back with more luggage than they leave? :)
no taxation without representation!
This is like Kansas applying such a tax. The French can just buy from a Dutch firm. I get my stuff through the post and I would not care if I had to get it from somewhere else. This is just so stupid it is surreal.
I do not believe for one minute that the money is intended for the artists, it is just another tax to raise money for stupid politicians. They cannot put any more on fuel so they are looking for other ways of robbing the people. They give some trite reason and expect the public to be stupid enough to believe them.
I love stacking my barbecues in the shed at the end of summer - you can't beat a bit of grill on grill action.
I live in France but I find this tax completely irrelevant to me, as I am quite close to the Belgian border.
However I fear that the french industry might find it less irrelevant for them as the only thing that can stupid taxes like that one bring is the creation of a black market.
I've been living in France for two years now and I have yet to see the government making a smart move.
--
Would you want to live in a "true" democracy? Would you let two wolves and a sheep vote on what to have for lunch?
Hear, hear. Yesterday morning in an interview, the fucked up bitch who happened to be the minister in charge of all this crap managed to shoot herself in the foot.
She announced taxes on hard drives, computers, memories, next generation telephones, bicycles ... well not bicycles but just ANYTHING digital.
Guess what? Majors elections soon ... and elections don't go well with the word 'tax', as you may have noticed ('read my lips' ...).
Lo and behold, she just got publically disavowed by both the prime minister and minister of finance, who have called her suggestion 'stupid', I quote litterally.
La résistance is setting itself up, people from major medias are calling for enquiry, the cause is getting major exposure. Just by this little mistake the minister might be going to eject soon, and her taxes alike.
Stay tuned ...
--
Hey Commie Boy -- the Socialist party in France came up with this brainiac idea to tax all digital media. Did you actually read the fscking article, or are you looking to run for office -- err, become appointed, Comrade!
"Fat, drunk, and stupid is no way to go through life."
"You're gonna need a bigger boat." - Chief Brody
Yeah, instead of having a government that takes away your property and money because you might be a criminal, lets trade that for a government that takes away your property and money because it believes it's more intellectually equipped to use them wisely than you are.
Guess what, skippy? Communist governments are comprised of human beings too, with all their prejudices, irrationalities, and corruption. You think giving *absolute* power to a bunch of goobers is gonna help? Changing the political label changes nothing. NOTHING.
At least the US makes its politicians run around like little circus monkeys in order to do what they do. At least there's some entertainment!
Oh yeah, one more thing. When You OverCapitalize And Make Up Words (corporatist? haha) In Your Sentences You Look Like A Person Who Needs A Gimmick To Distract The Reader(TM) From Lack Of Substance.
Do please stay on the Continent. You can't have America's resources, no matter how much you covet them.
Hokey statistics and ancient misconceptions are no match for a good thought in your head, kid!
Well, I dunno about 'Insightful', but it sure the hell is 'Funny'.. =)
Hokey statistics and ancient misconceptions are no match for a good thought in your head, kid!
Whether or not you agree with tobacco or not (I do not smoke) The governments seem to be making companies and the consumer pay for other people peoples issues. But is this what government has been doing for years. All well that's life.
One is promoting yourself online and then selling CDs, which works out very well, even for the big labels. You don't have to sign with a big label to sell CDs. The other is the Street Performer Protocol, when the artists collect voluntary donations before the music is released, and release it when a certain sum has accumulated.
And, of course, the other methods that you mentioned also seem to work pretty well. Users giving artists voluntary tips does happen. (OK, Stephen King is a bad example. He's already famous.)
--
I thought that you got rid of the socialists
to get someone less prone to empty your
pockets. When is the next legislative elections?
In our state we have a republican governor. (Michigan)
Republicans always campaign against taxes but
our governor is one of the biggest promoter of
an internet tax as are most of the republican
governors.
I think that if it was up to the republicans
they would replace the income tax with a stiff
VAT on virtually everything which would screw
everyone who have to spend most or a large
part of their income.
Republicans are for tax cuts for themselves and
that's it. I wouldn't be surprising to find
some interesting taxes like yours around here
eventually.
Thats a lame proposition. How do you think governmnets work ? Everytime you buy are car you pay tax... we pay something around 7 to 8 % in US. That doesn't mean that we should go copying cars... no... thats not what its for. They are used to build roads...etc. The reason why some things are not taxed is because government things that its better for the progress/growth for something to be tax free... as it could fuel economy. In India gasoline is subsidised... just like many outer contries.. how do you think goverment gets money for that ? Yes... from the so called "copying-tax-for-blank-cds".
There are many ways of calling a government lame.. but this is not one of them.
They might have seen it in a diff way.
1. May be Blank CDs are no more fueling economy.
2. May be there was a subsidy attached to the raw material which the CD manufacturers use. And gorvernment now thinks that it should compensate for the loss.
3. May be government is trying to promote people from buying "processed" CDs so that there is more tax on that...
This is very normal... there is nothing to be concerned here. What I am interested to know is why they changed thier minds all of a sudden.
No, it's your logic that is flawed. The allegory would only hold if there was a specific tax on, say, baseball bats, which was then used to compensate victims beaten with baseball bats.
I think what I like best about this comment is the fact that it got modded up under the reasoning "Insightful" and not "Funny". Not that I disagree. If we could ship all the boy bands up north (or maybe even to France) I would laud this comment as "Visionary." :)
-jdm
Of course, I guess it does give a couple of moderators the chance to mod it up to 3 and feel smug that *they* understood it. :-)
And please don't berate me for being an ignorant monolingual American - I speak, read and write Spanish, Portuguese and English. All I'm saying is I wouldn't post here in one of those languages just because the topic concerned Spain or Brazil and I could.
-Your friendly neightborhood Mr. Manners
...and they're even charging a tax of 2.20F ($0.31) on removable memory dedicated for audio (i.e. Memory Sticks).
They're splitting the tax on audio products 25% studios, 25% artists and 50% author's unions with the video product tax being distributed equally between the three (33.3% each). Anyone in the know care to comment on the fairness of this?
This has effectively doubled the price of a CD-R (used to be about FRF 5 each, now they're FRF 8.70) so even though I actually prefer to buy the original (nicer to have and less hassle), I think I'll probably be copying CDs as a matter of principle (to catch up on lost time, too!)
Anyway, its really easy to get hold of CD-Rs elsewhere (I'll have to check duty free in Heathrow next time I'm there), so you have to wonder how effective this will be fore those who are actually doing the large amounts of copying. Wonder how many websites I can find that sell CD-Rs cheaper than I could buy them before, anyway...
DS
If the masses started stealing from the shops (I'd imagine that shop thieves outnumber the people who copy music) that wouldn't suddenly mean that we can start demanding the government to get rid of the laws punishing theft, does it?
Still, the French government are not going about this the right way. It's like putting a tax on all items in shops to refund the shopkeepers for lost revenue from theft! Doesn't get more stupid than that!
DS
Right on brother!
Actually, this is an assumption. I have seen the word "disc" used to describe any sort of flat, circular object, frying pans included.
However, as Mr. Webster says, they are simply variants of each other.
It's not just CD medias they're talking about; it's also harddrives and any other digital storage media which the plan to tax here in Denmark.
They plan to make a refund scheme where companies can get the tax refunded if they provide receipts etc., but it's a pay tax first, then get it refunded-kind of scheme. Just adds up to the bureaucracy - I'd think it would cost more to maintain this kind of control than it brings in in revenue.
Q: How does a Unix guru have sex? A: unzip;strip;touch;finger;mount;fsck;more;yes;umount;sleep
I've heard that Germany charges 30EUR (about as many dollars) for each computer sold, though.
The massive and outraged reaction of the public opinion here has led the government to remind the culture minister that she should care more about culture and less about taxation.
Whoever decided not to fortify the border with Belgium was as much of a twit as Petain was.
Actually the border with Belgium was fortified, but those cunning Jerries used paratroops to drop on and bypass the fortifications (Fort Eben Emael)
Secondly the Belgian army lasted about 3 weeks, a remarkably long time considering it fought against overwhelming superiority of both numbers and equipment. IIRC, Belgium and Holland were neutral, as they were at the start of the First World War, but the Germans didn't let a little thing like that spoil a good plan.
Technically, the attack on Belgium and Netherlands was a decoy, intended (successfully) to draw the Allied forces forward, so that the main attack through the Ardennes forest to the south would meet with little opposition and encircle most of the Allied forces.
The main problems with the Allied defence was
a) the Maginot line was only very partially complete in the area of the Ardennes forest.
b) Static forward defences don't really work that well nowadays against a mobile opponent. You need to defend in depth, and be willing to trade ground for good ambush points.
c) the German forces were battle hardened and tested with recent wars and campaigns against inexperienced and largely outdated Allied forces.
Anyway fortifying borders is incredibly difficult, time consuming and expensive, something the Allies were incredibly grateful for when payback time came round in the form of D-Day. If it wasn't for the fact that the Normandy beaches were (relatively) lightly fortified, we'd probably still be trying to work out how to invade Occupied France today.
Donte Alistair Anderson Roberts - hi son!
Karma: Chameleon
Maestro came back to Canada because there was too much competition in NYC and his records went nowhere.
So he comes back to Toronto, samples The Guess Who, and promptly begins selling more records.
The best thing I ever saw about The Guess Who is that they made it big with NO CanCon laws. Ah well.
Pope
Freedom is Slavery! Ignorance is Strength! Monopolies offer Choice!
It doesn't mean much now, it's built for the future.
Governments have the right, as the electorate, to levy taxes that help fund the government.
This is not at all like the taxation on blank computer media (or, in the case of the U.S, blank audio media). In these cases the government is allowing a tax on an item for the intent of giving that tax revenue back to the company. This isn't a tax that the populace wanted. This is a tax that the lobbiests managed to get.
If I'm paying a company for a good or a service, regardless of how that money is collected, then I think I have the legal right to actually make use of that good or service. So, if I have to pay a tax on blank media so that companies can recoup some money from piracy then I think I have the legal right to actually make a copy of something that company produces-even if I don't own an original.
No, sir. You are mistaken. There were only Germans, French Civilians and God's true people, the warriors of the United States of America, in France during the Second World War.
I know this because "Saving Private Ryan" told me it.
We have this tax in Sweden too, IIRC.
Thousands of English people go on day trips to France, bringing back beer wine and tobacco from the hypermarkets and avoiding UK tax & duty.
Seems as though a CD-R shop near Dover would be a good business venture.
CD-Rs abd mini-disks are now taxed, but the governement is speaking about adding the same type of taxes to computers and averithing that may store music or film. The're talking to add about 500 F (about 70 $) to the price off computers, huuuugh !
In Arizona a couple of years ago, a similar occurance happened with Marijuana. The state of Arizona, in an effort to be tough on crime, imposed a Marijuana Tax. You got hit with possesion and tax evasion when busted. Kind of a double whammy. It backfired. If you paid your tax before you were busted, you got protection under the double jeapordy clause.
[In case anyone cares, this first post, although in French, was obviously translated from English in the first place (and automated translation still has a long way to go...)]
BTW, regarding the first reply to this mesages, this would-be tax won't be used for any government funding (retirement plans, etc.) but instead will be completely repaid to *private* firms, self proclaimed artist protectors, the biggest of which is the SACEM in France (our equivalent of the RIAA). I seem to remember that there was a survey last year (last century?) that more or less came down to the fact that piracy made it easier to sample music and therefore HELPED sell records to people who otherwise would not even have known they were interested to buy them. But we keep earing the usual bullshit (like this morning on the radio : piracy made the majors lose 1.3billion Euros in Europe last year, wonder where the figures come from).
The problem is that if you have perfectly legitimate needs for long-term archiving of large quantities of data (archiving a web site, digital camera pictures, etc.), you will still have to pay as if you were a criminal, and the government (which means OUR money) will be used to collect this tax for PRIVATE firms. Go figure.
And the worst part : who will decide how to share this tax between the record industry, the movie distributors, and the game industry??
My guess : SACEM : 80%, the film business 20%, and the rest will go to the game producers.....
For those who wish to help get rid of this tax :
http://www.vachealait.com
Fabien BERNARD.
/*I guess Communism is beginning to look alot more appealing, eh*/
Um. No.
/*Imagine: State owned business (no monopolies screwing us) */
Right. Instead of Coke or Pepsi, it's State Cola. Instead of Linux or Microsoft, it's State OS. And you'd better be goddamned happy about it, or what are you gonna do? Go to the competition? Oh yeah. There is no competition there, is there? I'd much rather let the market forces shake out the losers than let some fucking poltician tell me what *I* need. The same could go towards "corporatism", as well, but Microsoft nor Nike ever threatened me with jail sentences for non-compliance/consumerance. And remember, if the average citizen got to "vote" for an official state OS, Linux ain't gonna win.
/*a planned economy (what advantage do proprietary standards and IP have?)? */
I've never bought into the anti-IP bullshit that's been going around. Sure, you shouldn't be able to patent or copyright "hello world", but WORD ain't "hello world". Millions of lines of bloated word processing programming, maybe. And keep your grubby planned economy out of my mother fuckin' bank account.
Now, having said that, I'm also not all for Nike and "corporatism" as some people put it. I don't approve of companies who make MORE than some countries are worth going into those countries and propping up their dictators to provide cheap slave labor to produce shoes that they STILL sell for $100/pr. I also don't buy into the "You are what you buy" mentality. How much can YOU really live on if you had to go minimalist? My favorite movie of late has been Fight Club, strictly for some of the message: YOU are not your bankaccount. You are not what you buy. It doesn't matter what people *think*, what matters is what they *know*. But, that's my choice.
Opinions are like assholes. Everyone else's stinks but yours.
If you were me, you'd be good lookin'. - six string samurai
People need to get over this stupid concept that every tax under the sun is some "liberal/socialist" conspiracy. Oh, and btw, the answer to all this "I paid the tax so I can pirate now right?" is of course a resounding no. There is no government out there that won't have Sony, BMI, Seagrams, etc lobbying to make sure that a loophole like that is ever exploited. An additional tax is not going to somehow invalidate current copyright laws and WIPO treaty agreements.
I don't want knowledge. I want certainty. - Law, David Bowie
Well, no. But I do think about Soylent Green and keeping those movie/music industry fatcats well fed.....
I don't want knowledge. I want certainty. - Law, David Bowie
yesterday on canal + they announced the tax on CDs would be 4.5FF and on DVD 29.5FF (i have no idea if they talk about DVD or DVD where you can write though)
now since a blank CD costs 5-12FF this tax is likely to double the price, i am really thinking it will improve the CD sales in monaco since i live in Nice, only a couple kms from it.
i am really sad the prices will rise, after all we had to wait some time for those things to get cheap before we could buy them, and now it's making it unafordable for quite some people.
i don't call it fair that people cannot pay for a hdd because it got taxed like cigarettes.
-- x
WRONG! Socialism can and does work. In quite a few European countries.
Sweden for example is highly socialist. Highest taxes in the world, 100% free education and health, of extremely high quality.
And guess what? You don't see Swedes dying from hunger or arrested in Gulags.
Ballerinas have fins that you'll never find
This fee has already been around for a long time for music cassettes in the Netherlands. The fee for CD-R's has been introduced since 1998. But there's a difference between MC's and CD's; CD's are used a lot more for other purposes than copying music so the fee for these CD's is a bit `unreasonable' but I think it's fair enough...by the way...the fee is NLG 1,08 per hour (less than USD 0.5).
0x or or snor perron?!
In fact, the tax is about 3.7 FF for a CD-RW, about 0.5 US$. You can find the draft at this page: http://www.culture.fr/culture/actualites/politique /copie-privee.htm
At the end of the page, there is a table with the price in FF (divide by 7 approx. for US$).
I do not agree with this tax for this real reason: the author society that will redistribute the money is one of the most unclear and devious company, they have no clear accountability, it's awful.
I also do not agree with the principle, but life is full of compromises.
That's all, no need to bother you any more.
Actually, you wouldn't have taxes in communism. Why bother-- it would be inefficient. The government would simply decide how many bicycles and cars everyone should have, and then price them so that people had to have the proper amount. If too many comrades bought bicycles and hurt the nationalized car industry, the national government, for the good of the country, would raise bike prices. And so on. A communist government would of course set the prices of beer and wine so that the "right" amount of each were produced and consumed.
These restrictions are socialist. A communist government would obviously act to protect its businesses. That's why all communist countries made strikes illegal-- because strikers were automatically rebelling against the good of the people, as already determined. That's why it's illegal in Cuba to be absent from work, punishable with imprisonment.
We are trying to scientifically build a higher Socialist society where humanity can grow, and we have scientifically determined the proper musical allocation to bring happiness to the people. You do not have the right to selfishly commandeer the productive capacities of the people to produce your own CDs. Any CDs you want can be produced by the glorious State Industry. Your desire to produce your own CDs is clearly borne of a desire to sell them yourself, you aspiring capitalist running dog!
And the French government has the Socialist party in charge, with Communists in the Cabinet.
Price difference, not physical difference. The media is the same, but the "Audio CDRs" are invariably priced several dollars higher than a similar (same manufacturer, same quanity) of "Data CDRs"
----
----
Am I the only one who thinks Microsoft is a misnomer? Perhaps Macrosoft would be a better fit?
But isn't that tag written by the device, not prewriteen on the media?
A pit which marks a bit is a pit which is a bit..
----
----
Am I the only one who thinks Microsoft is a misnomer? Perhaps Macrosoft would be a better fit?
Except that taxation that goes into the coffers of private entities is not taxation, it's armed robbery.
No, I'm not going to read the article, it will just waste precious seconds for ranting.
Boss of nothin. Big deal.
Son, go get daddy's hard plastic eyes.
Expanding a vast wasteland since 1996.
Actually he is more right than wrong.
1. Copying applies to physical media, eg photocopies of books. Apparently copying of "soft" things TV broadcasts, music are not covered if used for personal use.
2. Its a different country than the US. Different laws, don't assume.
The surprise isn't how often we make bad choices; the surprise is how seldom they defeat us.
Actually, as there is no easy way to find out who has been ripped of most, they just assume that the ratio rippoff/sales is roughly the same for all artists. Hence more sales means more popularity which means also more ripoffs.
> Btw, RIAA in france, sounds like a take-over of some sorts. I thought the French was nationalists,
This is probably not the RIAA per se, but rather SACEM, the French RIAA equivalent. They are at least as ferocious as the RIAA themselves, and even tax orchestras for songs they play themselves, and occasionnally even for songs that the orchestras composed themselves...
But now, with this French CD tax, we have nothing to worry about: instead of selling petrol, cigarettes and booze to our French neighbors, we'd sell CD-R's instead.
In his seminal PBS video series, "Triumph of the Nerds," Robert Cringely notes that engineers like computer coding because it is something that can be understood. . . "unlike the motivations of young women . . . or of the French."
...bum.
I have some idea about the former, but I'm baffled by the latter.
This is not a comment about the French citizens but IS about French policy-makers... historically they have had a knack for keeping life awkward by confusing all the issues. (read: If I coached a baseball team of French politicians I'd put them all out in left field cause that's where they'd end up anyway).
bahdum
From the article:
"It seems to me that the emergence of new technologies has undermined artists' earnings... there is no business model for culture unless artists are paid. Without them there is neither music nor video images," the minister was quoted as saying.
Uhm... Excuse me? Is the esteemed Ms. Tasca saying that all of this money is going directly to the artists? I can just see the headlines now: "Culture Minister Feeds Starving Artists in the Streets."
Unfortunately, no. The article says that about 75% of the money will go to "artists and producers" (Babelfish translation from "Bullshit" to "English:" "producers"), while the other 25% goes to promote "fresh talent" (More from the 'fish from Bullshit to English: "We're going to make more record industry-created bands to pick your pocket, just like we've been doing, and we're going to do it with your money! Stop us if you can, suckers!").
More from the article:
"A tax on decoders, advanced video recorders and computers, in other words any device that allows such works to be recorded... should be looked into," she [Minister Tasca] added.
No, again. Christ, why do none of these people get it? THERE IS A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN CAPACITY AND ACTUALITY. Just because something "can" be used to do something doesn't mean it *will*, and therefore it is (or, rather, would be, if these people had a brain in their heads) untaxable. I'm completely failing to understand why no legislators seems to understand this issue.
Hell, last I checked, VOTERS lobbied, not industries.
How does France get their Ministers? They need to get one with a clue.
inigima
Despite what the GOP has been telling you, taxes and fines are not the same thing. A tax can be burdensome, unfair, ill-conceived, and unreasonably high but that does not make it into a fine or form of punishment.
Let's look at it another way: Since your local tax dollars pay to repair vandalism at public buildings, does that mean that everyone who lives in your locality is facing a pre-fine or collective punishment for vandalism? Of course not.
Of course not. But, as you've pointed out, taxes and fines aren't the same thing. This may be called a tax, because it's pre-collected, but come on now, be reasonable. This is a punishment for piracy. How can one possibly misconstrue that? And as was pointed out above, collective punishments are illegal (although I suppose I don't actually know about France's laws on the issue).
Happily, Tasca withdrew the proposal, so we're all happy now =)
inigima
If the government spends your tax money on a shelter for battered women, does that mean that it should be legal for you to beat your wife? If they levy a tax to clean up a waterway, does that mean that you should be legally allowed to dump your trash in it because you paid the tax?
That argument doesn't quite hold water. Those things are used as remedies. If this tax is to compensate artists for lost sales due to copyright infringement (and statistical surveys show [and statistical surveys are valid if they're done properly] that, if anything, the opposite is true), then the assumption is being made that YOU, Joe Consumer, are a pirate. If they're wrong(!) about Mr. Consumer, it is not compensation for a crime you've committed (a là the O.J. analogy), but for a crime that they THINK you MIGHT be committing -- purely on the basis of the fact that you bought some CD-Rs. Y'know, there are actual uses for those things besides music piracy.
Don't you DARE tell poor Joe that he has to pay out the nose because the record execs have linked CD-R purchases to music piracy. That would be like a statistical survey showing a correlation between... I don't know, say, root beer consumption and liver cancer. Correlation is not proof of causation -- anyone who's ever studied statistics at any depth knows that, or should. There are perfectly valid, legal reasons to buy CD-Rs.
inigima
True - but even had the guns been "turnable" - who cares? The beauty (from the point of view of a strategist) of the Blitz was that it didn't matter.
Break the line in a small place (in this case, Belgium). Blast through at high speed - hence the name blitz-krieg (lit. "lightning war"), outflank, and you've got a win-win choice: Blast the enemy to smithereens from behind, or just ignore him and drive forward as long as your air support holds out.
The Maginot line was the canonical case of "Generals are always prepared to fight the last [i.e. most recent] war". Maginot was the right technique for the slow "human wave" mass cavalry/infrantry movements of WWI. It was a staggeringly wrong technique for mechanized/mobile infantry with overwhelming air superiority of WWII.
That's not a criticism of the French, BTW, just a recap of military history.
Before we start dissing the French, I should point out that we 'murricans were damn lucky (or damn smart, whichever reading of Pearl you want to take) to have our carriers out of harm's way during Pearl - we basically invented modern (carrier-based, vs. battleship-based) naval warfare from scratch, and it was probably a combination of military genius (Nimitz and many others) spurred on by necessity ("Holy crap! They sank our battleship! We've got carriers and nothin' else! How are we supposed to fight?") that we pulled it off. Thankfully, we also had a couple of years and thousands of miles of ocean between "us" and "them", during which we were able to figure out how to fight and win. (Remember that until Midway and Coral Sea, we were losing the Pacific war.)
Unlike the US in the Pacific war, the French generals had 20 years of complacency, and only a couple of months to learn the new rules before the enemy was at the gate. It's small wonder they got trounced, and IMHO no stationary artillery platform, would have changed the outcome.
Well, I've looked at a few posts, and it seems to me that I'm one of the few on Slashdot that think that, even tough this is not great for the consumer, it is logical and I can understand why government will be taxing CD-R. Ok so I don't know all the details since I didn't read the whole article because I'm in a hurry, but, from what I've gathered so far, it seems to me that the France government wanted to be a good sport to software company, while being a bitch to others. After all, IF this tax only applied to CD-Rs sold in stores, not the one sold to record companies, this seems logical, since I'm pretty sure that if you asked 20 people what their are doing to do with the blank CD-Rs, I'm sure that that study would show that 75% or more of them are going to copy stuff illegally (games, apps, movies, etc). Since one of the government jobs is to reduce crime and make sure it's citizen aren't doing anything illegal (in this case, it's stealing), then I think it is in it's own rights to tax CD-Rs
I have to admit that this could sound logical, *but* your argument sounds a bit like:
They ordered me to do it, so you cannot blame me
Money making -and inherently corporations- are evil, because where someone makes money someone looses money too.
Imho for example we - the Western World - can only exist in the way we are now, because we keep the Third World poor. We sell arms to them, give them loans against ridiculous interest rates and please dont tell me your government is helping them, because that is just a drop of water on a glowing plate.
In this case you are writing that although because coporations are persueing goals which we would rather not see happening they are not evil? Of course they are! They might be just as evil as the government which in its eager to make money (yes they want to, as the coporations) is taxing this because of the wrong reasons (read: excuse)
- In Memoriam: Jeroen de Bruin (1972-2004), bye bro
they could always sell re-recordable media with data on it to begin with
i believe that at some point in the US, people would buy DAT tapes w/ data on them, and then erase them and use them in their audio DAT equipment to avoid taxes
Need a Catering Connection
There was a time when taxes were not viewed as punishment. This is a tax, not a fine, whether you, I, or the people of France like it.
It's compensation to the recording industry for piracy, hence a fine. The government can call it a tax all they want, but that's not what it is.
If the government spends your tax money on a shelter for battered women, does that mean that it should be legal for you to beat your wife?
If you get married, should you be forced to spend time in jail on the chance that you might someday beat your spouse?
There was a time when you actually had to commit a crime before you were punished for it.
>
....just making the point that neither of us approaches any kind of fair or well-regulated capitalism.
funnily enough, even with the U.S. tax on blank tapes, U.K. blanks *still* cost more (along with practically everything else). Granted, your VAT supports decent healthcare for every single British citizen, etc., but the most shocking sticker i've seen in the UK has to be in the music stores... avg CD price seems to be about $23! Anyway, i'm not saying i wouldn't trade my U.S. corporate exploitation for your bulky beuracracy,
stu.
i work in a computer store. the levey took affect on jan 1/01 on all new orders from the manufactures. if its in a store now, on in a wholesalers warehouse somewhere, its safe from the levy., but when those run out, up goes the price.
the way i see it, my levy on a disk just goes to buy a licence for whatever, at a discounted rate.
ianal but in Canada, copyright allows us to make non commercial copies for personal use.
One problem that arises from this is that the copyright information does not only restrict copying of the media, but also lending, loaning, and renting. Libraries can loan CDs and videos, as well as video stores, but I think it requires a certain license to do so (not to say you can't loan your CDs to your friends... but there's got to be a line in there somewhere so you can't have a massive lending library for CDs and videos out of your home).
Just my 4 pfennig.
-----
"Defenestration" is to throw out of a window; what's a word for throwing 'Windows' out of something?
Oh, right. And nobody would notice. Nobody would do anything about it. Loopholes always stay open forever, even when people take advantage of them en masse.
And if you believe them, I've got a tape to sell you. No, no, it's not blank -- I pre-recorded it with static hiss.
And maybe you should (re)open a history book and read about WW2 in europe, and this time, try to understand it.
As for the yahoo nazi auctions bans asked by the french gvt, I don't think it's a good idea but i don't think this is worst than evil-izing communism through decades of brainwash of an entire country either.
I would say the fear of repeating history is probably less stupid than the fear of the unknown. But that's just me.
Let Germany keep France after the war ? From what i grasped in school, when the war was over, France wasn't occupied, thanks to the FFI, the resistance, and to a good extent, to the US army whose veterans you're insulting.
Now the big question is: Do you have to be certified by the authorities if you want to import CDs from a neighboring EU country? Or will it be like wine and beer: You may only take the amount of CDs over the border, that you are going to use yourself. And when your sailship goes from Amsterdam to Paris, your ship might be stopped by a boat patrol, asking if you bring any wine, cigarettes, beer or blank CDs.
I own a company that publishes software inside the European Union. Who do I contact to get my share of the revenue generated from this tax? Do I have to speak french? ;-)
I just made an inquiry to the danish organization, that distributes the CD tax money, http://www.copydan.dk/, to hear if I could get my part of the money.
The money only goes to artists, not to software producers, because copying software is illegal, whereas copying music and films is legal for private purposes (!!!!).
I also asked if I could get some money if I had publicised some art on the internet (which I have - photographs - see http://www.cat-photo.com/), and the answer was no again (!). This time, the answer was, that the law that regulates this is from 1992, and does not cover materials published on the internet.
I would like to see that one in a trial!!!
The danish minister of culture also considers taxing CD recorders. The decision will be made after she finds out how much money the blank CD tax will give when it starts in april 2001.
Danish newspaper article:
http://www.berlingske.dk/artikel:aid=82084
HP in Germany has paid tax for each CD writer they have sold in Germany since 1998...
It is legal, but the EU commision works on a directive on the subject right now.
France is not the only country. Denmark started to do the same in january, but then stopped again, in order to delay it until april 2001.
Not that the EU is the paradise, but you should know that the EU has nothing to do with this French affair. However, what we Europeans have to do is to do our utmost to stop this kind of policy migrating to the European level.
I can see the risk, since this could be an internal market issue since the French cannot enforce this law because of the Schengen treaty which stipulates that there are no border controls between most (continental) EU countries. This means that all the French consumer has to do is to take a train (or whatever) and go to Belgium or some other country - even to Germany with its lower HDD tax.. No problems since there are no border controls! Therefore in this case the EU is actually good for the French people (and Belgian businesses, too..)
From the French point of view there would be a need to get this kind of legistlation to the European level. Stopping this propably would not be that hard, because this is a taxation issue in which the decisions in EU level would have to be taken in unanimity.
So for the time being we can all enjoy seeing the French government getting embarassed, big time!
-miKa-
I wonder if you could use that as a legal defense. "Since I bought taxed media, I already compensated the copyright holder."
Oh wait. This is France. A tribunal of bribed judges will just do whatever they want.
There's definitely a tax on audio CD-Rs, which explains their higher price versus data CD-Rs, and I'm sure other media -- even "computer" media -- as well.
There's 10 types of people in this world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
I would rather see the big corporations get it than Celine Dion! Anyways, you got a good point there though. Probably more than 50% of the tax will go to the government to pay for whatever method they have of collecting. Useless government waste!
Buying a Dell computer is equivalent to dropping the soap in a prison shower.
This is similar to the stamp tax which we(at least those of us born in the U.S.) all learned in our fourth grade history class was one of the things leading to the American Revolution.
The british required people in the Americas to pay a tax to have each piece of paper stamped. Somehow we seem to have come remarkable far in the last 300 years.
"as plurdled gabbleblotchits on a lurgid bee" - Prostetnic Vogon Jeltz. (One man's humorous is another mans flamebait)
If they didnt have the power to regulate they way they do there would be no need for campaign finaice reform (which has first ammendment issues)If the goverment had to follow strict constructionalist reading of the constituion this wouldnt be a problem. You give the power to regulate back to states and states alone watch K street dry up. But then the special interest wouldnt allow that. 50 places to spread the effort. Thats would spread them to thin. What to do what to do. The left will never give up federalism in any shape or form. So they have to either take way the right of association (campaign finaice reform) or let goverment distrubute goods. Ayan Rand (whom i do not follow) had it right. Captilism is an unknown ideal. (wish spell check button was placed after Preview button) :)
Your assumming a zero sum game is true. This agrument is has raged with economist. IMHO its not true
I have one question -- how the hell do I copy a car?
I hope they tax the hell out of blank canvas too.
We artists are sick and tired of that stuff being
used to create forgeries of honest paintings.
A tax on marriage because it costs the whores more money.
At the intersection of computation and biology.
"*If* there is any money left after RIAA processes it, the money goes to artists in proportion to their sales."
I'm not sure if this is just your wording, or wether you've got a source. But isn't the idea of piracy that artists don't get sales? If there were any justice, this tax would go to artists who are ripped off, not to those who actually sell their albums. Of course I know there's no justice, and can never be. But giving most money to those who sell most, smells like sweet hypocricy to me.
However, considering the new RIAA executives' payrolls, I doubt there'll be much left anyways, so this discussion is moot.
Btw, RIAA in france, sounds like a take-over of some sorts. I thought the French was nationalists, but are now suddenly willing to bend over. Long live the free market, long live RIAA! =)
- Steeltoe
http://www.debunkingskeptics.com/
and we all know what a success DAT tapes were in the consumer market as a result...
People here don't die from hunger or in concentration camps like they do in communist or national socialist states, but they do suffer (and some probably die) while standing in the "bread" lines awaiting an operation. Unless, of course they have money of their own and can pay for a private hospital to help them without having to stand in line.
Here, just like in any other state, socialist or not, people with money do well. Those without don't. You don't have to like it but that's the way it is.
Installed the Bubblemon yet?
If they're going to introduce this in the Netherlands, I will sue the state personally. The state can simply not force me to pay for a product for which I've sworn myself to boycot (and that will be Holywood, Microsoft, and the majority of RIAA products). I think the state needs to prove to me, that the 'artists' whom get protected actually receive the money I pay extra for digital media. I think the state needs to prove that Microsoft et al does not receive a penny from my pocket. A law like this simply takes away my freedom of speech - the right to boycot a product and a company. With extra taxing laws on digital media, this boycot is simply impossible.
Bizar technology?
So your solution would be a tax on people?
I'm curious as to where exactly this money will be filtering to? It's already a gray area as to who is really being affected by all hte movement of digital media.
Also, how is the government going to decide who the money goes to, just becuase my CD sales went down doesn't mean that I'm entitled to some tax moneys.....
I'm an AIX Systems administrator, and yes I do cry myself to sleep at night....
Quote from that page:
To paraphrase the introduction to the Copyright Board's ruling:
It does not matter whether you own the original sound recording (on any medium), you can legally make a copy for your own private use.To emphasize this point, endnote 4 of the Copyright Board's ruling says:
I used up all my sick days, so I'm calling in dead.
I'm going to steal from everybody in case they steal from me first. I also don't really have to care about a great alarm system on my house anymore because I'm making out like a bandit anyway by picking pockets. Besides, everybody keeps hacking my alarm anyway and I keep spending more and more money on the whole deal. Yeah, I'm going to be raking in the dough, but It's not for me :)
Who had talked about logic? The matter is juridical, and anyone knows that lawyers aren't logical :-)
Besides that, there are precedents about similar matters (if you put your fence 5m farther than it should be, and pay taxes about this, so it is allowed)
Isn't it unconstitutional in the U.S.?
The government levying taxes for private concerns. Or to phrase it in constitutional language: taxes are being levied for an unelected body that does no represent the tax payer.
I believe collective punishments are illegal. You don't pre-fine every car owner only because statistically people illegally park and get away with it.
Well, it proves this: a country with "democractic" in its name most likely isn't. A field of study with "science" in its name almost certainly isn't.
The illegal we do immediately. The unconstitutional takes a little longer.
--Henry Kissinger
Floppies are as much of a "computer medium" as the CD-R. They can, in fact, hold many songs pirated through the Internet.
Furthermore, this fails to address the spread via broadband connections. FTP servers should be next.
|/usr/games/fortune
Because people want control. They want their neighbors to be like themselves. They don't just want to ignore things they don't like, they often don't want those things to exist and wish to make actions they disapprove of illegal. Sometimes this is all under the guise of "improving" the other person.
Obviously I'm generalizing a great deal here, and generalizations aren't always right. But generally, people are nosy. They want to correct things they don't like, even if it isn't their business. That's why they won't leave you alone.
Sometimes I'm suprised how far ahead of us Europe is. With many social issues such as drugs being treated way more properly than here than in the United States, or with the Death Penalty being outlawed. Other times, though, like this, I'm suprised how they manage to walk with their ass on backwards. I seriously hope this is not a glimmer of things to come for the United States.
Audio requires a lot less quality? What rot! Check out any *.rec.audio* newsgroup and the web to find a huge amount of flaming &c. about the quality of CD audio. The reason it appears to allow more space on the disc is because (IIRC!) the error checking capabilities of the CD standards are used in a different way, so freeing up lots of bits.
http://blog.grcm.net/
> fucking you?
Actually, no. See, I'm smart, talented and hard-working (err... workaholic ;)
So, I can live the american dream (y'know, the "work hard, get paid for what you do, lather, rinse, repeat...") and be much better off under those evil greedy corporations than I was under benevolent leadership of CPSU.</sarcasm>
Yeah, US is in no way perfect. No, nobody's figured out a better way to live yet, and sure as hell didn't implement one that would work for a nation of over 50Mil people for over 100 years.
-DVK
"The right to figure things out for yourself is the only true freedom everyone shares. Go use it"-R.A.Heinlein
this is like taxing cars because some of them can be used as getaway vehicle in a bank robbery
;)
.sig
I wonder how they decide how much you par for car insurance...
Hope it doesn't count the accidents/(+robbery/vandalism) per capita... because it would mean that i pay for crazy drivers... gee... i wonder why it cost so much for my friend to get insurance on his red sport car... he's 18...
phobos% cat
phobos% cat
cat:
Holy crap, why hasn't anybody thought of that before? Any lawyers here? How would that hold up in court?
Standard floppy holds about 1.44MB of data. ... And you can only store one song each on a floppy.
MIDI has an approximate bitrate of 20 kilobytes per minute for moderately complex pieces, allowing an entire symphony to fit on a floppy. NES music is ten times leaner than that; you'd be amazed what can be done with three tone generators and a noise generator.
Like Tetris? Like drugs? Ever try combining them?
Will I retire or break 10K?
I wonder if it is cheaper for them to order CD-Rs and the like from US or other "non EU" countries.
Two potential problems:Like Tetris? Like drugs? Ever try combining them?
Will I retire or break 10K?
Unless people fill up entire disks with 100MB's of garbage, I don't think 1K on a disk will cut it as "non-blank" media.
So put ZipSlack on the Zip disks.
Like Tetris? Like drugs? Ever try combining them?
Will I retire or break 10K?
(IANA French L, but I play one on Slashdot)
b re99/990906f.html
According to the French legislation,
Article L. 122-5 from the Intellectual Property Code (in French, sorry)
in 2nd alinea it is said that you can copy non-software intellectual property for the private use of the copist.
(and it's the same text that allows fair use, in alinea 3.)
about twenty years ago (when audio tape appeared), the definition of "the copist" was refined to be "the owner of the copying apparatus".
For instance, you can copy CD albums to run them in your car CD player, as long as you still own the CD burner.
a few years ago, when CD burners were REALLY expensive, "CD copy center" shops appeared, where you brought your cd to copy, they selled you the balnk CD, and copied it for a fee. it was a fringe case of private copy, and the finally were shut down...
and to answer to another post, it won't be a govnernment office who will administrate the tax, it'a a small company (which already gets the taxes from analogic blank media) the SORECOP
it's due to get about 700 M FF(106 M Euro) in 2001 woth of taxes and it's been obfuscating (sp?) its accounting data since 1996.
there's a article (in French) on this here :
http://www.liberation.com/quotidien/debats/septem
Bazoungus.
(french and late at work)
That is, I'm sure france will do research into how many songs of what record companies are illegally copied, and distribute the fees accordingly. Free software companies (not just FSF, of course) should do simmilar research, and demand their share.
In Denmark we already got this "conviction and fine without due process"-tax on CD-R's ~50 cent, which goes directly to CopyDan, an organisation who proctects those "poor" artist who gets their stuff stolen, played or aired. CopyDan also gets money from cableTV-outlets, making artists getting paid... *twice*, once by the TV-stations, secondly by the consumers... *sigh*.
I plan to send a "bill" to the 179 members of Folketinget (parlament) everytime I take a backup of my system, burn an ISO of the latest Slackware etc.. I'd like to get my ~50 cents back for using the media legally, or if they think I'm breaking the law, charge me. I don't like to be punished for a crime I havn't committed.
... If every one did that... they'd be *spammed* to death.
Bjarne
Shouldn't they be taxing paper too, considering the amount of potential 'damage' in copying copyrighted print...
Yesterday the minister cancel her previous declarations, and said that there won't be any tax on computer and computer related media (Hard disk) , but it remains unclear if other media will be taxed (flash memory for MP3 player,and digital recorder devices) One thing is certain : I still have to pay this tax for author each time I buy a CDR to backup some of my own data !!
Maybe france should have put up a fight instead of surrenderring 10 minutes into the war. Maybe then yahoo wouldn't have to filter nazi war memorabilia because it upsets a few liberals who would like to forget the past.
Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
Whats wrong with the death penalty? How about I murder your family and spend the rest of my life in a cushy jail watching cable tv and working out in the weight room and using the library?
If they would think about the individual and not about the 'community' or 'group' it would be better. Why hold the electronics company responsible for the person who dumps a tv along side the road and contaminates the ground water? They should care less what you do with the tv after you buy it.
One thing that really disturbs me about england is the need for video cameras on every street corner and highway. Do they really need to monitor everyone constantly for illegal activity? If so then there is a deeper underlying social issue.
Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
Only one quote is fitting for this story.
"It is wrong to be french"
Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
i want to point out an error in your logic.
People do not get found *guilty* in civil suits.
does it really matter? Did you know what he was referring to? we speak ENGLISH. Everything is made up anyways. With the advent of the internet, and the adoption of all the slang, misspellings and emoticons and whatnot..the actual presentation of content no longer matters. IF IT GETS THE POINT ACROSS, WHATS THE FUCKING PROBLEM? Sure, there is always going to be the quality writing that is clear and concise, but when it comes to this nitpicky bullshit it does not matter. It does not lower the readability, it does not cause confusion. It just seems to provide fodder for jealous people like you who seem to need to complain about people doing what they like(Timothy), how they like it. You don't like it, why the fuck are you reading it? Complain complain complain about how unprofessional slashdot is. Whos the bigger fool? We all know the answer.
So...
Since I am a Canadian citizen, I am allowed to copy other people's CDs for my own use. Does that apply to things like Naspter as well? There are two computers involved in the copying, but I am the one who initiates the copy, not the person providing the music. (It's the same as my co-worker leaving his CD collection on his desk and saying "borrow whatever you like.")
This is actually very simple - the french have the PERFECT device for dealing with the kinds of corrupt politicians (redundant) that come up with laws like this - its time to dust of the guitiene (sp?). The rest is all in the sig: politician = lawyer
The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers. Shakespeare, Henry VI, Part 2, Act 4, Scene 2
This is not fair the illegal actions of a few are hurting the masses. Or even if the illegal actions of the masses are hurting the just few. They should try to enforce the laws, not raise taxes to fix the effects of broken laws.
I'm nervously awaiting the day they start taxing bandwidth to cover piracy, you know its coming.
Go green: turn off your refrigerator.
If we pay the tax, we won't have to listen to the RIAA and MPAA bitching about it anymore!
Actually, I think that's their conspiracy. They figure we'll just get so sick of hearing from them that we'll start willingly pelting money at them until they go away.
ah, there is some money to make there, let's make some...
Perhaps the French Government should instead sell insurance to recording corporations and artists "protecting" them from piracy. Not only does this levy the burden on the ones complaining, it also (hopefully) keeps the number of annoying boy/girl bands and po-gangsta-crappers down.
Geek Culture killed my dog/
and I don't think it's fair...
io hymen hymnaee io
io hymen hymnaee
The CD tax going to compensate the music companies for copying that may or may not be occurring is for the good of non-people. We are paying for the possible and potential. crimes of others. If we don't pay, nobody stands to get hurt; only a non-person (a music company) even has the potential to get hurt, though even that has not been proven. In fact, from what I hear, the copying actually helps sales in the long run.
So, there is a big difference between the CD tax and your examples.
Edward Burr
Edward Burr
Having a smoking section in a restaurant is like having a peeing section in a swimming pool.
Toll roads charge the tolls to pay back the loans (bonds) taken out to build the roads, and also to pay to maintain the roads. These roads were not (supposedly) built with our taxes. The roads that were built with our taxes are free to drive upon.
Edward Burr
Edward Burr
Having a smoking section in a restaurant is like having a peeing section in a swimming pool.
Here in Switzerland there is a tax on CDRs specifically for music. This means: you go to a hardware shop and can buy a CDR specifically for music (the best thing is they claim that the music quality will be better, as if the bits would care...) or regular CDRs. The only difference is that the music CDR is about 5 times as expensive and someone other than the manufacturer gets a very large share of the price.
Needless to say that you hardly find a lot of those CDRs.
You obviously have an amazing literary and technical background in making your definitive statement. However, having been around since before optical media was even a thought in someone's mind, the terms 'disc' and 'disk' were used interchangeably. (And at this point, it sounds like that's longer than you've been around as well.) I am guessing many will continue to use either 'disc' or 'disk' in various situations. Your doctoral dissertation obviously did not get into enough depth to make that discovery.
Constitutional is whatever the judges (or their wallets) want it to be.
But it doesn't mean you're legally exempt from paying tolls.
Care about freedom?
I'd rather be lucky than good.
I heard that with those (although I don't know who would buy one) you can switch the music CD with a regular CD after it does its check for a valid music CD.
But I think Karma whoring is a good thing as it brings more related information into the discussion. As a result i can find out more info if i want.
--- Can i borrow your Clue-Stick(tm)? I need to go beat a few people with it...
We've had this in Canada since last year, and it really hasn't made any difference. However, I think that the people that set the levy realised that corporations were only out to save themselves... or the people were vocal enough that the amount chosen was really small.
In any event, I would consider us lucky.
this story was posted weeks ago :P
the perfect world is a world without lag. a world without lag is a world without people
I am outraged by this stupid governmental meddling!
I live in France, and I am very annoyed et the thought of being burdened with this ridiculous tax.
I have a fair-sized CD collection, all of them originals, and I convert them to MP3 format so I can listen to tracks in any order, without having to change discs. I consider this to be my moral and legal right.
I will not pay a tax levied on hard drives. I make regular trips to the UK, I'll be going to the US in march, perhaps to Signapore next year. If the government decides to levy a tax on ordinary hard drives, I'll buy one overseas.
I'll just buy one out of principal.
I don't even have to make a long trip... Paris to London in 3 hours by train.
Belgium, Luxemburg, Spain (Andorra!) are within reach... The Channel Islands: part of the United Kingdom, but not part of the European Union... Those of us who have the opportunity, and are willing to make the effort, can get round this ridiculous tax.
The same goes for CD-Roms; if I buy a digital camera, I'll want to store the pictures somewhere, so I'll buy my blank CDs overseas, too.
A couple of weeks ago, I had a 35mm film developed, and I had the Kodak lab digitize the negatives and write the images to a CD. Will that be subject to this stupid tax, too? If Kodak has to stump up a 2F per disc tax, +19.6% VAT (sales tax) that makes about 2F40; I'll bet Kodak will pass on about a 5F surcharge, and blame the government.
They are not openly funded by corporations.
Try to catch up on recent politico-financial scandals over here; under-the-table, back-handers, Paris City Council RPR officials taking 1/2 million Francs in used notes (bills, in YankSpeak).
Oh, until recently, a large corporation could contribute to a party; i.e. set up several small subsidiaries, and get each subsidiary to give the maximum limit (I forget how much).
I was going to write a scathing attack on this comment but after reviewing the comments that follow it I can see that there is enough good wisdom left on this board to actually overcome the tyranny of the weak (minds).
If anyone knows of a decent word to use instead of capitalism then I would like to hear it, because there are too many kids who have read too much half-baked socialist propaganda while never taking the time to actually read, oh I don't know, Adam-freaking-Smith to actually understand what the term capitalism means historically, poilitically, and personally.
Corporations are socialist. Each corporation is defined by a corporate charter which is granted as sanction by the government, to act under a 'publicly' sanctioned purpose with special rights that don't naturally apply to groups of individuals. This is a command economy. Once the government sanctions the commerce that occurs in a nation, we have no truly free market, only the outside threat of one.
Taxation of blank media is the government abusing its monoploy on force for the interests of one segment of society over another, a segment that percieves a need which it asks to be subsidized. This is coercion, and in reality there is no objective difference between the 'need' of the RIAA and the 'need' of a lesbian artist applying for a grant.
When intelligent people talk about freedom, they mean freedom from coercion, not freedom to coerce - which incidentaly is what the original poster accuses corporations of doing but seeks to do himself.
Ugh, I'm obviously too tired and pissed off to go on. try to think before you moderate .
Metamuscle.com - News in the Iro
But if the money is going to the recording industry, how is it a tax?
IMHO, only the government can be the recipient of a tax. Otherwise it is a fee.
If it is anything like Canada, you pay the "tax" and get the right to copy music or whatever for your own personal use. I'm willing to pay it to know when I get stopped by a mountie with a 50cd stack of burned music on the road to Calgary that I won't be fined for it, I didn't do anything illegal!
God save our Queen, and Heaven bless The Maple Leaf Forever!
But you HAVE paid for the right to copy CDs. For you and for friends. You have paid all the royalties you owe, and it would never make it to court because you didn't do anything illegal. Look it up for yourself if you want.
God save our Queen, and Heaven bless The Maple Leaf Forever!
I sure as hell have a problem with my tax money going to fund a useless damn government administration department for the administering tax
Guess what?
This money collected does not go to the government. It is administered by, and goes straight into the pockets of, a private corporation. The Canadian Private Copying Collective[1][2] Here's the same info in French. Read the open letter (below). It explains the situation a lot better than I can. Here's the gist of it. Essentially they feel that the collection of a tax (oops, levy[4]) by a private entity is illegal. A stance that I do not disagree with.
Current levy rates (2001):
http://www.sycorp.com/levyinfo.htm
In a nutshell, CDR and CDR-W are now taxed at $.21 it was $.052 in 1999.
A very good open letter protesting the tax from the Independent Canadian Recording Media Coalition.
1. Like how they call themselves a collective. You will be assimilated. Fargin arsholes.[3]
2. The about page. Note the names and industries the founders belong to.
3. Also like the way the music and advertsing industries are on the exempt list(at bottom of page).
4. Sheila Copps[5] "This is not a tax. It's a levy".
5. Stunned bitch politician that has done more to harm Canada than any other scumbag politician.
-- Spammers: My E-mail server is in California. Consider yourself warned.
They'll just buy their blank CDs from stores in England.
Or, alternately, some enterprising individual could bomb France with leaflets containing a free blank recordable CD. That'd be fun.
The article paints this as a "leftest" goverment proposal. They have a quote from the right wing about taxes being the mother's milk of the left. Sounds like pretty much the standard rhetoric from the US Democrat/Republican sterotypes. I suspect this type of tax is much closer to Communism than Libertarianism.
Fuck them.
They are trying to infect the whole of Europe with their socialist bullshit. They can't compete so they fall back on taxation.
France is falling apart at the seams and this won't save them. They should just stick to making cheese and wine and just shut the fuck up.
Oh, and make their bitches shave their underarms.
-- You see, there would be these conclusions that you could jump to
it is really important? did you know, so that it returns? we speak English. All is cultivated the anyways. With the arrival of Internet and adoption whole Slang, does not import in one way or another the orthography of the errors and Emoticons and a true representation whatnot..the of the contents more. IF YOU C REACH C THE POINT WHICH C EAST A PROBLEM FUCKING? **time-out** surely, it have always a there the letter of quality which be clear and short, but, if one of come with this one nitpicky Bullshit, it import not. It does not lower lisiblement, not caused him disorders. It seems right, of fodder for jealous the people with the command to place to you who seem for you on training sad people to feel duty, which it like (Timothy), as they wants it. It, why they do not embrace it are you want him to him measured value him? The feeling which is sad for you, one complains one complains about the manner, in which it is slashdot unprofessional. Whos of larger imbecile? All we soap the answer.FUCKING PROBLEM?
-babelfish(French, English, German, French, English)
There are 1.1... kinds of people.
Why? Copying data CD's is illegal. Making a personal copy of an audio "musical work" is not. Maybe you didn't know that.
I'm sure I did, actually.
I think I'm underscoring the stupidity of the following situation: when I buy blank CD-Rs to make a backup of the contents of my hard disks, I'm paying to support the losses of the Canadian recording industry.
You see, I think that's unfair. And, because it's unfairness that has been ramrodded into place for dubious protectionist causes, it's also socialism doing what it does best.
It is a levy not a tax. None of the money goes to the government, it goes to the Canadian Private Copying Collective.Yes. The equivalent to a garnish on your paycheck, except imposed on the other side of the short cycle that money has in my possession.
Hell, let's get down to brass tacks. I don't copy music CDs. Especially not Canadian artists. Most of it is only slightly less lame than the average high school band. So why should I have to pay for "service charges" that the Collective forces on me, when, in fact, no services were rendered?
It's an erosion of my freedom. Because I work for my money, every percentage point of my income that is taken away for government programs that don't benefit me erodes my freedom. Money is merely a tangible approximation of time; money that is wasted by silly taxes (yes, and *levies*) is simply an indentured servitude.
It's less voluntary than being slave labor in a prison yard: at least the prisoner has chosen to have his time wasted when he committed his offense.
I hate Canada. At least these porkbelly projects represent a lesser percentage of the tax load in the United States.
(Every time I say that I hate Canada, I get moderated up, then one or two intelligent postings agreeing with me, and a flurry of "then move!" messages from basically illiterate Anonymous Cowards. Let's skip all the bullshit, okay? When I *do* take a position in the United States (and I'm marking off days on a calendar at this point), it will be Canada's loss. I am not coming back. There will be one less sucker sending more than 50% of his income to Ottawa so that it can be reappropriated to protectionist porkbellies like the CBC, the CRTC's Canadian Content monitoring, cash immigration bonuses to illiterate Bangladeshis while doctors from G7 countries are denied visas, and a government bureaucracy that is so heavily unionized that it has no hope of ever running efficiently.)
Also, are you implying that gambling is outlawed in Socialist Canada? Here in Ontario I can think of large Casinos in Orilla, Niagra Falls, Windsor, Sue-Saint Marie, and countless slots at all the race tracks..No, I didn't imply it. Re-read the posting. It was quite clearly an analogy of an equally stupid, hypocritical, and yet common, government position.
As a sidebar, I think gambling should be completely legal, with far less restrictions than it currently has. If people are stupid enough to throw away their paychecks on games of chance, let them. In nature, it's called survival of the fittest, and it seems to work pretty well.
Fire and Meat. Yummy.
Could a media tax be used as a justification for taking copyright material?
"I've already paid the tax on it, I may as well get a free copy of Metallica's greatest hits"
I could see this attitude in many peoples minds
If they are to use the same kind of practice as with the tapes, you could have thousands at home, and not be sued or anything. Depenalized, not Legalized.
And if this law is to pass the Parliement, I reckon they would give money to Celine Dion and Notre-Dame-de-Paris (aka "the French Plague"). That pisses me off.
No, the fact that he was found not guilty in a criminal court made his killings legal.
-- ShadyG
Nerd Rock In Progress
I pledge allegiance, to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands....
... one nation, under God...
If there is no god, does that mean we're not a nation?
....I wouldn't feel bad about copying CD's anymore...not that I feel bad about it now.
There is a war going on for your mind.
It's time to start hoarding cd-r's now? Hrm...guess I should take some cash and buy a few hundred blank cds from the local CompUSA.
Yet another brilliant move by the French government
I have too much Karma and no incentive to post Insightful comments. Moderators, you know what to do!
-atrowe: Card-carrying Mensa member. I have no toleranse for stupidity.
I hope it never goes this far. I mean, people have been arrested for having cigarette papers in their cars and were charged with possession of drug paraphernalia. Just imagine, CDRs will become piracy paraphernalia. If cigarette papers can be used to smoke pot then I guess CDRs can be used for piracy and therefore makes them illegal in a police state. What a mess we'd be in then!
Mini disc does not allow a full digital copy via the optical input.
Does it go on forever?
Blank Computer Media doesn't copy illegally, people do.
-----
"Almost isn't good enough - but it's almost good enough."
-----
"Almost isn't good enough - but it's almost good enough."
-Me
Not, it's Jean Consommateur
Jacques = Jack
Jean = Joe
Ni!
That's not really French. It's Babel-french. Even shit and bullshit remained in English...
If you understood French, you would see that most sentence make no sense. BTW, I'm French, but I do my best to post in correct English here (Yes, I know my spelling and grammar are not perfect, but at least I've tried).
Ni!
This tax already exists in Canada, but somehow I don't even notice the levy. Blank CDR Media is cheap enough that you don't really think about it. The tax was proposed over 2 years ago, then after being shot down a few times it finally came into effect last year.
So? Since when has the physical location of a website mattered? It has been argued countless times on slashdot that the internet is international, and should not conform to national law (see this discussion for example: http://slashdot.org/articles/00/11/20/1657238.shtm l), and now you come along and proclaim this to be a US site, just because you can't read french? How hypocrite can you get?
While it makes perfect business sense to maximize profits, it makes no sense to screw your customers.
I, for one, will stop using the internet, music, television, automobiles, or any other luxury that I use daily if it's unfairly taxed because a few people have circumvented having to pay for them.
Big business claims it's needed to make the company successful and allow further development of possible ways to deter criminals. First of all, it's at the consumers expense and we consumers have decided that this practice is ok. Remember that even the smartest logician can logically surmize almost anything.
Secondly, the deterance they develop are only ways to prevent fair use and true ownership of media.
CRAP!!!
I will not allow unfair taxation, price hikes, or hidden costs to affect my daily life. I can live without many of the luxuries I use. Can you?
Bottom line is I say we boycott the industry that demands unfair cooperation for consumers by giving up our rights. I will not liscence a VHS or DVD movie just to have that liscence agreement change and either I agree to the new terms or lose rights to what I have paid money to attain.
Then these companies want to assume no liabilities if I do not agree to the terms, in other words, they revoke my ability to use it but do not reimburse my money.
The EULA is the perfect business model. NOT!!! Not unless you are the EULA writer. IT essentially says you give up all rights in the court when you use this product and you really don't own it - you simply get to USE it until they decide you can't.
I dare a corporate business to release fully featured, bug free software, that does not require insane legalese to attain the use.
They can't and won't. Hypocrits. Talk about wanting to give me better service only to remove my humanity so that I don't care about better service.
Later.
... there is nothing that has not already been thought
"this is like taxing cars because some of them can be used as getaway vehicle in a bank robbery ;)"
Shhhhh! Quit giving them ideas.
Now: "C't Heise!"
"Ancillary does not mean you get to rule the world." --U.S. Circuit Judge Harry Edwards, speaking to the FCC's lawyer
Pledge of Allegiance:
I pledge allegiance, to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands....
Kierthos
Mr. Hu is not a ninja.
From the article;
First indications suggest that a hard disk could be taxed between 600 and 1,000 francs [$86-$144], while in Germany a hard disk is only taxed around 200 francs [$29]," said Richard Guyllorel, president of the electronic audiovisual union (SIMAVELEC).
If I had to pay that tax, it would make me pretty pissy.
Take the cheese to sickbay, the doctor should see it as soon as possible - B'Elanna Torres, "Learning Curve"
...the companies are.
This tax is collected by the music industry and they are responsible for its "distribution". The information on where this money goes is not public, it's the same kinda RIAA like body that collected the tax on tapes that manages all this.
And believe me, artists aren't getting a dime.
Vivende/canal plus The french now have 30% of all music distrobution and one of the largest movie companies in the world. Makes for one hell of a media company.
"Life is art...Paint your destiny"
"Homo sum: humani nil a me alienum puto"
(I am a man: nothing human is alien to me)
My only political goal is to see to it that no political party achieves its goals.
The objections there about the presumption of guilt sound the same as those in the French case. The tax has spawned widespread objection and significant protest, which led to the current postponement.
I also remember plans for a significant tax on blank CDR media in Canada, of about $2.50 per CD but that has been whittled down and has been around for a while at about $.14/disk, not too noticable I would think.
It's psychosomatic. You need a lobotomy. I'll get a saw.
The proposed tax also makes tonight's headlines (and 7 articles) in Paris' major daily Libération
Timeo idiotikOS et dona ferentes
If the government acknowledges that there is illegal activity going on and yet does nothing to stop it and instead simply taxes it, then it seems as if the government is almost condoning this type of activity (if I pay the task, I might as well get my money's worth) and this would make this type of activity all but legal.
Just my $.02
some kid
--------------------------------------- "No! Try not. Do. Or do not. There is no try." -Yoda ------------------------
That kind of logic doesn't apply in many companies. Take Iraq for example. Or maybe Iran. Israel, for crying out loud.
What's this Submit thingy do?
With many types of CD-R's, you can tell if they're blank or not. There's a sort of fuzzy appearance wherever there's writing.
So, as soon as someone figures out how to give this fuzzy appearance without making the thing unwritable...
What's this Submit thingy do?
OK...I've read through this entire set at +2, oldest-first, nested. I've got some sampling of what people are saying.
/.) to host campaigns etc. against policies most here either agree with or give lip service to. I suppose I'll start one right now.
I see bickering, complaining, whining, 'I-told-you-so'ing and (gasp) toleration of things in nations where lack of toleration made change! (No, I'm not racist, and I'm not advocating racism.)
Will somebody PLEASE get off their ass and actually do something about all of this? A while back I posted a comment on how special-interest groups are what cause politics to happen. I've seen several people offer (via
Here's what we need:
A People with money
B People with an understanding of politics
C People good at strategy
D People with time.
I don't have A, B, C, or D, but I'm sick of hearing about all of this crap. Let's get this together people! Once we've got enough money, political understanding, strategy and time, we can start changing things. Leave me a note in my email.
How far did the Oil companies get before the Sherman Antitrust Act was created? Whether or not we've already reached by that point, lets not let this get any further?
People keep complaining about how Microsoft has a monopoly. Has anyone compared RIAA/MPAA with monopolistic policies lately? The biggest difference I can see is that Microsoft doesn't flagrantly pay the government to see its way. Hm. Maybe they have some ethics after all.
What's this Submit thingy do?
I don't see that anyone has made a logic error here. The RIAA/MPAA wants money. That's all the logic necessary to explain much of this bull****.
What's this Submit thingy do?
Problems:
Acceptance of criminals: "pay this tax, just as if you are a criminal." It is ridiculous. Paying automobile insurance is one thing, because nobody never predicts to have an accident, different from taxing the people's deciding to do something illegal. Shit. Who will it help? Who is this supposed to profit? Artists? Bullshit again - they are already screwed, just as they always were, and will continue to be. Not that every musician is exploited, but a great number are, and they will not see one one hundredth of these profits.
Business model. To the core, the government is taxing a population in order to continue supporting an out-of-date business model. If true competition were present in industry, the companies would seek to rather improve their business plans rather than ask for handouts from the government. It is not my work to compensate for imbeciles of the failed management procedures: should stupidity be painful?
-Shoeboy (not so anonymously)
I adblock all animated gifs.
Blessed be the prime numbered slashdotters
Dammit, I hate being taken for a fool. Here I am, dutifully trying to provide a service, only to find that shoeboy has just posted a babelfished version of a previous post! My humble apologies to the readers, and a vengeful scowl on the prankster.
I adblock all animated gifs.
Blessed be the prime numbered slashdotters
Je ne le crois pas, et je n'en ai jamais dit parce que je ne suis pas américain. En générale je suis d'accord avec toi sur le système americain, mais le système français n'est plus mieux. Je n'ai aucun problème avec payer des impots pour donner de l'argent aux gens qui n'ont pas eu la meme chance que moi mais si tu regarde la disparité entre les salaires, bénéficies et retraites des employés du gouvernement en générale et celles des autres gens je crois que tu seras étonné(e). Finalement, pour un pays socialiste le système d'éducation universitaire est très élitiste: je suis un élève de l'Ecole Nationale Supérieure de Chmimie de Clermont-Ferrand, donc je connais le sujet dont je parle.
Donc, tu dois réflèchir un peu et peut etre lire ce que j'ai écrit avant que tu proposes des conneries.
Elgon
Elgon
Elgon
Yes, taxes that go for something which is of direct use of the product which is taxed (ie car tax pays for roads)
But are you really so naive as to think that every CDR sold is only used to copy music??
As is it, I'm now paying taxes on some media for which I use for my data backups, something not even close to anything remotely related to music.
This is the total opposite of what car taxes do for roads (ie. CDr taxes forces me to finance an industry with an outdated sales model, and that is incapable of adapting to the 21st century)
Seb
AC comments get piped to
So which recording artists is it that get the money? I have cut a CD with some friends, so I am a recording artist. Tracks from this CD have been uploaded to several sites on the Internet. So might I expect to see some money from the French Government then?
"Anybody remotely interesting is mad, in some way or another" - Doctor Who
Um, I believe I saw something similar to this posted on Slashdot or somewhere else in the recent past. It had to do with the German law that the /. post mentioned. Appartently, in Germany, they put a tax on media like this because it is LEGAL to make as many copies as you want of music or other content. Basically copyright as we know it in the US just doesn't exist over there, or it is in a much weaker form. The tax, as I understand it, is meant to compensate artists IN LEIU of copyright protection.
-white dwarf
I just bought zip drive the other day along with some zip disks made by Fuji. I don't know if it's the same for all brands of disks, but there was a small text file on each blank disk, talking about some of the things one could do with a zip disk.
Unless people fill up entire disks with 100MB's of garbage, I don't think 1K on a disk will cut it as "non-blank" media.
This may come as a shock to you, but music companies are made up of "people." While I do not agree with this tax, it does go to people in the form of wages and compensation.
There was a time when taxes were not viewed as punishment. This is a tax, not a fine, whether you, I, or the people of France like it.
Sorry, but it's just not that simple.
Music CD recorders require the use of blank "Music" CDRs. These CDRs are taxed to pay the RIAA for piracy (and contain something read by the recorder to identify it as being a Music CDR). What it really means is that the RIAA is raking in a bunch of money for what the courts have deemed "fair use."
If that's the case, that has to extend to data CDs, too.
Why? Copying data CD's is illegal. Making a personal copy of an audio "musical work" is not. Maybe you didn't know that.
A copyright tax on blank media is merely a way that the government can legalize piracy as long as they get the proceeds. Like a lottery is a way that the government can legalize gambling as long as they get the cash.
It is a levy not a tax. None of the money goes to the government, it goes to the Canadian Private Copying Collective. Also, are you implying that gambling is outlawed in Socialist Canada? Here in Ontario I can think of large Casinos in Orilla, Niagra Falls, Windsor, Sue-Saint Marie, and countless slots at all the race tracks..
Now, if the socialists hadn't taxed blank media, then a pirate couldn't argue that he'd paid his royalties, and therefore copyright law would remain fully enforceable.
"In 1997 the Canadian Copyright Act was amended to allow individuals to make copies of sound recordings for private use. Prior to the passage of the amendments it was an infringement of copyright to make such copies.
When legal protection was removed, the Act provided rightsholders with compensation in the form of a levy on blank audio recording media." --From the CPCC website.
FWIW, the person you quoted yourself was wrong in that you can't make copies for your friends, you can only let them borrow the disc to make the copy themself.
Actually, I would say that this law is quite a bit closer to socialism than it is to capitalism. The government is deciding that the artists aren't getting what they deserve and are using tax money to support the industry, instead of letting them get by on their own merits. The government is in fact protecting them from the realities of the market place by subsidizing their work. I really can't seen how communism or socialism would change this situation one bit - you seem to have this same odd idea that a lot of socialist thinkers do - that under a socialist system powerful people and powerful groups will quit looking out for their own interest and the expense of the people. It's not true. The government works for the powerful more than the average joe under any system - this is pretty much the definition of "powerful". Socialism just makes that government more powerful. At least under capitalism we have business and government interests seperated and working against each other some of the time.
Why?
Yeah. I'll bet there'll be a whole new blackmarket for media. $144 is enough to buy a 40gb hardrive! jeeze. I remember when canada banned Digital Satalite Systems. It was easy to pack up a van with a dozen 12" dishes and drive accross the border, and make a bundle. They relaxed the law now...but hey. Next time I vacation in France I'll be sure to bring in some maxtor 80s!
Maskirovka
Stupid friggin' backward socialists. Probably can't even code BASIC
It's true that O.J. compensating the famiuly didn't make the killings legal. However if it was the case that somebody else hadf killed these people then it would hardly be fair to punish him for the actions of somebodey else. Whilst somebody punished for a murder commited by somebodt else would not be entitled to then go and kill somebody surely they would deserve some form of compensation for the punishment.
It could be worse, Bols, you could have read in their article, something like:
(Assuming they can't tell truth from fiction, and don't finish what they're reading, which wouldn't surprise me). MichaelPerhaps, there should be a sweeping car tax to help the victims of drunk driving. After all, any one of us could be, and probably are, using our vehicles to mow down unassuming pedestrians.
We could charge an extra tax on all kitchen knives to compensate the victims that are stabbed? Nothing is stopping any of us from mutilating someone with our cookware.
Let's not leave out the ultimate evil... stamps. Right now, someone is buying stamps with the intention of sending a letter bomb. We all must band together and give a portion to help the Unabomber's victims.
What's fun with this law is that there was a talk between the guys who wanted cd's to be taxed and the guys that were supposed to protect consumers. The problem is those were taken from right wing activists (such as 'famille de france', christians activists) and feminists .....
Now let's see what the law is, there is a tax on cdr and dvd, based on the recording time and the kind of data (yes, if you say you bought an audio cd-r, you'll pay more than a data cd-r !!!!).
And of course the money goes to the record industry, while it's only 15% of the piracy (you can buy a lot of cd's instead of a copy of photoshop 6) .....
Blah!
Eh ben là, ça, au moins c'est couillu !
/dev/null
Poster en français sur Slashdot et être modéré +2, ça m'épâte !
Après Slashdot, voici Traitpoint...
# cat slashdot | babelfish -i en -o fr >
I find Communism appealing towards the end of a Civ2 game, when I go on tank/howitzer rushing blitzes. keep the people happy while cranking out the armor!
(the preceding message ironically typed on a capitalist-created computer)
The upshot of this is that, in my non-accredited opinion, you could indeed make a valid legal case that since you were being required to pay a tax on this activity that constituted a tacit acknowledgement by the government authorities of that activity's legality. Now the judge probably wouldn't suddenly tell you copyright infringement is legal, but he might have a problem with the legitimacy of the tax, particularly if it was actually going to compensate the copyright holders. You can't bill somebody for something you're not giving them...
OK.. There is the point about thoses taxes:
1- we already have a 19.6% VAT tax on CDs, DVDs, Computers and so on, so as a result, with those taxes, we'll end having the most taxed high-tech industry in the world. Thanx...
2- those new taxes products goes to SACEM in fact, which is supposed to redistribute to artists (and producers). in fact, i've some friends that are so-called artists, and they see barely nothing. The whole profit is for artists that sell more disks, which means usually the bad ones (good artists and popular artists are rarely the same ones). This tax is more for the big producers as a result.
3- i still don't understand why i should be taxed if i install a server running linux. I think this law is against the french Constitution, and i think it'll be rejected by the Constitutional Council.
4- instead of caring about that useless stuff and making other silly laws, they'd better care about real problems, those stupid guys we've elected.
but hey ! other have elected G W Bush...
It seems to me that half the articles on Slashdot these days are about things related to copyright, IP, patents, the DMCA, etc. The conclusion I reach regarding all this is that we're moving into an era where corporations are trying to get almost complete control of our society. And the amazing thing is that people are letting them get away with it Now, before you say that there isn't anything we can do, I'll tell you that you're wrong. Yes, corporations control the mass media, and most politicians are in their back pockets, but the ultimate power still lies at the ballot box. Governments can be changed if enough people want it to happen. And we're all sitting here with the most powerful media right at our fingertips: the Internet. One of the biggest reasons the Net gets kicked in the head so much by politicians is that they don't see its users as a potent political force. At the present time, politicians by and large view the Internet as either a big gimmick to hold up to the media when they want to appear "high-tech" or a scapegoat to kick around when they need a convenient cause for some complex social problem. The day that Internet users flex their collective political muscles, that will change. The main problem here, as I see it, is that getting Net users to agree on anything is a lot like herding cats. (I've never tried herding cats, but I've always wanted to.) We're a diverse group, and we have a hard time agreeing on anything. A few years ago, it was a little easier to reach a consensus because there weren't as many people online, and they came from somewhat similar backgrounds. Now, the Net has gone "mainstream", and you see more and more people online whose sole purpose for being there is to visit big corporate Web sites. They wouldn't have been nearly as passionate in opposing things like the CDA, Clipper chip, and other similar things, partially because they'd be less likely to even find out about them. Having said that, I still think we need to try. What exactly we would try, I don't know, but our society seems to be at an all-time low point in political activism, and we need to change that. Any democratic society moves in the direction that its most active participants want it to move in. Notice that I didn't say "the majority of the population." No, if you want something to happen, you have to participate, and the only ones participating right now are major corporations. Say what you will about corps having undue political influence, but the sole reason they do is because they're involved in the process to a degree that no one else is. Many people say that they don't care about the political process because they don't see any politicians offering them something they're interested in, but you can be sure that this would change if a large group of people who vote starts making noise. Why do you think Social Security is such a big deal? Because senior citizens vote, and any politicians with two brain cells to rub together knows that he ignores that issue at his peril. Any group can get politicians to do its bidding, provided it is organized and politically active. Anyone care to make any contributions as to how to get Internet users organized and politically active? Anyone want to take a stab at doing it? It's going to have to get done sooner or later, and now is about as good a time as any.
That light you see at the end of the tunnel might be from an oncoming train.
I purchased a bunch of CDs at a store in Toronto called Factory Direct. $30 for 100 74Min CD-Rs. The owner had a sign up with the government document posted and the tax highlighted. If memory serves it was only 16 cents. Funny thing is, the price of CDRs at CostCo hasn't changed at all.
Brad
Canada has also started taxing CDR media (for real this time) as of Jan 01/01. The tax isn't too bad, only $0.16 CAN per cd. I don't honestly see how this tax will help the recording artists. The loyal fans buy the cds and go see them in concerts. Radio stations play the music and the artists get money every time the song is played. Maybe I would be more sympathetic if concerts weren't so expensive ($135 + Ticketmaster service charges for the upcoming U2 show... but I doubt they get any of the tax money). I'm all for Canadian music, but I wonder how much of it the artists really see. The Canadian government REALLY loves their tax money.
Brad
Bottom line? No internal customs duties in the EU, therefor any unilateral tax won't work. And if the try to put a customs tax on importing them from within the EU? Prodi and his boys will kick their ass faster then you can say "vive la revolution."
Cue The Sun...
...it's a republic.
Cue The Sun...
Already done. There are CD-R's with a copy protection bit turned on. These work in the music CD-R writers. These are stand-alone CD-R writers expressly made for composing music. The cost of this "special" CD-R media has always been many times the "computer" CD-R media. So if you want to write your own music, go out and buy a $2000 music CD-R writer and pay through the nose for blanks. It is about as popular as DAT tape.
Oh, so it did start here in Germany ... well, sure as hell didn't notice a big increase in CD-R(W) prices ... well, maybe the taxes for these aren't active yet ... I guess I'll just have to buy alot now ...
Nur die Harten kommen in den Garten
It's not the Capitalist Bastards fucking us. It's the Socailist Bastards who rely on government for everything who are doing this.
When does this happen in the movie?
All they need to do is mail order the CD's from england. Eu sales taxes are enforced the oposite way around to American ones. Tax is paid in the country the product is shipped from not the one the consumer lives in. As long as they are not ordering vast quantities with intent to resell they will only get charged at the english rate.
A sysadmin strike would probably be vastly more crippleing and effective than a bunch of farmers throwing live sheep into a mcdonalds shouting "rosbif scum".
Go and live in one of the Revolution paradises for a couple of years (Cuba, Vietnam, North Corea, even China, but quickly, before they dismantle the paradise because it seems like it does not work).
Then say something critical about the goverments there (no, wait, they are perfect, nothing to criticize).
Then you do come back and repeat the same discourse.
Oh sorry, I forgot that those things about Stalin murdering who knows how many millions are propaganda.
I guess Stalin would have loved the Internet and promoted the freedom of expression it brings with it. Like , er..., China?
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
I would be much less opposed to this sort of payment model for the arts if I thought more of the money would actually end up in artist's pockets. As it stands, it seems that publishers/recording industry types own the artistic rights to much of the available works. Any ideas on how these taxes are distributed in Germany, France, US, etc.? That would go a long way towards determining whether this is fair for consumer, artist, and citizen.
This sig may be reproduced by anyone for any reason.
Heh, that's an interesting point that I hadn't thought of. Artist's having to pay an art tax on media to make art. Ooohhhh... the irony is killing me. Tsk, Tsk, the RIAA has found a way to enrich itself not only at the expense of the pirates, traders, and everyone else that uses blank media for any purpose whatsoever, but also in one fell swoop has added an additional hurdle to any competition from independent artists or labels. That's just sweet.
This sig may be reproduced by anyone for any reason.
I would imagine the French law will follow this model.
Line 9: Argument of type SIGNATURE expected.
Ok, we have to pay to artists, because their work is copied - BUT WAIT istnt copying already illegal? When I pay money, because I copy mp3s to my harddrive, then it becomes legal - or? Secondly, I also put pictures and texts on the web - since you all can copy it to your computer - I should get money! Where can I get it from?
Translation for the French-impaired, with my notes in italics:
Comment:This seems to be a publicity stunt from Mrs Tasca, who used to be Television commissionner, and thus more receptive to the arguments of producers, specially since in France the ministry of Culture (note the capital C) is hostage to well-organized special interest groups of publicly subsidized artists.
- A.P.
--
* CmdrTaco is an idiot.
"Remember when the U.S. had a drug problem, and then we declared a War On Drugs, and now you can't buy drugs anymore?"
I've decided that discussion between people with extremely different viewpoints (Communism is obviously stupid vs. Communism is the way to solve our problems) will degenerate into some form of the above because neither party shares the other's assumptions. The assumptions are seldom acknowledged in the debate, and neither side intends to change their assumptions, so pretty soon they accuse each other of being "closed-minded."
Some people try to argue from (mostly) commonly held assumptions, but that results in giant philisophical treatises that justify some complex world view using a bunch of specious reasoning and verbal smoke-and-mirrors. In reality, the author has already assumed the end in mind and is just playing connect-the-dots to lead you to it. (Not that this is a bad thing. Mathematicians do it all the time. The difference is that math is done in rigorous framework, allowing the "connect-the-dots" steps to be checked for validity. However, there is no rigorous framework that can be used to prove the nature of man, so you have to make a bunch of unprovable, though perhaps probable, assertions.)
You just don't get it, do you?
disk is short for diskette, which is the traditional name for what are now called floppy disks.
Phillips own the trademark for "Compact Disc"s, and that's how they choose to spell it.
I imagine discus beats both roots. My dictionary shows it as having an oldest known use in 1656.
Frankly I hadn't really noticed the difference and I just switched over to disc because I like how it looks.
IMO, to assign a definitive differentiation is rediculous.
Definitive answer!
"Alternative spelling of disk . Disc is often used for optical discs, while disk generally refers to magnetic discs, but there is no real rule."
What part of "there is no real rule" makes it definitive?
Of course this is all moot anyways, all my MiniDiscs have exactly that spelling: MiniDisc.
The U.S. has already had this type of legislation in effect for years.
It's true that there's a tax like this on audio-grade DAT tapes. But the tax currently does not apply to any other storage media, including computer-grade DAT tapes.
This legislation, by contrast, appears to affect all storage media. And while even just doing this to DAT tapes is a great shame, taxing all media is a totally different -and even worse- beast.
----------
You missed out brains. I've got loads of tunes and pictures in my head, which is clearly theft. $1,000 per cubic inch sounds about fair to me.
I wrote a fake news story last year about exactly this kind of thing, except I set it in the U.S.
Anyone else feeling as powerless as I am right now?
Schwab
Editor, A1-AAA AmeriCaptions
Logical? Pah!
I got no problem paying a tax on pirating CDs, but I sure as hell have a problem with my tax money going to fund a useless damn government administration department for the administering tax, going to fund a useless damn recording industry department for doling out what pittance is left over, and going to fund that goddamn Celine Dion who's going to get whatever few pennies remain.
--
--
Don't like it? Respond with words, not karma.
Just figure it's worth pointing out that the tax is going to pay for, in *this* order:
-- a new government office that is responsible for administering the tax.
and
-- a new RIAA office that is responsible for distributing the money that's left over.
*If* there is any money left after RIAA processes it, the money goes to artists in proportion to their sales.
--
--
Don't like it? Respond with words, not karma.
I consider this strategy a lot more sensible and less limiting to freedom than the outright ban on technologies, or the attempts by corporations to push hardware standards that make copying impossible, or the wholesale lawsuits against Napster and the people who use it. Adding a small fee to products in order to compensate artists is a small price to pay for the freedom to be able to listen to, look at and share the content we want to.
Hey why should the media producers be the ones who bear the burden?
How 'bout pencil manufacturers?
How 'bout all those photocopy machines?
And don't get me started in on those printers...
MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
1. How is this money being distributed? As a musician-- well, a guy who's about to go buy a microphone and casio for this very reason-- I'd like to know where I collect my check, as my alleged music is going to allegedly be pirated.
2. I hope they start taxing oil-based paint too. Because I read somewhere that art thieves are pirating portraits as well. Not to mention that ink and paper needs to be taxed, seeing as how it's used not only for plagerism but for counterfeiting *AND* writing unAmerican articles.
W
-------------------
-------------------
This is my SIG. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
A BIG case of short sightness on the part of the french was that the guns on the Maginot line couldn't be turned around. After all, they never thought that they'd get attacked FROM french soil. The germans flanked them.
LK
"Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
You raise several interesting points. There has been some speculation that some military higher ups may have known that the attack on Pearl Harbor was coming, that's why so much of the fleet was out at sea. But that's neither here nor there.
If the guns on the Maginot line has been about to turn 360 degrees and (very important) the Germans didn't know that they could, it would have changed much about the invasion of France. The germans would have most likely taken the country anyway, but they would have incurred much heavier losses in the process.
LK
"Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
It will soon be legal to copy music digital in Denmark, it isn't right now. That also includes Minidisc.
:-(
Because if this, Copydan will begin to put about half a dollar on each blank media! They are also talking about CD-burners, etc.!
They say it is because the artists should be compensated, which I is kind of fair.
This is just not the right way to do it - it is the easy way. On blank cassette tapes it was alright because they couldn't be used for much else than music, but CD's is used for a lot else. How many CD's gets burned with free software, for backup - everything but music? A lot - why should the artists get money for that? It simply doesn't make sense
Greetings Joergen
I want to say up-front that I do not believe that blank media should be taxed. I want to point out the error in your logic.
The key-word in this taxation is compensation (or, whatever that is in French!). This is compensation in the legal sense. This is not the type of type of, "I compensate you for your services or product," type of compensation; it is the you have done wrong upon me under the law and now you must pay me for it.
When O.J. was found guilty in the civil lawsuit put forth against him for killing two people he was forced to compensate the Goldman family. The fact that he compensated them did not make his killings legal.
-AP
Problèmes: Acceptation de criminel: " payez cet impôt, juste au cas où vous seriez un criminel. " C'est ridicule. Le paiement de l'assurance auto est une chose, parce que personne ne projette jamais avoir un accident, mais impôt des personnes juste au cas où elles décideraient de faire quelque chose de illégal. Shit. Qui volonté il aide? Qui est ceci censé pour bénéficier? Les artistes? Bullshit encore - ils obtiennent déjà vissés, juste comme ils ont toujours été, et continueront à être. Pas que chaque musicien est exploité, mais un grand nombre soyez, et ils ne verront pas un cent de ceci. Modèle d'affaires. Au noyau, c'est des impôts de prélèvement de gouvernement sur une population à étayer vers le haut d'un modèle périmé d'affaires. Si la vraie concurrence étaient présente dans l'industrie, les compagnies rechercheraient à améliorer leurs plans d'affaires plutôt que demandent le gouvernement une aumône. Il n'est pas mon travail de compenser des imbéciles des procédures de gestion échouées: la stupidité devrait être douloureuse.
--Shoeboy
I wonder how long before blank paper is taxed; after all, you could copy a book onto it...
-jon
Remember Amalek.
Whatever happened to the good old French policy of striking whenever something you didn't agree with was imposed?
I mean if duck hunters can go on strike (Good for the ducks I guess) because of losing some ancestral hunting rights, why shouldn't there be an even bigger response to this sort of nonsense?
Hmmm. Interesting, but I believe it is you who have made the logic error...
If this is the type of compensation that is "because you have done wrong upon me under the law", as you put it, then shouldn't they have to prove that I did do wrong upon them under the law? Just as OJ was found guilty in the civil case, and had to pay compensation, shouldn't they have to find me guilty before I pay?
But with this kind of compensation, they don't have to prove that. If they could, they would just charge me with copyright violation. Instead, they charge everyone.
Therefore I restate my belief that this "compensation" should be regarded the payment kind of compensation that gives me the right to copy their material.
Torrey Hoffman (Azog)
Torrey Hoffman (Azog)
"HTML needs a rant tag" - Alan Cox
"State owned business (no monopolies screwing us)"
Uh .. a state-owned business IS a big monopoly that screws you. Ask South Africans about Telkom .. (no longer state-owned, technically, but still a government protected monopoly under a communist-like scheme ..) .. there is NO incentive for state-owned companies to improve their products and services, so the best affordable connection you can get here happens to be a 56k modem.
Better yet, ask somebody living under a truly Communist government (rather than a pseudo-communist government that pretends to be capitalist like ours) how good the services are. (Regulated) capitalism still wins, hands down, even though it sucks so much. The least-bad of all alternatives, it would seem. The problem with USA capitalism, it seems, is that the government is a pawn of big business, and its supposed to be a pawn of the people. But that does not mean that capitalism is at fault - it just means that americans should try to keep tighter reins on the government. With things like DMCA, I get the impression that the people have not too much control currently over what the government does.
I guess Communism is beginning to look alot more appealing, eh?
Nope, just the Western governments are coming closer to what Eastern European governments were doing for 50 years - meddling in economic affairs, which should be left to the market, limiting privacy, and trying to exercise micro-control over society. Therefore, communism is just as unappealing to the thinking individual as before.
In addition, your stupid remarks are offensive to those who have suffered because of the sick ideology that is communism, and to the memory of the tens of millions killed in its name.
The difference between Capitalism and Socialism is that Capitalism allows you to choose which bastards fuck you over. With socialism, it's always the government screwing you.
As we all know, the government doesn't do anything well, so being screwed by them is like bad sex with the same partner for your whole life... Capitalism at least allows you to try some different partners and positions for being fucked over.
The government collecting taxes to build roads implies that you can drive on the roads.
How we know is more important than what we know.
So, if you're able to call the current media business model painfully stupid, what do you in your non-painful and non-stupid ways suggest?
And to think most governments are missing out on all these...
And the brethren went away edified.
Is a Government bought and sold to/by TransNational Corporate interest not enough?
:o) would get much more money than he does right now. Why do you think the Green Party is a government party in France and Germany ?
/. reader would probably beg to differ :o).
In France, political parties cannot be funded by corporations.
Although individuals can make private donations (no more than FF 50000, ie approximately $8000), the main source of financial support for political organizations is the State. Each party receives an amount of money which is calculated according to its scores in previous elections.
This may seem somewhat unfair towards small parties, but under such a system, Ralph Nader (randomly chosen example of course
However, this kind of law could probably not be passed in the US. The ability of a party to collect funds is seen as a strong indicator of its popularity (ie representativity), and therefore as an essential aspect of the democratic mechanism. Suppressing corporate funding would probably cause strong opposition, not only from coporate powers, but also from the public at large (although most
Thomas Miconi
Firstly, Isn't the whole "Innocent until proven guilty" thing built into the US constitution? The way this law punishes all for the crimes of the few makes me sick to my stomach. If they ever try for this in the UK I for one will kick up a stink.
Secondly, What about software piracy? It's my observation that much more piracy happens to software than to music, this leaves the stink of powerful lobbying rather than thoughtful government.
Have you ever bought a blank cassette tape or VHS tape in the US. Then guess what... part of your money went to the RIAA or MPAA. We *already* do this in the US. The only difference is that we're not taxing computer media, yet.
Unix is user friendly, it's just selective about who its friends are.
I wonder if it is cheaper for them to order CD-Rs and the like from US or other "non EU" countries. With every one talking about the global economy, wouldn't be neat to see a benefeit. Your govt. passes a law that makes things you want more expensive, you goto your on-line browser and BANG! 35 cents a CD-R. By a bunch and sell them to your friends :)
"Science is about ego as much as it is about discovery and truth " - I said it, so sue me.
hehe. yeah. communism rocks.
look how good russia turned out. oh wait....
FluX
After 16 years, MTV has finally completed its deevolution into the shiny things network
"It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once." -David Hume
mmmmmmmmm. i love fuzzy logic.
A) thing A sucks so bad, there's really no denying it (i.e. Russia's economic and social infrastructure).
B) person 1 comes along saying A doesn't really suck and that anyone saying A sucks is brainwashed.
C) person 2 comes along and says that A does, in fact, suck.
D) person 1 gets to show how quick-witted and intelligent he is by saying something to the effect of "you see! you've been brainwashed into thinking thing A sucks"
i suppose the fact that i believe anything proves that i've been brainwashed into believing it.
FluX
After 16 years, MTV has finally completed its deevolution into the shiny things network
"It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once." -David Hume
That might be a defense to the RIAA and MPAA doing similar in the USA. File a lawsuit for refunds of the taxes for non-infringing uses.
Fight Spammers!
Please stay polite, and don't spam it, it will be much more effective that way.
Madame la minstre Tasca can be joined via http://www.culture.fr/culture/comment-ministre.htm
Le premier ministre Jospin can be reached at mailto:premier-ministre@premier-ministre.gouv.fr . As there are 3 elections in the next 18 month, telling him the opinion you have on the issue and how it will impact you vote can be pretty effective.
Resistance (which is not futile) is at www.vachealait.com
If you know other resources, please reply. I don't want SONY/EMI/VIVENDI etc, getting money each time I burn a FreeBSD CD
Thanks.
Cheers,
--fred
Quand j'entend le mot "culture" je sort mon portefeuille.
1 reply beneath your current threshold.
talented Canadian musicians - who will prosper on their own without government help - promptly pick up and move to greener pastures in the United States. ... Paul Anka?)
(See Alanis Morrissette, The Barenaked Ladies, Crash Test Dummies, Big Sugar, Maestro Fres Wes, SoulDecision, Choclair, Celine Dion, Sloan,
Wow! Are you saying that if we put this tax into effect in the U.S., we might be able to drive Celine Dion back whence she came? That's the most convincing argument I've heard yet in favor!
If we made the tax really really high, could we pass back the boy bands?
Note: I am trying to be as neutral as possible here with my opinions on MP3s, consumer v. artist rights, etc. It might sound like I'm not, but I'm just trying to make a point here.
Now that I've got that out of the way, does this mean that while it is not okay for fans to "steal" from artists, it is okay for artists to do the same from fans? Look at it this way -- in this situation, the artists are obviously taking what is more or less an arbitrary amount of money (value, if you will) from the fans here. So how then do they [the artists who are against MP3 trading, and the RIAA in general] justify their stances *against* MP3 trading, music copying, etc.? By doing this, they are implying that while it is not okay for fans to "steal," it *is* okay for them to do the same.
Is it just me or do 'taxes' like this seem to be a little on the hypocritical side?
---
Check in...OK! Check out...OK!
I pledge allegiance to the flag...
of the Corporate States of America...
I believe it fell through when it was realised that it was unworkable, as there was no idea how the money raised could be broken down, with the only guideline being the way PRS royalties were divided. The general consensus would that it would make people like McCartney even richer, whilst the struggling small acts wouldn't earn anything.
Is this actually legal under EU law?
Depending on the criteria you need to meet to get a slice of that media-tax pie, it does seem like the state is subsidising an industry. My understanding is that appeals to the WTO don't cost anything, so it could make for some useful publicity (even if the WTO will almost certainly ignore it as a joke, and instead concentrate on trying to strip some other country of its environmental standards :-)
Dont you know ? You only license music nowadays.
Until your licensed recording magically turns into a product
The magic moment is when a new super-mega-hifi-monster recording media (according to press releases by the RIAA) appears on the market and you go to a store and you intend to upgrade your licensed media for a buck or two.
But fear not: The world is so full a magic.
Because the moment you leave the store your proudly purchased product magically turns into a license
You may want to refer to a good dictionary under extortion, greed or racket.
No need to thank me.
ich bin der musikant
mit taschenrechner in der hand
kraftwerk
Do you have any further information on this?
spent 17 years under socialism
And somehow these Capatalist Bastards are not fucking you?
It was this law professor who has a long history of dealing with IT who responded to protests with something like "if we don't do this, you'll see content protection schemes instead, they are a lot more evil, and you don't want that, so shut up and let this pass!"
He is of course right in that corps will be pushing content protection very hard, and I'd rather throw them a bone than have them do it.
My main problem with this is that it is going to put research on different ways of paying artists to sleep, and therefore slow down progress. This professor isn't really very visionary, he can only see two options, and seems unwilling to realize that there may be more options ahead.
Clearly, the model is to refund those who produce content. However everyone produce content these days, and consequently everyone should get a refund. My vote is against this scheme if I can't get my tax money back when I burn my thesis to a CD.
Employee of Inrupt, Project Release Manager and Community Manager for Solid
We've had this in Canada since last year, and it really hasn't made any difference.
Heh. Yeah, right. Tell that to Sheila Copps, the bitch who helped to put it in place. It's to help more inept musicians saturate Canada's airwaves, while talented Canadian musicians - who will prosper on their own without government help - promptly pick up and move to greener pastures in the United States.
(See Alanis Morrissette, The Barenaked Ladies, Crash Test Dummies, Big Sugar, Maestro Fres Wes, SoulDecision, Choclair, Celine Dion, Sloan, ... Paul Anka?)
Meanwhile, it's yet another tax to help to "level the playing field" so that the untalented can saturate our airwaves. To, effectively, make up for the lesser talent and ability of, for example, The Tragically Hip.
I hope Sheila Copps gets inoperable colon cancer.
However, I think that the people that set the levy realised that corporations were only out to save themselves... or the people were vocal enough that the amount chosen was really small.If I'm paying a tax that is auspiciously because I'm going to illegally copy something anyway, haven't I then paid for the right to copy it? Haven't I now paid the royalties that I owe, in order to make all the guilt-free CDs, for me and my friends, that I want to make? I think that could be a very interesting court challenge.
In any event, I would consider us lucky.Oh yeah. Any luckier, and the Sunday afternoon tradition in Canada will be cutting up last week's Pravda for toilet paper.
Fire and Meat. Yummy.
But you HAVE paid for the right to copy CDs. For you and for friends. You have paid all the royalties you owe, and it would never make it to court because you didn't do anything illegal. Look it up for yourself if you want.
If that's the case, that has to extend to data CDs, too.
Which means that *if* I happen to have installed Windows 2000 on this computer, and *if* I did it only because I need to learn it so I can support it at work, and *if* it happens to be installed from a CD copy that was made on a disc that was covered under the media tax, *then* I should have no issues.
I'm not saying I've done that, I'm only citing this as yet another protectionist and socialist scheme which has backfired. Because, of course, the government taxes blank media since the royalties aren't going to artists. However, it also becomes a tacit encouragement to make illegal copies. This is as hypocritical as a government that outlaws gambling yet still runs a state lottery.
Gee, if I were an artist, I'd be sooooo glad that those wonderfully consequence-thinking socialists were looking out for me.
A copyright tax on blank media is merely a way that the government can legalize piracy as long as they get the proceeds. Like a lottery is a way that the government can legalize gambling as long as they get the cash.
Now, if the socialists hadn't taxed blank media, then a pirate couldn't argue that he'd paid his royalties, and therefore copyright law would remain fully enforceable.
(For the record, my employer provided me with my copy of Windows 2000 Professional. But the example still holds.)
Yup, I've got the scissors all sharpened up for Sunday afternoon's Pravda-shredding. As any pre-democracy Russian will tell you, the Wednesday edition of Pravda makes the best toilet paper. I don't know why, but when I use it to wipe, it's almost as cottony soft as Lenin's beard.
Fire and Meat. Yummy.
Agreed. While the k-whore itself may just be pandering to the tastes of the *average* moderator, the replies a typical k-whore generates can (and do) spark meaningful conversation, which is becoming quite a rarity on this site.
-atrowe: Card-carrying Mensa member. I have no toleranse for stupidity.
I appreciate your suggestion, kind sir, but I must respectfully decline. Not only am I trying to burn excess karma, but I would like to make the point that the Karma cap does nothing but promote trolling and crapflooding on this site.
-atrowe: Card-carrying Mensa member. I have no toleranse for stupidity.
Definitive answer!
-atrowe: Card-carrying Mensa member. I have no toleranse for stupidity.
Go to staples/compUSA/best buy or whatever office supply store is near you and look at the CD-R's. Look at the video games, and look at the audio CD's. They all say compact disc. Now do the same for the floppys/zip disks, superdisks. They all say disk. It's industry standard.
-atrowe: Card-carrying Mensa member. I have no toleranse for stupidity.
How do they plan on acurately figuring-out what artists get what?
And if they do, will Jerry Lewis become richer than Bill Gates?
-artistX
You just don't get it, do you?
Does my bum look big in this?
If I recall correctly, the French heavily fortified the border with Germany, but the Germans went through Belgium, again (apparently Belgium is a road). Whoever decided not to fortify the border with Belgium was as much of a twit as Petain was. Though, if the border with Belgium was fortified, the Germans probably would have attacked somewhere else, or attacked by sea or something.
"Homo sum: humani nil a me alienum puto"
(I am a man: nothing human is alien to me)
My only political goal is to see to it that no political party achieves its goals.
Maybe I'm just a little too leftist but I'll take taxes over lawsuits anyday.
Of course like too many liberals I may be naive in my thinking that any of this money will actually go to the intended recipients.....
In fact, that has been a common practice for tapes in Europe for decades. And it should work even better for CD-RWs.
Socialism cannot work, because it lacks an information feedback mechnism. Since humans fallible and are not omniscient, it means that resources not only will not, but cannot be assigned to each part of the economy according to its need.
The profit mechanism, while imperfect, is the best such feedback mechanism ever developed to correct the inevitable miscalculations, producing a constant but lower level of wastage than either central planning or decentralized socialism can achieve.
If you have an allocation and information mechanism that works better and can be used in a socialist system, I suggest you send it to the surviving socialist government of your choice immediately. In twenty years that country's people will be the wealthiest on Earth, as its economy will be the most efficient on Earth.
There's no "we" in team, only "me"
Sweeden is not socialist, despite the high taxes, extensive social welfare programs, and significant regulation. It is a free-market capitalist state with capital markets, contracts, profits, competition, and private ownership. Its system is fundamentally similar to that of Germany, Japan, or the U.S., despite a larger public sector.
There's no "we" in team, only "me"
The point is to put the legislators in the position of having to do something about it. What could they do? Would they start taxing recorded computer media and, in the process, tax the very software vendors that they are trying to help with this tax? Would they make subjective decisions about the value of the data on each diskette sold to determine if the diskette should be taxed? Would they ban the sale of software on erasable media (e.g., floppies)?
When the laws are made byzantine and draconian (how about a +1 for "big words"?) enough, they get repealed.
This is an old arguement for Canadians, who have been paying premiums on media for (perhaps) a year now. (It may be longer, but I've clearly stopped paying attention...)
The main criticism I have with these fees is not that it penalizes the innocent, it's that the money doesn't find its way to the artists anyway. And independent artists who are not beneficiaries of RIAA and MPAA payouts are penalized because their sole distribution method (pre-mp3, that is) has been blank cassettes and CD's. Now we have hard-drives and optical media devices which are going to have copy protection, which may close off even these mechanisms of promulgation. Put another way, Metalica and their like will get some money, but joe's band down the street get's nothing. The payouts are based (to my understanding) on record/tape/cd sales.
Ultimately these fees, and the organizations who have demanded them are fundamentally not interested in art or preservation of income for artists, but it is a thinly veiled cash grab to offset the increasing volume of art-commerce done directly between consumer and producer. In short, the middle-men (and high-selling artists on their payroll who don't benefit from a strong indie scene) don't like being cut-out and so they are fighting back with international lobbying for national compensation.
Fie! Fie on them!
i - This sig provided by
...chalk up another one for The Bad Guys. The corporations have managed to get presumption of guilt into the legal system when their precious money's involved.
This is one of those times I'm glad not to live in the EU. Of course, I somehow doubt it'll be too long until the US starts eyeing this, and then I'll be screwed either way.
----------
The U.S. does this already with casette tapes. It will only take a little bit more lobbying for Congress to extend this to optical media (CD-R, etc).
is there anyone who dosnt think that Capatalist Corporatism has gone too far?
Not at this keyboard. Of course, I object to the term "Capitalism" being used that way. I think "Fascism" is a more accurate term. Or perhaps "Corporate Statism." But what we have is is definitely not capitalism -- taxing the users of products on the assumption that they are criminals, for the benefit of a specific group of people? Please. Take that back to Harrison Bergeron where you found it. The problem with using the term "capitalism" to describe a situation where the government takes away the rights/money/freedom on one group in order to give it to another and/or increase its own power is that, it will make people want "not capitalism," i.e., something like socialism or fascism -- systems that are, by definition, the government taking away the rights/money/freedom on one group in order to give it to another and/or increase its own power. I see it as a trap. What I want is more freedom, not more bondage. Corporate statism, socialism, fascism, communism -- all the collectivisms -- result in more bondage and less freedom.
- - - - -
Napster-to-go says "Fill and refill your compatible MP3 player", which is a lie. It's not MP3. It's WMA with DRM.
I guess Communism is beginning to look alot more appealing, eh? Imagine: State owned business (no monopolies screwing us)
... except, of course, the state, which runs those monopoly businesses.
and a planned economy (what advantage do proprietary standards and IP have?)?
Mmm... central planning. Where's the bread line? I'll get in now. Under a "planned economy," some people get to decide what the rest do, and they have the force of government coercion to make the proles "cooperate." That's "better?"
For 50 years the Monied Elite in America have destroyed Socialist Ideals with a transparent campaign of propaganda
This is almost the exact opposite of the actual situation. For the whole last century, the leaders of the U.S. have denounced "socialism" and "communism" while nurturing it here. Check out the Socialist Party Platform from the early 1900s. Notice how 100% of it is law in one form or another. The U.S. has a mixed economy, but vast sections of it are, in fact, government-controlled and even centrally planned in some cases. Very few markets are "free" in the U.S. Take banking and finance, for instance -- heavily regulated, with a central bank that has the power to define the value of the currency; the dollar is worth more or less depending on how the Fed inflates or deflates the money supply. Agriculture: almost totally government-controlled. They set prices, quotas and provide subsidies. They allow or disallow any particular thing from being produced or sold. Everything is licensed. Power: nearly 100% state-controlled, if not owned, monopolies. Health: largely overnment controlled, nad moreso every day. Since 1965, control has increased steadily. One day, the outright nationalization of health care will be announced. Right now, it's just controlled through medicare, medicaid, FICA, HMO regulations, and lawsuits. Witness the creeping control of government over TV, Radio, computers, the internet, and even political speech -- which is specifically protected by the consitution. Not that the constitution matters a whole lot; it's pretty much just the overheated and failing brakes on the busride to hell these days.
- - - - -
Napster-to-go says "Fill and refill your compatible MP3 player", which is a lie. It's not MP3. It's WMA with DRM.
If you're an independent artist (whether you've sold any works or not), petition or sue the government for your cut of the money. After all, this is to compensate artists, not labels.
sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f(q{sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f});
Of all the corrupt $WHOREING$ things western governments are doing right now, this has got to take the cake...
Is it just me, or did anyone else read this in the parent, and think, "what kind of variable is WHOREING?"
[
Can I now legally copy audio CDs for my friends?
The simple answer is NO, but you can legally copy your friend's audio CD for YOUR OWN use.
To paraphrase the introduction to the Copyright Board's ruling:
On March 19, 1998, Part VIII of the Copyright Act came into force. Until then, copying any sound recording for almost any purpose infringed copyright.
Part VIII legalizes one such activity: copying of sound recordings of musical works onto recording media for the private use of the person who makes the copy.
It does not matter whether you own the original sound recording (on any medium), you can legally make a copy for your own private use.
To emphasize this point, endnote 4 of the Copyright Board's ruling says:
Section 80 does not legalize (a) copies made for the use of someone other than the person making the copy; and (b) copies of anything else than sound recordings of musical works. It does legalize making a personal copy of a recording owned by someone else.
Please think before you flame
Buying a Dell computer is equivalent to dropping the soap in a prison shower.
Well, since we have the tax now in Canada, it is kinda legal to do this. We now have the right for casual copying. This means basically, I lend you any CD you want and you can copy it. I can also make copies for myself (duh). However, I cannot make copies for you, you physically have to make the copy.
This is logical, because whats to stop people from just starting their own pirating business? It works nicely, people have the right to lend CDs out to friends and let them copy 'em. It may not seem like a lot, but it allows the music companies to actually distribute "their" music while giving consumers the rights they deserve with the content they purchased.
Buying a Dell computer is equivalent to dropping the soap in a prison shower.
Hard drives *can* be used for pirating but are mostly used for other purposes, this is like taxing cars because some of them can be used as getaway vehicle in a bank robbery
Besides, with the margins they put on, it simply won't work, any neighbouring EU country will simply ship the hardware sans tax. Those socialist bastards[0] will simply tax their own sellers out of existance.
[0] i spent 17 years under socialism... so i figure i got full right to use the term ;)
-DVK
"The right to figure things out for yourself is the only true freedom everyone shares. Go use it"-R.A.Heinlein
Now it's For the Artists. Yet another sticker they can throw on anything to force laws past the public's scrutiny, on seemingly moral grounds.
It's spelled minidisc. 'disc' for optical media, and 'disk' for magnetic media. But then again, a professional journalist such as yourself working for a technology site would know that, wouldn't you?
-atrowe: Card-carrying Mensa member. I have no toleranse for stupidity.
The only way to keep this kind of tax from being levied in the United States is to make out voices heard by voting -- even if it means pushing the chad all of the way out and reading the instructions.
What really bugs me about this, and should probably really make the French angry is that this tax is going on hard drives, too. The article says HDD will be taxed from US$86-144, and DVD-RAM about US$8.29. I'm guessing a CD-ROM would be around US$1-2. I don't how many HDD the French buy, but record companies must be excited about this.
If I lived in France, you can bet my hard drive would be filled with Metallica MP3's.
Great, a black market in computer hardware!
The world is getting more SciFi all the time.
Smuggling cigarettes is boring anyway.
"Hey, you! Is that an IDE interface in your pocket!?"
"It's for personal use, man, don't hassle me!"
"Tell me, do you use LINUX?" "That's none of
your business, man."
"Ho ho, what's THIS? A bag of blank CDR disks!
You're coming with me, son." "No, wait, those
belong to my brother, man, I never even saw them
before."
When did our governments get in the business of collecting taxes for products specifically because their use may or may not cause some industry money?
/. community are fundementally resolved when employing other economic systems - too bad we've already lost our governments to these $WHORES$. I guess we will have to take it up the duff and wait for the revolution. They always come. This last 200 years _could_ have lead to a different outcome, but alas we havnet learnt anything. Replacing our Monarchs and Priests with CEO's and Monied Elite leads to the same problems... McCarthy sure did us a favour -- polluted the American psyche so badly it is going to take 100 years to recover from the "Red" scare.
Whats next? You pay a tax on bicylces because it may cost the Auto Industry revenue?
You pay a tax on Beer because it may cost the Win Industry revenue?
Of all the corrupt $WHOREING$ things western governments are doing right now, this has got to take the cake -- so, is there anyone who dosnt think that Capatalist Corporatism has gone too far?
I guess Communism is beginning to look alot more appealing, eh? Imagine: State owned business (no monopolies screwing us) and a planned economy (what advantage do proprietary standards and IP have?)? Looks like the 2 Major Ills of the
I wonder if America(Americans) realize that they have been BrainWashed - I mean that very literally. For 50 years the Monied Elite in America have destroyed Socialist Ideals with a transparent campaign of propaganda. This conditioning has led America(Americans) to trust, believe and have faith in whatever dogma is spewed in the interest of Business(TM).
How sad - any hope to build a civilization where humanity can grow and achieve has been replaced with greed, selfishness and consumerism. It truely sickens me.
I wonder why people cling to the present Corporatist economic system - is a Government bought and sold to/by TransNational Corporate interest not enough?
Does anyone need any more evidence?
If AOL were to start distributing on CD-RW media, they might actually find willing takers in France!
What I always wonder about this is - If I buy some blank CD's, and pay an extra fee which goes to the distribution companies and (maybe) artists that I am possibly copying, then shouldn't it be legal for me to actually copy their stuff?
If I get taken to court, couldn't I just say, "Your Honor, I paid a fee as part of the purchase price of the blank media to compensate them for copying their content. If that doesn't make it legal for me to copy their content, then it should be illegal for them to charge me extra for the blank media, right?"
Torrey Hoffman (Azog)
Torrey Hoffman (Azog)
"HTML needs a rant tag" - Alan Cox
Let me get this straight--government in France does something stupid, and you use this as evidence that corporations are evil? This is a recurring theme on Slashdot--government does something evil, at the behest of a corporation, and we blame corporations for wanting something in their own interest, not government for caving in. This is completely ass-backwards.
The solution to these kinds of stupid laws (DMCA, UCITA, etc.) is not socialism/communism and more government. It's campaign finance reform so that nobody can buy off politicians, and less government. We have to enforce separation of government and corporate interests. If corporations are disbarred from forming high-powered lobby groups or making huge "soft money" campaign contributions, their power over government will evaporate.
Remember, without government co-operation, the worst a corporation can do is make crappy products you don't have to buy. It's the government that has the power of the gun, and thus the government that people should fear most.
- Assumption of criminality: "Pay this tax, just in case you're a criminal." This is ridiculous. Paying car insurance is one thing, because no one ever plans to have an accident, but taxing people just in case they decide to do something illegal. Bullshit.
- Who will it help? Who is this supposed to benefit? The artists? Bullshit again - they're already getting screwed, just like they've always been, and will continue to be. Not that every musician is exploited, but very many are, and they won't see a cent from this.
- Business model. At the core, this is government levying taxes on a population to prop up an outdated business model. If real competition were present in the industry, companies would seek to improve their business plans rather than ask government for a handout. It's not my job to compensate fools for failed business practices: stupidity should be painful.
Sigh. This has all been said before, though.pessimistic legs signs off
question: is control controlled by its need to control?
answer: yes
This isn't as much "normalization" as it is "don't take so many drugs when you're designing tables."