The United States is basically the only "first-world" country that still has the death penalty. Have you seen the list of countries that have the death penalty? Members of that list include countries like Afghanistan, Sudan, Yemen, United Arab Emirates, United States, South America, and North Korea.
Well, thanks for playing but: firstly, South America is not a country and lastly, there are no (to my knowledge) countries in it that have capital punishment in their civil codes, except for treason in times of war. Perhaps you meant South Africa? --
If the US educational system wasn't such a crap, you would know that Sweden is just a tad smaller than Texas (though closer in size to California) and due to its shape, a long strip stretching from North to South, distances that have to be covered are comparable, if not greater than in California and Texas, the two largest contiguous states, BTW. Granted, most of that population lives in the southernmost areas, but you get my point. --
I wouldn't bother to reply at this stage of the thread, but your implying that I belittled Microsoft's feats shows that you didn't understand a word of what I wrote.
What I meant is: they got where they are (dominant compiler, dominant word processor, dominant spreadsheet, donimant app-de-jour) by leveraring the DOS/Windows combo that they cooked up in the 80s, and of course by deftly cutting the competition out. In the 90s they haven't managed to come up with a single idea to further leverage their monopoly and are instead reacting (quite successfully so far, actually) to competitive threats. --
I agree with everything you said about Windows helping propel Micrososft to the heights it currently is. Observe, nevertheless, that the strategic course (and most of the technical) taken by MS regarding Windows was already outlined in the late 80s. Perhaps it wasn't clear for everybody in the field (specially IBM) but there was a clear roadmap for MS. Of course, they managed to leverage Windows because of their stronghold on DOS, acuired in the early 80s. Of course, they lately managed to elbow out most particpants in the DOS/Windows app market because of their Windows stronghold. That is, everything MS reaped in the 90s is a consequence of: a) DOS dominance in the early 80s; 2) Leveraging Windows through their market dominance;
In the 90s, Microsoft just played catch up, either voluntarily, when it went after the enterprise/networking markets where Novell and various UNIX vendors played alone, or involuntatily, and quite taken by surprise, as in the case of the whole Internet explosion thing. If that is not obvious too you, I suspect you must not be very old, despite the 'remember VisiCalc' reference. --
IMHO, as much as dislike much of Microsft's policies, Gates certainly deserves to be listed as number one in the list... of the 80s.
But in the nineties, ins spite of all its stock growth, Microsoft has mostly been reactive to threats to its marketshare. Granted, it has a fast reaction time, and once it gets in on whatever new trend that menaced it, it doesn't let go easily, but this is far from being influential or leading the way, at least IMO. --
Migration from the latest and greatest Redhat to the equivalent Debian (woody) is quite painless and effortless, at least on a PC workstation, and speaking from personal experience. I never ran Linux on a SPARC, but I can't see why the conversion shouldn't be as smooth on them.
And with Debian you get all the nice auto-upgrading features that RedHat is just starting to add, for free. --
Good rant. Now step away from the keyboard and think for a moment: who is going skip the SunOS thingie that came with the box and install Linux on it? If you think that happens vey often at a Big Company [TM], well think again. People who are going venture installing Linux on a SPARC machine are generally the sort of people who can do away with tech support or find the ropes on their own. Their bosses are probably from the same ilk, so it's highly unlikely that they would shy away from Debian, IMHO. --
There was a Clint Eastwood movie where the uberbadguy made a compact plastic gun for the
purpose of getting through a metal detector to shoot the president.
The movie in question is "In the Line of Fire" and the über-bad guy is played by the master John Malkovich. A great action flick that doesn't make a joke of its viewer's wits and has a great cast. All hail IMDb! --
And there's probably never been a case of somebody accusing Microsoft of doing bad things (falsely or not) without Zico frantically jumping at their defence consumed with rage against the Linux zealots.
But the AC that replied before me showed a much greater sense of humor, certainly a lot more than you deserve. Too bad he's not yet (moderators - wink, wink, nudge, nudge) visible at +1. --
Claro que não. Ou Vc acha que tem algum gringo lendo e/ou prestando atenção no que a gente está discutindo?
Meu jovem, eu conheço pessoalmente o Cláudio e alguns outros fulanos da Conectiva. Nenhum deles é mal-intencionado em relação ao movimento do software livre. A Conectiva publica SRPMs de todos os pacotes que tem fonte livre. Ela paga "hackers" que desenvolvem software livre. Ela traduz para o português toneladas de manuais de usuário. O que mais Vc quer? Ah, mas já vi: Vc é um dos que acha que traduzir páginas de manual é coisa de "lammer!!!!!" (acrescente quantas excalmações convier). Francamente...
Então assuma que o objetivo da Conectiva é produzir um Linux traduzido. Acrescente a isso os pacotes (ssh, openssl) que a RedHat não pode exportar (e a Conectiva pode) e veja se o balanço não é positivo;
Qualquer um que ouça a baboseira que abunda nos canais de IRC no Brasil sabe que esses pululam com debilóides que não sabem localizar o próprio nariz com um espelho e adoram se insultar mutuamente com o termo "lammer", palavra que eles aparentemente julgam fazer parte da língua inglesa. Geralmente o ódio que eles dedicam à Conectiva decorre simplesmente do fato de eles terem traduzido as páginas de manual. Qualquer um desses fulanos pode até tentar ridicularizar o Cláudio, mas vai fazer papel de palhaço se comparar seus feitos aos dele;
Não estou canonizando ninguém. Apenas não vejo furo na atuação da Conectiva, por enquanto, ao contrário da Corel, por exemplo. Lembre-se que só não existe competição porque ninguém se aventurou ainda, e não porque eles acuaram a concorrência;
E por que Vc acha que ele não o está fazendo? E suscitar discussões técnicas sobre os assunto é uma maneira bastante inteligente de começar a abordá-lo;
I was not trolling, I'm simply fed up with all the 'RH sux0rs, Slackware is the sh1t' kind of posts that flood/. whenever there's an announcement on RH's part.
Maybe it's a knee-jerk thing, but it is my opinion that RH is in general a good distro (albeit flaky somtimes) and the company strives to be a good player within the community. In return, they get a lot of shit from 'leet types, who generally tend to be of the Slackware persuasion.
OTOH, technically I think Slack is a dated system that had its hey-day (damn it, I started with it) but turned out into a backwards-looking, anti-innovative, non LSB compliant one man show. We should let it die the peaceful death it deserves and support forward looking systems, such as Debian or all the RPM based distros. --
Slashdot decides to post anything remotely related to Microsoft, Zico bitches about it and is immediately bitchslapped for being such a predictable bore.
Vc cogitou a possibilidade de que talvez, provavelmente, o Cláudio desconhecia as novidades com o RPM 4 ou estava realmente interessado na integração do RPM com o apt?
Já temos teorias conspirátorias o suficiente por parte dos gringos aqui, não é necessário que brazucas também o façam com os produtos da terra. A Conectiva emprega dois dos mais competentes "hackers" brasileiros, o Cláudio e o Alfredo Kojima, e não merece esse tipo de coisa. Além disso, eles pagam o Andrew Clausen (na Austráia!) como mantenedor do GNU parted. Acho que isso fala bem alto, não?
E por outro lado, qual a diferença entre o que eles fazem e o que a Mandrake faz? Ou a SuSE? Pense nisso... --
Funny how, with all the version bumping thing and what not, Slack still hasn't managed to come up with a decent package manager or to follow Linux FSS correctly.. --
And it's not like K5 doesn't promote Slackware much more prominently than/. does Debian, right? When was the last time you saw a discussion of RH or Debian on K%? --
I'm rooting for Debian as well, but rather than have it kick Redhat's butt, I wish it would conquer the entrenched masses of stubborn Slackware lusers out there that haven't yet seen the light. --
It's not outrageously funny but rather egregiously deceitful. RedHat didn't start any version bumping, perhaps Mandrake or SuSE did, but not RH. And in any case, RH never bumped as high as Volkerding, so I think it is really childish on his part. --
I beg to differ on just a little issue, here. After being a happy RH user for the best of five years (well, not always that happy <g>) and switched to Debian about a month ago. The installation was OK, but then again I have some experience in my belt. It was definitely more difficult than Slack (which I ditched a looong time ago) and probably much more confusing for a newbie to get around to. BTW, I'm as happy as a clam with Debian now, but I won't diss RH. It is a very good distro, no matter if you're a newbie or a guru, and RH deserves the respect of all free software lovers.
I don't why people emphasize this point about Slackware being difficult. It is not significantly more difficult than RedHat, just different.
On anothe note, apt-get is really the shit, but gnome-apt still has some rough edges to be smoothed out. --
Re:ESR should send big fat checks to Levy
on
Hackers
·
· Score: 1
Are you really Steven Levy or are you just pulling our collective legs <g> ?
Well, just in case, I just want to reassert that your book is awesome, and at least IMHO, you're one true hacker yourself, albeit of the journalistic persuasion. Thanks, man!
--
Slashdot Mirror
Well, thanks for playing but: firstly, South America is not a country and lastly, there are no (to my knowledge) countries in it that have capital punishment in their civil codes, except for treason in times of war. Perhaps you meant South Africa?
--
If the US educational system wasn't such a crap, you would know that Sweden is just a tad smaller than Texas (though closer in size to California) and due to its shape, a long strip stretching from North to South, distances that have to be covered are comparable, if not greater than in California and Texas, the two largest contiguous states, BTW. Granted, most of that population lives in the southernmost areas, but you get my point.
--
What I meant is: they got where they are (dominant compiler, dominant word processor, dominant spreadsheet, donimant app-de-jour) by leveraring the DOS/Windows combo that they cooked up in the 80s, and of course by deftly cutting the competition out. In the 90s they haven't managed to come up with a single idea to further leverage their monopoly and are instead reacting (quite successfully so far, actually) to competitive threats.
--
I agree with everything you said about Windows helping propel Micrososft to the heights it currently is. Observe, nevertheless, that the strategic course (and most of the technical) taken by MS regarding Windows was already outlined in the late 80s. Perhaps it wasn't clear for everybody in the field (specially IBM) but there was a clear roadmap for MS. Of course, they managed to leverage Windows because of their stronghold on DOS, acuired in the early 80s. Of course, they lately managed to elbow out most particpants in the DOS/Windows app market because of their Windows stronghold. That is, everything MS reaped in the 90s is a consequence of: a) DOS dominance in the early 80s; 2) Leveraging Windows through their market dominance;
In the 90s, Microsoft just played catch up, either voluntarily, when it went after the enterprise/networking markets where Novell and various UNIX vendors played alone, or involuntatily, and quite taken by surprise, as in the case of the whole Internet explosion thing. If that is not obvious too you, I suspect you must not be very old, despite the 'remember VisiCalc' reference.
--
But in the nineties, ins spite of all its stock growth, Microsoft has mostly been reactive to threats to its marketshare. Granted, it has a fast reaction time, and once it gets in on whatever new trend that menaced it, it doesn't let go easily, but this is far from being influential or leading the way, at least IMO.
--
Wait, I get it: too much time on your hands and too little to do with it.
--
And why wouldn't you, if one may be enlightened to know?
--
And with Debian you get all the nice auto-upgrading features that RedHat is just starting to add, for free.
--
Good rant. Now step away from the keyboard and think for a moment: who is going skip the SunOS thingie that came with the box and install Linux on it? If you think that happens vey often at a Big Company [TM], well think again. People who are going venture installing Linux on a SPARC machine are generally the sort of people who can do away with tech support or find the ropes on their own. Their bosses are probably from the same ilk, so it's highly unlikely that they would shy away from Debian, IMHO.
--
The movie in question is "In the Line of Fire" and the über-bad guy is played by the master John Malkovich. A great action flick that doesn't make a joke of its viewer's wits and has a great cast. All hail IMDb!
--
Given that you post regularly on /., does that make you a whiny idiot too? You certainly sound whiny to me...
--
But the AC that replied before me showed a much greater sense of humor, certainly a lot more than you deserve. Too bad he's not yet (moderators - wink, wink, nudge, nudge) visible at +1.
--
FYI, xanim is also non-free (free for non-commercial purposes, blah-blah) and is thusly categorized in Debian.
--
--
Maybe it's a knee-jerk thing, but it is my opinion that RH is in general a good distro (albeit flaky somtimes) and the company strives to be a good player within the community. In return, they get a lot of shit from 'leet types, who generally tend to be of the Slackware persuasion.
OTOH, technically I think Slack is a dated system that had its hey-day (damn it, I started with it) but turned out into a backwards-looking, anti-innovative, non LSB compliant one man show. We should let it die the peaceful death it deserves and support forward looking systems, such as Debian or all the RPM based distros.
--
Yawn, ideed...
--
Já temos teorias conspirátorias o suficiente por parte dos gringos aqui, não é necessário que brazucas também o façam com os produtos da terra. A Conectiva emprega dois dos mais competentes "hackers" brasileiros, o Cláudio e o Alfredo Kojima, e não merece esse tipo de coisa. Além disso, eles pagam o Andrew Clausen (na Austráia!) como mantenedor do GNU parted. Acho que isso fala bem alto, não?
E por outro lado, qual a diferença entre o que eles fazem e o que a Mandrake faz? Ou a SuSE? Pense nisso...
--
Funny how, with all the version bumping thing and what not, Slack still hasn't managed to come up with a decent package manager or to follow Linux FSS correctly..
--
And it's not like K5 doesn't promote Slackware much more prominently than /. does Debian, right? When was the last time you saw a discussion of RH or Debian on K%?
--
I'm rooting for Debian as well, but rather than have it kick Redhat's butt, I wish it would conquer the entrenched masses of stubborn Slackware lusers out there that haven't yet seen the light.
--
It's not outrageously funny but rather egregiously deceitful. RedHat didn't start any version bumping, perhaps Mandrake or SuSE did, but not RH. And in any case, RH never bumped as high as Volkerding, so I think it is really childish on his part.
--
Slow down, yoda boy, or hardly can we understand you.
--
I don't why people emphasize this point about Slackware being difficult. It is not significantly more difficult than RedHat, just different.
On anothe note, apt-get is really the shit, but gnome-apt still has some rough edges to be smoothed out.
--
Well, just in case, I just want to reassert that your book is awesome, and at least IMHO, you're one true hacker yourself, albeit of the journalistic persuasion. Thanks, man!
--
afc@tonga:~$ dpkg --list | wc -l
1113
Talk about bloat now, heh <g>
--