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Work Options In The U.S. When Student Visas Expire?
Ellen Spertus asks: "I'm a computer science professor and am unsure how to advise my students who are on student visas about how to work toward getting a H1B visa or other means of being able to work in the U.S after graduating. Any advice?" What advice do you all have for foreigners looking to work in the U.S.? What would be the best way for them to go about getting a green card, especially if any possible corporate sponsorship is in doubt?
When you graduate, you start with what is called "practical training", which allows you to work at any company on stuff somewhat related to your degree. This gives you a 1-year breathing room. During this period, you should look around for a job at place where you wouldn't mind working for 3-4 years. The best bet is to head over to one of the "hot" areas like Boston, Bay Area, RTP, (to name a few) and apply locally at companies there. Chances are very high that you will get a job offer or two within a couple of days.
Next, the company will apply to the INS for an "H-1" visa for you. This process takes about 1-3 months. Since you are in a "practical training" status, you can start work from day #1.
Once you have the H-1 visa (typically valid for 3 years, and extensible for upto 6 years total), ask your company to start your "green card" processing. This can take from a few months to a few years, depending on the company!. If the company you work for has had trouble hiring qualified people in the past, they can "rush" your greencard application along by using the "Reduction in Recruiting" (RIR) clause. I know of people in the Bay Area who got their greencards in 6-8 months this way, working for Oracle.
Which brings me to the final point: try to pick companies which are relatively big, so that they will know what to do about H-1s, and they will have a good team of lawyers on hand to do the processing.
Some URLs to checkout:
75% of the American people want LESS IMMIGRATION. Who wants it? The rich people want it. It means they can pay lower wages. Opposition to massive immigration IS THE POPULAR OPINION. Stop moderating opposition to immigration down.
Please see these websites http://www.shusterman.com/ or http://www.usvisa.com/ or http://www.usvisanews.com/ or ask any immigration lawyer for more info.
The Netherlands is a very tolerant country when it comes to foreigners. At least my girlfriend (Iranian) tells me that. Holland already has over a million Muslim inhabitants (total 15 million), we have muslim schools and even the Islam is thaught at the University. In Holland everyone has equal chances to make it, at least as much as possible. There are some small villages with rascists though, I recall the village Roden being the worst. (Still a minority there though) I hope you have similar positive experiences.
I'm not sure you've got all the facts WRT immigrants coming here to "be americans".
It was a common practise for immigrants to come to america, make money, and return to their home towns to settle down. I.e. the patriarch of the Trump family (i.e. the builder of New Yorks City's ugliest buildings) made their fortune, returned to europe (germany or austria I believe) with money, and then was chased out because he had returned just after he was over mandatory military service age.
There are mining towns in Pennsylvania where the entire town came from one village in italy and they came here to work, but brought over the culture etc. of their old world. Certianly not to become americans.
The current state of america's amazingly broad background of people seems to me to be at least as much the result of people who were determined they were never going to stay but were seduced by the better life here as it was people who up and moved.
Don't believe the happy crap in the history books. Most of it is lies. Lots of people moved to america because the alternative was to be put on a firing line or starving. I believe that if a person moves just to make money, in most cases they will believe they will return to their home. It's desperation that causes people to uproot themselves completely.
-Peter
== Just my opinion(s)
I have no problem with legal immigrants who work hard (regardless of their education) but at the bare minimum you must learn to speak and write English, I don't expect ya to be fluent but give it your best.
What annoys me to no end is calling my Electricity provider and having to press "1" to continue in English. When my relatives came over from Italy at the beginning of the century they didn't have that luxury, they adapted just like all the other immigrants.
It is quite easy. Student visas are numerous and plentiful. Plus, you get a year of working in the US when you graduate from college.
A lawyer friend of mine helped out a foreigner by setting up a corporation in the US specifically for the purpose of hiring the guy. It was more convoluted than that (more than one corporation and such) but that's the gist of it. It wasn't cheap, he charged the guy several grand.
Man, I could have used such advice when I lived in Montréal. I miss Canada so much here in the United States but as a U.S. Citizen, it's just as hard, if not harder, for me to get a job in Canada / Québec (and trust me when you speak French Québec IS easier to get into than Canada) that it is with all those H1Bs my government gives out. I did have a work permit in Canada but because of full-time employment restrictions I was unable to secure a job that would also sponser me. Alas, so Washington D.C. ain't all THAT bad. :)
Be Seeing You,
Jeffrey.
Time Lord, Dark Horse: The Techno Mage of Gallifrey
Do you have reading comprehension problems, or do you just like to pretend you completely miss the point? Go back and look at my earlier post. See where it says:If you actually read what I wrote, you'll see that I never suggested eliminating the quotas, or even raising them. What I suggested was removing the job-transfer restrictions on people with H1B's. In particular, I don't think H1B holder should have to wait 3 months to switch jobs, nor should greencard applications be nullified if one switches companies.
If people with H1B's could easily switch jobs, then companies would have less of an incentive to hire people with H1Bs. This, in turn, means more American will get hired, which is good for American workers. It also means that it's very unlikely that the H1B quota won't be reached (so there won't be a need to raise it yet again). Finally, the H1B workers will have a lot more freedom.
As you said, you can't make everyone happy. The people who won't be happy are the companies who now have to pay bit more for American workers, and deal with the fact that they don't have any indentured servants anymore. Also, those people who would get H1Bs in the current system but won't with the new system would be upset as well. (these would typically be the less skilled people, I would imagine) My point is that American workers shouldn't be blaming the H1B employees. They should be blaming the corporations and the INS for making the situation so bad, when there is a simple solution that would help the American workers. (who are the voters, after all... isn't the US supposed to be a democracy?)
I doubt it very much. INS is a secondary factor, Silicon Valley still has more jobs and higher pay.
Sillicon valley is getting worse though. The rent and housing prices are astronomically high. It's getting to the point where the amount of money you get to keep after paying taxes, food, and rent in Silicon valley is less than it would be in Vancouver even if you were only making half as much in Vancouver. And the stock shake-up hasn't helped the job situation in the valley all that much. Most people want options, but when stocks are falling, options are worthless.
Perhaps market forces will balance things out. It could take a while though. The stocks dropped quite a few months ago, but housing prices are still on the rise.
In any case, reducing the painfullness of the process (of getting to a green card) will result in the increase of people applying to the program.
The second problem is a bigger one: companies would be hesitant to support H1B visas. Why should they when, as far as they know, they are going to be used as just a way to get into the country, a temporary stop to jump to someplace else.
The first problem is solved by the second: people only get H1Bs by having a job lined up. If less companies are willing to hire H1Bs, there won't be an increased demand from the INS's point of view. There would actually be fewer applications.
I don't think the second problem is is actually a problem at all. If companies are less willing to hire foreign workers, that's better for American workers, because corporations would have a greater incentive to hire Americans. The only people who will be annoyed by this are the corporations, and the foreign workers would want to get an H1B, but aren't able to find an American company willing to hire them.
Yeah, well, it's not like it's hard to find a computer-related job anywhere in the States. Options are mostly given out in Silicon Valley, but for straight salary you can get work anywhere.
It isn't hard to find a computer related job in Canada either, the cost of living is a hell of a lot lower, the standard of living is higher and the chances of getting gunned down in the street is significantly lower. It's much easier to immigrate to Canada as well. If you're just going for straight salary, you might as well go to Canada.
If you're a high-tech worker, becoming a permanent resident of Canada (Canadian equivalent of getting a greencard) is extremely easy. From what I've heard, you can actually complete the process in a couple of months. Canada isn't nearly as xenophobic or draconian as the US...
So everybody is happy. What's your complaint, then?
I guess my first complaint is that you completely ignore the point. The foreign workers aren't happy, and the American workers aren't happy. Worst of all, the American workers blame the foreigners for "stealing their jobs".
Proof, please. Just because you believe that this is possibly true does not make it so, and handwaving isn't going to help.
I've had first-hand experience. If you really want proof for yourself, go work in any of top-10 the companies listed here, and see what I'm talking about.
Of course, if that's too difficult, you could just try and use some common sense. H1B workers don't want to have to leave. Even if their home country isn't horrible, simply having to uproot your life and move everything (again) is a significant burden. So these foreign workers really don't want to be forced to leave. Now couple that with the fact that the employer has complete control over whether the worker is allowed to stay in the US. If the worker is fired, they've got 10 days to leave the US. Imagine trying to move to another country in 10 days. Of course these people are going to work really hard to make sure they don't get fired. Even if the the company doesn't treat them fairly, they'll still grin and bear it.
Now given that, which kind of employee do you think most high-tech companies would rather have: someone who they can pay less, treat badly, and still squeeze 90 hours/week out of, without any significant risk that they'll leave, or an American who will work a normal amount of hours, demand raises, and leave for a competitor if you don't give them what they want?
Wonderful. You "guarantee". And what would you do if your prediction fails?
I'm not saying to remove the quota. Keep it. The worst that would happen is that H1B workers would no longer be indentured servants. Oh, I guess that's just too horrible. But if you actually think through the motivations of the companies, and look at the restrictions placed on foreign workers, you'll see that the current system is set up to not only hurt foreign workers, but also American workers as well.
High-tech companies (at least ones with some sense) hire people they need. Whether the person is an American or an H1B holder is a relatively minor issue. Do you really think that the whole world has less talent to offer than just the United States of America?
My point is that is isn't a minor issue for these companies. As it stands, there is a significant benefit to hiring H1B workers. If the changes I propose were made, then the balance would shift the other way. There would be a benefit to hiring Americans, because the company wouldn't have to pay for the legal work required to get a visa. Right now, that legal work is insignificant compared to the gains of having employees who will work exceedingly long hours, and won't leave unless you fire them.
I define "completely open" as anybody who wants to can come in and live (and work) here for as long as he wants.
So tell me, what would be wrong with that provided these people paid taxes (which they do)?
Er.. weren't you just saying that without artificial incentives the high-tech companies will just hire American workers instead of these damned foreigners? Please unconfuse yourself.
What I'm talking about is the fact that immigrant workers are getting more and more pissed off at the INS. I wouldn't be too surprised if in a few years all of the good high tech workers leave for Canada instead. When the supply of indentured servants dries up, the American high tech companies will either have to leave or do their development outside of the US.
That is the first thing that they should do. Yes it cost money but if they want a green card and to become a resident that is what they should do.
If they just want an HB1 visa they should find a company that is willing to hire them and if the company does not have the procedue in place then get a lawyer. Yes I know we may think of them as the scum of the earth but they do help people.
but you should get married! Seriously, it's probably the easiest way to get US citizenship, and who knows what kind of fun you might find with a nice girl. :-)
--sam
--sam
Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced.
If the US educational system wasn't such a crap, you would know that Sweden is just a tad smaller than Texas (though closer in size to California) and due to its shape, a long strip stretching from North to South, distances that have to be covered are comparable, if not greater than in California and Texas, the two largest contiguous states, BTW. Granted, most of that population lives in the southernmost areas, but you get my point.
--
Information wants to be beer, or something like that.
No, they're not equal enough. They're not Americans. Get it?
As far as I understand, it's not the economic objections that are considered morally questionable. Of course, it's kind of hard to claim real economic harm from the immigrants right now, the economy being how it is. Maybe in a few years.
If the Elbonian immigrants who come here for purely economic purposes do nothing but consume products imported from Elbonia and send money to Elbonia, I think you could make a fair argument that they aren't making a positive contribution to the American economy. At best they're making a marginal contribution and at worst they're just adding to the population/housing/environment problems major coastal cities have AND taking potential opportunities from native-born Americans.
That said, there are dozens of cultures that are having similar problems - trying to defend against a cultural/language invasion. And in a lot of cases, the invaders are English language and American culture. Efforts to resist it are normally either ineffective (France, Quebec) or the cure is arguably worse than the disease (fundamentalist countries.)
Point is, the mapping between geographic location and language (and culture in general) is becoming more and more vague. In other words, it's just another effect of globalization. Cultural boundaries are being broken all over the place. I don't think there's much one can do about it.
Being an American has to mean something or it means nothing. I don't think being an American means the BS that media companies pump out (which is what many fundamentalist countries object to by and large) and I certainly hope it never is reduced to the definition of "being able to be a capitalist".
Being an American should mean embracing the core values of American cultural identity -- freedom, justice, and equality. Just wanting to make a dollar here is a repudiation of those higher values. Furthermore, language is the fluid which binds that cultural identity. You cannot participate in the fullness of American political and social life without speaking English to some degree.
I'm not more interested in having someone come to America to just work and make money and not become an American than Elbonians are interested in having me show up in their country and act American and ignore the customs that make them Elbonians.
Well the obvious option is by marriage but there are several problems with this:
#1 Girl/Guy ratio in computing is a little stiff and most states still don't do same sex marriages.
#2 USA/International ratio (excluding the gender thing) are pretty awful as well.
#3 Have you ever seen the girls that are interested in computers?
Ohh well... just had to throw in my 2 cents.
Telcos have alot of dark fibre in the States. Most people assume that's optical fibre...but it's actually moral fibre.
By this logic, you are implying that the 90% of American citizens who are NOT veterans of the armed services should get out too... Fat chance. I'm glad you spent 10 years of your life defending the belief in freedom, democracy and the flag. Made it so I didn't have to. Thanks, I appreciate it, but I ain't going anywhere.
Eric
Many people seem to think H1Bs are for temporary work. This may be what it seems on paper, but the opposite is true. The INS is severely backlogged in processing green card cases. Even if a foreigner wants to settle down permanently and pursue the "American dream", it would take years to gain permanent residence. Instead, foreigners have to apply for H1Bs to stay during that period. This is why, unlike other nonimmigration visas, H1Bs allow "dual intent": you can enter the country with the dual intent of working as a temporary worker while simultaneously pursuing permanent residence. In other words, whether the foreigner wants to work temporarily to gain work experience or wants to stay permanently, he should be applying for a H1B.
I don't understand this "we have enough immigrants" mentality, which is by no means limited to the US. All developed countries (and many developing nations) have birthrates below replacement rate, and none have succeeded in reversing their declines. Without immigrants, the US will die as a society and as a nation. The rational thing to do is to import warm bodies, preferably those who have significant economic value to the country.
Furthermore they can always apply to graduate school which automatically extends their F-1
[student visa].</i>
Only one year of OPT is attached to any F-1. So extending the visa is not going to extend your OPT time.
Woe be on to them, all who rise against poor people, shall perish in a the end. Buju Banton
Hmm.. This country which was already stolen from the people who lived there. I really think you need to start thinking beyond borders. Some of those workers don't pay taxes but they miss out on a lot of things that you get. Just don't forget all the blood that was shed to steal this land you so proudly call your own. On second thought... is this just trollbait? If so, sorry for biting.
_joshua_
Perhaps I shouldn't be shocked, but it amazes me that a forum such as Slashdot has attracted so many pig-ignorant racist morons.
The ones who post anonymously fair enough, they are obviously squirmy bigoted cowards, but shit, some of these retards actually put their names to their posts. Knee-jerk jingoistic bigoted fuck-pigs.
There, I feel better now.Life sucks but death doesn't put out at all....
I was a C/S major then I used my F1 Visa (Which I presume most of the foreign students here will be on) to job hunt before I graduated. The advice I received at this time was to hunt a company that is not so big or well known! What was meant by this was don't take a number at this stage, keep in mind that you only have a year to become so important/needed that this company is going to go through the hassle to keep you. Once you get in on your F1 for that year, prove yourself and the company will want to keep you. Please read this: If you are on an F1 visa you do not pay FICA tax! Once you get your H1-B or whatever you pay everything, but this could save you several thousand over that first year. (I happened to have a really cool HR staff that did not mind filing the IRS forms, but remember what I said before about trying to fit in that first year, i.e. try not piss to many people off!
The ratio is stacked in favor of the guys, and as a result, there are lots of women in IT here. . .
s/ISSO takes 3 months/INS takes 3 months/
Yes but the effort to isolate it is so painstaking that in practice the way water runs down a drain is random.
The foreign workers aren't happy, and the American workers aren't happy
:-)
Well, you can't make everybody happy all the time. The foreign workers accept this (=> think this is a good deal) because this is a way for them to stay in the US. Again, they pay a price, but they believe that what they get in return is worth it. As to American workers, they seem to forget that it is now a global economy and they have no any special rights to jobs.
I've had first-hand experience
That's not proof. That's what's called anecdotal evidence and I can pull up any number of things that happened to me or my friends and prove anything with that.
Of course these people are going to work really hard to make sure they don't get fired
So, what's wrong with that? We do not live in an ideal world -- being born in the US confers much more advantages than, say, being born in Bangladesh. Given that, these people on H1B visas are climbing up -- they are bettering their life. They pay for this, in part by somewhat worse working conditions. It's up to them whether they believe it is a fair trade.
I'm not saying to remove the quota. Keep it.
So what are you saying? Or you are just bitching for bitching sake?
[re completely open immigration] So tell me, what would be wrong with that provided these people paid taxes (which they do)?
Never been to the third world, have you? I'll tell you what. Say you are a peasant in China. Or India. Or Russia (I'm just naming the most populous countries of the third world). Where would you life be better -- at home or panhandling in the US? For some of them -- at home, but enough of them will choose USA. How do several hundred million of Chinese, Indians and Russians immigrants strike you?
What I'm talking about is the fact that immigrant workers are getting more and more pissed off at the INS
Oh, for sure. INS is a completely horrible organization that is composed of terminally stupid people who believe they are the direct representatives of god on Earth. If it were up to me I'd have them all taken out and shot. Spoken from personal experience
I wouldn't be too surprised if in a few years all of the good high tech workers leave for Canada instead.
I doubt it very much. INS is a secondary factor, Silicon Valley still has more jobs and higher pay.
When the supply of indentured servants dries up, the American high tech companies will either have to leave or do their development outside of the US.
So? No problem. That's one of the things that the marketplace is supposed to take care of, right?
Kaa
Kaa
Kaa's Law: In any sufficiently large group of people most are idiots.
Do you have reading comprehension problems
;-)
Nope, just a short attention span. Er... what I was talking about?
removing the job-transfer restrictions on people with H1B's.
A sensible idea. Two drawbacks, though. First, the goal of the whole process is to make it painful. It's kind of a Darwinian selection. Bureacracy likes to make people jump through hoops and since there is no control over INS ("You say we are rude? Hmm... you want to know about your application? What application? We have no records of any application from you..."), it makes its hoops particularly numerous and nasty. In any case, reducing the painfullness of the process (of getting to a green card) will result in the increase of people applying to the program.
The second problem is a bigger one: companies would be hesitant to support H1B visas. Why should they when, as far as they know, they are going to be used as just a way to get into the country, a temporary stop to jump to someplace else.
Sillicon valley is getting worse though. The rent and housing prices are astronomically high.
Yeah, well, it's not like it's hard to find a computer-related job anywhere in the States. Options are mostly given out in Silicon Valley, but for straight salary you can get work anywhere.
Kaa
Kaa
Kaa's Law: In any sufficiently large group of people most are idiots.
But of course most companies are more than happy to sponsor a greencard, because your application will be cancelled if you leave the company.
So everybody is happy. What's your complaint, then?
[re 9-to-5 jobs] I'm fairly certain that non-US citizens can't get jobs in the US government.
The original poster was complaining that honest Americans had to work 90-hour weeks.
I think his complaint had to do with the fact that H1B workers typically work longer hours for equal or even lower pay than American workers.
Proof, please. Just because you believe that this is possibly true does not make it so, and handwaving isn't going to help.
H1B workers and greencard applicants could switch jobs anywhere near as easily as American workers, I guarantee that the H1B quotas wouldn't even be reached the following year. High tech companies would start hiring Americans first, and only hiring H1B workers when they needed to.
Wonderful. You "guarantee". And what would you do if your prediction fails?
High-tech companies (at least ones with some sense) hire people they need. Whether the person is an American or an H1B holder is a relatively minor issue. Do you really think that the whole world has less talent to offer than just the United States of America?
I'm not sure how you define "completely open"
I define "completely open" as anybody who wants to can come in and live (and work) here for as long as he wants.
Besides, what have you done that makes you deserve special treatment? You were born here?
I? I ain't done nuthing. And, as a matter of fact, I wasn't born here.
Don't worry, the INS's policies are making the environment hostile enough that soon all of the high-tech companies will leave,
Er.. weren't you just saying that without artificial incentives the high-tech companies will just hire American workers instead of these damned foreigners? Please unconfuse yourself.
Kaa
Kaa
Kaa's Law: In any sufficiently large group of people most are idiots.
In order to look at the archives you have to deal with their absoutely _ANNOYING_ method of keeping you wrapped in their frames, so this URL will look pretty ugly, but you can find them at: http://www.s ecu rityfocus.com/frames/?content=/templates/archive.p ike%3Fend%3D2000-09-30%26list%3D77%26sta rt%3D2000-09-24%26threads%3D0%26%26_ref%3D10534417 63.
After reading the thread I think the general concensus was to get married and get a green card :). Crispan Cowan even used the example of the movie as a not-so-far-from-life situation.
Cheers,
Ryan
You don't _have_ to spend 2 years outside of the country. That depends on the IAP66 form you got, when you applied for the visa.
:)
:) (Without leaving the country for two years, that is)
In the left bottom corner, there is a little section with room for checkmarks. When you're lucky, the good one is checked
I am lucky, i got here on a J1 visa to start working for this company before i got my h1b.
Right now, I have an H1b, and i'm hoping to get married before it expires, and get a green card
Its strange to see such racist behavoir on /. I am really suprised. Judge by knowlage.
NO I cant spell!
Bzzzzzt!!! Wrong.
Have you heard of the coriolis effect?
There are two ways to do it: 1) Curricular practical training (CPT) This gives the student rights to work half-time for any company as long as the student is registered full-time and work full-time as long as the student is registered for at least one credit. The work should be study-related and requires only a signiture by the major professor or advisor. You cannot be a CS major and work part-time delivering pizzas. You can work more than a year full-time, but if you do it, you lose the right for the second type of work, OPT. However, you can work as long as you wish part-time without losing the right to do OPT. CPT is usually used when the student has to do summer internship or a brief contract work. 2) Optional Practical Training (OPT) You have to apply for OPT with INS. The approval takes about 3 months, so plan in advance. Also once applied, that's it. It is for up to one year, in the field of study, after graduation or 3 months prior to graduation. Basically this is for students who graduate and want to have one year full-time work experience after graduation. You can do it only once. You can specify the date on which it will take force. Like, I am graduating Dec. 2000, and now I send the OPT application and specify Jan. 01. as a beginning date. Usually what intl. students do is the following. They do CPT for the summer, and if the company likes them, after graduation they do OPT, and meanwhile the company applies for H-1. If the advisor is cool, he/she will let you register for one credit, defend the next semester in absentia, sign the CPT for one semester, meanwhile you submit the application for OPT, this will give you great flexibility and more time for the company to apply for H-1, as the caps run out quickly. The congress I think either passed a legislation to double the caps or is going to do it. And they better do it, because there is a shortage of skilled professionals. I don't mean bachelors, but MS and PhD. There are plenty of CS and EE and CE majors, but the level of the skilled ones (PhD and MS) is very low. Even big companies like IBM, HP and Lucent are forced to hire foreigners because of shortage of citizens. Again, I am talking big research, not Perl scripting or JAVA and CORBA. For these there are plenty of bachelors willing to do it. This is however off topic.
...as soon as companies start replacing managment and marketing people with "cost efficient" H1-B's.
I think there should be a new poll
Where are u from:
-US
-Europe
-Russia
-China
-India
-Rest of world
-Away from Jon Katz
nosig today
Yes, that they think there _is_ no world outside of the USA. Where would they have learned about the rest of the world? At school ?
Living is a horizontal fall
Just do what I did: find yourself a US citizen to marry :)
-----
#o#
#o#
O Moo.
In the US Air Force, the acronym FAIP stands for "First-Assignment Instructor Pilot" - someone whose first assignment after undergraduate pilot training is to go back and be an instructor. As a former student who didn't always get along with the FAIPs, your comment cracked me up.
"The simplest solution is to ignore your dead children."
Thinker, Writer, Human Being
Thinker? - judging by your arguments, your ability to think seems seriously impaired.
"I will take the Ring," he said, "though I do not know the way."
> However after a J visa you have to spend at least two years outside the US
Bong, please play again.
You don't necessarily have to got back for two years, that is upto the visa issuing agency (ie you local embassy.) My wife's J never had the two year requirement on it and she simply transferred on to an H1.
L-1:
Yep, but you have to be employed by the foreign subsidiary for at least a year.
Of course, if you can get in on an L1A then you can get an automatic greencard (no labor cert required.) Still takes 2 years though
Sham marriage. That's the ticket. Hey, it worked for my parents.
It's 10 PM. Do you know if you're un-American?
I am currently engaged to a Japanese woman, and am particularly interested in this issue. I did some research on both the INS and State Department websites, and I can't find any evidence to support your statement that being married outside the US changes the application (or approval) process.
From what I can tell, the same forms have to be filled out and submitted to the same agencies in either case. Could you please provide more detail on which parts of this process are different? I would also really appreciate any additional advice.
Thanks.
On the other hand, non-US students who choose to attend university in the US because they don't consider college in their home country adequate comprise a vast majority of student visa holders
:)
Actually, I don't think it's true. Job prospects play much bigger role. I know it's like that in my case
Why is it considered more morally justifiable for foreigners in American to seek to stay here for purely economic reasons but not morally justifiable for Americans to be economically opposed to migrants, H1B visas, etc? I think that thinking is totally unfair (and as unfair as the pejorative labels of "racist").
As far as I understand, it's not the economic objections that are considered morally questionable. Of course, it's kind of hard to claim real economic harm from the immigrants right now, the economy being how it is. Maybe in a few years.
The objections that often get labeled "racist" have to do with cultural differences, especially language. And you're right, it is unfair - it often has nothing to do with race. But when has political correctness been fair?
That said, there are dozens of cultures that are having similar problems - trying to defend against a cultural/language invasion. And in a lot of cases, the invaders are English language and American culture. Efforts to resist it are normally either ineffective (France, Quebec) or the cure is arguably worse than the disease (fundamentalist countries.)
Point is, the mapping between geographic location and language (and culture in general) is becoming more and more vague. In other words, it's just another effect of globalization. Cultural boundaries are being broken all over the place. I don't think there's much one can do about it.
The J visa category is for exchange visitors and their families. More specifically, J-1 is for the participant in the exchange program, and J-2 is for his or her dependents. What does that have to do with a work permit?
If you enter an academic program, a J-1 visa has a great advantage over an F-1 visa: You are eligible for up to a total of 18 or 36 months of academic training, depending on your degree. You can take advantage of this, as long as the job you are doing is tied to your studies or your research in some way. This is much harder to do withan F-1 visa, and it is also limited to at most 12 months.
Aside from this, the home country residency requirement is only two years, and only if you got government (U.S. or foreign) funding for any part of the exchange program.
Overall I don't know what is better if your plan is permanent residency in the USA, but if you plan to return to your home country after you complete your academic program, consider choosing a J-1 visa instead of F-1.
I hope this helps. Unfortunately, there is a whole lot more I could say because there are several ways to get a green card. However, it makes for too much info for a response on slashdot. Hopefully you will find the links provided useful.
All the solutions here are analysis of the problem and unwanted suggestions with karma points greed. Here is your simple straight answer.
There is no alternative to work. H1B visa is a work permit Visa. So unless the guy lands in the corporate space with a job, he/she is better of continuing the education path. All versed foreign students buffer their transition path where they work on F1 for a brief while before moving to an H1B. Similarly the Green card is given only if INS deems you worthy enough - i.e. you company feels you need one.
So like everything else in this great country, this is also based on corporate policies and capitalist requirements.
How to do this - assuming that the req. are specifically for the I.T. sector, ask you students to find consulting companies or even one man body shops (lot in NJ/NY/MA/CA) that can sponsor for a visa and find a position for them in the meanwhile. Some better ones would give you a job, provided you take care of the paper work and the attorney fees etc. They would be happy to sign anything. For the first year, ask you students to get exploited. The next year or so, they would have enough experience to move on to greener pastures. By then they would have learnt enough about the H1B/GC situation (stupid if they dint learn at school) that they can decide on career/residence strategies
Thank god my parents and their peers, who fought World War 2 to preserve American independence, didn't think like you.
What kind of history books have you got? Not that I don't value the American contribution to overthrowing Nazi Germany, but when for God's sake has "American independence" ever been in danger after the War of Independence?
-- KDE programmer and computer science student in Klagenfurt, Austria.
No, I don't see this "clearly". I find it a bit preposturous to assume to know what "the Axis was out to [do]".
In order for someone to be able to fight for American independence, the Axis would first have had to invade the US. This didn't happen (and no, Perl Harbour wasn't an invasion).
The US joining the war certainly was a good thing, but American soldiers weren't fighting for US independence in any but the most loose meaning of the word.
As for the British buring Washington, I seem to recall that the US started that war, and the burning of Washington was the revenge for the razing of York (later named Toronto), the capital of Upper Canada.
Claiming that those soldiers were fighting for American independence in 1812 is like German Wehrmacht veterans claiming they were fighting to protect their homeland in Russia or Yugoslavia...
-- KDE programmer and computer science student in Klagenfurt, Austria.
btw I'd like to study at least one semester in the US when I finish school. Are there any information available online on how to do this (I am from Germany)?
I've been struggling with the INS for years now, and finally went to a lawyer. His recommendation was to apply for the H1B. There are always certain vocations in demand, and the INS will give preference to these applications. One of the current hot ones is 'Computer Systems Analyst'. If you've got a 4 year degree that qualifies you as a systems analyst, you're ALMOST guaranteed a visa, as long as you send it in on time.
B1ood
Note to self: pasty-skinned programmers ought not stand in the Mojave desert for multiple hours. -- John Carmack
Why is a college professor spending time giving advice to students on immigration rather than just focusing on teaching?
It's called practical training.
You are allowed to work part time (20 hours a week) and for experience only. It's not meant to be your main source of revenue.
You are allowed to do your practical training for 1 year. You can start your practical training after 9 month of full time study.
Of course, IANAL
Looking for a great online backup: Green Backup
That is no doubt correct for you. Thank god my parents and their peers, who fought World War 2 to preserve American independence, didn't think like you.
Some people might say that their own priorities are coincident with their nation's and that they might actually be thinking of the welfare of future generations, not just themselves.
But I see that is obviously not your motivation.
"Computers are useless. They can only give you answers."
"Computers are useless. They can only give you answers."
-- Pablo Picasso
Have you ever considered the effect that the drain of intellectual resources is having on the countries from which the immigrants arrive? Just think of it as the new colonialism, where the exploitation just takes another form.
How are their former countries ever going to advance if the best and brightest are here in the U.S. working for multinationals that don't give a damn about anything but the quarterly balance sheet? An argument could easily be developed that this is another form of racism, designed to keep the third world exactly where it is.
There are consequences to every action, you should consider all aspects before rendering opinions.
"Computers are useless. They can only give you answers."
"Computers are useless. They can only give you answers."
-- Pablo Picasso
And if you're an American with a strange sense of romanticism ("I can help save this person from military service/the 'third world'/their parents...") DON'T marry someone so they can stay in the US.
1.) It is a federal felony to fraudulently marry someone to get them a green card.
2.) You'll really be married. No matter how much you think you're doing it just for the green card. Divorce is expensive, complicated, and takes longer than you think. Plus being married often makes it a lot harder to date. ;-)
None of this is to say that if you, an American, fall in love with someone from another country, or you, an international student, fall in love with an American, you shouldn't get married. But get married for the right reasons, not the green card.
These opinions are my own. My employer is not aware of them, does not endorse them, and is not responsible for them.
Students with their F1 Visas expiring arent the only ones with a problem; there is one class in particular that has a similar, albeit much worse problem in this country with Visas, and they are througoghly ignored: /. community in general, think of ways that your countrymight be kicking its own people, albeit not their citizens, in the proverbial balls, because of where they happened to be born, and also kicking their own citizens, by allowing them not to obtain the services of the truly skiled people here?
the illegal immigrant, and their children.
Now, most think of the illegal immigrant as someone who just crawled in through the border one night, or came in stuffed into someones trunk as they drove back into the US.
But a large majority, are hard-working, knowlegdgeable people, who have come into the country legally, usually through a visitors visa, and found that they had a life that belongs in this country, and ended up staying past their visas expired, thereby becomning illegal.
A lot of people will say kick them out, they overstayed their welcome.
that could be a solution, but to the various people who have been here 5, 10, 15 years, is kicking them out the right answer, esp since they have been paying their taxes just like anyone else, just trying to earn an honest hard-working living?
and what about their children, which is where most problems tend to fall onto?
I know several children of imigrants, in that situation, who are brilliant, and extremely capable of performing amazing technical work, where most people would not even consider possible...
yet they came here with their parents, not born here, so they are illegal themselves.
When it comes time for college, how do they get in? How do they go on to put that education to use, or go get a job, with their knowledge that far outshines that of most citizens and others legally in the country.
If they go their original countries to try to obtain either a tudent or HB-1 Visa, they will be barred from re-entering the country for a minimun of 10 years, because of the period of their stay illegaly in the country.
Or do they just work jobs as dishwashers, painters, and housecleaners, putting to waste a true gift?
To those in that situation, what are their available options?
And to the
Stop over-analyzing your analizations
Even if you assimilate properly into the population as a non-immigrant, the issue still comes up when an employer requires you to show him your social security card, and you are not a citizen, then either you will have none, or there will be some special condition on it, such as NOT VALID FOR WORK or VALID FOPR WORK ONLY WITH INS AUTHORIZATION, and you are out of luck unless the employer decides to ignore that letter, doesnt ask to see it at all (or you give an excuse that you cant find it) or you create false documents (not too hard to do, but not a good idea either)
Stop over-analyzing your analizations
Thats fine for the parents, but should the children, who were 2, 5, 8, 10 when they arrived in the country be held liable for the "crimes" of their parents?
One of ideals of the constitution, was that a child did not have to pay for a parents crimes, yet that is exactly what seems to be the idea with your post, and with current thinking. The parent commited a crime, so lets screw the entire family, including the children who were oh, say, 10, 15 years too young to make their own decisions at the time.
Stop over-analyzing your analizations
Where I live there's quite a few illegal immigrants who easily get jobs, I don't understand how they find work so easily, but college students cannot. They've been to college, they should be smart enough to figure it out on their own...
-HobophobE
-HobophobE
Nothing laughs forever.
(BTW, what's the similarity between making love in a kanoo and Budweiser? ... Fucking close to water!)
For a good beer - think Hof.
it's in my head
(On the coriolis effect)
"The same effect has been accused of responsibility for the direction water circulates when you flush a toilet. This is surely nonsense. In this case, the water rotates in the direction which the pipe points which carries the water from the tank to the bowl."
(taken from urbanlegends.about.com)
it's in my head
it's in my head
I guess you don't ... too bad - for you.
it's in my head
If programs would be read like poetry, most programmers would be Vogons.
More information on H-1Bs here
Perhaps you will have an easier time looking for jobs if you learn how to spell first.
There are short, medium and long term options that all have their drawbacks - and all involve a degree of risk. The shortest term is to apply for a year of practical training. They are allowed to do this if a) they are on an F1 visa and b) have an employer already lined up. If they are here on a J1 or other visa there is very little hope that this will be a viable alternative. Medium term is to try to get an H1 visa. This will also require an employer already lined up who will be willing to sponsor them. This can be arranged during their year of practical training. The disadvantage of H1 visas is that they have a limited lifetime. In fact it is now becoming a problem for a lot of workers in the US on H1 visas who are having to return to their home countries now that their H1 visas are expiring. The third alternative is to apply for a green card. To be eligible they may need to either get their employer to sponsor them or marry a US citizen or apply for the diversity visa lottery. This last is a little known lottery held by the INS every year to boost immigration to the US from countries that would otherwise be underrepresented in the immigration statistics. If they are from a country that sends a lot of immigrants to the US they are likely not eligible. The eligible countries change every year, and there is about a 1 in 16 chance of getting it. However, it's worth it if they want to stay here for any length of time.
On the other hand, non-US students who choose to attend university in the US because they don't consider college in their home country adequate comprise a vast majority of student visa holders
The US is notorious for hiring away foriegners with skills in tech fields. This causes numerous problems. First, the inflow of foriegners working in tech jobs for low pay (perhaps low enough to be considered exploitative) leaves US citizens in a position where it's harder to find the "right" job. Second, the countries from which these folks come are left with a serious deficit in tech-skilled people. Ever wonder why most of the rest of the world is so underdeveloped technologically?
Note the operative word here, "most". Most of the world lags behind. Despite your apparent belief regarding the importance of Europe, it is far from most of the world. In fact, the technologically advanced part of Europe of which you speak only constitutes about 5% of the world population.
You would do well to consider that this thread is about tech positions for foreigners in the US and not the technological supremacy of the US versus Western/Northern Europe. Oh, and please do try to be nice!
I have been in the US for many years. Starting from High School, through college, now work.
It was never my intention to stay here after college, but on thing turned into another, and well, you know how things develop. Why say no to a good job offer?
Basically, once you graduate you need to apply for "Practical Training" which gives you one year to work at a US company.
If the student wishes to remain employed in the US, he or she then needs to start working towards an H-1B Visa. This is a long and tedious process. I suggest a lawyer's help at this point. The whole process takes about 5-6 months so the student needs to start working on it as soon as possible.
In order to get an H-1B Visa, the student needs a job offer from a US company. The company then needs to work with the student and the lawyer to file endless forms and write long letters. Basically INS will want to make sure that the student will be working EXACTLY in their field of study. The company will need to prove that the foreign student was more qualified for the job than the other US applications. The company will also need to prove that the student's salary will be equal (and not lower) to anyone else in the same position (so that the company cannot take advantage for a foreign worker.) This needs to be done QUICKLY because all work Visas are always given out very quickly.
The H1-B Visa is then issued for 3 years. The student can then renew it for 2 more years and then 1 more year. If the student wishes to remain in the US, he or she needs to start working on getting a Green Card. This is the hardest step. This process takes about 1 year. The student will also need the help of a lawyer, as well as the company.
The entire process (from student to US resident) is long and hard, but it can be done.
Please keep in mind that I am not a lawyer, I am just relating my own experience.
What is this all about? Who is the so called "America" and who are those "Americans"? As far as I remember, around 1492 some poor spanish?(portughese) guy, his name: Cristofor Columb sailed towards west hoping to find a better life. Now his sons refuse the right to a new life to his cousins, only because they
1. stealed
2. cheated
3. killed
4.
from the "amerindians". Anyway, it's obvious where the culture comes from and it is spelled "Europe" (I don't deny the role of Asian or African culture, but Europe is the heart of our progress in the last 2000 years, with wars, and everything, you name it)
As far as I see, some self-titled "I'm-too-good-to-be-replaced-by-an-imigrant" who hardly finished college, but have daddy's money and social status come to teach others about life. If you cry about imigrants, please try their life. Come in Romania (where I am) and try living in my life. Try walking in my shoes, if you can, and after you did that, I wonder if you will not claim your american's cousin - for purity reasons. Hahaha. Look who's talking about purity. This was Hitler's claim as well. Remember who you are - a clan of thieves, liar, and outlaws from Europe. I am looking forward to your answers
Spooky of the CyBurial Squad
Tells you something about American culture, now, doesn't it?
Don't these kids want to go back and fix their home countries as Nader says they should?
The views expressed here represent that of NADER and NOT ME.
Hey democracy lovers, add Quorum as a c
USA is a world by itself. Living here will make you ignore what is the rest of the World like. You will learn (read: media brainwashing) that "this is the best country in the World".
Immigration is extremely painful.. all my friends here are non-American and most of them have some immgration issues going on. I'd really suggest to try Canada or Australia. Those are still English speaking countries and immigrating is much easier. Japan also has places for English speaking employees.
After 5 years in USA now I'm counting the days till I can leave and finally be free from all this immigration bullshit ! Yet, I must thank those that gave me the opportunity to come and work here in first place. It was good for training but bad for peace of mind.
Good luck !
This is what industrialized countries do. They allow immigrant workers to enter the country temporarily to fill needed jobs, then ship them out when the work emergency is over, or before the immigrants get too settled and ready to make a case for permanent residency. Watch Drachenfutter and drown your sorrows.
Try to avoid smaller companies. They're the ones most likely to "abuse" a worker that they know can't leave. The bigger companies give you more places to move inside the company if there are problems.
Seriously consider working for a contracting/consulting company. If you work overtime, you get paid. If the gig you're on sucks, you should be able to move without loosing the visa, since you're still employed by the same company.
Yes, you can woke for a year. Most employers won't consider this because of the paperwork. Ask my wife.
remove cap letters to email
Do you have even a rough estimation about the amount of taxes an H-1B worker leaves in USA for a 6 years of period, during his visa is valid?! Then speaking that this worker goes home without giving back is quire rude. Not speaking about the high rents. So hight that it looks like a robbery. All those money remain in USA, in your country! Take a look around, having in mind this -- it makes a different picture, a?!
Have you heard about Fiancee Visa (K-1, IIRC) ???
e +visa&kl=XX&pg=q&Translate=on
You stay in the US, she comes on that visa and you get married here.
http://www.infodomain.com/american.htm
http://www.altavista.com/cgi-bin/query?q=Fiance
Tigers respect lions, elephants and hippos. Maggots respect no one. (C) S. Dovlatov
I've misunderstood you then.
;-)
Uspehov!
Tigers respect lions, elephants and hippos. Maggots respect no one. (C) S. Dovlatov
but the salary rates suck, as does the much higher taxes.
"After making tennis shoes for fourteen hours a day since I was 6 years old, I'm ready to switch to coding"
"George Dubyah has my vote"
"What you pay an American in a month could feed my entire village for 200 years"
And the most important phrase you can teach you budding scholars:
"Thank you sir, may I have another?"
First word of advice is, check with the school's Office of International Studies, or whatever they may call it. They're the ones that would have helped the student get a student visa in the first place, and have to sign their I-20 every time they leave the country, etc. In my case, they were extremely helpful, explaining which programs I was eligible for, finding the right forms and even advising on how to approach the whole matter in job interviews.
:) Ironically, the reason for a legal marriage long before we've saved up to put on an actual full-scale wedding would be so she can have health insurance, not for me to get a green card, but that's another story....
What it boiled down to is that I happen to be from what appears to be the only country in the world where you're not eligible for the Diversity Lottery (aka "green card lottery"), England. So even though I had been here long enough to probably have gotten one that way, I wasn't allowed. However, students here on an F1 visa are permitted to apply for 12 months of Optional Practical Training. If you're smart, you take those 12 months _after_ completing your degree. Then if you're lucky, you'll get hired by a company willing to sponsor you for a change to an H1B visa before your 12 months runs out.
It was more complicated in my case, since I had very little notice that I was going to be able to graduate. So there were a few months of not being able to work while I waited for my OPT to be approved. But at the same time, I had those few months to look for work without wasting any of the 12 month period. Oh, and here's the catch: you have to be employed doing something relevant to your field of study.
As an H1B is only valid for up to 6 years, you again have to rely on the charity of your employer to further sponsor you for a green card. I got lucky there again - the week before I started work, the company lawyers started the ball rolling on both my H1B and green card at the same time. The paperwork for the H1B was in long before the Oct 1st start of the new fiscal year, so I should have one before they run out, some time in Jan. or Feb. (fingers crossed).
In short, tell your students to enter the Diversity Lottery each and every year they can. Get help from your International Studies/Students' Office, and fill out _all_ of the required paperwork in plenty of time. Try to time your 12 months of OPT for when you can be fully employed, hopefully impressing your employer so that they'll help you with the H1B process.
Or get married to a US citizen. I'm doing that, too
I read through the comments here and had a bit of a chuckle...
I'm an American born-and-bred citizen working in London on a UK work permit. I've taken a path different from much of the world, taking the opportunity to work outside the US. Why was it so appealing?
Free travel across Europe was one of the reasons, I can't deny it. New Jersey just doesn't tend to strike most Americans as a worldly experience, and I've seen things during my limited business trips which are memories which I'll always have... but that's a digression.
I work as a systems engineer in the Internet field. I've worked with the systems of some of the US's largest media and financial companies. The dot-com explosion started slowing, and I was looking for a new challenge.
Start-up has become a term which has gotten to the "oh, not another one of those" stage. I didn't go to a start-up, but in Europe, anything within the Internet arena has that feel. I'm here to build something where there was nothing. Yes, my schooling was in the US, as was much of my experience. To deny it would be foolish. But for everyone to think that the entirety of the computer related industry is American is ludicrous. There is boundless opportunity outside the US. While Europe (for the most part) is behind the US in 'net culture and last-mile, there are thousands of kilometers of fiber run by Level 3, Global Crossings, GTS, and many others. Power is a bit of an issue, to be sure. The French government's decision that it shall be illegal to have an employee work more than 35 hours per week, well... that's "un-American" and causes me to wonder how they manage to produce anything besides tourism...
...but there are endless opportunities outside the US. Opportunities like those that came and went already in the US. Opportunities to build... and they're not above hiring foreigners to do it. The US is not the only place to go.
Just my 2.
-Nev
Have them start by reading How to Get a Green Card: Legal Ways to Stay in the U.S.A.
The second book on your list should be U.S. Immigration Made Easy
Some others that my useful in some situations:
Ho w to Become a United States Citizen
Nolo press provides step by step guides to everyday legal tasks. Any topic flooded with posts stating IANAL should be repeatedly referred to Nolo.
~~ What's stopping you?
Remember that Boston Tea Party gig? Taxation without representation? Guess what happens when you're a furrriner in the United States. Taxed without any representation.)
Well you DONT have to be here. I don't mind non-US nationals coming here. I myself want to leave the US and go overseas but its that damn 4 year degree that gets in my way
Of course you are an *anonymous* schmuck. Why do half ass wannabe racists always sound so pathetic?
So maybe I can do all the *good jobs* better than you. Or is that the problem? In this case you're *protecting* something you'll never have (by default).
Not that I'm ever going to move to the US...
Sieg
that's actually what I'm doing. that's exactly the one we filed for. form -129f, petition for alien fiance visa. It takes about 4 forevers for it to find its way through the process. I don't object to the process taking its necessary time-- I'm not the only one doing this process-- but I do object to their losing and mishandling of paperwork that draws the process out longer.
A host is a host from coast to coast, but no one uses a host that's close
I don't really object to the process taking the necessary time.
I object to the mishandling of paperwork that allows it to get lost, hear denials about how the forms were never recieved when I'm holding the notice of receipt from them in my hands, and have them magically reappear months later, only to then hear denials about how nothing was ever lost,
because they don't lose things.
A host is a host from coast to coast, but no one uses a host that's close
Marrying for the green card is fraud.
Normally, I am not an enemy of trying to obfuscate the government.
But I'm engaged to marry a non-techie Israeli.
I'm filling out forms day and night, and because they are so suspicious of fraud, it makes it harder.
SO QUIT ENCOURAGING FRAUD, it spoils it for the rest of us who really *want* to get married.
Stupid geeks, trying to subvert the system by fraud. It's like being a Script Kiddie, only Real-Life (TM)
.
A host is a host from coast to coast, but no one uses a host that's close
Have you fought immigration and won on this??
I was living and working in Israel for the past two years and came back to my job in the States. I'm a US citizen. My fiance` is Israeli.
The hell that immigration has put us through, petitioning for an alien fiance` visa and getting that visa issues has been a nightmare.
The INS is so afraid that people will marry for the greencard and not for legit reasons, that they treat you like a criminal, threating 5 years in jail and $250,000 fines.
And she can't come to the states until the whole process is over, but I have to be here to file half the paperwork. It's extremely frustrating to be forced by the Govt. to be separated for the past three months.
more than this, if you try and come as an illegal, or on a tourist visa and get married, and file for change of status, they deport and jump at the chance to do the 5 years in jail and $250000 dollar fine....
If I'm lucky I'll be able to see my fiance' again in another month.
A host is a host from coast to coast, but no one uses a host that's close
Explain to your students that they don't have to love that fat geek with the strange body-odor, as long as they stay married long enough to get the green card, everything will be fine... :)
Why would anyone want to get married?
Generally, an F-1 does allow a year's employment post-grad, and the easiest way to ensure success is to go to on-campus job fairs and try to secure a job based on the F-1, and negotiate a transition to H-1 when you have a chance. H-1b's had the unfortunate restriction that it was tied to a given job, and that if you lost the job, even through no fault of your own, you had to try to get another one from a new employer. If you were laid off or fired, then you have so little time you may as well just pack your bags. Lastly, if a green card was your final goal, the clock started over. This was the equivalent as indentured servitude.
It's my understanding that H1's are now transferrable between employers, but I have not substantiated that rumor.
There are so many variables involved that it is impossible to give sound, accurate advice without knowing the case history of a given person. In addition, the laws change almost as frequently as the seasons, so always check with a reputable immigration attourney.
Lastly, in the early '90's congress got tired of people marrying for green cards, so that is no longer good enough. DO NOT get married. It is NOT a ticket to permanent residancy anymore. Depending on the INS official, they will either say, "that's nice, what else have you got?" or "that's nice. Go home."
I get the two mixed up ... but either he F-1 or J-1 visa comes with permission to work one year outside of the academic institution as part of "practical training."
The mistake I see a lot among friends and colleagues is that they (the potential immigrants) use up this year of practical training during the course of their study, rather than saving it until the end. I know it's very tempting, especially as a tech student in a hot high-tech community (such as S.V.), to cash in the year for some serious pocket money ... but in the long-run, life is much easier if you save the practical training.
The year of practical training can be used as a bridge between the student visa and a work visa. Despite the recent shortage, a serious employer can usually obtain a H1B for an employee if given a year. The problem (as noted in other posts above) is when employers have to scramble to get one. Remember, most people graduate at around the same time. So if you are looking for a H1B around May-June ... chances are, so are a lot of other graduates.
Avoid the possiblility of having to "sit out" of work for months or even deportation ... save the year of practical training!
The corporations do NOT benefit from HB-1 visas. Only temp agencies do. Corporations are paying $100-150/hr for contractors. Permanent employees are what everyone wants, and can't get.
My $0.02 will always be worth more than your â0.02, so
You are misguided in your assumption that student visas are granted for such philanthropic reasons. Do you really think that only students who are unable to attend university in their own country are the ones admitted to American universities? I had my choice of universities to attend in England (yes including Oxford and Cambridge) yet I still came to America to study. US universities are eager to attract the best students regardless of national origin.
The truth is that America has a surplus of college-level institutions most of which operate like a business. It is in their best interests to admit foreign students who are guaranteed to pay full tuition and in general are likely to the best students from their respective nation. Then they can say that they admitted foreign students to increase diversity or grant disadvantaged foreigners an opportunity for education. If these were the goals shouldn't there be tuition breaks or a multitude of scholarships for foreign nationals (I assure you that this is not the case)? The reality is that the almighty dollar is the bottom line and you bought into the bullshit which your institution has been feeding you.
Solaristrum: One who has spent way too long staring at the Sun
Expect to be REALLY exploited. Canada has no law saying foreigners MUST be paid equivalent to citizen wages, which explains the body shops.
The social programs and health care is a total fraud to justify higher taxes, they don't fund it, if you've a booboo on your finger they'll patch it, need heart surgery, the waiting list is years.
And 60% of your income will go in taxes, and you'll be paid in a worthless currency.
I support Canadians like myself being able to move to the USA. The Prime Minister himself told us if we didn't like Canada we were welcome to f off. Consider me f'd off.
--- Jump!! Fire!! Bullet time!! - Lego version of the Matrix
Student visas do not expire upon graduation. Every Student is allowed one year of what is called the optional practical training visa. Your International Office should advise them on this. During the ensuing year [The OPT lasts 365 days -Uncle Sam is very serious about that] you should advice the student to start looking for the H-1 visa if they desire. With a years experience they stand a better chance of becoming an asset to the company. Furthermore they can always apply to graduate school which automatically extends their F-1 [student visa]. This will give them time to look for work elsewhere. If all else fails tell them to spend the last year courting the nice American lasses in the school and propose after the OPT expires.
is this band?
Unfortunately, the path to becoming a citizen (for most people) starts with getting a visa to work. The next step is to become a "Permanent Resident" (aka greencard holder). Only after you have had a greencard for 5+ years can you apply to become a citizen.
And BTW: the INS is taking upto 2 years to process citizenship applications! If you feel that people should be becoming citizens, ask the INS to speed up processing!
Can't you read into the message? We don't want or need any more freeloaders of your kind!
What boat of free loaders did your parents, grand parents or great-grand parents come in on?
And for what, I may ask? For Congress to pass legislation baring me from claiming Social Security benifits that I rightly contributed to? For illiterate morons to tell me to go home? There isn't anything much more insulting that I could possiblly think of.
Let's have a quick review of the facts, while we're at it. The atom bomb, jet engines, rockets, and C++ were all made possible by foreigners living in the United States.
British, German, and Canadian scientists worked along side Americans developing the atom bomb. Jet engines were invented in Britain, perfected in Germany, and brought here by Germans. Captured German scientists built rockets for the United States. Bjanrne Stroustrup shure wasn't born here, either.
The way I look at it, America get a lot out of us aliens. We put our blood, sweat and tears into this country, and more often than not, we get shafted by small minded idiots like yourself.
Slashdot always looked like a bright, fair minded group of individuals, but I guess there's always a rotten apple somewhere.
gee...sounds like flatpacks H1B is going to expire soon. GOOD. Get the FUCK out of my country.
Ah yes, a fine example of why this country is no longer the shining beacon of intelligence and creativity it once was. Since I am an American citizen, and have lived here for more years than the 15 or so you appear to possess, I think I know a little more than you do about the decline of this great nation.
Freeloading foreigners taking money out of MY pocket, and food out of other hard working americans families mouths. GTFoff your high horse flatpack, no REAL RED BLOODED american would share your opinion.
And how are these H1B people taking the food out of the mouths of Americans? If this country had enough intelligent people and employers willing to consider their staff then we wouldn't have any need for H1Bs here would we? The people "taking the food out of other hard working americans families mouths" are Americans more interested in the latest football scores than in doing hard work.
Red blooded American indeed. Your xenophobia proves my point all too well.
And the IRS is nothing more than a den of armed robbers which, after the federal government managed to get the 16th Amendment passed though congress, was formed to turn honest Americans into little more than whores for the Government. We never needed income tax until the IRS was formed.
The sheer ignorance of your stance is typical of the current end product of American education - shallow "thinkers" who have read the first paragraph of a Nietzche book and then think that they are qualified to comment on topics which they, having been tought revisionist crap that has little relation to reality, have absolutely no clue about!
What this country needs is better education and less idiots like you.
The US's greatness as a country comes from all the immigrantas that have gone there. If you don't believe me please go to your the PhDs departartments of your local University, I am sure that at least 45% of the students are not US born. I live in Panama and just last month the US ambassy was offering visas to go to work in the US in Computer Science field.
Please tell your students that if they cannot stay in the US good CS can get a job any where in the world..
Just look at how many of your science TAs are americans, that will give you a hint. Simply said, graduate students are very low paid high quality teachers
You've got to be kidding me...high quality teachers? Do you know how many recitations I have skipped completely in my college career because
1) I can't understand what they are saying or
2) they read word for word out of the book or lecture notes.
These "high quality teachers" are not that, but just brought over as "high quality lab bitches" to carry out their prof's research on a cheap budget, just like every other grad student. Teaching is just there to convenience the school.
"good roads"?? You call those pothole-ridden stretches of bumpy concrete "good roads"? You really should visit Europe some day. Try the "autoroute du soleil" in France for example. Now THAT'S a good road.
Contrary to popular redneck belief, knowing how to spell "AOL" is not enough to work in Silicon Valley.
Naah, I vote we find out where all the kkk and aryan nation members' ancestors came from, then send 'm back there...
What would be the best way for them to go about getting a green card, especially if any possible corporate sponsorship is in doubt?
1. Find blonde.
2. Kiss blonde's ass.
3. Marry blonde.
`
Warning: It is a federal offense to impersonate The President.
Foreign workers come and spend money, pay taxes (that fund this military) - in short, they create additional wealth.
Thirdly, non-citizens are not allowed to actually join the military. Speaking as one of your filthy, stinking, rotten foreigners, I would actually like to join the Air Force but I am forbidden from doing so.
(At the end of the day, I'm going back home - at least my home isn't some third world country like some of these guys who are going to get shipped back to poverty). At least I have the right to defend freedom and democracy and even vote back home. Remember that Boston Tea Party gig? Taxation without representation? Guess what happens when you're a furrriner in the United States. Taxed without any representation.)
Oolite: Elite-like game. For Mac, Linux and Windows
OK.. I was two sec. from openen the can of Woop-ass and then I realized that this comment needs no retort. Your envy and jealousy are apparent in your comment. as always and for a long time to come.. "USA OWNS you" Please keep your country bashing to small less developed countries.
-- Disclaimer: I can't really back up anything I post on
If you do, you're nothing but a common criminal and should be punished as one.
--trb
as a midwesterner, i can confirm your observation that employers tend to be ignorant about sponsoring a work visa.but, they LOVE to hire cheap labor.english speaking is not neccesary.
but, when do we who are the backbone of this economy get to train and be prepared for the future?
i can almost hear management say,"can't keep these folks on the farm anymore. they want to learn stuff. gotta hire me some people i can keep in line"
so a thread of resentment is to be expected by the citizens. we want to grow. foriegn workers undercut our growth.
it's like the horny husband buying the sex because there's no commitment involved. while the mate has invested in the relationship he enjoys domestically, and is being ignored.
They love college graduates from other countries, in my experience working for them this is what I have found: 1.) They promote non-American people faster, due to the leverage that they have with visa/green card status. Typically the American's have self-esteem and pride, which get in the way of managements control. 2.) It gives them a global look. "See if you need more consultants we can get qualified Java programmers from our Botswana Unit office!" 3.) They can pay them lower wages, and still look good in the employees eyes. "Your manager is making three times less than you, and doing twice the work, our profit margin has not looked so good at 66%."
I have worked in the U.S. for 3 years with a H1B visa. I am paid the same as the locals doing the same tech support jobs for Tandem computers - $60K for a 40 hr week with rotating on call. Decent money for an area that doesn't have sky high housing prices. My employer has had open positions for the whole time I have been here that they can't fill. Last time I looked on the Internet there were 40 job openings I could step into, except most of them say 'W2 only' because INS is such a pain in the ass for the employers to deal with. My employer submitted my visa renewal for the 4th year. The Vermont regional INS processing center rejected the application because they said the beneficiary could not pay the full amount and only the company was allowed to pay the $500 surcharge (imposed by Congress when they upped the H1B allotment), then rejected it again because they said a form was missing (it was stapled to the checks), and now they say they have no record of receiving the application and we have to start all over. Atlanta and Dallas INS processing centers are supposed to be worse than Vermont.
First... Why are all the Americans so proud of their country ??? At the end of the day america always was a mixed up society, this country was simply colonized using brutal power...Tell stuff about your country to the indians who till this day live in modern version of the concentration camps-reservats, created by goverment.
As to the level of developement, coments about runing water etc. Well America owes its developement because it's so far away...since north-south war, there were no bigger conflicts in the USA itself not counting americas 'poking the nose in others nations internal problems' actions.
And third thing, what is a country ?? a piece of land surrounded by unnatural borders to whom some people feel special just because they have been imprinted so as the children. This 'nationalism', economical issues...who gives a damn. You do something because it's economicly correct ??? or coz it's good ??? or what ? . I don't live in usa and have no intentions to go there.
Anyway that kind of dicussion haven't got much sense since no one will accept the others arguments...
Compliments.
Spiryt aka Szymon Kosecki
P.S. Sorry for my english, not my native language
In order to estimate the odds of obtaining permanent residency via the F-1 : OPT : H-1B : EAD/485 : GC route, this report on the H-1B population is highly recommended reading. One conclusion is that less than 25,000 H-1B holders will adjust to GC in any given year assuming there are no backlogs.
In practice far fewer will get GC's due to backlogged Labor Certification and Adjustment of Status (485 processing) queues. Recall that over 1999-2003, between 95,000 and 115,000 H-1B's will be issued annually. (In 1999 the INS accidentally issued 20,000 more H-1B visas than the quota allowed.) There is a Senate bill to increase this to 195,000 and it has bipartisan support.
Employment based GC's are capped at 140,000 annually. Due to backlogs, only about half are actually used. Of this number, many will go to H-4 visa holders (wife and children of the H-1B worker). There are also O-1 and P visa categories that compete for these same visas -- how else do you attract foreign actors, musicians and athletes to work in the US? H-1B's will get whatever is left over.
Democrats strongly support the restoration of clause 245i of the Immigration and Naturalization Act(1990). This rule, which expired in 1996, allows undocumented aliens to apply for permanent residency provided they pay a fee of US$1000. In the month before 245i expired, thousands of aliens entered the Labor Certification queue (the first stage of the Green Card process) seriously backlogging the INS. Expect the H-1B piece of the pie to shrink further in the immediate future.
This is incorrect. You keep the same H-1B visa for the new job but it has to be transferred. This does not count against the H-1B quota
It explains why the program is so easy to abuse by unscrupulous companies. There are also some interesting statistics: In 1998 only 13,000 H-1B's were adjusted to Green Card status, yet 65,000 H-1B visas were issued that year.
The quota is likely to rise to 195,000 next year.
Can you say "Idiot".
Just b/c the whole continent was not unified under one government, and they didn't (actually I should say don't) believe in the exact same things that you or I do does not make them backwards.
And even if the statement that they are backwards were true, it doesn't legitimate the genocide of many peoples.
Another thing, most people who join the military have one of the following reasons:
1) They need the money (I know quite a few young men who dropped out of college b/c of lack of scholarship money and enlisted. From good schools too, Northwestern and Northern Arizona at Flagstaff are the two that come to mind right now.)
2) They are truly patriotic. Not me, but some people. Personally I think that this country is really fucked up. But it could be worse so I won't complain too much.
3) They want a cool job. My father wanted to be a pilot (specifically he wanted to be a helicopter pilot, that turned into being a CSAR (Combat Search And Rescue) H60 pilot, squadron commander, and now a deputy wing commander.)
They want something to get them through college, and then get enough experiencde to do really well for themselves in private industry. Actually, that would be most fixed wing pilots, doctors, quite a few others. It sounds like you fall into this one as well. Since you only stayed in for 10 years.
Now that I have ranted on and on. Don't be such an isolationist ass-hole. This country has gone through periods in the past where it was isolationist. But that was in the past. We are now too powerful and too big to continue to think along those lines. If you can't see this then you might try looking past the end of your nose. Our purpose is not to conquer, but to help. And if you can still remember any of the doctrine you were taught in basic training you would know this.
Alright, I'm done for now. Before you post anything again think about what you are saying. I'm tired of people like you making the rest of this country and the military look like a bunch of idiots.
I was in this position about 2 years ago, only worse. I wasn't even in Sweden, I just visited it for holiday; Being a student in the US will make it easier. I fell in love and decided to move there. Once I got back to the US I contacted both the US and Swedish consolate nearest me and began the process. You can find a list of every consolate / embassy here.
Most of the consolates have not only information regarding emigrating to their country, but online assistants and quick-references for making the process very simple.
It basically goes like this:
1. Contact the US consolate and inform them you wish to immigrate.
2. Fill out the paperwork they will send you and return it to them, including your passport.
3. Return to your country to await processing. (You usually must return to your country, but that was in my case. If you are already here for school there may be an exception.)
4. Interview with the US consolate in your home country, or if you can stay in the US during the process, with the nearest US immigration office.
5. About 4-6 weeks later you will receive word.
It was a very simple process only requiring an hour or so of paper work and 1 *stress free* meeting with the Swedish consolate. Basically it's as simple as this. You all are geeks, geeks are in demand, you can easily emigrate to the US and most other countries.
Anyway, Good luck!
Regards
I coded the link fine, I pressed preview and it looked fine, I then posted it. Slashdot's bloody preview text box messed up the spacing of my end hyperlink tag. Sorry again.
Regards
...to get the fuck out of my country!
Canadians exempted. I like them.
H1B visas were explicitly changed six years ago to become a first step for skill-based immigration. And they are generally not "slave labor"--H1B workers are generally paid at equivalent levels to US workers.
The primary problem with the current immigration system is the inefficient and inequitable administration by the INS. And US citizens should be up in arms about that because the US benefits greatly from the foreign workers that come here.
Thus, the thing to do is apply for it well before you finish. You can apply for it up to 120 days before that date, and 60 days afterwards. Finishing is counted as when you complete your final requirements (for PhD students, usually when you get that final signature for your dissertation).
If you time things right, the INS will place your application in a filing cabinet for the usual 90 days, then send the EAD card back to you, and you'll get it in time to start working as soon as you've finished the degree. No hanging around waiting for a company to apply for an H1-B visa for you, and then for the INS to sit on it for a number of months. With the optional practical training, you then have 12 months of work time to get an H1-B, some other visa, or decide to leave the country.
See http://www-oie.studentaffairs.cmu.edu/OIE/students /employment/index.shtml for the complete rundown.
Unfortunately, I didn't find out about this until late in the game, so I'm in the position of waiting on the INS's filing cabinets for a month or two. Fuckers.
Andrew
Hmmm..., "Anonymous Coward" posted these remarks ? I have a better name for you: "Anonymous Coward Racist Pig". No hard feelings, just more accurate...
That's true, but the same goes for the native americans: some are real good people, while others are trash. So, your argument is null.
A previous poster pointed out that it is possible to work for 1 year after your student visa expires. That's true. Getting a work visa is harder than it seems at first glance. Many employers (especially in MidWest America) are either unwilling to sponsor a work visa, or actually just don't know HOW! Yeah, I know that most of the "tech work" is on the West Coast, but do you know how much free tech work is available in the Midwest? Everyone's moving to the coast... there's lots of open positions... but no-one to fill them... and no employers who know a thing about visas!!! The only companies that DO visas in my experience tend to be the bigger ones... and trust me... if you're on a sponsorship then they don't pay you worth a damn! Sucks, but that's how it seems to work! I know all this from experience I'm afraid... but I guess it could be worse :)
Hang on - this is the ignoramus point of view... without being rude, it's impossible for somebody to live in a country without putting something into it!
They've got to eat; they go down to the shop, they buy (possibly US) products from a US store, putting US kids in a job. They put their money into a US bank account (it's very hard to get an employer to pay money into an overseas bank account) which the banks use to loan to US businesses.
They buy into the US stockmarket, helping to finance R & D for the US economy.
These people CREATE jobs for Americans... they don't take them away.
This is an argument that has been raging on Down Under and is one that I think is ridiculous... as long as the immigrants have some money and a decent education, plus speak the language, the country is getting a FREE ride out of them!
does it make you feel guilty? guess so, why else would you be defending yourself?
Those "freeloading" aliens come here, do not cost us a single penny in public schooling, pay exorbitant tuition fees, and eventually work and pay taxes just like everyone else, the difference is: they're entitled to nearly nothing in social benefits, although they are net contributors into the system (compare that with someone like "you" who has already cost the US a large bundle in public schooling and university subsidies).
And, when they go to work, they are at serious disadvantage because of the various laws and regulations that control their life in the US. So, if one of them takes "your" job, and the employer is willing to put up with all the INS and Labor Department crap that's involved (such as insuring that the alien is getting paid the prevailing wage), it's because these aliens have something to offer that "you" don't have.
In 18 years as a professor I haven't had a SINGLE non-US citizen Ph.D. student who has NOT stayed in the US. Many of my former students are working for companies whose first response is "we don't hire without a green card." I don't have a problem with it. If there were enough interest by US citizens in graduate study we wouldn't get predominantly non-US applicants. How do they do it? I don't know. I would encourage students to use the grapevine-check with recent graduates that have been in the same position. (old) white guy
Really, the people in this country are EXTREMELY open and accepting of "outsiders." Much more so than the reception I've seen Americans get when visiting other countries.
I'm sorry but this is nothing like my experience. I lived for the last four years here in the states and I haven't found many people I can honestly call 'accepting'. Unless you define accepting as someone who acknoledges that you are sitting or walking by his side and reacts with funny faces at your accent and treat you as stupid because you can't pronounce ruler.
BTW, have you lived outside the US? Do you know by your own experience how it feels? Or do you know by what the news tell you about some americans that were booed in some far away country?
Unless you have lived somewhere else you don't have a way of knowing how americans are treated or how it feels to live in a country that you are taxed but have no representation (wait a minute, wasn't that the reason that started the independence war?).
Try this: http://canada-ny.org/immigration/html/index.htm It took me only 11 months to get the Canadian permanent residence papers in NYC while I was a grad student in the US (I now live in Montreal). And these are merit-based, regardless of the country of origin or race. Besides, you don't need lawyers at all ! Your immigration will be much easier and with more dignity than in the USA. And life here is just better. There are two ways: via Quebec and via the federal program. The former is twice as fast.
A list of TN-eligible jobs (the list includes management consultant, technical writer, computer systems analyst...) is available at http://www.grasmick.com/nafta.htm. This guy's site has much useful immigration info, including a page devoted to IT professionals, but is mostly geared towards Canadians wanting to work in the US.
I worked with a guy still using his visa from his Masters degree. He didn't ask our employer about changing his status in sufficient time. His H1 petition started after the INS had reached their annual cap. My friend had to sit out of work for a month or two whilst he waited for the H1 petition to process. He was lucky: his wife was already on an H1; he didn't have to leave and wait out the H1 process in his home country.
The easiest way to get a green card is to marry a US citizen. This is well known, even cliche. What is not well known is that processing a change of status to permanent resident while living in the US takes an obscene amount of time. My wife is a Chilean citizen, and she has been waiting over 2 1/2 years for a green card interview, with no end in sight. During that time she can work, but not leave the US even to visit a sick relative.
As far as I can tell this is due to the fact that the INS deals mostly with non-citizens so no one with voting power cares about the efficiency of service. One would think that efficiently processing those who can stay and efficiently deporting those who can not would benefit both sides, but this is not the way things work. The INS is by far the most inefficient government agency in the US.
If however, you marry a US citizen outside the US, the initial stages are handled through the US State Department and the process can be quite swift. ~6 mo rather than ~3 years.
--
"L'IT c'est moi!"
I saw nothing in that post that warrants the "racist" label. He was simply making the point that if people want to enjoy the benefits of living in this country, then they should be expected to accept the downside as well. Take the good with the bad.
You don't have to agree with it, but it's certainly a point of view worthy of discussion.
And not at all racist.
First of all, you can change jobs provided you can persuade your new company to get you an H1B.
Yes, and then you only have to wait 3 or 4 months... if you're lucky.
Second, most people I know who work on H1Bs have an understanding with the company that after a couple of years, the company will sponsor that person for a green card.
Anyone with an H1B who wants to get a greencard better start the application process earlier than "after a couple of years". The greencard process typically takes 4-5 years. H1Bs only last 3 years, and you can only get one renewal, hence you've only got 6 years.
But of course most companies are more than happy to sponsor a greencard, because your application will be cancelled if you leave the company. Given the time constraints, you can't very easily apply for a greencard at another company, so you're pretty much stuck.
There are plenty of places where you work 9-to-5 (e.g. most government jobs, by the way).
I'm fairly certain that non-US citizens can't get jobs in the US government.
You are making a bargain: your time for money. If you don't like the terms, do not agree to the bargain.
I think his complaint had to do with the fact that H1B workers typically work longer hours for equal or even lower pay than American workers. Of course, any thinking American would be angry about this as well. After all, if companies can get immigrants to work harder for less money than Americans, there's a pretty strong incentive for these companies to hire immgrants rather than Americans, isn't there?
Looking out for your own interests, wouldn't it be better if there weren't any artificial advantages to hiring non-American workers? In particular, shouldn't American companies be forced to pay them the same wages, and shouldn't they (the foreign workers) be able to change jobs as easily as Americans? If this isn't the case (and it isn't), you end up with American companies preferring foreigners, because they're cheaper, do more work, and they're effectively "locked in" for the term of their visa. It's no wonder that high-tech companies would rather hire foreigners than Americans who only work 40 hours/week, demand raises, and leave if they don't get what they want...
If H1B workers and greencard applicants could switch jobs anywhere near as easily as American workers, I guarantee that the H1B quotas wouldn't even be reached the following year. High tech companies would start hiring Americans first, and only hiring H1B workers when they needed to. Is't that the way it should be?
Well, generally speaking, if you are not an American you cannot come live here at all. That is normal and it is as it should be. If you don't think so, try thinking through the consequences of allowing completely open immigration.
I'm not sure how you define "completely open". I certainly think immigration in the US coul be a lot more open than it is, and be better for Americans and "aliens" alike.
Besides, what have you done that makes you deserve special treatment? You were born here? Who cares? You are aware that alien workers (the INS term) pay taxes and social security, right?
Besides, isn't it strange: if US sucks so much, why so many people are willing to spend great effort and accept huge risks for a chance of living here?
Don't worry, the INS's policies are making the environment hostile enough that soon all of the high-tech companies will leave, or just hire people to do development overseas. Won't that be great for the American economy...
Maybe the 'War on Drugs' should start attacking rogue government departments?
... and today's pet project has
Come on !!! Do you really think student visas are there to help students from foreign countries have a better (=American???) education? Let me clarify a few things for you, and show you why your assertion makes very little sense:
First thing, the price of higher education in the US. For the price of any US degree, any foreign student could probably afford 10 such degrees in a foreign country, so your poor foreign student better be wealthy if he wants to finance his US studies on his own.
Quality then? Well, having done my undergrad studies in Europe, and being a grad student/teacher in the US, I have had the opportunity to compare the quality of the education of my (foreign) collegues with the one offered to my (american) students. The difference is striking. Because most US universities are run like businesses, they almost guarantee a degree to anyone doing a minimum of work, which means almost no selection in the courses, and a very low level. I think it is also commomly accepted that high school education in the US is of very low level compared to many other countries, and that might be a factor as well.
Anyway, so, according to my observations, and people I have met, I would say that the best undergraduate education (for sciences at least) comes from India and Europe (Eastern and Western).
So why would the US want to give out student visas? According to me, to keep the level of their schools up. Americans don't want to go to Graduate School, so it is not unusual to see graduate departments be filled with foreign students. Just look at how many of your science TAs are americans, that will give you a hint. Simply said, graduate students are very low paid high quality teachers, and when selected carefully, increase the quality of the research at the school.
And why would I come study in the US if the quality of education is so much better in my home country? Well, I said UNDERGRADUATE education. Graduate education in the US is of very good quality, because US universities have a lot more money to put into it, and the best students from all over the world come to the US to get a graduate degree.
And after you've been living here for 4 years, working on some degree, isn't it normal you might consider staying?
-- Slef
The USA is a much bigger place. Also a lot of Americans take jobs in foreign countries so the flux is always going on. Open borders make it easier for foreigners to live here and us to live there. Ever been to the midwest? There is plenty of space. I think we should let anyone that isn't a criminal and doesn't have a serious transmitable disease (except for medical care) into this country. Sure we may have to bite the bullet for one generation (worst case) but if our schools are decent then their children will grow up and contribute new ideas and new culture into our country and keep it fresh and alive. Making one person better than another based on where they were born is no better than by gender, race, religion, or sexual orientation.
At what price learning? At what cost wisdom? The price is a man's peace of mind, and the cost is his life.
Watching the third party debates on tv the other day and then clips from Bore and Gush.. err Gore and Bush.. I think I've decided at least I won't vote for any Democrat or Republican.
If you really want to get rid of stupid government programs then vote Libertarian. They sound like they want to just Nix everything off the list. It's a good plan for getting oneself killed as a newly elected President but other than that it'd get rid of such programs as the NSA and woo even the INS. If there is no INS then it's way to hard to keep people out of our country so you have pretty much open borders.
At what price learning? At what cost wisdom? The price is a man's peace of mind, and the cost is his life.
I hope you are joking, i didn't believe that there actually where americans still thinking usa is "the best country in the world"...
;)
/Daniel
yep, i've probably managed get a couple of grammatical errors in there, but you'll probably understand anyway...
Of course you have advantages to most countries in some ways, mostly because of the massive ammount of money in circulation, but i would definitely not say that "the whole purpose of the student visa was give foreign students who couldn't attend college in their home country a place to learn", most of the swedes I know who go to college in the us does it as a complement to their swedish education, mostly to get better at english and to be enabled to put international experience on their resumés. The us should definitely look over their immigration rules, a lot of people over here can't get a green card and go over there to work, this could damage the future development of as there _is_ good talent in other countries than the us (just look at linux, nokia, ericsson, mercedes benz, bmw, volvo etc. all european companies/products (ok, some of them bought, but you see what i'm pointing at...)
btw, you should keep in mind that the largest reason us colleges accept foreign students is that they want them to stay and work in the us. This isn't some kind of charity, it would be stupid to educate people and then send them away. One of swedens largest problems with foreign students is that they come here, take their education and then leave the country to work elsewhere - you can't get any work or money out of them that way - can you ?
I am paid the same as the locals
I'm glad you've had a positive experience. However, anecdotal evidence, while not false, does not refute the general case. This is similar to an 103-year-old man who says he's smoked a pack of cigarettes and drunk a quart of whiskey every day since he was 16 - it ignores the lung cancer and licer disease that affects most people who engage in similar behavior.
doing the same tech support jobs for Tandem
Nothing personal, but do you really think your company needed to go outside the US to find workers who were qualified? Do you think it's possible that they could have retained the workers they had that have left? Do you think they could have recruited more people? Do you think they could have trained high school graduates to do the same work? I do; I worked in tech support for three years, and unless you're doing some REALLY high speed stuff, it can be done quickly and easily by anyone with a brain.
even if you get an H1B you end up stuck in the same job for your entire period and then get kicked out the country like an illegal immegrant.
Bullshit. First of all, you can change jobs provided you can persuade your new company to get you an H1B. Second, most people I know who work on H1Bs have an understanding with the company that after a couple of years, the company will sponsor that person for a green card. Yes, that works, I know a few people that did exactly this thing and they are now green card holders (or already citizens).
What other country in the world lets it's citizens work 90 hour weeks without a single hour of overtime?
Oh, spare me this crap. First of all, what do you mean "allows"? Do you want laws prohibiting your from working more than X hours per week? Second, there is a standard solution: Don't do it, then! If you don't like 90-hour-a-week jobs, don't work there. There are plenty of places where you work 9-to-5 (e.g. most government jobs, by the way). Oh, you say, but I like the pay and the options! Well, then, don't complain. You are making a bargain: your time for money. If you don't like the terms, do not agree to the bargain.
the whole reason for H1Bs is to get foreigners here to do those 90 hour weeks
So would you rather shut down this program altogether?
if you're not an American, you can only come here if you're willing to live like a second class citizen.
Well, generally speaking, if you are not an American you cannot come live here at all. That is normal and it is as it should be. If you don't think so, try thinking through the consequences of allowing completely open immigration.
Besides, isn't it strange: if US sucks so much, why so many people are willing to spend great effort and accept huge risks for a chance of living here?
Kaa
Kaa
Kaa's Law: In any sufficiently large group of people most are idiots.
First of all, there are two different kinds of student visas -- the "F" ones and the "J" ones. The difference is that after an F visa you can go straight into an H1B program, or win a green card in a lottery, or get married to a US citizen, etc. However after a J visa you have to spend at least two years outside the US in order to become eligible for H1B/lottery/etc. Thus, it's considerably harder to stay in the US if you have a J visa (but not impossible, I know people who did it).
Second, to stay in the US you can: (1) apply for political asylum; (2) win a green card lottery; (3) get a work visa. All methods work (obviously, not for everybody and not all the time).
Generally, to get a work visa you need to find an employer who wants you so much that he is willing to jump through INS hoops to get you. Jumping through these hoops in not particularly hard, but it's a hassle. It's common for the company to agree to sponsor you for a green card one-two years down the road. I wouldn't go work for a company which would refuse to do this. It's not a legal obligation, but there is understanding that if they don't do this you'll leave.
In any case, staying in the US after a student visa is hard but definitely possible.
Kaa
Kaa
Kaa's Law: In any sufficiently large group of people most are idiots.
Tell the students to be upfront when applying to a company. Ask what the company's policy is on hiring and sponsoring foreigners. If the company doesn't do that sort of thing (my current customer site won't touch foreigners), then move on.
There's lots of companies out there wanting talent, and your students have it. I know one student from Caclutta who had no problems getting hired by a large corporation. He finishes his degree in the spring and will start immediately after that, but the company has already flown him out twice for interviews and orientation. They're sponsoring him, and providing legal assistance.
Imagine if Einstein had remained in Germany and was forced to work on the Atomic bomb under Nazi rule...
I'm a leaf on the wind. Watch how I soar.
Most important: find a foreigner-friendly company. If a company has the processes in place to support foreign workers, your life will be much easier. This usually means that they won't mind hiring you in the training period of the F-1, that they will offer to file the H-1B and later do the Labor Certification for a Green Card. CAVEAT: a *lot* of the foreigner-friendly companies out there are H-1B slave-shops that will dangle the LCA and the Green Card in front of you for as long as they can while they'll pay you a 1/2-1/3 of the average in your position. Be especially careful when they are located in places without a kick-ass job market...
There are ways around the H-1B and the LCA: multinational companies can hire you out of a European, say, subsidiary and bring you back in the country with an L-1 or even a visitor's visa. Some off-shore contracting firms can bring you to work in the US while paying you in the home country. In this case you are not stuck in the LCA process (which can be brutal, long (2-3 yrs) and during which you really can't leave your employer unless you start all over again) but you will be stuck with the lower salary anyway, and you are not gonna get that Green Card...
If you qualify (i.e. you are not from one of the high-immigration countries, namely India, China, etc), do the Visa Lottery. The odds are pretty good for Europeans in particular (that's how I got out of the H-1B hole) and the process will take much less time and money than the LCA (2 years max).
In any case, good luck!
If I'm not mistaken, the whole purpose of the student visa was give foreign students who couldn't attend college in their home country a place to learn. This equips them to return to their home, and build a better life, community, state, nation.
You are, indeed, mistaken. People who didn't have a chance to attend college in their home country comprise a tiny minority of student visa holders.
Undergraduate school requires that the students pay tuition. How many illiterate peasants from the middle of the jungle can afford to pay tuition in United States, plus travel expenses, etc?
Grad school, of course, requires prior undergrad education.
Far from being a form of charity, as you are trying to present it, it's a matter of - guess what? economics: supply and demand, in this case, for people and their brain power.
hmm.. I think the Gumus case shows something. This turkish guy has run a business for years with his family (I think a laundry). He was what was called a 'white illegal', meaning yes, he was an illegal immigrant but faithfully paid taxes etc... There was a lot of ruckus when he was going to get kicked out the country. the majority of dutch people thought he and his family should be allowed to stay. The case went all the way to government, where it was decided that no exception would be made. This naturally made quite a lot of people angry. I think he now works for a travel-organization in Turkey, welcoming dutch tourists.
//rdj
No one can understand the truth until he drinks of coffee's frothy goodness.
--Sheikh Abd-Al-Kadir, 1587
Shoot all the natives whilst gradually moving westwards. It worked last time didn't it?
:wq
I believe that you are allowed to work for up to one year after your schooling is finished. Your University student services should have more information on that. To be honest, many, many, many friends of mine that came to this country to study had a difficult time staying. To a man/woman everyone that is still here today is married to a US citizen.
"Science is about ego as much as it is about discovery and truth " - I said it, so sue me.
How StarShip Troopers-ish (the novel more than the movie, which so many people mis-understood). Civilians live and work, Citizens (vets) get to vote, hold office, etc etc, on the grounds that they've fought for what they would now help rule.
Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
For someone not trying to be racist or a troll, you're doing a pretty good job. Imagine what you could accomplish if you really tried.
Sarcasm aside, the only way to become a citizen (other than by birth or marriage) is to first reside in the U.S. For students seeking a legal way to do so, who are you to deny them? Consider that if people with your viewpoint had prevailed in the past, in all probability the U.S. would not be "your" country.
When your relatives came over from Italy at the turn of the century, it is a virtual certainty that they settled in a neighborhood full of Italian immigrants, and that their day-to-day interactions with their neighbors and merchants were carried out in Italian. It was almost always the kids who learned English--many older immigrants never did fully master the language.
Your electricity provider has enough customers who speak other languages that it's worth their while to go to all the trouble of programming and recording all their telephone scripts in multiple languages. Get over it.
Personally, what annoys me no end is people who would make others lives more difficult (or even dangerous) just so they can avoid having to punch an extra button on the phone.
make sure your appointment letter says the exact same job title as the jobs list (e.g. Computer Systems Analyst,
Note that one well. When I got one several years back my letter said just "Systems Analyst", not "COMPUTER Systems Analyst".
You wouldn't BELIEVE how hard it is to convince a good ol' Customs boy that if the job is programming, it's OBVIOUSLY "Computer" Systems Analyst even if it doesn't say that exactly...
If you are a foreign student studying in the US it can be a real challenge to stay in the US to work. Here are a couple of pieces of information that I assimilated during my application process.
Once the H1-B has been given your next goal is to go for a green card. This is typically at least 3 year process although it can be shorter if you have an advanced degree and the demand for green cards for your country is not too high (i.e. you are not from India). Since the inital H1-B is only granted for 3 years with a possible extension for another 3, you should really get moving on the green card process. The whole thing is a little easier if you are not trying to get your whole family to move over here with you and it is certianly easier if you happen to marry an american.
That is about all I know. Good luck
Solaristrum: One who has spent way too long staring at the Sun
Get a job in tech support. Your odd accents and peculiar word choices are perfect match to detailed instructions and technical vocabulary that the common person needs to understand.
--
Non-meta-modded "Overrated" mods are killing Slashdot
(Hey Ryan! Here's your proof!)
Of course it's an economic motive!
The question I have is: I think that thinking is totally unfair (and as unfair as the pejorative labels of "racist"). Moreover, I think that people who want to stay in the US should (as in morally should) want to be here because America is a great place to live, and offers democracy, constitutionally guaranteed freedoms, a honest judiciary in addition to economic opportunities. In short -- I want them to WANT to become Americans.
In short, I'm personally in favor of immigrants from ANYWHERE that want to come to America and BE AMERICANS -- this is what America is about.
For a whole laundry list of reasons, most of them economic, a lot of recent non-western immigrants have come to America not to be Americans but to be whatever culture they are in America -- not speaking English and not participating in the established culutural milieu. I think this is the wrong way around, and goes against the grain of the immigrants that have been successful AND accepted.
What's made immigrants successful long-term has been their willingness to be Americans, socially and culturally, not just their desire to make a fast buck.
(Numbers may be approximate as a result of memory errors) Last year Congress authorized the immigration department to pass out 90,000 green cards. They were only able to process the paperwork for 60,000. Over 30,000 qualified applicants did not receive green cards. Holding an H1B visa is no guarantee; there's a good chance that after your six years are up, you'll be shipped home. Of course, you could always stay illegally; the worst thing they'll do is deport you, after imprisoning you without trial or counsel for an indefinite period of time. The immigration system is kinda broken right now...
Of course, this doesn't begin to address the question of whether or not companies should be permitted to import workers. Companies which claim that they need more or better qualified workers should detach themselves from the governmental teats long enough to develop better recruitment, retention, and training programs. Any corporation could have as many trained workers as they liked within two years if they were willing to pay for it. If they don't want to, why should we permit them the post-modern counterpart to slave labor - "Don't want to work 100 hour weeks for $30K/yr? Well, we'll just cancel our sponsorship of your visa and you can go home and live in squalor!"
Honestly, I really don't like the idea of someone coming over here on a student visa, and then wanting to stay after graduation. If I'm not mistaken, the whole purpose of the student visa was give foreign students who couldn't attend college in their home country a place to learn. This equips them to return to their home, and build a better life, community, state, nation.
But wow,... the idea that these students, who were so fortunate to be given a chance to better themselves,... to become the leaders of their home nations, suddenly want to stay. Is there an ulterior motive here? Perhaps an economic one?
Look people, Student Visas are part of a foreign affairs agenda which believes that by helping other countries become better, that we become a better global society. I fully support this, and have no problem with that.
BUT, H1B visas are only to provide temporary labor, when such a demand cannot be provided by citizens. Honestly, I think the system has been twisted into letting corporations obtain (for lack of better words) slave labor.
So for a person on a student visa to suddenly want to continue working in the United States is completely undermining the purpose of their original stay.
Look people, Student Visas are part of a foreign affairs agenda which believes that by helping other countries become better, that we become a better global society. I fully support this, and have no problem with that.
You seem to be very naive. The whole purpose of bringing bright students from other countries to US is to get them educated and ready to support US economy. They come here, they learn, maybe do some research (grad students), and then they become productive members of US society. Reason they do it? US can't educate enough people in lower levels of education, send them to their colleges and fill those high-tech jobs. I know, 'cause at my school in my departament every other student is from outside US. My two roommates are from outside, and two out of three of my office mates are from outside. So am I.
US doesn't care about other countries, if it doesn't benefit US.
m
UBU
- Make sure that all students have done an internship with local or regional employers. This gives them a chance to get a sponsoring employer when it is time for green cards/H1B visas.
- Have a counselor experienced in INS hoorah. Other
/. topics have explored the inequities of the system. Other posts have done a good job of trolling about racism and isolationism.
There is no good way to get a work permit in the US without a sponsoring employer. See the rules on H-1B visas and stuff on becoming a lawful resident.The major difficulty is that green cards are granted by country. Once your country has used up its number of green cards - you're up a creek. The other major difficulty is that immigration is usually by family status, rather than by educational status or training..
Again, if you want students to have a sponsoring employer after graduation, you must work on outside employment issues at all times after the second term of school.
The above says a lot about your own mentality/motives, btw.
The thing is, I would bet that you never have experienced what it is like to be poor. And you are led to believe, by the media primarily, that everyone's aspiration is to become rich. And you think that poor people would be especially striving to prosper.
Not nesessarily true. There are many societies who are not very much "richer" than the primitive people of stone age. I come from one. However, none of them envy the rich america. In fact, most of them scorn it for its greediness. Only if they get exposed to the corruptive influence of mass media (invariably sponsored by big bucks) do they start mistakenly thinking they need more in terms of "wealth".
Also, being an American you probably haven't experienced what it is like to NOT be free, have a police regime in your country and/or be politically and/or phisically opressed. From my own experience and observations of my fellow-immigrants to this country, the ones who are most happy here are the ones who came here in search of freedom, and found it. The most unhappy ones are invariably those who came here to materially better their lives, which was not hard to do once you are in the states. Compared to their "middle-class" income in their native country, flipping burgers at mcdonalds provided them with everything they didn't have back home. But once that was achieved, they didn't have anything else to strive for.
I suggest you get to know a couple recent immigrants and talk with them about their life. You will be surprised...
Eligibility Requirements
The problems with it were that ISSO takes 3 months or more to process the forms, and you really need to submit 3-4 months in advance of graduation. And then there were potential problems leaving the country in between. Since I was Canadian, I looked into getting a TN (NAFTA) visa. Much simpler. You just need a letter offering employment, $56, proof of education, and a profession on the approved list. It took fifteen minutes to get the visa, but make sure your appointment letter says the exact same job title as the jobs list (e.g. Computer Systems Analyst, Engineer, Mathematician, Scientific technician/technologist, Technical publications writer, Astronomer, Biochemist, Biologist, Geneticist, Physicist). The disadvantages to the TN visa
I work for a global IT consulting company (hint: recently split from an accounting firm) from an offshore office somewhere in Asia. I've had the experience of working in the US (for two years) for the same firm and can offer the following insights, some of which may contradict what flatpack has stated:
1. On the overtime work/pay situation, the rest of the world is "catching up" with the US in terms of the the amount of overtime and absence of overtime pay. My firm recently standardized the overtime policy to keep in line with the American situation...most of Asia stopped paying overtime pay for IT people about two years ago, and Europe is not far behind. I think this trend is true for most "multi-national" IT firms, and most startups follow the same model. So, between working for a third-world salary vs. what-would-have-gotten-in-the-US, I think I'd pick the US option.
2. About the lack of humanity...I've found that American managers (at least in my firm) are more "human" than my home country managers. They bother to check if you have a personal life (which most Asian managers don't care about or won't even ask about due to cultural blocks). What I find really nice is the "Work hard, play hard" policy that most Americans adhere to...In Asia, the ability to balance one's personal life and work is lopsided towards work...probably due to cultural and economic factors.
3. Admittedly, it is hard to secure an H1B visa. Does it mean that the policy is racist or short-sighted? Might...but in this case, the benefit of the doubt should be cast. I come from a country where graft and corruption are part of official govt. procedures and redtape is used to print our money. Hate to sound desperate or un-nationalistic...but I'd probably jump-ship the first chance I get (which some of you probably wanted to hear...but that would be OT).
From someone who works w/ the INS on a regular basis:
1) Start early: Many applications don't go through due to procrastination on the part of the applicant. Many of these processes take months or even years. And don't wait for your current residency to expire before looking for the next one.
2) Check your work: There are tons of hoops you have to jump through and they are not well marked. The INS won't always helpfully remind you when you have a problem. Only warning here is not to pester the INS too much-- that could delay your answer.
3) Get assistance: Some lawyers specialize in immigration issues. Talk to one-- she'll be able to give you advice which is tailored to your particular case. Or talk to your congressional office-- they have people who know the rules and can explain them to you. Your company can also help-- IF you plan on staying there long enough for them to benefit.
Americans need to realize that immigrants not only work harder than natives (have you ever met a Hispanic migrant farm worker who works less than 13 hours a day?), but contribute more to society. These people come to the US because they believe they can find something better. They are willing to work for the privelege of the American Dream (TM). Perhaps instead of berating the former engineer from Kenya, you should thank him for being willing to mop your floor, despite the fact he is better trained and more intelligent than you.
Flipside is that rampant immigration can cause problems. California is definately a case for this. Southern Texas has PO box towns where Mexicans receive their Soc Sec checks before returning south of the border. But, in general, these are rare and isolated cases.
Unless your ancestors came to the U.S. as slaves or transported criminals, they too came here with an ulterior motive, seeking a better life for themselves and their descendants. You are the beneficiary of this, and you might want to consider how it looks for you to want to deny others the opportunities that your ancestors had.
Give us your poor and huddled masses, yearning to breathe free...
Let's face it, the Government in it's "heroic" efforts to keep control of the fast-changing employment situation here in the US is not making it easy for foreign people to work here - even if you get an H1B you end up stuck in the same job for your entire period and then get kicked out the country like an illegal immegrant. Hardly an inspiring direction to take your life in.
And then there's the amazing lack of humanity in the majority of America's employers. What other country in the world lets it's citizens work 90 hour weeks without a single hour of overtime? Oh yeah, that's right, the whole reason for H1Bs is to get foreigners here to do those 90 hour weeks, and they don't even have to give you the same rights as nationals (not that America provides many for them either).
America's entire policy on foreigners working there is both rascist and short-sighted. For a country built from immegrants and minimal government, recent political viewpoints seem to be tending towards a xenophobic attitude in which only America counts, and if you're not an American, you can only come here if you're willing to live like a second class citizen.
Try another country - there are IT opportunities across the world, and in most places you won't get nearly as much shit as you'll be put through by the US government.