Sure, but realism is an additional way to add immersion. Why deny game developers a useful tool?
Judging by your comment I think you would really enjoy "Photopia" and "Spider and Web" (unless you've played them already). They are two gems of recent interactive fiction that I've come across. Of course nothing beats Zork III.
Also Ultima VII. Awesome game. Awesome world. Totally immersive. The problem becomes when the graphics outstretch the other parts of the game. When a game looks like Doom or Ultima VII I don't except ragdoll physics and realism; but I am immersed. But when I play a game that looks like Oblivion and encounter cartoon physics there is a discordance that pulls me out of the game world.
Sure, but realism is an additional way to add immersion. Why deny game developers a useful tool?
Judging by your comment I think you would really enjoy "Photopia" and "Spider and Web" (unless you've played them already). They are two gems of recent interactive fiction that I've come across. Of course nothing beats Zork III.
This crap got pulled most hilariously on a Benji poster:
"Gene Shalit gave us a lukewarm review on the Today show," Camp recalls. Shalit closed by saying, "It's a wow for kids, a bowwow for dogs, and (breaking for a commercial) I think it's time for this message."
"I knew the picture worked," Camp says. "But how was I doing to get people into the theater?"
That day he rented a billboard outside Shalit's NBC office in Rockefeller Center in New York. " 'Benji -- I think it's time for this message.' -- Gene Shalit."
Shalit looked out his window, saw it, and laughed his head off.
Nope. Just about everything will be delivered, including groceries. Thanks to the traffic density increase and computer control most groceries stores will have several delivery "bots". So you just order what you want online and it arrives in an hour or less. Yes, of course the delivery cars will be refrigerated.
That's true, and it will be a big part of the bill being passed. The first provisions for what would become the Autocar Initiative were passed as part of another terrorism crackdown.
Not even. These high speed cars are *computer controlled* meaning that they don't require the lane sizes that we currently do. As part of the autocar legislation all existing roads had wide bike lanes on both sides added. Any roads that didn't have the space were routed off the central system. Bicycle traveling for short distances was made mandatory as part of the oil reduction initiative. It sucked at first but once major emphasis was placed on bicycle construction and sale (think of how many commericals for cars we have now, now imagine almost as many for bicycles) some pretty sweet rides became available. Auto balancing, electric motor assist, sweet cargo capacity (at least enough for groceries), electric motor bike trailers for other loads, etc.
Ahh. Your "performance" car kept you out of jeopardy eh. You don't mention that safe driving in the first place (no tailgating, allowing stoppage distance, no excessive acceleration and braking except when necessary) would have kept you and others out of jeopardy AND not introduced the potential for an accident caused by your avoidance.
Not be one of the cattle...so you rebel by doing things like everyone else? I don't know where you live but wherever I've driven (up and down the east coast) you performance car drivers are a penny a dozen.
At first safety experts focused on the problem as part of the larger one of driver distractions in general. These can include anything that reduces driver concentration on road hazards from drinking coffee to talking with another passenger. Now there is increasing evidence that the dangers associated with cell-phone use outweigh those of other distractions. Safety experts also acknowledge that the hazard posed by cell phone conversations is not eliminated, and may even be increased, by the use of hands-free sets.
Motorists who use cell phones while driving are four times as likely to get into crashes serious enough to injure themselves, according to a study of drivers in Perth, Australia, conducted by the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety. The results, published in July, 2005, suggest that banning hand-held phone use won't necessarily improve safety if drivers simply switch to hands-free phones. The study found that injury crash risk didn't vary with type of phone.
A government study released in June 2005 indicates that the distraction of cell phones and other wireless devices was far more likely to lead to crashes than other distractions faced by drivers. Researchers for the Virginia Tech Transportation Institute and the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) tracked 100 cars and their drivers for a year and concluded that talking on cell phones caused far more crashes, near-crashes and other incidents than other distractions.
A study from the University of Utah published in the winter 2004/2005 issue of Human Factors, the quarterly journal of the Human Factors and Ergonomics Society, found that motorists who talked on hands-free cell phones were 18 percent slower in braking and took 17 percent longer to regain the speed they lost when they braked. An earlier University of Utah study by the same researchers found that drivers talking on hands-free cell phones were less likely to recall seeing pedestrians, billboards or other roadside features.
For the sake of all that is intelligent and reasonable! Realism != Mundanity
Realism is not mundanity Realism is not mundanity
Sorry to repeat myself but it will help you remember.
Maybe this is true of you, but in my fantasy worlds, magic is cool, mushrooms make you bigger, and flowers give you the ability to shoot fire. Making these worlds more realistic might help a particular genre, but it'd be of limited benefit to the games I play where things like magic, jumping over buildings, etc, apply.
And isn't it great when the game reacts appropriately to those actions? I'm not saying that the games should be carbon copies of the real world, but that their ability to create belivable fantasy worlds should be strengthened!
I am NOT arguing that Oblivion should have realistic physics coded in. No one would be able to run it! But I am arguing AGAINST the position that it (and games like it) shouldn't ever have realistic physics!
I guess developers shouldn't have ever adopted cool 3d graphics and more than 8 bit sound either? Huh? Because we all ran 386s for gaming at one point. Why ever develop for anything more!?
Hell, we've changed genetically for millions of years. Who's to say that homo sapiens is the end all and be all? This form is simply the best suited for our current environment. New environment => new form. Unless the change is too rapid for our limited diversity* to cope with.
* Humans have one of the smallest gene pools of any species on the planet. Widely believed to be so because our population was reduced to a very small number at one point and then repopulated.
The problem is that when you LIVE life in a performance car (or, indeed, any car) it isn't just your life that is placed in jeopardy.
The robot cars are coming. At first it will just be for safety, then auto collision evasion, then auto interstate driving, then mandatory auto interstate driving, then auto street driving in select cities, then auto street driving, then auto road driving, then mandatory street/road driving.
Eventually you'll just be booting up the car and selecting a recent destination, bookmarked destination, or searching for a new destination with Google Auto Mapper.
Pros: extremely high traffic density at high speed and environmental legislation will prevent cars from being used for travel less than ten miles---excepting for the elderly with an exemption (otherwise bicycles will be required, thus combating both pollution and obesity). Much higher traffic safety, particularly at rush hour and during inclement weather. Safety is maintained by a combination of centralized regional routing control and client verification of instruction (the car will refuse a central signal that tells it to drive 120mph into a brick wall).
Does physics add to gameplay? Yes. Immersion is key. Role playing games are all about immersing you into a fully realized world and allowing you to run around and do as you please. The more realism that world has, the more it can pull you in. Is this a really hard concept to understand? How could making our escapist gaming worlds more cohesive and realized be bad? Should we just go back to playing Adventure for our RPG satisfaction?
I don't play Oblivion because I'm interested in real-world physics.
No, you play Oblivion because you want to adventure in a cool fantasy world! The more realistic the fantasy world, the more clever and interesting your adventures would be.
Gaming is all about gameplay, yes. But good graphics, physics, sound, and all the other advancing gaming technologies add to the game developer's toolbox. Using the new tools provided by increasing technological capability developers can create better and better gameplay experiences. Sure the tools can be abused by hacks to develop games that exploit a tool rather than use it, but is that a reason to stop advancing altogether?
Heh. You need to update your understanding of CCP politics. Your info is about forty or fifty years out of date. The CCP is now officially communist but is, in practice, throughly capitalist.
They know it too. From an article on new war machines in the Jan, 06 Maxim Magazine:
The most conspicuous feature of the AHED is its uncanny resemblance to the troop transport in the movie Aliens. When I mention the likeness to the engineers, they reluctantly agree and quickly change the subject.
So would it be infringement if I made a movie or designed a truck that resembled the Aliens vehicle; but not if the military does it?
Behold. A list of Infocom titles at The Legacy. Gaze upon the excess of gaming goodies of an era gone by and weep. Ballyhoo, Infidel, Enchanter, Cuttthroat, HGTG, etc.
You cite Wing Commander as a prime example of gaming swag? Man, you should've played Origin games in the 80s. The Ultima games always came with great stuff (a Brittanian coin for V, a dark moonstone with VI, etc.).
Look up some Origin (Autoduel, Ultima series) or Infocom (Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy) games on The Legacy and see the great swag of yesteryear.
Slashdot Mirror
Viralblog.
Rumor spreading.
Whatever, facing two mirrors at each other may give the illusion of infinite depth but won't give you any more information. Same result here.
Sure, but realism is an additional way to add immersion. Why deny game developers a useful tool?
Judging by your comment I think you would really enjoy "Photopia" and "Spider and Web" (unless you've played them already). They are two gems of recent interactive fiction that I've come across. Of course nothing beats Zork III.
Also Ultima VII. Awesome game. Awesome world. Totally immersive. The problem becomes when the graphics outstretch the other parts of the game. When a game looks like Doom or Ultima VII I don't except ragdoll physics and realism; but I am immersed. But when I play a game that looks like Oblivion and encounter cartoon physics there is a discordance that pulls me out of the game world.
Sure, but realism is an additional way to add immersion. Why deny game developers a useful tool?
Judging by your comment I think you would really enjoy "Photopia" and "Spider and Web" (unless you've played them already). They are two gems of recent interactive fiction that I've come across. Of course nothing beats Zork III.
This crap got pulled most hilariously on a Benji poster:
"Gene Shalit gave us a lukewarm review on the Today show," Camp recalls. Shalit closed by saying, "It's a wow for kids, a bowwow for dogs, and (breaking for a commercial) I think it's time for this message."
"I knew the picture worked," Camp says. "But how was I doing to get people into the theater?"
That day he rented a billboard outside Shalit's NBC office in Rockefeller Center in New York. " 'Benji -- I think it's time for this message.' -- Gene Shalit."
Shalit looked out his window, saw it, and laughed his head off.
Benji creator, Ole Miss alum on star hunt
Nope. Just about everything will be delivered, including groceries. Thanks to the traffic density increase and computer control most groceries stores will have several delivery "bots". So you just order what you want online and it arrives in an hour or less. Yes, of course the delivery cars will be refrigerated.
The doors locked...and you think you're safe? :-)
That's true, and it will be a big part of the bill being passed. The first provisions for what would become the Autocar Initiative were passed as part of another terrorism crackdown.
Not even. These high speed cars are *computer controlled* meaning that they don't require the lane sizes that we currently do. As part of the autocar legislation all existing roads had wide bike lanes on both sides added. Any roads that didn't have the space were routed off the central system. Bicycle traveling for short distances was made mandatory as part of the oil reduction initiative. It sucked at first but once major emphasis was placed on bicycle construction and sale (think of how many commericals for cars we have now, now imagine almost as many for bicycles) some pretty sweet rides became available. Auto balancing, electric motor assist, sweet cargo capacity (at least enough for groceries), electric motor bike trailers for other loads, etc.
Ahh. Your "performance" car kept you out of jeopardy eh. You don't mention that safe driving in the first place (no tailgating, allowing stoppage distance, no excessive acceleration and braking except when necessary) would have kept you and others out of jeopardy AND not introduced the potential for an accident caused by your avoidance.
Not be one of the cattle...so you rebel by doing things like everyone else? I don't know where you live but wherever I've driven (up and down the east coast) you performance car drivers are a penny a dozen.
Cell Phones and Driving
Highlights:
At first safety experts focused on the problem as part of the larger one of driver distractions in general. These can include anything that reduces driver concentration on road hazards from drinking coffee to talking with another passenger. Now there is increasing evidence that the dangers associated with cell-phone use outweigh those of other distractions. Safety experts also acknowledge that the hazard posed by cell phone conversations is not eliminated, and may even be increased, by the use of hands-free sets.
Motorists who use cell phones while driving are four times as likely to get into crashes serious enough to injure themselves, according to a study of drivers in Perth, Australia, conducted by the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety. The results, published in July, 2005, suggest that banning hand-held phone use won't necessarily improve safety if drivers simply switch to hands-free phones. The study found that injury crash risk didn't vary with type of phone.
A government study released in June 2005 indicates that the distraction of cell phones and other wireless devices was far more likely to lead to crashes than other distractions faced by drivers. Researchers for the Virginia Tech Transportation Institute and the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) tracked 100 cars and their drivers for a year and concluded that talking on cell phones caused far more crashes, near-crashes and other incidents than other distractions.
A study from the University of Utah published in the winter 2004/2005 issue of Human Factors, the quarterly journal of the Human Factors and Ergonomics Society, found that motorists who talked on hands-free cell phones were 18 percent slower in braking and took 17 percent longer to regain the speed they lost when they braked. An earlier University of Utah study by the same researchers found that drivers talking on hands-free cell phones were less likely to recall seeing pedestrians, billboards or other roadside features.
Realism is not mundanity
Realism is not mundanity
Sorry to repeat myself but it will help you remember.
And isn't it great when the game reacts appropriately to those actions? I'm not saying that the games should be carbon copies of the real world, but that their ability to create belivable fantasy worlds should be strengthened!
I am NOT arguing that Oblivion should have realistic physics coded in. No one would be able to run it! But I am arguing AGAINST the position that it (and games like it) shouldn't ever have realistic physics!
I guess developers shouldn't have ever adopted cool 3d graphics and more than 8 bit sound either? Huh? Because we all ran 386s for gaming at one point. Why ever develop for anything more!?
Gaah! GAAAAH! Brain broken.
Ha yeah. Silly me. Pole Position is totally more immersing than PGR3.
You seem to be under the delusion that realism == mundanity.
Why do you assume that realism == mundane?
Would you have preferred Oblivion to be made using the Morrowind engine? Why/why not?
Right. Progess is needed. Choices have to be made for performance and development reasons.
I wasn't arguing that Oblivion should have better physics now, but disagreeing with the position that it doesn't need better physics at all.
Hell, we've changed genetically for millions of years. Who's to say that homo sapiens is the end all and be all? This form is simply the best suited for our current environment. New environment => new form. Unless the change is too rapid for our limited diversity* to cope with.
* Humans have one of the smallest gene pools of any species on the planet. Widely believed to be so because our population was reduced to a very small number at one point and then repopulated.
The problem is that when you LIVE life in a performance car (or, indeed, any car) it isn't just your life that is placed in jeopardy.
The robot cars are coming. At first it will just be for safety, then auto collision evasion, then auto interstate driving, then mandatory auto interstate driving, then auto street driving in select cities, then auto street driving, then auto road driving, then mandatory street/road driving.
Eventually you'll just be booting up the car and selecting a recent destination, bookmarked destination, or searching for a new destination with Google Auto Mapper.
Pros: extremely high traffic density at high speed and environmental legislation will prevent cars from being used for travel less than ten miles---excepting for the elderly with an exemption (otherwise bicycles will be required, thus combating both pollution and obesity). Much higher traffic safety, particularly at rush hour and during inclement weather. Safety is maintained by a combination of centralized regional routing control and client verification of instruction (the car will refuse a central signal that tells it to drive 120mph into a brick wall).
Cons: We don't get to drive anymore.
No, you play Oblivion because you want to adventure in a cool fantasy world! The more realistic the fantasy world, the more clever and interesting your adventures would be.
Gaming is all about gameplay, yes. But good graphics, physics, sound, and all the other advancing gaming technologies add to the game developer's toolbox. Using the new tools provided by increasing technological capability developers can create better and better gameplay experiences. Sure the tools can be abused by hacks to develop games that exploit a tool rather than use it, but is that a reason to stop advancing altogether?
Heh. You need to update your understanding of CCP politics. Your info is about forty or fifty years out of date. The CCP is now officially communist but is, in practice, throughly capitalist.
More like: as Plato transcribed it.
You now owe me 10% of my current debt (negative savings). I accept hard currency in mayonaise jars or under mattresses.
They know it too. From an article on new war machines in the Jan, 06 Maxim Magazine:So would it be infringement if I made a movie or designed a truck that resembled the Aliens vehicle; but not if the military does it?
Behold. A list of Infocom titles at The Legacy. Gaze upon the excess of gaming goodies of an era gone by and weep. Ballyhoo, Infidel, Enchanter, Cuttthroat, HGTG, etc.
You cite Wing Commander as a prime example of gaming swag? Man, you should've played Origin games in the 80s. The Ultima games always came with great stuff (a Brittanian coin for V, a dark moonstone with VI, etc.).
Look up some Origin (Autoduel, Ultima series) or Infocom (Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy) games on The Legacy and see the great swag of yesteryear.
Worked on me. I bought an XBox just to play Shenmue II. Totally worth it.
What about the mac mini?