I find one issue that people rarely bring up when discussing Ms vs. Open Source OS's is that if the tables turned, people would shit on Nix's as openly and wantonly as MS products. Microsoft realized they had a profitable and viable piece of coding that could become the core of their company. So in turn they didn't allow open sourcing. Now with all these great operating systems available that ARE open source Microsoft becomes the "giant that stole christmas"
Linux and OS's like it have successful security implementations because they have an unlimited amount of programmers to work on the code. There is no over head, no one to say "That's not a profitable solution" and no one to gripe when you sit down for hours on end tweaking your source. Open sourcing becomes a pet project, a hobby, and a way of life. A battle cry, held upon high by rogue programmers who sit at their consoles running a MS product at work, wishing they could do something besides regediting to add finesse to their OS. So they go home, fire up the ole' Red Hat and tweak till' they turn blue in the face. And it's a great thing to behold. BUT a problem with a lot of open sourcing is personal preference. MS products were intended for the masses of "dull" witted purely PC users. It had to be the friendly OS by design or it wouldn't have profit potential. THAT is why every person in your neighborhood has a PC, because SOMEONE took the time to gear it down to the "regular Joe" (I mean could you imagine your 57 year old mother running BSD?) However, Open Sourcing has a tendency to be modded personally, so that the OS operates to YOUR personal preference. That is the beauty of running a *Nix your can dumb it back up.
Basically my point is this, Security was not a primary concern when Windows was produced, they were worried about the little guy who could barely turn on his monitor, but you have to admit your Mom loves Bill Gates because getting email is cool!
The beauty of natural behavioral patterns is that, life wants to find the easiest way from point A to point B. I relate this because of humans' natural urge to improve on things to make operations faster. Unfortunetly, going from Point A to Point B as a life's exercise is a radical idea. A famous French philospher once said that "life holds no meaning, all the we strive for ultimatley is death." SO, why go through all the hassles of existance and all those theoretical points in between when A=Birth and B=Death. BECAUSE of this we always innovate, we always improve, and we always digress. We can no more make our transitional existance feasable by improvement than we can by allowing ourselves to stay the straight and narrow and die. THEREFORE, in relation to this comment (finally) Bosses and managerial types LOVE improvement and innovation for the sake of furthering our easiest way to point B. However, the people who IMPLEMENT these ideas are actually given MORE work, not less. Management moves forward as a collective business practice and the grunt down in IS works his ass off to the make these "great" improvements a reality. SO, who benefits? The company (who in trade for innovation loses morale) The managers (who get credit for the actual improvements though their workforce is lax from the investment of time) or the grunt (who puts all the effort and gets none of the return)
It's all futile in the end, let the company die, let the managers die, let the grunts die, it's their ultimate ambition anyway
Of course Pi isn't an infinite number but how can you say that it isn't a "fuzzy" number since with decimal expansion you CAN"T get the exact number to the exact decimal for Pi. So when you do you 2*Pi equation you aren't gettin an EXACT number, your making an approximation which is what I was trying to state
As a related example, take euclidian geometery (in case you didn't know, what they teach high school kids). When you solve for the radius of a circle or the diameter of a circle you use Pi. Well sure you can get an answer, but that answer is an aproximation because Pi (as im sure you know) is an infinite number, so when sitting in your 10th grade geometery class in high school kids and Mr./Mrs. Smith says "Alright kiddies, solve for the radius of this circle" you can state that you would, but you don't like giving only an approximate answer:P
I do agree, and you can stop making feeble attempts to mock my intelligence, I can grasp your conjectures, I just see things in a different way . I know that those statements have an "undeniable truth", I was simply trying to state that when you have a conjecture that states a theory that is true to the end of numbers then you simply can't give an example to the END of numbers because there isn't one.
I think we are just thinking along different lines man. All I am saying is that you can never prove that those theories are correct. Think of it like this, if those theories worked to the largest number computable by man/machine (say to the 100 billionth digit) and for some whacked out reason it changed and the theory become untrue. Then it would be false. I'm not saying it would happen, but you can't PROVE it because every integer can have a number added to it or subtracted from it. It may seem illogical that a conjecture had truth all the way to a billionth digit, then changed BUT it could happen
well think of the concept of a non-lineaur equation and the concept of chaos theorum and period oscillations in comparison to non-linear equations. Read any work put out by Mandlebrot or Lorenz. When you deal with a non-lineaur equation you deal with an equation that has no set solution in a "logical" sense, you can incorporate this line of thought when thinking on a chaotic part of nature, or what may SEEM to be chaotic, Perception is the key to solving problems of this caliber, to be able to perceive the problem from not one or two or X angles but to perceive from ALL possible angles is to truly formulate a working equation to solve this caliber problem. Another thing to think on along those lines is "Is anything random" My answer would be NO
Well think of it like this I know I'm wrong, but what the hell P=NP, looks like a basic algebraic eqaution So break it down The variable P is always equal to the variable N multiplied by the variable P.....so why not make the variable N always "1"
Oh my god, I read this part of the thread "and having a link, to a link, to a site outside of this country is illegal" and I thought, we're turning into communists, WHAT next? killing cyber criminals like the Chinese did? I think the internet, while having some of it BASED in this country, should NOT be governed by the U.S government, imagine, one day waking up in 1984? Think about this, and think about Martin Luther King Jr's quote "injustice anywhere is a threat to justice anywhere" Free speech is an unalienable right of EVERY United States citizen, this in turn covers a freedom of NOT being censored? What is more inportant, a billion dollar corporation, or the Constitution which made all of this possible? Our rights are being infringed upon, and LEGALLY at that matter, the DMCA is a shining example of something like this. Can I sue Microsoft if I copyrighted this comment and they posted it on their site without my permission? PROBABLY, another thought, did they ask the posters of the comments they quoted in their e-mail to have their work used (in essence) against them? I think that if Microsoft is such a "compilation of brilliant minds creating exciting innovations" that they would not attempt to STIFLE innovation
you have to also realize, with this prior comment in mind, that the internet and tv, along with other mulitmedia things, allows for MORE access to these things. 40 years in the past, your common teen would be thinking of that paper route, that bike ride, playing in the woods or something, BUT with so much exposure to senseless violence, adultary, drug use, etc that kids SEE and HEAR more about the "bad" aspects of life then EVER in human history, maybe when commenting on the bad aspects of children's lives in the present you should glance towards the media venues for one of your scapegoats, it isn't any teens fault that as soon as they turn on the "idiot box" (tv) that they see these things, sensory exposure leads to experimentation which leads to addiction, which leads to "another bad kid" Reform the media you reform society, reform how our policing bodies handle themselves and you clean the streets, target the true criminals before you eek out that little bad from your not so bad person and look for the causes.
The article may have some truth to it after all I went five days without sleep and found that I was philosphizing more. That I wonder'd why do I exist? Why do WE exist and in that time I wrote a paper on my "Theory on unequivicable singulartiy" and it was rather well written (done on the 5th day) and I also wrote a comment here that scored well on the 4th day. I think that sleep deprevation, though dangerous, does stimulate expanded brain function and opens gateways to different forms of creativity that the well rested mind may not clasp onto. Some food for thought...try writing as thesis after not sleeping for a week...might be interesting results.
well first, you are OBVISOULY biased in your opinion and I also doubt you've ever been in the United State's education system. We may not be a country like Japan where they learn calculas at age 5, but we have VERY challenging courses in our REGULAR public high schools. We have honors and Advanced Placement classes that most people who want to be even marginally successful go through. Not to mention that we have some of the best technical schools in the world (MIT, Berkely) just my.02 cents, but I hate people who bash us without bothering to do a little info seeking first.
I think that is a good angle to take on the matter. But my friends, consider Microsoft as you would the plague. They create a small ported program to linux, next their asking that their (now mainstream) "small un-evasive program" be run through THEIR windows manager. I remember getting a winblows 98 OS on my new computer and ALMOST setting the tower on fire because of dll and packet conflicts with Netscape. They do these things on purpose, the borg has set destination : Linux and all free source users of the universe. Assimilate and conquer "But Mr. Chairman, Monopoly is fun, oh not the board game"
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I find one issue that people rarely bring up when discussing Ms vs. Open Source OS's is that if the tables turned, people would shit on Nix's as openly and wantonly as MS products. Microsoft realized they had a profitable and viable piece of coding that could become the core of their company. So in turn they didn't allow open sourcing. Now with all these great operating systems available that ARE open source Microsoft becomes the "giant that stole christmas"
Linux and OS's like it have successful security implementations because they have an unlimited amount of programmers to work on the code. There is no over head, no one to say "That's not a profitable solution" and no one to gripe when you sit down for hours on end tweaking your source. Open sourcing becomes a pet project, a hobby, and a way of life. A battle cry, held upon high by rogue programmers who sit at their consoles running a MS product at work, wishing they could do something besides regediting to add finesse to their OS. So they go home, fire up the ole' Red Hat and tweak till' they turn blue in the face. And it's a great thing to behold. BUT a problem with a lot of open sourcing is personal preference. MS products were intended for the masses of "dull" witted purely PC users. It had to be the friendly OS by design or it wouldn't have profit potential. THAT is why every person in your neighborhood has a PC, because SOMEONE took the time to gear it down to the "regular Joe" (I mean could you imagine your 57 year old mother running BSD?) However, Open Sourcing has a tendency to be modded personally, so that the OS operates to YOUR personal preference. That is the beauty of running a *Nix your can dumb it back up.
Basically my point is this, Security was not a primary concern when Windows was produced, they were worried about the little guy who could barely turn on his monitor, but you have to admit your Mom loves Bill Gates because getting email is cool!
And there was great rejoicing
"Yay!"
The beauty of natural behavioral patterns is that, life wants to find the easiest way from point A to point B. I relate this because of humans' natural urge to improve on things to make operations faster. Unfortunetly, going from Point A to Point B as a life's exercise is a radical idea. A famous French philospher once said that "life holds no meaning, all the we strive for ultimatley is death." SO, why go through all the hassles of existance and all those theoretical points in between when A=Birth and B=Death. BECAUSE of this we always innovate, we always improve, and we always digress. We can no more make our transitional existance feasable by improvement than we can by allowing ourselves to stay the straight and narrow and die. THEREFORE, in relation to this comment (finally) Bosses and managerial types LOVE improvement and innovation for the sake of furthering our easiest way to point B. However, the people who IMPLEMENT these ideas are actually given MORE work, not less. Management moves forward as a collective business practice and the grunt down in IS works his ass off to the make these "great" improvements a reality. SO, who benefits? The company (who in trade for innovation loses morale) The managers (who get credit for the actual improvements though their workforce is lax from the investment of time) or the grunt (who puts all the effort and gets none of the return)
It's all futile in the end, let the company die, let the managers die, let the grunts die, it's their ultimate ambition anyway
Of course Pi isn't an infinite number but how can you say that it isn't a "fuzzy" number since with decimal expansion you CAN"T get the exact number to the exact decimal for Pi. So when you do you 2*Pi equation you aren't gettin an EXACT number, your making an approximation which is what I was trying to state
As a related example, take euclidian geometery (in case you didn't know, what they teach high school kids). When you solve for the radius of a circle or the diameter of a circle you use Pi. Well sure you can get an answer, but that answer is an aproximation because Pi (as im sure you know) is an infinite number, so when sitting in your 10th grade geometery class in high school kids and Mr./Mrs. Smith says "Alright kiddies, solve for the radius of this circle" you can state that you would, but you don't like giving only an approximate answer :P
I do agree, and you can stop making feeble attempts to mock my intelligence, I can grasp your conjectures, I just see things in a different way . I know that those statements have an "undeniable truth", I was simply trying to state that when you have a conjecture that states a theory that is true to the end of numbers then you simply can't give an example to the END of numbers because there isn't one.
I think we are just thinking along different lines man. All I am saying is that you can never prove that those theories are correct. Think of it like this, if those theories worked to the largest number computable by man/machine (say to the 100 billionth digit) and for some whacked out reason it changed and the theory become untrue. Then it would be false. I'm not saying it would happen, but you can't PROVE it because every integer can have a number added to it or subtracted from it. It may seem illogical that a conjecture had truth all the way to a billionth digit, then changed BUT it could happen
The problem stated "That every" when you use the word EVERY then you use ALL, what is the connotation of the word every in relation to numbers?
your right, you dumb fuck, BUT in order to prove a problem of that caliber requires going to infinty to prove.
well think of the concept of a non-lineaur equation and the concept of chaos theorum and period oscillations in comparison to non-linear equations. Read any work put out by Mandlebrot or Lorenz. When you deal with a non-lineaur equation you deal with an equation that has no set solution in a "logical" sense, you can incorporate this line of thought when thinking on a chaotic part of nature, or what may SEEM to be chaotic, Perception is the key to solving problems of this caliber, to be able to perceive the problem from not one or two or X angles but to perceive from ALL possible angles is to truly formulate a working equation to solve this caliber problem. Another thing to think on along those lines is "Is anything random" My answer would be NO
Well think of it like this I know I'm wrong, but what the hell P=NP, looks like a basic algebraic eqaution So break it down The variable P is always equal to the variable N multiplied by the variable P.....so why not make the variable N always "1"
Oh my god, I read this part of the thread "and having a link, to a link, to a site outside of this country is illegal" and I thought, we're turning into communists, WHAT next? killing cyber criminals like the Chinese did? I think the internet, while having some of it BASED in this country, should NOT be governed by the U.S government, imagine, one day waking up in 1984? Think about this, and think about Martin Luther King Jr's quote "injustice anywhere is a threat to justice anywhere" Free speech is an unalienable right of EVERY United States citizen, this in turn covers a freedom of NOT being censored? What is more inportant, a billion dollar corporation, or the Constitution which made all of this possible? Our rights are being infringed upon, and LEGALLY at that matter, the DMCA is a shining example of something like this. Can I sue Microsoft if I copyrighted this comment and they posted it on their site without my permission? PROBABLY, another thought, did they ask the posters of the comments they quoted in their e-mail to have their work used (in essence) against them? I think that if Microsoft is such a "compilation of brilliant minds creating exciting innovations" that they would not attempt to STIFLE innovation
you have to also realize, with this prior comment in mind, that the internet and tv, along with other mulitmedia things, allows for MORE access to these things. 40 years in the past, your common teen would be thinking of that paper route, that bike ride, playing in the woods or something, BUT with so much exposure to senseless violence, adultary, drug use, etc that kids SEE and HEAR more about the "bad" aspects of life then EVER in human history, maybe when commenting on the bad aspects of children's lives in the present you should glance towards the media venues for one of your scapegoats, it isn't any teens fault that as soon as they turn on the "idiot box" (tv) that they see these things, sensory exposure leads to experimentation which leads to addiction, which leads to "another bad kid" Reform the media you reform society, reform how our policing bodies handle themselves and you clean the streets, target the true criminals before you eek out that little bad from your not so bad person and look for the causes.
The article may have some truth to it after all I went five days without sleep and found that I was philosphizing more. That I wonder'd why do I exist? Why do WE exist and in that time I wrote a paper on my "Theory on unequivicable singulartiy" and it was rather well written (done on the 5th day) and I also wrote a comment here that scored well on the 4th day. I think that sleep deprevation, though dangerous, does stimulate expanded brain function and opens gateways to different forms of creativity that the well rested mind may not clasp onto. Some food for thought...try writing as thesis after not sleeping for a week...might be interesting results.
well first, you are OBVISOULY biased in your opinion and I also doubt you've ever been in the United State's education system. We may not be a country like Japan where they learn calculas at age 5, but we have VERY challenging courses in our REGULAR public high schools. We have honors and Advanced Placement classes that most people who want to be even marginally successful go through. Not to mention that we have some of the best technical schools in the world (MIT, Berkely) just my .02 cents, but I hate people who bash us without bothering to do a little info seeking first.
I think that is a good angle to take on the matter. But my friends, consider Microsoft as you would the plague. They create a small ported program to linux, next their asking that their (now mainstream) "small un-evasive program" be run through THEIR windows manager. I remember getting a winblows 98 OS on my new computer and ALMOST setting the tower on fire because of dll and packet conflicts with Netscape. They do these things on purpose, the borg has set destination : Linux and all free source users of the universe. Assimilate and conquer "But Mr. Chairman, Monopoly is fun, oh not the board game"