"Bullshit. IE's success had everything to do with bundling, because IE 4.0 had parity with NS 4.0. IE 3.x was nowhere near as good as NS 3.x. Once they achieved (almost) parity with NS, their market share took off... "
No, mostly... I for was a loyal user of Netscape, until about 6 months ago. When I strated to learn the new HTML4 CSS2 and XML standards. Now I never open up NN, except to seem how badly NN renders one of my pages. And If I will need to make a seperate site for it.
Sure, MS where pigs by forcing OEM's to not sell NN, and they did the have the upperhand because they could bundle it with there OS (no that there's anything wrong with that). But NN didn't exactly try to stay alive, by making a decent browser, the did one or all of the folloing: Support standards, fast and reliable, add new inivative(not inivative in the MS sence) features.
"One of the main points of this case was that Windows was unfairly bundling IE with Windows"
The main point in the case is silly, and should never have been brought up. I like getting an OS and getting a whole lot of usefull software with it. There is nothing wrong with bundeling software. There is also nothing wrong(even though it may no be the best thihng to do) with not providing an uninstall option for the bundled software.
What is wrong, is when MS try to prevent other non-MS software from running on windows. Wheather that may be code in the OS, or threatening retailers, licencing policies etc...
"which we are not particularly keen on supporting either"
Really? Whats so bad about USB? Sure, Firewire might be better (even though most PC's don't come starnard with it). But having a mouse connected to a firewire port is a bit of a waste IMHO, even though you can run multiple devices.
I have to dissagree with you opintion on win2k. I'm not a MS supporter, but I've been using win98se for the last 2 years. Just moved to a new PC, with win2k, A few teething problems. But it beats the pants of win98se. But I do see your point. there arn't that many great changes to the OS other than stability (which should have been there in the frst place).
The only think about bundeling is thay if MS had to do it any other way. They would have to sell 20 differnt versions of winXXXX with the differnt combinations of bundeled software included. Thats just silly. The only other way it to have the users download it seperatly. But I know I'd be very pissed off if i had to download the extra features, considering how big MS code usaly is. And there's no way I'd pay for it seperatly.
You don;t have to un-instal the software to use other programs. Just don't use it. It's simple as that really.
Sure, you could say that this is prevented,by MS chaging the API's (or what ever they are). Making it harder for 3rd party ppl to compete with MS. But that's got nothing to do with MS bundeling stuff.
The most annoying thing I find with/. is that people don't attack what is acctually casuing the problems all the time.
MS including software, intergating apps into the OS is a good thing.
MS slowly chainging APIs, Making it difficult to insatll 3rd party stuff, threating retailers with and the whole OEM thing, is a bad thing, complain about that.
I think it's about time MS included stuff like this. OS's are evolving. I expect an OS to be able to get me on the net, use email, PIM's, whatch DVD's listen to MP3z, and especialy burn CD's, right out of the box.
Exactly. Just like today. No one is forcing you to drink coffee or beer, But if you went into a cafe or pub and ordered a glass or water, you would get some funny looks;)
Many people become acuatom to not reading licences. I know I never do. But then again, a OME licence is a bit differnt (bigger responsibility kinda thing I mean).
Well, I'm currently mucking around with a HTML4/CSS2 version of/. in my spare time.
But seriously, The day/. decides to up-grade, and use usefull things like CSS, is the say that MS decided to make a 100% standards complient browser.
The cool thing with CSS, is you can compleatly control the entire site, including achived stuff, with one (or more) CSS file.
And of course, there is no need for a slashdot, light version, since lynx and other stuff ignores style sheets. A CSS system would be godsent on a site like/.
And when I mean, change the look, I mean everything, not just the fonts. I think alot of people think that CSS is just a font thing. But you can easly make a page with no tables, and have it look just the same, probably better. As well as put the code for the content before the other stuff, so it appears first for people not using CSS, and they don't have to scroll though the entire left menu to get to the content every time.
But untill browsers support these things properly, people let go of old browers, and people change there web-design practices, it ain't gona happen.
Unless the voice on the cellphone they picked up went:
"We're out to get you.... haha HAHA MLUUUUHAHAHAHAHAHHAAAAAAA. We know know where you live to!! AHAHAHAH HAA ha! AAAAHHHHH HA HA HA HAAAAA!! HA hAHAHAHAAH...
Then they might leave it behide. Getting them to leave is all psycological. If they really think your a whacked-out, pshyco boy, they arn't gona hang round for long.
Or maybe you could have a prog that would alow you to set off an alarm system aswell.
Or he could be speaking from a Video editor, 3D modeller, Animator, Graphic designer, Web designer (or anyone else who needs a big desktop for actualy working) perspective.
1. Calander, for the next 100 (or more) years
2. Editable
3. Catagorizable
4. Databases
5. Stopwhatch
6. Sofisticated alarm
7. Calculator
8. Faster to search though (and reliable to)
9. eBook (I can hold at least 10 novels)
10. Viewable in the dark
11. All the other computer type programs that don't work on paper
12. No matter how much stuff you take with you in it. It never gets bigger
13. The geek factor
14. Oh yeah. Dictionary, that's always handy
15. Like someone else said, you can back it up in a few seconds
16. Syncs with the computer, so you don't have to write/type stuff twice
17. And yes... the games to I spose, that's always a bonus.
The fact is, no matter how gooder designer, or GUI expert you are.. flash is still lacking things.
1. No way to bookmark a page
2. No basic things like right click (no more right click, open link in new window, which I use alot).
3. No way to adjust the fonts if really needed (visuasly impared). At least with browsers, you can override the site's fonts. And if you can't. The w3c.org encorage browser makes to do this.
4. No basic things like document loading feedback that usaly happens on the status bar of the browser.
5. Flash 5 still has no way to turn off sound (Grrr!).
6. It just isn't as flexible as plan old HTML/CSS2/JScript. Good luck building and maintaining a server driven site like slashdot with it.
The fact is. Flash only seem apropriot as an optional entertainment feature, and for web-designers sites.
Although.. I have seen a couple of real uses for it, like a scientifict diagram, the was animated. Wish there where more people who would use it for stuff like that, to be usefull, not just to look neat.
As a web-designer, I still like neat looking flash sites, you can do some real nice stuff with flash. But in general, I think It's overused. Alot of sites would be better off without it.
"On the other hand, (no pun intended) it's yet another friggin' standard we have to code web pages for. We already have Netscape vs. Microsoft, Computer vs. PDA/Portable, and options like XML and Javascript. Now we have something else? Arrgh!"
But the current standards, which slashdot flamed the web standards project for trying to push. Is better for blind, dissabled people, or other browsers like lynx, and palm/wap browsers.
The standards are already here to do it.
All it require is people like you to get off your ass and learn/use them. And places like slashdot to support these kinda things... Instead of shunning them.
Yes, maybe the browser re-direction was a little harsh. But if anyone accutaly bother to read the artical. They would have knowen that there where other ways the were suggested that were way more suttle.
So, really, there are no new standards for all these things. The standards are already there, and have been there for quite sometime. So don't try and shift the blame. It's there, you just too lazy to do anything about it. And so do the slack browser companies, although, the do seem to be getting the message.
"It would be better if websites could be more focused, so that bandwith use by individual pages could be more limited, or at least so that coding could be more focused. "
True, but it just seems to be the thing to do on slashdot thes days. Post a negitive opintionish type post istread of thinking up something decent to say about it (positive or negitive)
Last years' winner was a shopping cart system.
Anyway... not everything has to be usefull.
it also depends on your idea of usefull. I'm sure alot of the concepts could be taken and out and put to use.
Well then.. how about the BigPess contest?
People can make the most pessimistic site, sent it in and you can judge them and decide which site is the least though out, lame, pessimistic, no sence of fun and ignorate?
Sounds like a cool idea? Cause by the tone of your post, It seems right up your ally.
Please.. it's just a bit of fun, don't spoil it for others just becasue you don't like it. If you don't like it, don't f'n go to there. Just don't moan on about how bad it is to others.
We're spending billions of dollars (a big chunk of our GDP) on national defense. And we never even use it!
Well shit... maybe you should consider spending that money on things like HEALTH and EDUCATION!!!
...give it to them old-fashioned American style
Ah... whats that again? Is that when you Send off all your young men that you don't want to a war you made up, and kill inocent women and children? Souly for the perpous of making propaganda against 'evil communists' for the media? So can make more money?
Oh hell yeah. I sure the US ecomomy will boom. You can start making more weapons, and sell then to the US and foreign millitary.
People like you realy scare me... I hope you go off and die in your fake war before you have too much of a chance to harm anyone else.
Whatever happened to the day when a person saved up for something?
That person not here. That person saving up money to by a computer so they can to reply to this comment.
Seriously though... This is the situation I'm in:
I need new computer so I can do stuff like video editing etc.
If I save up...it's going to take me a while, maybe a year. If I get it on a loan or credit card. I can get it now. And use it to make money, to help pay it off faster.
I spose it depends on what you are buying/how much/what for, etc. But I know what you mean.
There are lots of people who go overboard with things like credit cards.
The core of the anti-smoking movement is completely hypocritical precisely because they favor legalization of tobacco.
Hardly, they're 2 different kettle of fish
The reason people are wanting to sue the tobacco companies is becasue they lied about it, they knew it was addictive, but said it wasn't. And because people clam that they add chemicals to there products for the soul intention of making it more addictive.
Thats totaly differnt to the legalization of taobacco.
I'm in favor of legal tobacco, but I'm against smoking. I think the people should be able to do what they want interms of drugs. Dosen't mean I support smoking though.
Please tell me how I'm a hypocrite.
If they want to make it a moral thing. then they'll force the tobbaco companies to payout to everyone they lied to, they'll admit that they lied to people about the heath issues with smoking, they'll admit that they add chemical to tobacco to make it more addictive, and they'll stop putting those chemicals in.
It's not the distribution that's the problem...
on
Open Courses at MIT
·
· Score: 1
It's not so much about how to distribute the video. It's the setting up, planning, tapping, editing, formating, and orginizing of it all.
All of that takes alot of time/money, and all but the formatting (converting blah to real/quicktime/etc..) takes human time and effort.
Even if they could serve it to people at 100MBs, fullscreen PAL/NSTC/HDTV, all totaly for free, there would still be alot of work involved.
the company hacks into the computer, puts copyrighted info on it.
[company] How did this infomation get on your HD?
[person] I don't know! It must been copied on somehow without me knowing.
[company] Thats just silly, we know the only way this could happen is if you coppied it on your self. Framing is a phycological myth, along with scams. And we'd never do something like that even if we could.
[person] Huh?
company sues person for $1,000,000....makes $700,000 profits on the case after expenses.
Yeah sure... It sounds far fetch right now doesn't it. But just wait 20 years. Of course, it won't be about copyrighted info on a computer, but genetic material.
Basically it's the equivalent of a Armored car spilling it's cash all over your property: You don't own it just because it landed on your property.
While I totaly dissagree with that. It is still flawed anyway. In the fact that who ever owned or spilt the money, would have to pay to clean it up. A proper anualogy would be more like "If an oil tanker spills its oil on your lake, then the oil company should clean it up, and compensate for contamination or your lake." Their truck spilt the seeds, they clean it up. It's not his responsibility to clean up there mess. Especialy when they made the mess.
Even if this guy is guilty. It could easly happen to someone else. Especialy now that they won the case. What's stopping the company from throwing seeds onto someones farm, and them suing them?
Slashdot Mirror
No, mostly... I for was a loyal user of Netscape, until about 6 months ago. When I strated to learn the new HTML4 CSS2 and XML standards. Now I never open up NN, except to seem how badly NN renders one of my pages. And If I will need to make a seperate site for it.
Sure, MS where pigs by forcing OEM's to not sell NN, and they did the have the upperhand because they could bundle it with there OS (no that there's anything wrong with that). But NN didn't exactly try to stay alive, by making a decent browser, the did one or all of the folloing: Support standards, fast and reliable, add new inivative(not inivative in the MS sence) features.
The main point in the case is silly, and should never have been brought up. I like getting an OS and getting a whole lot of usefull software with it. There is nothing wrong with bundeling software. There is also nothing wrong(even though it may no be the best thihng to do) with not providing an uninstall option for the bundled software.
What is wrong, is when MS try to prevent other non-MS software from running on windows. Wheather that may be code in the OS, or threatening retailers, licencing policies etc...
Really? Whats so bad about USB? Sure, Firewire might be better (even though most PC's don't come starnard with it). But having a mouse connected to a firewire port is a bit of a waste IMHO, even though you can run multiple devices.
I have to dissagree with you opintion on win2k. I'm not a MS supporter, but I've been using win98se for the last 2 years. Just moved to a new PC, with win2k, A few teething problems. But it beats the pants of win98se. But I do see your point. there arn't that many great changes to the OS other than stability (which should have been there in the frst place).
You don;t have to un-instal the software to use other programs. Just don't use it. It's simple as that really.
Sure, you could say that this is prevented ,by MS chaging the API's (or what ever they are). Making it harder for 3rd party ppl to compete with MS. But that's got nothing to do with MS bundeling stuff.
The most annoying thing I find with /. is that people don't attack what is acctually casuing the problems all the time.
MS including software, intergating apps into the OS is a good thing.
MS slowly chainging APIs, Making it difficult to insatll 3rd party stuff, threating retailers with and the whole OEM thing, is a bad thing, complain about that.
I think it's about time MS included stuff like this. OS's are evolving. I expect an OS to be able to get me on the net, use email, PIM's, whatch DVD's listen to MP3z, and especialy burn CD's, right out of the box.
I guess that makes me one of those guys who has a few cars, in bits, lying around in the back yard. Waiting to be re-built into something.
Many people become acuatom to not reading licences. I know I never do. But then again, a OME licence is a bit differnt (bigger responsibility kinda thing I mean).
But seriously, The day /. decides to up-grade, and use usefull things like CSS, is the say that MS decided to make a 100% standards complient browser.
The cool thing with CSS, is you can compleatly control the entire site, including achived stuff, with one (or more) CSS file. /.
And of course, there is no need for a slashdot, light version, since lynx and other stuff ignores style sheets. A CSS system would be godsent on a site like
And when I mean, change the look, I mean everything, not just the fonts. I think alot of people think that CSS is just a font thing. But you can easly make a page with no tables, and have it look just the same, probably better. As well as put the code for the content before the other stuff, so it appears first for people not using CSS, and they don't have to scroll though the entire left menu to get to the content every time.
But untill browsers support these things properly, people let go of old browers, and people change there web-design practices, it ain't gona happen.
"We're out to get you.... haha HAHA MLUUUUHAHAHAHAHAHHAAAAAAA. We know know where you live to!! AHAHAHAH HAA ha! AAAAHHHHH HA HA HA HAAAAA!! HA hAHAHAHAAH...
Then they might leave it behide. Getting them to leave is all psycological. If they really think your a whacked-out, pshyco boy, they arn't gona hang round for long.
Or maybe you could have a prog that would alow you to set off an alarm system aswell.
2. Editable
3. Catagorizable
4. Databases
5. Stopwhatch
6. Sofisticated alarm
7. Calculator
8. Faster to search though (and reliable to)
9. eBook (I can hold at least 10 novels)
10. Viewable in the dark
11. All the other computer type programs that don't work on paper
12. No matter how much stuff you take with you in it. It never gets bigger
13. The geek factor
14. Oh yeah. Dictionary, that's always handy
15. Like someone else said, you can back it up in a few seconds
16. Syncs with the computer, so you don't have to write/type stuff twice
17. And yes... the games to I spose, that's always a bonus.
1. No way to bookmark a page
2. No basic things like right click (no more right click, open link in new window, which I use alot).
3. No way to adjust the fonts if really needed (visuasly impared). At least with browsers, you can override the site's fonts. And if you can't. The w3c.org encorage browser makes to do this.
4. No basic things like document loading feedback that usaly happens on the status bar of the browser.
5. Flash 5 still has no way to turn off sound (Grrr!).
6. It just isn't as flexible as plan old HTML/CSS2/JScript. Good luck building and maintaining a server driven site like slashdot with it.
The fact is. Flash only seem apropriot as an optional entertainment feature, and for web-designers sites.
Although.. I have seen a couple of real uses for it, like a scientifict diagram, the was animated. Wish there where more people who would use it for stuff like that, to be usefull, not just to look neat.
As a web-designer, I still like neat looking flash sites, you can do some real nice stuff with flash. But in general, I think It's overused. Alot of sites would be better off without it.
The standards are already here to do it.
All it require is people like you to get off your ass and learn/use them. And places like slashdot to support these kinda things... Instead of shunning them.
Yes, maybe the browser re-direction was a little harsh. But if anyone accutaly bother to read the artical. They would have knowen that there where other ways the were suggested that were way more suttle.
So, really, there are no new standards for all these things. The standards are already there, and have been there for quite sometime. So don't try and shift the blame. It's there, you just too lazy to do anything about it. And so do the slack browser companies, although, the do seem to be getting the message.
"It would be better if websites could be more focused, so that bandwith use by individual pages could be more limited, or at least so that coding could be more focused. "
CSS2, XML/XHTML, look for them on www.w3c.org
Anyway... not everything has to be usefull.
it also depends on your idea of usefull. I'm sure alot of the concepts could be taken and out and put to use.
People can make the most pessimistic site, sent it in and you can judge them and decide which site is the least though out, lame, pessimistic, no sence of fun and ignorate?
Sounds like a cool idea? Cause by the tone of your post, It seems right up your ally.
Please.. it's just a bit of fun, don't spoil it for others just becasue you don't like it. If you don't like it, don't f'n go to there. Just don't moan on about how bad it is to others.
Well shit... maybe you should consider spending that money on things like HEALTH and EDUCATION!!!
Ah... whats that again? Is that when you Send off all your young men that you don't want to a war you made up, and kill inocent women and children? Souly for the perpous of making propaganda against 'evil communists' for the media? So can make more money?
Oh hell yeah. I sure the US ecomomy will boom. You can start making more weapons, and sell then to the US and foreign millitary.
People like you realy scare me... I hope you go off and die in your fake war before you have too much of a chance to harm anyone else.
That person not here. That person saving up money to by a computer so they can to reply to this comment.
Seriously though... This is the situation I'm in:
I need new computer so I can do stuff like video editing etc.
If I save up...it's going to take me a while, maybe a year. If I get it on a loan or credit card. I can get it now. And use it to make money, to help pay it off faster.
I spose it depends on what you are buying/how much/what for, etc. But I know what you mean. There are lots of people who go overboard with things like credit cards.
Hardly, they're 2 different kettle of fish
The reason people are wanting to sue the tobacco companies is becasue they lied about it, they knew it was addictive, but said it wasn't. And because people clam that they add chemicals to there products for the soul intention of making it more addictive.
Thats totaly differnt to the legalization of taobacco.
I'm in favor of legal tobacco, but I'm against smoking. I think the people should be able to do what they want interms of drugs. Dosen't mean I support smoking though.
Please tell me how I'm a hypocrite.
If they want to make it a moral thing. then they'll force the tobbaco companies to payout to everyone they lied to, they'll admit that they lied to people about the heath issues with smoking, they'll admit that they add chemical to tobacco to make it more addictive, and they'll stop putting those chemicals in.
All of that takes alot of time/money, and all but the formatting (converting blah to real/quicktime/etc..) takes human time and effort.
Even if they could serve it to people at 100MBs, fullscreen PAL/NSTC/HDTV, all totaly for free, there would still be alot of work involved.
the company hacks into the computer, puts copyrighted info on it.
[company] How did this infomation get on your HD?
[person] I don't know! It must been copied on somehow without me knowing.
[company] Thats just silly, we know the only way this could happen is if you coppied it on your self. Framing is a phycological myth, along with scams. And we'd never do something like that even if we could.
[person] Huh?
company sues person for $1,000,000....makes $700,000 profits on the case after expenses.
Yeah sure... It sounds far fetch right now doesn't it. But just wait 20 years. Of course, it won't be about copyrighted info on a computer, but genetic material.
While I totaly dissagree with that. It is still flawed anyway. In the fact that who ever owned or spilt the money, would have to pay to clean it up. A proper anualogy would be more like "If an oil tanker spills its oil on your lake, then the oil company should clean it up, and compensate for contamination or your lake."
Their truck spilt the seeds, they clean it up. It's not his responsibility to clean up there mess. Especialy when they made the mess.
Even if this guy is guilty. It could easly happen to someone else. Especialy now that they won the case. What's stopping the company from throwing seeds onto someones farm, and them suing them?