Provided it is a nice European carrier like Lufthansa
Woah? You're holding Lufthansa as a paragon of commercial airliners? I knew American airline service was crap but I had no idea how bad it really was.
IME Lufthansa ranks way below the richer Asian airlines (Singapore, Thai, Cathay Pacific, Emirates) in terms of in-flight service and aircraft quality. I specifically avoid flying Lufthansa when planning overseas trips.
I always thought that was a misleading phrase since in theory there is plenty of difference between theory and practice. Isn't there? Does anyone really think all our currently accepted scientific theories predict the world accurately under all conditions?
The school STILL NEEDS TO FEED HIM regardless and can not legally allow him to go without lunch
What? Really? I thought I lived in a 'nanny state' but I don't think this has been implemented here for a very long time. We were poor when I grew up. I never went hungry but I very rarely bought food from the school cafe, and they certainly didn't give it away for free.
How does this fit in with the 'socialism is evil' mindset of the majority of Americans? This seems like a perfect (good?) example of socialism. Not trolling, just pointing out some major inconsistencies in viewpoints.
They used the explosions to extinguish the fires. The idea is that the oil fires are 'slow' sustainable reactions. A much larger fast reaction (an explosion) uses all the oxygen in the surrounding area and the initial fire can't sustain itself.
Hopefully you agree that having less generation than demand isn't a stable position for the grid to be in.
With large levels of wind penetration, there are going to be times when it's not blowing. Brownouts are one of the options, and they're used in some parts of the world. Apparently Germany has opted to cover these periods by having lots of redundant generation.
Building OCGTs is a cost, dropping load is also a cost. Either way, having large amounts of wind on a system imposes costs.
Another thing to bear in mind is that the best sites get taken first. As developers work their way down the list of profitable wind sites, the capacity factor gets lower and lower.
That wind farm? Probably generates at least something 90% of the time.
People in general are confusing events of differing time spans. If nuclear plant experiences a forced outage then this needs to be covered in a matter of seconds.
The sources which cover this are interruptible industrial load (ie. you flick a switch in large industrial users and reduce demand), and increasing output from existing generation (ie, all your other plant which are running in their most efficient mode switch to their maximum output for a few minutes). Each of these situations cost money to do this each time it happens, it is most certainly not a case of 'if you can cover it once a month, then you won't mind doing it every hour'.
Your previous post suggested that fast starting gas plant would cover this scenario and that is inaccurate. You also said that coal plants couldn't respond to this, which is also incorrect, because they are one of the main providers of the second type of response I listed above.
All of that is pretty much irrelevant to the case of wind generation. Wind generation changes over a matter of minutes to hours, not over a matter of seconds.
Don't take that as a criticism of wind farms, because I believe they have their place in a diverse power system. However, their cost should reflect the stress they impose on the power system.
Currently wind farms get a free ride in that they don't provide any support to the power system, while at the same time they make it more unstable and they don't pay anything for that. This is a clear case of externalities. (Is that the correct way to use the term 'externalities'?)
It turns out that managing a diverse national power grid has a substantial component of solar and wind power is exactly like managing one that doesn't.
No it really isn't. Adding in intermittent supply to a system with intermittent demand makes the supply/demand balance much harder to get right.
The power fluctuations are no worse than fluctuation in demand
When everyone wakes up and turns on their toaster in the morning power usage goes up. This is highly predictable behaviour and over the course of morning, the demand will trend up. The rate of this change is a little bit variable, but it has nothing on wind farm variability.
Increases of +/- 30% are regularly observed over 15 minute periods on individual wind farms, and with current methods this is mostly unpredictable. In fact, with current forecasting quality the best way to forecast within a couple of hours is to use a persistent forecast (ie what is happening is what you forecast).
I concede that forecasting quality could be massively improved if windfarms were incentivized to do so, but their output will always be more variable than demand, and to suggest otherwise is highly inaccurate.
My girlfriend's dad served in haiti as a peacekeeper with the UN. There were US soldiers serving there at the same time filling the same role.
He tells a great story about how he drove around in UN open-air jeeps, talked to the locals, showed his presence with his uniform and 'kept the peace'.
The Americans drove around in armoured trucks, with body-armour, and standard operating procedure was to treat everyone as a possible threat. The soldiers talked to people down the barrel of a gun.
Guess which group the locals liked better?
*I realise that America provided massive amounts of relief to Haiti after the recent earthquake. If only your soldiers were such great ambassadors*
They ran into this problem with daily cooldowns in WoW. It gradually gets pushed back later and later since you're invariably going to be a few minutes late at times. Eventually it's a choice of go to bed or stay awake to do daily transmutes.
Luckily they realized this and changed the all the cooldowns to 23 hours. Problem solved.
Slashdot Mirror
This assumes that they are interconnected.
It be possible to have two independently pressurised tubes side by side, but I'm not sure how that would work in practice.
Provided it is a nice European carrier like Lufthansa
Woah? You're holding Lufthansa as a paragon of commercial airliners? I knew American airline service was crap but I had no idea how bad it really was.
IME Lufthansa ranks way below the richer Asian airlines (Singapore, Thai, Cathay Pacific, Emirates) in terms of in-flight service and aircraft quality. I specifically avoid flying Lufthansa when planning overseas trips.
Your (air) mileage may vary, of course.
It's my understanding that drag increases as the square of velocity. This leads to fuel consumption per unit of distance increasing linearly.
Go twice as fast, use twice as much fuel getting there. Your rate of fuel consumption is four times higher, but you spend half the time getting there.
Brilliant - And then feed all the oil soaked hay to cows. We'll have pre-greased steak next year.
+1 tasty.
I always thought that was a misleading phrase since in theory there is plenty of difference between theory and practice. Isn't there? Does anyone really think all our currently accepted scientific theories predict the world accurately under all conditions?
The biggest help I've gotten about OSS has been from knowledgeable folk on forums. (And I've never been the one asking the question)
So? She'll be smart enough to say the right things to the right people while knowing that they're clueless retards.
Seriously, I don't see how being smart is ever a disadvantage.
The school STILL NEEDS TO FEED HIM regardless and can not legally allow him to go without lunch
What? Really? I thought I lived in a 'nanny state' but I don't think this has been implemented here for a very long time. We were poor when I grew up. I never went hungry but I very rarely bought food from the school cafe, and they certainly didn't give it away for free.
How does this fit in with the 'socialism is evil' mindset of the majority of Americans? This seems like a perfect (good?) example of socialism. Not trolling, just pointing out some major inconsistencies in viewpoints.
They used the explosions to extinguish the fires. The idea is that the oil fires are 'slow' sustainable reactions. A much larger fast reaction (an explosion) uses all the oxygen in the surrounding area and the initial fire can't sustain itself.
I'm pretty sure that most users have never heard of system restore points.
Also, please don't assume that I live in a place that experiences brownouts. You're making some incorrect assumptions.
Hopefully you agree that having less generation than demand isn't a stable position for the grid to be in.
With large levels of wind penetration, there are going to be times when it's not blowing. Brownouts are one of the options, and they're used in some parts of the world. Apparently Germany has opted to cover these periods by having lots of redundant generation.
Building OCGTs is a cost, dropping load is also a cost. Either way, having large amounts of wind on a system imposes costs.
Another thing to bear in mind is that the best sites get taken first. As developers work their way down the list of profitable wind sites, the capacity factor gets lower and lower.
That wind farm? Probably generates at least something 90% of the time.
The next one? It will generate less often.
And so on.
Guess what often happens in these situations? Brownouts!
Managing a nation power grid with lots of wind and solar power is exactly like managing one without it.
No, it makes brownouts much more likely to happen.
People in general are confusing events of differing time spans. If nuclear plant experiences a forced outage then this needs to be covered in a matter of seconds.
The sources which cover this are interruptible industrial load (ie. you flick a switch in large industrial users and reduce demand), and increasing output from existing generation (ie, all your other plant which are running in their most efficient mode switch to their maximum output for a few minutes). Each of these situations cost money to do this each time it happens, it is most certainly not a case of 'if you can cover it once a month, then you won't mind doing it every hour'.
Your previous post suggested that fast starting gas plant would cover this scenario and that is inaccurate. You also said that coal plants couldn't respond to this, which is also incorrect, because they are one of the main providers of the second type of response I listed above.
All of that is pretty much irrelevant to the case of wind generation. Wind generation changes over a matter of minutes to hours, not over a matter of seconds.
Don't take that as a criticism of wind farms, because I believe they have their place in a diverse power system. However, their cost should reflect the stress they impose on the power system.
Currently wind farms get a free ride in that they don't provide any support to the power system, while at the same time they make it more unstable and they don't pay anything for that. This is a clear case of externalities. (Is that the correct way to use the term 'externalities'?)
It turns out that managing a diverse national power grid has a substantial component of solar and wind power is exactly like managing one that doesn't.
No it really isn't. Adding in intermittent supply to a system with intermittent demand makes the supply/demand balance much harder to get right.
The power fluctuations are no worse than fluctuation in demand
When everyone wakes up and turns on their toaster in the morning power usage goes up. This is highly predictable behaviour and over the course of morning, the demand will trend up. The rate of this change is a little bit variable, but it has nothing on wind farm variability.
Increases of +/- 30% are regularly observed over 15 minute periods on individual wind farms, and with current methods this is mostly unpredictable. In fact, with current forecasting quality the best way to forecast within a couple of hours is to use a persistent forecast (ie what is happening is what you forecast).
I concede that forecasting quality could be massively improved if windfarms were incentivized to do so, but their output will always be more variable than demand, and to suggest otherwise is highly inaccurate.
Ah ha! Bad analogy guy reveals his other UID.
If you haven't heard of it, it doesn't do what you want it to.
Disclaimer: I work for Ubisoft.
I never would have guessed.
I had no idea what 'the rhythm method' was so I googled it.
Very disappointed, it sounded fun.
H.U.M.A.N! H.U.M.A.N!
Then you'd be a sucker, falling for the very trap that Al Qaida set for you.
No, I think that's the Americans who behave in the way shown on this video. I doubt there's a shortage of willing suicide bombers in Iraq.
My girlfriend's dad served in haiti as a peacekeeper with the UN. There were US soldiers serving there at the same time filling the same role.
He tells a great story about how he drove around in UN open-air jeeps, talked to the locals, showed his presence with his uniform and 'kept the peace'.
The Americans drove around in armoured trucks, with body-armour, and standard operating procedure was to treat everyone as a possible threat. The soldiers talked to people down the barrel of a gun.
Guess which group the locals liked better?
*I realise that America provided massive amounts of relief to Haiti after the recent earthquake. If only your soldiers were such great ambassadors*
They ran into this problem with daily cooldowns in WoW. It gradually gets pushed back later and later since you're invariably going to be a few minutes late at times. Eventually it's a choice of go to bed or stay awake to do daily transmutes.
Luckily they realized this and changed the all the cooldowns to 23 hours. Problem solved.