yeah, you're probably right, "Stress byproducts" is a non-valid term, I should not have recycled it. It sounded good.
However, seeing as how this is/. and we can't all be animal scientists, we can still argue from a "common sense" and logical perspective, can't we? However, you are the expert, so... would you care to give a little on terminology and comment on the probably stress on the animal if your education qualifies you to comment expertly in this area of animal science? I realize that your specific expertise may lie in another of the subfields, if so, please feel free to decline to comment, publicly.
Cows are happy pretty much anywhere they don't have to swat flies. Treating a cow like a human is sheer stupidity because it would make them miserable.
I can see that you know a lot about cows. For the unenlightened, can you kindly explain how you determine that a cow is happy? Being that I (like others on/.) am scientifically oriented, I expect that you'll refer to FMRI screenings or other equally scientific methods of determining happiness in contrasting environments. Ad-hominem attacks are a good opener, but, please, bring the meat.
I have no citations but am going to guess that the contrast regarding stress was between a cow grazing in an open field vs being held captive and "forced" to walk on a treadmill. I find it a little weird that the cow "has" to walk (if it didn't, no electricity would be generated) so I imagine the treadmill is inclined to such a degree that the cow is constantly, if slowly, falling back away from the food so has to walk to get near it again. Thus it is really functioning as a dead weight forcing the treadmill back then setting itself back at the top, near the food, only to fall back away from the food again. Sisyphus, was a bit stressed so I imagine so would the cows be seeing as how the job is essentially the same.
I'd suggest looking for stress byproducts in milk with no relation to exercise, since the stressor here isn't activity but rather the captivity and forced nature of the work being done by the cow. Do lactating humans produce milk with a different chemical makeup when in forced-labor conditions? Is the question I suggest you should be asking.
In case it's not clear, I didn't RTFA thus my hypothesizing about the treadmill.
Then use the corn for ethanol! Why we insist on feeding 75% of our grain production to ruminants baffles me.
Probably because GMO corn tastes like shit and only animals which have no choice in the matter will ingest it. I think it's also acceptable for corn oil due to the deodorizers that they add after it becomes rancid during processing.
hmm, I was not referring to long term studies regarding eating of cultivated grains, I specifically was referring to GM grains. Know of any studies? I don't, please cite if you have any, otherwise I'll assume you agree there are none. Over 80% does not disprove my 90% claim, rather agrees with it.
Licensing and patent issues with GMOs are only a sliver of the issue. One of the big problems is that farmers aren't allowed to sue (and generally don't have the resources to sue) the Ag/Chem industrial companies when their crops become tainted with GM seeds. The main problem, for non-farmers is that no one has done studies. Who would want to anyway, the chemical/Ag industry has nothing to gain and everything to lose from any such study.
I'm glad to hear there is no GM Wheat being grown, unfortunately, it probably won't stay that way.
Making the grains better with science? Better by injecting them with foreign DNA? Then not testing longitudinally for deleterious effects? Just because the (corporate-financed) FDA gave them a pass as GRAS does not mean that they are good. It means that no one bothered to look since they were all happy with the campaign donations being received from the Ag industry.
Breeds and hybrids are different from a GMO, a GMO is an entirely different beast. A GMO is something that would never* occur in nature, no matter the pressure. You're in public education, as a teacher? Or as a paid lobbyist? If you are a professor, do you do paid(sponsored) research for the Chem/Ag industry?
I did make the exception for grass-fed. If you were feeding your cows grain, even if non-GMO, then you were feeding them outside of their evolved-for anatomical requirements. Ruminant stomachs are not for ruminating on grain, they're for grasses and the incidental seeds.
Labeling me a luddite for opposing your views does not a good argument make, so I'll not try to counter that slick logical maneuver. Maybe it's not all GMO, but a vast majority (>90% is), do you have better figures/sources than I do? GM grains boost yields at the expense of health, it's not all about yields, its about maintaining the health of the soil. I argue the world would be a better place without any grains, with the population being held at a lower stable number by natural resource (food) constraints.
You're saying that all the grain in the US (world?) should be GMO? Despite there having been no studies done on its effects on the victims that consume it? Or, can you cite any studies performed on its long term consumption?
Incidentally, do you work for ADM, Hi-Bred, or Monsanto now that you're no longer farming?
Beef, American beef is maybe second to some Japanese super pricey beef but we have bison here too.
So factory produced, grain fattened (thus the stomach ulcers), standing in shit all day, stressed out (more ulcers) beef is good for you? Or maybe you were referring to the rare (but harder to find) delicious grass fed beef that loves its life up until the day it becomes lean and tasty steaks?
And finally, grains. American breads are superior to anything in the UK. More grains grown here and superior varieties.
hmm, gotta love that GMO grain. Really? Grains? Grains are one of our more shameful products, good only for producing fuel ethanol.
from the wikipedia link: "New Mexican cuisine is a type of regional cuisine found in New Mexico, which originated there while it was still a part of Mexico."
So, I'd submit that this entry is outside the spirit of the challenge. Try something more American, maybe pizza?
subset of slashdot users wished things would remain unchanged from 1998, back when hate for Microsoft was warranted and their ability to hand code crappy html was relevant??
Probably because the users whose slashdot posts aren't "Sponsored by Microsoft" maintain a healthy level of loathing for a company that manages to be more evil on a weekly basis (eg. the corruption of the netbook concept). The problem is that there are so many astroturfers that the the unsponsored posters are starting to seem like only a handful.
then -> than percentiles -> percent I'd guess that, roughly, more than 90% of the human population has a higher IQ than you do. Suggestion: Make the changes in your "stock phrase" document, then next time you copy-and-paste them into the forum, you won't look like as much of a dunce. You'll still be a moron, just that, it won't seep out of your fingers as obviously.
That's two postings (that have been pointed out) with bad spelling from a Dad In Portland, maybe the kids got on his computer? Kids? Stop posting on Daddy's forum, you're making him look bad.
totally agree, I missed the first one, I was sort of ok with one, but two? That is sad, especially for a Dad In Portland. I think people rely too much on spell-check.
serious physicists really believe those dimensions might exist.
Serious physicists work on testable, proveable concepts. String theory is little more than an exercise in imagination and really hairy mathematics. It requires far too many variables to close and new ones are added as they realize that they can't get anything that resembles reality despite the wonderfulness of the math. I've (as an informed layman) have lost interest in this black hole for research funding. Serious physicists have too. The ones still "working" on string theory are doing so because dropping it would invalidate their entire careers.
Well, I was trying to link you, but now that link has been strengthened since you didn't disavow an affinity with the fair-and-balanced crew. My response wasn't at all hateful, was it? Did I rant at you vehemently? I was going for disdain, just to be clear. Maybe I'm not good with expressing emotions in forums, I'll work on that, thanks.
Now that we've gotten past the diversions and ad-hominem attacks, back to the off-topic argument at hand: You didn't provide citations so I'll assume the numbers you quoted are PFA. Here's why I'm finding the total CA budget at 100 B and the USA Department of Education at 47B, you're saying that CA is using its whole budget on educating...? Care to try again? Or would you like to insult my method of presentation or intellect instead?
Maybe you weren't 'deliberately including "legal US resident children,"' (see? there you go again, excluding them, that's ok, its a common tactic not hard to call out), as I said, you did include these _US_ Citizens_ in your original argument. More, you're still trying to deport legal US Citizens, read up on the law, it's what they are. Whether you and Hannity like it or not, they are, and you can't legally remove them from the country. So suck it up and pay taxes, or move to a country that works more like how you'd like it to work. Don't like that argument either, right? I know, I'm unfair, then again, you're transparent.
The children of illegal aliens are legal US Citizens (if born here), so tell Hannity and the crew at Fox news to come up with some legitimate statistics that don't demonize US Citizens.
the examples you refer to all deal with gross movement and the choices are all pretty far apart.
Have you tried drinking from a very full glass of water in pitch black? Think you could do it without spilling? In drinking water, you most certainly get visual feedback, even if only peripheral, it is good enough for the gross control you need until you get close and its just fuzzy control after all.
I actually have to look at my TIVO remote to see what button I am on. Perhaps I am defective, you are saying you can pick up the remote and without looking at it push the correct button? Of course once I am on the "up" button it is easy to keep pressing it, and even the down since it is a short distance away, but not so easy to find the "skip 30 seconds".
Visual feedback from the screen means that you're getting a delayed response telling you you're on the right or wrong key, probably not the fastest way to locate your position, especially since if you type fast, you've probably already moved on by the time that information registers.
I'm a little surprised by the tone of your response, maybe mine came off rude, but I was really curious as to how you find your way around the keyboard.
RTFA? On slashdot? And you call me a noob? All the same, I did so earlier. Lack of tumor formation does not address improvement, it merely covers lack of harm being introduced.
Go swallow your favorite snack/name, you wannabe elitist with utter lack of reading comprehension.
without looking at the keyboard you are able to let your fingers wander away? Most (all?) keyboard have a little nubbin on the home keys so you know where you are. How do you know where your fingers are, relative to the keys, without looking at the keyboard?
Slashdot Mirror
yeah, you're probably right, "Stress byproducts" is a non-valid term, I should not have recycled it. It sounded good.
/. and we can't all be animal scientists, we can still argue from a "common sense" and logical perspective, can't we? However, you are the expert, so... would you care to give a little on terminology and comment on the probably stress on the animal if your education qualifies you to comment expertly in this area of animal science?
However, seeing as how this is
I realize that your specific expertise may lie in another of the subfields, if so, please feel free to decline to comment, publicly.
Cows are happy pretty much anywhere they don't have to swat flies. Treating a cow like a human is sheer stupidity because it would make them miserable.
I can see that you know a lot about cows. For the unenlightened, can you kindly explain how you determine that a cow is happy? Being that I (like others on /.) am scientifically oriented, I expect that you'll refer to FMRI screenings or other equally scientific methods of determining happiness in contrasting environments. Ad-hominem attacks are a good opener, but, please, bring the meat.
Sunlight goes in, steak, milk, and leather coats some out.
shit, don't forget the shit. Next time, review the idea after you're both not stoned.
please see my response here for thoughts on the nature of the treadmill (developed in response to another thought):
http://hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1623484&cid=31898870
I have no citations but am going to guess that the contrast regarding stress was between a cow grazing in an open field vs being held captive and "forced" to walk on a treadmill. I find it a little weird that the cow "has" to walk (if it didn't, no electricity would be generated) so I imagine the treadmill is inclined to such a degree that the cow is constantly, if slowly, falling back away from the food so has to walk to get near it again. Thus it is really functioning as a dead weight forcing the treadmill back then setting itself back at the top, near the food, only to fall back away from the food again. Sisyphus, was a bit stressed so I imagine so would the cows be seeing as how the job is essentially the same.
I'd suggest looking for stress byproducts in milk with no relation to exercise, since the stressor here isn't activity but rather the captivity and forced nature of the work being done by the cow. Do lactating humans produce milk with a different chemical makeup when in forced-labor conditions? Is the question I suggest you should be asking.
In case it's not clear, I didn't RTFA thus my hypothesizing about the treadmill.
Then use the corn for ethanol! Why we insist on feeding 75% of our grain production to ruminants baffles me.
Probably because GMO corn tastes like shit and only animals which have no choice in the matter will ingest it. I think it's also acceptable for corn oil due to the deodorizers that they add after it becomes rancid during processing.
hmm, I was not referring to long term studies regarding eating of cultivated grains, I specifically was referring to GM grains. Know of any studies? I don't, please cite if you have any, otherwise I'll assume you agree there are none. Over 80% does not disprove my 90% claim, rather agrees with it.
Licensing and patent issues with GMOs are only a sliver of the issue. One of the big problems is that farmers aren't allowed to sue (and generally don't have the resources to sue) the Ag/Chem industrial companies when their crops become tainted with GM seeds. The main problem, for non-farmers is that no one has done studies. Who would want to anyway, the chemical/Ag industry has nothing to gain and everything to lose from any such study.
I'm glad to hear there is no GM Wheat being grown, unfortunately, it probably won't stay that way.
Making the grains better with science? Better by injecting them with foreign DNA? Then not testing longitudinally for deleterious effects? Just because the (corporate-financed) FDA gave them a pass as GRAS does not mean that they are good. It means that no one bothered to look since they were all happy with the campaign donations being received from the Ag industry.
Breeds and hybrids are different from a GMO, a GMO is an entirely different beast. A GMO is something that would never* occur in nature, no matter the pressure. You're in public education, as a teacher? Or as a paid lobbyist? If you are a professor, do you do paid(sponsored) research for the Chem/Ag industry?
*never say never- still, very rare
I did make the exception for grass-fed. If you were feeding your cows grain, even if non-GMO, then you were feeding them outside of their evolved-for anatomical requirements. Ruminant stomachs are not for ruminating on grain, they're for grasses and the incidental seeds.
Labeling me a luddite for opposing your views does not a good argument make, so I'll not try to counter that slick logical maneuver. Maybe it's not all GMO, but a vast majority (>90% is), do you have better figures/sources than I do? GM grains boost yields at the expense of health, it's not all about yields, its about maintaining the health of the soil. I argue the world would be a better place without any grains, with the population being held at a lower stable number by natural resource (food) constraints.
You're saying that all the grain in the US (world?) should be GMO? Despite there having been no studies done on its effects on the victims that consume it? Or, can you cite any studies performed on its long term consumption?
Incidentally, do you work for ADM, Hi-Bred, or Monsanto now that you're no longer farming?
Beef, American beef is maybe second to some Japanese super pricey beef but we have bison here too.
So factory produced, grain fattened (thus the stomach ulcers), standing in shit all day, stressed out (more ulcers) beef is good for you? Or maybe you were referring to the rare (but harder to find) delicious grass fed beef that loves its life up until the day it becomes lean and tasty steaks?
And finally, grains. American breads are superior to anything in the UK. More grains grown here and superior varieties.
hmm, gotta love that GMO grain. Really? Grains? Grains are one of our more shameful products, good only for producing fuel ethanol.
That does seem unfair, more so since it's more a Mexican dish that stayed when the border got shifted
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Mexican_cuisine
from the wikipedia link:
"New Mexican cuisine is a type of regional cuisine found in New Mexico, which originated there while it was still a part of Mexico."
So, I'd submit that this entry is outside the spirit of the challenge. Try something more American, maybe pizza?
links please. Don't say firewalled in some private company cause that would be utter bullshit.
subset of slashdot users wished things would remain unchanged from 1998, back when hate for Microsoft was warranted and their ability to hand code crappy html was relevant??
Probably because the users whose slashdot posts aren't "Sponsored by Microsoft" maintain a healthy level of loathing for a company that manages to be more evil on a weekly basis (eg. the corruption of the netbook concept). The problem is that there are so many astroturfers that the the unsponsored posters are starting to seem like only a handful.
then -> than
percentiles -> percent
I'd guess that, roughly, more than 90% of the human population has a higher IQ than you do.
Suggestion: Make the changes in your "stock phrase" document, then next time you copy-and-paste them into the forum, you won't look like as much of a dunce. You'll still be a moron, just that, it won't seep out of your fingers as obviously.
That's two postings (that have been pointed out) with bad spelling from a Dad In Portland, maybe the kids got on his computer? Kids? Stop posting on Daddy's forum, you're making him look bad.
totally agree, I missed the first one, I was sort of ok with one, but two? That is sad, especially for a Dad In Portland. I think people rely too much on spell-check.
serious physicists really believe those dimensions might exist.
Serious physicists work on testable, proveable concepts. String theory is little more than an exercise in imagination and really hairy mathematics. It requires far too many variables to close and new ones are added as they realize that they can't get anything that resembles reality despite the wonderfulness of the math. I've (as an informed layman) have lost interest in this black hole for research funding. Serious physicists have too. The ones still "working" on string theory are doing so because dropping it would invalidate their entire careers.
Nice.
And we won the only fight between our nations, captured huge amounts of land from you, and then let you have most of it back as part of a peace deal.
Didn't know that. Dumbasses! LOL
we resort to keeping them in pens for their Milk and Eggsr.
Seals lay eggs? Shit! I've got to read up more on marine mammal reproduction.
pictures please
Well, I was trying to link you, but now that link has been strengthened since you didn't disavow an affinity with the fair-and-balanced crew. My response wasn't at all hateful, was it? Did I rant at you vehemently? I was going for disdain, just to be clear. Maybe I'm not good with expressing emotions in forums, I'll work on that, thanks.
Now that we've gotten past the diversions and ad-hominem attacks, back to the off-topic argument at hand: You didn't provide citations so I'll assume the numbers you quoted are PFA. Here's why I'm finding the total CA budget at 100 B and the USA Department of Education at 47B, you're saying that CA is using its whole budget on educating...? Care to try again? Or would you like to insult my method of presentation or intellect instead?
Maybe you weren't 'deliberately including "legal US resident children,"' (see? there you go again, excluding them, that's ok, its a common tactic not hard to call out), as I said, you did include these _US_ Citizens_ in your original argument. More, you're still trying to deport legal US Citizens, read up on the law, it's what they are. Whether you and Hannity like it or not, they are, and you can't legally remove them from the country. So suck it up and pay taxes, or move to a country that works more like how you'd like it to work. Don't like that argument either, right? I know, I'm unfair, then again, you're transparent.
The children of illegal aliens are legal US Citizens (if born here), so tell Hannity and the crew at Fox news to come up with some legitimate statistics that don't demonize US Citizens.
Exactly! The comparison makes no sense. It's like saying your muffler is a far better car than Ford Pinto!
Chances are it is.
the examples you refer to all deal with gross movement and the choices are all pretty far apart.
Have you tried drinking from a very full glass of water in pitch black? Think you could do it without spilling? In drinking water, you most certainly get visual feedback, even if only peripheral, it is good enough for the gross control you need until you get close and its just fuzzy control after all.
I actually have to look at my TIVO remote to see what button I am on. Perhaps I am defective, you are saying you can pick up the remote and without looking at it push the correct button? Of course once I am on the "up" button it is easy to keep pressing it, and even the down since it is a short distance away, but not so easy to find the "skip 30 seconds".
Visual feedback from the screen means that you're getting a delayed response telling you you're on the right or wrong key, probably not the fastest way to locate your position, especially since if you type fast, you've probably already moved on by the time that information registers.
I'm a little surprised by the tone of your response, maybe mine came off rude, but I was really curious as to how you find your way around the keyboard.
RTFA? On slashdot? And you call me a noob? All the same, I did so earlier. Lack of tumor formation does not address improvement, it merely covers lack of harm being introduced. Go swallow your favorite snack/name, you wannabe elitist with utter lack of reading comprehension.
without looking at the keyboard you are able to let your fingers wander away? Most (all?) keyboard have a little nubbin on the home keys so you know where you are. How do you know where your fingers are, relative to the keys, without looking at the keyboard?