Commodore 64 Primed For a Comeback In June

angry tapir writes "The Commodore 64 is getting a makeover, with a new design and some of the latest computing technologies, as the brand gets primed for a comeback. The revamped computer will be available through the Commodore USA online store, which is set to open June 1. The computer will be an all-in-one keyboard, with Intel's 64-bit quad-core microprocessors and 3D graphics capabilities."

Comments

Clear Hoax

[1karmik1]

Look. at. the. site. It's a chinese 3rd rate gadget imitator wet dream. There is a pseudo-configuration page vaguely mimicking Dell's one with no functionality. No logo. No design. and GOD that heinous thing in the pictures looks CLUNKY and CHEAP. This is a hoax. /. have seen several in the past years tied to the good old C64. I'm very surprised it made the front page :(

Re:Clear Hoax

[Jaysyn]

Look. at. the. site.

Trying. I think it's dead Jim.

Re:Clear Hoax

[1karmik1]

Slashdotted, nice! Anyway, the site i meant was the homepage of this supposed "manufacturer" that licensed Commodore's brand. Here is the link. http://www.commodoreusa.net/index.html It's ludicrous :P

Re:Clear Hoax

[Anonymous Coward]

10 PRINT CHR$(147)

Re:Clear Hoax

[XiX36]

I am suspicious as well, the built-in keyboard has windows keys. If it is being marketed as a machine to run multiple OS's, why not put the old C= symbol on those keys. Since they are using the name, why not use the logo as well? It's a minor point, but if this is real and they are resurrecting the name to appeal to those of us who remember messing around with Commodores then details like that might matter a bit. Certainly anyone who remembers playing around with basic on the livingroom tv could figure out that the C= key functions as a windows button.

Re:Clear Hoax

[paazin]

Oh, how the mighty have fallen.

You'd probably have little doubt that the site is genuine, if you simply examined it further. It really is rather pathetic -- they're looking for people to only purchase this slapped together crap for nostalgia's sake.

No news story here folks, just another company trying to peddle something no one will buy.

Re:Clear Hoax

[postbigbang]

Sustaining six connections per minute is all a C64 can do. No wonder it's slashdotted.

Re:Clear Hoax

[Svippy]

Look. at. the. site. It's a chinese 3rd rate gadget imitator wet dream. There is a pseudo-configuration page vaguely mimicking Dell's one with no functionality. No logo. No design. and GOD that heinous thing in the pictures looks CLUNKY and CHEAP. This is a hoax. /. have seen several in the past years tied to the good old C64. I'm very surprised it made the front page :(

I think it is legit enough. Commodore USA is a registered company in the United States, and their site is quite clearly commodoreusa.net

The actual issue is not so much that it looks like a hoax, but that it is so endlessly poorly carried out. It's pathetic! It's like watching Birdemic , a product that tries to itself seriously, while everyone around it is laughing (and possibly crying a little inside).

Re:Clear Hoax

[quantumpineal]

Sounds a bit like an Xbox?

Re:Clear Hoax

[Anonymous Coward]

I EXIF metadata of the picture shows a date taken of 12/2006. But the model of camera is a Phase One P45 which is NOT cheap at all.

Re:Clear Hoax

[GodfatherofSoul]

This is the new Slashdot. Are you really *that* surprised?

Re:Clear Hoax

[hob42]

Wouldn't say it's a hoax... This keyboard PC has been on the market for years. This company sells it as the ZPC (for Zero-footprint PC).

Frankly, I wondered why it took so long for someone to decide to rebadge one as a Commodore. It was the first thing that came to my mind when I saw it.

Re:Clear Hoax

[Anonymous Coward]

YAY TIMOTHY. Timothy stories are the best.

We need to get rid of Timothy and get rid of all the 'I-learned-about-Linux-cause-Ubuntu-is-for-hackers-like-me' kids. Please return to your former glory slashdot!

Re:Clear Hoax

[that this is not und]

The actual issue is not so much that it looks like a hoax, but that it is so endlessly poorly carried out.

I would tend to agree. But the original C64 was poorly carried out, too, so this as a nostalgia product has some merit.

Now, before people roll out of the shag carpeting to rage at me, the C64 was an inexpensive and well marketed, but technically second rate product. I mean, they put a whole second 6502-type processor in the disk drive and set the machine up to read/write from the disk over a pokey-doke serial interface. That was never impressive. Adding a Hard Disk to your C64 system amounted to again buying a whole separate subsystem significantly more expensive than the C64 itself that, again, was a whole separate system with another processor, that talked to your C64 over.... get this... a pokey-doke serial interface.

Not impressive, except in a marketing sense. The C64 was a marketing phenomena, and as a result many youngsters 'cut their teeth' on it. Then, said youngsters went on to make good use of their C64 in spite of what was built into the system, basically doing an end-run around the way it was set up.

Re:Clear Hoax

[Anonymous Coward]

From the News page:

On top of all this, we are diligently and fervently entrenched in the negotiations that will allow us to place this cute little logo nameplate on our all-in-one computer.

Re:Clear Hoax

[mdwh2]

It's the Apple precedence - we get front page news when there's so much as a rumour of an Islate, or that they're allegedly ordering some new parts, honest, according to some blog that speculates on a new product. So I'm not surprised at a once in a blue moon story about rumours for the Commodore 64.

Re:Clear Hoax

[Anonymous Coward]

Haha, just look at the slide show on the main page of the site! In one picture you can clearly see two windows keys on the product, and in the very next they've both been shopped out! Gold.

Re:Clear Hoax

[Canazza]

Okay, I have total faith in a company that uses a Make-your-own slide show script for their main site.

Seriously, this smells like either a) foreign company rip-off or b) a 20 something retro-enthusiast case-modder who managed to buy the rights to the brand for 20p, is going to churn out what are essentially just case-mods and has no clue how to make a proper website.

Re:Clear Hoax

[Orion Blastar]

Made in China?

"They took our jobs!" :)

Re:Clear Hoax

[crossmr]

apparently timothy is picking up kdawson's slack.

Re:Clear Hoax

[fyrie]

The contiki web server for the C64 can only do one request at a time.

Re:Clear Hoax

[Snowbat]

I think it is legit enough. Commodore USA is a registered company in the United States, and their site is quite clearly commodoreusa.net

A domain registered by Domains by Proxy, Inc.? It doesn't exactly inspire confidence.

Re:Clear Hoax

[rwven]

I figured out it was a hoax when i got down to where it says it will run "Linux, Windows, or Mac OS X."

Re:Clear Hoax

[rayd75]

I suspect that you had no first-hand experience with the 64, or that you experience was well after its heyday. When introduced, the 64 was more capable than most of its competitors and lower-priced as well. Remember, we are talking about a machine that occupied store shelves unchanged (save for cosmetic and cost reductions) for over a decade. By the time home users of any machine were considering hard drives, the C64's day was long-since over. At launch, its graphics were among the top available and its sound capabilities blew absolutely everything in the consumer market out of the water. Yes, the serial disk interface was slow even by 1982 standards, but only as an early example of a company opting for backwards compatibility over performance. The fast loader programs and cartridges didn't do some kind of magic, or fix a bug that Commodore let ship for 11 years; They simply rewrote the disk drive code to favor speed over compatibility with old PET systems.

Re:Clear Hoax

[idontgno]

It really is rather pathetic -- they're looking for people to only purchase this slapped together crap for nostalgia's sake.

In that case, other than the nostalgia angle, I think they've captured the fundamental essence of Commodore marketing perfectly.

-- idontgno, a still-frustrated-after-all-these-years Amiga partisan

Re:Clear Hoax

[Mister Whirly]

Sweet, bringing back the "retro" BBS feel to the internet! Can it serve stuff up faster than 300 baud though?

Re:Clear Hoax

[cupantae]

The best is the OS page.

Most of the entries are actually empty
It includes Linux as well as Ubuntu, with no indication as to how they are related
No links given to most of the entries
The OSX description is also available here among other places (probably stemming from the Apple website)
AROS is included, which is far from production quality, according to its own devs
Chrome is a browser, Chrome OS is an OS. Again, Linux...
What is Comodo? All I can find is AV/firewall - nothing to do with Commodore.

Funny stuff, guys.

Re:Clear Hoax

[UnknownSoldier]

> When introduced, the 64 was more capable than most of its competitors and lower-priced as well.

1. And all those expansion slots on the C64 are where again? Where was your 80x25 text again?

2. It may be hard for you to take off the rose-colored history glasses. Let's take a look at the facts: The Apple I and Apple ][ open slot architecture and daughterboards spawned serial cards, parallel cards, modems, CPU daughter boards (could YOUR C64 host a Z80?), sound cards, voice (Echo I) cards, mouse, floppy disk controllers, RAM cards (16K / 128K / 1 MB), hard drives, RAM capture (Replay & Wildcard) cards, just to start with. I don't remember any other computer that early that influenced the PC computer more.

3. To be fair, sure, the C64 created the demo scene, and yeah the Sid chip p0wned, but most people at the time didn't care! Why pay for things you will never use or need?? The C64 was seen as a toy, because that's what it was. Businesses used VisiCalc, AppleWorks, Wordstar, dBase, spell checkers, and financial software (e.g. PeachTree) because they wanted to get stuff done, not goof around.

Me thinks you need to re-think "more capable than most of its competitors" ...

Re:Clear Hoax

[ae1294]

Can it serve stuff up faster than 300 baud though?

I had a 1200 baud modem so yes...

Re:Clear Hoax

[brennanw]

In its day the C64 had absolutely the most sophisticated (and integrated) sound capability of any personal computer on the market. While IBM PCs were wrestling with sound cards with IRQs in order to get very basic sound capability, the C64 integrated sound components were sophisticated enough to synthesize speech. Very obviously synthesized speech, mind you, but it was an incredible feat for its time.

Re:Clear Hoax

[tsa]

Why? My Mac can run all that, and the Hackintosh my friend built can do it too.

Re:Clear Hoax

[Anonymous Coward]

could YOUR C64 host a Z80?

The C128 did, but the reasons for it doing so are mind-bendingly awful.

Re:Clear Hoax

[NiceGeek]

Oh christ..did we run in to a rip in the fabric of space/time? We're having a C64/AppleII/Atari 400/800 flamewar?

Re:Clear Hoax

[plopez]

LMFAO. I hope you get modded up.

Re:Clear Hoax

[Anonymous Coward]

hehe... I needed a laugh today - thank you.

Re:Clear Hoax

[pugugly]

No. Really he doesn't - The C64 was used in business environments as well, and frankly kicked arse, and even in that environment had more power than the machines of the day.

And yes actually, yes a C64 could host a Z80. Heck, my Dads C64 to this day runs ham packet setups.

That's not to denigrate some of the slot architecture advantages of the apple (Though IIRC, actually they were conforming to emerging standards that, y'know, didn't exist when the C-64 came out), but the C-64 architecture survived for such a very long time despite that because it was in fact superior in almost every other way.

Remember. Just because it was good at games doesn't imply inferiority in other contexts. Games are typically the bleeding edge of functionality - the fact that it *could* do graphics like Neuromancer isn't to imply it was the weak sister in otherways.

Pug

Re:Clear Hoax

[rayd75]

Re-read my statement and take special care to look for the words "most" and "among". :) That said, I still think it's a fair statement, even when comparing the 64 to the Apple II. Sure, you could replace most of the Apple's components with plug-in parts that mapped over the originals' memory space and have a sweet system... but how many of the Apple IIs in use had a 80 column card, sound card, RAM expansion, etc? I'd bet that of all sold by 1982, (the 64's release) the percentage of machines with any ONE of those expansion cards was in the single digits. If it makes you feel any better, I gave up my C64 long ago and made the switch to Apple!

Re:Clear Hoax

[JWSmythe]

Don't get too impressed with yourself. You missed the obvious part. Look at the filename.

    http://www.commodoreusa.net/i//zpc9100_full.jpg

    It's over 3 years old, and has nothing to do with Commodore, except someone set up a crappy site with the name on it to get the Commodore fans all wound up.

    A 2007 article about the ZPC9100

    Or the real manufacturer site

    I'm not surprised it was shot with an expensive camera, the *REAL* manufacturer had those done by a professional, I'm sure.

    Any of the rest of the crap in the summary or on their site can be assumed to be absolute BS. But hey, for those interested I have a 16 core 4THz machine with 32TB RAM that's the size of a matchhead. It runs off of a patented method for gathering and storing static electricity from the air, and interfaces to all external devices (display, HID, etc) wirelessly. I'll start selling them for $1,950,000. If I sell one I can move to a nice island. If I sell 1000 I'll buy the island. Err, I mean, ummm, we'll reinvest in the company to make our products even better. :)

Re:Clear Hoax

[Anonymous Coward]

Looking at the customize form on both that GX31 and the one on Commodore USA's site...

The form on Commodore's site is extremely similar to the GX31, barring a few differences on hard drive, unit warranty, and OS.

I don't have a decent text editor on this machine, but I think that if one diffed the source code between the two pages, one would be hard pressed to find many noticeable differences, almost as if the code was just copypasta'd and had a little garlic sprinkled on to mask the taste.

Re:Clear Hoax

[BitterOak]

Yes, the serial disk interface was slow even by 1982 standards, but only as an early example of a company opting for backwards compatibility over performance. The fast loader programs and cartridges didn't do some kind of magic, or fix a bug that Commodore let ship for 11 years; They simply rewrote the disk drive code to favor speed over compatibility with old PET systems.

But the disk drives on the PETs were much, much faster. I remember the first time I used a C-64, and I was shocked at how slow the disk drive was. The only floppy disk drive I'd had previous experience with was on a PET I'd borrowed from school. (Yes, they let people borrow computers in those days, and they didn't even spy on us through the webcams!)

Re:Clear Hoax

[ZosX]

They had webcams in the 80s?

Re:Clear Hoax

[mmontour]

1. And all those expansion slots on the C64 are where again?

On the back. From what I remember there was a cartridge port (mostly games, although you could put memory expansions there as well), the "user" port (generic I/O, often used for modems), and a multi-drop serial bus (disk drives, printers, etc).

Sure there weren't as many slots as some other architectures, on the other hand the basic computer already had built-in support for sound, mouse, joystick, etc.

Re:Clear Hoax

[beowulf01]

There's only one way to kill a zombie....

Re:Clear Hoax

[Anonymous Coward]

oh please.
archimedes for the win

Re:Clear Hoax

[Snorbert Xangox]

could YOUR C64 host a Z80?

The C128 did, but the reasons for it doing so are mind-bendingly awful.

There were references to a Z80 CP/M cartridge in the C64 Programmer's Reference Manual. Not sure how well it worked or whether it made it to market.

The VIC certainly had a mechanism for attaching multiple expansion cartridges to an external expander, but my memory fails me on whether the C64 had similar. Here in .au, any interesting C64 accessories made in the USA tended to be expensive and hence rare.

Re:Clear Hoax

[FuzzyFox]

The disk drives weren't faster, it was the I/O interface to the computer that was faster. PET's used the IEEE-488 parallel bus, while the C64 used the IEEE-488-"C" serial bus. Obviously a parallel bus can move more bits at a time than a serial bus at the same operating frequency. When compared to the tape drives, the disk drive was blazing fast. :)

Re:Clear Hoax

[Pentavirate]

I loved Space Taxi!

Re:Clear Hoax

[rwven]

Except there's no evidence that this particular set of hardware can run mac at this time.

Re:Clear Hoax

[Pseudonym]

I don't remember any other computer that early that influenced the PC computer more.

Either your memory is fading, or you're not old enough to remember the S-100 bus.

Re:Clear Hoax

[Pseudonym]

I don't know whether to laugh or cry at the phrase "my Dad's C64".

Commodore 64?

[Anonymous Coward]

Sounds more like a Commodore 2010 to me. :p

Re:Commodore 64?

[Anonymous Coward]

The "64" was the memory it had and not the date.

Re:Commodore 64?

[Anonymous Coward]

I know this.

Re:Commodore 64?

[Anonymous Coward]

then Commodore 2097152

Re:Commodore 64?

[Inschato]

In this case, the 64 obviously stands for 64-bit processor, much like the Nintendo 64.

Re:Commodore 64?

[Hatta]

The Commodore 64 had 64K of RAM. That would make this thing the Commodore 4194304.

If they're going to call this thing a Commodore, they should at least make it boot into BASIC. Or maybe build in one of those C64s on a chip. That might make it worth an enthusiasts time. Otherwise, I'll pass on this one. I have a C128 anyway.

Re:Commodore 64?

[squinty_s]

Actually, it had 38K of usable RAM. The remaining memory was actually ROM.

Re:Commodore 64?

[omnichad]

but now it's the width of the memory bus or the processor type.

Re:Commodore 64?

[ink]

Only if you were using BASIC. Once you went to 6502 assembly, you could use all the RAM.

Re:Commodore 64?

[OrangeTide]

4194304 would be 4M, it's been a while since a PC shipped with only 4M RAM.

They should at least bundle a C64 emulator with the thing.

Re:Commodore 64?

[Hatta]

4M is 4096K.

4G is 4194304K.

Re:Commodore 64?

[Warui Kami]

You could remap the ROM-space in basic, too.

There was 64k of ram, and only 64k of address space, so the ROM was using some of that address space by necessity. You could remap the address space to RAM-only but that would cause several things to stop working. The trick was to copy some parts of the ROM to RAM and then you could change the pointers to things like where the screen-font and such that were usually in ROM were now stored. As long as you did some prep-work, it was easy to run with a flat address space available to you. This technique was used a lot of the time to be able to edit bits of the ROM while still remaining in a fairly standard environment.

Also, the difference between BASIC and assembly could be fuzzy. I still have a book on machine language for the C64 which starts with simple programs being entered in basic using DATA statements combined with POKE and READ to load them directly to memory and then manually set the instruction pointer to the beginning of your program. All that was do-able in BASIC, which is how I wrote an assembler in ML via BASIC to allow me to use opcode names instead of remembering that LDA == $A9 == 649 decimal (load a value into register A).

OK, I admit I looked up that opcode, but it's been 20 years. :) I was 8. :P

Re:Commodore 64?

[ink]

I remember doing all of that as well. :-) My first "machine language" program was a series of DATA statements painstakenly copied from the pages of Compute! magazine. It wasn't until later that I understood what was actually going on. My dad bought an Apple //c and then I had to learn about bank switching to access all of its memory. Fun times.

Re:Commodore 64?

[OrangeTide]

Oh of course! It's bad that I need the joke explained to me. Oh well.

Re:Commodore 64?

[Scoth]

My family was Atarian growing up, but I did a ton of type-in programs too. Nothing quite like spending half an hour or an hour painstakingly entering lines and lines of DATA statements only to have it crash horribly because you typoed one, and then getting to spend another hour checking them all to find that one you messed up. Ahh, memories.

C64 = Legend

[Anonymous Coward]

Legends never die, they just sys 64738

?syntax error

[Anonymous Coward]

first prost

64-bit?!

[Anonymous Coward]

with Intel's 64-bit quad-core microprocessors and 3D graphics capabilities

Then it's not a Commodore 64, it's just a modern product trying to cash in on the famous name.

Re:64-bit?!

[dingen]

Exactly right. It doesn't even have a cassette drive.

Re:64-bit?!

[tepples]

First, there was Pressman: a portable cassette drive made by Sony that led to Walkman. Now there is the replacement for Walkman, called an MP3 player. Save your programs to that.

Re:64-bit?!

[bjourne]

Whew! Thanks for clearing up that misunderstanding for us. I mean, I don't think I was alone in thinking that a computer with an Intel 64-bit quad-core cpu was a Commodore 64. Internet needs more people like you to stop people from trying to cash in on famous names from spreading their disinformation!

Re:64-bit?!

[Anonymous Coward]

Bonus points to the first person that can rip an mp3/flac from an old cassette and get the program to load.

-- gid

Re:64-bit?!

[RulerOf]

Bonus points to the first person that can rip an mp3/flac from an old cassette and get the program to load.

Has anyone ever done that? Come to think of it, since MP3 discards audio outside of human hearing ranges, would it even work? I suppose that since (usually by limiting to 9600bps or so) you can get a fax machine to work on a VoIP line, this could work as well though.

That'd be really neat/useless, feeding MP3 files to a c64 emulator to load applications. :D

Re:64-bit?!

[Unka Willbur]

Bonus points to the first person that can rip an mp3/flac from an old cassette and get the program to load.

-- gid

Already done, for Atari 2600 cassette-based games. No trouble at all.

Re:64-bit?!

[doob]

I've done this with an iBook plugged into the cassette input of an Amstrad CPC. It was actually surprising how much you could compress the MP3. I think I went down at least as low as 64kpbs (can't remember any of the other settings) and have programs still load.

Re:64-bit?!

[Anonymous Coward]

Reply fail.

Re:64-bit?!

[ehrichweiss]

Already done, though I didn't use a C= 64, I used a Z-80 training board.

I can haz +1 internets?

Re:64-bit?!

[jimicus]

Has anyone ever done that? Come to think of it, since MP3 discards audio outside of human hearing ranges, would it even work? I suppose that since (usually by limiting to 9600bps or so) you can get a fax machine to work on a VoIP line, this could work as well though.

Not sure about the commodore, but the BBC frequently used a rate of about 2400bps - and since when was audio tape a suitable medium to store audio outside of human hearing ranges?

Re:64-bit?!

[ehrichweiss]

Have you forgotten that cassette tapes only recorded *within* human hearing ranges?

Re:64-bit?!

[dzfoo]

Or a port for my 1541 drive.

    -dZ.

Re:64-bit?!

[Anonymous Coward]

Wake me up when it runs the old games from 5-1/4 and 3-1/2 floppy disks.

Re:64-bit?!

[TomC2]

I managed to transfer some Acorn Electron tapes onto audio CDs once, and was also able to speed up the loading time by reducing the long "padding" beeps between the blocks (which I'm sure have a proper name..)

Oddly enough there was one tape that it just would not work with - though it loaded fine directly from the tape, so goodness knows what strange analogue copy protection had been implemented.

Re:64-bit?!

[drinkypoo]

Bonus points to the first person that can rip an mp3/flac from an old cassette and get the program to load.

tests show that there is no real difference between square and sine waveforms in terms of MP3 packing. WAVs with 3675 bps can be packed as 128 kbps MP3, those with 5512.5 - at 192 kbps (of course, at max quality and with frequency filters switched off). That's for MSX though. But if the bitrate is not too high, then it ought to work.

Re:64-bit?!

[Raab]

You forget lossy encoders discard sounds well withing human hearing ranges if it deems them "unhearable" in the context of the sound.

Re:64-bit?!

[RulerOf]

Have you forgotten that cassette tapes only recorded *within* human hearing ranges?

I didn't forget that, I just didn't know it. As an analog device, I can't think of any reason off the top of my head why such devices wouldn't record outside of human hearing ranges, but I honestly don't know the specifics of how analog tape works, other than "Sound > Mic > Electricity > Tape Head > Magnetism > Magnetized Tape."

Re:64-bit?!

[91degrees]

No, audio compression doesn't discard audio outside of human hearing ranges (well, it does but so do most forms of recording). It discards information that can't be heard because it's masked by neighbouring frequencies. Of course it will only do this if there's a compression benefit to doing so. It may well be that there isn't any such benefit in tape data, or alternatively it may be that the psychoaucoustical model assumes that the ear can distinguish between different loading sounds.

Re:64-bit?!

[ehrichweiss]

That wasn't the topic at hand, so I didn't mention it.

Re:64-bit?!

[that this is not und]

That's not really impressive, when you consider the audio quality of the cassette recorders used to store data on those low-end cassette-based computers from the 80's. In fact, Radio Shack recommended against using too 'high quality' of a cassette recorder. The data is encoded in basically the voice band. Too wide a frequency response just increases the artifacts and noise that get recorded, which is actually detrimental to the quality of the digital record.

Re:64-bit?!

[jandrese]

I'll give it a pass if it boots up into ROM BASIC by default, and you have to flip a switch or something to get it to boot into Windows. I'll even be so generous as to give it bonus points if the ROM BASIC has a programmable sound chip (emulator) and sprite generator accessible. Double bonus points if the manual is thick and informative. They win the grand prize if the power supply is a cheap piece of crap that breaks every 6 months.

Re:64-bit?!

[dingen]

Believe me, cassette tapes discard a lot of sound well within the human hearing range as well.

Re:64-bit?!

[KlaymenDK]

As an analog device, I can't think of any reason off the top of my head why such devices wouldn't record outside of human hearing ranges

It's rather simple, really; even analogue devices have a maximum 'resolution'. For film, this is the graininess. For tape, there's a certain magnetic response time.

Imagine, if you will, a nice 440Hz waveform; this is stored as a nicely wavy pattern in the magnetic particles. Well, if you were to store a 0.01Hz signal, there just wouldn't be enough offset, inch-by-inch, to detect it (that is to say, generate a magnetic current) when playing back (at normal speeds, anyway). In the opposite case, the wave pattern of a 1GHz signal would be way too steep for the magnetic head and tape to handle; I suppose there's no telling what the recorded signal would actually end up being, but my guess is it'd be rather like white noise.

Put another way, look at an analogue gauge -- sound would correspond to movement of the needle. Very slow movements would be effectively undetectable, and an overly fast signal would just result in a jittering (and lagging) needle because it can't keep up.

Re:64-bit?!

[Hatta]

IIRC Commodore tape drives used a proprietary connection. It's not as simple as hooking your MP3 player up to a line in jack. You'd at least have to rig something on the signal pin to let the C64 know that there's something connected and playing(or recording as the case may be).

The upcoming 1541 Ultimate II will support tape emulation from files on an SD card, as well as floppy drive emulation, and many (but not all apparently) cartridges. This is the device every 21st century Commodore owner needs.

Re:64-bit?!

[Hatta]

Yep, very easy. The Supercharger can even be modified to accept normal Atari 2600 games. Though at this point, it's much more convenient to just buy a Harmony cart.

Re:64-bit?!

[mdwh2]

A Mac doesn't have a 68000 processor or a floppy drive.

Re:64-bit?!

[BlackSnake112]

How about ROM Basic with the options:
A. Boot Linux
B. Boot OSX
C. Boot Windows

*Bonus if it randomly switched the order (of A,B,C) on each boot.

And how is Apply going to like some other company selling an OSX machine?

Re:64-bit?!

[dingen]

That's probably why Apple isn't using model numbers from 30 years ago for current products.

Re:64-bit?!

[jrumney]

As an analog device, they could record outside human hearing range, but as a consumer device, they were made as cheap as possible, and thus didn't perform particularly well even within the range of human hearing, let alone outside it, especially the cheap mono recorders that were used with early home computers. I don't know about mp3, but there were certainly wav files of C=64 games around on bulletin boards in the early '90s, so flac should be no problem.

Re:64-bit?!

[CTalkobt]

There are actually programs that allow taking a tape player, plugging it in your line in (if you have one still) and decoding the C= tape into individual .prg files.

I don't have them handy but google might.. - try +C64 +audio +tape +conversion - eg: This one...(among others)

Re:64-bit?!

[Anonymous Coward]

But wait, didn't the "64" stand for the number of bits??? This can't be a hoax... :-P

Re:64-bit?!

[Anonymous Coward]

Troll fail.

Re:64-bit?!

[tepples]

or alternatively it may be that the psychoaucoustical model assumes that the ear can distinguish between different loading sounds.

Bingo. Modulations used in cassette storage are largely time-domain: either FSK (frequency shift keying) similar to TTYs used by the Deaf, or Manchester code like that used by Ethernet, or MFM like that used on disk drives. But human hearing starts with a conversion to the frequency domain in the cochlea.

Re:64-bit?!

[idontgno]

Mine does.

And 4 megs of RAM! and a 60-meg HD! And (weirdest thing I've ever seen) an SCSI network adapter that does 10BaseT just fine!

Re:64-bit?!

[Anonymous Coward]

Not insightful in this context. Cassette tapes record within hearing ranges, but MP3 discards much more than that (e.g., loud frequencies mask less loud adjacent frequencies, which can be completely discarded).

Re:64-bit?!

[raddan]

MP3 also employs a psychoacoustic model that will remove things that you cannot perceive, not just things that you cannot hear. There's a big difference. Your ear responds to the pressure wave but your brain does not because it's being "masked" by something else. Those sounds are within the audible spectrum.

Re:64-bit?!

[Anonymous Coward]

agreed, unless it will run my old c64 games nativly, its not a c64.

Re:64-bit?!

[zr-rifle]

LOAD "VMLINUZ",8,1

Re:64-bit?!

[Retron]

Yes, it's been done - albeit for the Commodore Plus/4, aka the Commodore 264.
http://plus4world.powweb.com/software/Fire_Ant
There's a WAV file there, recorded from a tape and yes, it works with certain emulators.

Re:64-bit?!

[noidentity]

Whew! Thanks for clearing up that misunderstanding for us. I mean, I don't think I was alone in thinking that a computer with an Intel 64-bit quad-core cpu was a Commodore 64. Internet needs more people like you to stop people from trying to cash in on famous names from spreading their disinformation!

Bullshit! I clearly remember my Commodore 64 having an Intel 64-bit quad-core CPU with dual-head graphics and 4096x2048 resolution on the monitor.

Re:64-bit?!

[Scoth]

From some googling, it looks like Commodore had the A/D conversion in the tape drive and sent it to the computer as a digital stream. So, any method for connecting an audio player would need that A/D conversion. It's been awhile since I messed with it, but I'm pretty sure the Atari interface was not much more than an audio-in with a motor start/stop pin. I remember having some games for Atari 8-bit that actually had voiceover and narration and stuff - pretty neat for a kid and something not matched again until the CD era.

http://www.zimmers.net/anonftp/pub/cbm/documents/projects/interfaces/soundcard2tape.html

Re:64-bit?!

[Scoth]

Hail to a fellow vintage Mac user! I have a Classic on my desk with a SCSI-Ethernet adapter; fun little box, though I may see about getting my IIci running properly again - I'd not mind color for a couple things I do. Of course, I'd also not mind an SE/30 or Color Classic, but they're stupidly expensive for old Macs :P

Re:64-bit?!

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, yes!
I'm and old 8bit computers fan, and I have several CP400 (a brazilian TRS-Color clone) and TK2000 (a semi-compatible Apple2 clone) tapes stored under MP3 format. I can load them all through an Archos MP3 player.

Pick your OS flavor?

[soup4you2]

"will run the Linux, Windows and Mac OS X operating systems."

This could get interesting.

Re:Pick your OS flavor?

[ircmaxell]

No BASIC? It's not a Commodore 64 then...

I am not interested. What's the difference between this and all the other all-in-one computers out there? The fact that the CPU is in the keyboard instead of the monitor? Who cares...?

Re:Pick your OS flavor?

[gnasher719]

"will run the Linux, Windows and Mac OS X operating systems."

Apple vs. Psystar ended with a $30,000 fine for copying MacOS X per se without permission ($30,000 for an unlimited number of copies, RIAA take note), plus $2500 for each individual case of DMCA violation (that is $2500 per each single copy put on a non-Apple branded computer that actually works; that's the expensive part). And if the machine is just _capable_ of running unmodified MacOS X, that is already a DMCA violation, whether the company or an end user installs the OS or not.

Re:Pick your OS flavor?

[Anonymous Coward]

What is there so special about apple computers that makes it the only machines possible capable running unmodified Mac OS X? EFI? GPT?

Re:Pick your OS flavor?

[natehoy]

Lawyers.

Re:Pick your OS flavor?

[gid]

Which is exactly the reason why I will never own an Apple computer, iPod, iTouch, iPad, iPhone, iMac, etc.

Re:Pick your OS flavor?

[Rallias Ubernerd]

Really? 2 corrections. Mac OSX not supported (according to the website). And Linux is a kernal, not an OS

Re:Pick your OS flavor?

[tverbeek]

If it doesn't run EasyScript, I'm not interested. That was so cool: you could embed printer control codes into your documents, to turn on bold and underline and italics! Even superscript and subscript (if your printer could do that... mine did!)

To be fair, an "all-in-one" that puts the CPU in the keyboard can be handier than the iMac approach: it's a lot easier to carry from place to place and hook up to whatever monitor is handy.

Re:Pick your OS flavor?

[ircmaxell]

To be fair, an "all-in-one" that puts the CPU in the keyboard can be handier than the iMac approach:

True, but at that point, why not just get a netbook, and be able to use it without an external monitor if you so choose?

Re:Pick your OS flavor?

[DarKnyht]

Their website (not the news story) just points out the OS'es that could run on their machine. However I don't think they install anything on the system itself. Under OS X, it points out that you will need to go to the Apple Store yourself like they do and links to articles on the devices needed to get around the protections.

Re:Pick your OS flavor?

[tverbeek]

This is supposed to be more powerful than your typical netbook. It's a different set of features; is it that difficult to imagine that someone else might find it useful to them?

Re:Pick your OS flavor?

[Emmeau]

But will it run GEOS? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GEOS_%288-bit_operating_system%29)

Re:Pick your OS flavor?

[Anonymous Coward]

Lawyers would taste awful!!

A Commodore In Name Only

[rsmith-mac]

TFA says it's an Intel x86 based machine running Windows. The only thing Commodore about this thing is that it's built in to an oversized PC-style keyboard, and even that's a stretch. This is a Commodore in name only.

Re:A Commodore In Name Only

[dingen]

TFA says it's an Intel x86 based machine running Windows.

That's interesting. I didn't know you could run Windows with 64K of RAM.

Re:A Commodore In Name Only

[happy_place]

And why anyone would want to revive the Commodore name is beyond me. Commodore killed one of the best computers of its age... (the Amiga) Might as well brand your product the "Mein Furher" brand...

Re:A Commodore In Name Only

[Anonymous Coward]

Speaking of Amiga - this can apparently run it lmao. Though I love Amiga soo much!

Re:A Commodore In Name Only

[tverbeek]

Because most of the millions of people who bought a C64 don't know or care about what happened with the Amiga. Adolf, on the other handm doesn't have any nostalgic associations for most people, and his ignoble legacy is a little better known, so your comparison is a bit of a stretch.

And according to corollaries to Godwin's Law: you lose. :)

Re:A Commodore In Name Only

[rdnetto]

Talk about poor market research. I would expect most of the people interested in a Commodore 64 look-alike to use Linux.

This is not a C64 at all

[dingen]

The computer will be an all-in-one keyboard, with Intel's 64-bit quad-core microprocessors and 3D graphics capabilities.

So how is it a C64 then? I bet it doesn't even have 64K of RAM.

Re:This is not a C64 at all

[91degrees]

It's 64 bit.

Re:This is not a C64 at all

[Fred_A]

So how is it a C64 then? I bet it doesn't even have 64K of RAM.

Because they expect to sell 64 units ?

Re:This is not a C64 at all

[91degrees]

LOL! Actually it should be most of the time. At current rate of progress, we'll have another 40 or so years until 64 bits is inadequate for addressing the amount of RAM we have. 64 bit integers can handle values up to almost 10^19 which is the sort of value that doesn't come up often in the real world unless you're counting atoms or measuring planets. 64 bit floats are really quite high precision and almost allow mm accuracy modeling of the solar system.

The main beneficiary of more bits is cryptography, but you'll never have enough bits for that.

Re:This is not a C64 at all

[Anonymous Coward]

64 units should be enough for anybody.

Re:This is not a C64 at all

[Anonymous Coward]

Perhaps it has 64 KB of L1 cache? Although with four cores even that would add up to 256 KB.

Re:This is not a C64 at all

[Eternauta3k]

You don't need a 64 bit processor in order to have 64 bit floats or integers

Re:This is not a C64 at all

[91degrees]

No, but it's convenient to be able to do them in a single cycle.

I already have one

[dmgxmichael]

Seriously! I pulled the sticker off my old Commodore 64 this morning and put it on my computer. Now it too is a commodore 64!

Re:I already have one

[Anonymous Coward]

lol, same here; i put it on my keyboard and it has been moving from keyboard to keyboard for years :)

Re:I already have one

[L4t3r4lu5]

I'm running Ubuntu on my NES. No fancy labelling, I just slipped an old cartridge into the empty 5.25" bay until it fit and wired up a controller to the serial port.

At first it wouldn't boot, but blowing on the cartridge contacts worked a treat.

Re:I already have one

[somersault]

My car is a Commodore 64. It is also a George Foreman Grill.

Re:I already have one

[dzfoo]

That's nothing, I just put an Apple sticker on my C=64 and now it's a Mac.

      -dZ.

Re:I already have one

[bostei2008]

Prepare to get sued by Apple.

Re:I already have one

[greed]

I put a WYSE sticker on my Mac and now it's a dumb terminal!

Or maybe I'm just terminally dumb....

Re:I already have one

[mdwh2]

Indeed, why not? Apple have been doing this for years, putting Apple stickers on PCs and selling them as Macs. Why is it always the Commdore (and Amiga) stories that for some reason this isn't allowed?

Personally I'm running an Amiga with 4 cores, 4GB RAM, NVIDIA graphics and running Windows 7.

Re:I already have one

[BlackSnake112]

I have an apple sticker on my red dell mini 9 running OSX. I still have people asking where I got the red apple laptop at. They cannot find it at the apple store.

I so want to go to the apple store and just to see the sale people's faces when someone asks for a red (or any other color) apple laptop.

Re:I already have one

[dzfoo]

But, does it have an Apple sticker?

        -dZ.

Re:I already have one

[losfromla]

pictures please

Re:I already have one

[Anonymous Coward]

Hmm, gets out sharpie..

Cool I have a cray now!

Yawn

[jawtheshark]

Intel's 64-bit quad-core microprocessors [...] 500GB of hard drive storage and 4GB of RAM. Also included are a DVD-RW drive, a touchpad, four USB ports, a Gigabit Ethernet port and a DVI

and

The PC will run the Linux, Windows and Mac OS X operating systems.

So, it's laptop computer without a screen intended to be attached to a normal computer screen. Apart from form factor (an even then - many computers of the C64 era had this form factor) this has nothing to do with Commodore 64. It's just a PC like an other one on the market. At least if it had come with a HDMI port to be by default attached to a HDTV, then it would be closer to the Commodre 64 legacy.

Also... "Will run Mac OS X"... Definitely not legally....

All in all: Meh!

Re:Yawn

[1karmik1]

Since when it's legal or illegal to run your own software on whatever hardware you want? As long as it's not child pornography (and you bought it if it's proprietary software), in the privacy of your home you can run osx or beos or Xenix on whatever hardware you manage to make it run on (if you have legal rights of some kinds on the hardware that is). The situation you're referring to as illegal is probably the one of Psystar. A System Integrator that started *selling* system with OSX pre-installed. That's a whole different beast :)

Re:Yawn

[jawtheshark]

IANAL obviously.... Assume you buy OS X, I also assume you need to read the license agreement which contains the little bit about "Apple Branded Hardware". I do not think this machine applies. You are already in violation with the license. I'm pretty sure that in good old Europe we're safe because I expect EULAs to be severely slammed when evaluated by the courts. However my hopes for the US aren't that bright. (I might be optimistic about Europe... So, I won't hold my breath)

Now, second, let's just assume for the sake of it that you are a US citizen and that for some reason you can safely ignore the EULA because "you never signed anything". There is still that little matter that Apple effectively blocks you from running OS X of non-Apple hardware, which means you have to (and now come the magical words)... circumvent digital protection measures. That, my friend is illegal in the US under DMCA.

Is it enforcable? Probably not... It is as much enforcable as some random IT guy using the VLK of his employer on the machines of his family and friends. Nobody is going to notice, but it is 100% illegal.

Re:Yawn

[1karmik1]

And those most likely completely correct legal statements of yours (and the fact i've had national healthcare since the day i was born) are what still makes me proud of living in the old Europe no matter how shit, completely illegal, corrupt and misled my government can be. (and please note that as a citizen i'm doing whatever i can to change that)

Re:Yawn

[jawtheshark]

Well, then we're two... I just, by default, assume slashdot commenters to be US American citizens.

Re:Yawn

[that this is not und]

the little bit about "Apple Branded Hardware".

Yes, but Apple always sticks a few of the little Apple stickers right in the packaging. Put Apple Branded sticker on clone's box. Voila!

Re:Yawn

[jawtheshark]

There are Apple stickers coming with the retail copy OS X? I know I got some with my (long dead) iBook and some with my wifes iPod... It's the typical "workaround" I hear about on slashdot. Doesn't change the DMCA problem I described, which stays valid. The sticker only takes care of the EULA problem.

Re:Yawn

[mdwh2]

And Windows isn't Windows, because it's not a GUI running on DOS.

And Mac OS X isn't Mac OS, it's a completely different OS. Only Linux shares anything in common with the original.

So? I think these points are obvious - and you're only the 20th or so person to point this out.

Re:Yawn

[jawtheshark]

So? I think these points are obvious - and you're only the 20th or so person to point this out.

When I started typing my comment, there were no comments attached to the article. I just took the time to write more than one sentence which results in the fact that I'm the 20th and not the first. This is how slashdot has alway worked. Go compare timestamps next time, mmmkay? (First post in for this article is 2010-03-24 13:13CET and my post was at 2010-03-24 13:17CET.)

If I wanted to first post, I could have written "Just a PC. Lame! First Post!"...

Another comeback?

[Viol8]

Good thing Frank Sinatra's not alive to see this...

Re:Another comeback?

[dfxm]

or LL Cool J...

Re:Another comeback?

[that this is not und]

It's also a good thing Amiga is dead, and incapable of seeing this.

Re:Another comeback?

[Farmer Tim]

Sorry. I've been meaning to get onto that, but these peasants with pitchforks keep burning down my castle...

Riding the back of nostalgia.

[Anonymous Coward]

Sure, the C64 was a fantastic machine in its time. But that was the 1980s. Commodore hasn't been in the public consciousness for nearly two decades (the last Amigas from Commodore - the 1200 and 4000T - ceased production in 1996, if Wikipedia can be trusted). They're planning an all-in-one keyboard computer, just like the original C64, and I can pretty much guarantee: it'll flop. The design had good reason back in the 80s, but not so much now - they're banking upon the name driving sales, but I suspect a lot of people will look at it and discount it for that same reason.

Re:Riding the back of nostalgia.

[zach_the_lizard]

Most of the younger generation (such as my self) has either never heard of C64 or never used one. I've never used one of these machines before; I might be interested in getting a modern remake if it was just as limited as the original, just to see how far we've come since that time period, but the brand means very little to me in a modern computer. The all-in-one design would be very hard for me to use on a day to day basis because of my desk arrangement, and the same applies to many of my friends' desks as well. I concur that this will flop.

Re:Riding the back of nostalgia.

[hedwards]

Most likely, I've seen computers that were built completely into the keyboard in recent years, but they haven't taken off. I'd be shocked if the name would be enough to change that.

Re:Riding the back of nostalgia.

[plague3106]

And this is why your generation sucks at programming.

Re:Riding the back of nostalgia.

[fuzzyfuzzyfungus]

I see no reason for this particular outfit to succeed(keyboard computers are a niche, the C64 name isn't worth paying any extra for, Asus's oddball EEEboard will be out real soon now, etc.); but, the product itself has been around for some years now, which suggests that it is still making money, albeit in a niche.

Unless the latest outfit wearing a mask made from Commodore's flayed face is simply stealing clip art, what they are selling is a simple rebadge of Cybernet's "ZPC". Those things have been around at least since the P4 was the face of "intel inside" possibly earlier. Unless Cybernet is an ass about small quantities or something, there is absolutely no reason to order from some fly-by-night rebadge house; but the product is real enough, and presumably has enough of a niche(probably space constrained POS applications and similar) to justify the engineering costs of shoving a laptop motherboard into a keyboard housing for the past few generations of x86 hardware.

Re:Riding the back of nostalgia.

[TheCycoONE]

Your post makes me sad on two levels; first that at 25 I'm no longer part of the younger generation (nearly everyone my age has seen/used a C64 at least in their early grades of primary school); and secondly because there are poor people out there who have never had a chance to use one.

Limited pfft: POKE, PEEK, and 64k is all anyone will ever need.

Re:Riding the back of nostalgia.

[Mikkeles]

As one who did programme back then (and earlier), I can assure you that his generation sucks no more or less than did the older generation; just in different ways.

Re:Riding the back of nostalgia.

[plague3106]

Relax, it was a joke.

Re:Riding the back of nostalgia.

[Anonymous Coward]

NICE FIND!

If it wasn't already discounted as fake - fuzzyfuzzyfungus has proven it. The images are the same!

Re:Riding the back of nostalgia.

[Anonymous Coward]

At least we weren't the cause of the Y2K bug, fagmaster.

Re:Riding the back of nostalgia.

[somersault]

The older generation have a lot more experience when it comes to sucking. Lack of teeth also helps.

Re:Riding the back of nostalgia.

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, if it was made by Apple...

Re:Riding the back of nostalgia.

[Rob the Bold]

Most of the younger generation (such as my self) has either never heard of C64 or never used one. I've never used one of these machines before; I might be interested in getting a modern remake if it was just as limited as the original, just to see how far we've come since that time period, but the brand means very little to me in a modern computer. The all-in-one design would be very hard for me to use on a day to day basis because of my desk arrangement, and the same applies to many of my friends' desks as well. I concur that this will flop.

Presumably, if you were to get such a device, you would move your existing computer elsewhere . . .

For that matter, I see people of all ages using "all-in-one" computers every day. They call them laptops, notebooks, netbooks, etc. And these are even "all-in-oner" than a keyboard/computer with separate monitor like this "Commodore" sounds like -- haven't seen it, site is Slashdotted.

Re:Riding the back of nostalgia.

[Linker3000]

Yeah, but us C64 programmers could, like, totally suck in only 39K of RAM - this generation needs at least 512MB just to load up suckage.dll

Re:Riding the back of nostalgia.

[Anonymous Coward]

Simple enough, google for Commodore 64 emulator source. You'd need source to slow it down since all the emulators for those old computers run about 30 times faster than the original and you want to put a bunch of delays into it to make it more realistic.

Re:Riding the back of nostalgia.

[fuzzyfuzzyfungus]

Arguably, their being a cheap rebadge job probably increases the likelihood of their being real(not a good idea; but not simple vapor).

Actually designing a keyboard PC product, having a real support channel, a driver site that won't be replaced by a chinese ftp warez dump 6 months from now, etc, etc. takes real work. I wouldn't particularly trust a smalltime nobody to do that properly, or at all.

By contrast, picking up Commodore 64 naming rights at some IP charnel house auction, having a bunch of stickers and branded manuals printed, and ordering batches of hardware from an established distributor is pretty simple. Not really a service that would be worth paying much for, so I don't have rosy predictions for this "Commodore" company in the mid to long term; but they probably will end up shipping some product before they die.

Re:Riding the back of nostalgia.

[Anonymous Coward]

i did most of my programming when i was young on a 48gx. in rpl, sysrpl and asm. when you have 128KB of memory and a 4MHz cpu, you learn to take advantage of all resources available.

plus, a 131x64 screen makes you appreciate well-designed UIs.

Re:Riding the back of nostalgia.

[hot soldering iron]

The All-in-one style has a proper name: a laptop. This is a laptop without an lcd. And it's not portable. So it's not even a good laptop. Nice design, but not a good machine.

If you want the true feel of a 64 get the C64 Direct-to-TV (abbreviated C64DTV). It's a C64 emulated in a chip, with 30 games, embedded in a joystick. Plug it into your TV and play. There are also numerous emulators (free), and you may find someone that has an original in their attic.

The original C64 was, and still is, prized for it's music synth capabilities using the SID chip. Many of the remaining functional C64s have been turned into music synthesizers/sequencers (Prophet64, MSSIAH, others). It's still quite the hackable platform. I remember back in the day (late '80s) some guys developed their own cartridge firmware/network stack and were running 8 of them in a parallel cluster. Neat toy.

Re:Riding the back of nostalgia.

[Anonymous Coward]

You had POKE and PEEK, We had to toggle instructions in from the front panel. Then walk UPHILL back to the card reader WITH NO SHOES !

Re:Riding the back of nostalgia.

[mdwh2]

Sure, the C64 was a fantastic machine in its time. But that was the 1980s.

The only thing more annoying than 20 people pointing out that this new machine has completely upgraded technology (and then moaning about it on those grounds) is that we then get a comment from someone who seriously thinks they're releasing exactly the same machine.

I might as well criticise the latest Mac, on the grounds that it runs a slow 68000, and can't even multitask.

They're planning an all-in-one keyboard computer, just like the original C64, and I can pretty much guarantee: it'll flop. The design had good reason back in the 80s, but not so much now

Yeah, no one buys computers combined with keyboards now do they (hint, they outsell desktops these days).

Now sure, it's not going to be a market leader, but I'm not sure it will flop. It's true that the "space saving" desktop PCs tend to be a niche AFAIK, but equally, they've hardly flopped - you can walk into mainstream stores and see them for sale, for example.

Whilst I'm personally not interested in this design, I'd still favour it over combining the computer with the monitor, i.e., what Apple do, and you don't see people moaning about that, nor do they seem to have flopped.

As for the name - well, you're reading it about it, aren't you? Would you be, if they hadn't have used the name? The point you're missing is not how many people today remember the Commodore name, but the fact that the name will give them lots of free advertising and coverage by the media (much like Apple often benefit from).

Re:Riding the back of nostalgia.

[zach_the_lizard]

My laptop would not fit where my keyboard is, because of the design of the desk. The keyboard tray is very small. I'd even call it too small.

Re:Riding the back of nostalgia.

[TangoMargarine]

What? Because he's never used a C64, because he would like to see how far we've come, because the brand doesn't mean anything to him, because he doesn't feel like an all-in-one, or because he thinks this product won't do well? I'm missing something.

Re:Riding the back of nostalgia.

[DerekLyons]

The design had good reason back in the 80s, but not so much now

On the contrary. Many people buy laptops, but basically never move them from their desks except to dust, because they bought them to save space and get rid of the spiderweb of cables on and around their desktop. They'll be attractive to POS resellers for the same reason.
 
It's a niche product for sure, but that's a different matter from having no reason to exist at all.

Re:Riding the back of nostalgia.

[1karmik1]

Gief me that redundant now because i will make sure i deserve it. it's a FLUKE. A Hoax. A Fake. Hocus Pocus. Groundless MumboJumbo. This computer is not an actual product. It's someone with a particularly slow day at the office in need of some attention (that doesn't involve a pay cut) that pulled you a good joke. And for the record a design like that wouldn't be a flop only if it was twice as portable as the eeepc with none of the downsides. That clunky sad excuse for a k10 science project ripoff could have been made by a bored 16 dude that visited a pc modding forum for the first time yesterday by buying parts at his local Walmart. The pictures on that site have not been concocted by anyone with an even pale idea of what the words "design" (and not the fashiony meaning of the word, here i'm talking even about the bare minimum functional design issues) or "engineering" means.

Re:Riding the back of nostalgia.

[Miser]

Seconded. :) ... and to the OP - get off my lawn!

Cheers,

Miser

Re:Riding the back of nostalgia.

[srothroc]

Some of us have never seen/used C64s because our public schools had old Apple II machines.

Re:Riding the back of nostalgia.

[Ant P.]

Mine had a BBC Micro and a bunch of Acorns. Around 2001 I was doing typing classes in a room full of Mac Classics running WordPerfect from floppies. Then the school got sold out by incompetent local government and the rooms full of working, fast computers were replaced by ugly, slow, constantly broken Compaqs that heaved and groaned under the strain of Win2k. The main thing I learned about computers in that school after that was that it takes 15-20 minutes to boot Windows and five seconds to open a menu. Not exaggerating.

Re:Riding the back of nostalgia.

[Anonymous Coward]

Sorry, but you're wrong :) The best coders in the world are from the 70s/80s generation.

Re:Riding the back of nostalgia.

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm in my 30s and never used a C64. My elementary school didn't have /any/ computers. I had to make do with my family's 8088 (and then our 286) until college.

BTW, what did the 64 stand for in C64, since it was an 8-bit CPU?

Re:Riding the back of nostalgia.

[penguinchris]

I am two years younger but even I have understood that I'm no longer part of the younger generation at least since graduating from university and possibly even a few years earlier :)

And as someone else said in their reply, most around this age didn't use a C64 in school. In my early schools, we had Apple IIs, like the other poster mentioned. Even then, they weren't used for very much (got a lot of settlers across the oregon trail, though). I'm kind of curious about how much you actually used C64s in school, and if you learned to program on them at school or by yourself at home? Surely they were outdated and replaced by the time you reached an age where you might have had the opportunity to learn programming in school?

All that said, my grandfather had a C64 which he hardly used originally - he gave up with it apparently, packed it all up in the original packaging, and stashed it in the basement. He gave it to me when I was in high school and I played around with it because I thought it was cool, and I made an adapter to plug the floppy drive into a modern computer's serial port to download stuff from the internet to use on it, but it didn't hold my interest very long... there's just so much more to fool around with on modern systems.

Re:Riding the back of nostalgia.

[Anonymous Coward]

And this is why your generation sucks at programming.

If you want to peek and poke, just write a kernel module to support it; shouldn't be too hard.

Re:Riding the back of nostalgia.

[Aldric]

Yes... 40 years of experience will do that for you. You could say the same of many professions.

What's the point??

[JamesP]

Really, what's the point.

Well, I had a Commodore 64 (or was it a Vic=20, never knew the difference and I was barely old enough to use it)

The age of different consumer computer archs is over, unfortunatelly, gone with the last Apple PPC. It made sense on those days, but now...

I don't see the point of grabbing a PC and slapping a C64 sticker on it. At least it should come with a C64 emulator :P :P

Re:What's the point??

[Anonymous Coward]

Quick way to jog your memory: Did it use floppy disks, or did you happen to use cartridges? I don't recall the Vic-20 having a floppy drive, so that would gear towards the C64. If you had carts, were they about the size of an Atari 2600 cart (You could hold it longwise between thumb and fore-finger, about two inches for the port) or were they much wider (like, 6 inches or more?) The C64 had the smaller carts, while the Vic-20 had the wide ones.

Re:What's the point??

[JamesP]

It used a tape recorder, but I don't remember how wide the cartridge was...

Hmmmm...

[damstrong7611]

Hmmmm.. Wonder if it's backwards compatible..??

Re:Hmmmm...

[tepples]

Hmmmm.. Wonder if it's backwards compatible..??

VICE should answer that question handily.

Re:Hmmmm...

[Anonymous Coward]

From that page I conclude you do not get SID class audio capability, unless you use extra PCI card:

".. with a CatWeasel PCI card, is planned to perform hardware SID playback (requires optional SID chip installed in socket)."

Not really a comeback

[zr-rifle]

... but a rebranding that - put simply - insults the name of the good old '64.

Seriously: what does this have to do with the old 8bit microcomputer?

• Can I peek or poke the memory?
• Can I play Turrican and Hawkeye on it?
• Does it have a SID?
• Does it even read my old datassettes?

• And yes... it does run Linux, sadly...
  
  Those wishing to a Commodore 64 should look elsewhere (or Ellsworth - haha, lame I know...)

Re:Not really a comeback

[tepples]

Can I peek or poke the memory?

Yes. It's called a kernel debugger (yes, correctly spelled this time).

Can I play Turrican and Hawkeye on it?

Yes, in a suitable emulator.

Does it have a SID?

It has a much more powerful software synthesizer that can do a good job of emulating the SID.

Re:Not really a comeback

[lxs]

It runs a crappy excuse for an operating system made by Microsoft. So in that way it is very similar to the old 64.

Re:Not really a comeback

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually it doesn't run Linux I've heard they ported GEOS to 64bit

Re:Not really a comeback

[zr-rifle]

I might be feeding the trolls, but still...

>Yes, in a suitable emulator.
Then just get a free emulator such as VICE or Frodo, that more than capable of running on even a 486DX2.

Using PEEK or POKE from a BASIC prompt is at least an order of magnitude easier and more straightforward that messing with around with a kernel debugger of a such a massive operating system such as GNU/Linux. To replicate the Commodore experience you'd need a very stripped down and moderately powerful machine that boots directly into a friendly Python interpreter and provides simple, manipulable hooks into system resources such as the GPU and the sound chip (or any layer of abstraction above). Currently, I do not know of any comparatively easy way to do it on any Linux distribution.

Still, there might be an untapped market for such a device, that might be well understood by dads in their early thirties and fourties. Now that would be something similiar to the C64.

Re:Not really a comeback

[LWATCDR]

They could have put an emulator on and do all this.
I kind of wish someone would create a mythical NextGen C64. Kind of what Commodore might have made if they had made a better C128.
Imagine a 65816 CPU and an HD64180 to replace the z80 .

Re:Not really a comeback

[91degrees]

It has a much more powerful software synthesizer that can do a good job of emulating the SID.

The SID is a quirky piece of hardware, and it's actually pretty hard to emulate it perfectly. Even some cycle accurate simulations have issues with some c64 tunes.

Re:Not really a comeback

[greed]

Troll? Maybe.

But remember who wrote Commodore's BASIC on every machine they made: Microsoft.

The really sad part about the 64's BASIC was the PET/CBM line already had BASIC 4.0, and Commodore went back to 2.0 for the VIC-20 and 64. Which meant there was no disk drive support in BASIC, you had to remember to use file channel numbers and load a special filename to do a directory listing. DOS operations were done with funny open commands. (Back when DOS really was the operating system on the disk drive, not a product from Microsoft written for IBM. Most of the PET/CBM disk drives had two CPUs, though less RAM than the computer.)

Still, it was simple enough that you could load a "wedge" that would use the BASIC line-editor to write assembler programs. When you're that close to the silicon, you learn how computers work or you don't program them.

Re:Not really a comeback

[Yvan256]

I kind of wish someone would create a mythical NextGen C64. Kind of what Commodore might have made if they had made a better C128.

They did. They called it Amiga.

Re:Not really a comeback

[LWATCDR]

No I had an Amiga and I loved it.
Actually several and loved to code for it.
The C64 was a totally different line. I would love to see what would have been the ultimate 8bit computer. The one I described would combine the fastest of the CPU in the 650x line "16-bit mutant" and one of the fastest Z80s ever made.
The Amiga was spiritually closer to the Atari line than the C-64.

Not Commodore 64

[Sockatume]

It's called the "Phoenix". "Commodore" is just the brand.

A computer of rank!

[xerent_sweden]

Looks like the new commodore is a computer of rank, as it's been through major revisions in general. I wonder what kernel it will incorporalte.

Re:A computer of rank!

[Anonymous Coward]

Your pun is rank. In General, if you can not do better than that, you should keep it Private or prepare for corporal punishment.

She's a brick... HOUSE!

[tepples]

This is a Commodore in name only.

So was the Commodore 64; it wasn't even endorsed by Lionel Richie.

which is set to open June 1

[wjousts]

Are you sure that's not April 1?

GEOS

[tepples]

That's interesting. I didn't know you could run Windows with 64K of RAM.

You can't, unless you count GEOS. That's why the 64 in this stands for a 64-bit CPU, like the Nintendo 64.

Ummm....yes!

[Joce640k]

You can do all that with a C64 emulator, yes.

HDTVs with VGA input

[tepples]

At least if it had come with a HDMI port to be by default attached to a HDTV, then it would be closer to the Commodre 64 legacy.

Almost any PC since 1987 can be connected to a TV because most HDTVs sold where I live have a VGA input. But the original C64 also competed with the NES as a game console; how will the new C64 compete with the Xbox 360?

Re:HDTVs with VGA input

[jawtheshark]

Yes, I know... My sister has her computer hooked up to her HDTV that way. Still, I wonder why it's VGA input. Why not DVI? VGA is analog AFAIK, and DVI is digital... Connectig a computer to HDTV using VGA implies digital-analog-digital, where the simple path would be digital-digital which both DVI and HDMI provide.

HDMI seems to be present on all HDTVs, but not DVI... I wonder why...

Re:HDTVs with VGA input

[tepples]

Still, I wonder why it's VGA input. Why not DVI?

TVs tend to have both VGA and HDMI inputs. But a lot of computers, especially netbooks and the like, have room for only one output.

HDMI seems to be present on all HDTVs, but not DVI... I wonder why...

Because HDMI is signal-compatible with DVI, and a cable from a computer's DVI output to a TV's HDMI input is under $10 on Amazon.

Re:HDTVs with VGA input

[jawtheshark]

Because HDMI is signal-compatible with DVI, and a cable from a computer's DVI output to a TV's HDMI input is under $10 on Amazon.

Oh! I didn't know that! Thanks for that information... Gotta get one of those cables for my sister. Her graphics card only has DVI, and she uses a DVI-VGA converter to attach the computer to the VGA input of the HDTV.

Again, many thanks for filling up my ignorance. :-)

Re:HDTVs with VGA input

[Anonymous Coward]

Because many people don't like the restrictive and proprietary DRM bullshit that comes with DVI and even HDMI. I will take a slightly less perfect rip instead of being crippled by corporate hijacking of my system via DVI/HDMI. Fuck DRM, software or hardware based. Anon due to modding topic

Re:HDTVs with VGA input

[tepples]

If someone else ever gets confused about the ports on the back of a TV, point them to cable finder.

Re:HDTVs with VGA input

[jawtheshark]

Bookmarked. Thanks again!

this reminds me of Acorn

[FuckingNickName]

Slap a familiar [UK] logo on a Wintel

Re:this reminds me of Acorn

[Anonymous Coward]

No, don't be so cynical. They make laptops with uniquely high-resolution TFTs

"15.4" Vybrio Wide Screen WXGA (12800x800)"

Would be a bit wide though wouldn't it.

Upgrades?

[wjousts]

From the commodoreusa website:

There’s nothing like it. At just 17.5 inches wide and 2 inches tall, it’s designed to take up far less room — and use far less energy — than any other desktop computer.

So, in other words, it's a desktop that will be a colossal PITA upgrade and will probably use non-standard parts to get everything to fit. All the upgrade inconvenience of a laptop with none of the advantages.

Re:Upgrades?

[dingen]

So, in other words, it's a desktop that will be a colossal PITA upgrade and will probably use non-standard parts to get everything to fit.

Hmm... now that you put it that way, it kinda does resemble the original C64 after all.

Re:Upgrades?

[drinkypoo]

There's nothing like it. At just 17.5 inches wide and 2 inches tall, it's designed to take up far less room -- and use far less energy -- than any other desktop computer.

So, in other words, it's a desktop that will be a colossal PITA upgrade and will probably use non-standard parts to get everything to fit. All the upgrade inconvenience of a laptop with none of the advantages.

Seems more like an updated Amiga 600HD to me. A600 was 14x9.5"x3" and weighed about 6 lbs (with a big goofy external power supply whereon lies the switch... ugh.) 'Course, that had a 68000...

Re:Upgrades?

[danger42]

Or a Mac.

Re:Upgrades?

[MMC Monster]

From the commodoreusa website:

There’s nothing like it. At just 17.5 inches wide and 2 inches tall, it’s designed to take up far less room — and use far less energy — than any other desktop computer.

Ahem.

Mac Mini.

(Not that I'm a fanboi. There are lots of machines in this form factor. System76 used to make an Ubuntu box in a similar form factor, but I can't seem to find it on their website anymore.)

Re:Upgrades?

[wjousts]

Rubbish. The C64 was easily upgradable with plug in cartridges!

Re:Upgrades?

[DerekLyons]

All the upgrade inconvenience of a laptop with none of the advantages.

If it turns out that this C64 + a large monitor is cheaper and a large screen laptop, that could be a huge advantage and potentially popular among the people who buy laptops because they're more compact than desktops.

Re:Upgrades?

[Capt.DrumkenBum]

plug in cartridges == USB

Re:Upgrades?

[Anonymous Coward]

I dunno... Maybe with Linux and www.amigaemulator.com it may pass as the Amiga 650 HD :)

Are they using original C64s...

[AC-x]

... to host their website?

Re:Are they using original C64s...

[will_die]

From the speed I would say more of a Vic-20.

Re:is the Atari 2600 coming back too!!

[dingen]

I'll only care if it comes with a 2600 bit CPU.

E-Mail From America

[eldavojohn]

I am Junis, a refugee from the last regime of the United States. Our former oppressors ridiculed Commodore machines and as such I had hid my 2010 Commodore 64 behind my meager 65" LCD Television. Had it been found, I might have been criticized for buying such a brand of computer by my peers.

I could still see the dust of the pick-up trucks carrying Dell computers out of my village and some friends and I went and dug through the PS3, XBox 360 and Wii cables by the LCD TV where I had hid the computer. They might have derided or laughed at us if they'd found it. It was forbidden, although they used Sega Dreamcasts all of the time. I am now furiously trying to download internets and libraries of congress I've missed from countries like Iran and North Korea. With the changing of the television seasons, "American Idol" and "Lost" are slowly returning to the television stations. Justice, Freedom & Liberty have finally come to my hometown in the United States.

Thankfully and sincerely,
Junis
(sent from my new Commodore 64)

The C64, an eulogy

[zr-rifle]

Since it will be some time before I get to see the good old C64 mentioned on the Slashdot first page, I'd like to say that Jack Tramiel is the unsung hero of the personal computer, even more than Steve Jobs in this regard. He advocated a computer 'for the classes, not for the masses'. By driving down the retail price and selling the C64 in toy stores and Walmart, he created a broader market and introduced a lot of low-to-middle class kids, who could not afford the Apple II or the Macintosh, to the joys of computing.

By sparking the low-cost microcomputer revolution of the eighties, he prepared a whole generation to the modern digital age.

Jack Tramiel's Wikipedia entry.

Re:The C64, an eulogy

[discord5]

I'd like to say that Jack Tramiel is the unsung hero of the personal computer [snip] By sparking the low-cost microcomputer revolution of the eighties, he prepared a whole generation to the modern digital age.

10 PRINT "THANK YOU JACK TRAMIEL"
20 GOTO 10

If it wasn't for the C64 I'd probably have never gotten into this stuff. God only knows what I would've wasted the years as a teenager on.

Re:The C64, an eulogy

[Onymous Coward]

Tramiel was an ass, though. Sure, his contribution to the end effect was good, but talk about mistreatment of engineers. If you want unsung heroes, let's mention Bob Yannes and Al Charpentier and Charles Winterble.

Re:The C64, an eulogy

[gregthebunny]

He advocated a computer 'for the classes, not for the masses'.

Jack Tramiel's Wikipedia entry.

Um... wiki article says:

It was during this time period that he coined the famous phrase, "We need to build computers for the masses, not the classes."

Re:The C64, an eulogy

[Delusion_]

Jack Tramiel may be an unsung hero of the personal computer, but he also had the dubious distinction of playing key roles in the destruction of two of the most important computer companies of the era, Commodore and later, Atari.

Tramiel - and more importantly, his engineers - is often left out in the modern retelling of the personal computer story, which is often presented as if everything that wasn't Intel, Microsoft, and Apple was some sort of bizarre tangental experiment that really didn't matter. Sadly, his management style was typical of the small-minded businessman, who treated his company as a fief and a playground for his personal grudges.

I often wonder how the Amiga would have fared long-term if a more competently-managed company than Commodore had bought it.

Re:The C64, an eulogy

[NJRoadfan]

Bob Yannes did more then contribute to the personal computer. He enabled a generation of musicians to create genres of song that no one could imagine. He was also one of the few people who contributed to both Apple and Commodore in their heydays. The C64 got the SID chip, while the Apple IIgs received the Ensoniq 5503DOC (also found in the Ensoniq Mirage, ESQ-1 and SQ080), both designed by Yannes. Both sound chips have a cult following to this day.

Re:The C64, an eulogy

[zr-rifle]

Yes, sorry about my typo. I actually meant as it says on Wikipedia, else my reasoning wouldn't have made much sense (not it ever did... oh my...)

Re:The C64, an eulogy

[zr-rifle]

Correction, I made a couple of typos and I really meant "for the masses, not for the classes", as Jack said it.

Re:The C64, an eulogy

[zr-rifle]

Tramiel had nothing to do with the Amiga or Commodore's reknown bad management, that came *after* he left the company; try asking David Pleasance about that. Atari was already in bad shape when Tramiel and his son took over.

Tramiel did try to buy out project Lorraine from Hi-Toro, but Commodore managed to land the deal (and 'f*ck up' the machine, as a famous Workbench easter egg recited).

By the way, long live Jay Miner, Commodore's Steve Wozniak.

Re:The C64, an eulogy

[Anonymous Coward]

A bit difficult to say "long live Jay Miner" considering he's been dead for 16 years.

Nope, not a commodore

[damn_registrars]

If it doesn't boot to BASIC, and require

load "*",8,1

to start software, it isn't commodore 64. Case closed.

Re:Nope, not a commodore

[justleavealonemmmkay]

If it requires to

load "*",8,1

it's not a C64, it's a fancy schmancy C64 with 1541.
Spoiled kid!

Re:Nope, not a commodore

[damn_registrars]

it's not a C64, it's a fancy schmancy C64 with 1541.

Indeed, we used the floppy drive as a replacement for our tape drive. We bought the tape drive to replace the manual punchcard-reader prior to that. And the manual punchcard-reader replaced the abacus that was previously used as an analog input device.

Do you want to know how we actually saw what was going on?

Re:Nope, not a commodore

[phantomfive]

Wow, even just reading that I can smell my old C64 in my mind.

Looks just like a ZPC to me

[hazmat2k]

http://www.cybernetman.com/en/products/zero-footprint-pc/ hell, they didn't even bother to change the filenames for the images they nicked off the site

What it really is

[bickerdyke]

Casemod.

nothing more, nothing less. a Wintel-PC with funny hat.

Re:What it really is

[Anonymous Coward]

Where i come from, we don't accept anyone without a funny hat.

Rejected

Ah, that felt good.

A long time ago

[rossdee]

I had a C+64 once. It was the 4th computer I bought.

Re:A long time ago

[Syberz]

And my cat's breath smells like cat food.

This is simply a Cybernet ZPC-GX31 system

[HonestButCurious]

Circa March 2008:
http://www.cybernetman.com/en/products/zero-footprint-pc/zpc-gx31.cfm
They even reused the stock footage.
Should cost at least $700, according to Gizmodo Australia:
http://www.gizmodo.com.au/2008/03/cybernet_zpcgx31_a_pc_in_a_keyboardsized_case-2/

Another nerd joke ruined forever!

[boneglorious]

If this is true, no one will ever laugh again when I shake my head sadly and reminisce over that old C64 I grew up with. They'll be like, "Yeah, and I have an iPhone. What's your point, Grandpa?"

What do you mean comeback....

[eXFeLoN]

comeback? comeback you say? mine has never left service. this is the final straw. will no piece of my childhood not be tentacle raped?

someone get me a butterknife.....

[inerlogic]

TI99/4A
C-64
Apple IIe

all near and dear to my heart....
but they can stay in the past.

(i still own 3 working 99/4As though....)

Good luck slipping that kit...

[L4t3r4lu5]

... into a ZX81 form factor.

ALL HAIL CLIVE SINCLAIR!

Why not Commodore 65

[chipxsd]

Oh, how I wish CBM would release the C65 in the nineties. I grew up with C64, and I know every corner of its hardware and the limitations. C65 would be a right balance between A500 and C64. I wonder what kind of games would be developed for it, and imagine the demoscene, if C65 existed! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodore_65

Re:Why not Commodore 65

[Joce640k]

Ummm...because "64" was the amount of RAM. It's unlikely they'd have made a machine with 65k of RAM.

They did make a more advanced machine with 128k RAM and 2MHz CPU called ... wait for it... the Commodore 128!

But at the end of the day the Amiga killed them both off.

Re:Why not Commodore 65

[49152]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodore_65

The Commodore 65 actually existed ;-)

Re:Why not Commodore 65

[flahwho]

Because there was the C128!

Re:Why not Commodore 65

[Anonymous Coward]

Did you even read the link?

BTW, the jerkstore called...

Re:Why not Commodore 65

[chipxsd]

Well I had C128, and Amiga 500 & 1200... As a coder and composer, I can guarantee, I'm much more creative with hardware limitations.

And if I look at the platforms: C64 was a bit to restricted, and A500 had far to much to offer. I enjoyed using exploits on C64 to achieve the unimaginable (here are a few tricks I'm talking about: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodore_64_demos). But Amiga had much more processing power, everything could be done with planar graphics - where's the fun in that?

Not to mention the SID, love the sound of it - and sampled music just can't replace the analogue synths.

You've mentioned C128 ... C65 would be a successor to it. But if you ask me, C128 was a total fail, not to mention the damn overheating problems...

But you're right, C65 was discontinued because of the Amiga - it was cheaper and faster...

Ps: I mentioned the C65 because, if Commodore is really making the C64 (x86) PC, they should rather finish the C65 project.

Re:Why not Commodore 65

[chipxsd]

C128 was older than C65's development, it would be a successor to it.

MUST HAVE

[Anonymous Coward]

I dont' care if I have a system that is the same, but better....IT LOOKS LIKE IT I MUST HAVE IT !!!!!

Anyways, even if it's inferior to what I already have, supporting this could lead to a comeback that would stick, which in turn may allow for design of hardware that is true to Amiga....

But!

[Arvisp]

with a set of hindges (sold separately) you can attach iPad to it and make half decent laptop.

Other old-name mis-use

[asdf7890]

This is not the only famous old computer related name+logo that is being "miss used" to flog PC parts. See http://www.acorncomputers.co.uk/ for another example.

Mike Tyson makes comeback, regains title!

[elrous0]

David Haye announced today that he's changing his name to "Mike Tyson." What a comeback!

Gotta have one!

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh wow... a laptop without a screen... That's useful. Oh, wait. It's not.

Huh?

[Whispers_in_the_dark]

"During the same panel, Apple co-founders Steve Wozniak and Steve Jobs approached Commodore with an Apple II prototype, which was much more advanced in color, graphics, sound and games. Apple at the time didn't have the money to make and sell the Apple II, and was hoping Commodore would push the design to market. Commodore, however, preferred to develop the Commodore 64 as a simpler, lower-cost, black-and-white-only machine. "

AFAIK, the C-64 was never a black-and-white only machine and had a very good color spectrum (16 prinicple colors to apple's six -- 15 if you used "color mixing"). Yeah, there were limitations to which colors were assigned to which 8x8 pixel blocks on C-64, but game developers seemed to get by just fine. I have no clue where they got the idea that the Apple had better sound (or games for that matter).

wireless video

[llZENll]

Include a free wireless HD video receiver and suddenly it is every ones new living room gadget to hook up to their HDTV.

Security risk blocked for your protection

[Anonymous Coward]

What the heck used to be at this site? My company's Websense is blocking it.

Fact checkers suck

[The Breeze]

Like how the original article described the Commodore 64 as a "black and white only machine, no color" when comparing it to the Apple II. Uh, sprites? Color graphics? Maybe they were thinking of the Commodore PET, which actually had green text.

It's about time.

[IGnatius T Foobar]

Yes, I know, it's a Commodore in name only. However, it's about time that someone gave this venerable form factor another shot in the market. Why should I throw away a perfectly good monitor every couple of years just because the Macintosh inside it is obsolete? I've been saying for years that they should build the guts of the computer into the keyboard, not the monitor.

I'm ready to see this form factor start to get deployed again. Now that the typical desktop computer doesn't have quite as many cables coming out of it as it did a few years ago, it's time.

It claims OS X support?

[benwiggy]

If you go to the company's website, on the link in the article, they claim it will run OS X. Interesting to see how quickly Apple's lawyers move in for the kill

Oh, and I submitted this story to Slashdot a week ago. Tsk.

Re:It claims OS X support?

[justleavealonemmmkay]

As long as they don't provide the OS, Apple can do shit about it. My eeepc 1000HE runs retail Snow Leopard just fine, and this required no modification at hardware level.

That ain't a C64

[Anonymous Coward]

load"*",8,1

'load"*"' is not recognized as an internal or external command,
operable program or batch file.

So? A Mac isn't a Mac, by that logic

[mdwh2]

And Macs aren't Macs, Apple are just re-using the trademark. (Different OS, different hardware - it's like Trigger's Broom... "Macs" today are just PCs, no different to this new Commodore 64.)

Which is entirely correct of course, but I don't see your surprise. It's perfectly normal in computing, or indeed all kinds of products, for popular trademarks to be used, even when the underlying technology changes, or even is entirely different.

Or do you think the current Intel Pentiums are like the original? No, they just re-used the trademark for their cut down Core Duos. AMD have now done the same thing with the Athlon trademark.

Re:A Mac In Name Only

[mdwh2]

Let's see, imagine this posted to a story about the latest "Mac":

"TFA says it's an Intel x86 based machine running OS X. The only thing Mac about this thing is that it's got an Apple logo, and even that's a stretch. This is a Mac in name only."

(And I presume you meant Commodore 64 - you seem to be forgetting that Commodore was a company - and they made PCs!)

Yes, thank you Captain Obvious, yes, you are right that just because it shares the trademark doesn't mean it's exactly the same product. Welcome to the world of business - that's how it works for just about everything.

No Cartridges

[Johnberg]

So, not only will this thing not come loaded with C64 emulation software, it won't have the required Game Cartridge slot. What a waste of a name licensing opportunity.

Re:This is not a Mac at all

[mdwh2]

I bet the new Macs don't even have 128K of RAM!

Seriously, what's with all these comments - why don't you go and post them to all the Mac stories? Or all the Windows stories, saying how it's not Windows, because Windows was a GUI that ran on DOS?

Cartriges?

[goombah99]

If it's a hoax then why is Orange Micro is partnering with Pystar to bring out a Mac OSX emulation cartridge?

Only the intermediary speaks about C64

[gwolf]

...And with little to no knowledge about it -- Yes, I RTFA. Among the jewels:

During the same panel, Apple co-founders Steve Wozniak and Steve Jobs approached Commodore with an Apple II prototype, which was much more advanced in color, graphics, sound and games. Apple at the time didn't have the money to make and sell the Apple II, and was hoping Commodore would push the design to market. Commodore, however, preferred to develop the Commodore 64 as a simpler, lower-cost, black-and-white-only machine.

I have no insight on the Steves' attempt... But if you say the C64 was black-and-white-only machine, it means you have never been close to one -- Its graphic capabilities were at least up to par with Apple ]['s. And its sound was incredibly better.

Oh, and if from TFA you go to the company's website, you will see something that is way closer to an Amiga descendent than a C64 descendent (two of their available operating systems are Amiga-relted -- AmigaOS and AROS). Of course, the machine is neither a C64 nor an Amiga.

It's almost as saying I have a Xerox PARC at my desktop only because it has a mouse and sorta-windows.

Web site needs major overhaul...

[Anonymous Coward]

Their Web site looks like it was developed by my 11-year old daughter. They had better work on that if they want people to take them seriously.

Programmer's Reference Manual

[Anonymous Coward]

The spirit of the old C64 was embodied in the fine Programmer's Reference Manual, which showed:
  - Complete schematics,
  - Machine language instructions,
  - Hardware specs & programming examples for all chips,
  - Full documentation of EVERY BYTE in the memory & operating system.
If the manufacturer could supply this, there would be a STAMPEDE to buy this box! (I would be first in line...)

Re:is the Atari 2600 coming back too!!

[CTalkobt]

Actually the Atari 2600 had a very similair chip to the C=64. I believe on the 2600 it was a varient of the 6502 - on the C64 it was a 6510 (basicallty a stock 6502 + 2 I/O lines). So yes, it essentially does come with an Atari 2600 cpu.

See wikipedia for more info on the Atari 2600 / C=64 chip differences.

Re:is the Atari 2600 coming back too!!

[dingen]

I think you should read my post again.

That's all well and good, but...

[DragonTHC]

Will it run moon patrol? or lunar lander? Or Lode Runner, or manic miner, or even zork?

Re:That's all well and good, but...

[FuzzyFox]

Actually, Zork runs on anything.

chip?

[Anonymous Coward]

"You think your Commodore 64 is pretty neato,
what kinda chip you got in there, a Dorito?"
  - Al Yankovic

whatever happened?

[Necroloth]

When I saw this, I thought it was Commodore relaunching again - the ones that had lots of designed cases (C-Kin) but priced high like alienware. What happened to them? I had several designs on there.

Re:A Mac In Name Only

[omnichad]

Well at least Mac's run a new version of Mac OS. It was compiled from the same code as for the PowerPC, until the most recent version of Mac OS X. Now sure, those PowerPC Mac's are Macs in name only. It's not like they have a 68000 CPU. But still run the same Mac OS as on the 68000, or at least a similar GUI.

Re:is the Atari 2600 coming back too!!

[CTalkobt]

I think you should read my post again.

I did ... I had two choices.

Either assume that you're trying to be funny or that you typed too quickly in attempt to make first post.

Judging by the lack of any funny mods I'm assuming I made the right choice

Not hoax, but rebranding of existing product.

[Ch_Omega]

Actually, I'm pretty sure it's the exact same product as the Zero Footprint PC, exept, maybe they put a Commodore C= Sticker on it, and market it as a new Commodore 64.

Seriously, compare these two pictures: Zero Footprint PC and "new" Commodore 64. Looks similar?

Strange corporate ties

[Zippy_wonderslug]

The phone number on the Contact Us section of the website belongs to Homecraft a furniture company. Don't know if they would be using the same manufacturing process, but the website looks just as cheap. http://www.homecraft.us/contact_us.html

Backwards compatible?

[SoundGuyNoise]

Call me when it has a 5 1/4" floppy drive feature so I can play my classic games right off the disc.

Shouldn't that be...

[whitroth]

... a Commodore 256? I mean, 64 bit x 4 cores....

                      mark

Commodore BASIC

[OrangeTide]

Yes, it ships with Ubuntu.

Commodore BASIC Black

Price: No Price
Prod. Code: CBS-C2D-7500-2-160-D-B
System Color: Silver or Black
Network Adapter (NIC): Integrated 10/100/1000MB Ethernet
Intel® Processors: Intel® Core(TM) 2 Duo Processor E7500 (2.93GHz, 3MB, 1066MHz FSB)
            This CPU does not support Windows® XP Virtualization in Windows® 7
Memory: 2GB DDR2 Non-ECC SDRAM, 800MHz
Hard Drive: 160GB SATA, 7200 RPM Hard Drive
Optical Drive: Dual-Layer DVD+/-RW drive + Nero express 7 Essentials
Operating System: Ubuntu 9.10 Desktop Edition CD
Warranty: 1Yr Warranty + Lifetime Phone Support

What about SID?

[istartedi]

At the very least, they could put a SID chip in there, in addition to a modern sound card. They could also support hundreds of virtual instances of the original C64 on such a machine. They could load it with all the original ROMs too, including BASIC.

Genuine SID sound would really rock though. I understand there are some SID clones being made. The original vintage chips are available too, they could put those in a "special edition" and charge more.

For those not aware, the SID chip made the sounds on the C64. It was a digital-analog hybrid, and thus has some unique qualities.

Still waiting....

[sheph]

Not interested. I'm holding out for the new TI 99/4A.

Those were the days.

[Anonymous Coward]

This is not a commodore, it is just another PC clone.

I remember the blue screen with the prompt and having to load in the directory listing from the disk. At the end I used a C128 with a RAM based 1GB disk drive, it booted GEOS 128 instantly. I used this computer with a dot matrix printer for college. I even was asked several times what computer I had prepared the reports on. ( I cheated and xeroxed in graphs and charts into blank spaces I had left in the reports.)

I still think that extending the chips out just a bit to be just slightly more capable, stereo sound, 65,000 color screen, hdmi connector, 1GB of RAM with a GEOS that is modified to take full advantage of the improvements could still be a kill for a lot less than any existing computer. Use a couple of dedicated chips for audio/video decoding. Use SDHC for storage.

commodore64 site

[__aavqan3009]

really? nice site.

Bah! Quad processors...

[plopez]

If it doesn't have a 6501/6502 processor it isn't a C64. We had a nice tight 8-bit instruction set. And we liked it! It was easy to learn.

And kids these days, most of them have never poked a computer. What's up with that? [1]

We had a whopping 64K of ram. And we liked.

We had an expansion slots. And we liked it! We had 5" floppy drives. None these new fangled hard drives. And we liked it! [2]

Mine had some add on software that turned the keyboard into a synthesizer, complete with plastic keyboard overlay. It played the Eurythmics "Sweet Dreams Are Made of These". And I liked it!

Now get off of my lawn!

[1] That was a joke, intended to appear unintentionally funny (for those of you slow to get it).

[2] See footnote above.

Re:Clear Hoax ??

[bwcbwc]

Maybe not, after all the "Commodore USA store" "is set to open June1". Could just be an alpha/prototype of the eventual site.

Still, as others have said, this is just another story of a Chinese manufacturer licensing a well-known brand name to slap onto their product. At least the product vaguely resembles what the original would have been if it were upgraded to modern hardware.

To all the smarts pants that says this is just a "

[Anonymous Coward]

To all the smarts pants that says this is just a "ZPC" rebadged ....

Yes, you are right... AND SO WHAT?

I will shed some tears having one plugged to my 22" monitor, after all that machines and all machines from that time kicked into the wonderful hobby of debugging... err programming.

If you don't like them, vote with your wallet... But if you are an old fart as me, just fire this with a ruby interpreter and pretend you are back to the nices times while you were writing your own pacman with letter "C" as main character in the play, (Hey I'm nostalgic but not idiotic I will not touch commodore basic with a stick nowadays ;-) )

Ports

[Dan East]

Is this thing for real? Why does it have a parallel port, 2 serial ports, PS/2 connectors, DVI output, S-Video output, and a CF reader? These ports date this thing back at least 5 years.

The hardware is actually rather cheap looking, especially when viewed from the sides. The case looks like cheap plastic with a poor finish.

Did I fall asleep?

[MrWin2kMan]

The hardware specs are dated....soooooo last decade.......and the industrial design is clunky. Clearly not ready for prime time. It doesn't look any different than the OEM all-in-one's I've seen advertised in the back of eWeek for years. LGA775? It does use a SATA HDD, but PATA for the DVD, which really should be a slot load. A modem is bad enough, but parallel, serial and PS/2 ports? C'mon, this design's Use-by date has expired.

Re:Did I fall asleep?

[logicassasin]

And none of that will matter to the average PC consumer. The person that would buy their next machine on the cheap from Walmart would likely buy one of these as long as the price is comparable. For the average PC user, the one that checks email, does a little word processing, and maybe watches something on Youtube or downloads music, even this machine is overkill.

Re:This makes me feel black; I used my C64 until 1

[RackinFrackin]

I think you mean

10 poke 53280,0
20 poke 53281,0

why goto 10?

Sick!

[Anonymous Coward]

Sick!

Cassettes?

[Geek_Cop]

Does this mean I can dig out my cassette drive? Oh how I miss waiting 80 minutes for a game to load! I really would like to browse the old database I made in 6th grade that ranked all the girls in the school with their bud scale ratings. How I would love to show THAT off on Facebook now. Ahhh the glory days.

Nyah nyah

[Anonymous Coward]

And no cool friends?

C=!

What would get me to buy it...

[Sabalon]

Because the Internet cares about my opinion :) Srsly, as someone with a C-64 at work and home, yeah..fanboy :)

While I think it looks neat, if they would bundle a quality C-64 emulator WITH most of the old games (yeah...legal issues galore) then I would grab it up.

Modern engineering

[bored]

It's an Intel running windows/linux to host a c64 emulator at 500Mhz. That's because its cheaper to engineer a 500mhz C64 using an x86 and an emulator than design one from scratch. Chuckle...

Old school computers (also old-school computers)

[Tetsujin]

I'm kind of curious about how much you actually used C64s in school, and if you learned to program on them at school or by yourself at home?

Looking back I think the situation at my school was kind of odd... We primarily had Apple II series computers (middle school in late 80s/early 90s had a lab full of Apple IIe's - and individual classrooms might have an Apple IIc or the occasional IIgs) but there were Commodores around, too... There was one in my homeroom (I don't know what it was ever used for, apart from kids just goofing around with it in free time) and one in the art room (which had a Koalapad)... In high school a lot of the classrooms had a IIgs (for the teachers' use, I guess?) and there was a lab of old TRS-80's used to teach Basic, and some Macs, and their first handful of PCs...

Home computers were very eclectic in the 1980s. I guess the schools just sort of reflected that. Still, I'm not quite clear about when, why, and how they got themselves some C64s. Apple had some kind of established deal to get their computers into the classroom, I believe... So how did they make the decision to acquire some C64s? It's a bit of a mystery from my perspective.

Press release a week early

[LandGator]

Wasn't this press release dated 2010-04-01 ?

Will this be like the return of

[Compaqt]

KITT?

Old hardware support?

[DaVince21]

I'd just like to be able to connect any of my old C64 (and as a bonus, possibly Amiga) hardware to it and just play the games without any extra hassle. Connect the 5 inch floppy drive, insert a disk, load it onto the computer and play (and/or generate into disk image)!

Since this product is in no way related to an actual Commodore 64, however, fat chance they'll ever do something like that. Bah.

CYBERNET warning

[flahwho]

Our company used 0FPC's from cybernet a few years instead of the iei industrial SBC-style we use now. This was before i started with the company in 2003. Of the 50 or so systems used, can you guess how many f'n bricks i have now? Yeah, about 50. ALL of them died within 3 years.