Their current PE is not 35, but 52.65. Do the math 2007 earnings was 0.52, and current stock price is 27.38. That makes a PE of 52.65! WAY WAY overpriced.
Their earnings growth has typically been 50% year over year so you could argue that now is an average price. BUT here is the problem.
In the past two years their earnings has contracted, meaning that 50 PE is overvalued. And their 2008 earnings is about the same as last years. Thus their PEG is 0... In other words you are overpaying for a stock!
Yahoo is dead from a fiscal perspective! They just don't know it. Its another AOL, Netscape, etc... Need I continue?
BTW the big problem of Yahoo is that it tries to be everything to everybody and that is not what people want. If Google is an example they are a point to find things, not be things. Yahoo is a point to be things, not find things and that is wrong.
Oh yes I am paid by MS (sarcasm)... Care to show proof?
No, my side hobby is investing in the market. Yes I am long MSFT, but I am also long AAPL. I would be long GOOG, but I find GOOG a bit too opaque for my tastes. Though they are a good company.
My point is that I am looking at this deal from a financial perspective and Yahoo is an idiot...
What's going to happen is worse. They simply will not deal in the US. Just like how now there are companies that don't sell in California. Guess what will happen in the future? They will not sell their services or goods to American's.
Once companies stop dealing with America, America will have a bigger problem on its hands. Because then they will have a circle of knowledge that is completely opaque to the Americans.
What lists like these assume is that you are a known entity. Yes it will stop the stupid criminals, but it will not stop the smart and determined criminals.
To give you an example. Just recently about a year ago they arrested a top Mob boss who was on the run for 4 decades. How did he evade them this long? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernardo_Provenzano
He was a careful operator, who took few overt risks, revealing his whereabouts to only a handful of associates. He shunned the telephone and issued orders and communications (even to his family) through small, hand-delivered notes
If you are not on the map then you are invisible. And if you are invisible then you are the threat. By creating a list you are not reducing the threat, nor being effective.
I also upgraded to Office 2007. And at first I thought WTF? But now I REALLY like it. They REALLY got it right. I am as surprised as the other person.
Though what is a dud, even after two months is Vista! Man that is a dud. Here are my reasons.
1) Why is Vista constantly inspecting my hard disk? If my hard disk were 10 Gigs, fine so be it. But I have a terrabyte with pictures from 10 Megapixel cameras, email, documents, etc. It takes hours for them to churn.
2) UAC. What a piece of garbage. I develop and I had to turn it off. It just got in my way.
3) UI trying to be friendly, but just gets in the way.
Vista is a REAL dud operating system. Vista to me reminds me of the Pinto...
Are you being serious here? I would argue that the European Unions are no stronger than the American ones. What you see are snippets from TV that make it appear that they seem stronger.
Were the 50's and 60's better? Racism, male chauvinist oinks, and the boys club mentality... Add on the lack of being able to fly easily, travel easily, or have any luxuries.
You know you can live like the 50's and 60's. I am serious here. Get rid of your cable subscription, your cell phone subscription, have a single car, and everything that you did not have in the 50's and 60's. And you can live quite well.
The problem we have is that you have all of these additional costs because you want them. For example one of the things I have done away with is a cellular phone subscription. Here in Europe people look quite strange at me. I just say, "hey I hardly use it and it saves me quite a bit of money."
The problem is not immigration. Look at the following website.
The immigration levels at the time you talk so fondly of were per-capita higher than now.
The real problem is that due to globalization the West has to realize it is overpaid. The developing countries are just as smart and just as able, but paid less because they can be.
Heck, I have had to take a massive pay cut so that I can compete in the market place. But I take in stride as I have to.
>When they do that, the job and money stays IN OUR economy. We're talking here about H1-B visa workers...temporary workers that have no intention on staying here and becoming US citizens.
I call BS... The reason why there are so many H1-B visas is because America does not let anything else in.
I am quite serious here, as my wife and I were confronted with this situation. If you look at the visas of America there are no "skilled labor" immigrations like there is in Canada or Australia. In fact America is actually one of the few countries that focuses on family based immigration.
Look at your government statistics and you will see that per capita there is very little immigration to America. Per capita America has 25% of the immigration that Australia and Canada have. And of that immigration about 60%+ is family based. In Australia and Canada it is in reverse.
Let's see... American's are loud mouths who want nothing more to do than make war with other countries.
As you said...
>Just because you observe something, and it happens to be another race, culture or whatever, doesn't make you racist or xenophobic.
And you said...
> Sorry if what I and others have observed working with [Americans], but, I cannot believe that all of us are making it up independantly. There must be some truth to it for these things to be stated so prevalently....sorry, but grow some thicker skin. If it doesn't apply to you, then don't worry about it.
BTW I live in Switzerland and I have met Americans like this, and thus they must like this, no?
Putting this into a REAL context. I have lived in North America (Canada, and the US) and Europe and did work in India. The reality is that you have idiots everywhere, and you have smart folks everywhere.
The problem with your comments is that they are not PC based, but slander. Many folks confuse slander with PC, but they are two separate things. PC is to use the term person instead of man.
Slander is when you make comments like the following:
"I think many of the complaints against them and skills....are due to culture. It is so different than in the US with the caste system, etc"
You freely admit:
"No, I don't know much about Indian culture, never been there, never had much need to learn it, but, from what little I do know or have read about, that was what I was basing my guess on as to the reasons behind my observations"
In other words you are talking out of your butt, which by legal terms is called SLANDER!
It's funny that people don't realize this. Look at the market value of the companies you named. Look at their revenues. And then look at the market cap of Red Hat and Novell. Pitiful... Shows you that closed source is actually more profitable...
The problem here is not the dialog box. The problem here is Windows security! Windows security with its ACL's is bone headed complicated and it requires administrative rights more times than not.
I use Linux and while there are times a dialog box pops up, it is not needed as often.
Here is an example of boneheadedness. I write Excel applications that tie together with.NET. When I need to debug I need to run the Excel spreadsheet AND process to debug in administrative roles... WTF?
The problem relates to how COM grants you rights to do certain things as a user. And when you are debugging you need more rights... WTF? Under Linux it would not matter because both are running in the context of the user and hence it can be debugged.
Actually you are wrong here. Microsoft does not need to pay more. Wait until Microsoft pulls out. You will hear that great big hissing noise calling Yahoo collapsing... And the worst part is that there will be shorts from all of the wood work coming out.
This is s short opportunity where you could get an instant 50% return. That will make anybody salivate...
No I think you will see that shareholders will like MS value. This Legg Mason is crying sour grapes because he has more shares of Yahoo than Microsoft.
Seriously if you look at the shareholders you can see that those in favor have more Microsoft shares, and those not in favor have more Yahoo shares.
The share price Microsoft is offering is fair from a PE valuation perspective. Do the math and you will see when Yahoo had better earnings it matched the peak share value. The problem that Yahoo has is that it SUCKS AS A COMPANY from a revenue perspective.
Yang has his head up his a** and he is so darn proud that "oh no this company cannot get taken over by Microsoft."
Personally I would be, "ok you want to pay me a few billion? Hey sure and then I will start a new company again."
The would probably win a proxy fight because those investors who have shares in Yahoo have more shares in MSFT. Thus for them it would be beneficial for MSFT to win.
If MSFT does not win then this latest move by Yahoo to work with Google is pure boneheadedness. If Yahoo does not get taken over watch their share price collapse... And not just a little collapse, but whole honken collapse.
You bring up an important point here. A lie is only a lie if you believe it is a lie. If you believe the lie is the truth then all of the lie detectors in the world ain't gonna get you one step closer.
What bothers me in all of this is that you are going to catch the idiots who can't lie. The ones who are sophisticated enough to get through are the ones that we need to worry about, and they will not be caught.
The more I see technology being applied the more worried I get that people will not understand what is the truth or reality. Look at the past few slashdot articles where people seem to have figured out how to predict the future...
The issue here is not that China was given the Olympics. But the issue here is that China is squandering their opportunity to show that they have come along...
No, instead what we see is a totalitarian state that pretends to be capitalistic... Yeah whatever... Though they never fooled me once, hence why I refuse to invest in any Chinese corporation.
I don't think that you are wrong. It's just that there is this gray zone that Google is exploiting right now. And they will tend to err on the side of "let's push it more for our own benefit."
I think what Google really buggered up is the street sign that said private road. That they should have caught.
>Their "News service" is biased the same way - they'll run Hezbollah and Hamas "newspapers" but not western news organizations that catch those groups lying every day.
Sorry, but you are wrong here. I do critique Google, but I happen to like their news service. The reality with their news service is that they link EVERYBODY.
What I see in your posting is that you want to say is Google is anti-Bush and anti-conservative. Sorry, but you are reading too much into that.
One of the things that Google needs to change is the behavior, "we do first, and you can remove later."
It sort of reminds me of the idea, "hey I will walk along the neighborhood and attempt to open all doors and see which ones are unlocked. Of course if you tell me after the fact then I will not do it again later on."
So why does Google do this? Simple, its their entire business model. Think about. Imagine if Google had to get the OK from everybody before submitting pictures, web search, and book contents. That would absolutely kill their revenue.
James Simons's $29 billion Renaissance Institutional Equities Fund has fallen 8.7 percent so far in August when his computer models used to buy and sell stocks were overwhelmed by securities' price swings. The two-year-old quantitative, or 'quant,' hedge fund now has declined 7.4 percent for the year. Simons said other hedge funds have been forced to sell positions, short-circuiting statistical models based on the relationships among securities."
BTW I use Quant methods as well, and I am as of last Friday up 5.4% on the year! With some stock picks being up a whopping 26%! (Apple was one my picks. I got in at 119)
The point is that quant methods ALWAYS break down. In fact if anything has been proven by this stock market whipping is that quants are just as much "idiots" as regular folks. And that is actually a good thing.
And what bothers me are things like the following:
"For the LRMC model, we used all of the game data (home team, visiting team, margin of victory) from the beginning of the season until just before the start of the tournament; we obtained this data, as well as tournament results, on line from Yahoo! daily scoreboards [24]. We note that neutral-site non-tournament games were unknown in our data set; the team listed as âoehomeâ on the scoreboard was considered the home team in our data"
What they did is dig through the past and see how it does in the future. I know from my own financial clients the problem is that you will always find winning systems. That's actually pretty easy. The problem is that can they actually predict. And most of the time the answer is NO.
And like the poster said, "if this works so well why are they not betting?" Betting and the stock market are two places where it makes more sense to use your "system" than to talk about your system. You can literally make millions using your system. Yet here they are writing a paper...
I know you are anonymous... But you know this is what bothers me. Yes you are being cynical or funny.
And the worst part is that I feel that I have to explain myself:
SerpentMage: Tracy Hickman, and Margret Weiss Death Gate Cycle series. One of my favorite book series and my favorite character was SerpentMage. A good read.
But getting back to the point, this is what goes through people's mind...
Slashdot Mirror
Huh?
http://www.cnbc.com/id/15837281?q=yhoo
Their current PE is not 35, but 52.65. Do the math 2007 earnings was 0.52, and current stock price is 27.38. That makes a PE of 52.65! WAY WAY overpriced.
Their earnings growth has typically been 50% year over year so you could argue that now is an average price. BUT here is the problem.
In the past two years their earnings has contracted, meaning that 50 PE is overvalued. And their 2008 earnings is about the same as last years. Thus their PEG is 0... In other words you are overpaying for a stock!
Yahoo is dead from a fiscal perspective! They just don't know it. Its another AOL, Netscape, etc... Need I continue?
BTW the big problem of Yahoo is that it tries to be everything to everybody and that is not what people want. If Google is an example they are a point to find things, not be things. Yahoo is a point to be things, not find things and that is wrong.
Oh yes I am paid by MS (sarcasm)... Care to show proof?
No, my side hobby is investing in the market. Yes I am long MSFT, but I am also long AAPL. I would be long GOOG, but I find GOOG a bit too opaque for my tastes. Though they are a good company.
My point is that I am looking at this deal from a financial perspective and Yahoo is an idiot...
If you think that Yahoo which is trading over 40 to 50 PE as lowball well then YAHOO is crazy.
Look at the earnings growth of Yahoo for the past five years. IT IS pitiful. Yahoo is being too arrogant for its own good.
Personally, I think Microsoft should just walk away. Watch that Yahoo stock drop faster than gravity.
What's going to happen is worse. They simply will not deal in the US. Just like how now there are companies that don't sell in California. Guess what will happen in the future? They will not sell their services or goods to American's.
Once companies stop dealing with America, America will have a bigger problem on its hands. Because then they will have a circle of knowledge that is completely opaque to the Americans.
What lists like these assume is that you are a known entity. Yes it will stop the stupid criminals, but it will not stop the smart and determined criminals.
To give you an example. Just recently about a year ago they arrested a top Mob boss who was on the run for 4 decades. How did he evade them this long? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernardo_Provenzano
He was a careful operator, who took few overt risks, revealing his whereabouts to only a handful of associates. He shunned the telephone and issued orders and communications (even to his family) through small, hand-delivered notes
If you are not on the map then you are invisible. And if you are invisible then you are the threat. By creating a list you are not reducing the threat, nor being effective.
Hey I am glad you mentioned doctorswithoutborders...
Did you know...
http://www.doctorswithoutborders.org/volunteer/field/personnel.cfm?id=2531
*************
Benefits Offered to MSF Field Staff
Accommodation in New York City and Europe during briefings and debriefings
Starting monthly salary of $1300 gross
Comprehensive medical, disability and life insurance coverage
Round-trip transportation
Room and board in project country
Per diem during assignment in local currency
Reimbursement of mission-specific vaccinations
Letter of support for student loan deferment
Payment of interest on student loans after first field assignment and for six months thereafter
*************
Did you happen to read the bit about the money? Or how about the bit where you get room and board, and insurance, and a host of other benefits.
Gee does that mean Open Source and its problems were accurately pinpointed by Bill Gates... Hmmm...
I also upgraded to Office 2007. And at first I thought WTF? But now I REALLY like it. They REALLY got it right. I am as surprised as the other person.
Though what is a dud, even after two months is Vista! Man that is a dud. Here are my reasons.
1) Why is Vista constantly inspecting my hard disk? If my hard disk were 10 Gigs, fine so be it. But I have a terrabyte with pictures from 10 Megapixel cameras, email, documents, etc. It takes hours for them to churn.
2) UAC. What a piece of garbage. I develop and I had to turn it off. It just got in my way.
3) UI trying to be friendly, but just gets in the way.
Vista is a REAL dud operating system. Vista to me reminds me of the Pinto...
Are you being serious here? I would argue that the European Unions are no stronger than the American ones. What you see are snippets from TV that make it appear that they seem stronger.
This is political populism...
Were the 50's and 60's better? Racism, male chauvinist oinks, and the boys club mentality... Add on the lack of being able to fly easily, travel easily, or have any luxuries.
You know you can live like the 50's and 60's. I am serious here. Get rid of your cable subscription, your cell phone subscription, have a single car, and everything that you did not have in the 50's and 60's. And you can live quite well.
The problem we have is that you have all of these additional costs because you want them. For example one of the things I have done away with is a cellular phone subscription. Here in Europe people look quite strange at me. I just say, "hey I hardly use it and it saves me quite a bit of money."
The problem is not immigration. Look at the following website.
http://www.fairus.org/site/PageServer?pagename=research_research05b5
The immigration levels at the time you talk so fondly of were per-capita higher than now.
The real problem is that due to globalization the West has to realize it is overpaid. The developing countries are just as smart and just as able, but paid less because they can be.
Heck, I have had to take a massive pay cut so that I can compete in the market place. But I take in stride as I have to.
>When they do that, the job and money stays IN OUR economy. We're talking here about H1-B visa workers...temporary workers that have no intention on staying here and becoming US citizens.
I call BS... The reason why there are so many H1-B visas is because America does not let anything else in.
I am quite serious here, as my wife and I were confronted with this situation. If you look at the visas of America there are no "skilled labor" immigrations like there is in Canada or Australia. In fact America is actually one of the few countries that focuses on family based immigration.
Look at your government statistics and you will see that per capita there is very little immigration to America. Per capita America has 25% of the immigration that Australia and Canada have. And of that immigration about 60%+ is family based. In Australia and Canada it is in reverse.
Let's see... American's are loud mouths who want nothing more to do than make war with other countries.
As you said...
>Just because you observe something, and it happens to be another race, culture or whatever, doesn't make you racist or xenophobic.
And you said...
> Sorry if what I and others have observed working with [Americans], but, I cannot believe that all of us are making it up independantly. There must be some truth to it for these things to be stated so prevalently....sorry, but grow some thicker skin. If it doesn't apply to you, then don't worry about it.
BTW I live in Switzerland and I have met Americans like this, and thus they must like this, no?
Putting this into a REAL context. I have lived in North America (Canada, and the US) and Europe and did work in India. The reality is that you have idiots everywhere, and you have smart folks everywhere.
The problem with your comments is that they are not PC based, but slander. Many folks confuse slander with PC, but they are two separate things. PC is to use the term person instead of man.
Slander is when you make comments like the following:
"I think many of the complaints against them and skills....are due to culture. It is so different than in the US with the caste system, etc"
You freely admit:
"No, I don't know much about Indian culture, never been there, never had much need to learn it, but, from what little I do know or have read about, that was what I was basing my guess on as to the reasons behind my observations"
In other words you are talking out of your butt, which by legal terms is called SLANDER!
It's funny that people don't realize this. Look at the market value of the companies you named. Look at their revenues. And then look at the market cap of Red Hat and Novell. Pitiful... Shows you that closed source is actually more profitable...
The problem here is not the dialog box. The problem here is Windows security! Windows security with its ACL's is bone headed complicated and it requires administrative rights more times than not.
.NET. When I need to debug I need to run the Excel spreadsheet AND process to debug in administrative roles... WTF?
I use Linux and while there are times a dialog box pops up, it is not needed as often.
Here is an example of boneheadedness. I write Excel applications that tie together with
The problem relates to how COM grants you rights to do certain things as a user. And when you are debugging you need more rights... WTF? Under Linux it would not matter because both are running in the context of the user and hence it can be debugged.
Why these problems on Windows? ACL's....
Actually you are wrong here. Microsoft does not need to pay more. Wait until Microsoft pulls out. You will hear that great big hissing noise calling Yahoo collapsing... And the worst part is that there will be shorts from all of the wood work coming out.
This is s short opportunity where you could get an instant 50% return. That will make anybody salivate...
No I think you will see that shareholders will like MS value. This Legg Mason is crying sour grapes because he has more shares of Yahoo than Microsoft.
Seriously if you look at the shareholders you can see that those in favor have more Microsoft shares, and those not in favor have more Yahoo shares.
The share price Microsoft is offering is fair from a PE valuation perspective. Do the math and you will see when Yahoo had better earnings it matched the peak share value. The problem that Yahoo has is that it SUCKS AS A COMPANY from a revenue perspective.
Yang has his head up his a** and he is so darn proud that "oh no this company cannot get taken over by Microsoft."
Personally I would be, "ok you want to pay me a few billion? Hey sure and then I will start a new company again."
The would probably win a proxy fight because those investors who have shares in Yahoo have more shares in MSFT. Thus for them it would be beneficial for MSFT to win.
If MSFT does not win then this latest move by Yahoo to work with Google is pure boneheadedness. If Yahoo does not get taken over watch their share price collapse... And not just a little collapse, but whole honken collapse.
What drugs are you smoking? Yes MS has invested quite a bit in XBox. But in 2007 XBox was profitable!
You bring up an important point here. A lie is only a lie if you believe it is a lie. If you believe the lie is the truth then all of the lie detectors in the world ain't gonna get you one step closer.
What bothers me in all of this is that you are going to catch the idiots who can't lie. The ones who are sophisticated enough to get through are the ones that we need to worry about, and they will not be caught.
The more I see technology being applied the more worried I get that people will not understand what is the truth or reality. Look at the past few slashdot articles where people seem to have figured out how to predict the future...
The issue here is not that China was given the Olympics. But the issue here is that China is squandering their opportunity to show that they have come along...
No, instead what we see is a totalitarian state that pretends to be capitalistic... Yeah whatever... Though they never fooled me once, hence why I refuse to invest in any Chinese corporation.
I don't think that you are wrong. It's just that there is this gray zone that Google is exploiting right now. And they will tend to err on the side of "let's push it more for our own benefit."
I think what Google really buggered up is the street sign that said private road. That they should have caught.
>Their "News service" is biased the same way - they'll run Hezbollah and Hamas "newspapers" but not western news organizations that catch those groups lying every day.
Sorry, but you are wrong here. I do critique Google, but I happen to like their news service. The reality with their news service is that they link EVERYBODY.
What I see in your posting is that you want to say is Google is anti-Bush and anti-conservative. Sorry, but you are reading too much into that.
One of the things that Google needs to change is the behavior, "we do first, and you can remove later."
It sort of reminds me of the idea, "hey I will walk along the neighborhood and attempt to open all doors and see which ones are unlocked. Of course if you tell me after the fact then I will not do it again later on."
So why does Google do this? Simple, its their entire business model. Think about. Imagine if Google had to get the OK from everybody before submitting pictures, web search, and book contents. That would absolutely kill their revenue.
Did you also read that the fund is down....
James Simons's $29 billion Renaissance Institutional Equities Fund has fallen 8.7 percent so far in August when his computer models used to buy and sell stocks were overwhelmed by securities' price swings. The two-year-old quantitative, or 'quant,' hedge fund now has declined 7.4 percent for the year. Simons said other hedge funds have been forced to sell positions, short-circuiting statistical models based on the relationships among securities."
BTW I use Quant methods as well, and I am as of last Friday up 5.4% on the year! With some stock picks being up a whopping 26%! (Apple was one my picks. I got in at 119)
The point is that quant methods ALWAYS break down. In fact if anything has been proven by this stock market whipping is that quants are just as much "idiots" as regular folks. And that is actually a good thing.
I read their paper
www2.isye.gatech.edu/people/faculty/Joel_Sokol/ncaa.pdf
And what bothers me are things like the following:
"For the LRMC model, we used all of the game data (home team, visiting team,
margin of victory) from the beginning of the season until just before the start of the
tournament; we obtained this data, as well as tournament results, on line from Yahoo!
daily scoreboards [24]. We note that neutral-site non-tournament games were unknown
in our data set; the team listed as âoehomeâ on the scoreboard was considered the home
team in our data"
What they did is dig through the past and see how it does in the future. I know from my own financial clients the problem is that you will always find winning systems. That's actually pretty easy. The problem is that can they actually predict. And most of the time the answer is NO.
And like the poster said, "if this works so well why are they not betting?" Betting and the stock market are two places where it makes more sense to use your "system" than to talk about your system. You can literally make millions using your system. Yet here they are writing a paper...
I know you are anonymous... But you know this is what bothers me. Yes you are being cynical or funny.
And the worst part is that I feel that I have to explain myself:
SerpentMage: Tracy Hickman, and Margret Weiss Death Gate Cycle series. One of my favorite book series and my favorite character was SerpentMage. A good read.
But getting back to the point, this is what goes through people's mind...