I've yet to see substantial backing as to his "great coder" skills. Paul Allen, yes I'd agree with. He started Microsoft with his parents money. He was sent to college on his parents dime (and IIRC, was not doing all that well academic wise).
Not only that, but I'm not sure about how his explanation makes him a "geek's geek". He was reciting common knowledge about address space. Also, in no way does his 640K statement have anything to do with his knowledge of addresses.
I still stick with my assessment that Bill Gates is a business man, not a geek. He knows about computers, but I wouldn't trust him to code his way out of a wet paper bag.
Yes - but if they didn't exist then it wouldn't be possible to pirate Blizzard games... And I don't see you claiming that Blizzard should try to sue intel for making it possible to pirate their games. The logic is sound, you just can't refute it.
Uh, no. Intel is f Blizzard games. Bnetd does. And if your parents didn't exist, I wouldn't have to listen to your dumbass illinformed arguments about why Intel makes copyright infringment possible. Better analogy: bnetd is a slimjim. Intel is a door. Big difference. You can use a slimjim for a bunch of legal purposes, and you can use it for illegal purposes. Intel is a frigging door.
No, it doesn't. It's not possible to play WC3 with bnetd. You need Warforge for that (Which is not bnetd. Sure.. you can't..
As for my first hand knowledge - You are absolutely right. I've been doing it to you all day. If only you had the dignity and humility to recognize not only are you wrong, but you are just being stupid arguing about it, you'd understand you have no point.
Here's the facts: You can connect to bnetd with war3beta. Blizzard send a C&D to bnetd authors. Blizzard is well within rights, and is not "stomping the little guy" or "attacking open source" -- they are protecting their IP. In a very civilized manner. They have not caused any damage to the bnetd authors (and trust me, they could).
No, it DOES matter - if PC's or the Internet didn't exist, then nobody would have "pirated" WC3 either - but I don't see you claiming that Blizzard would be within in their rights to shut down Intel, or every ISP in the world. Uh, could you start arguing logically? Just a thought.. it may help you get chicks too. Obviously if no computers were available then WC3 wouldn't exist. Plain and simple. Looking at the black and white example of what is in front of us: With BNETD you can play a hacked copy of War3 beta. Only with Bnetd does a hacked copy work. End of story. There is nothing more, go home.
No, THEY DON'T
As I posted before, bnetd does not allow anyone to do anything they couldn't do without it
Period. You have yet to provide anything that refutes this simple fact. Actually, yes I have.
Bnetd allows someone to play a pirated copy of (warcraft2|starcraft|warcraft3beta) over the internet without having a valid cd key.
That wasn't a simple fact, that was misinformed ignorance. The authors themselves even admit that bnetd is used for pirated copies of the game -- but that is not the motivation of bnetd, just an outcome. So, before you decide to go off about how bnetd is completely innocent understand that it is in fact being used as a tool to circumvent copy protection. It is the only tool, for that matter, for internet-based game play with pirated copies of blizzard games.
Keep arguing though, because you are just contradicting yourself more and displaying how ignorant you are in regards to this. Keep stating your "simple facts" too - they're fun to turn into stupidity.
Yes, and the same could be said for the Internet, or PC's in general... what's your point? Wrong. Just plain wrong. The war3beta is only playable via battle.net. If bnetd did not exist (or an equivalent project) it doesn't matter if computers or PC's existed - a central auth server would make hacked war3b copies useless.
Bnetd creators did NOTHING to violate any form of copyright or "intellectual property", and were harrassed because they have less money than Blizzard. Correct, however they do in fact have a tool that allows users to circumvent copyright protection. Argue it all you want, that's a black and white fact. Did Blizzard do the right thing? In my opinion no. Is Blizzard protecting their IP? You bet your ass they are. If you like Blizzard games, don't bitch about this -- because this is how blizzard is going to stay alive. Unfortunately it sucks, and probably doesn't carry much legal weight (as the memlaw article states) but they can't do much to fight it.
Blizzard sent a C&D letter. That is not pissing all over the bnetd authors. If you had a little bit of perspective you would understand that is like your neighbor asking you to keep it down on a wednesday night at 10pm.
A project that I will start on as soon as I move into aplace I'll be at for more than 6-12 months:
The potted switch/router project. I want to build a pot that will have a router and a switch in the base, with passage for water and such around it - then plant a nice (fake) dragon tree in it, and then place small spot lights at the bottom.
I've often found that you need a router at home in inconvenient places (as my current place has no phone jack in the "office" so it's sitting in the living room. Other projects include actual desks and functional pieces of furniture that contain hardware. A computer in every room is not enough - I want one in every desk/table/plant!
Uhh.. no. Capitalism believes in a free market, such as the right to it. It also ensures that everyone has the capacity to get rich. Antitrust laws are to protect everyones interests, not just consumers.
Allowing corporations to do whatever they want isn't capitalism or anything else, just stupidity. Do yourself a favor, and preview your comment as well man..
I know just person who would say that they're a "capitalist", and that person's a dick. The rest of us use the word "American."
Except for the large group of capitalists that aren't Americans. Good thing you realize there are other countries out there!
The *only* thing that money gets you in the legal system is better lawyers, who can raise precedents and theories that underpaid and overworked public defenders could never do. Wrong. Money gets you a lot more that. You claim you have been sued (indirectly, your wife) -- do you have any idea as to the costs outside of an attorney associated just to defend yourself?
On another side note, America is definitely not socialist. Stock market == Capitalism. Antitrust Laws == Capitalism (How's the little guy supposed to make money).
I'm sorry, but every single point you have attempted to raise was exceptionally flawed. I'm almost shocked.
This was for a P6-200Mhz. I loved that box like a child until it blew up. Micronics were great boards, even though they were large (excluding my fire incident) -- the VXi power card was just spiffy.
That is absolutely hilarious man. Any job openings for a UNIX coder (C preferably, but PHP/Perl will do) -- I would give my last pint to be able to have that on my business card. At least until I went to buy more.
Except for the fact that Taco has banned a lot of mod prilvedges (Including mine) for participating in the Troll thread that raised very valid points.
Well fuck me for trying to help Slashdot when it needs it. I've been at the karma cap for years. I have been reading slashdot before user ids. And this is the thanks I get.
Yeah, I'm really going to pay for a subscription. I stopped clicking on banner adverts as well, I like the site and the idea behind it -- but Taco attacked me for no good reason, so I say fuck him and his subscription model. However, I don't believe Taco is slashdot. That's why I'm still here.
Andrew Plotkin doesn't like criticism! Makes Andrew ANGRY.
BAD STEVE!
I was reminded of Being John Malkovitch, "Malkovitch Malkovitch Malkovitch" except "Bad Steve, Go Steve" -- who the hell is he talking about? Some guy that beat him senseless as a child?
I think the only thing that could have made this little "diary" more amusing and childish was if it was written in crayon.
I would be much more apt to pay for a subscription if Taco let go of his control. I took mild entertainment in the whole slashdot-conspiracy until I got my mod privledges revoked because I modded up an insightful comment insightful. Fuck that.
If they want my money, they can give me back my mod privledges. I won't use them, but there is no way in hell i'm going to pay for a site that does that to it's members. Moderation needs to be fixed first, then I'll pay. I already click on banner ads, probably 2x-3x more than most people do (At least once a day) so they're getting money from me that way.
Ok, so maybe an end table. I used to have an ATX mobo that was the bigger of the factors (Used the full perimeter of the mount plate) and damn that board was huge. Was a Micronix (I think.. been a few years) -- loved that board, then it caught on fire. (Literally)
Welcome to Slashdot. Your UID is low enough you should remember the hoax post that CmdrTaco posted. There wasn't even a real news article through the link but Taco just posted it up anyway (I think it was taco.. not sure)
Please find me saying that bnetds purpose was to circumvent copyright protections.
You are a troll, bad at it, and really should follow your own advice on reading peoples posts. I'm not ignorant, I'm informed. Sad you didn't see the difference. You guys are just pissed because I'm saying their is a logical reason for Blizzard's actions -- while not condoning them.
It could be a coffee table. That is part of it's coolness in my opinion. It's a massive beast, but it looks cool.
A friend of mine is working with me one what would make a case "really cool and effective" -- lots of ideas can be taken from this. While it's size is a deterrent for most people, it's a good setup and base design.
First, I agree - it is not the best way to be done. The damage is already done, the code wont go away. It's stupid to think it will. Who are you going to sue on a distributed development project? The leaders? What if they don't write any code just approve what goes in.
Unfortunately, I think that lawyers should actually understand the scenarios they try to litigate matters in. This is rarely the case and hence, we have poor souls like Dmitry Sklyarov.
Compared to what Blizzard could have done, sending a C&D letter that is mostly ineffectual if they chose to fight is mild. Try being sued, it's not fun. I'm in a lawsuit right now, because the company is just plain stupid.
I'm surprised I haven't heard rumors that this is just a delay tactic to get bnetd harder to get while the war3 beta is in place. It makes sense to me that's the case.. especially because it's working and blizzard employs some very smart people.
Did I say they were right? No. Did I say the C&D letter held water? No. Did I say I can understand where they are coming from, and the bottom line is they are trying to stop piracy? Yep.
How is that BS?
Thank you for at least admitting you were wrong on the first article.
Those cases are modified. This is a brand new never-before-seen-completely-from-scratch assembly. Also, are you on crack? This case was awesome. It brought a tear to my eye and turned me green with envy. I think I would kill that guy to get one if he weren't living so far away (or just buy one from him)
Here's how it breaks down: bnetd allows you to play online without cd-key auth. war3b only allows online play through bnets servers. war3b gets cracked, (I have not verified this, just heard the rumors going around) and you can in fact play it on bnetd. I do not know this first hand.
However if it hasn't been done yet, it will be very soon now that war3b is on the file sharing services.
Blizzard does need to protect it's IP. They run battle.net for *FREE* -- and it works most the time, and if you get a group of friends you play with, you can have a great experience. bnetd you still need friends to play with, otherwise your server is dead. They make the money of selling their games to keep bnet up and running. I have no objections to them doing things to try to protect their IP.
*shrug* since bnetd is open source, it's too easy for anyone to remove any cd-auth schemes.. so it's a rock and a hard place.
Warcraft III will have single player mode. Look at the faq [blizzard.com]. Now it's possible (I don't have the beta) that single player mode was crippled to only test online play -- do you have the beta?
The betas purpose is purely for testing the playability and is only available for online play. I do not have the beta, but have friends who do. It is only multiplayer.
Just because something can be used to aid unauthorized copying doesn't mean it's illegal. You said I was wrong. That's bullshit, because your first paragraph totally obliterated any and all hope for you to change your stance and be right. The whole and entire reason (according to blizzard) that bnetd is being shutdown is because they do not have the CD-auth mechanism in place. This is happening because the war3b crack allowing you to play it on bnetd servers. The cd-auth mechanism would have to be opened up or a published API for bnetd servers to talk and even so, it's an open source application so people can remove that code and still play the game.
Besides, go read my original post and you will see that I really didn't bring up any other issues, other than that war3b crack is only playable on bnetd, not on valid bnet servers. And as a seperate argument I posted that Blizzard did not "piss all over" the bnetd authors as the parent to my post submitted.
Because you did not know that the single player mode was crippled in war3b shows that you don't understand what the originating issue about the war3b crack was. So, don't call me wrong when you are still misinformed.
Are you a fucking idiot? The war3b only includes online play. You can only play it online.
That is what this whole thing is about. Why don't you learn about the issue at hand before spouting your irrelevent and misinformed two cents.. oh right, this is slashdot. Nevermind, continue to be an idiot.
Slashdot Mirror
I've yet to see substantial backing as to his "great coder" skills. Paul Allen, yes I'd agree with. He started Microsoft with his parents money. He was sent to college on his parents dime (and IIRC, was not doing all that well academic wise).
Not only that, but I'm not sure about how his explanation makes him a "geek's geek". He was reciting common knowledge about address space. Also, in no way does his 640K statement have anything to do with his knowledge of addresses.
I still stick with my assessment that Bill Gates is a business man, not a geek. He knows about computers, but I wouldn't trust him to code his way out of a wet paper bag.
Yes - but if they didn't exist then it wouldn't be possible to pirate Blizzard games... And I don't see you claiming that Blizzard should try to sue intel for making it possible to pirate their games. The logic is sound, you just can't refute it.
Uh, no. Intel is f Blizzard games. Bnetd does. And if your parents didn't exist, I wouldn't have to listen to your dumbass illinformed arguments about why Intel makes copyright infringment possible. Better analogy: bnetd is a slimjim. Intel is a door. Big difference. You can use a slimjim for a bunch of legal purposes, and you can use it for illegal purposes. Intel is a frigging door.
No, it doesn't. It's not possible to play WC3 with bnetd. You need Warforge for that (Which is not bnetd.
Sure.. you can't..
As for my first hand knowledge - You are absolutely right. I've been doing it to you all day. If only you had the dignity and humility to recognize not only are you wrong, but you are just being stupid arguing about it, you'd understand you have no point.
Here's the facts:
You can connect to bnetd with war3beta.
Blizzard send a C&D to bnetd authors.
Blizzard is well within rights, and is not "stomping the little guy" or "attacking open source" -- they are protecting their IP. In a very civilized manner. They have not caused any damage to the bnetd authors (and trust me, they could).
No, it DOES matter - if PC's or the Internet didn't exist, then nobody would have "pirated" WC3 either - but I don't see you claiming that Blizzard would be within in their rights to shut down Intel, or every ISP in the world.
Uh, could you start arguing logically? Just a thought.. it may help you get chicks too. Obviously if no computers were available then WC3 wouldn't exist. Plain and simple. Looking at the black and white example of what is in front of us: With BNETD you can play a hacked copy of War3 beta. Only with Bnetd does a hacked copy work. End of story. There is nothing more, go home.
No, THEY DON'T
As I posted before, bnetd does not allow anyone to do anything they couldn't do without it
Period. You have yet to provide anything that refutes this simple fact.
Actually, yes I have.
Bnetd allows someone to play a pirated copy of (warcraft2|starcraft|warcraft3beta) over the internet without having a valid cd key.
That wasn't a simple fact, that was misinformed ignorance. The authors themselves even admit that bnetd is used for pirated copies of the game -- but that is not the motivation of bnetd, just an outcome. So, before you decide to go off about how bnetd is completely innocent understand that it is in fact being used as a tool to circumvent copy protection. It is the only tool, for that matter, for internet-based game play with pirated copies of blizzard games.
Keep arguing though, because you are just contradicting yourself more and displaying how ignorant you are in regards to this. Keep stating your "simple facts" too - they're fun to turn into stupidity.
Yes, and the same could be said for the Internet, or PC's in general... what's your point?
Wrong. Just plain wrong. The war3beta is only playable via battle.net. If bnetd did not exist (or an equivalent project) it doesn't matter if computers or PC's existed - a central auth server would make hacked war3b copies useless.
Bnetd creators did NOTHING to violate any form of copyright or "intellectual property", and were harrassed because they have less money than Blizzard.
Correct, however they do in fact have a tool that allows users to circumvent copyright protection. Argue it all you want, that's a black and white fact. Did Blizzard do the right thing? In my opinion no. Is Blizzard protecting their IP? You bet your ass they are. If you like Blizzard games, don't bitch about this -- because this is how blizzard is going to stay alive. Unfortunately it sucks, and probably doesn't carry much legal weight (as the memlaw article states) but they can't do much to fight it.
Blizzard sent a C&D letter. That is not pissing all over the bnetd authors. If you had a little bit of perspective you would understand that is like your neighbor asking you to keep it down on a wednesday night at 10pm.
A project that I will start on as soon as I move into aplace I'll be at for more than 6-12 months:
The potted switch/router project.
I want to build a pot that will have a router and a switch in the base, with passage for water and such around it - then plant a nice (fake) dragon tree in it, and then place small spot lights at the bottom.
I've often found that you need a router at home in inconvenient places (as my current place has no phone jack in the "office" so it's sitting in the living room. Other projects include actual desks and functional pieces of furniture that contain hardware. A computer in every room is not enough - I want one in every desk/table/plant!
Uhh.. no. Capitalism believes in a free market, such as the right to it. It also ensures that everyone has the capacity to get rich. Antitrust laws are to protect everyones interests, not just consumers.
Allowing corporations to do whatever they want isn't capitalism or anything else, just stupidity. Do yourself a favor, and preview your comment as well man..
I know just person who would say that they're a "capitalist", and that person's a dick. The rest of us use the word "American."
Except for the large group of capitalists that aren't Americans. Good thing you realize there are other countries out there!
The *only* thing that money gets you in the legal system is better lawyers, who can raise precedents and theories that underpaid and overworked public defenders could never do.
Wrong. Money gets you a lot more that. You claim you have been sued (indirectly, your wife) -- do you have any idea as to the costs outside of an attorney associated just to defend yourself?
On another side note, America is definitely not socialist. Stock market == Capitalism. Antitrust Laws == Capitalism (How's the little guy supposed to make money).
I'm sorry, but every single point you have attempted to raise was exceptionally flawed. I'm almost shocked.
This was for a P6-200Mhz. I loved that box like a child until it blew up. Micronics were great boards, even though they were large (excluding my fire incident) -- the VXi power card was just spiffy.
That is absolutely hilarious man. Any job openings for a UNIX coder (C preferably, but PHP/Perl will do) -- I would give my last pint to be able to have that on my business card. At least until I went to buy more.
Except for the fact that Taco has banned a lot of mod prilvedges (Including mine) for participating in the Troll thread that raised very valid points.
Well fuck me for trying to help Slashdot when it needs it. I've been at the karma cap for years. I have been reading slashdot before user ids. And this is the thanks I get.
Yeah, I'm really going to pay for a subscription. I stopped clicking on banner adverts as well, I like the site and the idea behind it -- but Taco attacked me for no good reason, so I say fuck him and his subscription model. However, I don't believe Taco is slashdot. That's why I'm still here.
Of course, I'm also a guiness drinker.
Just to nitpick, drink more before you call yourself a guinness drinker so you can spell it right.
Another great expression:
Ni neart go Guinness!
(Guinness for Strength!)
Andrew Plotkin doesn't like criticism! Makes Andrew ANGRY.
BAD STEVE!
I was reminded of Being John Malkovitch, "Malkovitch Malkovitch Malkovitch" except "Bad Steve, Go Steve" -- who the hell is he talking about? Some guy that beat him senseless as a child?
I think the only thing that could have made this little "diary" more amusing and childish was if it was written in crayon.
I would be much more apt to pay for a subscription if Taco let go of his control. I took mild entertainment in the whole slashdot-conspiracy until I got my mod privledges revoked because I modded up an insightful comment insightful. Fuck that.
If they want my money, they can give me back my mod privledges. I won't use them, but there is no way in hell i'm going to pay for a site that does that to it's members. Moderation needs to be fixed first, then I'll pay. I already click on banner ads, probably 2x-3x more than most people do (At least once a day) so they're getting money from me that way.
Ok, so maybe an end table. I used to have an ATX mobo that was the bigger of the factors (Used the full perimeter of the mount plate) and damn that board was huge. Was a Micronix (I think.. been a few years) -- loved that board, then it caught on fire. (Literally)
Welcome to Slashdot. Your UID is low enough you should remember the hoax post that CmdrTaco posted. There wasn't even a real news article through the link but Taco just posted it up anyway (I think it was taco.. not sure)
I got a great laugh about that one.
The authors or the users?
Uh, no. Sorry sir, but you are a hypocrite.
Please find out where I said bnetd was illegal.
Please find me saying that bnetds purpose was to circumvent copyright protections.
You are a troll, bad at it, and really should follow your own advice on reading peoples posts. I'm not ignorant, I'm informed. Sad you didn't see the difference. You guys are just pissed because I'm saying their is a logical reason for Blizzard's actions -- while not condoning them.
It could be a coffee table. That is part of it's coolness in my opinion. It's a massive beast, but it looks cool.
A friend of mine is working with me one what would make a case "really cool and effective" -- lots of ideas can be taken from this. While it's size is a deterrent for most people, it's a good setup and base design.
First, I agree - it is not the best way to be done. The damage is already done, the code wont go away. It's stupid to think it will. Who are you going to sue on a distributed development project? The leaders? What if they don't write any code just approve what goes in.
Unfortunately, I think that lawyers should actually understand the scenarios they try to litigate matters in. This is rarely the case and hence, we have poor souls like Dmitry Sklyarov.
Compared to what Blizzard could have done, sending a C&D letter that is mostly ineffectual if they chose to fight is mild. Try being sued, it's not fun. I'm in a lawsuit right now, because the company is just plain stupid.
I'm surprised I haven't heard rumors that this is just a delay tactic to get bnetd harder to get while the war3 beta is in place. It makes sense to me that's the case.. especially because it's working and blizzard employs some very smart people.
Did I say they were right? No. Did I say the C&D letter held water? No. Did I say I can understand where they are coming from, and the bottom line is they are trying to stop piracy? Yep.
How is that BS?
Thank you for at least admitting you were wrong on the first article.
Those cases are modified. This is a brand new never-before-seen-completely-from-scratch assembly. Also, are you on crack? This case was awesome. It brought a tear to my eye and turned me green with envy. I think I would kill that guy to get one if he weren't living so far away (or just buy one from him)
Here's how it breaks down:
bnetd allows you to play online without cd-key auth.
war3b only allows online play through bnets servers.
war3b gets cracked, (I have not verified this, just heard the rumors going around) and you can in fact play it on bnetd. I do not know this first hand.
However if it hasn't been done yet, it will be very soon now that war3b is on the file sharing services.
Blizzard does need to protect it's IP. They run battle.net for *FREE* -- and it works most the time, and if you get a group of friends you play with, you can have a great experience. bnetd you still need friends to play with, otherwise your server is dead. They make the money of selling their games to keep bnet up and running. I have no objections to them doing things to try to protect their IP.
*shrug* since bnetd is open source, it's too easy for anyone to remove any cd-auth schemes.. so it's a rock and a hard place.
Warcraft III will have single player mode. Look at the faq [blizzard.com]. Now it's possible (I don't have the beta) that single player mode was crippled to only test online play -- do you have the beta?
The betas purpose is purely for testing the playability and is only available for online play. I do not have the beta, but have friends who do. It is only multiplayer.
Just because something can be used to aid unauthorized copying doesn't mean it's illegal.
You said I was wrong. That's bullshit, because your first paragraph totally obliterated any and all hope for you to change your stance and be right. The whole and entire reason (according to blizzard) that bnetd is being shutdown is because they do not have the CD-auth mechanism in place. This is happening because the war3b crack allowing you to play it on bnetd servers. The cd-auth mechanism would have to be opened up or a published API for bnetd servers to talk and even so, it's an open source application so people can remove that code and still play the game.
Besides, go read my original post and you will see that I really didn't bring up any other issues, other than that war3b crack is only playable on bnetd, not on valid bnet servers. And as a seperate argument I posted that Blizzard did not "piss all over" the bnetd authors as the parent to my post submitted.
Because you did not know that the single player mode was crippled in war3b shows that you don't understand what the originating issue about the war3b crack was. So, don't call me wrong when you are still misinformed.
Are you a fucking idiot? The war3b only includes online play. You can only play it online.
That is what this whole thing is about. Why don't you learn about the issue at hand before spouting your irrelevent and misinformed two cents.. oh right, this is slashdot. Nevermind, continue to be an idiot.