They already deprecated Win16 in 64 bit windows. There is no compatibility layer, short of running an entire VM capable of running Win16. Win32 will be deprecated in the name of security and trimming fat for embedded devices. WinRT already can't run existing Win32 apps, full-fat Windows will follow in due course.
Depends if the apps are there. There's also a big barrier to entry with figuring out which app to use on Linux for a given task because: A) there's no graphical, central software catalog with independent reviews, etc. And B) the naming of many apps is retarded (though this is getting better). I mean, nautilus - what the fuck is that supposed to mean? Kreiger? GIMP?
In some areas (e.g., audio, video) the tools are so far behind it's a joke. Ableton Live replacement? None. MS Access? Last time I tried BASE (2 weeks ago) it crashed when i tried to create a single table database with the single table containing only an ID primary key and a name field.
If you just want to browse the net, listen to mp3s, etc - Linux is fine. If you're a network nerd, it is fine. But most people aren't.
No, he's just old enough and been in the industry dealing with it for a living long enough to see the "other side" and the kids running Linux on their custom box they spend 50% of their spare time tweaking don't see and can't yet understand.
Call it being jaded, but I'm the same. I used to be a Linux (and later, FreeBSD) cheerleader (if you're really keen, dig up my posting history from the late 90s and early 2000s). I ran Linux on the desktop between 1995 and 2006 and eventually I got older, got more responsibilities in my life, less free time, and gave up. It is too much like WORK (I'm a unix/vSphere/network admin for a living), and when I come home after work, I don't want to have to deal with it.
I've relegated Linux and FreeBSD to what they do best - storage boxes, firewalls other internet facing services. Running Linux on the desktop is currently (and likely to forever be, due to the lack of hardware vendor/driver co-operation, and willingness to break shit from release to release) very much a case of square peg in round hole.
You can do it, but it is currently more effort than its worth.
I did it when i was 6 as well and continued to do so for every PC i've built. I'm now 35.
I didn't say it was hard, but it does take time and you end up with a cluttered mess of cables everywhere. Its also shit you don't HAVE to do. Why should i have to uninstall shitware? Why should i put up with a rats nest of cables everywhere?
That is the point. Some people care about those things. Now I'm an adult, work full time and live in my own house, my time is limited, I want to keep things tiday and its just easier to not have to deal with that shit. Sure, I can do it, and deal with it in my day job, but when i come home i don't want to have to concern myself with it. My disposable income is such that I'll gladly pay a little more to not have to.
The above test - which resulting in base crashing and losing my single table, single primary key with a name field database - was perfomed 2 weeks ago using debian stable by the way. Not years agp. This month...
Yes, i tracked debian both stable and unstable for several years (like, 1996 through 2006). Shit still breaks, and applications get deprecated between desktop environment releases.
Plugging in speakers, mic,power for speakers, power for both the pc and monitor, running through the first run wizard (product key, automated but time consuming hardware detect), getting rid of the shitware pre-installed from the OEM.
There is a lot more cables, and the windows first boot and registration takes time.
The thing is, when apple take the ideas and recycle them, they actually think about how people are going to use the device in the real world, and make it actually work.
And despite only being 7.9 inches diagonally, the ipad mini has about 30% more screen area than a 7 inch tablet....
The point is that the whole "feature" of the surface is the kickstand (which incidentally makes it crap to try and use as a laptop, on your lap) and keyboard - which makes the screen vertical.
I agree with Tim, because microsoft have tried to cover all bases, they've missed the point. This sort of device is not a laptop or desktop replacement. For the usage pattern, you don't need a keyboard - if you want to type and do data entry, you use a real machine.
All they've produced is a tablet with a crappy screen (way lower than the ipad's screen res) and a crappy keyboard that isn't usable as a laptop on your lap anyway due to the way the keyboard attaches (there's no folding resistance) and no stability for the screen on your lap.
It, like most microsoft products has been designed entirely by committee with no actual thought as to how people are going to make use of it in the real world.
If microsoft release a table based surface machine, then maybe I'll be interested. I know they have them in development, and the UI they've designed will probably work fine for that. But this? Garbage.
As per hairyfeet's posts - have you actually tried to upgrade both Windows and Linux boxes in the past decade? Or macs?
I've done plenty of dist upgrades in my day (since 1996) and breakage is common. Windows is marginally better, and OS X is a case of pop in DVD and wait, everything just works.
You forgot to also add - many of the applications the user got used to in the 2006 vintage Linux will have been deprecated or replaced with new, totally different software with new and unfamiliar bugs. It appears that as soon as a lot of Gnome or KDE software actually gets stable, the developer gives up and goes off to do something else, leaving some other person to re-write a new app for the next revision of KDE or Gnome.
I went through that cycle repeatedly on Linux between 1996 and 2006, and every now and again i'll give a new distribution a test to see how it fares.
Most recently Debian stable. "Oh, look i'll try out Base, and try to create a database." Create table with a single primary key and a text field called 'name'. Save table. App crashes, table is lost.
Yes, base is not the linux kernel. But it is supposedly release software, included in debian stable. And it is junk...
Difference is, I've been doing this shit for 15 years now and have a UID low enough to indicate as such, whilst you're some random anonymous guy on the internet.
I wasn't saying its a reason to ditch network transparency. I'm implying that the network transparency in X11 sucks so bad it is worth throwing away, and re-implementing in a better way with a module/daemon/etc that can be upgraded/replaced without affecting the core, local machine rendering pipeline.
Seriously, try X11 and RDP back to back over a 64bit pipe and get back to me.
VNC is better on a WAN but X11 often performs really well on a LAN, especially when network load is low.
Which is another way of saying "X11 bandwidth consumption is a joke". As someone who is regularly doing remote server admin via RDP over 256kbit or smaller links, attempting to use X11 in that sort of environment would be impossible. Both RDP and ICA can do this, and they both work just fine over fat LAN pipes as well.
With less flickering and screen update glitches than X11 to boot.
or powershell. but yes, the metro UI is a disaster. i'm sure the average 3 year old isn't trying to use it to get work done in a multitasking environment.
I *can* figure the metro UI out. I've used it. It is still crap though.
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They already deprecated Win16 in 64 bit windows. There is no compatibility layer, short of running an entire VM capable of running Win16. Win32 will be deprecated in the name of security and trimming fat for embedded devices. WinRT already can't run existing Win32 apps, full-fat Windows will follow in due course.
Depends if the apps are there. There's also a big barrier to entry with figuring out which app to use on Linux for a given task because: A) there's no graphical, central software catalog with independent reviews, etc. And B) the naming of many apps is retarded (though this is getting better). I mean, nautilus - what the fuck is that supposed to mean? Kreiger? GIMP?
In some areas (e.g., audio, video) the tools are so far behind it's a joke. Ableton Live replacement? None. MS Access? Last time I tried BASE (2 weeks ago) it crashed when i tried to create a single table database with the single table containing only an ID primary key and a name field.
If you just want to browse the net, listen to mp3s, etc - Linux is fine. If you're a network nerd, it is fine. But most people aren't.
No, he's just old enough and been in the industry dealing with it for a living long enough to see the "other side" and the kids running Linux on their custom box they spend 50% of their spare time tweaking don't see and can't yet understand.
Call it being jaded, but I'm the same. I used to be a Linux (and later, FreeBSD) cheerleader (if you're really keen, dig up my posting history from the late 90s and early 2000s). I ran Linux on the desktop between 1995 and 2006 and eventually I got older, got more responsibilities in my life, less free time, and gave up. It is too much like WORK (I'm a unix/vSphere/network admin for a living), and when I come home after work, I don't want to have to deal with it.
I've relegated Linux and FreeBSD to what they do best - storage boxes, firewalls other internet facing services. Running Linux on the desktop is currently (and likely to forever be, due to the lack of hardware vendor/driver co-operation, and willingness to break shit from release to release) very much a case of square peg in round hole.
You can do it, but it is currently more effort than its worth.
So much this. The GPL zealots who are claiming to defend the platform are actually doing their best to make it irrelevant.
I did it when i was 6 as well and continued to do so for every PC i've built. I'm now 35.
I didn't say it was hard, but it does take time and you end up with a cluttered mess of cables everywhere. Its also shit you don't HAVE to do. Why should i have to uninstall shitware? Why should i put up with a rats nest of cables everywhere?
That is the point. Some people care about those things. Now I'm an adult, work full time and live in my own house, my time is limited, I want to keep things tiday and its just easier to not have to deal with that shit. Sure, I can do it, and deal with it in my day job, but when i come home i don't want to have to concern myself with it. My disposable income is such that I'll gladly pay a little more to not have to.
The above test - which resulting in base crashing and losing my single table, single primary key with a name field database - was perfomed 2 weeks ago using debian stable by the way. Not years agp. This month...
Yes, i tracked debian both stable and unstable for several years (like, 1996 through 2006). Shit still breaks, and applications get deprecated between desktop environment releases.
Plugging in speakers, mic,power for speakers, power for both the pc and monitor, running through the first run wizard (product key, automated but time consuming hardware detect), getting rid of the shitware pre-installed from the OEM.
There is a lot more cables, and the windows first boot and registration takes time.
The thing is, when apple take the ideas and recycle them, they actually think about how people are going to use the device in the real world, and make it actually work.
And despite only being 7.9 inches diagonally, the ipad mini has about 30% more screen area than a 7 inch tablet....
The point is that the whole "feature" of the surface is the kickstand (which incidentally makes it crap to try and use as a laptop, on your lap) and keyboard - which makes the screen vertical.
I agree with Tim, because microsoft have tried to cover all bases, they've missed the point. This sort of device is not a laptop or desktop replacement. For the usage pattern, you don't need a keyboard - if you want to type and do data entry, you use a real machine.
All they've produced is a tablet with a crappy screen (way lower than the ipad's screen res) and a crappy keyboard that isn't usable as a laptop on your lap anyway due to the way the keyboard attaches (there's no folding resistance) and no stability for the screen on your lap.
It, like most microsoft products has been designed entirely by committee with no actual thought as to how people are going to make use of it in the real world.
If microsoft release a table based surface machine, then maybe I'll be interested. I know they have them in development, and the UI they've designed will probably work fine for that. But this? Garbage.
As per hairyfeet's posts - have you actually tried to upgrade both Windows and Linux boxes in the past decade? Or macs?
I've done plenty of dist upgrades in my day (since 1996) and breakage is common. Windows is marginally better, and OS X is a case of pop in DVD and wait, everything just works.
You forgot to also add - many of the applications the user got used to in the 2006 vintage Linux will have been deprecated or replaced with new, totally different software with new and unfamiliar bugs. It appears that as soon as a lot of Gnome or KDE software actually gets stable, the developer gives up and goes off to do something else, leaving some other person to re-write a new app for the next revision of KDE or Gnome.
I went through that cycle repeatedly on Linux between 1996 and 2006, and every now and again i'll give a new distribution a test to see how it fares.
Most recently Debian stable. "Oh, look i'll try out Base, and try to create a database." Create table with a single primary key and a text field called 'name'. Save table. App crashes, table is lost.
Yes, base is not the linux kernel. But it is supposedly release software, included in debian stable. And it is junk...
err... reply to wrong thread. oops.
Has always worked through school.
Difference is, I've been doing this shit for 15 years now and have a UID low enough to indicate as such, whilst you're some random anonymous guy on the internet.
Try doing that same workload with X11 and see how it compares.
You can run seamless RDP or ICA apps, and have been able to do so since at least Windows 2000 and Metaframe of the day.
Is it so hard to add networking as a daemon to Wayland, for people who need it? Answer: No it is not.
Try doing it over a WAN to a remote third world location where the biggest pipe you can get is 256kbit over satellite.
I wasn't saying its a reason to ditch network transparency. I'm implying that the network transparency in X11 sucks so bad it is worth throwing away, and re-implementing in a better way with a module/daemon/etc that can be upgraded/replaced without affecting the core, local machine rendering pipeline.
Seriously, try X11 and RDP back to back over a 64bit pipe and get back to me.
Which is another way of saying "X11 bandwidth consumption is a joke". As someone who is regularly doing remote server admin via RDP over 256kbit or smaller links, attempting to use X11 in that sort of environment would be impossible. Both RDP and ICA can do this, and they both work just fine over fat LAN pipes as well.
With less flickering and screen update glitches than X11 to boot.
Both RDP and ICA have been able to do this for at least 12 years now.
Vista came out 6 years ago, by the way.
or powershell. but yes, the metro UI is a disaster. i'm sure the average 3 year old isn't trying to use it to get work done in a multitasking environment.
I *can* figure the metro UI out. I've used it. It is still crap though.
I think you'll find there are far more people doing this via RDP, ICA or VNC, quite happily than there are via X11.