Examples, please. Asking out of curiousity. From what I see, just about every app has some kind of either binary or source compatibility with OS 9, necessitating the use of Carbon. The OS X-only apps I use are Cocoa. I am yet to run across the Carbon app that did not come for OS 9 or is without an OS 9 counterpart.
I don't think Carbon is going away next year or anything like that, but eventually, I believe it will. Someone will write a portversion tool and there are significant benefits to learning/using the Cocoa paradigm. Besides, the NeXT guys rule the future at Apple, and Cocoa is their baby. iSteve is probably playing them against the Mac guys just like he played the Mac guys against the Apple ][ guys back in the day. At a certain point, they'll assimilate the best of the best from the OS 9 side of the fence and toss the rest. I'm talking code *AND* people. Carbon will become a demonized stepchild just like the Newton. The writing is on the walls, one indicator of this is OS X's blatant defiance of Apple's own human interface guidelines. Apple's history and traditions are sacred no longer.
it's not as easy as it sounds. libtool is the primary issue...a different one is used under OS X. fink deals with it, but only on a handful of packages. and if you want to compile with different options than in the fink packages, you're on your own. some things compile straight away, ncftp, lynx, went just fine for me. other things like ImageMagick getting multiply defined symbols. postgresql needs the "posix" patch to compile. even apache i can only compile on my pb not my desktop, cuz i got a different toolset on the desktop, too lazy and i don't want to take the time away from my happy little mod_perl world to figure it out... i slugged it out to get what i needed built so i can use what i consider to be a decent editor under OS X and run apache/postgresql/other unix stuff. otherwise it's a real clusterfuck. too bad the macgimp et.al. assholes infringed GPL resulting in fink maintainer dude taking a hike... he was really on the right track.
1) you must be using Photoshop 7, the version released on Monday, that I am still waiting to have arrive at my door.
2) IE is Carbon, whether you can run on 9 or not it's Carbon.
3) Your opinion of "first class citizenship" will change when Cocoa versions of your favorite apps appear. If you are actually using Photoshop 7, I offer your post as proof of this hypothesis.
4) Apple's opinion of "first class citizenship" will change when significant numbers of apps ported to Cocoa. Carbon is a stepping stone that will be discarded once it has outlive its usefulness.
IE is not "free" for Apple. Sure, they probably don't pay a per-copy royalty, but let us not forget the $150M cash Billg gave to Apple, the stock purchased, and the undisclosed settlement of patent disputes (note: I hate software patents as much as any good/.er). This "deal with the devil", so to speak has helped Apple to succeed, to be sure, there is no way Billg gave up one cent unless he knew it would bring him back two or should I say two hundred.
With 320MB on the iBook, you're probably going to need the window buffer compression trick. With that amount of RAM, and stock config (no window buffer compression), you're system will be paging out with just one or two apps running. The trick about will free 80-100MB of RAM, and it will help.
thanks for sharing your thoughts/information. i was thinking a CF card in one of the type II slots and an ethernet card in the other, then run ethereal (or nmap, ping, etc) on it...perhaps the zaurus is better suited for this application, but it won't come close to impressing the chicks as much as a newton pocket datascope.
Don't let him get to you too much, and prepare for more of these immasculated Linux zealots getting pissy behind OS X's success. (note: I am not attacking all Linux zealots, only the immasculated ones =)
Oh yeah, for that immasculated AC: I got 3 Macs in my lab (one of the gumdrop variety), 4 Intels running Linux, an 18 year old callous on the side my right index finger from popping code in the front panel of my Altair 8800, and IMO, every program can and should be written in assembler, so thpthtphtpthtptpthtttt
I asked about which system you're speaking of because I am yet to find a PC notebook that implements the full ACPI spec. The best I've seen is systems that modify the CPU clock duty cycle, and while helpful, it doesn't improve battery life very much. The G4's implement full ACPI, summarized here, at least when it comes to CPU power.
Why newer macs are better than 6 years ago... Well, the soft power switch always works even if the CPU is totally crashed. Just hold it in for 5 seconds or so. I think there's a one-shot in discreet hooked to a solidstate relay. Just guessing. Commodity components, like SDRAM, IDE allows some upgrades "on the cheap". Gigabit ethernet built in. The beige boxes only had 10Mbps when 100Mbps was cost effective. Oh, and you don't need a crossover cable to hook one machine to the other...it swaps the pairs for you in hardware. You can put a system into "Target Disk Mode" by pressing T at bootup. Connect it to another computer with a firewire cable, and viola, disk appears on other system. Very useful for service, just root around the building with my TiBook and a cable. How about a monitor with only one cable? OS X is nice, although BSD isn't Linux. I still run all Linux outside the firewalls and its going to stay that way.
And 6 years ago, I mostly used floppies for booting up a dead system. Other than that, network or Zip.
I owned an original Macintosh. I've maintained farily decent sized networks (100+) of them, and used them secondarily for the past 6 years, and before that maintained smaller networks of them. And I totally agree with your opinion, when it comes to the older stuff. Mac OS 7.x was a total pain to network with, especially printing was unreliable. And running core OS against an emulator! WTF is that? 8.x shaped things up a bit. Then there is SCSI and "special" RAM in those old systems. Not knocking SCSI, just they used 8-bit and SCSI CDROMs are expensive and always seem to fail after the warranty expires.
Apple has changed a lot for the better. The cute image is to capture people's attention. There's a lot of thought in the design too. It's just not obvious until one uses the stuff. And I think their staying out of the commodity market is by design, because it enables them to continue innovation.
So, yes I am a somewhat new Apple fan, although a long time user and maintainer. I initially felt like it was an awful lot of money to spend on computers, although I now feel it is worth it. I spend a lot less time working on my computers and more time working with them.
Try using some current Apple products on a daily basis and then get back to me.
BTW six years ago, Apple was cranking out those Beige blocks of cheese that Sculley thought he was going to sell against PCs into Corporate America. And floppies...we don't need no stinking floppies.
Oh yeah, how about providing the make/model of your PC *notebook* with the CPU idling features...
A comparably equipped Gateway, of course with a 2Ghz P4, is a mere $300 less than the G4/933. Both with large flat panel displays, of course. Being a guy who has purchased a whole glut of commodity hardware, and built my lab of 7 Pentiums $200 at a time, I have to say I was never able to appreciate the value of a Mac until I bought one and started using it as my "daily driver". For example, said G4/933 has 2MB L3 cache running at 1/2 clock speed. More than enough to keep your average loop-calls-several-nested-subroutines close at hand, and scads more than the what 0K (of L3-cache =) stock on a P4. The SuperDrive extracts CD audio at about 11-16x, ripping a whole CD in 2-4 minutes. Power management that really works. Or, on my TiBook, I actually get about 4-5 hours battery life when writing/testing code. Why? because Apple developed a power management chip that keeps all system clocks running, but idles the CPU down when the system encounters idle time, then bounces back to full speed in a few milliseconds. That kind of developement will never happen in a commodity PC market. And my VAIO never passed the 3.5 hour mark with TWO batteries.
And all that "fancy" design is more than just good looks. I can reach under the middle of my 17" Studio Display, and plug a USB device into one of the ports on the back, without moving anything, and without having too see ugly USB outlets all the time. There are many other subtle benefits resulting from Apple's design efforts. Suffice it to say, one cannot truly appreciate them until actually using them.
I own and still use PCs, however I call myself a Mac user. This is always the thing with a PC, "my PC could do that IF...". With Macs, typically you just try something and it works. Not to say the Mac is free of all silly problems, it definitely has some of its own. A greater percentage of my time in front of my Macs is spent accomplishing the tasks I set out to do, instead of dealing with silly Windows (and sometimes silly Linux) problems, for example, figuring out which video software works, let alone which one works best. I can't knock Linux for its stability though, 102 days uptime each for 3 systems before the power failed.
>> Overloading is a construction of lazy programmers who did not completely plan out what variables will be passed. Laziness and poor programming lead to bad software.
Dude, he said overloading "operators". This means making the compiler call your function for operators like + - == etc. Not overloading function definitions. And in the case of overloading function definitions, why not? Constructors can be very handy when overloaded. And in other cases, the "sloppiness" you allude to is sometimes adapting the code to provide new functionality without tampering with what is in place and Q/A'd already. The old "it works don't fix it" principle. Solving this type of problem was one of the very motivations the prompted Bjarne Stroustrup to write the C++ pre-processor in the first place.
Are you sure you weren't inadvertantly telling it to re-use the cached modules? =) This was his point, sometimes things work a little differently than one might think. Anyway, I think I empathize with your pain. Many times, "It's not supposed to do that" has been the diagnosis, and typically after a long night of debugging. Thing is, it does do *THAT*. Solution is to tell it to do something else.
I dunno. The best way my old High School computer lab teacher taught me was simply by saying: "It's doing _exactly_ what you're telling it to do". Many many times I imagined strangling the guy for saying that...it really was the best thing he did for me.
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Great troll, dude. 5 pts. and everyone fell for it too.
Ummm I believe two-way communication with guided ordnance qualifies as a "connection to the outside world"
i wonder if anyone else lives on the west coast, like me, that just had their episode spoiled.
I don't think Carbon is going away next year or anything like that, but eventually, I believe it will. Someone will write a portversion tool and there are significant benefits to learning/using the Cocoa paradigm. Besides, the NeXT guys rule the future at Apple, and Cocoa is their baby. iSteve is probably playing them against the Mac guys just like he played the Mac guys against the Apple ][ guys back in the day. At a certain point, they'll assimilate the best of the best from the OS 9 side of the fence and toss the rest. I'm talking code *AND* people. Carbon will become a demonized stepchild just like the Newton. The writing is on the walls, one indicator of this is OS X's blatant defiance of Apple's own human interface guidelines. Apple's history and traditions are sacred no longer.
it's not as easy as it sounds. libtool is the primary issue...a different one is used under OS X. fink deals with it, but only on a handful of packages. and if you want to compile with different options than in the fink packages, you're on your own. some things compile straight away, ncftp, lynx, went just fine for me. other things like ImageMagick getting multiply defined symbols. postgresql needs the "posix" patch to compile. even apache i can only compile on my pb not my desktop, cuz i got a different toolset on the desktop, too lazy and i don't want to take the time away from my happy little mod_perl world to figure it out... i slugged it out to get what i needed built so i can use what i consider to be a decent editor under OS X and run apache/postgresql/other unix stuff. otherwise it's a real clusterfuck. too bad the macgimp et.al. assholes infringed GPL resulting in fink maintainer dude taking a hike... he was really on the right track.
Actually, they both look like graphics made by programmers. They need a real graphic artist to step up...
WRONG! intoduction of XP prompted my decision to switch and purchase 3 macs.
Chimera rocks, although I have to say you can't really replace your "other" browser with it just yet...
1) you must be using Photoshop 7, the version released on Monday, that I am still waiting to have arrive at my door.
2) IE is Carbon, whether you can run on 9 or not it's Carbon.
3) Your opinion of "first class citizenship" will change when Cocoa versions of your favorite apps appear. If you are actually using Photoshop 7, I offer your post as proof of this hypothesis.
4) Apple's opinion of "first class citizenship" will change when significant numbers of apps ported to Cocoa. Carbon is a stepping stone that will be discarded once it has outlive its usefulness.
IE is not "free" for Apple. Sure, they probably don't pay a per-copy royalty, but let us not forget the $150M cash Billg gave to Apple, the stock purchased, and the undisclosed settlement of patent disputes (note: I hate software patents as much as any good /.er). This "deal with the devil", so to speak has helped Apple to succeed, to be sure, there is no way Billg gave up one cent unless he knew it would bring him back two or should I say two hundred.
With 320MB on the iBook, you're probably going to need the window buffer compression trick. With that amount of RAM, and stock config (no window buffer compression), you're system will be paging out with just one or two apps running. The trick about will free 80-100MB of RAM, and it will help.
Now that's what I call government intelligence.
thanks for sharing your thoughts/information. i was thinking a CF card in one of the type II slots and an ethernet card in the other, then run ethereal (or nmap, ping, etc) on it...perhaps the zaurus is better suited for this application, but it won't come close to impressing the chicks as much as a newton pocket datascope.
n the beginning they actually discouraged game development on the Macintosh
They certainly miscalculated when they decided the best way to get kids to use their gear was by giving/discounting Macs for schools.
Is there a project porting Linux to the Newton? I googled for it a bit and didn't find anything... It just seems like a cool inexpensive platform.
Don't let him get to you too much, and prepare for more of these immasculated Linux zealots getting pissy behind OS X's success. (note: I am not attacking all Linux zealots, only the immasculated ones =)
Oh yeah, for that immasculated AC: I got 3 Macs in my lab (one of the gumdrop variety), 4 Intels running Linux, an 18 year old callous on the side my right index finger from popping code in the front panel of my Altair 8800, and IMO, every program can and should be written in assembler, so thpthtphtpthtptpthtttt
I asked about which system you're speaking of because I am yet to find a PC notebook that implements the full ACPI spec. The best I've seen is systems that modify the CPU clock duty cycle, and while helpful, it doesn't improve battery life very much. The G4's implement full ACPI, summarized here, at least when it comes to CPU power.
Why newer macs are better than 6 years ago... Well, the soft power switch always works even if the CPU is totally crashed. Just hold it in for 5 seconds or so. I think there's a one-shot in discreet hooked to a solidstate relay. Just guessing. Commodity components, like SDRAM, IDE allows some upgrades "on the cheap". Gigabit ethernet built in. The beige boxes only had 10Mbps when 100Mbps was cost effective. Oh, and you don't need a crossover cable to hook one machine to the other...it swaps the pairs for you in hardware. You can put a system into "Target Disk Mode" by pressing T at bootup. Connect it to another computer with a firewire cable, and viola, disk appears on other system. Very useful for service, just root around the building with my TiBook and a cable. How about a monitor with only one cable? OS X is nice, although BSD isn't Linux. I still run all Linux outside the firewalls and its going to stay that way.
And 6 years ago, I mostly used floppies for booting up a dead system. Other than that, network or Zip.
I owned an original Macintosh. I've maintained farily decent sized networks (100+) of them, and used them secondarily for the past 6 years, and before that maintained smaller networks of them. And I totally agree with your opinion, when it comes to the older stuff. Mac OS 7.x was a total pain to network with, especially printing was unreliable. And running core OS against an emulator! WTF is that? 8.x shaped things up a bit. Then there is SCSI and "special" RAM in those old systems. Not knocking SCSI, just they used 8-bit and SCSI CDROMs are expensive and always seem to fail after the warranty expires.
Apple has changed a lot for the better. The cute image is to capture people's attention. There's a lot of thought in the design too. It's just not obvious until one uses the stuff. And I think their staying out of the commodity market is by design, because it enables them to continue innovation.
So, yes I am a somewhat new Apple fan, although a long time user and maintainer. I initially felt like it was an awful lot of money to spend on computers, although I now feel it is worth it. I spend a lot less time working on my computers and more time working with them.
BTW six years ago, Apple was cranking out those Beige blocks of cheese that Sculley thought he was going to sell against PCs into Corporate America. And floppies...we don't need no stinking floppies.
Oh yeah, how about providing the make/model of your PC *notebook* with the CPU idling features...
And all that "fancy" design is more than just good looks. I can reach under the middle of my 17" Studio Display, and plug a USB device into one of the ports on the back, without moving anything, and without having too see ugly USB outlets all the time. There are many other subtle benefits resulting from Apple's design efforts. Suffice it to say, one cannot truly appreciate them until actually using them.
I own and still use PCs, however I call myself a Mac user. This is always the thing with a PC, "my PC could do that IF...". With Macs, typically you just try something and it works. Not to say the Mac is free of all silly problems, it definitely has some of its own. A greater percentage of my time in front of my Macs is spent accomplishing the tasks I set out to do, instead of dealing with silly Windows (and sometimes silly Linux) problems, for example, figuring out which video software works, let alone which one works best. I can't knock Linux for its stability though, 102 days uptime each for 3 systems before the power failed.
Looks like you can buy one if you go here and scroll down a bit.
>> Overloading is a construction of lazy programmers who did not completely plan out what variables will be passed. Laziness and poor programming lead to bad software.
Dude, he said overloading "operators". This means making the compiler call your function for operators like + - == etc. Not overloading function definitions. And in the case of overloading function definitions, why not? Constructors can be very handy when overloaded. And in other cases, the "sloppiness" you allude to is sometimes adapting the code to provide new functionality without tampering with what is in place and Q/A'd already. The old "it works don't fix it" principle. Solving this type of problem was one of the very motivations the prompted Bjarne Stroustrup to write the C++ pre-processor in the first place.
Are you sure you weren't inadvertantly telling it to re-use the cached modules? =) This was his point, sometimes things work a little differently than one might think. Anyway, I think I empathize with your pain. Many times, "It's not supposed to do that" has been the diagnosis, and typically after a long night of debugging. Thing is, it does do *THAT*. Solution is to tell it to do something else.
I dunno. The best way my old High School computer lab teacher taught me was simply by saying: "It's doing _exactly_ what you're telling it to do". Many many times I imagined strangling the guy for saying that...it really was the best thing he did for me.
I believe that is referred to as "Evil Inside" =)