Well, sorry, but so far all those are "in development", not really complete, not stable and most importantly completely unsupported by Microsoft.
Show me one organization that is using.NET on a non-Windows environment in production use. Just one.
Micrsoft is competing with PalmOS for the PDA Market, so it obviously won't relesese.Net for that environment. [..] However, what is stopping Palm from releasing the CLR for PalmOS?
You answered your own question. MS is competing with PalmOS and will therefore not release.NET for it but neither will PalmOS for the very same reason. That would be just digging their own grave. Also, there are no important.NET apps for PDAs anyway, so why not stick to Java? Why should anybody use.NET to write for 25-30% of PDAs when they can use Java and cover almost all existing PDAs and more importantly all PDAs that will be released in the future?
So far, Microsoft has failed miserably on everything that doesn't run on x86-desktops. I don't see how.NET should be an exception.
Let's take all the cellphones, PDAs, and webservers that run java... that's less than the number of windows xp boxes Dell sold in the last half a year. Now who's looking at a small market?
First of all, while there are surely more desktops than Java-capable devices, the figures are not as out of proportion as you suggest. There are millions of Java devices already out and soon almost all cellphones will run it which means BILLIONS of devices.
Secondly, for desktops, allmost all the software already exists and there isn't really that much to develop. So for a developer, Java sure as hell is the more interesting platform than.NET.
AFAIK the Orange model was only offered in Great Britain and no other country and isn't even offered anymore. (In your shop it is also listed as "out of stock" and that's not because it's selling so well, it has been reported being very buggy and unfriendly)
And it's just another failed try to release a Microsoft phone among many. The Taiwanese maker who was working with MS at first already dropped Stinger and so did T-mobile.
Never heard of the other one and your link leads to an error-page.
So while there may be some prototypes and a handful of people stuck with a buggy.NET phone, close to 100% of cellphones don't and never will run.NET because all major cellphone-makers have chosen Symbian and Java as the platform.
Also, the only company I know personally which did use IIS for something more complicated than static pages went belly-up 2 years ago...
If you look at some countries like Germany or Japan, IIS is already de-facto dead there. In those countries it's already quite hard to find a hoster that will even offer Windows, either you have to go to one of the few and very expensive hosters who offer Windows or you would have to do everything yourself.
In the USA, Microsoft's strategy to make their products as incompatible as possible might help them because there are enough MS-brainwashed people there, but everywhere else, their "designed for incompatibility" strategy is starting to hurt them a lot.
In many countries, a server equals Unix, so choosing.NET is just plain stupid because you won't find a good hoster for it. The same scenario is coming along with cellphones everywhere including the USA: Java runs,.NET doesn't. If you might ever want to do anything with cellphones,.NET isn't an option because Microsoft isn't even able to get a foot into that market.
If you choose.NET, you have significantly limited your possibilities and your flexibility. (Do you really know for sure that you won't do anything outside the MS-world in 10 years?)
With Java on the other hand, you have all your bases covered: Desktops, servers, browsers, PDAs, cellphones, embedded systems.
In the long run, Microsoft's refusal to cooperate with other technologies will hurt them also in the USA. In case you haven't noticed, the computing desktop isn't the hot thing anymore. A lot of new stuff comes out for cellphones, embedded devices and PDAs, which means no.NET, sorry.
Three years in and I believe it is fair to say that most people do not understand exactly what.Net is -- other than a vague "trust me" monolithic solution.
No matter what the MS-bootlickers say,.NET can be summed up easily:
.NET is like Java, only incompatible with everything other than Windows. The only added feature is language-neutrality (you can use more than just C# to code.NET objects) although that exists under Java, too, although to a lesser extent (There are many compilers that take many non-Java programming languages as imput and put out Java bytecode, however those are not very widely used and supported)
To sum up, there isn't a real reason to use.NET over Java. The Microsofties who have overrun Slashdot already will crucify me for doubting the invincibility of Microsoft, but Java is *the* standard programming language, and the only language that runs on every major and most minor platforms.
75% of webservers don't run Windows. 100% of cellphones don't run Windows. 60% of PDAs don't run Windows. Let's face it:.NET is just a desktop solution, nothing more.
Using.NET and artificially chaining yourself to one vendor and platform and shrinking your target market is a stupid idea.
Because you remain free to choose your platforms and get huge discounts from Ballmer if you threaten to leave Windows?
Microsoft-loyalists must really be the stupidest bunch of people on the planet. Everybody who is able to switch to Linux is getting huge discounts (see Munich) while the Microsoft bootlickers pay full price and still think it's a good deal.
Keep your freedom, it's worth it. (also financially in the long term)
Linux' open source nature makes it very different.
And let's face it: All MS did the last 20 years was defend their DOS/Windows dominaton. Network effects helped them greatly, OS/2 went away almost by itself (of course MS will always be MS so they also blackmailed German computer makers not to preinstall OS/2 - however OS/2 would have died anyway.), hardware makers fought the battle for them on servers. Microsoft had only to make sure x86 stays MS-only and hardware-maker would make the hardware cheap and fast enough to endanger Unix.
Linux changed all that.
On servers Linux is extremely successful and has already surpassed Windows in Europe, on embedded systems it is about to do the same. On the desktop we still have the big problem of weak software support, but unlike IBM or Microsoft the open source community has the power to create a complete desktop from scratch: KDE. It includes everything from browser to office suite and is certainly good enough for mainstream needs.
Sorry, I did not make that clear in my post: They never sued anybody for using Linux, they sued IBM for messing with their proprietary software.
What they have threatened is to reveal evidence that would be damaging to IBM and give them control of Linux. Anybody who has actually looked at the details of the situation knows this is just verbal flatulence, with overtones of commercial fraud.
Oh that's smart (NOT)... encourage the lunatic fringe to send the guy offensive emails so that the stories Microsoft told him about Linux users being a bunch of childish fools gains credibility.
Let's act like grown-ups here and realise that although the company's attitude may be somewhat lacking, they are within their legal right to do what they're doing whether others like it or not.
So essentually you say that this company has the right to be annoying and unfair, but Slashdot users don't?
Call them, mail them, annoy them. Like the Microsoft-bootlickers would say: "If it's legal, it's OK."
If you take a deep breath, take a step back and look at the facts:
IBM only got into trouble because they messed with proprietary software (SCO's).
Never was anybody successfully sued for using free software. So far nobody was even unsuccessfully sued, remember that SCO has so far only put out threats and not sued anyone. (And they won't.) In the commercial software world, suing and fining users is just normal business. Just look at how many companies are getting fined by the BSA every year.
When SCO has lost their case (and they will), a lot of people will see that the OSS licenses are indeed the only "no sue" and "no hassles" licenses.
I think Microsoft made a big mistake with the whole SCO thing. The more people are aware of licenses and the more people understand the GPL, the worse Microsoft looks in comparison.
The SCO case does hurt Linux in the short term, that's for sure. But in the long term, it will be just a confirmation of what many already know: That users of GPLed software are much safer from legal problems than users of commercial software.
With the millions of shares Microsoft executives sell constantly, maybe they don't care about the long term...
All else the same, why is "isn't from Microsoft" on that list?
Because Microsoft designs their software to be as incompatible to anybody else's as possible and often even to their own. Microsoft technologies only run on Microsoft software and Microsoft software with some rare exceptions only runs on Microsoft Windows which runs only on x86. (No, don't try to play the Itanium card) Unix software on the other hand runs on many different OSes from tens of different vendors on many hardware architectures.
Choosing Microsoft is the final decision, because after that there won't be any easy choices anymore.
Therefore, any non-Microsoft product is usually a lot safer investment because you are not completely dependent on the whims of a single organization.
Mod me down all you want, but you know it's true.
Re:Kiss and say goodbye to Java language!!
on
PHP 5 Beta 1
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· Score: 1
Hi!
I am a PHP programmer and have programmed some Java some years ago. I do PHP almost exclusively now, but I always liked Java and I am thinking that maybe JSPs may be worth a look.
So although I currently don't feel an urgent need to switch and will definitely have to maintain PHP code for the rest of my life (probably;-), I'd like to play a bit with JSP, especially because Java is so universal (runs on servers, browsers, desktops and embedded systems)
What tools do you use/recommend? (What servlet engine, just an editor or a RAD-tool?)
The way I see it, a servlet engine is more or less a JVM that puts the (standard?)output of a Java program to the webserver/browser, is that correct? (A short browse on the Apache Tomcat page could not answer that very simple question)
Actually that's a lot cheaper than anything comparable in the Windows-world (no, the support from your PC-maker is certainly NOT comparable. You have to pay per phonecall for Microsoft's support.)
For home users or businesses who don't need any support, SuSE 8.1(or a comparable distro) for 70$ for unlimited desktops will probably the better choice.
all SCO wants to do is jack the stock high enough, long enough for their CEO, VPs, etc to cash out nice and RICH, and leave a burning twisted pile of rubble at the end....
Finally somebody who understood the reasoning behind this all...
The good thing about all this will be that SCO will be so deep in dept that it will die and take it's damn Unix IP with it into the grave, no more Unix legalese crap.
Their lies and threats (the threatened SuSE, RedHat, Linus Torvalds, all Linux users, and others - without ever really suing anybody) have given their stock a big rise and by now the executives should have sold their stock.
No, you wouldn't pay $2000 to "surf the web and check email". If you wanted an Apple you'd spend $800 and get the entry-level eMac (which is what I just bought for my father-in-law). 17" CRT, CD-ROM, 128MB RAM, 800MHz G4 processor. Oh, and if you can get an educational discount it'll cost you even less!
I will never buy a CRT again, I will never buy a computer without PCI(or whatever will replace them) slots and I will never buy a computer with a non-detachable monitor.
And most people have a similiar opinion, sorry. Nobody wants to throw away the whole computer when they want to upgrade to a bigger screen and vice versa. Actually I am currently using my 7-year old PC as a household server-router, which would not be possible with an iMac or eMac (no second ethernet card possible and the useless monitor is just in the way) which illustrates the uselessness of such throwaway products.
Hey, Apple: Remove that useless CRT and put PCI slots and a VGA-port into it. The thing would cost less to manufacture and be worth more. And pease don't tell me what "the average user" wants. There have been tens of all-integrated models in the x86-world and none have been successful, simply because everybody wants the flexibility and upgradeability of a real computer.
While I think that the new G5s are really great computers and especially the dual-CPU system is not overpriced, Apple lacks a cheap product line.
Sorry, but I wont buy a computer for 2000$ if all I do is surf the web and check email. Sorry, but I wont use a 2000$ computer as a router in my household. Apple's G5 offerings are great, but only for a small segment of the market.
The sad fact is that a 300$ computer from Walmart can do most of computing tasks fast enough. I really think Apple needs a cheap product line *with* PCI slots.
Admittedly, this just proves that gcc sucks, but that's all you get from Apple. Nothing has changed, Intel is still winning and Apple is still lying about it.
Sorry, but I'd rather see a comparison using a compiler used in the real world (gcc) than some special compiler not used on much other than building benchmarks.
Also, 64 Bits gives you support for more RAM which means less disk use which means more performance.
Especially because you just might want to upgrade your RAM beyound 2GB within the next 4 years, right now a 64Bit system is a very good choice. Intel has dropped the ball, it will be an PPC970 vs. Opteron match IMO.
Why should Apple give you new versions of OS X for free?
Because it would make the Macintosh platform look more stable and a safer investment, it would make people upgrade faster which would kill off buggy earlier versions faster and would allow software developers to use the new features earlier, because (gasp) it would make customers happier?
Re:Apple + PPC970 = True!
on
Jaguar is Over
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· Score: 1
This is just going from "insanely overpriced" to "severely overpriced".
I really hope Apple gets their act together and offers a machine with PCI slots for less than 800$.
An offering like that would double Apple marketshare within less than a year.
There are a lot of people out there who like Macs (including me) but who will not pay over 1000$ for a machine, especially when you can't get a replacement motherboard or CPU at a fair price.
And that's the other gripe I have about Apple: If they want to offer high-quality machines, fine with me. But high-quality means availability of spare parts, which means that they will have to have motherboards and CPUs in the Apple store for a reasonable price. (I'm generous: I will accept a 20% premium compared to similar x86-parts. I won't accept 200% though.) But with the current situation, Macs are throwaway computers after the warranty expired and that's not high-quality in my book.
That said, I really would like to have a PPC970 computer, but not at that price and not at the risk of having to wait while the thing is being mailed to or from Apple when something breaks.
Wrong. Competition is great and leads to better results.
The main reason why Linux is behind in the desktop is missing reliable Win32 compatibility. Usability sure is not perfect but certainly on par with WinXP (WinXP is not perfect either.)
Everywhere, where Win32 compatibility is not needed (on servers, on embedded systems) Linux is very strong.
Slashdot Mirror
Well, sorry, but so far all those are "in development", not really complete, not stable and most importantly completely unsupported by Microsoft.
Show me one organization that is using .NET on a non-Windows environment in production use. Just one.
Micrsoft is competing with PalmOS for the PDA Market, so it obviously won't relesese .Net for that environment. [..] However, what is stopping Palm from releasing the CLR for PalmOS?
You answered your own question. MS is competing with PalmOS and will therefore not release .NET for it but neither will PalmOS for the very same reason. That would be just digging their own grave. Also, there are no important .NET apps for PDAs anyway, so why not stick to Java? Why should anybody use .NET to write for 25-30% of PDAs when they can use Java and cover almost all existing PDAs and more importantly all PDAs that will be released in the future?
So far, Microsoft has failed miserably on everything that doesn't run on x86-desktops. I don't see how .NET should be an exception.
Well, I could have said 99.9%, but that would have been an understatement, because it's more like 99.99999% or so.
Also, if you are outside Britain, it is indeed 100%.
First of all, while there are surely more desktops than Java-capable devices, the figures are not as out of proportion as you suggest. There are millions of Java devices already out and soon almost all cellphones will run it which means BILLIONS of devices.
Secondly, for desktops, allmost all the software already exists and there isn't really that much to develop. So for a developer, Java sure as hell is the more interesting platform than .NET.
And it's just another failed try to release a Microsoft phone among many. The Taiwanese maker who was working with MS at first already dropped Stinger and so did T-mobile.
Never heard of the other one and your link leads to an error-page.
So while there may be some prototypes and a handful of people stuck with a buggy .NET phone, close to 100% of cellphones don't and never will run .NET because all major cellphone-makers have chosen Symbian and Java as the platform.
Seems like you are not the only one:
stats
Also, the only company I know personally which did use IIS for something more complicated than static pages went belly-up 2 years ago...
If you look at some countries like Germany or Japan, IIS is already de-facto dead there. In those countries it's already quite hard to find a hoster that will even offer Windows, either you have to go to one of the few and very expensive hosters who offer Windows or you would have to do everything yourself.
In the USA, Microsoft's strategy to make their products as incompatible as possible might help them because there are enough MS-brainwashed people there, but everywhere else, their "designed for incompatibility" strategy is starting to hurt them a lot.
In many countries, a server equals Unix, so choosing .NET is just plain stupid because you won't find a good hoster for it. The same scenario is coming along with cellphones everywhere including the USA: Java runs, .NET doesn't. If you might ever want to do anything with cellphones, .NET isn't an option because Microsoft isn't even able to get a foot into that market.
If you choose .NET, you have significantly limited your possibilities and your flexibility. (Do you really know for sure that you won't do anything outside the MS-world in 10 years?)
With Java on the other hand, you have all your bases covered: Desktops, servers, browsers, PDAs, cellphones, embedded systems.
In the long run, Microsoft's refusal to cooperate with other technologies will hurt them also in the USA. In case you haven't noticed, the computing desktop isn't the hot thing anymore. A lot of new stuff comes out for cellphones, embedded devices and PDAs, which means no .NET, sorry.
Is there any real problem that couldn't be solved before and can be solved with .NET? I don't see it.
Java solved the problem of cross-platform compatibility. It runs everywhere on every platform, no other platform offers that (and neither does .NET).
No matter what the MS-bootlickers say, .NET can be summed up easily:
To sum up, there isn't a real reason to use .NET over Java. The Microsofties who have overrun Slashdot already will crucify me for doubting the invincibility of Microsoft, but Java is *the* standard programming language, and the only language that runs on every major and most minor platforms.
75% of webservers don't run Windows. 100% of cellphones don't run Windows. 60% of PDAs don't run Windows. Let's face it: .NET is just a desktop solution, nothing more.
Using .NET and artificially chaining yourself to one vendor and platform and shrinking your target market is a stupid idea.
Because you remain free to choose your platforms and get huge discounts from Ballmer if you threaten to leave Windows?
Microsoft-loyalists must really be the stupidest bunch of people on the planet. Everybody who is able to switch to Linux is getting huge discounts (see Munich) while the Microsoft bootlickers pay full price and still think it's a good deal.
Keep your freedom, it's worth it. (also financially in the long term)
And let's face it: All MS did the last 20 years was defend their DOS/Windows dominaton. Network effects helped them greatly, OS/2 went away almost by itself (of course MS will always be MS so they also blackmailed German computer makers not to preinstall OS/2 - however OS/2 would have died anyway.), hardware makers fought the battle for them on servers. Microsoft had only to make sure x86 stays MS-only and hardware-maker would make the hardware cheap and fast enough to endanger Unix.
Linux changed all that.
On servers Linux is extremely successful and has already surpassed Windows in Europe, on embedded systems it is about to do the same. On the desktop we still have the big problem of weak software support, but unlike IBM or Microsoft the open source community has the power to create a complete desktop from scratch: KDE. It includes everything from browser to office suite and is certainly good enough for mainstream needs.
What they have threatened is to reveal evidence that would be damaging to IBM and give them control of Linux. Anybody who has actually looked at the details of the situation knows this is just verbal flatulence, with overtones of commercial fraud.
Exactly.
Let's act like grown-ups here and realise that although the company's attitude may be somewhat lacking, they are within their legal right to do what they're doing whether others like it or not.
So essentually you say that this company has the right to be annoying and unfair, but Slashdot users don't?
Call them, mail them, annoy them. Like the Microsoft-bootlickers would say: "If it's legal, it's OK."
I think Microsoft made a big mistake with the whole SCO thing. The more people are aware of licenses and the more people understand the GPL, the worse Microsoft looks in comparison.
The SCO case does hurt Linux in the short term, that's for sure. But in the long term, it will be just a confirmation of what many already know: That users of GPLed software are much safer from legal problems than users of commercial software.
With the millions of shares Microsoft executives sell constantly, maybe they don't care about the long term...
Because Microsoft designs their software to be as incompatible to anybody else's as possible and often even to their own. Microsoft technologies only run on Microsoft software and Microsoft software with some rare exceptions only runs on Microsoft Windows which runs only on x86. (No, don't try to play the Itanium card) Unix software on the other hand runs on many different OSes from tens of different vendors on many hardware architectures.
Choosing Microsoft is the final decision, because after that there won't be any easy choices anymore.
Therefore, any non-Microsoft product is usually a lot safer investment because you are not completely dependent on the whims of a single organization.
Mod me down all you want, but you know it's true.
I am a PHP programmer and have programmed some Java some years ago. I do PHP almost exclusively now, but I always liked Java and I am thinking that maybe JSPs may be worth a look.
So although I currently don't feel an urgent need to switch and will definitely have to maintain PHP code for the rest of my life (probably ;-), I'd like to play a bit with JSP, especially because Java is so universal (runs on servers, browsers, desktops and embedded systems)
What tools do you use/recommend? (What servlet engine, just an editor or a RAD-tool?)
The way I see it, a servlet engine is more or less a JVM that puts the (standard?)output of a Java program to the webserver/browser, is that correct? (A short browse on the Apache Tomcat page could not answer that very simple question)
Thanks a lot for answering that questions.
For Microsoft you pay 99$ per incident via mail and 249$ per incident via phone.
Both are included in SuSE's offering, AFAIK.
Link
For home users or businesses who don't need any support, SuSE 8.1(or a comparable distro) for 70$ for unlimited desktops will probably the better choice.
Finally somebody who understood the reasoning behind this all...
The good thing about all this will be that SCO will be so deep in dept that it will die and take it's damn Unix IP with it into the grave, no more Unix legalese crap.
Their lies and threats (the threatened SuSE, RedHat, Linus Torvalds, all Linux users, and others - without ever really suing anybody) have given their stock a big rise and by now the executives should have sold their stock.
I will never buy a CRT again, I will never buy a computer without PCI(or whatever will replace them) slots and I will never buy a computer with a non-detachable monitor.
And most people have a similiar opinion, sorry. Nobody wants to throw away the whole computer when they want to upgrade to a bigger screen and vice versa. Actually I am currently using my 7-year old PC as a household server-router, which would not be possible with an iMac or eMac (no second ethernet card possible and the useless monitor is just in the way) which illustrates the uselessness of such throwaway products.
Hey, Apple: Remove that useless CRT and put PCI slots and a VGA-port into it. The thing would cost less to manufacture and be worth more. And pease don't tell me what "the average user" wants. There have been tens of all-integrated models in the x86-world and none have been successful, simply because everybody wants the flexibility and upgradeability of a real computer.
*Cough*, cough.
While I think that the new G5s are really great computers and especially the dual-CPU system is not overpriced, Apple lacks a cheap product line.
Sorry, but I wont buy a computer for 2000$ if all I do is surf the web and check email. Sorry, but I wont use a 2000$ computer as a router in my household. Apple's G5 offerings are great, but only for a small segment of the market.
The sad fact is that a 300$ computer from Walmart can do most of computing tasks fast enough. I really think Apple needs a cheap product line *with* PCI slots.
Sorry, but I'd rather see a comparison using a compiler used in the real world (gcc) than some special compiler not used on much other than building benchmarks.
Also, 64 Bits gives you support for more RAM which means less disk use which means more performance.
Especially because you just might want to upgrade your RAM beyound 2GB within the next 4 years, right now a 64Bit system is a very good choice. Intel has dropped the ball, it will be an PPC970 vs. Opteron match IMO.
Actually I still remember how my father paid about 3500$ for a 386 or 486 over 10 years ago...
Because it would make the Macintosh platform look more stable and a safer investment, it would make people upgrade faster which would kill off buggy earlier versions faster and would allow software developers to use the new features earlier, because (gasp) it would make customers happier?
I really hope Apple gets their act together and offers a machine with PCI slots for less than 800$.
An offering like that would double Apple marketshare within less than a year.
There are a lot of people out there who like Macs (including me) but who will not pay over 1000$ for a machine, especially when you can't get a replacement motherboard or CPU at a fair price.
And that's the other gripe I have about Apple: If they want to offer high-quality machines, fine with me. But high-quality means availability of spare parts, which means that they will have to have motherboards and CPUs in the Apple store for a reasonable price. (I'm generous: I will accept a 20% premium compared to similar x86-parts. I won't accept 200% though.) But with the current situation, Macs are throwaway computers after the warranty expired and that's not high-quality in my book.
That said, I really would like to have a PPC970 computer, but not at that price and not at the risk of having to wait while the thing is being mailed to or from Apple when something breaks.
The main reason why Linux is behind in the desktop is missing reliable Win32 compatibility. Usability sure is not perfect but certainly on par with WinXP (WinXP is not perfect either.)
Everywhere, where Win32 compatibility is not needed (on servers, on embedded systems) Linux is very strong.