I think you're getting a little ahead of yourself. Except for maybe a few nutcases, who has ever claimed that OSS companies would be making money hand-over-fist? The doubters among us don't scoff at them because they're not making Microsoft-type megabucks, we scoff at the naïve faith that business newbies have in such a shaky and unproven (and seemingly failing) business model.
Who is giving them crap for raking in billions? Nobody is, and it would be a strawman argument to claim that people are doing that. What some of us are giving them crap for is that for the most part, they can't even bring in more money than they spend. We're talking about the inability to make just a simple profit here, not vast riches.
Ya know, if you can't pay it back, maybe you just ought not borrow the money in the first place. Why is the first world supposed to be a charity who gives and gives and gives to people who can't get their own shit together?
Nice bands you listed there — if you're into that stuff, I highly recommend that you get "Viewmaster" by The Pinehurst Kids, or probably anything by 'em. You can thank me later!
Really nice interview, btw. I bet there are a lot of so-called "fans" who should be reading the part about how their silly obsessions can really wear down on a guy just trying to have fun and make a living. Take care.
I haven't seen either it or the XBox yet, but someone sent me a link to a demo (not playable, just video and audio) of the upcoming Super Mario game for the Cube. I don't usually care too much about the sound in console games, but it was pretty freaky. As far as the graphics, they weren't quite what I was expecting from what's supposed to be a state-of-the art console. Anyway, judge for yourself if you want at www.saegu.com/downloads/mario.swf (no, I don't know why they wrapped it in a Flash file).
I would hope most people knew who he was without having to read the bottom of the article.
Diffie is also the co-inventor of public-key cryptography. He's not "just a Sun employee" with a chip on his shoulder, he is a giant in his field. Give the guy the respect he deserves.
Please point us to the part of the article where he discusses cryptography, you know, the field in which he's undeniably an expert. Sorry, but it's just not there. Instead, this screed sounds as if it came straight from Scott MacNealy's keyboard.
I did have a lot of respect for the guy, and still recommend that people check out Levy's book, Crypto, for some interesting info about him and his colleagues and the great work they've done. However, this article brings my respect for him way down, because it's obvious that he's just whoring out his name recognition for Sun propaganda, and not even in a manner related to the field in which he earned his stripes.
MS seems to be pushing this ".NET" thing very hard, but it seems like it's just vaporware.
Really? Kinda funny how Microsoft just shipped the release candidate for Visual Studio.NET earlier this week, and how the.NET Framework SDK itself is about to go gold, possibly before the end of this week.
developers aren't going to spend the time to make something for this market share
"This market share" is greater than 90%. What, you think the developers are all aiming for the Amiga? You do realize that you don't need XP to run.NET apps, right?
from the looks of it, XP isn't topping the sales charts.
Comical statement considering that it's been out for less than 24 hours now.
Check the licence for UNIX -- Same deal. Note that we now have a few fully functional Unix clones, but nobody's ever gotten close with Windows.
Uh, check the license for Windows — it's not a standard. That's why nobody's gotten close with Windows. If I can refresh your memory, it's.NET that we're talking about, and C# and the CLR are open standards, which is why the Mono guys are happily chugging along in their work.
What Microsoft is charging for is for developers to hook into the.NET MyServices (formerly Hailstorm). That's because to use them, you'll be using Microsoft's own resources, i.e., Microsoft's bandwidth and servers. I think most people by now realize that the business model of giving this away for free is just about dead.
If you're developing apps that don't use.NET MyServices, there's no charge. You can download the.NET Framework SDK for free and write your programs in Notepad if you want. This includes standalone apps, server apps, and even web services -- just not.NET MyServices.
Unless Slashdot is just interested in shoving FUD down the throat of all its readers -- and I would hope you'd consider it an insult to your intelligence that they would do this -- they really should correct the story submission.
I would think that an NIH scientist would have better sense than to come here and ask a legal question. Oh well, maybe he gets turned on whenever he sees the string "IANAL" or something.
Not to mention that I doubt Apple would make anything with buttons that tiny so close together.
Actually, seeing how this is Apple, it's doubtful that there would even be more than one button. Ya know, too confusing for the target Apple market and all.;)
I hope the new Slashdot advertisement system is a terrific reminder for everyone the next time Slashdot editors are bitching about subscription services and why MyFavoriteWebsite® is EVIL for making me pay for the free content they serve up.
The person best qualified to fight against their view is the one who knows their view best.
Errm, that doesn't hold true for people blinded by zealotry, you know. And being that we *are* at Slashdot, where people think that MySQL is perfectly adequate for an enterprise database...
Cool, I'm interested, too. How much of your salary will you be paying us to do your job for you?
Re:Corporate Thinking or Public Service?
on
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· Score: 0
After you log out of Hotmail, you are sent directly to the MSN site.
No you aren't. You're sent to the Hotmail Sign-In page. What's with up you spreading disinformation like that? And why are you making excuses for why Google has so many fewer visitors? The original poster made it out like Microsoft should be fearing Google, I explained that it was kind of silly since Microsoft/MSN gets tons more eyeballs and people stay at the site longer. Microsoft being IE's default home page doesn't explain why, once people are at the site, they end up spending 25 times as long. They do it because MSN has a lot more to offer. You coming in with all this other stuff just makes you sound like a sore loser.
Re:Corporate Thinking or Public Service?
on
J#
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· Score: 0
To me it sounded like your whole post was implying that Microsoft stockholders should be worried now, partly because of Google. Now you're talking about the "real, original" MSN. Was Google even around then? Why would Microsoft's stockholders be worried about what you describe as "history?"
Re:Corporate Thinking or Public Service?
on
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· Score: 0
Who, however, would have predicted the hatchet job Linux has done to the server scene.
Ay, there's the rub! The single most important thing to note about your statement reveals itself when I restate it more succinctly: "Who, however would have predicted the hatchet job Linux has done to the UNIX server scene?
Compare the trajectories of the Unix server market compared with Microsoft server market share (remember, MS' server marketshare has never decreased since NT came out). So maybe Microsoft didn't kill Unix after all, but Microsoft and Linux together sure might.;)
Re:What does it DO?
on
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· Score: 4, Insightful
J# lets J++ and most Java developers get in on the.NET action. I say most because the version of Java supported by J# is 1.1. And yes, almost all of the hardcore Java developers are using Java 2 now (as they should be), but there's a large percentage of people still coding to the 1.1.x standard, either because they're still doing applets or because they haven't gotten all that serious about Java development.
The Java code doesn't compile to Java bytecode, but instead to CIL, the Common Intermediary Language (formerly MSIL), so that it can run under the Common Language Runtime, just like C#, VB.NET, JS.NET, Perl.NET, Python.NET, etc. It improves the interoperability because I can then take any Java class and use it like it was any other.NET class. Someone write a sweet applet or chat server or ssh client in Java? Cool, I'll take the.java files and compile them to CIL and now I can use the classes directly in my C# programs, extend them, whatever, just like they were C# files. And vice versa, and with any other.NET language.
Personally, I know it's not officially a migration tool, but I view this as more of a migration tool than anything else. Otherwise, you're going to be left using an older version of Java. It's important to note, though, that Microsoft isn't alone in this Java on.NET thing, so I think a lot of people need to calm down about it. What I mean is that other companies are going to be putting the Java language on.NET, just like other languages are being ported to.NET. And these companies will be using Java 2. So, I don't think that anybody should dismiss this concept just because Microsoft itself is only supporting Java 1.1 with it, because it's going to happen. For now, though, it is an important release so that Microsoft can support their Visual J++ users. As for a true migration tool, that's the JUMP tool (Java User Migration Path to.NET), which is coming out later, and from everything I've heard, will be for migrating Java 2 as well Java 1.1 code, probably to C#.
That said, I think there's a good benefit to it. A lot of Java programmers just flat out like the language, the whole WORA jive never mattered to them. It's really not a huge event, though, it's just one more language coming to.NET. One interesting thing, though, is that.NET programs run quite a bit faster under Windows than Java programs do. So, once a current Java is on.NET (and probably also a little bit with the older Java available via J#), Java on.NET is going to be pretty tempting to people wanting to squeeze better performance out of Java, especially if they really don't have much interest in non-Windows platforms. Interestingly enough, Microsoft could parlay this into its advantage in that.NET platform could ironically enough become the best platform on which to run Java programs. (Based on the few ports I've played around with in J# today, my really tiny code ( < ~30 LoC or so) runs faster in the 1.3.0-C JVM, while the larger stuff is running faster in the.NET CLR.)
Anyway, I really like the move, I'm glad somebody has finally put something out there which separates the Java language (which is pretty nice IMO) from the whole Sun vision of Java as a platform. Hope this helped...
The real question is: if.NET is only going to run on Windows then why does Microsoft need to set up a VM for it at all?
You just answered your own question: It isn't.:)
Re:Corporate Thinking or Public Service?
on
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· Score: 5, Insightful
Well, I understand that as a self-described "rabid Slashdotter," this might be news to you, but your entire premise is pretty wacked.
- your grip on the server market appears to be slipping
Hate to break it to you, but Microsoft's server market share has never gone down since NT first came out.
great companies such as google.com are proving that you can grab web market share fairly quickly with a better product
Well, seeing how Microsoft/MSN gets around 7 times the number of unique visitors that Google gets, and that they hang around the site around 25 times longer than Google's, you tell me how concerned they are.
technologies such as Linux, VM Ware, WINE and Java are threatening to nibble away your desktop market
They are? Funny that Microsoft's desktop market share, just like its server market share, went up over the past year. Guess they better be on the lookout for OS/2 and Amiga, too.
having some spectacular white elephants such as MSN on record
See above about MSN.
I think that the shareholders of Microsoft would be pretty relieved that it's one of the best performing stocks this year. Oh, and they're probably happy as Hell that they don't listen to Slashdot hype, otherwise they might've traded all their Microsoft shares for stock in VA Linux, Red Hat, and Sun, thus watching their kids' college funds go *poof*!
Slashdot Mirror
I think you're getting a little ahead of yourself. Except for maybe a few nutcases, who has ever claimed that OSS companies would be making money hand-over-fist? The doubters among us don't scoff at them because they're not making Microsoft-type megabucks, we scoff at the naïve faith that business newbies have in such a shaky and unproven (and seemingly failing) business model.
Who is giving them crap for raking in billions? Nobody is, and it would be a strawman argument to claim that people are doing that. What some of us are giving them crap for is that for the most part, they can't even bring in more money than they spend. We're talking about the inability to make just a simple profit here, not vast riches.
Ya know, if you can't pay it back, maybe you just ought not borrow the money in the first place. Why is the first world supposed to be a charity who gives and gives and gives to people who can't get their own shit together?
"The Horrifying Tale of the Boy Who Was Suprised by Wealth" always sends shivers up my spine. Nice mixture of scariness with a moral at the end.
Nice bands you listed there — if you're into that stuff, I highly recommend that you get "Viewmaster" by The Pinehurst Kids, or probably anything by 'em. You can thank me later!
Really nice interview, btw. I bet there are a lot of so-called "fans" who should be reading the part about how their silly obsessions can really wear down on a guy just trying to have fun and make a living. Take care.
I haven't seen either it or the XBox yet, but someone sent me a link to a demo (not playable, just video and audio) of the upcoming Super Mario game for the Cube. I don't usually care too much about the sound in console games, but it was pretty freaky. As far as the graphics, they weren't quite what I was expecting from what's supposed to be a state-of-the art console. Anyway, judge for yourself if you want at www.saegu.com/downloads/mario.swf (no, I don't know why they wrapped it in a Flash file).
give them a break, nobody is perfect
Yep, and Slashdot editors manage to prove it :)
just about every hour of every day.
OK, raise your hand if you'd trust Slashdot with your credit card information. Heh... heh heh. ha HA BWAHAHHAHAHAHHAHA! Oh, stop it, it hurts!
I would hope most people knew who he was without having to read the bottom of the article.
Diffie is also the co-inventor of public-key cryptography. He's not "just a Sun employee" with a chip on his shoulder, he is a giant in his field. Give the guy the respect he deserves.
Please point us to the part of the article where he discusses cryptography, you know, the field in which he's undeniably an expert. Sorry, but it's just not there. Instead, this screed sounds as if it came straight from Scott MacNealy's keyboard.
I did have a lot of respect for the guy, and still recommend that people check out Levy's book, Crypto, for some interesting info about him and his colleagues and the great work they've done. However, this article brings my respect for him way down, because it's obvious that he's just whoring out his name recognition for Sun propaganda, and not even in a manner related to the field in which he earned his stripes.
MS seems to be pushing this ".NET" thing very hard, but it seems like it's just vaporware.
Really? Kinda funny how Microsoft just shipped the release candidate for Visual Studio.NET earlier this week, and how the .NET Framework SDK itself is about to go gold, possibly before the end of this week.
developers aren't going to spend the time to make something for this market share
"This market share" is greater than 90%. What, you think the developers are all aiming for the Amiga? You do realize that you don't need XP to run .NET apps, right?
from the looks of it, XP isn't topping the sales charts.
Comical statement considering that it's been out for less than 24 hours now.
Check the licence for UNIX -- Same deal. Note that we now have a few fully functional Unix clones, but nobody's ever gotten close with Windows.
Uh, check the license for Windows — it's not a standard. That's why nobody's gotten close with Windows. If I can refresh your memory, it's .NET that we're talking about, and C# and the CLR are open standards, which is why the Mono guys are happily chugging along in their work.
What Microsoft is charging for is for developers to hook into the .NET MyServices (formerly Hailstorm). That's because to use them, you'll be using Microsoft's own resources, i.e., Microsoft's bandwidth and servers. I think most people by now realize that the business model of giving this away for free is just about dead.
If you're developing apps that don't use .NET MyServices, there's no charge. You can download the .NET Framework SDK for free and write your programs in Notepad if you want. This includes standalone apps, server apps, and even web services -- just not .NET MyServices.
Unless Slashdot is just interested in shoving FUD down the throat of all its readers -- and I would hope you'd consider it an insult to your intelligence that they would do this -- they really should correct the story submission.
I would think that an NIH scientist would have better sense than to come here and ask a legal question. Oh well, maybe he gets turned on whenever he sees the string "IANAL" or something.
Not to mention that I doubt Apple would make anything with buttons that tiny so close together.
Actually, seeing how this is Apple, it's doubtful that there would even be more than one button. Ya know, too confusing for the target Apple market and all. ;)
I hope the new Slashdot advertisement system is a terrific reminder for everyone the next time Slashdot editors are bitching about subscription services and why MyFavoriteWebsite® is EVIL for making me pay for the free content they serve up.
The person best qualified to fight against their view is the one who knows their view best.
Errm, that doesn't hold true for people blinded by zealotry, you know. And being that we *are* at Slashdot, where people think that MySQL is perfectly adequate for an enterprise database...
<dry-heave
Not even an operating system switch could help Testicle Tech...
Cool, I'm interested, too. How much of your salary will you be paying us to do your job for you?
After you log out of Hotmail, you are sent directly to the MSN site.
No you aren't. You're sent to the Hotmail Sign-In page. What's with up you spreading disinformation like that? And why are you making excuses for why Google has so many fewer visitors? The original poster made it out like Microsoft should be fearing Google, I explained that it was kind of silly since Microsoft/MSN gets tons more eyeballs and people stay at the site longer. Microsoft being IE's default home page doesn't explain why, once people are at the site, they end up spending 25 times as long. They do it because MSN has a lot more to offer. You coming in with all this other stuff just makes you sound like a sore loser.
To me it sounded like your whole post was implying that Microsoft stockholders should be worried now, partly because of Google. Now you're talking about the "real, original" MSN. Was Google even around then? Why would Microsoft's stockholders be worried about what you describe as "history?"
Who, however, would have predicted the hatchet job Linux has done to the server scene.
Ay, there's the rub! The single most important thing to note about your statement reveals itself when I restate it more succinctly: "Who, however would have predicted the hatchet job Linux has done to the UNIX server scene?
Compare the trajectories of the Unix server market compared with Microsoft server market share (remember, MS' server marketshare has never decreased since NT came out). So maybe Microsoft didn't kill Unix after all, but Microsoft and Linux together sure might. ;)
J# lets J++ and most Java developers get in on the .NET action. I say most because the version of Java supported by J# is 1.1. And yes, almost all of the hardcore Java developers are using Java 2 now (as they should be), but there's a large percentage of people still coding to the 1.1.x standard, either because they're still doing applets or because they haven't gotten all that serious about Java development.
The Java code doesn't compile to Java bytecode, but instead to CIL, the Common Intermediary Language (formerly MSIL), so that it can run under the Common Language Runtime, just like C#, VB.NET, JS.NET, Perl.NET, Python.NET, etc. It improves the interoperability because I can then take any Java class and use it like it was any other .NET class. Someone write a sweet applet or chat server or ssh client in Java? Cool, I'll take the .java files and compile them to CIL and now I can use the classes directly in my C# programs, extend them, whatever, just like they were C# files. And vice versa, and with any other .NET language.
Personally, I know it's not officially a migration tool, but I view this as more of a migration tool than anything else. Otherwise, you're going to be left using an older version of Java. It's important to note, though, that Microsoft isn't alone in this Java on .NET thing, so I think a lot of people need to calm down about it. What I mean is that other companies are going to be putting the Java language on .NET, just like other languages are being ported to .NET. And these companies will be using Java 2. So, I don't think that anybody should dismiss this concept just because Microsoft itself is only supporting Java 1.1 with it, because it's going to happen. For now, though, it is an important release so that Microsoft can support their Visual J++ users. As for a true migration tool, that's the JUMP tool (Java User Migration Path to .NET), which is coming out later, and from everything I've heard, will be for migrating Java 2 as well Java 1.1 code, probably to C#.
That said, I think there's a good benefit to it. A lot of Java programmers just flat out like the language, the whole WORA jive never mattered to them. It's really not a huge event, though, it's just one more language coming to .NET. One interesting thing, though, is that .NET programs run quite a bit faster under Windows than Java programs do. So, once a current Java is on .NET (and probably also a little bit with the older Java available via J#), Java on .NET is going to be pretty tempting to people wanting to squeeze better performance out of Java, especially if they really don't have much interest in non-Windows platforms. Interestingly enough, Microsoft could parlay this into its advantage in that .NET platform could ironically enough become the best platform on which to run Java programs. (Based on the few ports I've played around with in J# today, my really tiny code ( < ~30 LoC or so) runs faster in the 1.3.0-C JVM, while the larger stuff is running faster in the .NET CLR.)
Anyway, I really like the move, I'm glad somebody has finally put something out there which separates the Java language (which is pretty nice IMO) from the whole Sun vision of Java as a platform. Hope this helped...
The real question is: if .NET is only going to run on Windows then why does Microsoft need to set up a VM for it at all?
You just answered your own question: It isn't. :)
Well, I understand that as a self-described "rabid Slashdotter," this might be news to you, but your entire premise is pretty wacked.
- your grip on the server market appears to be slipping
Hate to break it to you, but Microsoft's server market share has never gone down since NT first came out.
great companies such as google.com are proving that you can grab web market share fairly quickly with a better product
Well, seeing how Microsoft/MSN gets around 7 times the number of unique visitors that Google gets, and that they hang around the site around 25 times longer than Google's, you tell me how concerned they are.
technologies such as Linux, VM Ware, WINE and Java are threatening to nibble away your desktop market
They are? Funny that Microsoft's desktop market share, just like its server market share, went up over the past year. Guess they better be on the lookout for OS/2 and Amiga, too.
having some spectacular white elephants such as MSN on record
See above about MSN.
I think that the shareholders of Microsoft would be pretty relieved that it's one of the best performing stocks this year. Oh, and they're probably happy as Hell that they don't listen to Slashdot hype, otherwise they might've traded all their Microsoft shares for stock in VA Linux, Red Hat, and Sun, thus watching their kids' college funds go *poof*!
"We" did not hate Iran. Our government hated them, the people could care less.
You're kidding, right? One of the more popular novelty shirts in the '80s read "Ayatollah Assahola."