Kids of today will simply grow up to hold the attitude that literally everyone has made mistakes in their past, especially so while young, and most things a person did won't be held against them.
Devoutly to be wished, but it seems optimistic. More likely in the future success may depend on how well you can get your online "records" erased (good potential business opportunity?). I doubt high level politicos will have much trouble with this, since they're already subject to so much scrutiny (is it true that Barry Obama refused to share the last cupcake with you, and how has this traumatized you since the third grade?). It's other people. If their ages can be correctly identified it'll be easy to get the info on anyone under 18 erased (think of the children). The biggest problem will probably be what people do in their late teens and early twenties.
FWIW my coworker says the same thing about his teenagers. May Facebook and all this other social media crap die out. It's especially odd with teenagers, who normally see their friends every school day. Hint to nerds: girls are actually more fun in person.
in the EU, things are a little bit different than in the United States. While corporations do have a lot of power here, it is nothing like what you see across the ocean
That must explain why in the EU insolvent banks were taken into receivership instead of bailing them out to the detriment of citizens (e.g. Ireland).
As someone who has a morbidly obese mother (and a pile of other relatives), whose health issues have caused enormous damage to our family over the years, you don't know what the fuck you're talking about.
Nowhere did I say obesity wasn't bad for your health. You're angry at your mother because she's your mother. If she wasn't a relative or friend, I'd say her obesity was not your concern.
No irony. The first is a joke. Since I'm obviously a Slashdotter, it's making fun of one's own group. If self-deprecating humor is un-PC now, we're all screwed.
I love how we are supposed to not only accept but encourage obese people to stay obese. We have to say they are beautiful, healthy, and that being fat is not their fault
Do you have any evidence for such absurd ideas, or do you suffer from the mental equivalent of the sort of laziness and self-indulgence that fat people have about food,
I don't think the OP's trying to be sanctimonious, but admitting to a bias.
Anything is possible, but it sure didn't sound that way. I would expect such a person to use the term "bias" or in someway indicate it's a problem they have.
I "blame" fat people for being fat for the same reason I blame criminals for being criminals
It's interesting that you compare fat people with criminals. What next, people who talk obnoxiously loud in restaurants are like perpetrators of genocide?
it's just a lifestyle choice which doesn't really impact me
How generous of you to include that as an afterthought. You forgot to mention that that's the important difference between fat people and criminals. BTW, even people who are fat enough to cause health problems are not your problem. They have lower lifetime healthcare costs.
It is just a summary but they link to their more official sources. The core values, as quoted from the blog:
The lifetime costs were in Euros:
Healthy: 281,000
Obese: 250,000
Smokers: 220,000
So, obesity saves more than 10% of lifetime healthcare cost.
Thank you! I knew that was true of smokers, but wasn't sure about obesity. Despite silly things like objective data (which Slashdotters otherwise rightly insist on) people will still use "fat people raise my healthcare costs" as an excuse for their sanctimony.
My brother-in-law is a nurse. He says that the overwhelming majority of his patients are in the hospital due to poor lifestyle choices
Some people would cite a study, but you cite your brother-in-law the nurse. First, "poor lifestyle choices" are about more than being fat. Second, what are his prejudices? The prejudices we all have is why an objective study is better than your brother-in-law the nurse.
we're essentially programmed to prefer skinny people
No. In various societies at various times (including today) what we consider overweight or fat is preferred.
* about 40% of med students never even graduate and become doctors anyway
Cite?
* it was done at a single "Southeastern university"
Which means a follow on study should cover a broader group, not that the study is invalid. Starting with a small sample and expanding it as time and money allows is common practice.
* one of the assumptions they were worried about was that they "are more likely to assume that obese individuals won’t follow treatment plans." Given the number one thing an obese person can do to improve their health is exercise, eat less, and subsequently lose weight... they probably have a reason to worry about that, and it's therefore medically significant to their treatment recommendations!
They said "treatment plans", not "treatment plans related to obesity". Treatment plans specifically related to obesity are, as you observed, not necessary except in extreme cases. Dealing with a broken finger or taking the entire course of antibiotics even though you're feeling better also involve treatment plans. Being fat usually means a lack of self-control or excessive self-indulgence in one particular area. The same is true about people who do any number of things, like have unprotected sex with multiple partners. It does not mean they won't follow recommendations in other areas. Your prejudice demonstrates exactly what the study is concerned about.
one thing an obese person can do to improve their health is exercise, eat less
Putting aside that that's two things, there is growing evidence that getting insufficient exercise is worse than being moderately overweight (not fat though). There are plenty of thin people who get little exercise, and exercise is not the biggest factor in loosing weight. However the amount of exercise you get is something that's easy to lie to the doctor about. Additionally a lack of aerobic/cardio exercise is not something that's immediately obvious to people you meet, hence less prejudice.
A health care professional can be expected to have a bias regarding healthy vs unhealthy life choices.
No shit. That is not what they mean by bias in this study. RTFA:
“Bias can affect clinical care and the doctor-patient relationship, and even a patient’s willingness or desire to go see their physician, so it is crucial that we try to deal with any bias during medical school,” said David Miller, M.D., associate professor of internal medicine at Wake Forest Baptist and lead author of the study.
“Previous research has shown that on average, physicians have a strong anti-fat bias similar to that of the general population. Doctors are more likely to assume that obese individuals won’t follow treatment plans, and they are less likely to respect obese patients than average weight patients,” Miller said.
I hate sanctimonious people, and that holier-than-thou nonsense is what the prejudice against fat people is about. By prejudice I mean being biased against people with regard to things that have nothing to do with their weight. It does not mean not wanting a fat girlfriend (or in the case of Slashdotters, not fantasizing about having a fat girlfriend), or suspecting that they wouldn't be good on the track team, or even about charging them more for life insurance. It means being biased about the guy two desks down who is fat as a pig but is a great programmer, or simply that fat people aren't as good as you. Do you feel like you're so much better than the next person simply because they're heavier than you? Congratulations, everybody needs somebody to look down on. BTW, what sense of inferiority are you trying to compensate for?
It's socially unacceptable these days to be prejudiced against people because of the color of their skin or their sex, so "those people" become fat people. There are lots of other possibilities, but fat is good because you can tell just by looking at people. I'm not interested in the argument that race and sex are something that you're born with, whereas fat is something that a person has much more control over. That's an intellectual argument, and prejudice is not something that rises to an intellectual level. It comes simply from the crude desire to have a clearly defined group of "those people" that you can complain about and feel superior to.
The Continental wasn't valued much because it looked like we'd lose the Revolution, they were issued by a government that lacked the power to tax, and the British were counterfeiting them wholesale. Things are a little different now.
the US debt/GDP ratio stood at 105% as of March
In the US at the end of WWII it was 125%, and in UK in 1815 it was 260%. Interestingly those times were the beginning of unprecedented growth for both countries. I'm not saying that the debt cause that growth, but it certainly didn't impede it.
I'm not thrilled w/ the current US debt/GDP, but worry that austerity could make things worse. There's an argument that that's what's happened in the UK. Debt/GDP can increase if either the debt increases or the GDP decreases (or even fails to rise as much as anticipated).
Re:The name Ethernet is 40 years old...
on
Ethernet Turns 40
·
· Score: 1
In some ways, the great success of Ethernet is that it became the name we gave to whatever technology won out.
Of course, the only cooler name than ethernet would be æthernet. What other networking standard has a name that's a joke?
And Germany is known for its lack of scientific innovation...
During the Nazi era it was. While engineering for weapons continued apace (rockets, jet engines) their scientific work largely died. The Nazis decimated the educational system of which the Germans had been so justifiably proud, substituting indoctrination for education. When asked what he thought of the universities after the Jews had been purged from them, the eminent elderly mathematician David Hilbert basically said "what universities"?
Sorry you didn't get as much snow as forecast. You can ask for a refund. On the bright side satellites do help predict the landfall of hurricanes, which can save thousands of lives. For examples of how bad things can get when they can't predict landfall, see the 1900 Galveston hurricane and the 1938 New England hurricane (aka the Long Island Express).
Slashdot Mirror
Kids of today will simply grow up to hold the attitude that literally everyone has made mistakes in their past, especially so while young, and most things a person did won't be held against them.
Devoutly to be wished, but it seems optimistic. More likely in the future success may depend on how well you can get your online "records" erased (good potential business opportunity?). I doubt high level politicos will have much trouble with this, since they're already subject to so much scrutiny (is it true that Barry Obama refused to share the last cupcake with you, and how has this traumatized you since the third grade?). It's other people. If their ages can be correctly identified it'll be easy to get the info on anyone under 18 erased (think of the children). The biggest problem will probably be what people do in their late teens and early twenties.
FWIW my coworker says the same thing about his teenagers. May Facebook and all this other social media crap die out. It's especially odd with teenagers, who normally see their friends every school day. Hint to nerds: girls are actually more fun in person.
But the Amish aren't stupid enough to become politicians.
Unless the incision was in the spot where the fat on the stomach folds over
Uh, you do realize that women who've just given birth aren't known for flat stomachs, right?
in the EU, things are a little bit different than in the United States. While corporations do have a lot of power here, it is nothing like what you see across the ocean
That must explain why in the EU insolvent banks were taken into receivership instead of bailing them out to the detriment of citizens (e.g. Ireland).
As someone who has a morbidly obese mother (and a pile of other relatives), whose health issues have caused enormous damage to our family over the years, you don't know what the fuck you're talking about.
Nowhere did I say obesity wasn't bad for your health. You're angry at your mother because she's your mother. If she wasn't a relative or friend, I'd say her obesity was not your concern.
No irony. The first is a joke. Since I'm obviously a Slashdotter, it's making fun of one's own group. If self-deprecating humor is un-PC now, we're all screwed.
I love how we are supposed to not only accept but encourage obese people to stay obese. We have to say they are beautiful, healthy, and that being fat is not their fault
Do you have any evidence for such absurd ideas, or do you suffer from the mental equivalent of the sort of laziness and self-indulgence that fat people have about food,
Co-worker had recently had a C-section get infected, and the doctor nagged her about her weight. She just gave birth you lazy cocksucker!
Not lazy, incompetent. Possibly also diverting the focus from that fact that they fucked up her C-section.
I don't think the OP's trying to be sanctimonious, but admitting to a bias.
Anything is possible, but it sure didn't sound that way. I would expect such a person to use the term "bias" or in someway indicate it's a problem they have.
I "blame" fat people for being fat for the same reason I blame criminals for being criminals
It's interesting that you compare fat people with criminals. What next, people who talk obnoxiously loud in restaurants are like perpetrators of genocide?
it's just a lifestyle choice which doesn't really impact me
How generous of you to include that as an afterthought. You forgot to mention that that's the important difference between fat people and criminals. BTW, even people who are fat enough to cause health problems are not your problem. They have lower lifetime healthcare costs.
Citation: http://daveatherton.wordpress.com/2012/03/17/the-true-costs-of-treating-smokers-the-obese-and-the-healthy/
It is just a summary but they link to their more official sources. The core values, as quoted from the blog: The lifetime costs were in Euros: Healthy: 281,000 Obese: 250,000 Smokers: 220,000
So, obesity saves more than 10% of lifetime healthcare cost.
Thank you! I knew that was true of smokers, but wasn't sure about obesity. Despite silly things like objective data (which Slashdotters otherwise rightly insist on) people will still use "fat people raise my healthcare costs" as an excuse for their sanctimony.
My brother-in-law is a nurse. He says that the overwhelming majority of his patients are in the hospital due to poor lifestyle choices
Some people would cite a study, but you cite your brother-in-law the nurse. First, "poor lifestyle choices" are about more than being fat. Second, what are his prejudices? The prejudices we all have is why an objective study is better than your brother-in-law the nurse.
we're essentially programmed to prefer skinny people
No. In various societies at various times (including today) what we consider overweight or fat is preferred.
You couldn't have expressed it in clearer or simpler terms, or found a better example of the problem. Let's hope "some old guy" is not a doctor.
* about 40% of med students never even graduate and become doctors anyway
Cite?
* it was done at a single "Southeastern university"
Which means a follow on study should cover a broader group, not that the study is invalid. Starting with a small sample and expanding it as time and money allows is common practice.
* one of the assumptions they were worried about was that they "are more likely to assume that obese individuals won’t follow treatment plans." Given the number one thing an obese person can do to improve their health is exercise, eat less, and subsequently lose weight ... they probably have a reason to worry about that, and it's therefore medically significant to their treatment recommendations!
They said "treatment plans", not "treatment plans related to obesity". Treatment plans specifically related to obesity are, as you observed, not necessary except in extreme cases. Dealing with a broken finger or taking the entire course of antibiotics even though you're feeling better also involve treatment plans. Being fat usually means a lack of self-control or excessive self-indulgence in one particular area. The same is true about people who do any number of things, like have unprotected sex with multiple partners. It does not mean they won't follow recommendations in other areas. Your prejudice demonstrates exactly what the study is concerned about.
one thing an obese person can do to improve their health is exercise, eat less
Putting aside that that's two things, there is growing evidence that getting insufficient exercise is worse than being moderately overweight (not fat though). There are plenty of thin people who get little exercise, and exercise is not the biggest factor in loosing weight. However the amount of exercise you get is something that's easy to lie to the doctor about. Additionally a lack of aerobic/cardio exercise is not something that's immediately obvious to people you meet, hence less prejudice.
A health care professional can be expected to have a bias regarding healthy vs unhealthy life choices.
No shit. That is not what they mean by bias in this study. RTFA:
“Bias can affect clinical care and the doctor-patient relationship, and even a patient’s willingness or desire to go see their physician, so it is crucial that we try to deal with any bias during medical school,” said David Miller, M.D., associate professor of internal medicine at Wake Forest Baptist and lead author of the study.
“Previous research has shown that on average, physicians have a strong anti-fat bias similar to that of the general population. Doctors are more likely to assume that obese individuals won’t follow treatment plans, and they are less likely to respect obese patients than average weight patients,” Miller said.
I hate sanctimonious people, and that holier-than-thou nonsense is what the prejudice against fat people is about. By prejudice I mean being biased against people with regard to things that have nothing to do with their weight. It does not mean not wanting a fat girlfriend (or in the case of Slashdotters, not fantasizing about having a fat girlfriend), or suspecting that they wouldn't be good on the track team, or even about charging them more for life insurance. It means being biased about the guy two desks down who is fat as a pig but is a great programmer, or simply that fat people aren't as good as you. Do you feel like you're so much better than the next person simply because they're heavier than you? Congratulations, everybody needs somebody to look down on. BTW, what sense of inferiority are you trying to compensate for?
It's socially unacceptable these days to be prejudiced against people because of the color of their skin or their sex, so "those people" become fat people. There are lots of other possibilities, but fat is good because you can tell just by looking at people. I'm not interested in the argument that race and sex are something that you're born with, whereas fat is something that a person has much more control over. That's an intellectual argument, and prejudice is not something that rises to an intellectual level. It comes simply from the crude desire to have a clearly defined group of "those people" that you can complain about and feel superior to.
P.S. See Dunbal below (@5:16) for what a real doctor is supposed to be like. Either tame your juvenile prejudices or find another line of work.
I know exactly what I think about fat people and It's not good.
I feel the same way about sanctimonious people. Sounds like you'll make a shitty doctor.
The US, in 1779.
The Continental wasn't valued much because it looked like we'd lose the Revolution, they were issued by a government that lacked the power to tax, and the British were counterfeiting them wholesale. Things are a little different now.
the US debt/GDP ratio stood at 105% as of March
In the US at the end of WWII it was 125%, and in UK in 1815 it was 260%. Interestingly those times were the beginning of unprecedented growth for both countries. I'm not saying that the debt cause that growth, but it certainly didn't impede it.
I'm not thrilled w/ the current US debt/GDP, but worry that austerity could make things worse. There's an argument that that's what's happened in the UK. Debt/GDP can increase if either the debt increases or the GDP decreases (or even fails to rise as much as anticipated).
In some ways, the great success of Ethernet is that it became the name we gave to whatever technology won out.
Of course, the only cooler name than ethernet would be æthernet. What other networking standard has a name that's a joke?
And Germany is known for its lack of scientific innovation...
During the Nazi era it was. While engineering for weapons continued apace (rockets, jet engines) their scientific work largely died. The Nazis decimated the educational system of which the Germans had been so justifiably proud, substituting indoctrination for education. When asked what he thought of the universities after the Jews had been purged from them, the eminent elderly mathematician David Hilbert basically said "what universities"?
Sorry you didn't get as much snow as forecast. You can ask for a refund. On the bright side satellites do help predict the landfall of hurricanes, which can save thousands of lives. For examples of how bad things can get when they can't predict landfall, see the 1900 Galveston hurricane and the 1938 New England hurricane (aka the Long Island Express).
Did we just suddenly fall off the fuckin' hurricane map?!?
Sorry, didn't realize you were still around after that last hurricane.
OK, we choose to cut weather forecasting for the northeast, rather than our useless website or that $200 million supercomputer to beat out the EU
That's $25M, not $200M, and I suspect the website is even cheaper.