What method is in place for assuring the capsule will be opened in 52001 and not some other time? Does the capsule broadcast its presence in 52001 and announce that it is ready to be opened? ----
Gnome was not declared to be the standard. It was declared to be a standard desktop and development environment for Unix and Linux. The Gnome Foundation is trying to set up Gnome as a standard. This does not mean that they are declaring KDE dead or saying it will not play a role. By declaring Gnome as a standard and getting companies like Sun, HP, IBM, OMG, Helix Code, Eazel, etc. involved, they are increasing the scope of the project. ----
Eh, did you intentionally miss Corel and SuSe? Also Best Linux pops to my mind right now.
No, I did not intentionally leave out Corel, Suse, or any of the other distributions. I just mentioned a few of the big names that came to mind. I left out many distributions that use KDE as the default and many that use Gnome as the default.
And HP and Sun hardly will be
the future of the workstations. Sounds more like server manufacturers wanted to define the desktop "standard".
HP and Sun do not just sell servers. They sell many, many UNIX workstations. Both of my previous programming jobs used these workstations. At the Washington University Electronic Radiology Laboratory we used Solaris on Sparc stations. And at Unigraphics Solutions my workstation was an HP-UX box. ----
Do you have data to back this up? Which distributions are you talking about? Caldera, Mandrake (others?) default to KDE. RedHat, TurboLinux, Debian default to Gnome. Soon HP and Sun will default to Gnome instead of CDE. I'm not seeing your point.
Gnome is unstabel to me and very clunky
Try Helix Gnome. It's very stable and a great distribution of the Gnome platform.
The KDE support base also is growing
exponentially when compared to Gnomes support base.
What does this statement even mean? You're making a mathematical comparison with no data to base it on. How did you arive at this statement? ----
Actually picking a RELIGION is the same as picking socks, it's a matter of preference, either you are a catholic, a baptist, a
muslum, a jew, or a hindu. They all believe in the existance of a god or gods, it's simple a matter of which god you are going
to pick. The TRUTH you are talking about is that either there is a god (or gods) or their isn't, that has nothing to do with the
fact that you are a catholic, a jew, or a hindu.
I think perhaps you might need a lesson in basic classical logic. There is a fundamental difference between a choice about sock preference, what to have for dinner, what kind of car you want to drive, et. al, and what you are going to believe is true. The difference is that when you make a decision about what kind of car you are going to drive, for example, you're just deciding what your preference is. There is no wrong answer. When you are deciding what to believe regarding the nature of the universe, the existence of God, if he does exist, what his character is like, etc. there are many wrong answers! You can be completely, utterly, fantastically, desparingly, hopelessly wrong in your views of the nature of the universe. You can't be wrong when you make a decision about what socks to wear. ----
You're either misinformed or pretty lacking in imaginations here. I have a couple of Indian friends who'll gladly tell you they
not only believe in one God, but actually in a whole pantheon of Them! And if more is indeed better, I guess we non-Hindus
are pretty much doomed...
And of course, even within the context of the three main monotheist religions there's a couple questions that set them apart
concerning the wishes of the Deity...
You missed the point of what I was saying. Maybe I should have been more specific. I picked one religion, Christianity, as an example to illustrate my point. There either is just one God, or there isn't. You could also pick another religion, as an example and say, there are either many Gods or there are not many Gods. The entire point was to say that religion isn't the same is picking what socks you want to wear on a given morning; it's not just a matter of preference. ----
Re:What Sun should have done...
on
KDE Strikes Back
·
· Score: 2
I would suggest you try Gnome 1.2.X. And I'd also suggest using the Helix Gnome distribution. It installs beautifully on top of RedHat 6.1 and is very stable. ----
Now, with the official blessing of IBM et al, GNOME users are talking about how KDE is scared to lose, how
GNOME is going to totally take over the Linux desktop, etc. Lovely, absolutely lovely.
I haven't seen many GNOME users talking this way, but if they do, ignore them, dismiss them, don't even acknowledge their statements. I, along with hundreds of other GNOME developers and users that I'm in contact with, are still saying that Gnome brings freedom to the desktop and that KDE and GNOME can coexist. And yes, I'm very excited about the GNOME Foundation! ----
That is a rather poor example. Is it just a matter of preference whether you believe that God exists or not? Ultimately, there either is, or isn't a God. There cannot both exist a God and not exist a God. And if you're wrong...
Questions about Truth are not the same as questions about what your favourite colour is, or what would you like for dinner, or do you like your beer on a thoroughly salted napkin or a coaster? Just to pick one religion, Christianity claims that Jesus Christ is God's son...that he existed in space and time. Given the rest of the Biblical narrative, whether or not this is true has an enormous effect on every person that has ever lived, is living, or will live. I'm not even stating whether it's true or not. I'm just saying that the Truth actually does matter. It's not just a matter of preference.
There is a difference between creating completely free desktop and development environment and trying to actively kill off another project. Gnome was not started to kill KDE. A completely free system (beer and speech) was and is necessary given their (Miguel and the other original Gnome hackers) and my worldview. ----
That's kind of like saying, "Why would I want a Linux distribution?" Now granted, it's a bit different. A Linux distribution does a lot for you that would be *very* difficult to do on your own if you were not experienced, such as installation, setting up the file system, etc. But the analogy is still a good one. A distribution bundles everything together nicely. You don't just get the applications in their default state as written by each individual developer. You get an integrated set of applications that work well together because they were customized and designed in that way. You also get a desktop environment that is well-tested. If you just upgrade individual packages, that's great, but they won't necessarily work well together. Helix Code does for Gnome, what Red Hat, Mandrake, Debian, et. al. do for the GNU/Linux operating system. Installation and upgrading is easy. You have a set of applications that have been tested to work well together and have been packaged accordingly, placed in one central location and "stamped," if you will, with company's seal of approval. Now, if that means nothing to you, then don't use it. But for a lot of users, this is a dream come true. All they have to do is run the simple installer and they have a complete desktop, development environment at their fingertips. When there are updates and bug fixes all they have to do is run the upgrade utility. All the applications are tested and set up so they are easy to find and launch. Bug Buddy is a click away to report problems they find with the system. As new appications become available, they don't have to go out searching high and low for them. Helix Code adds applications to their distribution regularly, improving the user experience. ----
rsync is a great tool for this, agreed. In case anyone doesn't want to work out the details of how to get it to work, here's what I have worked out. I have a directory, ~/helix/RedHat-6/ where I store my RPMS...then I do the following:
cd ~/helix
rsync -vau --exclude="*.src.rpm" rsync://www.helixcode.com/http/distributions/RedHa t-6.
rpm -Fvh *.rpm
I'm not entirely sure what you mean. AbiSuite is included with the Helix Code distribution, along with dia, gnumeric, and gnucash as part of the Gnome office section. See the list of packages if you don't believe me. Now, what the future holds is still uncertain. Especially since it seems now that Star Office will be modularized, bonoboized, and become Gnome Office in one form or another. Still, there may be high enough demand for a lightweight, fast word processor like AbiWord for Helix Code to include it in their distribution of Gnome. And that'll be sweet. Think of the choices you'll have! But either way, even if they choose to remove AbiWord from their distribution of Gnome, you can always download it and install it yourself. AbiWord isn't part of Gnome proper, anyway. It's really an add-on application by a third-part free software developer, AbiSource.
As far as your comments regarding the Gnome Foundation go, I would encourage you to read the Draft Charter. There's a lot of good stuff in there. It's heavily modeled on the Apache Foundation. The Foundation isn't just a bunch of companies dictating policy. In fact, that's precisely what it isn't. I, for one, happen to be a member of the Gnome Foundation, and I have contributed relatively little. They're very open to letting contributors be voting members, and very opposed to the Foundation being dictated by corporate policy. I'll give you some quotations from the charter to give you an idea of what I'm talking about:
In almost every sense of the word, GNOME is an open project. This is one of our greatest strengths, has always been, and should be the balefire by which we plot our course into the future.
The foundation should not be exclusionary or elitist. Every GNOME contributor, however small his or her contribution, must have the opportunity to participate in determining the direction and actions of the project.
The openness of GNOME has always been a point of pride for us, and an important characteristic which distinguishes us from many of the other open source projects out there. Anyone can become a contributor, write access to our CVS does not involve trial by fire or other masonic rituals, we don't use Access Control Lists, and we've always been exceedingly good about folding talented newcomers in our arms and welcoming them to the project. No resume required.
Participation in the foundation is intended only for those people who are responsible for actual contributions to the software which makes up GNOME. A corporation, organization or individual should not be granted a place in the foundation unless its presence is justified by the merits of its contribution. Money cannot buy influence in the GNOME project: show us the code (or documentation, or translations, or leadership, or webmastering...).
The foundation must act in the best interests of GNOME, independent of influence from outside organizations and corporations. No single entity should have the ability to direct GNOME to its own ends.
Helix Gnome is a Gnome distribution. It's analogous to the concept of Linux distributions, where vendors customize the kernel, integrate everything, do bug fixes, decide what packages they wish to include, and make it easy to install and use. That's what Helix Code is doing for Gnome. They've written utilities like the installer and updater to facilitate the installation/upgrading process. They've decided which packages they wish to include in their distribution of the Gnome Environment. And they're doing application development. They have some of the best Gnome hackers around working for them, writing Evolution (the Fifth Preview Release is out now, btw!), the Helix Setup Tools, and improving the desktop and development environment in general. ----
Re:Deeply ingrained inferiority complex!
on
Is UNIX An OS?
·
· Score: 1
The only thing Mac OS X will have that my Linux box wont is Quicktime 4
Have you taken a look at Aqua? Linux has nothing even close to this. Sure, people are working extensions to X involving alpha channeling, etc. But it just isn't there yet. ----
Ah, but the real advantage is that no one will have to actually ask you what time it is. They can just ssh into your watch to find out what time it is. ----
The short answer is that Nautilus is Eazel's open source replacement for the current Gnome file manager, gmc. As the Gnome hackers discovered once they were deep into the project, Midnight Commander wasn't the greatest of file managers to use as a starting point for a Gnome file manager. Also, as The Gnome Project has matured, we have new technologies to work with, such as Bonobo. Nautilus will use these new advances in the Gnome framework to provide a next generation file manager for the Gnome Project. Nautilus will not only allow you to manage your files, but also to view documents using embedded viewers. The next generation Gnome help system will use nautilus, for example. Once nautilus is released as part of the Gnome desktop, users will notice an incredible difference as it will play a very integral part, and should appeal to newbies and Unix experts alike.
----
In some cases it might be best to release once you have the thing in a somewhat usable state. However, if the project is something that you feel might attract a large number of developers, then no matter what the state of the project, it could be to your advantage to release what you have, set up mailing lists for discusion, and the like. Take a project like Jabber for example. It was to their advantage to announce to the world their existence early so that interested developers could join in the discussion, work on the model, etc.
By making a project open source, you don't just gain hackers adding more lines of code. You also gain the input of philosophers, code evangelists, people with great ideas, artists, and the like.
----
Well I guess I'm already a power user by those standards. I've been using Linux for about 3 years, and Unix for about 5. I own 5 or 6 O'Reilly books, and have been shell scripting ever since I got my first Unix account. So now I need to tackle Perl. Here goes nothing. Guess I should start by brushing up on the finer points of reg-exps. ----
Perhaps you might consider working for a local/small ISP to develop your all-around talents -- not just as a programmer, but
as an admin, customer service rep, troubleshooter, etc. Well-roundedness would be your reward. Money would vary, I
imagine.
Thanks for the advice. I have applied at a variety of companies, but I don't think I had yet considered ISPs. I'll look into that. It would be particularly nice, since I know a lot of ISPs use Linux, which is really the platform where my greatest strengths lie.
----
I find myself in the following situation. I've completed 2 years of my bachelors in Computer Science at Washington University. Due to school expenses and other personal reasons, I have decided to take a break from school and work full-time, perhaps finishing my degree taking night classes. I have some experience programming in C and Java (both in my classes and at two interships), but I am definitely still scratching the surface. Given that I don't have a degree (yet), and I'm still developing my programming skills, how can I go about finding a job that will give me further experience and moderate to decent pay? I cannot demonstrate expertise in a language. What should I emphasize? Anyone else find themself in a similar situation? ----
Slashdot Mirror
What method is in place for assuring the capsule will be opened in 52001 and not some other time? Does the capsule broadcast its presence in 52001 and announce that it is ready to be opened?
----
Gnome was not declared to be the standard. It was declared to be a standard desktop and development environment for Unix and Linux. The Gnome Foundation is trying to set up Gnome as a standard. This does not mean that they are declaring KDE dead or saying it will not play a role. By declaring Gnome as a standard and getting companies like Sun, HP, IBM, OMG, Helix Code, Eazel, etc. involved, they are increasing the scope of the project.
----
No, I did not intentionally leave out Corel, Suse, or any of the other distributions. I just mentioned a few of the big names that came to mind. I left out many distributions that use KDE as the default and many that use Gnome as the default.
And HP and Sun hardly will be the future of the workstations. Sounds more like server manufacturers wanted to define the desktop "standard".
HP and Sun do not just sell servers. They sell many, many UNIX workstations. Both of my previous programming jobs used these workstations. At the Washington University Electronic Radiology Laboratory we used Solaris on Sparc stations. And at Unigraphics Solutions my workstation was an HP-UX box.
----
Do you have data to back this up? Which distributions are you talking about? Caldera, Mandrake (others?) default to KDE. RedHat, TurboLinux, Debian default to Gnome. Soon HP and Sun will default to Gnome instead of CDE. I'm not seeing your point.
Gnome is unstabel to me and very clunky
Try Helix Gnome. It's very stable and a great distribution of the Gnome platform.
The KDE support base also is growing exponentially when compared to Gnomes support base.
What does this statement even mean? You're making a mathematical comparison with no data to base it on. How did you arive at this statement?
----
The Gnome User Interface Improvement Project
Gnome Programming Guidelines
----
fair enough. :)
----
I think perhaps you might need a lesson in basic classical logic. There is a fundamental difference between a choice about sock preference, what to have for dinner, what kind of car you want to drive, et. al, and what you are going to believe is true. The difference is that when you make a decision about what kind of car you are going to drive, for example, you're just deciding what your preference is. There is no wrong answer. When you are deciding what to believe regarding the nature of the universe, the existence of God, if he does exist, what his character is like, etc. there are many wrong answers! You can be completely, utterly, fantastically, desparingly, hopelessly wrong in your views of the nature of the universe. You can't be wrong when you make a decision about what socks to wear.
----
And of course, even within the context of the three main monotheist religions there's a couple questions that set them apart concerning the wishes of the Deity...
You missed the point of what I was saying. Maybe I should have been more specific. I picked one religion, Christianity, as an example to illustrate my point. There either is just one God, or there isn't. You could also pick another religion, as an example and say, there are either many Gods or there are not many Gods. The entire point was to say that religion isn't the same is picking what socks you want to wear on a given morning; it's not just a matter of preference.
----
I would suggest you try Gnome 1.2.X. And I'd also suggest using the Helix Gnome distribution. It installs beautifully on top of RedHat 6.1 and is very stable.
----
I haven't seen many GNOME users talking this way, but if they do, ignore them, dismiss them, don't even acknowledge their statements. I, along with hundreds of other GNOME developers and users that I'm in contact with, are still saying that Gnome brings freedom to the desktop and that KDE and GNOME can coexist. And yes, I'm very excited about the GNOME Foundation!
----
Questions about Truth are not the same as questions about what your favourite colour is, or what would you like for dinner, or do you like your beer on a thoroughly salted napkin or a coaster? Just to pick one religion, Christianity claims that Jesus Christ is God's son...that he existed in space and time. Given the rest of the Biblical narrative, whether or not this is true has an enormous effect on every person that has ever lived, is living, or will live. I'm not even stating whether it's true or not. I'm just saying that the Truth actually does matter. It's not just a matter of preference.
hope that the day after you die is a nice day.
----
There is a difference between creating completely free desktop and development environment and trying to actively kill off another project. Gnome was not started to kill KDE. A completely free system (beer and speech) was and is necessary given their (Miguel and the other original Gnome hackers) and my worldview.
----
That's kind of like saying, "Why would I want a Linux distribution?" Now granted, it's a bit different. A Linux distribution does a lot for you that would be *very* difficult to do on your own if you were not experienced, such as installation, setting up the file system, etc. But the analogy is still a good one. A distribution bundles everything together nicely. You don't just get the applications in their default state as written by each individual developer. You get an integrated set of applications that work well together because they were customized and designed in that way. You also get a desktop environment that is well-tested. If you just upgrade individual packages, that's great, but they won't necessarily work well together. Helix Code does for Gnome, what Red Hat, Mandrake, Debian, et. al. do for the GNU/Linux operating system. Installation and upgrading is easy. You have a set of applications that have been tested to work well together and have been packaged accordingly, placed in one central location and "stamped," if you will, with company's seal of approval. Now, if that means nothing to you, then don't use it. But for a lot of users, this is a dream come true. All they have to do is run the simple installer and they have a complete desktop, development environment at their fingertips. When there are updates and bug fixes all they have to do is run the upgrade utility. All the applications are tested and set up so they are easy to find and launch. Bug Buddy is a click away to report problems they find with the system. As new appications become available, they don't have to go out searching high and low for them. Helix Code adds applications to their distribution regularly, improving the user experience.
----
----
cd ~/helixa t-6 .
rsync -vau --exclude="*.src.rpm" rsync://www.helixcode.com/http/distributions/RedH
rpm -Fvh *.rpm
Seems to work well for me...
----
As far as your comments regarding the Gnome Foundation go, I would encourage you to read the Draft Charter. There's a lot of good stuff in there. It's heavily modeled on the Apache Foundation. The Foundation isn't just a bunch of companies dictating policy. In fact, that's precisely what it isn't. I, for one, happen to be a member of the Gnome Foundation, and I have contributed relatively little. They're very open to letting contributors be voting members, and very opposed to the Foundation being dictated by corporate policy. I'll give you some quotations from the charter to give you an idea of what I'm talking about:
In almost every sense of the word, GNOME is an open project. This is one of our greatest strengths, has always been, and should be the balefire by which we plot our course into the future.
The foundation should not be exclusionary or elitist. Every GNOME contributor, however small his or her contribution, must have the opportunity to participate in determining the direction and actions of the project.
The openness of GNOME has always been a point of pride for us, and an important characteristic which distinguishes us from many of the other open source projects out there. Anyone can become a contributor, write access to our CVS does not involve trial by fire or other masonic rituals, we don't use Access Control Lists, and we've always been exceedingly good about folding talented newcomers in our arms and welcoming them to the project. No resume required.
Participation in the foundation is intended only for those people who are responsible for actual contributions to the software which makes up GNOME. A corporation, organization or individual should not be granted a place in the foundation unless its presence is justified by the merits of its contribution. Money cannot buy influence in the GNOME project: show us the code (or documentation, or translations, or leadership, or webmastering...).
The foundation must act in the best interests of GNOME, independent of influence from outside organizations and corporations. No single entity should have the ability to direct GNOME to its own ends.
I hope some of this helps...
----
Helix Gnome is a Gnome distribution. It's analogous to the concept of Linux distributions, where vendors customize the kernel, integrate everything, do bug fixes, decide what packages they wish to include, and make it easy to install and use. That's what Helix Code is doing for Gnome. They've written utilities like the installer and updater to facilitate the installation/upgrading process. They've decided which packages they wish to include in their distribution of the Gnome Environment. And they're doing application development. They have some of the best Gnome hackers around working for them, writing Evolution (the Fifth Preview Release is out now, btw!), the Helix Setup Tools, and improving the desktop and development environment in general.
----
Have you taken a look at Aqua? Linux has nothing even close to this. Sure, people are working extensions to X involving alpha channeling, etc. But it just isn't there yet.
----
1. Use the Helix Gnome Installer and select which packages you want.
2. Use an ftp client to download all the packages and then just install them all. They'll resolve all the dependency issues for you.
3. Get a distribution that includes the Gnome libraries.
----
Ah, but the real advantage is that no one will have to actually ask you what time it is. They can just ssh into your watch to find out what time it is.
----
The short answer is that Nautilus is Eazel's open source replacement for the current Gnome file manager, gmc. As the Gnome hackers discovered once they were deep into the project, Midnight Commander wasn't the greatest of file managers to use as a starting point for a Gnome file manager. Also, as The Gnome Project has matured, we have new technologies to work with, such as Bonobo. Nautilus will use these new advances in the Gnome framework to provide a next generation file manager for the Gnome Project. Nautilus will not only allow you to manage your files, but also to view documents using embedded viewers. The next generation Gnome help system will use nautilus, for example. Once nautilus is released as part of the Gnome desktop, users will notice an incredible difference as it will play a very integral part, and should appeal to newbies and Unix experts alike.
----
By making a project open source, you don't just gain hackers adding more lines of code. You also gain the input of philosophers, code evangelists, people with great ideas, artists, and the like.
----
Well I guess I'm already a power user by those standards. I've been using Linux for about 3 years, and Unix for about 5. I own 5 or 6 O'Reilly books, and have been shell scripting ever since I got my first Unix account. So now I need to tackle Perl. Here goes nothing. Guess I should start by brushing up on the finer points of reg-exps.
----
Thanks for the advice. I have applied at a variety of companies, but I don't think I had yet considered ISPs. I'll look into that. It would be particularly nice, since I know a lot of ISPs use Linux, which is really the platform where my greatest strengths lie.
----
I find myself in the following situation. I've completed 2 years of my bachelors in Computer Science at Washington University. Due to school expenses and other personal reasons, I have decided to take a break from school and work full-time, perhaps finishing my degree taking night classes. I have some experience programming in C and Java (both in my classes and at two interships), but I am definitely still scratching the surface. Given that I don't have a degree (yet), and I'm still developing my programming skills, how can I go about finding a job that will give me further experience and moderate to decent pay? I cannot demonstrate expertise in a language. What should I emphasize? Anyone else find themself in a similar situation?
----