Your first few sentences pretty much sums up today's world. No PB&J sandwiches at school, because some kid may be allergic. WoD because some folks become addicted. Plenty of medications removed from the market, which are effective and work well, because one out of 100 million folks might die if they take it. IIRC correctly, Seldane was the sinus medication prescribed by a doctor that could cause heart stoppage in a very small percent of users who had heart murmurers. So instead of simple solution, don't prescribe for patients with heart murmurers, the government banned it for all folks, because of a sub-set of an already small sub-set. Let's avoid delving into such things as airport security, DHS, and other topics demonstrating the exact same ideas.
Once again, you are claiming snatching folks up and subjecting them to harsh physical interrogations as being inefficient. And attempting to set up a strawman claiming I disagree.
I stated, twice IIRC, that torture does work. If you are going to go to the trouble to engage in what works, then your targets are going to have the information you want to know.
And as far as the detainees at gitmo, none of them were tortured in the sense I describe. They were basically brutalized and physically hurt, not tortured in the sense of extracting, verifying and stripping them of every piece of knowledge they may have.
Thankfully, there are some few folks in the US government that will draw a line occasionally and say certain things are just wrong. Not as often or as for as much stuff as they should, but enough that the torture I described would be very unlikely to happen under our government.
You are the one trying to cloud the issue by interjecting the idea that the subject doesn't know the information and other attempts. Give it up and call it quits. Plus, I have no geek card to give up. I am not a geek, but I do learn from this site and get a great deal of amusement from a lot of posts. Raw and uncensored is the way to read/.
I find the articles about my chosen field in which I have the most experience (HVAC/R)to be decent history lessons and decent explanations of what goes on, with no real use though. Not going to use wikipedia to fix you AC or furnace. And even if you follow their citations, you still are not going to find the information needed to fix them. And in my new field, wikipedia would be useless except for somewhat accurate, but not quite, definitions of terms, with no knowledge of how they are derived, used or even found. So if you are an addicted felon residing with a correctional facility, wikipedia ain't gonna get you clean or functioning.
No, that is why the disclaimer is that it is not easy, quick or cheap. Any and all information has to be verified, every time. And brute force pain is never as efficient as using what causes the subject the most fear or torment mentally, rather than emotionally. You are thinking pliers and blowtorches in a dimly lit basement, to extract solid information in a short period of time when it is actually usable. That type doesn't work that well. I am speaking of methodical, relentless psychological torture done over months and years, where the victim is relieved of any and all information, by trained professionals who use every trick and technique available. Good analogy is you are thinking of dynamite to blow up the rock, while I am using water to slow erode it away. My way will work, every time, but the costs and ROI is usually not worth it, and it is never quick.
I always fill out every marketing survey I get, along with political ones also. I use fake data, fucked up ideas and thoughts and lie like a politician combined with a lawyer and a whore. They ant data? I'll give them data, just not good data.
Pair of Sperry topsiders, bought and worn once or twice a week since purchased. Bought at age 20. I am now 41 and wore them yesterday.Keep them clean, keep them polished and oiled occasionally and they last forever it seems. Have a leather Brooks riding jacket that I bought at 17. Still have it too. Little worse for wear as the leather flexes much more than shoes, but still wearable and still fits. As the old saw goes, buy quality and pay more, but it lasts longer and is cheaper over time. Problem is today, how do you find quality?
Eh, gotta agree. I tend to look at purchases over a base sum several times, before deciding to purchase. I needed a new monitor a few years ago and looked for one for about 4 months, before I went to big box electronic store and checked out some in person. Settled on one, but walked around store to make sure and found 42 inch hi-def LCD TV, floor sample, with all the inputs for 25 bucks cheaper than the 24 inch monitor. Bought it instead. Taking time to decide pays off sometimes.
So you say. In reality, torture does work wonders, and provides really solid information. Problem is that true torture is not quick, easy or cheap. It requires a great deal of time, energy and information. Everyone has some breaking point and finding that point using the right key is paramount. While some folks might resist physical pain for long periods of time, the same person may break within minutes if subjected to sensory deprivation or spiders or being in very tight confinement. Threat of death might not phase a person, but the threat of their loved ones' deaths or their pet's death might break them immediatley. So the time it takes, probing for the weakness and figuring out the right pressure is what makes torture ineffective, especially in time sensitive matters, not the "inability" to extract the information.
Hell, I can't fly. Seems for some reason I am on the famed "do not fly list". Fuck \'em, I would rather drive anyway, less BS security and more real security.
Assuming you are an American, you make pipe bombs, which are simple and pretty reliable; You nestle them inside a couple of large shopping bags, filled with boxes, cleverly gift wrapped and filled with nails and ball bearings. Go to the local mall at xmas, and set down near the santa display and trigger bombs. Or go to the local substation and with a.22 rifle, shoot off the insulators of several of the transformers, blacking out larges swathes of a city. Or build and set several bombs, in a coordinated attack on several bridges on the interstate system in several states and detonate. Announce through media there are more. Another one is set off small packages of flour, coupled with a commercial grade fire cracker and announce this was anthrax, or a neuro-toxin or elbola or any other nice nasty disease or poison. For real fun, go around various cities and pop cops in the head while they are parked doing paperwork. Terrorism can be very ugly if a little thought is taken and the risk is often very low. And there is no real way to prevent it, if the attackers are determined enough. Blow up a school or two. Announce that other schools have bombs planted. All of these things spread panic far and wide, and the media is your ally. Five people, each planting two land mines on I40 in five states, with public release of a tape saying there is more, would shut it down for a while. All kinds of tricks that can be done.
I think that we have lived a very sheltered and peaceful life here in America. I also think it is going to come to an end sooner, rather than later. Cops have already gone from friendly guys who chase bad guys and are there to help, to scary dudes in paramilitary gear and carrying assault weapons. Their tactics have changed also. Won't be long before folks start cop hunting. It won't take but a little and every cop will become a marked target and their families. And then we will see blood in the streets and real civil unrest.
Every member of our armed forces have a legal duty to refuse to follow unconstitutional orders. The congress is expected to follow the Constitution and to pass laws within its scope. There may be minor differences and the courts are there to right wrongs, but any congressman that voted for the Patriot act and any president who signed it should be taken out and hung until dead, by their necks, for high treason.
Mod this dude right. I don't agree with a lot RP says or believes, but he stands where he stands, and he stands there pretty fucking solid. He doesn't curry favor from corporations, constituents,other politicians or anyone in fact. And his area of Texas loves him. When the repubs jury rigged texas, they ripped his area to shreds, IIRC, and he still got re-elected in a landslide. RP does have backbone and a set of balls. I voted for him, as I wasn't voting for a nigger, and damn sure wasn't voting for a moron who chose palin as being one heartbeat away from the presidency.
Hmm, try some of that sludge they burn in big boilers and such. It has to be preheated using an oil or gas burner to get liquid enough to catch on fire. And using a pump and atomizer to light #2 fuel oil is a little sketchy. Oil furnaces (residential) use a 100lbs per square inch pressure along with an atomizer and roughly 50-100k volt sparks from a transformer about the size of two adult fists, powered by a 110v AC current. And forced air to add enough oxygen. The flame is usually about 10-12" long and shaped roughly like a cone(although there are several different patterns according to manufacturer, such as hollow, semi-hollow, round, etc). Oil furnaces, while they work well, are not what you would call efficient for running a car or small robot skimmer. Maybe if they were steam powered and the oil burner was powering the boiler. But still, heavy and does not play well with sea water.
Uh, because you can fit two or three open windows at once on them. Like a reference, the work in progress, another references and maybe a general fuck off window, where you can watch a movie, TV or anything else. I run a TV card in my primary computer and often have half a monitor on the news, with a general surf window on the same monitor, while working on the other monitor.
When I was in the 7th grade, I was learning advanced infantry techniques, how to set an ambush, how to field improvise explosives and booby traps, and how to wreak havoc on supply chains and supply dumps. We also learned how to eat bugs, and survive with very minimal equipment and supplies. I kid you not, our instructor was named Sgt.Doom, and he was a Ranger with extensive time spent in Vietnam, along with other "unnamed" ugly places (his way of reference, not mine). He also taught us ways to silently kill or incapacitate sentries and other targets, how to carry weapons not concealed per se, but unobtrusively and other exotic tricks. Surprisingly, only a few of us students ended up in prison. Out of my class of 40 or so, only 8 of us ended up as wards of the state prison system. They ended up retiring him not long after I got out of school.
Pelosi and Cheney, naked and with strap-ons just for you. Give Cheney a towel and Pelosi a garden hose and you have violated every possible human rights law in the world.
Now that is a awful fate to wish upon your very worst enemies.
And how long before every idiot doctor starts prescribing these drugs and cause them to be just as ineffective as the anti_TB drugs are now? TB kills not only the poor in 3rd countries, it has been steadily increasing in the US prison populations and killing prison guards. Not just prisoners, but guards. Who do have health insurance, who do seek and receive treatment and who are still dying. Fuck elbola, it kills very few people every year. A minute number. TB is killing Americans. Let's cure that first.
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Your first few sentences pretty much sums up today's world. No PB&J sandwiches at school, because some kid may be allergic. WoD because some folks become addicted. Plenty of medications removed from the market, which are effective and work well, because one out of 100 million folks might die if they take it. IIRC correctly, Seldane was the sinus medication prescribed by a doctor that could cause heart stoppage in a very small percent of users who had heart murmurers. So instead of simple solution, don't prescribe for patients with heart murmurers, the government banned it for all folks, because of a sub-set of an already small sub-set. Let's avoid delving into such things as airport security, DHS, and other topics demonstrating the exact same ideas.
Once again, you are claiming snatching folks up and subjecting them to harsh physical interrogations as being inefficient. And attempting to set up a strawman claiming I disagree. I stated, twice IIRC, that torture does work. If you are going to go to the trouble to engage in what works, then your targets are going to have the information you want to know. And as far as the detainees at gitmo, none of them were tortured in the sense I describe. They were basically brutalized and physically hurt, not tortured in the sense of extracting, verifying and stripping them of every piece of knowledge they may have. Thankfully, there are some few folks in the US government that will draw a line occasionally and say certain things are just wrong. Not as often or as for as much stuff as they should, but enough that the torture I described would be very unlikely to happen under our government. You are the one trying to cloud the issue by interjecting the idea that the subject doesn't know the information and other attempts. Give it up and call it quits. Plus, I have no geek card to give up. I am not a geek, but I do learn from this site and get a great deal of amusement from a lot of posts. Raw and uncensored is the way to read /.
I find the articles about my chosen field in which I have the most experience (HVAC/R)to be decent history lessons and decent explanations of what goes on, with no real use though. Not going to use wikipedia to fix you AC or furnace. And even if you follow their citations, you still are not going to find the information needed to fix them. And in my new field, wikipedia would be useless except for somewhat accurate, but not quite, definitions of terms, with no knowledge of how they are derived, used or even found. So if you are an addicted felon residing with a correctional facility, wikipedia ain't gonna get you clean or functioning.
No, that is why the disclaimer is that it is not easy, quick or cheap. Any and all information has to be verified, every time. And brute force pain is never as efficient as using what causes the subject the most fear or torment mentally, rather than emotionally. You are thinking pliers and blowtorches in a dimly lit basement, to extract solid information in a short period of time when it is actually usable. That type doesn't work that well. I am speaking of methodical, relentless psychological torture done over months and years, where the victim is relieved of any and all information, by trained professionals who use every trick and technique available. Good analogy is you are thinking of dynamite to blow up the rock, while I am using water to slow erode it away. My way will work, every time, but the costs and ROI is usually not worth it, and it is never quick.
I always fill out every marketing survey I get, along with political ones also. I use fake data, fucked up ideas and thoughts and lie like a politician combined with a lawyer and a whore. They ant data? I'll give them data, just not good data.
Pair of Sperry topsiders, bought and worn once or twice a week since purchased. Bought at age 20. I am now 41 and wore them yesterday.Keep them clean, keep them polished and oiled occasionally and they last forever it seems. Have a leather Brooks riding jacket that I bought at 17. Still have it too. Little worse for wear as the leather flexes much more than shoes, but still wearable and still fits. As the old saw goes, buy quality and pay more, but it lasts longer and is cheaper over time. Problem is today, how do you find quality?
Eh, gotta agree. I tend to look at purchases over a base sum several times, before deciding to purchase. I needed a new monitor a few years ago and looked for one for about 4 months, before I went to big box electronic store and checked out some in person. Settled on one, but walked around store to make sure and found 42 inch hi-def LCD TV, floor sample, with all the inputs for 25 bucks cheaper than the 24 inch monitor. Bought it instead. Taking time to decide pays off sometimes.
How bout setting your browser to clear cookies, run ABP and no script, and never see any ads? Works fine for me.
So you say. In reality, torture does work wonders, and provides really solid information. Problem is that true torture is not quick, easy or cheap. It requires a great deal of time, energy and information. Everyone has some breaking point and finding that point using the right key is paramount. While some folks might resist physical pain for long periods of time, the same person may break within minutes if subjected to sensory deprivation or spiders or being in very tight confinement. Threat of death might not phase a person, but the threat of their loved ones' deaths or their pet's death might break them immediatley. So the time it takes, probing for the weakness and figuring out the right pressure is what makes torture ineffective, especially in time sensitive matters, not the "inability" to extract the information.
Hell, I can't fly. Seems for some reason I am on the famed "do not fly list". Fuck \'em, I would rather drive anyway, less BS security and more real security.
Assuming you are an American, you make pipe bombs, which are simple and pretty reliable; You nestle them inside a couple of large shopping bags, filled with boxes, cleverly gift wrapped and filled with nails and ball bearings. Go to the local mall at xmas, and set down near the santa display and trigger bombs. Or go to the local substation and with a .22 rifle, shoot off the insulators of several of the transformers, blacking out larges swathes of a city. Or build and set several bombs, in a coordinated attack on several bridges on the interstate system in several states and detonate. Announce through media there are more. Another one is set off small packages of flour, coupled with a commercial grade fire cracker and announce this was anthrax, or a neuro-toxin or elbola or any other nice nasty disease or poison. For real fun, go around various cities and pop cops in the head while they are parked doing paperwork. Terrorism can be very ugly if a little thought is taken and the risk is often very low. And there is no real way to prevent it, if the attackers are determined enough. Blow up a school or two. Announce that other schools have bombs planted. All of these things spread panic far and wide, and the media is your ally. Five people, each planting two land mines on I40 in five states, with public release of a tape saying there is more, would shut it down for a while. All kinds of tricks that can be done.
I think that we have lived a very sheltered and peaceful life here in America. I also think it is going to come to an end sooner, rather than later. Cops have already gone from friendly guys who chase bad guys and are there to help, to scary dudes in paramilitary gear and carrying assault weapons. Their tactics have changed also. Won't be long before folks start cop hunting. It won't take but a little and every cop will become a marked target and their families. And then we will see blood in the streets and real civil unrest.
Every member of our armed forces have a legal duty to refuse to follow unconstitutional orders. The congress is expected to follow the Constitution and to pass laws within its scope. There may be minor differences and the courts are there to right wrongs, but any congressman that voted for the Patriot act and any president who signed it should be taken out and hung until dead, by their necks, for high treason.
Mod this dude right. I don't agree with a lot RP says or believes, but he stands where he stands, and he stands there pretty fucking solid. He doesn't curry favor from corporations, constituents,other politicians or anyone in fact. And his area of Texas loves him. When the repubs jury rigged texas, they ripped his area to shreds, IIRC, and he still got re-elected in a landslide. RP does have backbone and a set of balls. I voted for him, as I wasn't voting for a nigger, and damn sure wasn't voting for a moron who chose palin as being one heartbeat away from the presidency.
Hmm, try some of that sludge they burn in big boilers and such. It has to be preheated using an oil or gas burner to get liquid enough to catch on fire. And using a pump and atomizer to light #2 fuel oil is a little sketchy. Oil furnaces (residential) use a 100lbs per square inch pressure along with an atomizer and roughly 50-100k volt sparks from a transformer about the size of two adult fists, powered by a 110v AC current. And forced air to add enough oxygen. The flame is usually about 10-12" long and shaped roughly like a cone(although there are several different patterns according to manufacturer, such as hollow, semi-hollow, round, etc). Oil furnaces, while they work well, are not what you would call efficient for running a car or small robot skimmer. Maybe if they were steam powered and the oil burner was powering the boiler. But still, heavy and does not play well with sea water.
Hell, a full five gallon bucket of gasoline is hard to set on fire if you throw matches into it. Now if the fumes catch though, not so pretty.
Uh, because you can fit two or three open windows at once on them. Like a reference, the work in progress, another references and maybe a general fuck off window, where you can watch a movie, TV or anything else. I run a TV card in my primary computer and often have half a monitor on the news, with a general surf window on the same monitor, while working on the other monitor.
Borg Cube? Much bigger, it appears, than a death star.
Who was greedo? Being I saw Star Wars when it first came out and that was a long time ago.
This is slashdot. It was a slow news day, three days ago. Hence today's stories suck.
that was funny.
When I was in the 7th grade, I was learning advanced infantry techniques, how to set an ambush, how to field improvise explosives and booby traps, and how to wreak havoc on supply chains and supply dumps. We also learned how to eat bugs, and survive with very minimal equipment and supplies. I kid you not, our instructor was named Sgt.Doom, and he was a Ranger with extensive time spent in Vietnam, along with other "unnamed" ugly places (his way of reference, not mine). He also taught us ways to silently kill or incapacitate sentries and other targets, how to carry weapons not concealed per se, but unobtrusively and other exotic tricks. Surprisingly, only a few of us students ended up in prison. Out of my class of 40 or so, only 8 of us ended up as wards of the state prison system. They ended up retiring him not long after I got out of school.
Pelosi and Cheney, naked and with strap-ons just for you. Give Cheney a towel and Pelosi a garden hose and you have violated every possible human rights law in the world. Now that is a awful fate to wish upon your very worst enemies.
Someone remove the flamebait mod on parent. Disagree does not equal flamebait.
And how long before every idiot doctor starts prescribing these drugs and cause them to be just as ineffective as the anti_TB drugs are now? TB kills not only the poor in 3rd countries, it has been steadily increasing in the US prison populations and killing prison guards. Not just prisoners, but guards. Who do have health insurance, who do seek and receive treatment and who are still dying. Fuck elbola, it kills very few people every year. A minute number. TB is killing Americans. Let's cure that first.