It doesn't cost the real ISP much at all to transfer data, why should the end users pay?
A common misconception. But reality bites, hard. Routers cost real money. How many $40 a month customers does it take to recoup a $50000 investment? And that's only one of your routers....
Bandwidth costs real money too. Buying in bulk makes it cheaper, but it's still a very substantial cost. Amerikans think that bandwidth grows on trees, but that 15-18c a megabyte figure you see bandied about isn't just an obscure Australian joke you know.
Next time you feel like wasting a lot of money, become an Australian ISP:-)
A per megabyte fee is NOT the way to go, not in the slightest.
I don't understand. If you don't pay for the stuff you download, who's going to?
"Oh the ISP has surely got great discount rates and peering agreements and the like."
Right. Why can't anyone see the forest? It's really simple:
Flat-rate unmetered internet access is not a viable business plan.
Not here in Australia. Seems to me that the writing's on the wall over in the US too. Time will tell.
But anyway, the conjecture is useless. I work for a company that provides metered pay-per-megabyte plans and guess what?
People are still signing up. They're paying their bills and using the service.
Every time one of the other players suddenly realises that Flat-rate doesn't work and folds/changes plans, we get a whole heap of churn customers.
Oh, and next time you're filling up your cars petrol tank, ask the attendant about their unlimited petrol plans.
Re:Cool, we just need to add encryption
on
VoIP at $15 a Pop
·
· Score: 1
This won't work.
Expansion - this may work, but it will more easily suck than without.
Typically VoIP is done via UDP. Packet loss hurts quality, but small gaps in speech are able to be 'filled in' by your brain to an extent.
Delayed packets are simply thrown out. Think about it and you'll see why.
SSH uses TCP, plus an encryption overhead. TCP means that suddenly, packets CANNOT BE LOST. You might think this is a good thing, but it's not. Your mom's hardly likely to appreciate the wonderfulness of TCP while waiting for it to ACK and NAK enough lost packets for your voice to tell her 'I need some cash'.
If you are shooting at f/16 (a fairly deep depth of field) on a sunny day you will have a shutter speed of (about) 1/1000. The units program claims 1 mile is 5280 feet (if I remember how to read it's output), so 70mph is 369600 feet per second. Or "only" 369.6 feet per 1/1000th. You could open up to f/8 or f/5.6 and get shutter times more like 1/4000, but not much depth of field. At 1/4000th things "only" move 100 feet or so while the shutter is open.
Errr, did you even run your maths by a simple sanity check? Even in America, I don't think there are many cars which can travel 369600 feet per second.....
You are stealing somebody else's resources, and you advertise the fact on a public forum?
When you signed up for uni, do you remember reading the bit that said it was your God given right to utilize someone elses network to get you files of indeterminate copyright status?
Didn't think so.
Next time you are walking past an unlocked car, make sure you steal it because it's "the fault of whoever is silly enough to leave an unlocked car lying there".
How about actually going to uni to do that learning stuff, get your degree, get a job and pay for the right of using the network, like everyone else?
Anyway, back in my day, I had a Gigi terminal (I think) to do my gfx on. I still remember sneakernetting jpegs back from school (where I had Usenet) to my home (where my Amiga could view them, in truecolour; the machines at school hadn't yet even discovered 256 colours).
Ha!
In my day I used to take home the still-uuencoded files on floppy disk, as the most advanced newsreader we had was rn (nn was something those snooty students at the other campus had), and no local uudecoder.
Yes, I used to agonize on wasting the 8th bit of every byte on my floppy disks.
I like this idea too. A private network of people, with some 'internet-like' services inside. Things like email (maybe gatewayed to the internet, maybe not), local DNS, web, file sharings.
Put together a few clever CGI's, maybe an IRCd and you could have yourself a nice little wireless network of people, independent of the Internet. People would download interesting things from their own Internet connection, and make them available to the neighbourhood at no cost. A mini-napster if you will.
Like others, I miss the community aspect of the big, bad Internet and I think it could be rekindled somewhat with projects like this. Also, here in Australia it isn't feasible to share a broadband connection with other people, the AUP and bandwidth charges make it illegal or too expensive. Not too mention the carrier laws coming into play, there are many issues to resolve when you move Internet traffic over the air.
There are some groups here in Australia attempting things like this, see http://www.air.net.au.
I see a lot people saying "its not going to happen", "quit now before you loose your money", "the ISP market is all wrapped up".... these are all probably true if you are in the US.... the Australian market appears to be wide open from what I see.
Umm, yeah right.
There's this little problem. It's called bandwidth. In Australia it costs lots money. Think of a high number, then triple it. I'm serious.
Then along with that, this poster is thinking about a regional area. Even worse. That number you thought of before? Double it.
As other people have said, you needed to do this eight years ago. You might get something out of it in a regional area, but given the setup and ongoing bandwidth costs, you'd have to have a lot of money to burn before you started to break even.
I work in a 'real Unix shop' and I collegue uses pico for everything. He's no dummy, in fact he does a large percentage of our CGI coding.
At first I laughed at him, but he gets the job done. Incidentally, he does know vi and can get around in it but find pico more productive. I can't see it myself:-)
Slashdot Mirror
A common misconception. But reality bites, hard. Routers cost real money. How many $40 a month customers does it take to recoup a $50000 investment? And that's only one of your routers....
Bandwidth costs real money too. Buying in bulk makes it cheaper, but it's still a very substantial cost. Amerikans think that bandwidth grows on trees, but that 15-18c a megabyte figure you see bandied about isn't just an obscure Australian joke you know.
Next time you feel like wasting a lot of money, become an Australian ISP :-)
I don't understand. If you don't pay for the stuff you download, who's going to?
"Oh the ISP has surely got great discount rates and peering agreements and the like."
Right. Why can't anyone see the forest? It's really simple:
Flat-rate unmetered internet access is not a viable business plan.
Not here in Australia. Seems to me that the writing's on the wall over in the US too. Time will tell.
But anyway, the conjecture is useless. I work for a company that provides metered pay-per-megabyte plans and guess what?
People are still signing up. They're paying their bills and using the service.
Every time one of the other players suddenly realises that Flat-rate doesn't work and folds/changes plans, we get a whole heap of churn customers.
Oh, and next time you're filling up your cars petrol tank, ask the attendant about their unlimited petrol plans.
This won't work.
Expansion - this may work, but it will more easily suck than without.
Typically VoIP is done via UDP. Packet loss hurts quality, but small gaps in speech are able to be 'filled in' by your brain to an extent.
Delayed packets are simply thrown out. Think about it and you'll see why.
SSH uses TCP, plus an encryption overhead. TCP means that suddenly, packets CANNOT BE LOST. You might think this is a good thing, but it's not. Your mom's hardly likely to appreciate the wonderfulness of TCP while waiting for it to ACK and NAK enough lost packets for your voice to tell her 'I need some cash'.
Real IPSEC is the only easy answer here.
Windows and Unix clients available. Bit of a learning curve, but very rewarding.
Try Xpilot today!
MS make things that don't work. I should have thought that was obvious.
<boggles>
Errr, did you even run your maths by a simple sanity check? Even in America, I don't think there are many cars which can travel 369600 feet per second.....
You are stealing somebody else's resources, and you advertise the fact on a public forum?
When you signed up for uni, do you remember reading the bit that said it was your God given right to utilize someone elses network to get you files of indeterminate copyright status?
Didn't think so.
Next time you are walking past an unlocked car, make sure you steal it because it's "the fault of whoever is silly enough to leave an unlocked car lying there".
How about actually going to uni to do that learning stuff, get your degree, get a job and pay for the right of using the network, like everyone else?
Not to mention that null-modem multi-player was not available in the initial release.... maybe you made a mistake there as well.
In terms of portupgrade - you need to look at the -R and -r options to recompile dependant libs.
Portupgrade is simply wonderful, and I won't be surprised if it becomes part of the base system (like mergemaster did).
Ha!
In my day I used to take home the still-uuencoded files on floppy disk, as the most advanced newsreader we had was rn (nn was something those snooty students at the other campus had), and no local uudecoder.
Yes, I used to agonize on wasting the 8th bit of every byte on my floppy disks.
Put together a few clever CGI's, maybe an IRCd and you could have yourself a nice little wireless network of people, independent of the Internet. People would download interesting things from their own Internet connection, and make them available to the neighbourhood at no cost. A mini-napster if you will.
Like others, I miss the community aspect of the big, bad Internet and I think it could be rekindled somewhat with projects like this. Also, here in Australia it isn't feasible to share a broadband connection with other people, the AUP and bandwidth charges make it illegal or too expensive. Not too mention the carrier laws coming into play, there are many issues to resolve when you move Internet traffic over the air.
There are some groups here in Australia attempting things like this, see http://www.air.net.au.
Umm, yeah right.
There's this little problem. It's called bandwidth. In Australia it costs lots money. Think of a high number, then triple it. I'm serious.
Then along with that, this poster is thinking about a regional area. Even worse. That number you thought of before? Double it. As other people have said, you needed to do this eight years ago. You might get something out of it in a regional area, but given the setup and ongoing bandwidth costs, you'd have to have a lot of money to burn before you started to break even.
I work in a 'real Unix shop' and I collegue uses pico for everything. He's no dummy, in fact he does a large percentage of our CGI coding.
At first I laughed at him, but he gets the job done. Incidentally, he does know vi and can get around in it but find pico more productive. I can't see it myself :-)