No, I don't believe IP is valid. I download music and movies because I don't respect the practices of the RIAA and the MPAA. I'm both a musician and a programmer so I could just as easily be affected by warez. And no, its not 'only valid when it's in the same field I work in'. Like I said, I warez apps/games all the time. I warez music all the time. I work in both industries. But I disagree with stealing source code for an app. You may not look at it any differently because its all bits right? But in my mind there's definitely a different between pirating a binary and stealing the source.
As far as the 'when it suits me' line. I'm allowed to have my opinion. To me downloading a binary is about the same as taking a picture of a Picasso. Taking (and using) the source is more along the lines of stealing the original painting.
To answer the question of why I downloaded in the first place (from another post): I was excited in a perverted way about seeing someone else's code, especially for an advanced 3D engine. Another part of me wanted to know if this was just a hoax. How was I to know it was the real thing when everything I had read up until that point said it was most likely a hoax. After I realized it was the real thing, I deleted it.
There's an awful lot of code in there for them just to be releasing it for free. Even if a ton has changed since that version (which doubtlessly it has) it's still enough of a groundwork for someone to do some signifcant development with. It wouldn't be worth it monetarily for them.
Yup, you're probably right. However, I deleted it from my hard drive, and if it came down to it they would have a REAL hard time proving that I ever had a copy of it. (It's not nearly as hard to permanently erase files as some would have you believe.) Honestly I hope to be licensing that engine from them at some point and have no interest in doing them any harm. However, if they were to prosecute me for downloading a copy of something that somebody else leaked I would instantly lose all respect for them and would never dream of licensing.
Which do you think would be more worthwhile for them? To prosecute someone who did nothing more than download a leak for the purpose of validating that it was the real thing and get nothing out of it except for see me put in jail. Or to have someone who has serious intentions to develop a game based on their technology someday possibly fork over a hefty licensing fee.
Yea, and that's what it appears to be to me. I saw alot of remnants of things that lead me to believe that they definitely didn't start from scratch when developing Source.
In the dlls directory is pretty much all of the equivalant stuff thats in the HL1 SDK. I thought it was fake at first after looking in there, then I started to look through all the physics code. All of the ragdoll type stuff that there's no way is in HL1 and the code isn't faked. Then I checked out the engine directory. Like I said in a post futher down, the full occlusion system and node management is all there, I didn't have time to check for the actual rendering code because I had to get back to work. But I'm thoroughly convinced that it's real. I even feel bad for downloading it now because I know if someone stole my code I'd be way more than pissed about it. Let em steal a binary all day, but when they have the code it's a whole new level. This is corporate espionage at its finest.
Ok... It's real. It looks very incomplete, pretty old, but real nonetheless. There's functional code for things that never existed in HL1. (I assume to be functional at least, obviously I can't compile it but if this is a joke played by someone who just wrote a bunch of code to try to make it look real then they spent a LOT of time doing it.)
Now however, I have come to the conclusion that this IS an SDK, and not the full source of their engine.
Err, I take that back. Its the engine. Just found the occlusion system and the node management.
I feel for Valve about now. This sucks. I'm deleting the source just out of respect.:(
That's quite a big deal to have leaked. Unfortunately the article is down to I can't RTFA, but is this just the SDK source code or the whole friggin thing?
If it's the whole thing think of how much jeopardy that puts them in with the people they've licensed technology from (such as the Havok physics engine, etc). Again I say, Wow.
Wow.. Nice use of the ZDNet redirect. Luckily I read the reply to your post first before clicking. Talk about non-work safe.
Re:Why do you think Bush gave them tax cuts?
on
Tech Rich Get Richer
·
· Score: 1
But you're missing the point. Thats not what the Democrats were proposing. They were proposing not that the cheap seats get cheaper, but that the people sitting in the box seats pay to have people sit in them.
Re:Three Major Vulnerabilities
on
Windows ATMs by 2005
·
· Score: 5, Informative
Trust me when I say that you have no clue what you're talking about. I work for a bank. We communicate with our ATMs over a dedicated line. Having an extremely stripped down version of Windows on an ATM really isn't going to make it a whole lot less secure. It'll still be the same way its always been: The easiest way to get money from an ATM is just to take the ATM. (No, I'm not kidding. We've had that happen a couple of times.)
Maintenance staff does not have 'root' access to the system. They have the ability to open the safe to place more money in, as well as to restock the paper feed for receipts. Thats it. If they're going to take money they're going to do it from the safe, then they'll get caught by doing so. We have one ATM technician and even he doesn't have 'root' access to the boxes.
Please do a little research before opening your mouth.
Re:Why do you think Bush gave them tax cuts?
on
Tech Rich Get Richer
·
· Score: 2, Insightful
But those tax cuts come out of the pockets of those who are better off. Since when is that fair? This is America. We aren't (or shouldn't be at least) a communistic society. That's the whole point of capitalism.
Re:Why do you think Bush gave them tax cuts?
on
Tech Rich Get Richer
·
· Score: 2, Insightful
Let me give you a little illustration about your so-called tax cuts for the rich. The Democrats proposed a new solution to taxes to solve the "problem" of tax-cuts for the rich. This illustration is borrowed from someone on the radio (can't remember who). Also please keep in mind that these numbers are fictional and just for illustration purposes.
Ok, so 50,000 people buy tickets to a baseball game. 1,000 of those people bought box seats for $300. 9,000 of those people bought really good seats right near the dugout for $150. 15,000 people bought average tickets for $75. 25,000 people bought nosebleed tickets for $25.
Well, wouldn't ya know it, the game gets cancelled. The owners of the stadium are Democrats and pass out refunds the same way Democrats want to hand out tax cuts: The 25,000 people get a refund of $50. $25 more than they actually payed for a ticket. Awesome eh? The 15,000 people get a refund of $100. Hey, they get $25 more too... The 9,000 people get a refund of only $125. What? They don't get all of their money back? The 1,000 people? Well, they don't get a refund. Instead, they pay $475 apiece.
That folks, is the math of democrats. Yes, its overexaggerating and silly, but its also a bit serious. Of course the rich are going to get more money back out of a tax cut. They paid more in the first place.
So have you digressed in age since then? I'm usually not a grammar/spelling nazi but that was the most horridly constructed paragraph/run-on sentence I have ever seen in my life. Please do the world a favor and shoot the person who taught you how to write.
BS... I can identify a monitor's refresh rate by glancing at it up to 120hz.. Seriously. The monitor I'm using right now only has a 75hz refresh rate at 1280x1024 which bugs the crap outta me. Just because your eye's can't see the difference between 60hz and 120hz doesn't mean others can't. (And actually its a curse more than a blessing... Walking up to a luser's computer running at 60hz because they don't know any better gives me frequent headaches)
No, thats called "You're an idiot..." He said he "spent his own money". That Implies buying those 10,000 albums he just gave out. Last time I checked giving away something that you bought (especially if its still shrink wrapped) isn't "ILLEGALLY DISTRIBUTING FILES". Read a little more closely before you start flaming.
Ahh see, but (before I changed it to the new sig) it was actually a joke... You have also just proved you have no sense of humor. Let me restate the sig for you (since it is no longer my sig): "I voted democrat because I was sick of the way republicans were doing things. Which turns out to be about like shooting yourself in the head to cure a cold."
Now class, today we're going to learn about a little thing I like to call "Sarcasm". Can you say it with me? "Saaaar-casss-mmm"
Just in case you didn't catch it this time, I'm actually a Republican. I don't always agree with everything the party does, but its a heckuva lot better than Democrat's. Mainly because I think killing unborn children is wrong, and there are few Democrats who share that stance.
*ring ring* Hello? Is this AKAImBatman? Yes, I'd like to inform you that the article you're posting on is about the very technology that you're stating doesn't exist in MS-land....
No, but seriously, dotnet is all about versioning.. You could have as many different builds of the same software in the GAC as you wanted. Dotnet allows XCopy deployment without registering components, etc and a pretty darn decent versioning management system. Heck, with ASP.NET you can deploy a new version of your dll's for your web app while the app is still running and any new requests will use the new dlls while any still-running requests at the time of deployment will continue to use the old dll's until the request is finished processing.
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No, I don't believe IP is valid. I download music and movies because I don't respect the practices of the RIAA and the MPAA. I'm both a musician and a programmer so I could just as easily be affected by warez. And no, its not 'only valid when it's in the same field I work in'. Like I said, I warez apps/games all the time. I warez music all the time. I work in both industries. But I disagree with stealing source code for an app. You may not look at it any differently because its all bits right? But in my mind there's definitely a different between pirating a binary and stealing the source.
As far as the 'when it suits me' line. I'm allowed to have my opinion. To me downloading a binary is about the same as taking a picture of a Picasso. Taking (and using) the source is more along the lines of stealing the original painting.
To answer the question of why I downloaded in the first place (from another post): I was excited in a perverted way about seeing someone else's code, especially for an advanced 3D engine. Another part of me wanted to know if this was just a hoax. How was I to know it was the real thing when everything I had read up until that point said it was most likely a hoax. After I realized it was the real thing, I deleted it.
There's an awful lot of code in there for them just to be releasing it for free. Even if a ton has changed since that version (which doubtlessly it has) it's still enough of a groundwork for someone to do some signifcant development with. It wouldn't be worth it monetarily for them.
Yup, you're probably right. However, I deleted it from my hard drive, and if it came down to it they would have a REAL hard time proving that I ever had a copy of it. (It's not nearly as hard to permanently erase files as some would have you believe.) Honestly I hope to be licensing that engine from them at some point and have no interest in doing them any harm. However, if they were to prosecute me for downloading a copy of something that somebody else leaked I would instantly lose all respect for them and would never dream of licensing.
Which do you think would be more worthwhile for them? To prosecute someone who did nothing more than download a leak for the purpose of validating that it was the real thing and get nothing out of it except for see me put in jail. Or to have someone who has serious intentions to develop a game based on their technology someday possibly fork over a hefty licensing fee.
In response to the AC who called me a pussy:
I'm a coder. I'll download MP3's all day long, I warez, whatever. But source code? Thats a no-no.
Besides, who's the pussy posting as an AC?
Yea, and that's what it appears to be to me. I saw alot of remnants of things that lead me to believe that they definitely didn't start from scratch when developing Source.
Eh, while of course it's not impossible, alot of HL2 is based on DX9.
Nice one. =)
My opinion is that it's real. See above a couple posts.
In the dlls directory is pretty much all of the equivalant stuff thats in the HL1 SDK. I thought it was fake at first after looking in there, then I started to look through all the physics code. All of the ragdoll type stuff that there's no way is in HL1 and the code isn't faked. Then I checked out the engine directory. Like I said in a post futher down, the full occlusion system and node management is all there, I didn't have time to check for the actual rendering code because I had to get back to work. But I'm thoroughly convinced that it's real. I even feel bad for downloading it now because I know if someone stole my code I'd be way more than pissed about it. Let em steal a binary all day, but when they have the code it's a whole new level. This is corporate espionage at its finest.
Ok... It's real. It looks very incomplete, pretty old, but real nonetheless. There's functional code for things that never existed in HL1. (I assume to be functional at least, obviously I can't compile it but if this is a joke played by someone who just wrote a bunch of code to try to make it look real then they spent a LOT of time doing it.)
:(
Now however, I have come to the conclusion that this IS an SDK, and not the full source of their engine.
Err, I take that back. Its the engine. Just found the occlusion system and the node management.
I feel for Valve about now. This sucks.
I'm deleting the source just out of respect.
I'm just about done d/l'ing it to have a peek. I know the HL1 SDK code extremely well so I may be able to tell if this is just a hoax or whatever.
Hmm... So most likely an SDK of some sort. I hope it's not the HL1 SDK cause i'm dying to get a look at the HL2 SDK.
Wow.
That's quite a big deal to have leaked. Unfortunately the article is down to I can't RTFA, but is this just the SDK source code or the whole friggin thing?
If it's the whole thing think of how much jeopardy that puts them in with the people they've licensed technology from (such as the Havok physics engine, etc).
Again I say, Wow.
Hey, just in case you hadn't noticed... Marin was the spammer, not the victim.
Wow.. Nice use of the ZDNet redirect. Luckily I read the reply to your post first before clicking. Talk about non-work safe.
But you're missing the point. Thats not what the Democrats were proposing. They were proposing not that the cheap seats get cheaper, but that the people sitting in the box seats pay to have people sit in them.
Trust me when I say that you have no clue what you're talking about. I work for a bank. We communicate with our ATMs over a dedicated line. Having an extremely stripped down version of Windows on an ATM really isn't going to make it a whole lot less secure. It'll still be the same way its always been: The easiest way to get money from an ATM is just to take the ATM. (No, I'm not kidding. We've had that happen a couple of times.)
Maintenance staff does not have 'root' access to the system. They have the ability to open the safe to place more money in, as well as to restock the paper feed for receipts. Thats it. If they're going to take money they're going to do it from the safe, then they'll get caught by doing so. We have one ATM technician and even he doesn't have 'root' access to the boxes.
Please do a little research before opening your mouth.
But those tax cuts come out of the pockets of those who are better off. Since when is that fair? This is America. We aren't (or shouldn't be at least) a communistic society. That's the whole point of capitalism.
Let me give you a little illustration about your so-called tax cuts for the rich. The Democrats proposed a new solution to taxes to solve the "problem" of tax-cuts for the rich. This illustration is borrowed from someone on the radio (can't remember who). Also please keep in mind that these numbers are fictional and just for illustration purposes.
Ok, so 50,000 people buy tickets to a baseball game.
1,000 of those people bought box seats for $300.
9,000 of those people bought really good seats right near the dugout for $150.
15,000 people bought average tickets for $75.
25,000 people bought nosebleed tickets for $25.
Well, wouldn't ya know it, the game gets cancelled. The owners of the stadium are Democrats and pass out refunds the same way Democrats want to hand out tax cuts:
The 25,000 people get a refund of $50. $25 more than they actually payed for a ticket. Awesome eh?
The 15,000 people get a refund of $100. Hey, they get $25 more too...
The 9,000 people get a refund of only $125. What? They don't get all of their money back?
The 1,000 people? Well, they don't get a refund. Instead, they pay $475 apiece.
That folks, is the math of democrats.
Yes, its overexaggerating and silly, but its also a bit serious. Of course the rich are going to get more money back out of a tax cut. They paid more in the first place.
So have you digressed in age since then? I'm usually not a grammar/spelling nazi but that was the most horridly constructed paragraph/run-on sentence I have ever seen in my life. Please do the world a favor and shoot the person who taught you how to write.
If ya shake it more than twice its playing with it =)
BS... I can identify a monitor's refresh rate by glancing at it up to 120hz.. Seriously. The monitor I'm using right now only has a 75hz refresh rate at 1280x1024 which bugs the crap outta me. Just because your eye's can't see the difference between 60hz and 120hz doesn't mean others can't. (And actually its a curse more than a blessing... Walking up to a luser's computer running at 60hz because they don't know any better gives me frequent headaches)
No, thats called "You're an idiot..." He said he "spent his own money". That Implies buying those 10,000 albums he just gave out. Last time I checked giving away something that you bought (especially if its still shrink wrapped) isn't "ILLEGALLY DISTRIBUTING FILES". Read a little more closely before you start flaming.
Ahh see, but (before I changed it to the new sig) it was actually a joke... You have also just proved you have no sense of humor. Let me restate the sig for you (since it is no longer my sig): "I voted democrat because I was sick of the way republicans were doing things. Which turns out to be about like shooting yourself in the head to cure a cold."
Now class, today we're going to learn about a little thing I like to call "Sarcasm". Can you say it with me? "Saaaar-casss-mmm"
Just in case you didn't catch it this time, I'm actually a Republican. I don't always agree with everything the party does, but its a heckuva lot better than Democrat's. Mainly because I think killing unborn children is wrong, and there are few Democrats who share that stance.
What in the world are you talking about? I never said you were offtopic. All I said was that you need to wake up and smell the .NET.
*ring ring* Hello? Is this AKAImBatman? Yes, I'd like to inform you that the article you're posting on is about the very technology that you're stating doesn't exist in MS-land....
No, but seriously, dotnet is all about versioning.. You could have as many different builds of the same software in the GAC as you wanted. Dotnet allows XCopy deployment without registering components, etc and a pretty darn decent versioning management system. Heck, with ASP.NET you can deploy a new version of your dll's for your web app while the app is still running and any new requests will use the new dlls while any still-running requests at the time of deployment will continue to use the old dll's until the request is finished processing.