um, no, i presented facts. i note you have not refuted any of the actual hard facts on web browser standards compliance. gecko *is* in fact the most standards compliant renderer out there. we could both talk about what a particular browser will have in the future, but the fact remains that right now, in real functioning code, gecko is the most compliant. plus, seeing how fast mozilla continues to develope, this situation is not likely to change anytime in the near future.
apple chose khtml for its size/speed advantage, not its standards support. noone who knows would ever argues that kthml is more standards compliant than gecko, there is just too much proof otherwise:
A very nice and polite woman named Heather from PayPal called my home number this morning in order to resolve this dispute between AbiWord and PayPal.
She emailed me 2 affidavits that I must sign, notarize, and then mail via post back to the PayPal headquarters in Omaha, Nebraska. The $581 will be credited to my account immediately thereafter. This means that within one working week the AbiWord Fund will have its $581 back, less the cost of postage and a notary's fee. All in all, that isn't so bad.
To the folks at PayPal, I applaud you for doing the right thing, even if it took a while to do it. In my eyes, I feel that your company has redeemed itself. I only pray that your company handles all future complaints with the due-diligence that they deserve.
To all of those who have written letters of support to both me and PayPal on my behalf, I thank you. I think that if nothing else, we've helped raise some awareness in the general community. At the very least, we've gotten our money back:)
Thanks, Dom
--- *) The PayPal documents were multi-page MS Word documents. AbiWord opened and printed both copies (paper output in my hands) before OpenOffice even loaded. Abi's versions look better, to boot.
*) Omaha is also the US city where Nyorp, our "little BSD server that could" resides.
look, the crux of ChaoticCoyote's argument was this supposed "elitist and myopic attitude" in free software would prevent good designers from wanting to get involved, Shelled pointed out that how this was obviously bullshit FUD if you actually take the time to READ what people really say. The Free Software community draws contributors from all different walks of life, including talented graphic artists like TigerT and Jimmac (check out the new Gnome 2.0 icon set) and the the guys that do the newer KDE icons.
i imagine that in the future they will make deals with commerical vendors, where the commercial vendors would pay ximian to list their products, seems to make sense.
did you manually upgrade all the desktop and widget libraries when you updated from windows 2000 to XP? No? You just inserted the cd and let the whole OS updater do it for you? If you tried to manually update all the different interdependant libraries on windows without reading any documentation, do you really think it would work? i think not.
This is exaclty how it happens with gnome too: if you arn't a power user (ie, if you can't read and follow the instructions in the release notes) wait for your os distribution (ximian, redhat, debian, madrake, what-have-you) to release an update.
Most of the "reviewers" problems would never have come up if he A) followed directions, or failing the ability to do that B) let his distribution (do the update)
if you want to live on the bleeding edge and update packages left and right inbetween distribution releases, be prepared to read the instructions or pay the price, its really not that hard.
mozilla is a perfect example of how stupid, contrite little sayings like "never do this or that" should never guide you... in some circumstances (like mozilla), a rewrite is the best option.
1) Bonobo is not replacing Mono, they will be integrated together.
http://go-mono.org/faq.html#basics
"Question 20: Will Mono include compatibility with Bonobo components? What is the relationship between Mono and Bonobo?
Yes, we will provide a set of classes for implementing and using Bonobo components from within Mono. Mono should allow you to write Bonobo components more easily, just like.NET on Windows allows you to export.NET components to COM."
2) Who is using it outside gnome? How about OpenOffice?:
http://whiteboard.openoffice.org/bonobo/
3) If you think the number of processess spawned (remember threads are processes in linux) is a good measure of the quality of a program, you are increadably ignorant.
don't misconstrue my comments as saying anything else, but 90% of the time reports skip over this "minor detail" that correlation say nothing about causation. there is no evidence that sleeping less will cause you to live longer.
i managed to get my fathers brand new compaq machine with XP on it to hard reboot itself just by clicking "Switch Users" 15 minutes after starting to use it... not to mention that 2000 crashes CONSTANTLY. Windows stability is simply a myth, anyone who says otherwise is either blinding themselves or doesn't have a lot of experience using it.
Evolution, Redcarpet, Gnumeric, DevHelp, Nautilus, Anjuta Dev Studio (coming along really quickly because of the power of Bonobo) and OpenOffice's pending bonobo intergration... i know i am missing some...
If the author PGP signs his or her work, then you can be sure of its authenticity. In fact, e-paper will make this much much easier to be sure that a publishing house hasn't introduced typos, or worse, censored the author.
i guess that is the cost of an open system... the most tried and true technique to get yourself modded up is to start out saying "i know this is unpopular and i'll get modded down for this...":)
I guess my identical post got modded down becasue i submitted it 0.25 seconds later than you, but them's is the breaks.;-P I think it's important to point out how deeply involved Sun is with the project. their developers have been really active on all the lists recently and they are really making the accessibility stuff happen. It's really cool to see the positive benefits of these companies getting involved.
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um, no, i presented facts. i note you have not refuted any of the actual hard facts on web browser standards compliance. gecko *is* in fact the most standards compliant renderer out there. we could both talk about what a particular browser will have in the future, but the fact remains that right now, in real functioning code, gecko is the most compliant. plus, seeing how fast mozilla continues to develope, this situation is not likely to change anytime in the near future.
apple chose khtml for its size/speed advantage, not its standards support. noone who knows would ever argues that kthml is more standards compliant than gecko, there is just too much proof otherwise:
http://www.hut.fi/u/hsivonen/os-x-browsers.html
http://www.abisource.com/mailinglists/abiword-dev/ 02/Oct/0462.html
:)
A very nice and polite woman named Heather from PayPal called my home
number this morning in order to resolve this dispute between AbiWord
and PayPal.
She emailed me 2 affidavits that I must sign, notarize, and then mail
via post back to the PayPal headquarters in Omaha, Nebraska. The $581
will be credited to my account immediately thereafter. This means that
within one working week the AbiWord Fund will have its $581 back, less
the cost of postage and a notary's fee. All in all, that isn't so bad.
To the folks at PayPal, I applaud you for doing the right thing, even
if it took a while to do it. In my eyes, I feel that your company has
redeemed itself. I only pray that your company handles all future
complaints with the due-diligence that they deserve.
To all of those who have written letters of support to both me and
PayPal on my behalf, I thank you. I think that if nothing else, we've
helped raise some awareness in the general community. At the very
least, we've gotten our money back
Thanks,
Dom
---
*) The PayPal documents were multi-page MS Word documents. AbiWord
opened and printed both copies (paper output in my hands) before
OpenOffice even loaded. Abi's versions look better, to boot.
*) Omaha is also the US city where Nyorp, our "little BSD server that could" resides.
"I'm waiting for Linux to get where FreeBSD is for ease of building..."
that's where gentoo is. the *point* of gentoo is that it uses the ports system... so congratulations to you, no more waiting
look, the crux of ChaoticCoyote's argument was this supposed "elitist and myopic attitude" in free software would prevent good designers from wanting to get involved, Shelled pointed out that how this was obviously bullshit FUD if you actually take the time to READ what people really say. The Free Software community draws contributors from all different walks of life, including talented graphic artists like TigerT and Jimmac (check out the new Gnome 2.0 icon set) and the the guys that do the newer KDE icons.
i imagine that in the future they will make deals with commerical vendors, where the commercial vendors would pay ximian to list their products, seems to make sense.
they tend to test things for a little while after a release to make sure the distribution as a whole is stable, be patient :)
(though the developer preview channel is just straight gnome 2.0 cvs)
did you manually upgrade all the desktop and widget libraries when you updated from windows 2000 to XP? No? You just inserted the cd and let the whole OS updater do it for you? If you tried to manually update all the different interdependant libraries on windows without reading any documentation, do you really think it would work? i think not.
This is exaclty how it happens with gnome too: if you arn't a power user (ie, if you can't read and follow the instructions in the release notes) wait for your os distribution (ximian, redhat, debian, madrake, what-have-you) to release an update.
Most of the "reviewers" problems would never have come up if he A) followed directions, or failing the ability to do that B) let his distribution (do the update)
if you want to live on the bleeding edge and update packages left and right inbetween distribution releases, be prepared to read the instructions or pay the price, its really not that hard.
* Bug 89350 -- Home button should appear on main Toolbar
* Bug 35268 -- Edit Source using External Editor
these are serious 1.0 stopping features??? man, you need a reality check
mozilla is a perfect example of how stupid, contrite little sayings like "never do this or that" should never guide you... in some circumstances (like mozilla), a rewrite is the best option.
1) Bonobo is not replacing Mono, they will be integrated together.
.NET on Windows allows you to export .NET components to COM."
:
http://go-mono.org/faq.html#basics
"Question 20: Will Mono include compatibility with Bonobo components? What is the relationship between Mono and Bonobo?
Yes, we will provide a set of classes for implementing and using Bonobo components from within Mono. Mono should allow you to write Bonobo components more easily, just like
2) Who is using it outside gnome? How about OpenOffice?
http://whiteboard.openoffice.org/bonobo/
3) If you think the number of processess spawned (remember threads are processes in linux) is a good measure of the quality of a program, you are increadably ignorant.
don't misconstrue my comments as saying anything else, but 90% of the time reports skip over this "minor detail" that correlation say nothing about causation. there is no evidence that sleeping less will cause you to live longer.
as it said at the bottom of the abstract, Causality is unproven. Thanks for pointing this out :)
The fact there is a lot of code shared reduces memory usage and increases stability and speed becuase there is less code to optimise and maintain.
i managed to get my fathers brand new compaq machine with XP on it to hard reboot itself just by clicking "Switch Users" 15 minutes after starting to use it... not to mention that 2000 crashes CONSTANTLY. Windows stability is simply a myth, anyone who says otherwise is either blinding themselves or doesn't have a lot of experience using it.
Evolution, Redcarpet, Gnumeric, DevHelp, Nautilus, Anjuta Dev Studio (coming along really quickly because of the power of Bonobo) and OpenOffice's pending bonobo intergration... i know i am missing some...
"If the author PGP signs his or her work, then you can be sure of its authenticity. "
To rephrase, you get exactly what the author wants you to get, end of story.
If the author PGP signs his or her work, then you can be sure of its authenticity. In fact, e-paper will make this much much easier to be sure that a publishing house hasn't introduced typos, or worse, censored the author.
i guess that is the cost of an open system... the most tried and true technique to get yourself modded up is to start out saying "i know this is unpopular and i'll get modded down for this..." :)
I guess my identical post got modded down becasue i submitted it 0.25 seconds later than you, but them's is the breaks. ;-P I think it's important to point out how deeply involved Sun is with the project. their developers have been really active on all the lists recently and they are really making the accessibility stuff happen. It's really cool to see the positive benefits of these companies getting involved.
They are making some serious headway too, their developers are very active on all of the Gnome development lists.
It is a officially supported first-rate platform being developed in the main Gtk+ CVS tree.
its how it all works together that counts.
I couldn't have said it better myself. :)
while (1) {
if (self.canCode()) {
self.scratchItch();
}
else {
self.bitchAboutOthersHardWork();
}
}