Slashdot Mirror
GNOME 2.0 Desktop Alpha
xer.xes writes: "The first public testing release of the GNOME 2.0 Desktop, 'Rolig Liten Hattgubbe,' is ready for your testing pleasure! It is available for immediate download here. Please read the release notes first! Due for general consumption in March, the GNOME 2.0 Desktop is a greatly improved user environment for existing GNOME applications. Enhancements include anti-aliased text and first class internationalisation support, new accessibility features for disabled users, and many improvements throughout GNOME's highly regarded user interface."
Its nice to see another step in the uphill battle Linux faces against the already-popular Windows. I, for one, will use Linux more now.
Job? I don't have time to get a job! Who will sit around and bitch about being broke and unemployed then?
All we need now are the ever important screenshots!
"Rolig liten hattgubbe" is Swedish and translates to "Funny little hat-man" (yes, it sounds ridiculous in my language too).
"If you think education is expensive, try ignorance" - Derek Bok
"Rolig Liten Hattgubbe" and "Lagom". There is a lot of Swedish on Slashdot these days! "Rolig Liten Hattgubbe" means "Funny Little Hat Guy". Who is the Funny Little Hat Guy?
- El riesgo siempre vive - Private J. Vasquez
highly regarded user interface? by whom?
i know this sounds like flamebait, but really...
"I think there is a world market for, maybe, five computers." __ IBM Chairman, 1943 __
I'm too much of a pansy to disturb my prefectly configured Debian system, so can someone else install this and post screenshots?
Persian poetry on GNOME.
"Flyin' in just a sweet place,
Never been known to fail..."
The name "rolig liten hattgubbe" is Swedish, it means "Funny little hat guy." It seems /. is getting more and more infested with Swedish and Sweden every day. What's going on here? An invasion?
Give a man a fish and he eats for one day. Teach him how to fish, and though he'll eat for a lifetime, he'll call you a miser for not giving him your fish.
Terrorists can't threaten a country's freedom and democracy. Only lawmakers and voters can do that.
Well, thanks for that, but unfortunately the literal translation is gibberish in English. Anyone know what it really means?
Whups, someone beat me to it on that one.. ./ -we're taking over!
Too many Swedish-speakers on
I use GNOME for only what I have to... it was installed as the only window manager on the webserver that I administer before it came to me, and for what I use it for, it works just fine. I've heard stories from past coworkers that upgrading or replacing a window manager is quite complicated, and if not done exactly right can cause major problems.
I personally am of the opinion, that unless it concerns security or (used) functionality, don't fix it if it's not broken.
I guess I'll wait until the other folks here install 2.0 to see 1) what (if any) problems they had, and 2) was it really worth it.
There is something to be said for using software that is a bit older and has been around for a while. Just look at XP and all the holes they found in the first couple months. I doubt any new exploits will be found for my Windows 98 SE I'm running at home...
And they said zombies weren't real!
5 posts about what a great job the gnome folks are doing
8 posts about how much better and more advanced kde is than gnome
7 posts about how you shouldn't do OO programming in C
9 posts about how OO is a method not a language :)
50 posts from people who don't give a rat's arse about different desktops and like their gnome
and finally... 4 posts summarizing the number of other posts for the topic
I mean really, I start playing with my kernel , slashdot posts a kernel story, earlier I was looking for this, about 4 hours later slashdot posts it, one of those days you wonder if youre living in the fricking Mtrix or something, what Am I becoming Slashdot Psycic ?
...If thats true cool, anyone run this enough to know if its stable enough (no more than 4 reboots in say 6 hours) to play with on my home console ? Is double buffering working yet ?
On to Gnome, my understanding was binary compatibility was BROKEN ? this didnt make sense (well a littl) but the top says Greater compatiblity
I am having a hell of a time finding feauture/staus lists on Gnomes site, but Im tired so that may be part of it, any suggestions, or works/dontwork lists out there someone could point me too ?
Sig went tro...aahemmm.....fishing........
Looks good in the screenshots. I absolutely abhor the current gnomecc, this looks like a step in the right direction.
Can't wait to try it.
...are available here
http://developer.gnome.org/dotplan/
mmmmmmmm pretty.
There are 01 types of people in this world. Those that understand binary, and me.
.. It's not like it makes a lot of sense in Swedish either!!
Although hat-man could be translated as
'man with a hat'.
(German (dutch?) and the scandinavian languages
allow joining words together very liberally)
Is it any faster than the last version of GNOME?
Congratulations to the GNOME folks for making 2.0 a reality.
Now if only the number of shared libraries could be reduced... GNOME is currently a huge monster of a system, and I'm sure its size (and performance) could be improved for the next release.
It really means exactly that. It's pure gibberish also in Swedish. Does anyone know why it got such a strange name?
Give a man a fish and he eats for one day. Teach him how to fish, and though he'll eat for a lifetime, he'll call you a miser for not giving him your fish.
Terrorists can't threaten a country's freedom and democracy. Only lawmakers and voters can do that.
I'm considering which Desktop Enviornment to install on my new Slackware box, and I'm wondering if someone could post a non-biased comparision between KDE and GNOME. Which do you think is better in terms of speed, efficiency, usability, etc?
this sig limit is too small to put anything good h
just switched back to windowmaker after breaking gnome 1.4 by using it.
anybody else got gnome refusing to start after killing XFree due a crash of your favorite first person shooter?
A funny little man with a hat would be a Gnome right? The software is also known as Gnome, hence the correlation.
[Desktop Environment] Posted by Jeff Waugh on Thursday January 17, @01:56PM
s /gnome-2.0-desktop-alpha/). Please read the release notes in the body of this article.
:-)
from the brought-to-you-by-tsing-tao dept.
The first public testing release of the GNOME 2.0 Desktop, "Rolig Liten Hattgubbe", is ready for your testing pleasure! It is available for immediate download here (ftp://ftp.gnome.org/pub/GNOME/pre-gnome2/release
Due for general consumption in March, the GNOME 2.0 Desktop is a greatly improved user environment for existing GNOME applications. Enhancements include anti-aliased text and first class internationalisation support, new accessibility features for disabled users, and many improvements throughout GNOME's highly regarded user interface.
Build Requirements
* The tarballs included in the release.
* Some very basic packages not distributed with this release, such as image libraries, freetype and mozilla. These should all be included with or available for your distribution.
* autoconf 2.52, automake 1.4-p4, libtool 1.4.2, pkgconfig 0.8.0
* If you are installing GNOME 2.0 alongside 1.4, you *need* recent GNOME 1.4 library / developer platform packages.
A dia format dependency graph for the developer platform and desktop release is available on the dot.plan website.
Testers
If you have incredible talents at breaking GNOME, perhaps even to rival Telsa's infamous path of destruction (and excellent bug reporting of said path), this alpha release is made for you!
When reporting bugs, use bugzilla.gnome.org or bug-buddy. Make sure you choose the correct version number, as reports against versions included with the alpha will be given higher priority than reports against unspecified releases.
Note that by default, the software is built with debugging turned on, and most programs spit plenty of output to your terminal as they run. This means that whilst programs may run somewhat slower, the information supplied with bug reports will be far more helpful to the maintainers. Before submitting a bug report, try running the software from your terminal to see if it provides extra information.
We'll answer this one before it becomes a FAQ: If you want to test anti-aliasing, you need to set the GDK_USE_XFT environment variable, eg: export GDK_USE_XFT=1
Bug Squad
Whether you're testing GNOME 2.0 or not, you can still help out with the bug busting efforts by triaging and tracking bugs in bugzilla. Join the bugsquad mailing list, and hang out on #bugs (on irc.gnome.org) to get involved.
For help with bugzilla accounts, email bugmaster@gnome.org.
Distributors
This release is not intended for inclusion in distributions. However, binary packages for bleeding edge testers on your platform are very welcome. Please email the release team if you have built packages for your platform.
Hackers
When reporting bugs is simply not enough, and you'd prefer to make your own (or, indeed, fix the ones you find), this release is also made for you! The best places to send your patches are to the module maintainers, bugzilla or the relevant mailing list.
Most modules include a TODO list file, and you can find a lengthy release wide todo list on the dot.plan site (this will migrate over to bugzilla soon). The modules most in need of attention are nautilus, gnome-media, and sawfish.
Happy testing!
- The GNOME 2.0 Release Team
Does anyone know why it got such a strange name?
So it would give those not able to think of anything useful to write about a chance to post.
I quit using Gnome (1.4 IIRC?) since they added Nautilus. It's really pretty, but unbelievably and unusably slow on a 1.4GHz/DDR Athlon, 512M RAM, Mandrake 7.1. Oh yeah, GMC's MIME association editor is now broken, so I can't use it with any app it isn't already configured for. Does anyone know how to fix that? Or better yet, can anyone speed up Nautilus?
Will 2.0 fix this?
The fact there is a lot of code shared reduces memory usage and increases stability and speed becuase there is less code to optimise and maintain.
got drum'n'bass?
http://mp3.com/vitriolix
Upgrading is not worth it! Note that this release is labeled as "Alpha", which is developer-speak means "not feature complete and will crash on you all the time".
If you want to live on the bleeding edge, you can install this in addition to your working desktop, i.e. by using the vicious build scripts from Gnome CVS.
Have you tried opera? No, its not open source, and the free version is ad ware, but I personally love their interface (pop up windows can't get out of control!) and the gestures are great! Small things, like the ability to turn off popup windows directly from the menu, are nice! Its really coming along!
"Of all days, the day on which one has not laughed is the most surely the one wasted." -Sebastian Roch Nicol
It's gibberish in swedish too, but it's quiet obviously a description of what a gnome (you know one of those disgusting 'statues' kept in gardens all around britain)is, or for you swedes, en tomte.
I prefer Netscape because it enables users to really take advantage of the "blink" support...
If you celebrate Xmas, befriend me (538
Could it be that the Finns are behind this? We tend to make inside jokes of the Swedish language by using our dear second official language in a really weird way -- mostly by perverting something stereotypical we learnt in high school.
Euphemism is something else (I won't tell you what! :)
Highly regarded enought to be THE gui on these two systems.
Obviously you haven't tried a recent release of Galeon!
insightful AC post duplicated here for wider availability. Mod parent up, so I wont have to burn more karma points like this:
This is the most politically correct (as in Slashdot-politically correct) post I have ever seen! Kudos to you, thoughtless meat popsicle!
When in doubt, have a man come through a door with a gun in his hand.
We actually join pretty much everything, it saves spaces :-)
I didn't say it was your fault. I said I was going to blame it on you.
% echo twm > .xinitrc
I just can't get past clicking on an ugly foot to "start" my computing adventure.
Feet are smelly and nasty. I just don't want a foot on my desktop.
My poetry site welcomes the unusual.
In this sure to be flamed opinion, konqueror beats mozilla to death! But galeon (based on mozilla) still suffers from "slowness" of the bloated gecko engine!
IE in win4lin is not bad, but still M$ evil!
Bork bork bork!
;-)
Please all keep in mind, that this is a very much alpha style release.
;-)
.rpm's of the packages, before you jump into the deep and start testing. The Gnome Packaging project is working hard on these, so i'm sure they will be along soon.
This means a couple of base packages don't compile without any manual labor, and a few packages won't compile unless you become a leet gnome hacker and fix the source on the fly
It's a great way to get a first preview of the platform,but for general consumption or testing, this platform just int it yet.
If you prefer not hacking to much source, it might be worth wile to wait for the
Mozilla, Konqueror, Galeon, Opera...
What's not to like about any of those? I especially like Galeon, as I use Gnome and I really like the tabbed browsing. Konq is also really good.
Mozilla is absolutely outstanding if you have a decent machine, 500MHZ (or thereabouts), and Opera is pretty good too.
Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken - Tyler Durden
My favorite window manager combination had always been Gnome/Enlightenment. That is, of course, until nautilus came into the picture and messed everything up. Now it's horribly slow, slow to load programs, doesn't match up well with enlightenment (unless of course you set Enlightenment's background to Nautilus', and don't care about seeing icons in your translucent terminals) I just want to know if this is any faster and if it resolves some of those issues. (P.S. I've since been using windowmaker, which i'm pretty happy with until E18)
__________________________________________
Take comfort in your ignorance.
Grandmaster Plague
We actually join pretty much everything, it saves spaces :-)
Aha! That must be why Linus chose Swedish over
Finnish as his mother tounge - efficent coding!
Note that the Galeon has allowed turning off popups forever, and the most recent development version has gesture support too.
It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.
Geez, they don't have to be so hard on themselves...
This is just a copy&paste of the article to which the slashdot story links.. Thanks for wasting my bandwidth...
xer.xes -- 4181
http://shakti.tky.hut.fi/slashdot/gnome2-alpha1/
Also the screenshots can be found there.
Show me the slashdot effect :)
Even if (when) GNOME finishes 2.0, they're still way behind KDE. KDE 2.X has been out since October 23 2000 (!).
It has internationalization, antialiased text, and a very configurable interface. A polished Control Center, first class file manager and browser Konqueror. It has a unified Help tool, with damn near every language in it. It's (L)GPLed and BSDed, has consistent UI between diverse apps, like the amazing KMail and KNode. It has an IDE to rival even MS, KDevelop. Even Konsole is impressive. I have no reason to use GNOME at all. GTK+ 2 isn't even really up to where Qt 1.4 was.
Lastly, KDE3 with Qt3 is in beta.
Use GNOME is you feel like it, but realize that you are way behind the state-of-the-art Linux desktop.
And as a side-note, it translates *almost* pefectly to the Norwegian phrase "Calm little hat-man"... :) See how much difference a little word can do.
"Highly regarded user interface" = "Considered by 6 our of 10 users to be 'the least crappy one on Linux' "
:D
Face it, gnome is out dated and slow, KDE has the best chance of beating windows, it even runs fast on a "obsolete" 450hmz processor with a "small" (64M) amount of ram.
My idea of a smooth user experience does not include a browser crashing at will. And that is exactly what happens when I run Internet Explorer. I think it offen happens that it crashes, mostly if you open a few more than 5 windows, and I do so when I 'surf'.
Btw. I'd better tell you that it's not only on old Windows systems that my IE crashes, if tried it on completely fresh Win98se installations as well.
As mentioned in a previous reply as well, Opera is an excellent browser, and if you don't like proprietary software, Galeon and Konqueror are also doing great.
Note: this is not a troll.
:). I want to be able to run Gnome and KDE on my 266MHz Cyrix as well, not just my 800MHz Duron. Until that time there's Blackbox I guess, which screams on anything.
My one big complaint about Gtk+/Gnome applications is with the file select dialog. When I click on a directory, it erases the filename that was already typed in! This is lame. If they can improve the file selection dialog, I will be happy.
That said, if my biggest complaint is something so small, I think things are going quite well. Oh, and it needs to be faster too
A solution to the problem with music today
Sorry, but GNOME just look butt ugly on it's default install, and default installs are what matter (so please, spare me the themes, color changes, etc.)
The only visual improvement I see is the icons on the Gnome Control Center, they look kind of nice.
The buttons on the "taskbar" on the bottom on the other hand are such a waste of space. Too big and too much empty space there.
The indicator that a menu or toolbar is draggable is too cluncky and distracting.
And draggable toolbars are a waste of time. Just because Windows does it, doesn't mean it's a good idea. That's probably one of the stupidest UI design decision since the one button mouse !
- sigs are for wimps.
I use Gnome daily at home as my main desktop...i think it works fine right now, my only question is "will it run faster"? it seems pretty slow in comparison with say KDE. I like it more though...
Thank you so much. You spoke right from my heart. This is what /. has become these days. This kind of behavior would not have been accepted here just a few years ago.
The GNOME people don't always provide packages when they announce something has been released. So if you're looking for packages, try
:). This is for all Linux distros.
* Ximian's Red Carpet - nightly CVS GNOME is avaliable is the GNOME Preview channel. Just grab tonights
* Red Hat's Gnomehide (GIYF), if you're running 7.2. Hopefully Havoc should update it to the Alpha soon, but you can use it now - my work has about 3000 packages for Red Hat 7.2 is our APT repository and GNOMEhide installs just fine.
I run RedHat on my main workstation and BSD on a bunch of my servers. I also have a PC running Win2K, a G4 Titanium PowerBook and a Solaris boxen.
I by far prefer the working environment of linux to all of the others, aside from the Mac. Sorry, Mac OS 10.1 is absolutely fabulous.
The only thing about the unix environment, especially the linux environment, that really gets to me is the complete lack of good fonts.
Windows, love it or loathe it, has very nice true-type, well-hinted fonts. They are very easy to read, even when small. They have serif, they have sans-serif, and both are beautiful.
Mac OS 10.1 has even better fonts, I think, although many might disagree. Regardless, not far removed in quality from that of windows, whether better or worse.
However, what no will will disagree about is that the fonts in linux suck. They are ugly. They are unreadable when small. They are badly aliased. They need to be put out of their misery.
Some may think this is inconsiquential, but I feel otherwise. I believe that until linux can produce some wonderful fonts of it's own, and use them by default without having to install anything, and have every program use them, even old ones that were written before the fonts were around, linux will never be able to touch windows or mac on the desktop.
But, hey, I'm just talking here...
Justin Dubs
I am glad they modded you up as funny...
;)). The important thing is that you are installing the libraries for each one so that well written applications can be run in any X environment of your choosing...
But here is my experience which will no doubt get both sides flaming me, so I guess this is about as unbiased as you can get.
It depends on how you are going to use your box. I assume that you are planning on using it as a graphical workstation, and so the extra bloat of KDE and GNOME are not a real problem. Also I am assuming a relatively large hard drive since you specify that your computer is new.
I think that you will find yourself to be far less limited in how you use your system if you install both desktops on your system. Most (but not all) KDE applications run fine in GNOME and vice versa-- case in point, I am writing this on Konqueror within GNOME). In essence, you will have more flexibility and redundency if you install both and use whichever one you like more (you can even run WindowMaker, BlackBox, or a simple TWM if you really really want to
My advice is simple. Run them both if you can afford the additional hard drive space. For higher-end workstations, I much prefer GNUOME, but for that old Dev server, KDE was pretty good.
But then, I suppose both sides will see this as heresy...
LedgerSMB: Open source Accounting/ERP
Will we be able to run it on XFree86 4.2 by then? It'd be nice to make the upgrade a REALLY clean one.
Steve Bougerolle, steveb@pacific.net.hk, http://home.pacific.net.hk/~steveb
Any programmer who is proficient at both Gtk and Qt, and who doesn't mind Qt's less than kosher origin (by the FSF standards), will take KDE anytime, just for the added convenience of an IDE that closely mimics the Visual C++ interface where most programmers learned C++. Although Visual C++ may have a few "convenience features" that Kdevelop lacks, Qt has such a nice, practical, and intuitive API that I, being a programmer who sometimes must do GUI stuff, would choose KDE based on that one item.
2) His hat is RED (ever heard about "Red Hat" Linux?)
Can you guess who is it? Reach inside my pants and find out!
I hate all these dumb posts that say: "this pointless competition between GNOME and KDE is only holding LINUX back."
Funny, because competition between GNOME and KDE is *EXACTLY* what has made both GNOME and KDE so mature and stable.
Why don't you send this kind of messages to gnome-devel-list or kde-devel-list?
I'm sure you'll hear a lot of things you don't expect (such as that the GNOME vs KDE war does not exist).
I would not be using gnome anymore..I have been testing the supposted alpha and they have problems. I have really thought they would have fixed some of those issues that plagued 1.0
but nope...
Ever since they abadon the notion that gnome is independent and does not need wm...they have sucked....
I will stick to the MAC OSX and the applications that is provided....
I assume you are trolling if you mention emacs and smooth user interface in the same breath (I am not that biased, I would say the same to you if you mentioned vi instead). Vi and emacs amy be industrial-strength code and text editors, but paring that with a smooth user interface just is not possible due to the complexity of the functions required of the software...
On to web browsers. I am writing this in Konqueror, so be aware of this bias. I think that there are several Really Annoying Things about Internet Explorer which detract not from the user experience of the product but rather the user experience of the internet itself. Konqueror 2.2.2 gets rid of all these, most notibly pop-up windows.
Wait, I am sure you will say-- who worries abotu pop-up windows when you are not surfing for Pr0n? If you ask that question, I will ask you which cave you have been living in for the past few years... Popups are everywhere and they really do detract from the general experience of the web. Right now, I am trying to decide whether to try to get my parents to switch from Mozilla to Konqueror...
Try it and you may find that it amazes you too!
LedgerSMB: Open source Accounting/ERP
Here are some screenshots of the Gnome 2 desktop
http://developer.gnome.org/dotplan/
Galleon is probably currently the best browser for Linux, though I personally use Konqueror since it integrates so well with the rest of KDE. Imagine that, choosing one browser over another because it comes with your environment and works well with it... weird eh? ;)
sic transit gloria mundi
but not for a gnome. A dick, more like. But then you opensources people produce cocked up code anyway... PROPZ TO alll DEaD PeNIS BIRDZ!1!
If you don't want to waste bandwidth, you shouldn't be reading slashdot comments.
Delete the *.kdevses file from your project directory and you get your project back. Or upgrade KDevelop.
I use KDE and have always loved Konqueror, checking out Mozilla now and then to see what's happening. My feelings have always been the same: terrible loading times and just a general slowness in just about every aspect.
So when I recently downloaded a nightly build I did not have high hopes, but was I wrong! The startup time was much improved and everything just felt so much smoother, both the interface and the rendering.
I also love the ability to use tabs for all the pages, instead of having windows all over the place.
Saying that there isn't a decent browser for Linux is complete BS IMHO, I can't find anything that IE does better than Mozilla except having support for those damn QT and Shockwave formats and a large userbase of clueless HTML-coders thinking IE is the only browser in existance.
Looking forward to the 1.0 release.
It's game play is much better than Diablo...
Enhancements include anti-aliased text and first class internationalisation support, new accessibility features for disabled users, and many improvements throughout GNOME's highly regarded user interface.
Anything useful? Or is it just more bugs, more memory footprint, more disk space, more trouble porting to windows?
Computer: $1000
Window$XP: $300
Linux CD: $10
Dual-booting Linux and using M$ only for the Intellimouse and SideWinder joystick: priceless.
it's that the entire fonts system on *nix machines is esoteric enough that all the fiddling with suitcases etc on the Mac (as of several years ago at least -- I really haven't played with the fonts on my iBook) is nothing in comparison.
:) It's nice that both KDE and GNOME now have antialiasing, but I really wish there was a single spot I could drag a downloaded font and know it would then be available to every application which uses fonts ...
:) Even if it could be used mostly to create ugly fonts, as long as the capability to creat new / better / improved ones existed, I bet a few nice ones would soon float to the top ...
The fonts available to AbiWord are not the same ones available to the GIMP, for instance, and I'm not sure -- though I haven't pursued -- how to change this. (KWord seems to find the same fonts as the GIMP, though.)
If I could earmark money toward a useability project for either or both (or any, depending on who's counting) of the Big Desktops, it would be a prettier / friendlier / easier font-control mechanism. Drag and drop, dammit!
The *next* thing I'd like to earmark money for is an easy to use and freely licensed font-creation tool
Perhaps there really is a nice free font-creation program under Linux / UNIX, I just don't know about it if so.
In short, I agree and then some!
timothy
jrnl: http://tinyurl.com/c2l8yr / foes: http://tinyurl.com/ckjno5
Having the ability to forbid javascript to pop-up tons of ads and having the ability to define the size of the smallest fonts, without magnifying the largest fonts, is pretty much my definition of a "smooth user experience" in a web browser. After I learned how to set up macromerdia flash to display on Konqueror, I never used any other browser.
Hey, I'd even settle for just stable. In fact, I use lynx a lot, because I've only managed to crash it once or twice, but it seems rather silly to me that I'm stuck using a text browser in this day and age, because none of the graphical browsers work correctly. Can someone explain to me exactly why stable browsers just don't exist?
(For the record, I'm using Opera now. It's somewhat more reliable than Mozilla & friends, and is faster and works with more pages. However, it's not good by a long shot.)
How can we continue to believe in a just universe and freedom to eat crackers if we have no ale?
I only use KDE. Gnome sucks. How could a project started by a stinking Mexican do anything else than suck? I mean, I haven't any prejudice against Mexicans. They are fine gardeners and housemaids, of course. But creating a window manager? No, I don't think so. Anyhow, fuck gnome! Do you want that stupid little foot on you computer screen? No way!
And I'm not mentioning this just for the generic "smaller footprint than Mozilla", "it's Mozilla Lite", etc etc etc stuff that gets repeated everywhere.Since Galeon 1.0 released, I've used it extensively and said to myself, "This is kind of like Internet Explorer ... only better."Fullscreen is bound to the same key even (although i hacked it to F10 since I use F11 for windows list), it has a similar feel to the app windows (suitably translated to the GNOME look/feel du theme). Its preferences window is IMO prettier than IE's (for me, a system not only has to be usable and powerful but aesthetically pleasing :), and international support is just as good (eg, Japanese fonts load/display correctly, and I've only seen Korean displayed under Galeon). Add to that the tabbed browsing (I do prefer the Galeon version, even though it's not all THAT different) and you've got a really nice product. And yes, there ARE plugins :)I started out with Mozilla and kind of tolerated it (since my FIRST browser was Netscape), but Galeon is (for me) the nicest browser I've used. Certainly it can compete with IE, and I'd bet it's more secure :) You also have other good choices ... old Netscape and Emacs users will like Mozilla for the "kitchen-sink" perspective ( -_^ ), you've got official Netscape 6 releases for Unix (well, at least for Solaris, probably not Linux-based systems), Konqueror (which is REALLY popular among KDE users and said to be a very high quality product), and Opera (which is also a Win32 product, or at least was). Certainly we have good browsers, at least IMO.
I was just wondering if anyone had any experience with KDE or Gnome on Solaris 8 for Sparc? Which did you feel is a better interface for a Sparc and why? Thanks in advance.
Shockwave support can be achieved through use of Macromedia's plugin if your browser supports Netscape-style plugins. From personal experience, it's quite good ... it plays the Glove on Fight movies flawlessly. It used to have timing issues with that Zero Wing thing, but under Galeon 1.x it seems to be fine.I haven't tried KDE yet, so I don't know much about Konqueror ...
With a user# below 150k you should know this...
Arg, tis I again, The Pirate! Yar, .. let me be relayin' to you a tale of grief and heartbreak, of which there is no equal!
..
... So this Gnome be trying to talk all smooth like to my women. He be telling her he's never seen a women so obese, that he's never seen a woman with so much hair on her back, and yet none on her head. Yarg, those were to be me weddin vows! That thieving gnome had to be stopped! or killed! Arrrr.... preferably killed...
... ah to be young again.
Once, back when i was just a young pirate, i met a salty lass, a bit slovenly she was, but i could be seein' her heart was rich, and more importantly, so was her farther. Yarg! That be humor for all you ignorants readin'.
Well, I fell in love, its true, and so did she. Arg, many a night we'd fall asleep on the deck of me boat, laughin and talkin. I'd tickle her fat, and she'd tickle me beard... ah, those were the days
They were the days until this scurvy no good horse shit eating Gnome comes along! why yea, he sure do got odd lookin' feet, i'll give him that! but he was no pirate. Arrrgg
Arg, me current wife is bellowing for me to bring her fat sorry ass another keg of wine. I swear, if that hildebeast gets any bigger, i'll be able to slap a mast in her belly button and sale her fat ass to me cove! But don't worry you sorry , ugly, landlubbers I'll be back to finish me tale though! Yarrggg... and quite a tale it is. Full of things you probably have never experienced, love, lust, villany, betrayel, the touch of a woman upon your sac
I have read all the posts in this story and yours is the first that says that. There are a few posts from people who like KDE better than Gnome, but none that decries competition between them.
It's possible, but not for us old-timers. I learned C using Emacs on a VAX, C++ using Emacs on a SparcStation.
And I learned to build GUI's using the GEM Resource Editor on an AtariST. Maybe that's why I prefer the GTK-Glade-LibGlade-Emacs combination to any IDE.
does anybody know wheter normal copy and paste will work between kde 3 and gnome 2. i can copy out of gnome and into any kde app, but not the other way round...
Aside from that I also happen to like Mozilla because of the integrated mail & news, and the powerful bookmarking features - drag and drop & edit in-place, aliases etc. much better than any other browser I've seen.
There is an unfortunate trend in most open-source projects that really needs to slow down. Gnome 2.x will be API incompatible with 1.x, and they are already planning a 3.x that will break 2.x compatibility. Sure, this sort of change means the available APIs can be very nice and slick and not have to suffer the clunkiness of older API design concepts, but it also means that people, organizations, and companies have a harder time maintaining products through time. As much as Windows irks me, they did keep backward compatibility right, similar to the x86 family. Not only are the latest Windows releases API compatible, but also ABI compatible with previous versions dating back to win16 and DOS days. Sure, your API is messy just as x86 assembly is messy, but I think that a lot of open source projects are getting to the point where they should decide on an ABI/API that is "good enough" to keep supporting through future versions. Sure, additions can be made, but breaking exisiting applications in the name of progress isn't popular among businesses that don't want to spend extra development time and money just to keep up with extreme API changes...
XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
disclaimer: i change interfaces on a whim, or by project. sometimes even aewm or 9wm...
the kde that ships with the current slackware is dated, but solid. kde 2.2.2 compiles and installs out of the box (except the kdeaddons package) this takes a very long time, so script the process and let it run overnight or over the weekend. i installed it over the kde 2.1 that it came with, which was probably not a good idea, but hasnt given me any trouble.
gnome is not as dated and the only parts thats given me any problems was nautilus. its not a well featured as ximian gnome.
since its a new computer, you can easily just install everything except that youll probably want reiserfs (press F1 and F2 at the lilo (boot) prompt for the 2.4.5 kernel, then it gives the option when you format, then when you install, dont select "just install everything" because that will install the 2.2 kernel which will kernel panic)
for speed, efficiency, etc, you may want to look at something more lightwieght, like xfce or just a window manager. (wmaker, fvwm2, enlightnement(depending on theme/settings) etc) it all depends on what your used to and what your doing.
gnome-terminal / Eterm work well in KDE, the konqueror in 2.2.2 is nice no non-sense browser when you want that. and/or download the latest mozilla or netscape, they work much better than the versions provided.
overall kde has been more "complete" but its nothing you cant fix yourself just by toying with it.
thank you for the link, I was wondering what it looked like, it doesn't seem much different. Personally I am waiting for the hologram desktop.
galeon is the shitaz, I started using it after I installed ximian desktop. Browsing has never been easier.
I have, it's light fast, highly configurable and the moment I've replaced nautilus with rox I've felt like my computer got turbo booster.
All gmc users like my self should use rox. If there were just a little more support for not_really_lovers_of_rox_desktop_and_gnome_users and if it would support desktop backgrounds.
You know, I really hate the Gtk toolkit; I find it so clumsy to look at, and so clunky.
mozilla can do stop popping too!
boring same as it ever was it more like it. You want to see some decent desktops?
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http://arstechnica.infopop.net/OpenTopic/page?q
Start here and go backwords in the thread.
You just figured this out now? Part of the fun of linux is none of your apps work after 6 months or a lib/gnome/kde/distro upgrade. Bah who needs back compatability? Doesn't everyone like broken apps.
Can't you see how happy I am!
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Galeon now supports gestures albeit in the development branch. Use that! Open standards are the way forward! you know it makes sense...
KDE, love it or hate it, has some fantastic themes. Mosfets Aqua theme is very good. Would something like this be possible with GTK's new theming engine?
rep-gtk-gnome2 seems to be screwed when I try and build it. There are PKG_CHECK_MODULES tokens in the configure script which make it barf.
Any suggestions to fix this? Removing the tokens makes the problem go away, but the build subsequently fails as well. What's the deal?
Ash OS durbatulk, ash OS gimbatul, ash OS thrakatulk, agh burzum-ishi krimpatul! Uzg-MS-ishi amal fauthut burgulli.
It still looks fucking ugly.
... maybe it'll catch up in 5 years or something. And then GNOME will take another 5 years to come up to par with where KDE was. 5 years ago. Woo! Desktop Linux! heh.)
Ick.
Maybe the companies funding GNOME should pay someone with eyes for design some money.
The themes suck, too.
If only someone working on these open source desktop environments/UI toolkits/etc would take a good look at MacOS, MacOSX, or even Windows.
No comparison.
...
Maybe their code has improved.
GNOME. Too little, too late.
(By the way, yes, I think KDE is better. Alot better. Alot more coherent. Alot more together. And the APIs are _SO_ much cleaner. The code is _SO_ much better.
KDE is not perfect. Nowhere near Windows/Mac. But
Will GNOME 2 be as broken with Windowmaker as KDE 2 is?
When I use Windows machines, lack of mouse-only copy and paste is the single biggest usability problem I have.
What? Windows has mouse-only cut-and-paste. In fact, I used it when quoting from your original post. Just highlight the text you want, click the right mouse button, choose cut, then go to where you'd like to paste it, click the right mouse button again, and choose paste.
If your post was meant as a joke, I'm sorry for not getting it, but I just wanted to set the record straight for those <sarcasm>occasional Linux users that come here</sarcasm> who might not be familiar with the Windows OS.
mod this up! +1 insightful!
'Upgrading is not worth it! Note that this release is labeled as "Alpha", which is developer-speak means "not feature complete and will crash on you all the time".'
Ok- this is not meant as flamebait- but I just wondered- do lots of other people find kde apps crash on them a hell of a lot?
I have used various (final) builds of kde on numerous different computers and hell, I do like it- I like the split window function in konqueror and its built-in terminal, I like kdevelop and kate, but god- do they crash!
For me the application which crashes the most is konqueror- probably because I use it the most. It normally goes down now in internet browsing mode (it used to be the file manager mode). Normally in the khtml renderer or the javascript module... We're talking about 5 crashes a day here.
I would be very interested to hear other people's experiences...
graspee
A former Swedish National Hockey Team coach is named Leif Bork. It is true!
Yet, the family name stems from Germany.
For those of us who won't be downloading the development code but still want a sneak peak, here's a page that discusses user-visible changes in GNOME 2.0:
http://www106.pair.com/rhp/gnome-2-new.htmlA non-technical annecdote like this would be a good excuse to get some press in one of the mainstream Swedish newspapers. It's short and non-techical enough to fit in the Metro ;)
Seriously, projects like Gnome could use some help getting into DN, SvD and the others. The IT notes and columns otherwise tend to run like digests of corporate press releases.
I tried out Mandrake 8.1 a while back, and couldn't believe how often everything crashed -- they must compile everything with '--make-unstable'. I switched to Redhat 7.2 (I know, I'm not a true diehard - been there, done that, now I want the easy life :), and with my own compiles of KDE very rarely see anything crash.
In fact (as you say), just about the only things that *do* crash are bits of Konqueror. Javascript in KDE2 is known to be a bit buggy -- it's been cleaned up and extended in KDE3, enough that it'll be enabled by default.
(KDE3's looking good, by the way - I advise you to switch to it when it comes out. Compile it yourself as well, it's just as easy as getting packages.)_
-- Help Digitise the Public Domain at DP.
to that guy who called this 'troll' if you know it better you can give a clear reply why you think this gonna be a troll. i for my own work with these people all day long and probably know more about them than many others. not to mention that i know many facts about the backgrounds that you probably dont know. i for my own dont see any reason why i should keep this a secret.
There's only one thing that I want changed, and that's the stock "OK" button. If you haven't noticed by now, the "OK" button has the "return" arrow on it. Why does this matter? It's the exact same image that is on my "enter" key. Everytime I see the that icon, I think, "That button looks just like the 'enter' key on my keyboard. That button must be associated with this key." Which isn't a problem if "OK" is the default, but alot of time it's not. Alot of times the default is "cancel".
But the icon on the keyboard doesn't indicate the default action. Instead a 5 pixel inset the exact same color of the dialog's background is placed around the default button.
Now I ask you, which is more eye catching, I a 20x20 color image, or a 4 thin black lines?
Which conveys a sense of what key is associtated with which button? A picture of what's on the key, or 4 thin black lines?
It's as if, you have a button marked "Q" and when you press it, you get "esc".