Mozilla.org Announces Open Source Calendar

Mike Potter writes: "According to an article at Mozillazine.org, Mozilla.org will be releasing an open source calendar. "Thanks to an extremely generous offer of code from OEone Corporation, the new calendar project will have a significant codebase to start from. OEone make Penzilla, an operating environment for internet devices based on Linux and Mozilla. ... For more information on, and a technical description of Penzilla Calendar, see OEone's website." I think we'll be seeing a lot more applications built with Mozilla, now that its stable." Mundane as it may sound, with tabs in place (and behaving more sanely), a good calendar is probably my most-wished-for Mozilla feature. The screenshots certainly bode well for this one.

Comments

Now after this, all mozillla needs is....

[the_2nd_coming]

A custom E-mail server....multi platform, free, F- exchange server+outlook.

Re:Now after this, all mozillla needs is....

[bn557]

I was thinking, this has the potential of being a replacement for outlook. Outlook is the ONLY thing keeping me tied to MS at work. I'm sure that somone could kludge this piece of software to get it to interact with exchange server.

On a side note... mozilla's bloat factor is getting pretty high. I'm glad you can get the source and compile it browser only.

Pat

Re:Now after this, all mozillla needs is....

[SquadBoy]

http://packages.debian.org/unstable/non-us/evoluti on-ssl.html
Works very well with Exchange. :)

Re:Now after this, all mozillla needs is....

[bn557]

well fricken A dood, I searched for an hour last night, but I'm pretty lazy. Had I known that the all knowing /. had the answer, I'da asked sooner.

Pat

Re:Now after this, all mozillla needs is....

[xanadu-xtroot.com]

This is MAJOR miss-information (as far as I can tell). The only setup I can find is for POP/SMTP servers. Yes, I understand Exchange supports POP/SMTP, but it comes with the REAL secure thing known as clear text logins. I disabled POP and SMTP on my Exchange server years ago because of this.

Re:Now after this, all mozillla needs is....

[the_2nd_coming]

ermm a seerver would not be a bundled product since it has to run on a remote machine....and the ability to interact with it would not be that much code.

Re:Now after this, all mozillla needs is....

[IntlHarvester]

You can't force Exchange to use SSL for that stuff?

Hopefully you also got rid of the super-secure LanMan hash authentication along with the other cleartext protocols.

I understand some Exchange admins don't like IMAP because it's yet another route to database corruption, but if that has been fixed there's really no reason to disallow it.

Re:Now after this, all mozillla needs is....

[Anonymous Coward]

Whether non-MS software can work with Outlook/Exchange is dependent upon whether they're configured to require MS proprietary validation. For details see the recent article which pointed out MSN's configuration of their mail servers to require an MS-only authorization protocol.

Open Source Calendar?

[Mike Schiraldi]

Awesome! I always thought Thursday was a stupid name. I think i'll call it Mikesday.

Re:Open Source Calendar?

[bn557]

I'm gonna make mine call every day friday and a mandatory 5:00 bar event on each and every friday.

On second thought, this would suck, cuz you'd never get a weekend off.

HMMM.....

Re:Open Source Calendar?

[gorilla]

I never could get the hang of Thursdays.

Re:Open Source Calendar?

[Russ Steffen]

You need to make your week three days long. Friday, Saturday and Sunday. It would be great if Friday could start at 5:00pm, too.

Re:Open Source Calendar?

[bn557]

actually, now that I've thought about it quite a bit... time doesn't have to be linear... so 9am M-5pm f can take place in a 15 minute(our frame of refernce) time, then friday 5 pm til sunday 5 pm could be like 2 weeks.

Pat

Re:Open Source Calendar?

[Anonymous Coward]

Too bad it just wasn't funny.

Re:Open Source Calendar?

[flacco]

Will that, like, have nude pinups of RMS and ESR?

There goes breakfast...

next step....

[jeffy124]

making it possible for one person to access another's calander (given proper permissions) and viola! An open source alternative to MS Exchange!

Re:next step....

[JohnHegarty]

This will lead to security problems... you know the type

This is a mail from XXX , we need you to do this with your calender.

Re:next step....

[jeffy124]

not necessarily ... Exchange systems permissions are set by an administrator, so if someone were to send an email saying "Do this" where "this" is removing permissions, it'll get the sender no where.

So if an open source version were being used, one would have an admin set up the permissions such that users could not modify them.

Re:next step....

[drsquare]

Well that's good isn't it. Having to contact the administrator every time you want to change something.

Re:next step....

[jeffy124]

well, how often would someone need to change permissions on some things? We use Exchange at work, and those calls are very rare.

feature creep?

[DNS-and-BIND]

Isn't this creeping featuritis? All I want for Christmas is Mozilla 1.0...

Re:feature creep?

[zmooc]

Yes, but that they're going to start a calendar-project doesn't mean that it will slow the mozilla-development. In theory... I sure hope they keep these things seperated. In my opinion they should also have separated the browser from the mail&news-client etc.

Re:feature creep?

[edwdig]

a) The Mozilla team is simply checking it in to the tree so that other people can work on it. They aren't touching it until after 1.0.

b) The browser is the only part of Mozilla that is required. Everything else can be turned off during the install.

So what's the problem?

Re:feature creep?

[Liquor]

Yes, it is. But at least this is in the 'add-on' category, rather than being an 'integrated' feature.

Just so long as it isn't so integrated that an 'invitation to a meeting' that gets automatically added to your calendar will run an accompanying script in the process.

I'd really hate it if this 'Look-Out' work-alike managed to provide work-alike functionality for malware.

Re:feature creep?

[Anonymous Coward]

The problem is that the vast majority of people just wanted a fast, stable, standards compliant browser to replace Navigator 4 as soon as possible. The problem is that the project added many features that are not essential for browsing (mail, news, IRC, XUL, etc.) before releasing the browser. Essentially, the release of the part that most people wanted (the browser) has been held hostage by directing resources to work on the things that most people don't want. The Gecko engine was ready a long time ago, and if the project had concentrated on getting a stable browser out before moving on to other things, we would have seen 1.0 already. If the current trend continues, Mozilla will be obsolete (standards wise) by the time it is released.

Re:feature creep?

[NutscrapeSucks]

You say "vast majority", but in my experience, the few weirdos left using Netscape (on Windows/Mac) are doing so because they've standardized on the mail client.

Of course, releasing buggy crap like the NS6 mail client was probably worse than not releasing a mail client at all.

Re:feature creep?

[DrXym]

It won't necessarily slow things down and if it does it'll be for the right reasons.

One of the principle goals of Mozilla is to produce an application platform for developing applications just like this. It goes without saying that the more disparate kind of apps you have hammering away on this platform, the more robust and stable it becomes.

So if it does slow things down, it's only because it's finding bugs that would otherwise bite later on.

Re:feature creep?

[SEWilco]

This calendar-project will only slow mozilla-development if the latter uses the former to schedule mozilla-development activities.

Re:feature creep?

[zmooc]

So if it does slow things down, it's only because it's finding bugs that would otherwise bite later on.

I don't think that is the only possible reason; if Mozilla is going to work in this project, it will require time from developers, administrators (bugzilla etc.) and management. This may lead to a situation where less mannpower is available for other projects. I'm not saying this will happen, but it's a possibility.

Nice...

[C0vardeAn0nim0]

more bloat. that's everyting we, owners of obsolete machines, ever wanted. Thanks Mozilla guys.

Re:Nice...

[plover]

Hey, mozilla already barges around my machine throwing 27MB of weight around just to display a stupid picture of a penguin with a cell phone, Bilgatus of Borg, etc. Another 5MB for a calendar is chump change.

Remember, they chose the mozilla icon as a representation of its memory footprint, not because it's an industry dominator.

John

no challenge points for spotting the troll here... :-)

Re:Nice...

[pivo]

Nobody's forcing you use newer software. Why don't you just stick with kernel 1.2.3, that was pretty solid if I remember and it ran well on my 486 with 16M of memory.

For the majority of us who aren't living in the past (and who have the $25 it takes to add 128M of RAM), we do like the option of using the hardware we paid for. You don't want to spoil that for us, do you?

Re:Nice...

[Anonymous Coward]

Dude, if I was going to use some semblance of modern hardware, I'd be using WinXP or Win2K, since they use it well. Must of us using Linux are running it because we're using 486 or original Pentium computers. So spare us your high and mighty act, okay?

Re:Nice...

[Anonymous Coward]

Dude, if I was going to use some semblance of modern hardware, I'd be using WinXP or Win2K, since they use it well. Must of us using Linux are running it because we're using 486 or original Pentium computers. So spare us your high and mighty act, okay?

Um, no actually I use it Linux because it's better than Windows. My P4 1.8GHz would be insulted, but it's too busy laughing at your computer instead.

PIM's on Computers not such a good idea

[euroderf]

I like PIM's, but myself I stick to a file-o-fax. It doesn't crash or lose data, and is easy to read, never runs out of batteries and is portable. I don't see what advantage a computer would bring, it would tie me down and lose data.

But my main gripe is the interactivity of the new PIM's, like Outlook Express in Office XP. They allow one's data to be inspected by one's superior, and make for an invasion of personal space by the hierarchy at work.

One of my girlfriends Joselle had to cancel a date with me because her boss inserted a work appointment at the same time, without notice, and she had to obey.

The only way to be truly provate and control your schedule is to have it written down privately. Computers allow for the domination of one's calendar by the digital elite.

Re:PIM's on Computers not such a good idea

[eMilkshake]

Yeah, yeah, no batteries, but once a year, it's time to refill the pages! And all the pens you have to buy. Now if you said you bought a memory-enhancing tape and no longer need to keep appointment notes, then I would be impressed.

Re:PIM's on Computers not such a good idea

[Anonymous Coward]

Just say "Sorry I already had something planned for that time." If the boss doesn't like it tell him to fuck off.

Re:PIM's on Computers not such a good idea

[chinton]

What does her boss setting up a meeting with her have to do with PIM's on a computer? Was the reason he set the meeting at that time because he saw that she had a personal engagement, or because he needed to see her? How is inserting a meeting into your electronic schedule by your boss any more binding that your boss walking up to you and telling you that you need to be a this meeting?

Re:PIM's on Computers not such a good idea

[bXTr]

>>> I like PIM's, but myself I stick to a file-o-fax. It doesn't crash or lose data, and is easy to read, never runs out of batteries and is portable. I don't see what advantage a computer would bring, it would tie me down and lose data

Computers don't run out of ink. :) Seriously, having your schedule/task list/address book on a computer, or PDA for that matter, isn't necessarily faster than pen and paper, but it does allow more things to be done with the information that's on it.

>>> But my main gripe is the interactivity of the new PIM's, like Outlook Express in Office XP. They allow one's data to be inspected by one's superior, and make for an invasion of personal space by the hierarchy at work.

It being a M$ product not withstanding, I rather like the idea of my boss(es) being able to check my tasks and my progress without having to bug me with meetings and phone calls, and just let me work.

>>> One of my girlfriends Joselle had to cancel a date with me because her boss inserted a work appointment at the same time, without notice, and she had to obey.

Sorry to hear that, but that's what bosses tend to do.

>>> The only way to be truly provate and control your schedule is to have it written down privately. Computers allow for the domination of one's calendar by the digital elite.

I disagree. Collaboration, like this, is necessary to be more efficient in the workplace. Your boss(es) having the ability to check your tasklist and schedule can alleviate confusion and conflicts that would only lead to more stress for you and everyone else. Really, it's a good thing. :)

Re:PIM's on Computers not such a good idea

[Anonymous Coward]

> Just say "Sorry I already had something planned for that time." If the boss doesn't like it tell him to fuck off.

ROTFL! How tactful. And just how many jobs have you been fired from in your short career?..

Re:PIM's on Computers not such a good idea

[Anonymous Coward]

3, but I've decided that I'm too good for employment. And I'm not even counted as 'unemployed,' since I haven't looked for a job in the past four months.

Re:PIM's on Computers not such a good idea

[k_187]

Just a question, but how is your girlfriend's writing down your date on paper going to keep her boss from expecting her to work?

Re:PIM's on Computers not such a good idea

[Steeltoe]

Yeah, yeah, no batteries, but once a year, it's time to refill the pages! And all the pens you have to buy. Now if you said you bought a memory-enhancing tape and no longer need to keep appointment notes, then I would be impressed.

[sarcasm on]If you were smart you would buy a filofax with paper you can insert and withdraw. No need to re-enter your whole adress-book every year. If you weren't lazy, you wouldn't mind. Not to mention the fact that if you actually had a life, you would really need a filofax anyway.[sarcasm off ;] Hope you don't take sarcasm personally :)

- Steeltoe

Re:PIM's on Computers not such a good idea

[Teun]

One of my girlfriends Joselle had to cancel a date with me because her boss inserted a work appointment at the same time, without notice, and she had to obey.

Just the example where a shared calendar should/would come in handy, the 'other party' (boss) could see the other appointment at this time.
The fact he still put his appointment on the same time must mean he had no alternative, asuming he was at least half human....

Re:PIM's on Computers not such a good idea

[scrytch]

YHBT. HAND. The fact that it was modded up as "insightful" sure says a lot about the insight of the moderators tho...

Re:PIM's on Computers not such a good idea

[netsharc]

One of my girlfriends

"One of your girlfriends"? How many do you have? Pfft you're just trying to make us jealous, bragging about "one of your girlfriends"... :)

I just did a search

[ajuda]

I just did a search for "calendar" on freshmeat... 131 projects found
Do we really need mozilla to include yet another thing which we can just find somewhere else? Before we know it, Mozilla will include its own kernel! And they are wondering why 1.0 is soooo far off?

Re:I just did a search

[Zach Garner]

Most, if not all of them suck. Here are a few quick things I've found:

Many are based on things like php and zope, requireing both a webserver and application server software. A number of them require mysql or other database software. Many are entirely web based (from my experience limits usability for calendar software), a few others are only commandline. And because we are talking about freshmeat, I would bet a large portion of that 131 projects are still in an early stage of developement and simply not usable.

Only 10 have a popularity rating above 0.00%
Only 7 have a viability rating above 0.00%

Mozilla is/will be both stable and platform independant. It will not require a database back end. It also probably will not require you to view your calendar in simple html.

Re:I just did a search

[Anonymous Coward]

They are in a competition with Emacs I bet.

Re:I just did a search

[Anonymous Coward]

"Mozilla is/will be both stable and platform independant. It will not require a database back end. It also probably will not require you to view your calendar in simple html."

PHP+MYSQL+Apache+Konqueror(/Opera for non linux sytems) take less ram on my system than Mozilla. The web based ones are also as platform independant as Mozilla since PHP, Mysql and Apache are available for every platform Bloatzilla is.

Re:I just did a search

[schon]

Before we know it, Mozilla will include its own kernel!

STOP GIVING THEM IDEAS!

Re:I just did a search

[Anonymous Coward]

"Many are based on things like php and zope, requireing both a webserver and application server software. A number of them require mysql or other database software. Many are entirely web based (from my experience limits usability for calendar software), a few others are only commandline."

...and these are bad things because?...more info please, I don't see the point of your objections here. Your other points about pre-pre-alpha projects, yes, but the above, no.

Re:I just did a search

[ChrisCampbell47]

I just did a search for "calendar" on freshmeat... 131 projects found

(Score:-1, Troll)

And I'm sure all 131 are A) able to communicate to other calendaring apps, B) compliant with the 3 RFC's, and C) cross platform.

Mod both me and the parent down, please.

Re:I just did a search

[cjpez]

Vitality ratings on Freshmeat are a joke. Unless you release a new version every day, you don't have a prayer of making over the 2% mark. (I'm exaggerating, but still.)

Linux itself has 21%. This for an OS that has a new version every three weeks or so (not counting the Alan Cox "Hi I'm a Juggernaut and Can Compose Kernel Diffs In My Head" releases). It says that vitality is "based on age of project, number of announcements and date of last announcement." So if I don't announce every CVS checkin my project isn't healthy?

Bah. Freshmeat's vitality system has GOT to be revamped. I'm not saying it's not a potentially good measure of a project, but I think it's way off.

Aside from that, though, yeah. If more people decided to work WITH existing projects to make them BETTER instead of setting off to build "the best darn CD player there is for X11," we might have less projects, but the overall quality of each would be better.

Re:I just did a search

[MindStalker]

I have to point out, that sourceforge carries huge amounts of uncreated programs. Freshmeat deals exculsivly in programs that actually have working code you can use. Try and find a program on freshmeat that doesn't have a stable version available. Now try and find a program that does have a stable version available in sourceforge. You can't find either can you?
(JK about the second part, but I really wish sourceforge out have seperate sections for projects with stable branches, and ones without, but then again, thats what freshmeat is for)

Re:I just did a search

[Zach Garner]

It just seems silly for me to install a Webserver, an Application Server, and a RDBMS just to run a calendar program. I'm already running Mozilla, why not have the option of using an integrated calendar program?

Personally, I have Apache, Jakarata/Tomcat and Postgresql running on my home LAN. I really have better things to do than to install php or zope and mysql and have to administer those as well. I'm willing to bet this is the same opinion of some system admins in a corporate environment.

Despite the "platform independance" of apache/mysql/php, A windows user simply will not go to the trouble. Additionally, I do not think its a good idea for a workstation (or a win95 box) to be running server software.
Of course, I'm speaking as a single user. When you get into groupware, things change. The web-based systems probably work much better in that case, and if you already have apache/php/mysql, it isnt that much trouble to get most of those systems working.

Simple said, non-webbased systems like Korganizer work better for me. A calendar integrated with mozilla would work even better since I could use it on windows if I ever have to.

Re:I just did a search

[Zach Garner]

First, I agree with what you say. Especially about sourceforge.

The problem is there are stable versions on freshmeat that do not have features that are required for serious use. A lot of the calendar programs that I tried a few months back did not have the ability to create Todo lists. I *need* that feature.

I'm sure that only a handfull of the 100+ projects with 'calendar' in their name are reasonably full featured calendar programs.

Re:I just did a search

[whitehorse]

wondering why 1.0 is soooo far off?

If you read the 1.0 manifesto you'll see that they are working to stabilize the API so additions like this can happen _without_ effecting schedule. That is the beauty of the mozilla, building new apps on the foundation of existing standard technology with XUL + your own XPCOMs. Is does not appear that the foundation will need to be changed for for the new application. XUL is good!

Re:I just did a search

[Anonymous Coward]

Sounds like a project I worked which was 1) A MS-style web app, and 2) Had the last minute requirement that it had to run on a disconnected laptop.

So, we installed IIS, ASP, MS-SQL personal edition as a replicaiton slave, etc on a bunch of laptops. The admins thought they were doing their jobs properly, but guess who's laptops got hacked?

(Insert pissing and moaning about IIS here, but local installs of apache/mysql/php would also be an admin bitch.)

Re:I just did a search

[MindStalker]

Well I'm hoping that we will have the option of having a backend, like outlook does. Without the proprietary stuff. And without the limits. As there are many things that outlook could do via imap but it refuses to because it wants you to buy their server.

Re:I just did a search

[yesthatguy]

That could be good for embedded systems, actually. Little web tablets running Mozilla.

Re:I just did a search

[flacco]

I just did a search for "calendar" on freshmeat... 131 projects found Do we really need mozilla to include yet another thing which we can just find somewhere else?

OK, let's start off by scratching all the web-only clients.

Now scratch the ones that are not cross-platform.

Now scratch the ones that are simply not usable or in a state of suspended animation.

Finally, scratch the ones that don't easily interact with your mail client.

Ta-da - you've gone from 131 projects down to precisely zero.

There are a LOT of people for whom the major obstacle to a Linux desktop is that goddamn foul filthy contemptible Outlook+Exchange combination. If we can replace this we have won a major battle.

I have been waiting for this for a LOOOOOONG time - I fervently hope this works out.

Re:I just did a search

[flacco]

As there are many things that outlook could do via imap but it refuses to because it wants you to buy their server.

This is SO obvious...

Recently, as part of the process of SHUTTING DOWN and THROWING AWAY our Exchange server, I switched our users' Outlook clients from Corporate to Internet Only mode. I found that not only will it not store calendar items on an IMAP server (which I understood already), but it would not store "special folders" there like Drafts and Sent Items. This is patently ridiculous.

If you search MSKB for ways to do this stuff, you can almost *hear* their eyes shifting around as they claim this is for compatibility or performance reasons or some other bullshit lie of an excuse. It sounds very much like the current MSN browser block thing, which, as we all know, is because other browsers aren't "standards-compliant" and can't fully render the "MSN experience" (pardon me while I throw up).

I'm SO thankful our group did not get heavily into shared calendar usage, or we'd be locked in for sure. Having a multi-user calendar in Mozilla (eventually) will be a huge boon to people trying to get the Exchange/Outlook monkey of their backs. They should name this project "Methadone".

NOT Feature Creep - will be post-1.0

[Kelson]

Gerv has stated on MozillaZine that while the intent is to get it into the tree so interested outside developers can start messing around with it, they won't be actively working on it until after Mozilla 1.0 is released.

why not give this to gnome or kde instead?

[cheesyfru]

On what planet does it make sense to integrate a calendar into a web browser? A web browser is by nature a real-time program -- you decide you want to view a page, you view the page, you walk away happy. A calendar application, while useful in general, adds no value to Mozilla.

Why doesn't this company donate the source for this calendar to something with more reach like a windowing environment? I'd *love* to have a calendar nicely integrated with the whole computer, not just the web browser. It'd also do a lot to convince more novice users that Linux is a friendly environment.

Re:why not give this to gnome or kde instead?

[elefantstn]

First of all, I think they're donating to Mozilla because it's built on Moz technology (XUL, etc.). But since it will presumably be GPL (like the rest of Mozilla), there's no reason Gnome or KDE can't use it. What does it matter if it was donated "to" them? It's GPL, Gnome/KDE are GPL, if it's good, put it in there!

Re:why not give this to gnome or kde instead?

[Tim Macinta]

Mozilla is more cross platform than Gnome or KDE (i.e., it runs on Windows at least as well as Linux, from what I've seen). If OEone wants to target Windows users, then using XPCOM and the other Mozilla technologies make more sense than Gnome or KDE. Remember, they're not using the Mozilla browser, but rather the cross platform toolkit that the browser also happens to be built on top of.

Re:why not give this to gnome or kde instead?

[Nicopa]

It makes sense to integrate an e-mail application with a web browser:

• People want to read rich HTML e-mail.
  
• People want to compose rich HTML, and the same composer is used in the web browser to create web -pages.
  

Now, it makes sense to integrate a a calendar application with an e-mail client, for obvious reasons.

You might say that what we need is a set of interfaces so *different* applications can coexist. But that is what Mozilla is! Everything is a component providing a set of functions (exported via XPCOM) to the rest of mozilla.

Re:why not give this to gnome or kde instead?

[MrResistor]

Why don't you take the code and integrate it with KDE or Gnome yourself? You have the itch, scratch it. All the tools and a big pile of source code are there. Welcome to Open Source!

Mozilla is not just a browser. The purpose of Mozilla is to provide a higher quality software base for the Netscape Communications Suite, that's why the Mozilla source was opened in the first place. A communications suite certainly has need of a calendar app, and therefore this third party add-on does add value to the Mozilla package.

It wasn't given to KDE or Gnome directly because it wasn't designed for KDE or Gnome. And why would it be? OEone is a company, and companies want their product to be available to the maximum number of people possible. Mozilla targets almost 100% of desktops, more than any other software I know of. KDE is used on maybe 1% of desktops. I don't think it's any mystery why a company would design their software to work with Mozilla rather than KDE.

It was extremely gracious and generous of OEone to release the source to their code. It is a gift to the community! We should say thank you, and if it isn't useful to you, either do the work to make it useful or shut the hell up.

If this is the kind of attitude companies are met with when they decide to open their source code, is it any wonder so many companies don't?

Re:why not give this to gnome or kde instead?

[Gerv]

Mozilla is not GPL. Some parts of it are available under an MPL/LGPL/GPL tri-license.

Gerv

Re:why not give this to gnome or kde instead?

[flacco]

On what planet does it make sense to integrate a calendar into a web browser?

On the same planet where people like to have their calendar along-side their mail reader?

I'd *love* to have a calendar nicely integrated with the whole computer, not just the web browser. It'd also do a lot to convince more novice users that Linux is a friendly environment.

I agree, but the important thing is to GET the person to actually become a novice - i.e., take that first step and try Linux. This is MUCH easier if that person knows that their web/mail/news/PIM application will be pretty much exactly the same whether they're in Windows or Linux.

The ideal would be to have Mozilla and Evolution and GNOME Calendar and other mail / PIM clients use the same calendaring data store. That way once the novice becomes a Linux devotee, he/she can pick and choose from a variety of calendars.

Re:why not give this to gnome or kde instead?

[flacco]

Why don't you take the code and integrate it with KDE or Gnome yourself? You have the itch, scratch it. All the tools and a big pile of source code are there. Welcome to Open Source!

Gee, thanks for the news flash! But what if this guy, like countless others who might have an interest in using open source, DON'T FUCKING WRITE CODE? Sometimes that itch is in a place that the end-user cannot reach - you know, that spot right in the middle of your back...?

Sorry to yell, but the patronizing "write it yourself" refrain gets a little tiresome sometimes. We need an easy, acceptable way for non-programmers to pool their resources and get the software THEY want written.

Re:why not give this to gnome or kde instead?

[MrResistor]

what if this guy, like countless others who might have an interest in using open source, DON'T FUCKING WRITE CODE?

I know there are countless users of open source software that don't write code, I'm one of them. I realized that I had 2 choices when it came to getting Linux to do exactly what I want, either find someone who can code and get them to do the work, or learn to code and do it myself. I chose to learn to code, so I bought some books and I'm struggling through it. Sure it's tiresome to hear "write it yourself", but it's more tiresome to hear people bitching about something that's being given to them for free! I'm tired of listening to all these pathetic whiners saying "why'd they do it that way or not do it this way and why doesn't it have this feature..." The vast majority of the code is produced by people working on their own time and for their own reasons, and they provide their code to the rest of the world for free just because they are cool guys. They certainly don't do it to support a bunch of 1337 h4x0rs whos only contribution to the community is spewing flames at Windows users!

I'm not suggesting that you or the other guy are that bad, but Christ, show some fucking gratitude when somebody gives you something!

Re:why not give this to gnome or kde instead?

[flacco]

I'm not suggesting that you or the other guy are that bad, but Christ, show some fucking gratitude when somebody gives you something!

I think you missed the point of my post. Of course I'm grateful for the software that I use all day, every day. My point was that there needs to be a better way of addressing the needs of end-user software users than telling them to write code. I want to see open source and Linux thrive - and I mean beyond its current market share (what is it on the desktop - something under 1%?).

Re:why not give this to gnome or kde instead?

[MrResistor]

there needs to be a better way of addressing the needs of end-user software users than telling them to write code.

I have one problem with this statement, and that is the use of the word "need". It treats Linux like a business, which it isn't. SuSE and Red Hat are businesses, and if you're looking for somewhere to suggest features, those are likely excellent places to start. I suppose that would be the third option to the two I mentioned before. It would certainly be nice to have a better way to address the needs of the average user. I would love to see a site where I could donate money for a feature, and other people who wanted that same feature could donate also, until the project is worth enough for someone to take it on. I recall an article on /. a while back that brought up this idea, and I have seen developer sites with messages posted to the effect of "I will pay someone $3000 if they can add [feature] to [project]" (unfortunately I can't remember where I saw that and I haven't run across anything like it recently).

I would even be interested in starting a site to do this from, but I don't have the resources to do it myself. Initial investment would include a server(s) that can at least pretend to handle the initial slashdoting when the service is opened, and some cash to open an account with a descent interest rate. My plan is this: the donations are made by [check, credit card, paypal, whatever] and held in this interest bearing account. When a project is completed, the triumphant coder get's a check equal to the donations and the site keeps the interest to cover overhead. Will it work? I don't know. It depends on how popular the service becomes. Worst case would be that people don't choose to use it, next worst is the site has to take a small percentage of the reward to help cover costs.

I worked for a company a while back that was a facilitator for 1031 delayed exchanges for aircraft, exchange meaning trade for like item, like trading one plane for another (you could also do this with houses and other big ticket items). The delayed exchange allowed you to sell the plane and keep that money tax free for the purchase of another plane within a year (as I recall, I was just doing data entry). The money had to be held in escrow by a third party (the facilitator) in order for it to be tax free, but the facilitator requirement was removed a few years ago. This particular company's fee was one quarter of one percent (.25%) of the amount held.

We wouldn't need office space, as the servers could be in my house (my lines are capable of 6M DSL, but my wallet isn't :( , another reason I can't go it alone on this). If anyone's seriously interested in something like this, drop me a line. I read all responses to my /. posts, the email above is valid (save /.'s anti-spam mangling) and the link on my user page will give you my daytime phone number (ask for Pete). If you'd rather steal my idea and do it yourself, go for it. All I ask is that you send a thank you my way, it doesn't even have to be publicly acknowledged.

I would love to see Linux dominate the desktop as well, and that's where my fledgling hacking skills are aimed. The "code it yourself" response is a direct result of so many coming to open source expecting to get something for nothing. That isn't what it's about, a contribution is still required for everything to work smoothly, but that contribution doesn't have to be monetary. I haven't seen the statement that "linux is only free if your time is worthless" lately, but it's still equally valid.

Arg.

[reddeno]

So much for releasing Mozilla by the end of next year.

An *excellent* calendar

[benploni]

Want an *excellent* calendar? See: http://korganizer.kde.org/

Korganizer has alarms, ical import, html export, kmail integration, and more. And it isn't massively bloated by Mozilla things like XUL, XPCOM and it's nasty brethren.
Some screenshots:
http://korganizer.kde.org/screenshots/main.gif
http://korganizer.kde.org/screenshots/event.gif
http://korganizer.kde.org/screenshots/preference s. gif
http://korganizer.kde.org/screenshots/webexport. gi f
http://korganizer.kde.org/screenshots/find.gif

Use it enjoy it, and contribute to it.

Re:An *excellent* calendar

[txsable]

perhaps, but how many platforms does it run on? Anything that runs KDE, probably, but last time I checked, Windows doesn't run KDE...and what's needed is a viable calendar project that runs on not just Linux, but on Windows, Mac, BEOS, etc...

Re:An *excellent* calendar

[FortKnox]

What??

I'm perfectly happy with Emacs' calendar.

And, after that comment, I'll duck.

Re:An *excellent* calendar

[Webmonger]

Windows will run KDE. So will Mac OS X. We just had an article about that.

Re:An *excellent* calendar

[mkelley]

yes, but what else does it run on? not everyone uses KDE and this would at least enable people to use it on Linux, Mac, OS/2, maybe Win32 soon.

Re:An *excellent* calendar

[Webmonger]

'scuse me-- I meant QT, not KDE.
That should be all that's required.

Re:An *excellent* calendar

[Spy Hunter]

The future of KDE Personal Information Management applications looks good. Instead of going the "me-too-Outlook-clone" route, they are keeping each application separate (but still connected). The KDE PIM website has info on the various programs in the KDE PIM suite, and this page has a roadmap for future development for 3.0.

Re:An *excellent* calendar

[Anonymous Coward]

Not quite a groupware product yet; from the site:

"Don't hesitate to tell us, if you are interested in becoming part of this exciting community, bringing forward the Linux desktop. Plenty of new features await implementation, documentation, translation and testing.

Some of these new features are group scheduling, synchronisation with PDAs, mobile phones and similar devices, a wider range of alarm notifications, project management capabilities, more and improved views of calendar data, and lots more...

All this will eventually become true, but you can speed up the process by helping us. Any contributions are welcome."

If the Mozilla calendar supports group scheduling, meeting room scheduling, etc it will be welcomed in companies before Korganizer (which looks *very* good for personal calendaring needs, btw).

Re:An *excellent* calendar

[greenrd]

That's completely besides the point. Qt for Windows isn't free as in speech or as in beer. So, no surprise that no-one seems to be distributing KDE programs for Windows.

Re:An *excellent* calendar

[mj6798]

Too bad korganizer requires a lot of KDE and Qt libraries, and it probably requires you to run bits and pieces of the KDE desktop. (In terms of bloat, if you do run the whole KDE desktop, it takes up more than 100M of memory, so don't point fingers at Mozilla.) And I have yet to see an actual distribution of KDE software for an OS other than Linux.

In terms of functionality, I didn't find it too impressive either: limited drag-and-drop functionality, little groupware functionality, little web integration, lots of annyoing dialog boxes.

KOrganizer is s nice looking, basic organizer. But as far as I'm concerned, it isn't the ultimate organizer by a long shot. A calendar add-on to Mozilla reaches more people and takes up less space. I don't know how good the OEone calendar is, but it certainly makes a lot of sense.

In other news...

[brunes69]

In addition to MozCalander, and MozOffice, the Mozilla organization has annouced MozSink, an Open Source replacement for the Kitchen Sink(tm). It is believed that this could revolutionize Open Source development.

Re:In other news...

[tjwhaynes]

In addition to MozCalander, and MozOffice, the Mozilla organization has annouced MozSink, an Open Source replacement for the Kitchen Sink(tm). It is believed that this could revolutionize Open Source development.

I wondered when Emacs would get embedded in Mozilla ;-)

Cheers,

Toby Haynes

Re:In other news...

[frankie]

In addition to MozCalander, and MozOffice, the Mozilla organization has annouced MozSink,

Now if only they'd add a MozColander plugin for the MozSink, I'd have a complete toolkit to make Mac-n-Cheese on the desktop.

GHz Athlon + GeForce3 are hot enough to boil the water, and you put the noodles in an AWT container object of course.

Re:In other news...

[Fencepost]

Are they going to add MozColander as well?

Re:In other news...

[Anonymous Coward]

Moz Office doesn't exist. Take a look at what they have on www.mozdev.org.

Re:In other news...

[flacco]

Are they going to add MozColander as well?

Mo'Zoolander ?

BLUE STEEL!

A calendar?

[NineNine]

Could someone explain to me what a calendar has to do with a web browser? This seems to me to be extreme feature creep, the likes of which I've never seen before. With more and more bloat, IE is starting to look light in comparison. Is it perhaps an attempt to delay releasing an actual consumer ready version of Mozilla?

Re:A calendar?

[Kelson]

Read further. This won't get developed until AFTER Mozilla 1.0.

As for browser/calendar integration, I think it may be more associated with the email client than the browser.

Re:WHAT moderator, buttmunch?

[Anonymous Coward]

that's why i said "nip this in the bud," as in get people to recognize the troll before it gets modded up. don't be so fucking stupid.

Alternative Calendar Systems

[shpoffo]

The project is a bit far fro my immediate scope - but is teh system compatible with non-gregorian calendar systems? I know most of peopel from live the Gregorian way, but there are a few of us that use something different - like the 13-moon calendar that the planet acutally functions on - not some arbitrary separations of nomenclature.

13 moon positions and 20 sun positions over 13 moon cycles that are each 28 days in length. Which also happens to be the cycle which most females who are 'regular' have their menstruation periods by. This was the calendar system of the Mayans and happens to be the only system which acurately measures the procession of the Equinoxes - which has a much larger periodicity than most people think about....

-shpoffo

Re:Alternative Calendar Systems

[Anonymous Coward]

God are you weird.

Re:Alternative Calendar Systems

[Sc00ter]

Yah, I'll switch to that when the world switches to Metric Time

Re:Alternative Calendar Systems

[1010011010]

"Foundation for the Law of Time." Right. Galactic Tones and Solar Seals. Sheesh. Where's the Golden Solar Kool-Aid?

Re:Alternative Calendar Systems

[Xerithane]

I can understand a different calander system, but please don't tell me you buy into that crock that changing an arbitrary label given to structure systems will lead to world peace.

Course, if you do believe that I'll gladly sell you a pencil that will take care of all of your problems and let you obtain a perfect state of zen. Say hi to Xenu for me, too.

Re:Alternative Calendar Systems

[Mr_Icon]

We do not know how events will unfold in the next few years, but we had already set a goal, summer 2004, as the final opportunity for establishing the Thirteen Moon Calendar Change Peace Plan. The strategy to accomplish this plan has also been prepared - the Campaign for the New Time. Through this Campaign we must now mobilize for the New Time of Peace.

While I share the view that alternative calendars should be supported, this is some of the stupidest claptrap I've seen! Thirteen Moon Calendar Change Peace Plan? Change to it, and we will forever rid the world of war? That must be one of the most escapist solutions I've seen! Apart from that whole "kiss your freedoms good-bye" stuff.

Re:Alternative Calendar Systems

[Che Guevarra]

so are you going to pass that joint or what?

Re:Alternative Calendar Systems

[MindStalker]

No, it won't. Though it will support ical downloads which will allow to you to download and endless amounts of holidays that are preprogrammed. Unfortionaltly there isn't an easy mathematical way to compute all future solar calendar events. So these have to be added manually (via ical, but not via an ical calculation)

Re:Alternative Calendar Systems

[ksheff]

A new calendar will make all the evil people in the world go away? Are we all going to hold hands, stand in a circle and sing hippie campfire songs too? I hope they plan on sedating the rest of the planet with whatever mind altering drugs they are on, because that's probably the only way their fantasy would have a slightest chance of ever getting off the ground. Peace and freedom are usually things that one has to fight for. Or as Mr. Jefferson put it "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants".

Excellent news

[Starship Trooper]

We need high-profile projects like this and Komodo to show off the immense power of the Mozilla platform. All you people who whine about how it "needs to just be a browser" need to realise that Mozilla people went out to create a completely cross-platform application framework, using XUL, Gecko and all the other top-notch technologies they have developed. Far from only enabling surface features such as skinning and scriptability, the engine allows for a wide range of programs to be written once and then available to all Mozilla users.

With Java being removed from Windows XP, and AOL poised to start including a Mozilla-based browser in their next version of Internet software, Mozilla could very well become the cross-platform development environment of choice. Keep an eye out for more Mozilla-based projects like this to come.

Re:Excellent news

[Anonymous Coward]

It's not an add-on based on the XUL platform. It's something that has to be integrated into the main code trunk.

Lee

Re:Excellent news

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah I believe this technique is tried by Emacs too. Yet 90% of people use Emacs just as an editor and never as a web browser, ftp client, eliza program, mail reader, etc. The same goes with Netscape or Mozilla or whatever you want to call it. People just want to browse the web. Why would anyone want to read email or run a calendar or IDE as part of their web browser? It's just stupid. Remember, the Unix philosophy is "do one thing well." It is NOT "do one thing well then add a whole bunch of mediocre bloatware that no one will ever use."

Re:Excellent news

[HunterD]

Umm... That's because Emacs doesn't do any one of those things as well as stand alone programs written for that purpose.

Mozilla on the other hand is:

1. A cross platform framework.

2. A browser application written on TOP of that framework.

Composer is an editor written on top of the framework

Messenger is a mailer written on top of the framework

Chatzilla is an IRC app written on top of the framework

This Calendaring is another app written on top of the framework.

You don't want one? then don't build it (or don't install it)

Each of these apps is a seperate beasie, that can run alone (without the others). Each is intended to do one thing, and do it well (Browsing, Web Editing, Mail, and PIM). But, in the unix style of things - they all talk to each other very effectivly. This is useful, as the apps working together creates a package that is more then the sum of the parts.

Mozilla is my favorite browser, Messanger is my favorite Mailer. I can take or leave the current incarnation of Composer.

As other apps start working well in the Mozilla environment, I will pick and choose those which I choose to use - but the fact they all work well together makes the suite more effective.

Don't front on people's ability to try and work on tools that they want. Mozilla is gonna be released for 1.0 when it is released, and this will likely not change that date by so much as a week. I want (as many people) a suite of internet tools that function well with each other, and make my working life easier, instead of having to spend the time finding the bloody setting that lets my e-mail program launch links to my preferred browser, or dealing with any of the other annoyances of trying to get two packages to work well together that were not designed from the beginning to do so....

Mod Parent

[Bedouin X]

You my friend just stated the bottom line. If all of these bloat whiners understood this, the thread would be half as long.

Re:Mod Parent

[Anonymous Coward]

Unfortunately, you can't remove the single biggest contribution to bloat in Mozilla: XUL. That's why I use Galeon. And don't give me any shit about needing XUL to make a cross platform browser - the Navigator UI worked fine with native widgets.

Re:Mod Parent

[Bedouin X]

Sounds like you've removed it just fine. This is the beauty of Mozilla.

why not gnome or kde instead? XUL is why.

[Anonymous Coward]

Well if you went to the Oeone website, you would see that the whole ui has been built in XUL. It makes more sense therefore to give it to Mozilla than to KDE/GNOME who already are working on calendaring programs, and wouldn't appreciate porting XUL code to QT/GTK.

Finish your fucking browser first!

[melted]

Everybody's seek and tired of waiting for years for you to come up with something that just DOES WEB BROWSING and doesn't eat up all the available memory and doesn't crash every 5 minutes. Mosilla is the biggest open source fiasco ever.

Re:Finish your fucking browser first!

[Anonymous Coward]

Ok, simply put, Mozilla is a web browser, it is PERFECTLY FINE at doing what it does now, there's no need to wait for 1.0 to use it as a web browser. i don't see why everyone is so "we need 1.0 NOW" ... just use the damn thing, it isn't quite 1.0 quality but its good enough for me that it never crashes. so get off the finish he web browser shit, it does that just fine.

Excellent!

[alexhmit01]

Despite deploying and building our systems on UNIX platforms utilizing BSD/GPL systems, we have an NT 4.0 network with Exchange 5.5 running.

Why?

We need the coordination ability of Outlook. I haven't seen anything for UNIX that compares. The ability to schedule meetings, observe schedules, and otherwise coordinate things is extremely useful. I would love to replace the Exchange Server and backend infrastructure with Free Solutions, but they aren't there yet.

I use IE and Mozilla as my browsers (IE 6 is pretty flaky), but I am stuck on a Windows 2000 desktop (albeit with 3-4 SSH sessions going) because of collaboration tools, accounting tools, and office tools.

This is a step in the right direction for those looking to build Free solutions.

Alex

Re:Excellent!

[Zathrus]

Funny thing... I was actually talking about this kind of thing on IRC with some friends this morning. Well before I knew about this.

There really aren't many alternatives to Exchange right now. There's Notes, which is massive bloatware for most people - yes, it does more than just email/scheduling/calendaring, but most companies aren't interested in the "and more!" bit. Notes is pretty platform neutral though. There's also the Netscape/Sun iPlanet, which I'm unimpressed with from what I've seen.

Until there is a viable alternative to Exchange a lot of companies won't even bother looking at non-MS solutions. Because they're going to need the Exchange servers in place for what they currently use them for. Which means that you're stuck on an MS desktop. And a lot of CEO's and CIO's will question the value of moving servers off Windows as long as you still have to have some Windows servers.

Yes, these are all issues that can be worked around, but no matter what advocates might think, the reality is that this kind of thought process occurs daily and it's what keeps entrenhed companies entrenched. I know a lot of people will just say "well then they're stupid! Let them suffer for their own stupidity!" but realize that there are FAR more of "them" then there are of "us". You're living in the world of the unwashed masses, not vica versa.

It's not going to delay 1.0, it's going to bring something vitally needed to the table (eventually). It should be properly segmented out so as to avoid code bloat. This is a Good Thing.

Re:Excellent!

[alexborges]

phpgroupware... that compares and surpasses (in some cases).....

Re:Excellent!

[shayne321]

We need the coordination ability of Outlook. I haven't seen anything for UNIX that compares.

Okay, this doesn't completely compare to Outlook (yet), but keep an eye on the Horde Project. We've used IMP as our primary email system at my company for two years now. The horde project provides the framework for a system with integrated e-mail, a calendar, contacts management, and much more. Only a couple of modules are in active development, but the framework is pretty nice.. Should you want to lend a hand it's pretty easy to get involved.

I'm not affiliated with them in anyway, I just enjoy the fruits of their labor.

Shayne

Re:Excellent!

[Anonymous Coward]

Have you looked at any of Bynari's stuff? Perhaps they will do what you need?

Re:Excellent!

[alext]

He (or she) is correct - Bynari is positioned as an Exchange equivalent - please mod up.

cheers
alex

Re:Excellent!

[Arandir]

I hear you! Where I work we develop Unix applications using Unix workstations. We can't give up our Solaris, it's out of the question.

But times are tight. We had to cut back on our lunches, our perks, our benefits. But some bozo in another division thinks we all need to use Outlook Mail and Calendar instead of Netscape Mail and Calendar. So when we don't even have enough budget to authorize a lunch meeting with a client, we are going to rip out our Netscape servers and replace them with Outlook servers, and give everyone a new Dell/W2K box so sit alongside their Ultrasparcs.

This is so stupid even the M$ lackeys in IT are up in arms over it.

Oh well, since IT isn't going to "police" these machines, it's time to repartition.

Re:Excellent!

[Fnord]

Actually iPlanet's calendar server is pretty nice. From what I've seen (my company uses it) the server itself will do anything that Exchange does, only with a more open protocal. Unfortunately the only client right now for that protocal is the web application they bundle with it. Its that web app thats not so impressive, the underlying server is much nicer. Thing is, there has been talk on the evolution mailing list about giving evolution iPlanet support. If they ever get around to finishing this I will be so unbelievably happy. Besides the support for a real calendaring server (right now it does calendaring through email attachments) I would use evolution over outlook any day.

Sigh...

[KeyserDK]

If they would just concentrate on the browser engine, the browser engine and... yes the browser engine.

Why should my web browser start an entire application platform? I just want to view web pages.

I think the term bloat is very soon to be replaced by 'mozilla'. Their next idea is probably a new desktop envirement... like we need another one (/kde/gnome/windowmaker)

However this the great about open source. Other can use one good part from one project (gecko) and make other things better and more integrated (galeon).

Re:Sigh...

[Anonymous Coward]

Where do you think the Mo in Mozilla came from?

Mo betta butta

Does it mean the beast get bigger & slower?

[F50]

...

calendaring server

[austad]

When will someone release a calendar/scheduling server (like MS Exchange) for linux. This is a MAJOR thing holding it back from the corporate desktop. Yes, Lotus Notes and MS Exchange both have web interfaces, but if you've used them you would know that they suck.

PHPGroupware is sort of cool, but it's still browser based, and while that's nice from an accessibility standpoint, it sucks from a usability standpoint.

Step 1: Build Server
Step 2: Build clients which work with the server

Not the other way around.

Re:calendaring server

[SnapperHead]

You aren't following phpGroupWare development very well. :) We have been working on client side apps for a few months now, using XML-RPC / SOAP.

Remeber, phpGroupWare is still in beta.

Re:calendaring server

[seanmeister]

Step 1: Build Server
Step 2: Build clients which work with the server

Hey you forgot:

Step 3: Profit!

Re:calendaring server

[Anonymous Coward]

"PHPGroupware is sort of cool, but it's still browser based, and while that's nice from an accessibility standpoint, it sucks from a usability standpoint."

I haven't used a web-based group calendar; what are the problems with that approach? With the right kind of javascript in it, it would seem to be able to do whatever is needed.

Although, that means having javascript enabled all the time, which is an UGH.

Re:calendaring server

[bergie]

Midgard is a GPLd application server that has APIs for calendaring and contact management. Replication is naturally also supported.

/Bergie

Why?

[daemonc]

Because they can.

Nobody is going to force you to use it, or even download it, even if you do choose to use Mozilla as your browser. This component, like the mail/news, and all other components, will be optional.

while (software == free)
{
bitch();
moan();
}

Re:Why?

[Anonymous Coward]

Exactly, that's why IE will for ever dominate the browser market.

People always ask "why don't more people use open source / Free software..."

Then they tell you why and you say:

If you got a problem with it, then don't use it.

So they don't.

heh.

With an attitude like "well if you don't like it shut up and don't use it" then guess what, no ones gonna use it, which is fine, just don't act all bewildered when these projects get no market share.

Re:Why?

[daemonc]

If people say "Mozilla sucks!", I would say, "Why does it suck, and what can we do to make it better?"

However, that is not the case at the moment. People are saying, "I don't want to use a calendar in Mozilla." So I say, "The calendar is optional, don't use it if you don't want to, and quit complaining just because it's there." You would rather I demand that they use it anyway?

You people are stuck in the closed software mentality that when a new option is added to some software, you will be locked in and forced to use it. This is not the case in most Free software.

I don't know why I even bother replying to an AC...

Palm Conduits

[yaba]

Very well... One further step away from outlook.

However this means, that an Palm conduit for pilot-link to synchronize the calendar and the address book of Mozilla would be essential.

Anyway, an conduit for the Mozilla address book would be great to have now. Does anyone know if there are plans to provide such an conduit?

How about a server?

[Linux_ho]

Does anyone know of an open-source calendar SERVER that supports iCal, and actually sorta works? It looks like ReefKnot has a ways to go, though it looks promising.

Finally!

[mESSDan]

Microsoft's rule over our calendar is no more! No longer will we have MSJanuary, WinFebruary, XPMarch, etc.
And no, Bill Gates was NOT born on Christmas!

Re:Finally!

[rtaylor]

heh.. Course not. Gates was born on Gatemas the holeyest day of the year.

Anyone know why they use Windows 3000 as a prison guard? It always locks up -- heh..

generous?

[aozilla]

"Thanks to an extremely generous offer of code from OEone Corporation?" I thought it was morally wrong to not offer code to everyone for free. We wouldn't say "thanks to an extremely generous offer of not stealing" would we?

Re:generous?

[Zurk]

mozilla is not GPLed alone. its tri licensed. the company could have legally without stealing taken code from mozilla and developed it without giving anything back. that sthe terms mozilla was released under. the fact they gave it back is very generous.

So much for reading the article

[ihatelisp]

The calendar project is donated by outside contributors, and it won't be heavily worked on after 1.0. I doubt if we'll even see it in the nightly builds anytime sonn. Which part of the article says it'll postpone the 1.0 release?

Re:So much for reading the article

[Anonymous Coward]

The part that says you're a motherfucker

The week starts on monday!

[k98sven]

Yet another US-centric calendar.
I hope it's configureable.
(I want the week numbers displayed too!)

Re:The week starts on monday!

[Anonymous Coward]

The week in the US actually starts on Sunday, but business-oriented calendars, paper and otherwise, tradtionally start on Monday for ease of use. Configuration would be a good choice (I don't think Outlook can do that).

Do people read the articles anymore?

[ihatelisp]

What are all these complaints about bloat and never-will-be-released 1.0?

• Mozilla is an open project. Any outsider can contribute and develop applications that use the Mozilla platform.
• It is clearly stated that Calendar will be post-1.0 work. Mozilla.org is not going to hold the 1.0 release for the calendar.
• Key Mozilla developers will concentrate on the 1.0 release and will not spend much effort on the calendar.
• If you don't like it, don't compile it into your build. You have the source, after all.

Free software is about freedom and choice. Stop discouraging side projects just because you don't like it.

*ducks*

[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

While I realize I may get flamed to a small charcoal briquette for this, what about importing into this (or any other Open Source product, for that matter) your calendar (or messages) from Outlook?

In my office, we use both Win products and Linux/Unix. Windows basically owns most of the desktops in here, while *nix is on many of our servers. I use Linux for my workstation, and many of my coworkers are interested in trying it as well. The big stumbling block? Getting their mail into Evolution/Kmail/Nutscrape/Mozilla as well as all their calendar items.

Outlook Express can export into a format that Evolution will read, but not if it's working from a .pst file. Has anyone found a way to happilly export mail, contacts, calendar, etc. reliably? So far I've tried all the options Outlook 2000 offers into Evolution, Kmail and Mozilla without success. You can send contacts as V-Cards into Evolution, but that's a long and tiresome task if you have over 300 contacts since Outlook has a nasty habit of only letting send about 10 at a time (at least, I've run into problems sending more... is it possible to do?).

Projects like OEone or KOrganizer are great, but it's more difficult to get anyone to try them if it means losing all their old/current data.

Re:*ducks*

[free!arrow]

This might help, at least for the emails - email can be copied out of Outlook / Express by copying from your inbox / local folders to folders in an IMAP account. You could then copy them back into your preferred mail client, but I'd recommend sticking with IMAP...

Re:*ducks*

[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

Hm... Not a bad idea. Using IMAP would then let me get them all into the new client.

The only reason we don't use IMAP instead of POP is space. Our mail server is pitifully under powered and the drive is only 10gig. With 60 users, that would fill up in a hurry.

Thanks for the suggestion on IMAP, though. That should work :-)

silly

[Anonymous Coward]

this is one of those silly things that happens all the time:

Open Source Zealot: "Why don't more people use open source, if only people would stop using IE and switch to Mozilla"

Normal Person: "well i would switch if it was less bloated and more stable without all the feature creep"

Open Source Zealot "Shut up you lamer, they're giving this code away for free so you have no right to bitch, if you don't like it then don't fucking use it you whiner"

Normal Person "ok then..."

Normal Person continues to use IE.

This happens so often, it's rather hilarious.

Wow (WARNING: OFFTOPIC)

[mjh]

WARNING: THIS POST OFF TOPIC

PIM's vs. paper... very interesting, but what really caught my attention in your post was this little gem:

One of my girlfriends Joselle had to cancel a date with me because...

Wow, not only did you have a date scheduled, but you've got more than one girlfriend!

Man, being a geek ain't what it used to be. I guess Scott Adams was right

Re:Wow (WARNING: OFFTOPIC)

[LegendLength]

The other form is dreamery.

Spell checking

[stapedium]

a good calendar is probably my most-wished-for Mozilla feature.

Mozilla is looking pretty nice now, and has stable versions of all the features I used in NS 4.7 (Browsing w/ plugins, IMAP mail, LDAP enabled address book). However, my most wished for feature is a good spell checker. ThenI can throw out netscape 4.X (except of course if I want to get on msn...)

XPCOM != COM for XP

[hey]

Ooops, now Windows XP is out the name XPCOM (Mozilla's cross-platform component stuff) doesn't seem so great.

Re:XPCOM != COM for XP

[JourneymanMereel]

Just remember that XPCOM (as well as most every other XP in Mozilla) existed long before Microsoft chose the name Windows (or Office) XP.

Makes you wonder if they didn't choose the name just to dilute the "marketing hype" of their biggest comepetitor (AOLTW/Netscape)...

Client side calendar, email, becoming useless

[Ars-Fartsica]

I want my calendar available to me wherever I am - home, work, on the road - using a client-side solution is pointless in this respect. The same goes for mail. A service like Yahoo Calendar is the way to go - have your calendar wherever, on whatever browser. This seems self-evident.

Re:Client side calendar, email, becoming useless

[Anonymous Coward]

You can write a web-based calendar using libical, etc. Just like web-based mail services use POP3 and IMAP to login and get your mail.

Re:Client side calendar, email, becoming useless

[JourneymanMereel]

The one thing I really like [well, maybe liked is a better term :( ] about the Yahoo calendar was the fact that I could sync it with my Visor. Unfortunataly, this part of the service has been broke for more than a month and Yahoo doesn't seem to be in any hurry to fix it. I've been looking for something to replace it, but have been failing myserably. If the calendar in Mozilla provided the functionality to sync w/a palm and an online service [such as maybe calendar.netscape.com :) ] I'd use it in a heartbeat!

Re:Client side calendar, email, becoming useless

[flacco]

I want my calendar available to me wherever I am - home, work, on the road - using a client-side solution is pointless in this respect. The same goes for mail. A service like Yahoo Calendar is the way to go - have your calendar wherever, on whatever browser. This seems self-evident.

Server-based calendar store will, of course, be essential. But I believe the roadmap for the Mozilla calendar is to get the personal calendar fully functional, then extend it to a server back end.

I too want a calendar available to me on the Internet from anywhere, but I DON'T want to store my personal information on a third-party server. I want it to reside on a server I've set up at work, or on my hosting provider account.

If Yahoo etc. had the ability to encrypt/decrypt your server-stored information at the client - I might be interested.

THIS IS POST-1.0

[Anonymous Coward]

is it really that hard to READ the article?

post 1.0

[Anonymous Coward]

The calendar will be post 1.0 work?

So is this their way of saying they have no intention of working on it?

Calendaring server is what we need

[BigJim.fr]

We now have clients a plenty, but no way to share selected parts of our calendar with groups or individuals. A server would be really great and also be a step on the quest for a mSexChange replacement. What are the open standards for calendar sharing ?

Re:Calendaring server is what we need

[gmhowell]

Forget about open standards for calendar sharing. I want a product that is to exchange what samba is to nt file sharing.

Not because I actually want that, but because we use a couple of proprietary programs (OSS versions are in development, but are still a year or two off, and we need software now) that link into MS Exchange.

I'm sure we're not the only ones.

Re:Calendaring server is what we need

[Linux_ho]

RFC 2445, 2446, 2447

These documents describe the iCalendar protocol, supported by Outlook and Palm Desktop, if I remember correctly.

Open source servers:
ReefKnot - still pre-alpha, developing a Perl iCal library and server implementation, looks like it has promise for the future.

WorldPilot - a Zope product, looks like it mostly works well, I'm looking forward to playing around with it. Anyone know of any others?

Re:Calendaring server is what we need

[jimand]

I agree, no corporation currently using Exchange will switch to an open source solution unless the new solution will inter-operate with the existing one

Re:Calendaring server is what we need

[IGnatius T Foobar]

Let's not forget Citadel, which when finished will be not only a calendaring server, but e-mail as well -- a full-blown Exchange killer.

Y'know what the really key piece is, that no one seems to be able to do? The ability to look at one of your peers' free/busy times, and find free slots to schedule events. Exchange does this by publishing, at the user's option, a version of the user's calendar that has the actual appointment data removed - you only see the blocks that are marked "busy" (and the blocks that are marked "tentative".

Regrettably, the RFC's for calendaring don't contain any standard protocol for doing this. There is an RFC for the data format, and the RFC for sending invites, RSVP's, etc... but we need one more RFC for a calendar access protocol.

I, for one, am happy to see that Mozilla will be gaining a calendar client. It will allow those of us working on the Citadel project to work with the Mozilla calendar client on all platforms, without having to reverse-engineer Microsoft's protocol.

Re:Calendaring server is what we need

[IntlHarvester]

Well, I don't want to discourage anyone working on such a project, but Exchange RPC sounds like a ratsnest that's probably not even documented within Microsoft. Work has recently started on building a open source DCE/RPC piece (originally a Unix protocol -- dcerpc.net), and that would need to be completed before Exchange reverse-engineering could start.

Visions appearing of redfaced Exchange administrators yelling "Your Lin-ux crap crashed my server!!" (What? You assumed the Exchange RPC server is robust?)

To my knowledge, all data in Exchange can be accessed through IMAP, LDAP, and HTTP (with some possible slight MS twists), and that would seem like the more fruitful approach (although it might not solve your particular problems).

Re:Calendaring server is what we need

[johnjones]

a quick search came up with

iCal 3.5
A very dynamic calendar utility that allows you to post dates on your Intra/Internet. November 3rd, 2000 Shareware 1.5MB win32

http://www.brownbearsw.com/ical/icalpage.html

ICal 2.2
ICal is a popular X-based calendar and scheduler application. September 28th, 1998 256.6K

http://wwwinfo.cern.ch/pdp/ose/asis/products/TCL/i cal-2.2/ical.html/

JetSync 1.0
Synchronizes your email, calendar (ical), memos and addresses and enables conduits for other types of data. February 22nd, 2000 GPL 213.3K
(I could not find the webpage but palm links to it)

http://mega.ist.utl.pt/~frias/jetsync/

Syncal 0.5
Syncal reads a current ical calendar file, an archived ical calendar file, and a Palm(TM) device DateBook database. April 12th, 1999 GPL 26.1K

http://hopf.math.nwu.edu/syncal/

lib ICAL 0.23
Lib ICAL is an open source implementation of the IETF's iCAL Calendaring and Scheduling protocols. March 28th, 2001 MPL 567.9K

http://hopf.math.nwu.edu/syncal/

yes I think that there is a lack of servers you can build yourself

companys often want to run servers on their intranet and dont want to far it out to a outside source (palm sells alot of their enterprise servers which do syncing)

personally the only app that runs this well and gets messaging right has been Lotus Notes Domino

frankly it rocks and I am surprised that Ximian have not picked up on this they have a client but no server and the server is where the money is !!

regards

john jones

Re:Calendaring server is what we need

[ShannonClark]

There is in fact an Internet Draft called Calendar Access Protocal (CAP). When completed CAP is designed to be a standardized means of accessing a calendar server.

More information can be found at the website for the Calendaring and Scheduling Working Group (www.calsch.org) which is responsible for CAP as well as RFC 2445 (iCal), 2446 (iTIP), and 2447 (iMIP).

I am very active in the working group and am helping edit the iCalendar RFC.

Re:Calendaring server is what we need

[Anonymous Coward]

Lotus and Outlook use that protocol. I don't know for palm.

Thanks OEone think it's a really anticipated feature to have a free implantation of iCal .

Re:Calendaring server is what we need

[gmhowell]

You are right. That would work, but (in my particular instance) I would need some sort of translation layer to get it out to the clients.

OFFTOPIC

[Anonymous Coward]

this bears no relation to mozilla.

Bacillus MicrosoftWordis

[myst564]

So, Mozilla has gone from a browser, to a browsing platform to an complete productivity suite? Wow.. it's just like Microsoft Word, you have 2^10 little buttons/menus/options to choose from yet all you want to do is write a stupid paper.

Wouldn't it be nice if the Mozilla people learned from Microsoft that having many features does not make something more useful.

All I want to do is browse web pages using a stable, fast, and standards compliant web browser. Is that so much to ask? I don't care if I can instant message, chat on IRC, and maintain my schedule of appointments.

Is it so hard to finish a project without including 10 things that aren't central to that project's success or function?

Re:Bacillus MicrosoftWordis

[BZ]

It started out as an application framework and has stayed there throughout... as it happens, there is a browser application on top of the framework.

Re:Bacillus MicrosoftWordis

[myst564]

Actually, from the mozilla.org page:

"We coordinate the open source Mozilla browser project. Mozilla is an open-source web browser, designed for standards-compliance, performance and portability. "

So, Mozilla is a standards-compliant web browser that just happens to be open source.

So, what you are saying is that a web browser is an application framework? The parts that make up the browser certainly are a framework, that is they are independent of one another and can be used to build other applications from, but I don't think a web browser is an application framework.

mozilla.org goes on to further define Mozilla as a set of open source internet client software projects. Which means that mozilla.org is an organization that keeps track of such things and furthers, but not necessary directly develops these projects.

Now, a web browser certainly is a internet client, but does it really need a calender module to browse the web? I don't think so, in fact I believe that they should freeze the modules and just get the browser done.

A principle of software development is putting off decisions until you absolutely need to make them. I think figuring out what modules you can build in or around a browser should definitely be put off until you have a complete browser released.

OpenMail / Outlook calendaring?

[dirtydog]

Anyone know if this will support meeting requests and integrate into an OpenMail/Outlook corporate environment? I would switch to this in a heartbeat if I could use it to accept and reject or make new meeting announcements. I'm using Bynari Insight for this now, but it has quite a few shortcomings.

TROLL

[Xiphoid Process]

if you READ THE ARTICLE you would see 1) this is a post-1.0 project 2) DEVELOPED BY AN OUTSIDE CORPERATION.

NO.

[Anonymous Coward]

do you lack basic reading skills?

Re:NO.

[F50]

??? I see. Very efficient code I must say. What university are you studying at?

I think it reads more like this...

[Xiphoid Process]

while (1) {
if (self.canCode()) {
self.scratchItch();
}
else {
self.bitchAboutOthersHardWork();
}
}

Show me the binaries...

[Anonymous Coward]

oh right, you can't because its vapourware.

Re:Show me the binaries...

[Asic Eng]

Huh? Just install it. Unless you're referring to that Qt thing? Just because Qt is ported doesn't mean KDE will run - it needs more to run than the widgets.

Re:Show me the binaries...

[Anonymous Coward]

it was a response to the suggestion the KDE will run on windows.

Re:Show me the binaries...

[LetterJ]

Here you go. http://kde-cygwin.sourceforge.net/ KDE/XFree86 running on Win32.

Re:Show me the binaries...

[Asic Eng]

Well ok - but that's basically a Unix emulator it's running on, it doesn't really make use of the cross-platform features which Qt has, right?

GCTP/Openflock work?

[discipledaniel]

Does anyone know what progress has been made recently on the GCTP protocol and the Openflock server?

This seems like it would take care of everyone's desire to replace their Exchange servers. I know I would love to be able to offer my customers this functionality(I'm a self-employed consultant).

Daniel

Re:I'm confused

[jeffy124]

sorry, i cant quite get the accent mark above the a in 'viola'

It is based on ICal...

[pwagland]

So it can interact with all of the others.

This is actually good news, this is not another incompatible calendar solution, but rather another calendar solution based on the ical formats. This means that palm synchronisation will work off the bat. It means that you are not tied into using only (Mo|Pen)zilla. The ical format appears to me to be reasonably well thought out, and has all of the functionality that I am used to.

The Calendar is MOOT

[Anonymous Coward]

Recently MSN turned away all Mozilla browsers because they would not render their content correctly. Other businesses will shortly follow. Mozilla's usefulness will soon disappear.

This is an open call to the Mozilla developers. Despite the dot bomb and the current recession, IT resources are in short supply. Drop your doomed projects, and donote your time to more worthwhile endevors. Develop applications that will assist the poor and infirmed. Take your extra time and improve your community. Your community still needs you! Take a kid fishing, clean your local park, help your local food bank.

Mozmacs?

[Anonymous Coward]

So now we just need a notion of "major mode" to be added to the Composer, and we'll have ourselves a nice Emacs clone. Though, I would like it a lot better if it had LISP (well... really, I would prefer ML, but better LISP than nothing (err... JavaScript... same thing)) as the scripting language.

BLATANT ADD but informative (Re:calendaring server

[MouseR]

When will someone release a calendar/scheduling server (like MS Exchange) for linux. This is a MAJOR thing holding it back from the corporate desktop. Yes, Lotus Notes and MS Exchange both have web interfaces, but if you've used them you would know that they suck.


Please do excuse me for this blatant add, totally biases on top of it. But, it's nonetheless informative.

The company I (gladly) work for offers a cross-platform, groupware calendaring solution. We used to be the OEM provider for Netscape. When we opted not to prolong the contract, it kind of forced Netscape to work on it's own project, which ultimately was abandoned.

Some time later (now), netscape is announcing this new open code base to start a new project. That's fine. We wish 'em luck.

Meanwhile, if you're looking for a Linux-based solution, albeit a commercial one, check out Steltor. We provide servers for unices (including Linux) and Windows, and clients for Win, Unix (motif), Mac, web, WAP and sync stuff for handhelds.

Sorry again for the add. but, it does show that commercial companies out there actually cares about Linux (and Mac).

Humbly yours --a Mac dev over there.

great attitude

[s4ltyd0g]

So someone that writes code and doesn't decide to share it with you is stealing?

Companies and individuals contributing to the open source community should be reckognized and encouraged they sure don't owe it to you.

Re:great attitude

[aozilla]

I wasn't stating my own point of view, I was stating the point of view of the FSF. "I consider that the golden rule requires that if I like a program I must share it with other people who like it." (http://www.gnu.org/gnu/manifesto.html) According to the FSF, which is what the GPL is all about, it is immoral to not contribute to the open source community. According to the FSF, they do owe it to you.

Holy Mixed Message Batman!

[DG]

I'm all for improvements in the calandar system, and there are some pretty compelling arguments for a (13X28) + (1 "festival") day calendar.

But ye gods, that site you linked sure has its messages mixed.

I fail to see how changing the calendar would have any effect on the state of human nature - so the claim that changing the calendar would bring about world peace is just a little bit farfetched.

A little.

The EMACS of Web Browsers

[Anonymous Coward]

It's amusing, really. Richard Stallman began with a text editor, and people began to extend it until it had everything but the kitchen sink.

Mozilla started as web browser, and people keep extending it until it too will eventually include everything but the kitchen sink.

I wonder -- will Mozilla eventually allow you to do crappy text editing the way Emacs does crappy web browsing?

Oh, and when will Mozilla get its own LISP interpreter? Call it Mozilisp, and make a basilisk its mascot.

--
Lady Xiombarg of Chaos

Could someone please explain.

[MrDalliard]

How the addition of a new feature, like a calendar fits in with their recent discussion about not adding any new features and trying to get a stable product out for version 1.00 ?

The two seem mutually exclusive, if you ask me.

M.

Re:Could someone please explain.

[unapersson]

Did you not notice the bit about it being developed by an outside organisation? It is merely being included into the Mozilla CVS tree so others can work on it. It's not taking people away from working on the browser, so I'm not sure why people have such a problem with it.

You first, tiger.

[Anonymous Coward]

"Drop your doomed projects, and donote your time to more worthwhile endevors. Develop applications that will assist the poor and infirmed. Take your extra time and improve your community. Your community still needs you! Take a kid fishing, clean your local park, help your local food bank."

Worthwhile to whom? If you want to waste your time developing for defective people, you are welcome to do so. But it is presumptuous of you to tell others that the things they choose to do are a "waste of time".

--
Lady Xiombarg of Chaos

Re:You first, tiger.

[Anonymous Coward]

You mean there are people out there who consider that making open source look shitty by producing the buggiest most bloated peice of shit browser on earth is good use of their time?

Re:I'm confused

[Geeky Frignit]

I think our anonymous coward friend was referring to the fact that the word you should be using is 'voila.' "There it is" in French. A Viola is a stringed instrument related to the violin and cello.

Wanted: Ability to import events from 3rd party

[fawlty]

I've wanted this for years.. Imagine going to a concert page and downloading a list of the concerts appearing in your area, and having it import neatly into your calendar. Or a list of opening nights for movies. Or book readings at local bookstores.

The import should suggest a category name for these events, but let you override it. In the PIM, you should be able to export any category to give to someone else (like, public-family events, business events) and to delete/manage entire categories at a time. (esp. to deal with spammed event lists)

If this feature is out there anywhere, I haven't seen it.

Open Source Calendar -- Finally!

[skoda]

After years of licensing expensive, bug-ridden, proprietary calendars, I can finally move to an open-source calendar.

Just in time, as I was sick of MicrosoftMonday(tm) also starting late. Further, their new licensing requires me to upgrade to MS2002 by Jan 1, 2002 at the latest.

Now, I can upgrade when I feel like it (I won't need 2002 until sometime late 2005). And since I'll have the source, I can add an extra hour to all my days, an extra day to all my months, and find a work-around to my birthday (so it only happens once every 3 years).

Open Source Rules!
:)

Open Source Calendar?

[Kasreyn]

Will that, like, have nude pinups of RMS and ESR?

Yum! I want one for my wall!

-Kasreyn

P.S. YES, THAT WAS A JOKE, YOU SICK FREAKS.

Fool!

[Anonymous Coward]

Didn't you know? Mozilla is not a browser, it's a complete network application platform that just happens to greet you with a browser window when you launch it.

I don't care if all you (and most everybody) wanted was just a browser. I don't care if it's too slow and memory hungry to run on your older computer. I don't care the scope of the project dashed any hope for Netscape to salvage some dignity as a company. I don't care if all the project delays & bugs have convinced a lot of fence sitters that the open source model is not the way to go. And last but not least, I don't care if the basic rendering engine is probably going to be obsolete by the time the project reaches completion.

Can't you just see that Mozilla is the best project ever and nobody should ever say anything bad about it?

Mac OS X

[alexhmit01]

I've been evaluating Mac OS X for a few months. Our applications are primarily web based, though we do Java and are adding Qt to the technology base.

We had each programmer with a Linux box and Win2K box. Now it is hit or miss. If you need/want a dedicated server, its yours. Otherwise, you use a development server.

Mac OS X offers some interesting possibilities. One system, with a full BSD subsystem (adequate for us), as well as an Outlook Client and MS Office (coming to native OS X, "Real Soon Now"). When those are released, we're really going to consider Powerbooks instead of the Compaq Armada's with docking stations.

Giving everyone a full Unix desktop (complete with CVS client) as well as Office Productivity apps would be great.

VirtualPC would probably even be sufficient for the few Windows only apps that we need. (Test the site on IE/Windows, Quickbooks for my accounting, etc.).

I realize that if you are doing real Unix coding, you need the Sparcs. But for those of us that just need a Unix-like environment, it is a sufficient development solution.

Alex

Do you really have to ask?

[Anonymous Coward]

"Anymore?"

Were things ever different at slashdot? For as long as I can remember the comment sections have been full of knee-jerk reactions suggestive of no familiarity with the featured article. Such is the way of things.

However, to be fair, whether or not it applies to this specific issue there is a common perception that the Mozilla project has dragged on forever because of preoccupation with non-core features.

I think that's a fair criticism myself, but whether or not you agree, anyone announcing another Mozilla feature and expecting enthusiastic cheering isn't being realistic.

-AC

Re:Do you really have to ask?

[The Evil Beaver]

I haven't really seen any actual development outside Navigator and MailNews, not even on Editor/Composer and the Address Book. Don't forget that the old calendar (Zulu) died and got removed from the tree, somewhere within the last month or so.

Really, we're just seeing something that people actually did care about return from the dead.

sort of OT

[Anonymous Coward]

Does anyone know when Moz themes will stabilize, or rather, will they be broken again before 1.0? I'd like to work on one, but that whole area seems to be a mess.

Mozilla Calendaring

[zangdesign]

How about Mozilla finish their browser first? Get rid of all the bugs and then start a new package?

I smell code bloat.

Re:Mozilla Calendaring

[Anonymous Coward]

Can you do us a favor and brush up on your reading skills? Thanks.

Re:Mozilla Calendaring

[zangdesign]

Aarroooo? All I did was ask that they clean up their own house before putting in some additions. Take a look at the buglist, mate. There's still some left.

No, but thanks for playing

[roystgnr]

13 moon positions and 20 sun positions over 13 moon cycles that are each 28 days in length.

Would that be the 27.3 day sidereal Lunar month or the 29.5 day synodic Lunar month that you've got the length wrong for?

The ratio of the lunar month (either way you measure) to the year is an irrational number that changes as the moon's orbit recedes. Any calendar that makes a real attempt to follow both cycles won't be good for much except driving people nuts.

Re:No, but thanks for playing

[Fnkmaster]

Would somebody mod this post up? I can't understand for the life of me how somebody posting such an obvious troll as the original post could possibly have gotten modded up. Moderators might do with actually following the links in the future to discover when somebody is either trolling or just downright insane.

That being said, there are potentially legitimate calendars that we ought not to fully ignore that are not the Gregorian. But there are more legitimate ways of pointing that out.

Re:BLATANT ADD but informative (Re:calendaring ser

[Anonymous Coward]

Meanwhile, if you're looking for a Linux-based solution, albeit a commercial one, check out Steltor [steltor.com]. We provide servers for unices (including Linux) and Windows, and clients for Win, Unix (motif), Mac, web, WAP and sync stuff for handhelds.

Sorry again for the add. but, it does show that commercial companies out there actually cares about Linux (and Mac).

Cares about Linux? Hah! Not as far as I can see. When are you (your company, actually) going to get the Linux/Unix (Motif) client up to snuff with Windows and Mac clients, eh? We've got the software here, but the v. 4.0.4 vs. Win/Mac 5.1 is real annoying: core dumps, inconsistent alarms (means I can't rely on them _at all_), missing features, etc. And the website is all about the cool new Outlook Connector, not a word about plans for an update of the Linux client.

While I'm ranting, Steltor, nee CorporateTime, used to be a big proponent of the vCal/iCal standard. Now, I see hardly a mention of it. I can export to a vCal dialect, which gnomecal reads fine, but CorporateTime refuses to read what gnomecal writes correctly, at all. Is that standards compliance? Not in my book. I've got to be able to roundtrip.

Maybe it's all Steltor's marketing fault: is there support for Linux development internally? The website sure doesn't make it seem that way.

Hey, sorry to dump on your product, but you do a blantant AD (note one D, as in ADvertisement), touting your support for Linux, expect feedback from your Linux users, even if we're anonymous :-)

Re:BLATANT ADD but informative (Re:calendaring ser

[MouseR]

Your criticism is well founded.

But, make yourself heard. For starters, i'm not aware of vCal (or iCal and vCal) bugs. These are routed to the Core dev team here. (I'm on the Mac dev team)

The Motif 5.0 client is currently nearing ship date. The newly rebuilt team has been very hard at work, catching back with the Mac and Windows features. Previous CEO, here, had killed the Motif client a couple of years ago. He got replaced with a saner one that put the motif client back on track. Surely enough, because of the 1 year (or so) set back, they have been playing catch up for many months.

It's interesting to note that the Mac client 5.2 is pretty much the same as versionn 5.1, except it runs nativelly in Mac OS X (aka, carbonized). So, by now, the motif client really isn't that far behind.

(I'm not sure I should be saying all that, but I don't this this as armful).

The new Linux client (still Motif) is a hell of a lot better than it used to. Really. It brings it on par with version 5.0 of the mac client, plus some stuff from the 5.2.1 client. This includes the new connection manager stuff etc.

The web site doesn't comment on unreleased products, unless they publicly go beta. That's why there's no mention of the upcoming Linux client.

As for the vCal/iCal stuff, there's been much improvements in those core libs since the 4.x Motif client.

I beleive the Motif client will ship around december. And (get this!) there will be a public beta next tuesday! (I just learnt that myself).

By the way, please DO voice your concerns through the appropriate channels (see the web site).

I wont be much use in this regard, being on the mac dev team, as opposed to marketing or lord know what.

Inport

[fogof]

I just hope they plug in an "inport" feature that works by importing MsOutlook calanders... and then .... I will be set... no more Ms Office (starOffice) .... no more IE (don't care bout msn.com) .... no more Outlook .... Ahhh NO MORE CHAINS....... FREE like a bird... or should I say free like a lizard or other repiliane like animal ...

Decision for Palm OS

[jasamaman]

The screenshots of this calender look awesome, but it is utterly useless to me if I can't sync my Visor with it in some way. Surely the PocketPC "Microsoft Dominated" PDA devices won't make a feature to sync with Mozilla, but will the PalmOS companies (Palm and Hangspring)?

Syncing with a Palm

[Landaras]

Do any OS PIMs sync with a Palm? I am very tempted to drop all things Microsoft with my next computer (that I'm building with parts to avoid the MS tax), but I live and die by the calendar on my Palm IIIxe / MS Outlook.

Re:Syncing with a Palm

[fursten]

Sure.
Examples include:

KOrganizer for KDE
Evolution for Gnome

Screenshots mirror

[TomatoMan]

Gotta use my iDisk for something! Should be nice and zippy.

calendar.jpg
calendar_add_event.jpg
calendar_day_view.jpg
calendar_week_view.jpg
wordp.jpg

um... no.

[Anonymous Coward]

It IS an add-on based on the XUL platform may in the future be integrated into the tree.

A cool mozilla project would be

[Anonymous Coward]

a bloody WEB BROWSER.

correct, it is a hack

[Anonymous Coward]

kde is cool and all, but is linux only at this point

well put

[Xiphoid Process]

I couldn't have said it better myself. :)

Re: *NOT* Calendaring server is what we need

[shaw7]

Why do we need a calendaring SERVER? Why doesn't someone make a P2P Calendaring App for collaboration?

ReefKnot

[Anonymous Coward]

I thought reefknot http://sourceforge.net/projects/reefknot looked interesting. It is a work-in-progress, and all the activity is in the mails lists (Lists in sourceforge speak).

sweet!

[Anonymous Coward]

this is awesome. I wonder if Mozilla 1.0's release will be on the calendar.

The planet *doesn't* have a 13 lunar month year

[maggard]

Basic science:

There aren't 13 lunar "months" in a solar year. Indeed there is no resonance between the two at all.

However from the linked site you seem only tenously acquainted with reality, apparently not enough to ever actually look at a lunar calendar.

Score: -3 (troll with pseudo-science & bad math!)

All I want for Christmas is Mozilla 1.0...

[Anonymous Coward]

No problem.

Will that be 2002 or 2003?

This is a troll - mod down

[Anonymous Coward]

God, what idiot modded this troll up?

Come on moderators - grow brains! Why would a "tech-hater" be on Slashdot in the first place?

A very well written troll, mind you.

There is no relation between having your calendar on a computer and it being viewable by everyone.

Another giveaway is mentioning the gfs name.

And this line is priceless "Computers allow for the domination of one's calendar by the digital elite"

well put

[renard]

Any calendar that makes a real attempt to follow both cycles won't be good for much except driving people nuts.

Ah, yes! Case in point: the original poster.

-Renard

domino?

[cabbey]

I wonder if Lotus Domino (the server backend to Lotus Notes) could be tricked into supporting these RFCs? or at least if we could create a bridge layer for those of us at companies that use Domino....

In case Gerv hasn't already said it...

[The Evil Beaver]

Or anyone else for that matter... We don't even have the calendar code for checking in yet. Until OEone gets a good beta made, we've nothing except some uninteresting little side projects (a to-do list and a jotpad).

And then, when we do have the code, and have it checked in, it's pretty much hands off until Moz1.0 anyways. Things like this will keep popping up, probably, but it'll all be sidetracked until we finish the golden milestone.

Anyways, if a calendar/pim isn't enough, there's always supporting the (non-)project mozOffice at http://mozoffice.mozdev.org/ for those of you who are interested.

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Calendar -- How...appropriate...

[rjamestaylor]

I love my Moz, but know unfortunate juxtapositions when I see them...

Actually Joselle just made that up.

[glrotate]

I had her for lunch.

I built my own. TCL/TK

[Anonymous Coward]

I couldn't find an alarm calendar program that suited me. So as part of learning Tcl/Tk. I made a project of an alarm Calendar program. I put it up on a website but as far as I know I'm the only one who uses it. If anybody's interested it's at
http://coyote.accessnv.com/srobert/qooltime.html
It works for me. You can tweak it for you, but it doesn't have group features like email. And I haven't yet written in a print command.

MOD PARENT UP -- Re: Calendar Server IETF Standard

[manic micko]

I don't know why people haven't used their mod points on anything other than "funny" or offtopic comments lately :\ Thanks mods! -- micko

Now, how about a *decent* address book for it...

[aquarian]

It's neat that Mozilla is doing this calendar. Unfortunately, using it to build a decent PIM will be impossible unless there's a decent address book and/or database to go with it. The only one that's really convenient to use is, I'm sorry to say, the address book for Outlook Express (Windows Address Book). Netscape/Mozilla's sucks, and so do similar efforts from KDE/Gnome.

What's worse, every PIM project for Linux seems to be a sorry copy of Outlook, which is a sorry PIM to begin with. It assumes we all work for big corporations, and our lives revolve around meetings- and email. Some of us have our own thing going, and we correspond with the rest of the world via regular letters, bills, brochures, etc. We make sales calls and service calls at other addresses, and need to print out our itineraries- addresses and all. None of these silly Outlook clones allow for this.

I'll give up Windows for good when they're able to pry Act 2000 from my cold, dead fingers. Maximizer and Goldmine are good, too. I can still find a phone number or email address faster with Windows Address Book than anything.

a graphical emacs?

[Anonymous Coward]

Neat! This is growing bigger than emacs!

No, really. All I want is a browser, not some chugging train ripping through my ram. What happened to the idea of writing one program to do one thing? I'm not complaining, I just would rather have a steady browser than a huge application like star office or emacs (hey, I like emacs, but you have to admit -- it's huge).

Shades of grey

[Wonko42]

Slashdot: Mozilla.org announced that they'll be putting a calendar app in Mozilla!

Readers: Yay! Go open-source! We like calendars in web browsers!

.....

Slashdot: Microsoft has announced they'll be putting a calendar app in Internet Explorer!

Readers: Boo! Fuck Microsoft, fuck them up their stupid asses! Browsers shouldn't have calendars! Browsers should browse! If everything was open-source, this wouldn't have happened!

Re: *NOT* Calendaring server is what we need

[fursten]

> Why do we need a calendaring SERVER? Why doesn't someone make a P2P Calendaring App for collaboration?

Well all people aren't online all the time, so having their calendar data on a server that *is* online all the time is definitely a bonus.
Also, most people have the most need to share calendars with people on their work. This is done more efficiently in client-server model than P2P.

I can also add that the iCal suite of standards as far as I can see would work well in a P2P-framework as well. The iMIP-standard is basicly a P2P calendar standard using mail for transport. And there even are a bunch of implementations of it: Outlook, the ones based on libical: KOrganizer, Evolution, this new Mozilla thingy, and more