Nice stuff. Please note that I actually passed no judgement in my post, i let the pix speak for themselves, both desktops are looking pretty nice these days.
Ximian Gnome = Gnome, you are right about that. What Ximian offers is a super slick installer (Red Carpet) and you can buy support. About certain things like Galeon having issues, this is true, but has nothing to do with Ximian. Basically, many of the up and coming applications like Evolution and Galeon are using developing libraries (like Mozilla, GAL, GConf) and so there is to be expected some incompatabilities. Each piece may have "stable" releases along the way, but as a system, unless you are running raw GNOME 1.4.1, you are running a developing system. Though, if you stick with what's in RedCarpet's channels, you should have few or no issues and you will get a chance to use all this cool software before it is all realeased together.
Those are SVG icons, you can resize individual icons to any size you want, and there will be NO pizelation:) Also, check out this one for the full alpha support:
1. Bonobo has been out for a while now and used as the core of Evolution, Gide, Dev Help, Nautilus and many others... ever wonder why Open Office is intergrating with Bonobo?
2. nope, no such recomendation at that link. May I remind you that Galeon just won an award for the
best linux browser?
3. Absolute unsubstantiated bullshit.
4. I'll just let the pictures speak for themselves:
Not to mention this empty flamebait of an "article" here at Slashdot, anything to get the flames/add dollars rolling in, I guess. I don't understand why people in the slashdot "community" want to keep driving a wedge where one does not belong.
But don't be fooled, it's not the developers of K/G that are perpetuating this "rift", its bored 13 year old slashdot trolls. Right now Gnome and KDE are both achiving great things, they are both making linux a contender for the desktop, and most of all, both sets of developers are working together at an increasing rate (there is a scheduled interoperablity hack-a-thon at the Linux Showcase in early november.) KDE and GNOME are both here to stay, choice is good, deal with it.
"The GNOME file dialog is a royal pain to use. It's ugly (layout and widgets) and has no useablity features. I find myself frustrated whenever I use it. "
Which is why it has been rewritten for Gnome 2.0:)
You make some valid points, the burden of proof is on me.
The fact is that Mozilla is the most widely accepted standards leader, many people have tested available browswer and come to this conclusion (i just posted the first two my quick search came up with before i left work yesterday). I'm sure IE6 is an improvement on ie 5.x. I understand that it is based off of the rendering engine which was used in ie 5.x on the mac, which came a close second to Mozilla in terms of standards compliance. I'm not sure actually how much, if at all, ie6 is an improvment over that... but the reality is that Mozilla is the most standards compliant browers that we know of at this time.
In time, we may here that ie6 is ahead of ns6... but please bear in mind that Mozilla has come MILES since netscape 6, which is what got most reviewing. I honestly think that they are pretty even right now, but seeing as it has been microsoft's long history to embrace and extend in a proprietary fashion, the burden of proof is really on MS to unseat Mozilla.
As for Konquoror, its rendering engine is terrific, but I usually don't rate it as highly because of stability issues that I have had with it... I'm not sure if that has been because of shoddy sys-admining on my part or what, but Mozilla definitely feels more solid to me. I would love to see a thourough, unbiased shootout between Konqueror, Moz, ie6 and Opera... let me know if you see any.
Re:Mozilla Project Success; Mozilla Browser Failur
on
Mozilla Relicensing
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· Score: 1, Offtopic
Damn, I hadn't realised that the Mozilla browser had failed as I use it daily on 5 different computers without having had it crash for well over a month. I guess the fact that it is the most standards compliant browser ever made and that it is a joy to use are sure signs of its failure. It must all be an illusion.;-P
Just wanted to correct a couple minor factual errors. Gtk+ is very portable, with standard ports running on Windows, BeOS and I think MacOS (9 + X?). I would also strongly suggest everyone to look into GOB, which allows you to define gtk+ objects with a very java like syntax, its pretty slick.
Re:Netscape 6.1 vs Internet Explorer 5.5
on
Netscape 6.1
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· Score: 1
as for startup times, try using the quick launch in the advanced options tab... it preloads parts of mozilla, just like ie does, and now comes up faster than IE on my system.
ie 5.5 and NS6.1 render it identical...
on
Netscape 6.1
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· Score: 1
if you really care i could upload some screen shots... they are nearly pixel identical.
There is no one true tool. Different people think and organise logical structure in different ways, this is why there are always 20 answeres to a problem in the programming world. The number of lines it takes to express a concept is a really bad measure of the ease of expression, for every line of code you write, you should be spending an order of magnitude more time planning, thinking, designing. Therefore the most important feature of a development environment is how it's logical structures sync up with your own methods of organizing and thinking. Many people find C to be much more efficient and logical that C++. Many find Python, or SmallTalk to be the be-all-end-all... personally, I find that Java and Gtk+ have moved me the most. The most important factor is how the environment connects with the individual programmer.
That's not a discussion of opinions, that's a discussion of me proving someone just like you that he's hopelessly wrong, although he obviously won't admit it.
Is that someone you? Oh... for a second you threw me there, I almost agreed with you.:)
Not in programming. Merely counting the number of code lines needed to achieve a given task or the number of pages of docs you have to go through to get there can at least give you a good hint of what is simple and what is not.
Fewer lines of code != more logical, powerful, easy to use structure. Sorry.
What I do claim is that Qt is much better, beyond any considerations of taste or personal preference, but just by looking at how quickly you'll get the job done using it, and how maintainable your code will be.
That's a very nice personal opinion. Unfortunately, you try to take it step further and explicitely say that noone else can have a differeing view... that's pretty silly.
I'm not a Qt fan, I don't use it because I like it but because it's the best available tool for my needs
That's great, I'm honestly happy for you. Now you are starting to talk some logic. For your needs QT is the best thing out there. For some people, C based OO systems like those used in Max/MSP, PD and Gtk+ are the best answer. But you can't just leave it at that.
Sorry, counting lines of code is no proof for "ease" and power of a programming environment... if that were true visual basic would rain king. Your assertion is flawed from the start, no matter how much you type up trying to rationalise it. Your argument on d.k.o is flawed, so referencing it here as a proof is useless. Ease of use is a subjective thing.
(for the record, before you accuse me of having sentimental attachments to one product or another, implying that i am incapable of deciding rationally because of it, perhaps you should inquire as to what my favorite development environment/language is... I'll give you a hint... it isn't gtk, and it starts with a J. So thanks for the thought, but lets just keep it to the facts, ok?)
Anyhow, thanks, its been grand, but it's clear that you have your opinion and it isn't gonna change. In the mean time, I've said my peace. I'll just go on happily being language/platform agnostic.
Um... thanks for that link to a a discussion of opinions... maybe you need to take a basic english coure to understand the complexity of that word. By definition, the simplicity of a method is based on subjective opinion, and unfortunately for your silly argument, thousands of coders disagree with you and think that gtk+ is a joy to work with. Deal with it.
First off, the orignial comment was about development libraries, not IDE's. Seeing as you can just as easily develop a Gnome or CLI app in KDevelop, it really has no bearing here. Further, I have worked in companies where most of the developers used only emacs... the point is that at this point, the biggest difference between these two projects are personal taste issues. They match each other in most features. KDevelop is slick and cool, but so are Anjuta and gIDE... blanket statements like "KDE is easier" are textbook f.u.d.
Can you provide some proof of your assertions? I see no reference to this on the gtkhtml2 site. If they are removing the copyright notices (i highly doubt it) that would be really bad. But if they are merely porting a GPL'd codebase for their own uses, power to them, thats what the GPL is for.
Re:Nautilus - Re:I'm a disappointed GNOME user...
on
KDE 2.2 Tagged
·
· Score: 1
What version of Nautilus? What distribution? Did you file a bug report? Honestly, nautilus 1.0 - 1.0.2 were unusable on my system, around 1.0.3 and 1.0.4 it reached much higher levels of stability.
Slashdot Mirror
if you READ THE ARTICLE you would see 1) this is a post-1.0 project 2) DEVELOPED BY AN OUTSIDE CORPERATION.
Nice stuff. Please note that I actually passed no judgement in my post, i let the pix speak for themselves, both desktops are looking pretty nice these days.
Ximian Gnome = Gnome, you are right about that. What Ximian offers is a super slick installer (Red Carpet) and you can buy support. About certain things like Galeon having issues, this is true, but has nothing to do with Ximian. Basically, many of the up and coming applications like Evolution and Galeon are using developing libraries (like Mozilla, GAL, GConf) and so there is to be expected some incompatabilities. Each piece may have "stable" releases along the way, but as a system, unless you are running raw GNOME 1.4.1, you are running a developing system. Though, if you stick with what's in RedCarpet's channels, you should have few or no issues and you will get a chance to use all this cool software before it is all realeased together.
By calling that guy a Karma Whore you are just building yourself to get modded up, you Meta-Karma Whore!
Those are SVG icons, you can resize individual icons to any size you want, and there will be NO pizelation :) Also, check out this one for the full alpha support:
I love it when people reply to their own posts as A.C. in order to "boost" their opionion like the guy above did :)
1. Bonobo has been out for a while now and used as the core of Evolution, Gide, Dev Help, Nautilus and many others... ever wonder why Open Office is intergrating with Bonobo?
2. nope, no such recomendation at that link. May I remind you that Galeon just won an award for the best linux browser?
3. Absolute unsubstantiated bullshit.
4. I'll just let the pictures speak for themselves:
KDE
GNOME
5. Hurd was started in 1990, before linux, further more, the GNOME people are not employed by Gnu and are associated only substantially by name.
G/K are here to stay, deal with it.
Not to mention this empty flamebait of an "article" here at Slashdot, anything to get the flames/add dollars rolling in, I guess. I don't understand why people in the slashdot "community" want to keep driving a wedge where one does not belong.
But don't be fooled, it's not the developers of K/G that are perpetuating this "rift", its bored 13 year old slashdot trolls. Right now Gnome and KDE are both achiving great things, they are both making linux a contender for the desktop, and most of all, both sets of developers are working together at an increasing rate (there is a scheduled interoperablity hack-a-thon at the Linux Showcase in early november.) KDE and GNOME are both here to stay, choice is good, deal with it.
"The GNOME file dialog is a royal pain to use. It's ugly (layout and widgets) and has no useablity features. I find myself frustrated whenever I use it. "
:)
Which is why it has been rewritten for Gnome 2.0
Thats why we have redhat.
You make some valid points, the burden of proof is on me.
The fact is that Mozilla is the most widely accepted standards leader, many people have tested available browswer and come to this conclusion (i just posted the first two my quick search came up with before i left work yesterday). I'm sure IE6 is an improvement on ie 5.x. I understand that it is based off of the rendering engine which was used in ie 5.x on the mac, which came a close second to Mozilla in terms of standards compliance. I'm not sure actually how much, if at all, ie6 is an improvment over that... but the reality is that Mozilla is the most standards compliant browers that we know of at this time.
In time, we may here that ie6 is ahead of ns6 ... but please bear in mind that Mozilla has come MILES since netscape 6, which is what got most reviewing. I honestly think that they are pretty even right now, but seeing as it has been microsoft's long history to embrace and extend in a proprietary fashion, the burden of proof is really on MS to unseat Mozilla.
As for Konquoror, its rendering engine is terrific, but I usually don't rate it as highly because of stability issues that I have had with it... I'm not sure if that has been because of shoddy sys-admining on my part or what, but Mozilla definitely feels more solid to me. I would love to see a thourough, unbiased shootout between Konqueror, Moz, ie6 and Opera... let me know if you see any.
Netscape 6 has the best support for CSS of any commercial browser (only Mozilla, the open version of Netscape, has fewer bugs)
*Yawn*
http://www.webstandards.org/netscape6.html
Ok, you're turn.
Damn, I hadn't realised that the Mozilla browser had failed as I use it daily on 5 different computers without having had it crash for well over a month. I guess the fact that it is the most standards compliant browser ever made and that it is a joy to use are sure signs of its failure. It must all be an illusion. ;-P
Just wanted to correct a couple minor factual errors. Gtk+ is very portable, with standard ports running on Windows, BeOS and I think MacOS (9 + X?). I would also strongly suggest everyone to look into GOB, which allows you to define gtk+ objects with a very java like syntax, its pretty slick.
as for startup times, try using the quick launch in the advanced options tab... it preloads parts of mozilla, just like ie does, and now comes up faster than IE on my system.
if you really care i could upload some screen shots... they are nearly pixel identical.
There is no one true tool. Different people think and organise logical structure in different ways, this is why there are always 20 answeres to a problem in the programming world. The number of lines it takes to express a concept is a really bad measure of the ease of expression, for every line of code you write, you should be spending an order of magnitude more time planning, thinking, designing. Therefore the most important feature of a development environment is how it's logical structures sync up with your own methods of organizing and thinking. Many people find C to be much more efficient and logical that C++. Many find Python, or SmallTalk to be the be-all-end-all ... personally, I find that Java and Gtk+ have moved me the most. The most important factor is how the environment connects with the individual programmer.
That's not a discussion of opinions, that's a discussion of me proving someone just like you that he's hopelessly wrong, although he obviously won't admit it.
Is that someone you? Oh... for a second you threw me there, I almost agreed with you. :)
Not in programming. Merely counting the number of code lines needed to achieve a given task or the number of pages of docs you have to go through to get there can at least give you a good hint of what is simple and what is not.
Fewer lines of code != more logical, powerful, easy to use structure. Sorry.
What I do claim is that Qt is much better, beyond any considerations of taste or personal preference, but just by looking at how quickly you'll get the job done using it, and how maintainable your code will be.
That's a very nice personal opinion. Unfortunately, you try to take it step further and explicitely say that noone else can have a differeing view... that's pretty silly.
I'm not a Qt fan, I don't use it because I like it but because it's the best available tool for my needs
That's great, I'm honestly happy for you. Now you are starting to talk some logic. For your needs QT is the best thing out there. For some people, C based OO systems like those used in Max/MSP, PD and Gtk+ are the best answer. But you can't just leave it at that.
Sorry, counting lines of code is no proof for "ease" and power of a programming environment... if that were true visual basic would rain king. Your assertion is flawed from the start, no matter how much you type up trying to rationalise it. Your argument on d.k.o is flawed, so referencing it here as a proof is useless. Ease of use is a subjective thing.
(for the record, before you accuse me of having sentimental attachments to one product or another, implying that i am incapable of deciding rationally because of it, perhaps you should inquire as to what my favorite development environment/language is... I'll give you a hint... it isn't gtk, and it starts with a J. So thanks for the thought, but lets just keep it to the facts, ok?)
Anyhow, thanks, its been grand, but it's clear that you have your opinion and it isn't gonna change. In the mean time, I've said my peace. I'll just go on happily being language/platform agnostic.
Um... thanks for that link to a a discussion of opinions... maybe you need to take a basic english coure to understand the complexity of that word. By definition, the simplicity of a method is based on subjective opinion, and unfortunately for your silly argument, thousands of coders disagree with you and think that gtk+ is a joy to work with. Deal with it.
First off, the orignial comment was about development libraries, not IDE's. Seeing as you can just as easily develop a Gnome or CLI app in KDevelop, it really has no bearing here. Further, I have worked in companies where most of the developers used only emacs... the point is that at this point, the biggest difference between these two projects are personal taste issues. They match each other in most features. KDevelop is slick and cool, but so are Anjuta and gIDE ... blanket statements like "KDE is easier" are textbook f.u.d.
"because kde is easier"
bollocks. it's all about personal taste. I find gnome to be easier and smoother to develop with.Can you provide some proof of your assertions? I see no reference to this on the gtkhtml2 site. If they are removing the copyright notices (i highly doubt it) that would be really bad. But if they are merely porting a GPL'd codebase for their own uses, power to them, thats what the GPL is for.
What version of Nautilus? What distribution? Did you file a bug report? Honestly, nautilus 1.0 - 1.0.2 were unusable on my system, around 1.0.3 and 1.0.4 it reached much higher levels of stability.
GStreamer and Gnumeric.