Re:I have had a fearful thought....
on
KDE 2.1 Is Out
·
· Score: 1
You have some good points, but i'm amazed that people are condemning a project that is still only at 0.8!! Of course it is slow right now, optimization is the last thing you work on. The speedups in mozilla in the last few monthes are nothing but amazing. in december i would occastional run a nightly build to see how Moz was doing, and switch rigth back to 4.76. But these days i run it almost exclusively. Now that stability, useability and speed are the goal, they are progressing increadably. Everyone who called Mozilla slow and bloated is going to eat their words soon enough, trust me:)
Users are very stongly asking for the continued development of browser technology away from simple browesing. MS is banking their future on this with.NET... and criticise MS as you will, they have almost never been wrong in reading and exploiting future trends (with the glaring exception of Bob;)
Re:I have had a fearful thought....
on
KDE 2.1 Is Out
·
· Score: 2
You will be quite pleasently surprised as to what great things XUL is going to bring. Mozilla is a very real cross platform development platform, not just a browser. Its scope is really grand. Go check out XMLTerm and all the projects at mozdev.org to see the begginings of what is to come.
DOM is essential, right now web developers have to code to 3 standards, DOM is the key out of this mess. obviously you don't know much about web design issues if you simply dismiss the DOM
As far as ECMA, good enough isnt good enough for me... i want full standards support. I'm sure Konquerer will get there, but the facts remain that Mozilla is the most standards compliant browser ever implemented.
Cross Platform... i care. very very much. If you think that in a world with no Mozilla Konquerer will even cause the slightest thought in the minds of 99% of web developers, you are insane. You really can't dismiss the Apple platform, which mozilla runs very nicely on. The Linux desktop is barely a blip on the map, MS knows in order to cut off its growth, it has to have the web. If it achieves this, it starts implementing proprietart "innovations" to web development that Apache and Konquerer can't touch. What is the key to cutting off microsoft from this? Strict standards compliance, and right now this is being spear headed by Mozilla.
To be clear, i love the Konquerer exists and hope that it continues to grow, but i get sick of people spreaading fud against Mozilla as a way of promoting Konquerer.
Re:I have had a fearful thought....
on
KDE 2.1 Is Out
·
· Score: 1
AFAIK: XUL. More Complete DOM and ECMAScript. MathML. Cross Platform.
Now, I'm not trying to dis on Konquerer, but it really isnt in the same league as Mozilla.
Re:I have had a fearful thought....
on
KDE 2.1 Is Out
·
· Score: 1
*COUGH* Excuse me? XUL, MathML, cross platform, DOM support, and you can't exactly just cast off JavaScript as insignificant...
Re:I have had a fearful thought....
on
KDE 2.1 Is Out
·
· Score: 1
Please, Konquerer may be very nice, but there is absolutely no way that it can be considered ahead of Mozilla.
Re:I have had a fearful thought....
on
KDE 2.1 Is Out
·
· Score: 1
It is the opinion of many that the Gnome base librarys are much more advaced right now, but that its application support is lagging. At least until Evolution, Gnumeric, Abiword et al stabilize. Rest assured, Gnome is doing fine and will be around for a long time. The Biggest diference between the two these days are minor and mostly personal preference.
Congrats to the KDE guys, i look forward to playing with this release...
You make some very good points. Its true the Ximian and Eazel will be making their cash out of seducing wide eyed newbies like my mom into their branded Gnome, complete with paid product placements and banner adds riddled through the interface like MSN and NS6.... but like Mozilla, those of us who care will go ahead and ignore their branded version and use the less commercially polluted Branch. And this is great. The people who don't care (my mom) fund the development by paying the wages of the developers, which gives back to those of us who do care. Not much to complain about at all. I'm damn happy running my Gnome, KDE and Mozilla, and am very thankful for all the companies paying developers to bring them to me faster.
I hear that all the time, but i just can't accept that their add execs were THAT smart. I think they just got very lucky in that whole fiasco. God, why am i talking this much about coke for christ sakes??:)
You can't mess with a food that has Royal Crown as its title. But seriously, RC Cola has been around for decades in the margins, but is available in most grocery stores. And that is ok. I don't care if it is dominating that market, just that it tastes good. I feel the same about linux, it will always be here, and i prefer its taste.
One thing to consider, people don't really have reason to hate coke, or at least really arnt aware of why they should. On the other hand, MS is the company everyone loves to hate. I think that as Free Software continues to match and excel in every area that is spills into, there is a very real chance that many people will start to look up to the Linux brand, once all the fear of the new has passed.
Seeing as this thing was designed to take out very fast missiles, a big slow jet should be childs play. they say it can shoot 20-30 times as well.... i think it'll be one of the safest places to be in an airwar.
Though there are many still outstanding bugs, and NS6 is missing some features for full standards compliance, but still this was a very good move for Netscape, and really all of us who want open standards to prevail.
Right now, NS6 is Good Enough (tm) to win back many of the Netscape faithfull and M$ protestors (me included) who unfortunately were forced into using Ie due to the overwhealming crappiness of NS4.7. That brower was pathetic in comparison. NS6 really has closed the gap. And in terms of the whiz-bang factor has leapfrogged miles ahead, which, stupid or not, is an important consideration to many people. By doing this, NS will win back their hardcore following in addition to the many software users who just want the latest coolest thing. They will not obliterate Ie with this release (maybe 6.3;-P) but they DO keep themselves relevent. And everyone knows NS is really teetering on the edge or irrelevence. So Props to Netscape.
Now lets hope that 6.1, with full standards compliance comes out really soon. Though in all seriousness, i am shocked as to how much faster and more stable NS6 is than M18.
Yes, 90% of free software projects fail. It may seem that this is bad, but it isn't nessesarily. The authors that start the little redundant projects destined to fail do it mostly for fun. They probably wouldn't have been working on the other project to begin with, so we don't loose any man power. Instead we gain a wider perspective on how to solve the problem at hand.
What tends to happen is eventually one of those emerges from this "natural selection on crack" system to be better than the rest. Somehow one of the programs will just grab other developers attention and it will succeed. Basically, this is an automatic way of selecting quality of software engineering, as there is no authority there to say "you will work on this project". If i am going to devote my free time to something, i want it to be fun. Working with egotistical, stubborn or short sighted coders is no fun, so i will naturally gravitate to the project that is best suited to accept my help. I think those open projects will tend to be worked on by a more broad base, and will serve their users better. If we arbitrarily chose one to suceed for political reasons (KDE was here first, therefore we should drop GNOME! Mozillia is mozilla, drop Konquerer! Sun is Backing GNOME, drop KDE!) rather than letting the market powers chose which is more apt, then we will end up with worse software.
WIPO went on to point out was that there may be some
non-English-speaking readers who may not be familiar with the word
"sucks." These people might be confused as to whether they were looking at
the Guinness homepage or not. Therefore the test of trademark confusion
was met. I am not kidding.
True, and those same non-English speakers probably can't tell that bit.com has nothing to do with bitch.com... um... who the hell cares?
Yes there was a terrible recession in the early eighties. But my point is in regards to Reganomics (as embodied in the Bush dynasty) and Clintonomics (as carried on by Gore). The cause of the early 90's recession was not the S+L bailout, which accounted for only 20% of the increase in government spending, but the chiefly the insane tripling of the National debt from $1 to $4 trillion that we have Reagan/Bush to thank for. (ironically according to this John Birch society article) and the rediculous portion of our budget that had to be used towards paying the interest. Ironic that it took a democratic administration to lower speding on government programs.
Regan/Bush inhereted a depression in the early eighties, but continued bad financial policy that drove the economy into yet another recession in the 1990's. Whereas Clinton/Gore inhereted the Shambles of Reganomics and brought us to where we are today. GWB wants to take us back to the early 1990's by starting his economic policy by giving a huge tax cut to the people who need it least.
Sour grapes, an old political tactic. When your party doesn't have the presidency say that it was all the fault of the president, but when your party controls the oval office say it was the fault of the legislature. Nobody buys this, that is why Clinton got reelected in spite of a the most intensive investigation of a public figure EVER (which incidentally turned up nothing). He got reelected because the public correctly sees the important role the Pres plays in setting out and implementing economic policy, and his policies have succeeded beyond anyones wildest dreams. Furthermore, the PEAK of this nasty Trickle-Down recession was in the Bush years, you have a hard argument ahead of you to try to say that Regan inhereted a future recession.
And what might these mysterious powers be? The power to tax and setup social programs... no those seem to be doing just fine after 200 years of judicial review.
I'm happy that the system is fine for you. But unfortunately the bottom of society is America is living in poverty on par with that of China and India. The system is not currently working for everyone as it is promised to, and no, i won't loose any sleep over the high taxes given to the priveldged few at the top in order to correct this through "big government" programs such as schools that don't have leaking roof's, national health care so not only the rich can be healthy and public transit for all.
The diference is that Trickle-Down is a radical rightist idea that appeared in the 1980's that goverment should play as close to no role in the economic system as possible. Raw unchecked capitalism concentrates wealth at the top. America is a prime example of this. 90% of the nation's weath is in the hands of the top 10% of the people. 50% is in the hands of the top 1%. This is insane. So yes, as you contend Trickle-Down is just a fancy name for raw unchecked capitalism, and that is precisily the problem.
What annoys me is that rightist like to say the "economics" is strongly on their side, as if there was any semblance agreement on these issues in the economic community. No, Trickle-Down, give-it-to-the-rich-so-they-invest-more-of-it is far from the only legitimate economic theory. In fact, Trickle-Down had its chance for 12 years, and where did it take us? The biggest recession since the Great Depression (thank you Regan/Bush). Unfortunately economics (or anything else really) is not as simple and concrete as libertarians would like us to believe. The biggest falacy of this system is that this invested money ever "trickles" out of the closed circle at the top of the ladder. The more left leaning ideas that you need to balance the degree of social programs with the amount of capital the rich retain have been proving themselves rather nicely in Europe and in America for the last 8 years.
And before you say it, nobody is raised in a bubble, nobody deserves sole credit for their standing (do you think B. Gates is 100,000 smarter and ingenuitive than Alan Cox?:). We are all products of this great society we have built together, it is not us and them.
oh right, i forgot. there is only one school of economics, and that is the 20 year old, prooven to have failed idiotic idea of "tricle-down" economics. please.
Slashdot Mirror
You have some good points, but i'm amazed that people are condemning a project that is still only at 0.8!! Of course it is slow right now, optimization is the last thing you work on. The speedups in mozilla in the last few monthes are nothing but amazing. in december i would occastional run a nightly build to see how Moz was doing, and switch rigth back to 4.76. But these days i run it almost exclusively. Now that stability, useability and speed are the goal, they are progressing increadably. Everyone who called Mozilla slow and bloated is going to eat their words soon enough, trust me :)
Users are very stongly asking for the continued development of browser technology away from simple browesing. MS is banking their future on this with .NET ... and criticise MS as you will, they have almost never been wrong in reading and exploiting future trends (with the glaring exception of Bob ;)
You will be quite pleasently surprised as to what great things XUL is going to bring. Mozilla is a very real cross platform development platform, not just a browser. Its scope is really grand. Go check out XMLTerm and all the projects at mozdev.org to see the begginings of what is to come.
DOM is essential, right now web developers have to code to 3 standards, DOM is the key out of this mess. obviously you don't know much about web design issues if you simply dismiss the DOM
As far as ECMA, good enough isnt good enough for me... i want full standards support. I'm sure Konquerer will get there, but the facts remain that Mozilla is the most standards compliant browser ever implemented.
Cross Platform... i care. very very much. If you think that in a world with no Mozilla Konquerer will even cause the slightest thought in the minds of 99% of web developers, you are insane. You really can't dismiss the Apple platform, which mozilla runs very nicely on. The Linux desktop is barely a blip on the map, MS knows in order to cut off its growth, it has to have the web. If it achieves this, it starts implementing proprietart "innovations" to web development that Apache and Konquerer can't touch. What is the key to cutting off microsoft from this? Strict standards compliance, and right now this is being spear headed by Mozilla.
To be clear, i love the Konquerer exists and hope that it continues to grow, but i get sick of people spreaading fud against Mozilla as a way of promoting Konquerer.
AFAIK: XUL. More Complete DOM and ECMAScript. MathML. Cross Platform.
Now, I'm not trying to dis on Konquerer, but it really isnt in the same league as Mozilla.
*COUGH* Excuse me? XUL, MathML, cross platform, DOM support, and you can't exactly just cast off JavaScript as insignificant...
Please, Konquerer may be very nice, but there is absolutely no way that it can be considered ahead of Mozilla.
It is the opinion of many that the Gnome base librarys are much more advaced right now, but that its application support is lagging. At least until Evolution, Gnumeric, Abiword et al stabilize. Rest assured, Gnome is doing fine and will be around for a long time. The Biggest diference between the two these days are minor and mostly personal preference. Congrats to the KDE guys, i look forward to playing with this release...
I posted this to the dot.kde.org forum:
You make some very good points. Its true the Ximian and Eazel will be making their cash out of seducing wide eyed newbies like my mom into their branded Gnome, complete with paid product placements and banner adds riddled through the interface like MSN and NS6.... but like Mozilla, those of us who care will go ahead and ignore their branded version and use the less commercially polluted Branch. And this is great. The people who don't care (my mom) fund the development by paying the wages of the developers, which gives back to those of us who do care. Not much to complain about at all. I'm damn happy running my Gnome, KDE and Mozilla, and am very thankful for all the companies paying developers to bring them to me faster.
I hear that all the time, but i just can't accept that their add execs were THAT smart. I think they just got very lucky in that whole fiasco. God, why am i talking this much about coke for christ sakes?? :)
That was cokes attempt to mimic the pepsi formula. We all remember how well that went...
You can't mess with a food that has Royal Crown as its title. But seriously, RC Cola has been around for decades in the margins, but is available in most grocery stores. And that is ok. I don't care if it is dominating that market, just that it tastes good. I feel the same about linux, it will always be here, and i prefer its taste.
One thing to consider, people don't really have reason to hate coke, or at least really arnt aware of why they should. On the other hand, MS is the company everyone loves to hate. I think that as Free Software continues to match and excel in every area that is spills into, there is a very real chance that many people will start to look up to the Linux brand, once all the fear of the new has passed.
correct me if i'm wrong, but doesnt Red Hat make a profit? I honestly don't know.
Seeing as this thing was designed to take out very fast missiles, a big slow jet should be childs play. they say it can shoot 20-30 times as well.... i think it'll be one of the safest places to be in an airwar.
Though there are many still outstanding bugs, and NS6 is missing some features for full standards compliance, but still this was a very good move for Netscape, and really all of us who want open standards to prevail.
Right now, NS6 is Good Enough (tm) to win back many of the Netscape faithfull and M$ protestors (me included) who unfortunately were forced into using Ie due to the overwhealming crappiness of NS4.7. That brower was pathetic in comparison. NS6 really has closed the gap. And in terms of the whiz-bang factor has leapfrogged miles ahead, which, stupid or not, is an important consideration to many people. By doing this, NS will win back their hardcore following in addition to the many software users who just want the latest coolest thing. They will not obliterate Ie with this release (maybe 6.3 ;-P) but they DO keep themselves relevent. And everyone knows NS is really teetering on the edge or irrelevence. So Props to Netscape.
Now lets hope that 6.1, with full standards compliance comes out really soon. Though in all seriousness, i am shocked as to how much faster and more stable NS6 is than M18.
Nice work.optimisation is the last thing they will work on.
Yes, 90% of free software projects fail. It may seem that this is bad, but it isn't nessesarily. The authors that start the little redundant projects destined to fail do it mostly for fun. They probably wouldn't have been working on the other project to begin with, so we don't loose any man power. Instead we gain a wider perspective on how to solve the problem at hand.
What tends to happen is eventually one of those emerges from this "natural selection on crack" system to be better than the rest. Somehow one of the programs will just grab other developers attention and it will succeed. Basically, this is an automatic way of selecting quality of software engineering, as there is no authority there to say "you will work on this project". If i am going to devote my free time to something, i want it to be fun. Working with egotistical, stubborn or short sighted coders is no fun, so i will naturally gravitate to the project that is best suited to accept my help. I think those open projects will tend to be worked on by a more broad base, and will serve their users better. If we arbitrarily chose one to suceed for political reasons (KDE was here first, therefore we should drop GNOME! Mozillia is mozilla, drop Konquerer! Sun is Backing GNOME, drop KDE!) rather than letting the market powers chose which is more apt, then we will end up with worse software.WIPO went on to point out was that there may be some non-English-speaking readers who may not be familiar with the word "sucks." These people might be confused as to whether they were looking at the Guinness homepage or not. Therefore the test of trademark confusion was met. I am not kidding. True, and those same non-English speakers probably can't tell that bit.com has nothing to do with bitch.com... um... who the hell cares?
Yes there was a terrible recession in the early eighties. But my point is in regards to Reganomics (as embodied in the Bush dynasty) and Clintonomics (as carried on by Gore). The cause of the early 90's recession was not the S+L bailout, which accounted for only 20% of the increase in government spending, but the chiefly the insane tripling of the National debt from $1 to $4 trillion that we have Reagan/Bush to thank for. (ironically according to this John Birch society article) and the rediculous portion of our budget that had to be used towards paying the interest. Ironic that it took a democratic administration to lower speding on government programs.
Regan/Bush inhereted a depression in the early eighties, but continued bad financial policy that drove the economy into yet another recession in the 1990's. Whereas Clinton/Gore inhereted the Shambles of Reganomics and brought us to where we are today. GWB wants to take us back to the early 1990's by starting his economic policy by giving a huge tax cut to the people who need it least.
Sour grapes, an old political tactic. When your party doesn't have the presidency say that it was all the fault of the president, but when your party controls the oval office say it was the fault of the legislature. Nobody buys this, that is why Clinton got reelected in spite of a the most intensive investigation of a public figure EVER (which incidentally turned up nothing). He got reelected because the public correctly sees the important role the Pres plays in setting out and implementing economic policy, and his policies have succeeded beyond anyones wildest dreams. Furthermore, the PEAK of this nasty Trickle-Down recession was in the Bush years, you have a hard argument ahead of you to try to say that Regan inhereted a future recession.
And what might these mysterious powers be? The power to tax and setup social programs... no those seem to be doing just fine after 200 years of judicial review.
You failed, show me WHERE in the constitution it says this? You can't because it doesn't.
I'm happy that the system is fine for you. But unfortunately the bottom of society is America is living in poverty on par with that of China and India. The system is not currently working for everyone as it is promised to, and no, i won't loose any sleep over the high taxes given to the priveldged few at the top in order to correct this through "big government" programs such as schools that don't have leaking roof's, national health care so not only the rich can be healthy and public transit for all.
please show me where it says that america cannot be a socialist democracy?
The diference is that Trickle-Down is a radical rightist idea that appeared in the 1980's that goverment should play as close to no role in the economic system as possible. Raw unchecked capitalism concentrates wealth at the top. America is a prime example of this. 90% of the nation's weath is in the hands of the top 10% of the people. 50% is in the hands of the top 1%. This is insane. So yes, as you contend Trickle-Down is just a fancy name for raw unchecked capitalism, and that is precisily the problem.
What annoys me is that rightist like to say the "economics" is strongly on their side, as if there was any semblance agreement on these issues in the economic community. No, Trickle-Down, give-it-to-the-rich-so-they-invest-more-of-it is far from the only legitimate economic theory. In fact, Trickle-Down had its chance for 12 years, and where did it take us? The biggest recession since the Great Depression (thank you Regan/Bush). Unfortunately economics (or anything else really) is not as simple and concrete as libertarians would like us to believe. The biggest falacy of this system is that this invested money ever "trickles" out of the closed circle at the top of the ladder. The more left leaning ideas that you need to balance the degree of social programs with the amount of capital the rich retain have been proving themselves rather nicely in Europe and in America for the last 8 years.
And before you say it, nobody is raised in a bubble, nobody deserves sole credit for their standing (do you think B. Gates is 100,000 smarter and ingenuitive than Alan Cox?:). We are all products of this great society we have built together, it is not us and them.
oh right, i forgot. there is only one school of economics, and that is the 20 year old, prooven to have failed idiotic idea of "tricle-down" economics. please.