Posted by
CmdrTaco
on from the good-luck-actually-downloading-it dept.
kvandivo writes: "It's now official. Netscape
is now shipping 6 (at least for windows, linux, and mac..)"
It'll probably be just a bit before anyone will actually be able
to download it from any of the official servers.
544 comments
NS 6 License sez they can publish your name
by
chimera0z0
·
· Score: 1
Has anyone else noticed this?
"Netscape 6 License, Section 14: Miscellaneous, part q:
Licensor may use Licensee's name in any customer reference list or in any press release issued by Licensor regarding the licensing of the Product and/or provide Licensee's name and the names of the Product licensed by Licensee to third parties."
Re:Hey try to log-in to your HOTMAIL accounts!
by
hagar1968
·
· Score: 1
The incorrect implementation of SSL was a known issue in PR3. In the release version this works fine.
You know what? I like it.
by
StarbuckZero
·
· Score: 1
I install it at work on Windows NT but I took it off because of IE and Netscape was fighting over who wanted to load up what so I took it off. That and my profile that I upload to the network got to big and I couldn't change where to put the files. I have install here at home on Windows 2K and I do like it. It could be because I have a lot of ram(224MB) or it could be that I like that fact that Netscape is more into Java and not VB/ ActiveX controls. I was a big fan of Netscape back in the days and I hate how IE took me by storm. Why? Because it started coming with Windows and after a while downloading Netscape on a 56k was pointless when you have IE 5.0 on your computer.
The pages load up fast(for me anyways) and I do like that fact that it do have skins. I say compare to the new MSN browser I like NS 6 better. I feel that I could be one of them people that report bugs and stuff. So I will set back and surf the web with it, besides I miss Netscape. Long as it can load Java and Flash then I'm okay. If a web site that I want to go to real bad doesn't come up right then I'll just start up IE.
As for my Linux boot I will still install NS 6, but like I said I still will start up something diffirent if or when a web page doesn't come up right. I figure that AOL/Netscape is trying, I'm not going to down them or flame them for that. Some people just go on how much they hate it, but it's one thing I always say. If you don't like it then don't use it. If you like it in someway and you want to help then get active and see what you can do. Don't just flame them, hell if you go to Help>Feekback Center... I'm just thinkin' but they will listen.
That's all I have to say now... Just speaking my mind...I am open up to be flamed.
-- From Zero to Hero... Starbuck Zero
Re:Internut Exploder vs. Nutscrape Nab-a-gator!
by
maren
·
· Score: 1
Well, do you own a legit version of windows? If so I assume you paid for it, and as IE is part of windows, you paid for it as well:)
Yes, I'm aware of that you can run IE (slow, buggy, weird) under Solaris, although I'm not familiar with licensing issues in that case.
A lot of people seem to think that IE, IS and other hideously-named MS products bundled with different MS Operating System are free.
Re:6 for Mac, in a word, Blows. In a few more word
by
MrDalliard
·
· Score: 1
Having used it for the sum total of an hour, I have to agree.
It doesn't seem to display a single web page. Most pages come up blank. It seems even more stupid that netscape.com doesn't display...
The app takes about 10 seconds on my iBook (G3/466) to fire up. Totally unacceptable.
I've been using Communicator 4.7x for what seems like an eternity. I think I'll stick with it.
This is a real slap in the face for Mac users. This product in my opinion is a total turkey. If you can't actually use it to browse, what's the point. This also seems ironic, because most Mac users were the ones who stood by Netscape as it's market share got munched into by IE. Quite frankly, I think that IE is a better browser (lower memory usage too), but as I'm lazy and like one application to handle everything, I'll stick with Nutscoop 4.7x.
Finally, I can't seem to get rid of that initial customisation window that comes up.
Netscape has shot itself in the foot bigtime.... time to find a good alternative, I think.
It might be different for Windows 2000 (I can't imagine it being that much different, though), but C|Net has posted benchmarks comparing Netscape 6, Netscape 4.7x, and IE 5.5.
I was referring to speed, though, not overall score. Overall, it's just personal preference either way.
--
.sig: Open Source, Open Mind
Anyone use the Newsreader??
by
byronbussey
·
· Score: 1
The newsreader seemed TO BOG DOWN SO BADLY. Just switching between posts took considerable disk access, while im on a slow computer it's 20 times slower that my old Netscape newsreader. It's a shamebecause page display has been sped up.
--
The surest way to make a monkey of a man
is to quote him. --Robert Benchley
Re:Hey try to log-in to your HOTMAIL accounts!
by
Down8
·
· Score: 1
Umm, you can get rid of the sidebar. Just click the view menu, then uncheck "My Sidebar". You can also get rid of the IM at installation, along with mail, chat, and news. I'm just running the browser and nothing but the browser.
--
"We obviously need a new moderation category: (-1, Woo-fucking-hoo)" --Mr. AC
Re:to describe Mozilla to Joe Sixpak
by
Tarnar
·
· Score: 2
I'd describe it as more of a movie that's been edited for TV: Running time trimmed.
That is to say the development was trimmed, as is the uptime of the damn program!
After all, a Director's Cut isn't always a bad thing. Netscape 6.0 will always be a bad thing:)
Re:From an IE user...
by
Stu+Charlton
·
· Score: 1
No, specifically it is the "Imported IE Favorites" folder that doesn't seem to be draggable. Hrm.
Because they left in the moronic bug where you have to run it as root the first time. -- Obfuscated e-mail addresses won't stop sadistic 12-year-old ACs.
1. I have broadband both at home, and at work. Furthermore, I'm in Japan. I began downloading the Mac version this morning while in the shower, and 12 minutes later, it was done. This from an asia-pacific server. Later in the day, I downloaded the Windows version at work, and it took around 15 minutes. That's not that bad, considering it's around 25 megs and there are lots of people getting it.
2. 1/3 the load up speed of IE 5.5? Hmm. That's a bit of an exagerration by my experience. Unless you have IE 5.5 pre-loaded in memory...
3. What's unintuitive about the interface? It's just like every other version of Netscape -- just prettier.. the side bar is pretty much the same as what IE 5 on the Macintosh has.
My UI complaints right now are:
- Some themes seem to lack quality control. The "mozzilion modern" theme, for instance, has redraw problems with the scroll bars.
- the radio button controls have redraw problems. When I click on them, they sometimes disappear
- mouseover() events in Javascript are dog slow and cause this funny "white trailing line" if I scroll across a typical web page menu that uses them. Go see http://developer.bea.com for an example.
4. Haven't used the mail/news module enough yet, but right now I do like Outlook Express (especially the Mac version).
As for what "open source" can do, I think you're being a closed-minded troll. It's not about open or closed source, it's about trying to do something completely different -- and then having to ship it. There's always teething problems with a 1.0 release.
Am I 100% pleased with NS6? Not at all.. but they didn't blow it for me.. yet. I've been using IE for over 2 years now but I'll switch back to NS 6 in the interim.
IE 5.5 *IS* preloaded into memory, at least on WIndows... Lost of the windows OS uses the ie stuff so basically most of it is already there when iexplore.exe is executed
-- if (!signature) {
throw std::runtime_error("No sig!");
}
Netscape 6 is OK under Win32, but the Linux aint
by
mike_diack
·
· Score: 1
Downloaded both yesterday.
Win32 version is actually quite good.
But the Linux version is TERRIBLE.
It's hard to believe (esp as a developer)
that they are from the same codebase...
Under Linux it crashes more often than 4.76
(I didn't that was possible!)
and Java support neither works, nor does the
ability to download the java support.
Terrible. Why can't they package Java in
the Linux version like they did for Win32
rather than relying on d/ling a plug in, given the prevelance of Java these days.
It greatly saddens me to see just how
poor the Linux version is.
Netscape 6 is the perfect example of why "blanket rewrites" never work out the way you intend them to.
First of all, let me say that I'm so far moderately impressed with NS 6. I've seen the prior PR releases and Mozilla builds, and this actually looks and feels like a "release" quality product. I always felt the Mozilla and PR releases just plainly sucked for polish and buginess. For NS 6, Netscape has done a tremendous polish job , and I'm very surprised they released it this early with this level of quality.
Now, having said that, their polish job wasn't nearly enough for this to be a *great* release. Rewriting a product is *always* chasing a moving target... and requires bug fix after requirements change after headache after political battle... ad nauseum.
The worst thing about rewrites is that usually developers are screaming for *another* rewrite by the time the rewrite is finished, because it has already begun to rot. I really, really, hope this isn't the case with NS 6.
The aftermath of this release is going to be:
- The impatient ones (i.e. 70% of web users) are going scream murder at Netscape's incompetence at releasing so many bugs. (ignoring that Linux 2.4 is over a year late, Netscape 6 is now around 1.5 years late, etc.)
- The slightly patient ones (leftovers, i.e. me) will be somewhat disappointed, but hopeful based on initial experience.
They really have to placate that last crowd. And if the code isn't clean, there's no time for another rewrite. If the majority of quirks aren't fixed in short order (i.e. Netscape 6.1 within 6 months), Netscape will probably remain a niche browser for UNIX platforms, while Windows and Mac users remain with IE. IE is just too good of a product now to choose not to use it for purely "but it's Microsoft" reasons.
For now I'm going to stick with NS 6 to get used to it more. At first I almost gave up on NS 6 really quickly for odd quirks, but they somehow cleared up after I rebooted my machine. (Go figure). Anyway.
-- -Stu
Advice to Netscape from Europe
by
NKJensen
·
· Score: 1
I won't download on my modem at home. This basic setup-file just won't do.
Please provide the full install pack, so that I can take it with me home on a CD-ROM.
I can't even do basic things like getElementById in IE...
I hate playing devil's advocate, but that is one thing you can do that works in IE... getElementById() works just fine (although I think it is a little too permitive - it also gets elements whose names are passed, which is wrong - for that you should use getElementsByName() ). At least in IE 5.x.
There are other (rather basic) things that do not work in IE, like the constants defined in the Node class (e.g., Node.TEXT_NODE raises a javascript error).
--
Marcelo Vanzin
--
Marcelo Vanzin
Re:Wow! I can't add helper apps!
by
Down8
·
· Score: 1
I think you have the wrong version, as the option to ad mime types is in the final version I have: See...?
uhhh, the reason that it "won't even debug" is that you ran netscape in the background, when it prompted you to type 'yes or no' you were at a bash prompt. if you were to type 'fg netscape' and THEN type 'y' it ought to work just fine. notice how bash told you "bash: y: command not found" ??
Re:Its been out a couple days.
by
linuxgod
·
· Score: 1
HAHAH, I make 3x more than you.
I could house you, my family, your family, and the rest of this lame town.
ETRN x
Re:At least that's constant 25 MB.
by
Down8
·
· Score: 1
For the 1st: Conventionally, 'bloat' has not refered to memory usage, but extra, useless programs and a large base of files installed to the harddrive.
Second: I have not been able to get NS6 to use more than 22MB of RAM. I open more windows, I click on multiple links in those windows, and it never goes above 22MB.
I guesss I'm lucky.
-bZj
-- .sig
Re:I'll see it once and for all: Mozilla is crap
by
CondeZer0
·
· Score: 1
> It is the same crap as Netscape. The exact same bugs and performance issues.
You mean that no bugs where fixed in the last two months? Please, take a look at bugzilla and you will see...
Only one example: The recnte nightlys include the new ViewManager that fixed MANY CSS opacity and positioning bugs and improves performance.(Bug: #39621)
Mozilla is the best browser I know that run on all my boxes(Debian, FreeBSD, Win2k, Solaris,...)(well, Lynx aside;) )
And if you know a more standards compliant browser, please tell me.
> If I can't get the source, I can't trust.
At least you can get the Mozilla source code, may be you can ask M$ for the IE source... or AOL for the Netscape source... I wonder what they added/removed to Mozilla:)
Best regards
Uriel
- - - - - -
-- "When in doubt, use brute force." Ken Thompson
Depressing...*but* - Netscape6/Mozilla sloooow
by
mojo-raisin
·
· Score: 1
Nope, actually CNET was being generous. Gecko is exteremly slow - much slower than 4.76 even.
For example, trying to load a simple html file from the hard drive (/usr/doc/glibc-doc/libc.html in debian/woody) that is 3.4MB takes over 145 seconds (current Mozilla and NS6 same results). On 4.76, the same file loads in under 9 seconds.
Searches for text within a loaded file are also rediculously slow in Mozilla/NS6. On a long file, the closer you get to the bottom of the document, the longer the searches take! It can take many seconds for a search to advance just one line of text in a big document.
I don't use Windows, but I'm sure IE trashes Mozilla in these arenas. Gecko has a lot of growing to do.
Re:IE held cached page
by
IntlHarvester
·
· Score: 1
Hate to say it, but IE's cache actually works properly, where NS4's is horrifically broken. (Resize a window to see this. Does it cache anything at all?)
Netscape.com's webmasters probably had the wrong expire date on the page, and IE just did the right thing and pulled it from cache. --
Incorrect my friend. As the name implies, 'Communicator' is the bundled package of all the Mail/Browser/News/etc. The browser-only was Called 'Navigator' back in the day.
God, I miss 3 Gold.
-bZj
-- .sig
me too, NS runs out of the box, Mozilla crashes
by
zzzeek
·
· Score: 1
After reading here how much better mozilla is these days I decided to try it yet again (my previous experiences with it have all been negative, as far as it being a usable product and not just "lots of 'cool' shit"), and i got these identical results on RH6.2. Wont even run. Tried two different installers. Tried every binary, all the shell scripts, run as root, etc., depending on what i do, i either get core dump, segmentation fault, or a bunch of debug messages and it just returns to the prompt. NS6.0 on the other hand ran perfectly well immediately, java applets and all, and i ran it for several hours with no crashes. I even could switch the theme to the classic netscape theme and not that awful "Love Boat" theme they have now. So they must have changed *something*.
In the next 6 months my bets would be with AOL/Netscape as far as a usable product since they will be mostly concerned with end-user satisfaction (i.e., it works, reads all the crappy geocities pages without crashing, reads all the stupid DHTML garbage without showing a blank screen, etc) rather than putting an unstable and complicated version of every kitchen sink the W3 comes up with in it. And who cares about how either of these run on Windows anyway, use IE on windows until AOL gets everyone to use Linux-based appliances.
Re:Its been out a couple days.
by
linuxgod
·
· Score: 1
BTW. "ya" is sweedish you dumbass.
ETRN x
Hey try to log-in to your HOTMAIL accounts!
by
StarbuckZero
·
· Score: 1
Hey I couldn't log-in to my second/junk mail account! The funny thing is that I start up IE and it works! If anyone that is using NS 6 can't log-in to there hotmail account plz post. I'm using Windows 2K now but this moring at work I log-in with Windows NT just fine.
That's EXACTLY why they release a bug infested browser. Bad press is better than no press at all. All the tech and news sites lambasting Netscape today are only setting themselves up for future comeback kid stories. Netscape knows it has a good browser and they are scripting themselves into a publicity bonanza when 6.1 is released 2 months from now. You heard it here first.
I wont be surprised if they arent sitting on 6.1 right now.
The nightly builds from mozilla.org are already leaps and bounds ahead of the buggy product that Netscape is pushing onto the world. (2 frozen screens and reboots in the first 10 minutes of using 6.0, everything fine on the Nov 12th Nightly.)
Oh yeah, and a free clue to the Netscape rebadgers: I'm already online, so WHY THE F**K WOULD I WANT AN AOL ICON ON MY DESKTOP?
The nightly builds from mozilla.org are already leaps and bounds ahead of the buggy product that Netscape is pushing onto the world. (
Great. All Mozilla needs to do now is tell the rest of the world (apart from the techies and those in the IT Industry i.e. Joe Average who uses a browser), that they have a browser, and who they are. Most consumers will recognise Internet Explorer, and some might even recognise Nutscrape, but few will recognise Mozilla. Having a great browser means absolutely nothing if A) you can't ship release code (they've had two years), and B) noone knows who/what mozilla is.
Or you could run 6.0 and submit bug report after bug report after bug report with their included bug report tool. By the time 6.1 is released, they'll either remove this tool or completely ignore everything you send in.
-- I'm going to go back in my box and will think within the limits of my box: MS Sucks Linux Good I read too much Slashdot.
I downloaded the latest nightly build (13 November) last night and tried to run it under Mandrake 7.1. After installing Java plug-in, I can longer go to web sites such as www.javasoft.com - Mozilla just vanishes from my screen.
Even if it does work, there is no way I'm running anything as root unless it is absolutely necessary. And the buggy netscape 6.0 is not what I consider necessary. I'll wait till they fix it. ___
-- ___
If you think big enough, you'll never have to do it.
Only if the Mozilla folks finally start to see the big picture...
I downloaded 110904, and upon first start it asked if I wanted to open Web shortcuts with it, I told it no. This of course did not stop it from associating all my images and XML files with it.
And the next time I started up, it did not even ask and went ahead and associated all my HTML files with it. (Windows)
and don't even get me started about the keyboard shortcuts not working well, and the nonstandard user interface so my assistive technology (Dragon) does not work with it...
>Oh yeah, and a free clue to the Netscape rebadgers:
>I'm already online, so WHY THE F**K WOULD I WANT AN
>AOL ICON ON MY DESKTOP?
Lessee...
- AOL owns Netscape
- AOL has a history of advertising itself by putting itself everywhere you look - your tv, your mailbox, your email, your toilet, etc...
Put these 2 together, and it's a wonder that installing Netscape doesn't automagically wipe out any internet connection settings you might already have and replace them with AOL -- all "To make your life easier" as AOL reps tell it. (A la AOL 6.0)
Don't get me wrong - I disagree with this "In your face" style of advertising something that 90% of people aren't going to want - but I see it as a perfectly plausible thing for AOL to do, considering their record.
Oh yeah you get that very difficult confirm dialog that says something like "You can't store this in the recycle bin are you sure you want to permanently delete it? " and then you have to move the mouse all the way over to the buttons and click on the right one. I guess if you didn't have any arms or legs that might be a difficult action to perform so you could technically say that the icons were 'undeletable'.
Well or you might be using that oh-so-impossible to use add-on TweakUI which makes it nearly impossible to customize Windows.
Damn MS, their just so ignorant of what the customer really wants.
-- "Do not be swept up in the momentum of mediocrity." - anon
I agree. Not 5 minutes into the load (install flaked out if I check the Java 2 box) and it crashed.
Plus, I can't save my prefs.
Typical Netscape garbage.
Uh, the point is that you needed some form of connection to get the thing in the first place -- why the hell piss off the majority of end-users who are fine with what they have. Hell, the VAST majority of internet users (what is it, about 95% of internet users are non-AOL users?) use something other than AOL, although I'm SURE all of them have heard of AOL.
I'm sure the in-your-face advertising works (AOL has been around a lot longer than 10 years), but only to a certain point. Even [most] car salesmen know where to draw the line!
Here's my Netscape 6 F*CK-UP story: after installation, all the icons on my desktop (Win2000) became AOL icons (and stayed that way) -- scared the sh*t out of me. After running it and seeing the same slow, buggy crap I've always expected from AOL and other big companies, I promptly uninstalled it -- luckily it appears to have uninstalled properly. (if you don't hear from me for a few days, assume the worst!)
Face it, AOL is the number one ISP the same way that Apple used to be the number one computer maker -- 90% of the rest of the world STILL doesn't use their service! Are you trying to tell us that is the goal of their in-your-face advertising??? I think not... The simple fact is that the vast majority of people don't use their service and don't need it.
How do you report a bug in their bug reporting tool?
I used to have problems with this in NS4. It would crash the bug reporter would open up to report the bug, then the bug reporter would crash.
-- "Do not be swept up in the momentum of mediocrity." - anon
Oh yeah, and a free clue to the Netscape rebadgers: I'm already online, so WHY THE F**K WOULD I WANT AN AOL ICON ON MY DESKTOP?
AOL went from 0 to one of the biggest companies in the world in less than 10 short years. You, you're just another whiner on slashdot. Clearly one of you has the better grasp of marketing. I WONDER WHO THE F**K THAT WOULD BE?
They added that feature in Windows 95 OSR2 and up. In Windows 95 original it wouldn't let you delete it at all. You had to either use Tweak UI or delete the appropriate registry keys.
I think that he's talking about stuff like the old Microsoft "inbox" and MSN which used to be very hard to get rid of. They aren't anymore... but under Win95 they were a pain.
-- Dissolve... Resolve... Evolve...
Re:Wait for 6.1!
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 1
How long have you had this sig? Do you change it on a schedule?
I just installed Netscape 6, played with it for about 20 minutes, got sick, uninstalled it and in a few minutes I'm going to go shower after I post this with my handy dandy Internet Explorer 5.5.
My major concern was that it took 20 megs once loaded, and took a while to load on my win2kpro k6-2/500 & 256mb ram machine. The next thing is the size kept increasing on me. When I finally quit Netscape6 it was taking 37 megs up.
The rendering seems slower than IE. It may not be, but the way it renders pages seemed slow.
I'll be waiting for 6.1 before I try again, but at how it stands now... if you didn't know that Netscape was owned by AOL, you can certainly tell it is by looking at this.
Since the first build I downloaded (early this summer, I think), the Mozilla Win32 binary has ALWAYS asked on first load which files you want to associate with it... There's a seperate checkbox for each and every one of those files you're complaining about. I generally let it open.js files and turn the rest of the options off. It's really not that hard to do, nor has it ever 'forgotten' on me and chosen to open them all anyhow.
The saving preferences actually works now... that annoyed the hell out of me too. Try downloading a newer build... there's a reason Netscape chose to release now... it's semi-useable (more so than IE2 was, and MS released that...)
Install it as a user, just put it in ~/ns6 or something. It should work fine then. My girlfriend ran into this same problem. She tried installing it as root, but then running it as a user didn't work and just segfaulted.
understood. having ie treated the same as network neighborhood, my computer and recycle bin falls under the whole browser/os integration, I know. it's just not as insurmountable as it is made out to be.
--
There is much cruelty in the universe, John. Yeah, we seem to have the tour map.
Really? Well, you're better off than me then. For me it doesn't even start. "Segmentation fault on line 29" or something like that. Running on Mandrake 7.2 (hehe -- trying to:-)
___
-- ___
If you think big enough, you'll never have to do it.
- AOL has a history of advertising itself by putting itself everywhere you look - your tv, your mailbox, your email, your toilet, etc...
I would love AOL toilet paper. Imagine wiping your ass on that stupid running AIM guy.
At least it's not one of those 'Undeletable' icons that Microsoft likes putting on the desktop.
Hmm. THAT'S a good reason for not opening up the Windows APIs - Not letting AOL take over your entire OS just because you've installed Winamp or something.
One good thing about the Netscape 6 install is that the bloody AIM crap is optional, and it DOESN'T try to register itself as the default viewer for every filetype imaginable, whether you want it to or not.
it should be more consistent like the collection of Tk/Motif/Qt/GTK+/ncurses/console applications that he should be running on his
3l33t linux box. Or the collection on MFC / VCL / Other [MSN, WMP] on his Windows box. I know Linux uses more than one toolkit, but Windows uses more than one toolkit too. Yes it sucks, but its common.
So I realised a few mins after posting.
Would it be too much bother to them to make
the crash manager reattach itself to the
calling tty. Jeez kids, we were doing this
kind of stuff in the 70s. But maybe Linux
won't let you (I left this OS stuff behind
many moons ago).
OK, so run it in the foreground. Mother still dumps core. Moz is a waste of time at this stage,
wipe it.
The mans point is that it is not consistent with his other applications.
you're right. it should be more consistent like the collection of Tk/Motif/Qt/GTK+/ncurses/console applications that he should be running on his 3l33t linux box.
I hope bug fixes will be quick!
by
semajgnol
·
· Score: 1
Since there has been so much talk over the "bugs" in the last preview of Netscape6.. I hope the folks at AOL/Netscape make every effort to quickly fix all the bugs that have pending bug patches. Lets see Netscape 6.1 soon:)
-- There are over 5 billion people in the world, why spend time with the bad ones.
For a more realistic view of the memory usage, look at this.
I wasn't doing anything but looking at Slashdot in both browsers.
-bZj
-- .sig
Re:Win32 is speedy, but.. NOT EVEN CLOSE
by
mojo-raisin
·
· Score: 1
Mozilla/NS6 are slow. I keep reading about it being fast... but I don't get it. At least on my PII 400 running Debian/Woody.
First off. Everything is............ lagged - Bring up preferences, browsing menus, opening a new browser window.... EVERYTHING.
Secondly. Rendering speed: I Do Not See It. Here is a quantitative test:
Try to load a simple html file from the hard drive (/usr/doc/glibc-doc/libc.html in debian/woody) that is 3.4MB. It takes over 145 seconds (current Mozilla and NS6 same results)!!! On 4.76, the same file loads in under 9 seconds.
Searches for text within a loaded file are also rediculously slow in Mozilla/NS6. On a long file, the closer you get to the bottom of the document, the longer the searches take! It can take many seconds for a search to advance just one line of text in a big document.
So, let's please dispense with the "VERY fast" rumours. It makes us look stupid.
Well, Netscape 'invented' the majority of simple HTML code.
-bZj
-- .sig
Re:Get the Native Windows skin
by
IntlHarvester
·
· Score: 1
I like Native.Windows too, but I was just playing with it, and it does not pick up customized desktop settings, such as menu fonts and the like.
This is an issue because people with poor vision and so on need to have strange desktop settings, which is why Microsoft requires that apps pick up these settings in their guidelines. --
I personally think that trying to apply the Open Source development model for Netscape 6 resulted in a bloated, overdone program that is inferior to Internet Explorer.
The nice thing about the Linux kernel (and Apache) is that at least they haven't suffered from an excessive case of "featureitis."
For Windows 95/98/ME/2000 users, they're not going to bother with Netscape 6 given its bigger-than IE bloat and very slow startup speed.
This isn't intentional. Try this...
Make an HTML page with the following:
This will give you that nice blue screen in either browser. Somehow 'mozilla' is translated to blue. You can stumble up colors by throwing anything into the bgcolor= tag. I got a strange color from bgcolor="donkey".
Re:How does Konqueror compare to Netscape 6 ?
by
Moritz+Moeller+-+Her
·
· Score: 1
Yes it does. You can even switch it off:-)
--
Moritz
Re:Internut Exploder vs. Nutscrape Nab-a-gator!
by
RayChuang
·
· Score: 2
I hope you better run fast from the anti-IE crowd here.:)
Personally, the biggest problem with Netscape 6 is that the interface leaves a bit to be desired in terms of ease of use; one nice thing about Internet Explorer is that Microsoft has bothered to use its excellent Usability Lab to give the interface a very good "polish" for ease of operation.
100% compliance is very hard, when you also want 100% compatibility with buggy web pages.
I can, without a second thought, say I do not want this. If it is buggy, fix it. IE made the web world lazy by doing so.
-bZj
-- .sig
Re:First impressions, CSS conmpliance and SSL prob
by
havardw
·
· Score: 1
Netscape 6 has better CSS support that any other browser, but most sites are designed to work around the horrendous CSS support in Netscape 4.x (and the not-quite-good CSS support in IE)
"Imported IE Favorites" is a voodoo link to the voodoo Windows folder where IE bookmarks are stored. It's not really 'imported', it dyanically reads the IE bookmarks. --
The
Mozilla RPMs provided by Chris Blizzard (http://people.redhat.com/blizzard/so ftw are/)
work fine together with the Galeon RPMs downloadable from Sourceforge. It's three RPMs you
have to install (mozilla, mozilla-devel, and galeon)
Indeed. I already have Chris' mozilla and mozilla-devel RPMs installed.
I though it would be trivial to then add galeon, but that requires gnome-libs-1.2
(even the -rh6 RPM). A quick trip to rpmfind.net, and I find a newer gnome-libs in Rawhide,
but that in turn depends on glibc-2.2. Short of upgrading to RH7, it's just not worth the hassle.
This is with both galeon 0.7 and 0.8
-- "The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike." -- Delos B. McKown
Re:Wait for 6.1! Same goes for Mozilla
by
fredrik70
·
· Score: 1
Yeah, happens to me on Netscape for mac as well...
-- if (!signature) {
throw std::runtime_error("No sig!");
}
Re:THAT'S THE FUCKING LAST STRAW!!!
by
fredrik70
·
· Score: 1
Mandrake?? Wasn't he the guy who hypnotized all the dodgy geezers?
-- if (!signature) {
throw std::runtime_error("No sig!");
}
I don't believe ANY of those flamers here has ACTUALLY tried Netscape 6 FINAL!
I am testing it for 5 hours and it didn't crash.
I browsed over 100 sites, NONE appeared BAD
I don't have memory leak problems at all
So what the heck is the problem of you people??!?
Hmm so you are also one of the nutheads like me that saw that netscape uses less mem than IE
I agree, no joke
Re:Wait for 6.1! Same goes for Mozilla
by
Guy+Rixon
·
· Score: 1
I get the same problem with Netscrap for Solaris, first seen at ~v4.75 and still an occasional problem at v4.76. Sometimes the back and forward buttons stop working at the same time.
One sure-fire way to make it go wrong is to run out of disc quota while still having free space on the disc where the Netscrap cache is kept. Netscrap then corrupts the cache directory and can't go on from there. If you save a bookmark while you're out of quota it will trash your bookmark file too. I've no idea if the gecko-based browsers have this same bug.
Good side of it is :
- Language encoding always works.
( Sometimes, that of IE can't. For example, "Korean" disappears from the menu. )
- Fast
Bad side of it is :
- the widget is not Windows-native.
So, you can't change the font size of menus.
- The font size for menus are too small.
- The UI looks bulky.
I downloaded NS 6 for the Mac yesterday. Install went smoothly on my G4. I opted out of the AOL stuff using custom install. It irritates me that I have to opt out, but it's easy to do so.
Don't get me wrong; I love Opera. I've been a paid user of it for years, even paid for two different versions (including the current), but there are some real problems with it.
The two biggies are that it craps out completely frequently, at least on my systems, and it has rendering and JavaScript parsing errors. I brought the JavaScript errors to their attention over a year ago and they still aren't fixed. Rob Malda and I discussed some of the rendering errors several years ago, before I was able to prove that they were on Opera, not Slashdot, and they've improved but it still has trouble on lots of pages. JavaScript works better on Netscape and perfectly on I.E., which is ironic considering I wrote it precisely to Netscape's standard.
You could make the claim that the crashes and rendering errors are due to standards being violated, but that doesn't help when the problems are with sites like CNN and AltaVista. Opera makes sacrifices I can't live with daily.
Compile your QT without exception support. That should fix your slowness problems.
Are you using 2.0Final or a prerelease? Try upgrading to 2.0Final if not.
Re:Internut Exploder vs. Nutscrape Nab-a-gator!
by
Dyolf+Knip
·
· Score: 1
Yes, I'm aware of that you can run IE (slow, buggy, weird) under Solaris, although I'm not familiar with licensing issues in that case.
A lot of people seem to think that IE, IS and other hideously-named MS products bundled with different MS Operating System are free.
Neither do I have to pay for IE for the Mac or Solaris. Win 3.1 does not come bundled with IE 5, yet I can still go and get it from them for free. Just how much _less_ should software cost for you to call it free?
You are saying that any software that requires an operating system I have to pay for is not free, no matter what I _didn't_ have to pay for it. There's no such thing as free/shareware for MS OS's? Could have fooled me...
--
-- Dyolf Knip
Not bad, but definitely needs work
by
Pauley_24
·
· Score: 1
Overall, I think it's pretty good... there are some issues that need work, though.
In some cases, it has issues with some tables -- MSNBC.com's front page looks rather messed up. In another area, I tried heading to Uproar.com to play some games, but was told by the site that my "out-of-date" browser didn't have enough JavaScript support to cut the mustard.
Seeing that both tables and JavaScript are vital to the web as we know it today, these are issues that NEED to be addressed. I wonder exactly how soon 6.1 will be out?
And, its a good thing I installed it on my work machine instead of my home machine. I don't want to bother messing up my home system with it now.
First things:
It doesn't get along with Neoplanet...which I like having around because it starts quicker from the tray, and for those IE only websites. Otherwise, I use Netscape...especially for reading newsgroups.
Trying to launch the executable (as at the end of the setup, from the shortcut, or directly from the install directory) causes it to trigger Neoplanet). Netscape is the default browser on my machine.
Next the activiation crashed the first time, and later I couldn't use the buddy list. It offered me the same ID as my Netcenter ID....but I don't know what password it set, its not the same as my Netcenter ID. But, I deduced that its the same as AIM/CSIM, so I used my old CSIM id.
I tried installing a theme, this resulted in dialogs without okay/cancel buttons and missing navigation buttons. Fortunately the default action was 'accept' for switching back to the default theme....
Got a bunch of "unknown alert" messages while browsing through the preferences. And, the bottoms of some of the preference screens are chopped.
And, the newsgroups support is horrible. Looks like they changed the keys for navigating messages like then did between 3.x and 4.x Other glitz means you see less of the actually messages now. And, its slower....
Good thing it didn't replace 4.x....I've gone back to using 4.76. I wonder if I would ever want to upgrade to 6.x
I hope Netscape/AOL gets it together though....I work for a commercial (web-based) software company and we used to say "well it works with Netscape", when people had trouble using IE. Now, in some cases, its the otherway around....
--
You may be a dreamer, but I'm The Dreamer, the definite article you might say!
You mean like the Microsoft IE installers? Those let you download the components you want and even store them for later use (unlike a few others, like Quicktime). One benefit of the small downloader is that you don't have to download EVERYTHING and then only install a few parts. That was one thing I hated about the NS Communicator packages. It also made it harder to upgrade.
I won't be using NS6 until (1) the bugs are mostly out (2) its mozilla and (3) I can get rid of the sidebar, integrated IM and other add-ons i don't need. I just want a simple browser.
Hahah, the author of that article must have hit the pipe a few too many times before writing that article. Quoth he:
Netscape does not own Mozilla, and if for some reason AOL cut the financial umbilical cord, Mozilla would continue to operate without the slightest of hiccups.
Ehehahahahehehahah
If Netscape cut funding for the Mozilla project, Mozilla would lose:
Dozens of its most active developers
the web site
the cvs server
the bug tracking system
the automatic build farm
a large collection of testcases and specs that live on hosts inside the Netscape firewall
many other important resources
If Netscape killed Mozilla funding, that would be a very serious blow which Mozilla might not survive.
Re:40mb download? Get lost
by
JurriAlt137n
·
· Score: 3
How in gods name can a browser be 40megs?? Thats the size of a small OS!
How old are you exactly? That's the size of a big OS...
--
People replying to my sig annoy me. That's why I change it all the time.
Seems to me that they've rushed it to "market" a bit (good ol' AOL eh?)
I would have liked it to be a lot tighter than it is, I downloaded it this morning (UK time), and got pretty decent transfer rates off linuxftp.netscape.com, might not be so speedy now. Having installed it however, things were not quite so quick. It seems to render the chrome a damn sight slower than Mozilla nightly does, ditto displaying even relatively simple pages off local servers, and ps afx resulted in netscape spawned processes more than filling my Eterm! On the whole, using it was painfully slow (on a 500Mhz - 501 according to/proc/cpuinfo - CPU with 128Mb physical RAM)
In spite of all this, being the generous BOFH that I am, I made it available to the rest of my office, and one of our sales guys loves it because "it's blue, not grey!" and maybe this will prove to be it's saving grace... Non-techies will love it simply because it's pretty "ooh, I can skin it!"
I, on the other hand, have already returned to the safe territory of Galeon with libgtkembedmoz.so from the latest nightly.
though decisions for netscape
by
Cmdr.+Marille
·
· Score: 2
While many might blame netscape for releasing a browser that for many(including me) doesn't feel the way a finished and competitable product should feel.
But Then again it was about time, Netscape was getting into serious timing troubles with netscape 6. MS is about to realease a beta of it's "Version 6" Browser and Netscape had to act.
What is a bit sad tough is that Netscape maybe released it just a little bit too early.
Why? Because M19(the next Mozilla Milestone) is labeled "stability and speed improvements" in mozilla.org's seamonkey milestone plan(yes i know there is a second plan which describes the mozilla and ns trunks more exactly)
Still, maybe waiting another month may have lead to a much more improved product.
On the other side in one month netscape's market share may very well be nonexistend(at least on windows, which sadly is the criterium)
Maybe this was the right move by netscape. Maybe a inperfect final release was better then another month of delay.
Whatever happens to netscape, I'm going to keep downloading mozilla nightlies while still watching other browsers such as konqueror
--
"Mommy, mommy! The garbage man is here!" "Well, tell him we don't want any!"
-- Groucho Marx
Anybody know when they'll release one for Solaris? Or are they leaving that to Mozilla?
Re:what about other OSes?
by
LinuxNazi
·
· Score: 1
The Linux mafia payed Netscape's Unix porting department a visit and 'persuaded' them not to port any more software to any 'nixs other than Linux.
When software is made available to other platforms, it makes it easier for users to be able to have a choice in their operation system, and we just can't have that. After all, you shouldn't be using anything that isn't Linux anyway. We all know that Linux is the perfect OS. Why would you want to run anything less than perfection? Especially Solaris. Don't you know that Solaris users are unwelcome here on Slashdot? This is "[Linux] news for [Linux users], stuff that matters [to Linux users]."
Sieg Heil! Heil Linux!
Win32 is speedy, but..
by
PacketMaster
·
· Score: 5
I got the full version early this morning from Netscape w/o any download lag at all. But I'm sure that's different now.
Things Different:
1) Load time is VERY fast.
2) Page rendering is on par with IE5.5
3) Most sites display correctly
Things the Same:
1) BIG FREAKING MEMORY LEAK!!I'm running Net6 on Windows 2000. Ever page I load increases Netscape's memory footprint by approximately 1.5 Mb. I let Yahoo's random page URL keep loading files and I ramped the memory usage up to about 85 Mb before I quit. Closing Netscape and reloading drop the footprint back to 4 Mb, which on first inspection is nice. However it quickly ramps up fast. Even entering data in this form box is increasing the ram count about 4K every 20 characters or so. Netscape 6 definitely should not have been released yet. This is sad and pathetic for the once innovative and powerful Netscape.
--
Some people take their.sig way too seriously
Re:Win32 is speedy, but..
by
[Xorian]
·
· Score: 2
BIG FREAKING MEMORY LEAK!!
I really don't understand why people put up with this kind of thing when there are perfectly good C/C++ garbage collectors out there. If you know you've got a memory leak, and you just can't fix it, it's downright criminal to ship a product without garbage collection.
Re:Win32 is speedy, but..
by
Forkenhoppen
·
· Score: 2
I had a similar problem with a build of Mozilla a few weeks ago. However, my problem appeared to a tad worse; I was running it under Windows 98, and for some reason it wasn't releasing the leaked memory even after closing down Mozilla.
I sure hope there isn't a similar problem with Netscape 6, or else things could get ugly.
Re:Win32 is speedy, but..
by
NineNine
·
· Score: 1
That's a Win 98 specific problem. Any of the DOS-based Windows will do that.
Whats funny is that Mozilla is listed as a known user of this garbage collector, I guess that means they found the leaks but didn't fix them...
Re:Win32 is speedy, but..
by
kevinank
·
· Score: 1
Garbage collectors don't fix memory leaks, they
fix invalid references to already freed memory
by converting them into dangling references (in
other words memory leaks.)
If you've taken enough time to think about when
your objects need to be destroyed then you are
unlikely to forget to free() your memory (rather
more likely you will free() before you should.)
If you
haven't had that think then garbage collection
really just takes a simple to diagnose problem
and turns it into a really hard to diagnose problem.
-- LibBT: BitTorrent for C - small - fast - clean (Now Versio
I can't say how many times I have had problems with IE handling things properly. Firstly fonts are crippled and have only vague descriptions about their relative size. The Java handling is poor (try to use something like hushmail sometime and you get the idea). Their implimentation of SSL really stinks too with connection drops in the middle of SSL and so on (check sourceforge's page for some examples).
According to CNET, IE5.5 is twice as fast as Gecko. We are not talking about a 20% difference...
What is stunning also is that CNET claims Java under Netscape 6.0 is also much slower... which is really missing the point. Netscape 6.0 supports a plugable JVM (OJI)! Which means you have JDK1.3 support right now and better later whereas IE only supports the MS JVM which, as we know, is now frozen in time.
When it comes to Java, Netscape is technologically way ahead. It is miles and miles ahead.
(Same for Mozilla, of course.)
Actually most browsers know have a plugable Java JVM mechanism... except for IE which bundles its own JVMs. That's quite a weakness of IE.
I agree. I think that the Gartner Group just did a study that showed that almost 90% of IE users were willing to use another browser if it only had a plugable JVM.
--
There is no longer anything that can be done with computers that is nontrivial and clearly legal. -- Paul Phillips
I'll bet you that 90% of IE users don't know what the term "plugable JVM" means. Could you provide a link to your rather wild claims?
Not a flame, just curious.
-- Information doesn't want to be anthropomorphized.
-AC
The Sun JDK/JRE 1.3 includes a plug-in for IE 5.0+. A page has to use different syntax to get it by default (using <EMBED> instead of <APPLET>), but it works. I went and looked at the Java 2D API demo applet from within IE a few weeks ago.
The MS JVM is required to use the Microsoft "extensions" to Java (read: ActiveX), but it will (probably) never support any of the Java2 feature set, so it's a good thing, I guess, that Sun's got an alternative out there!
I don't think tags will make up for an extreme ineptitude at recognizing sarcasm. Similarly, large arrows on a ballot don't make up for the stupidity of the user.
-- The best way to accelerate a windows box is at 9.8 meters per second square.
I downloaded and installed it on NT this morning. It hasn't crashed and has been working fine on the sites I visit. It does seem to be more polished than past releases and mozilla releases. Memory useage is high, but it does seem to level off around 40 meg (with java plugin and java2 applets loaded). They needed to get something released. Things will only improve from here with mozilla and furture releases.
go straight to the ftp servers
by
entropi
·
· Score: 1
i tend to have much better luck getting it if i go straight for the ftp servers...ftp.netscape.com, ftp2.netscape.com, etc until i find a fast one.
it's in/pub/netscape6/english/6.0/ (for english speakers);
choose your platform, then go to the sea/ subdirectory. (Self Extracting Archive?).
Re:go straight to the ftp servers
by
buttfucker2000
·
· Score: 1
I ain't bothered downloading it and I won't until I hear better comments, I'll stick with M18 for the time being.
Why the h*ll they still insist on developing all that add on crap themselves, I really don't know. That's what really yanks-my-chain about the Mozilla project. Instead of just concentrating on developing a BROWSER, they have to (1) Waste time developing add on junk (2) bundle a load of garbage which no one will use. What's so difficult about "coming to an agreement" with a third party developer to bundle their product (Chat/News/E-Mail whatever) with Mozilla?
Had they taken that approach, we *might* have a decent browser by now.
Yeah, that's what we need is another armchair critic.
If you're so upset about something in Mozilla, how about contributing something to the project rather than whining how Netscape who invested hundreds of millions of dollars into Mozilla are sticking some extra features into the commercial version.
If you'd spent even ten minutes in the newsgroups you'd see that there 20-30 Netscape engineers (not to mention all the QA, testers, managers & administrative staff supporting them) who work full time on Mozilla and this is the thanks they get.
Believe me when I say that I have looked at the source, but quickly lost interest through the sheer size of the code base.
No they don't owe me Jack, but I like many others would have been much happier had they concentrated their efforts *first* on the browser, then afterwards concentrated on the "other stuff".
Why you getting such a hard-on about my comments anyway? You in the mozilla team?
Re:My Favorite Bug Of them all
by
icepick
·
· Score: 1
http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20847
It goes on for pages. There is a patch, tho it's not in the nightlys. Just plain screwy --
--
You're just jealous because the voices only talk to me.
about:mozilla no longer works. It brings up the Book of Mozilla, but the N doesn't change into a fire-breathing Mozilla anymore! IMHO, this is the most disappointing aspect of NS6.
Netscape 6 badly broken on Mac
by
Raffaello
·
· Score: 1
FWIW, this puppy is badly broken on the mac (MacOS 9.0.4). For example, when you select the "Customize Sidebar" option, it lets you add things to your sidebar list, but when you click on "OK" nothing happens - the customization window doesn't close, the sidebar isn't changed. Hitting Cmd-W doesn't work either. The only option is to hit "Cancel," which, of course leaves your sidebar un-customized.
Added to this rather major annoyance (you have no quick access to top bookmarks if you cant customize the sidebar) Netscape 6 takes over 25 seconds to launch on a 300 MHz G3, which, though not Apple's fastest, is certainly a mainstream machine. By comparison, IE 5 takes less than 10 seconds to launch and load a home page on the same machine.
This is really a beta release, and should have been presented as such. Thank god I have a cable modem, so I didn't waste too much time downloading the installer.
Re:Netscape 6 badly broken on Mac
by
J'raxis
·
· Score: 1
I've noticed this same buggy behavior in the Mozilla releases for Windows, actually - after setting numerous preferences I can't OK the dialog box and have it apply the changes.
Re:Netscape 6 badly broken on Mac
by
blamanj
·
· Score: 1
OTOH, this is the best release so far. For the first time, I'm able to run more than one Java applet without crashing, and it seems relatively fast.
It is, however, a complete memory pig, taking 32M to do what Explorer does in 16M.
Re:Netscape 6 badly broken on Mac
by
reimero
·
· Score: 1
I'm running 6 on my older 8600/300 with 9.0.4. It did take a little tweaking to get it to my liking and I still have a few plugin issues to take care of, but overall it's been fast and stable. I will definitely need more time before I can render final judgement, however. One final note: upon initial installation, java didn't work for me. When I downloaded and installed the latest MRJ, it ran beautifully and tackled java apps that 4.7 couldn't.
--
----------
Something clever
Re:Netscape 6 badly broken on Mac
by
Snap+E+Tom
·
· Score: 1
I'm having the same sort of problem on my Yosemite G3/350 with System 8.6. I've noticed it happens with anything that's beyond a simple preference change - bookmarks, themes, and Sidebar, to be exact. Clicking OK sometimes works, sometimes doesn't. However, regardless, the change doesn't take place unless I quit/relaunch. Even if OK doesn't dismiss the dialog box, I can quit, and when i relaunch, the change will take place.
Launch time for me is 14 seconds. This is an increase over 4.76, which takes 11.
It's a shame. I really like the new user features.
Re:Netscape 6 badly broken on Mac
by
alister
·
· Score: 1
Now, I know I'm not the only one to get this - I can not display any web pages on my Mac - G4/400/192MB/9.0.4.
Anyone else had this problem, and managed to resolve it?
1) I just downloaded the Linux version. The installer is pretty slick and I got high transfer rates, but unfortunately I had to do it 6 times before it would actually complete the install without hanging.
2) Upon installing it insists that you register for their Netcenter website and the fonts where it asks you if you'd like spam along with your registration are so small that they're barely legible. Suggestion: Just click the link says "I'm under 13 years old" to get around the mandatory registration.
3) So far this version shows no improvement over the nightly snapshots I've been downloading from Mozilla's site. Suggestion: Download a recent nightly build from mozilla.org instead if you really insist on upgrading.
That's because the page is full of HTML errors. The biggest error is not having </a> tags to close out the links! Also, it declares itself as an HTML 3.2 doctype, though it uses things like FRAMESET which are only part of the HTML 4.0 spec.
Granted, a good web browser (see ICab) should do its best to render the page anyway, but there's only so far that programmers can go to get around bad HTML programming.
I decided to download Mozilla M18 instead of Netscape 6 because I don't want all of the AOL applets shoved down my throat. I'm using M18 to post this message. It's still pretty buggy. (After I had spent some time configuring the preferences to my liking I clicked the OK button, but nothing happened so I lost all my settings when I closed the window) I had intended to wait until Mozilla 1.0 to try it, but since the code is good enough for Netscape 6.0 I decided to give it a try. I guess I'll keep using it for a while...
> Funny thing - whenever I go to my inbox @ hotmail.com a little MSN icon appears on my toolbar
> (right next to that scary little Java icon character). What the hell is going on here?
I'm curious - if you click the button does it take you to MSN.com? If not, what does it do?
I've been an IE user for a while now mainly because Netscape has been losing the feature war. While I'm certainly not a Microsoft fan, I like Netscape and I like standards conformance (which Netscape has typically been better at), I use a browser a lot and I want to use what makes me feel most comfortable and lets me work the best.
With all that in mind, I was excited to see that N6 was out because I've liked the Mozilla and preview release builds, except that they were buggy and seemingly incomplete.
I like a lot of things in Netscape 6. The Gecko engine is great. It renders pages pretty fast, which is good. The "Modern" skin is pretty cool. Is it a good idea... well, that's another issue, but it's cool. There are a lot of features that I like in IE that weren't in Netscape 4.6.whenever-I-stopped-really-using-it like some of the sidebar stuff and the toolbar. (Yes, I know the toolbar has been in 4.7 or so for a long time, but it took them a long time to get it there!)
Here's the bottom line of my impressions with N6: it's all in the little things!!!
There are two things that are ticking me off enough to possibly send me back to IE. First, arranging the bookmarks. This should be easy: I have imported "toolbar favorites" from IE, I want them to be in my N6 toolbar. I'm a pretty smart guy and I have no idea how to do this. Drag-an-drop isn't supported, so I can't move them. Cut and paste are supported (even though "cut" is enabled in the edit menu. There's a menu command "Set as Personal Toolbar Menu"... which apparently does nothing! I know it's stupid, but these are the things that make me choose IE, not the engine. (Well, I shouldn't say that. If the engine was unacceptable it would influence me. But, being a typical web user, most engines I find are "acceptable", so it's not typically a factor.)
Second big annoyance, I now have five icons on my desktop (I'm using Win2000): Netscape (I wanted this one), "Free AOL Unlimited INternet" (fine, AOL owns Netscape... I'll bear it), "Net2Phone" (quit installing this!), "RealPlayer Basic" (I already had it), "Take5" (See previous, I hate this thing).
Goal for Netscape: Don't tick off you customers by installing worthless things. It may convince some people, but I think it angers more.
Another goal: Do less, do it well. I frankly, don't care about skins. If I did, I would use WindowBlinds. But I do care about being able to set up my "toolbar favorites".
I'm going to continue trying N6, because I like Mozilla and believe it can turn out good products, but I really hope the quality improves.
--
"Let your heart soar as high as it will. Refuse to be average." - A. W. Tozer
For arranging the bookmarks, look at the "Manage Bookmarks" item at the top of the bookmarks menu. For adding things to the toolbar, use "Manage Bookmarks" and move or copy the appropriate items into the "Personal Toolbar" folder. For the icons, every windows program tends to add those. Drag 'em to the wastebasket and get rid of them if they bother you. Sorry, but I find every Windows product leaves cruft on my desktop I need to clean off, so Netscape doesn't bother me any more than any other one.
I've been an IE user for a while now mainly because Netscape has been losing the feature war. While I'm certainly not a Microsoft fan, I like Netscape and I like standards conformance (which Netscape has typically been better at)...
Ummm...both IE and Netscape suck at being standards compliant.
The only browser that is fully standards compliant (as far as HTML is concerned) is Opera, which is designed from the ground up around standards compliancy.
Yes, yes, I know the Mozilla people say the same thing, but I'm not sure how standards compliant they are. Maybe I'll test it against one of the W3C tests or something...
I've been an IE user for a while now mainly because Netscape has been losing the feature war.
While I'm certainly not a Microsoft fan, I like Netscape and I like standards conformance (which
Netscape has typically been better at), I use a browser a lot and I want to use what makes me feel
most comfortable and lets me work the best.
Netscape is terrible at standards conformance, compared to IE, especially when it comes to Javascript. Check out the browser test for the JetTrade screen at online broker RJT.com. IE4 and IE5 pass with flying colors (even the Solaris versions). Netscape 4.73 Solaris fails the tests. I don't run Netscape on Windows (what's the point), but I imagine its just as bad.
That's odd, I just tried it and top-level folders drag-n-drop just fine. Left-click on the folder icon to the left of the name, drag where I want it, release, it's there. Are you sure you aren't using PR3?
I was in the "Manage Bookmarks" section. I did finally get it to work, but here's the thing: you can't drag the top-level folder ("Imported IE Favorites"), but you can drag lower folders. But, this is what I'm talking about... the user (me) doesn't care which is a top-level folder and which isn't. If I try to drag a folder, dang it, drag the folder.
--
"Let your heart soar as high as it will. Refuse to be average." - A. W. Tozer
Mozilla (and hence Netscape 6) are more standards compliant than Opera according to many test suites. This link was posted above:
http://www.people.fas.harvard.edu/~dbaron/css/te st/results
After trying out Netscape 6, I have to say this: WHY BOTHER.
I have a long litany of complaints:
1. Downloading the program is DOG slow. Even on a fast broadband connection waiting for the components to download is like trying to pour molasses in winter.
2. Starting the program takes a LONG time. The load speed is like 1/3 that of Internet Explorer 5.5 Service Pack 1.
3. The unintuitive interface drives me nuts! You can tell that Microsoft has put its investment in its Usability Lab very wisely with the "polished" feel of IE 5.5 SP1.
4. The Messenger module for email and newsgroup access is still inferior to Outlook Express 5.5 in terms of easy of setup and usability.
In short, if this is what "open source" development can do, Netscape is rapidly going to be a has-been.
Dunno about NS6, but when I last installed NS4.7 I choose custom installation, and it didn't even leave me the choice not to install AIM. I got what I wanted, plus AIM, which obviously wasn't optional at all. Ugh.
-
--
-
Listen. Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government.
In short, if this is what "open source" development can do, Netscape is rapidly going to be a has-been.
Linux and Apache (and numerous others) are examples of what Open Source development can do. Netscape 6.0 is an example of what a marketing driven design results in. It seems to me that most of gross stupidity in Mozilla is the result of decisions made by Netscape's marketing department.
How about comparisons to Navigator 4.7x?
by
RichiP
·
· Score: 2
I've been reading a lot of comments comparing NS6 to current Mozilla... and of course current Mozilla works heaps better!
Netscape may have jumped the gun, but would someone who uses NS4.7x care to make a comparison of the two browsers (and mail readers)? I remember it was the same people here who had been asking Netscape to pull out and stop supporting NS4.7x. Now that NS6 is out, why don't you compare that with the old browser and tell us whether it's an improvement or not and how is it an improvement, if ever???
In the installer, the little "Activation" window popped up that wanted my name, e-mail address and ZIP code. I couldn't think of any good reason to give these things to them, but I thought I'd read the privacy policy and see what their intentions were.
The link to the privacy policy didn't work. In fact, none of the little links did a bloody thing. Two problems: a) No privacy policy is a bad thing. b) Links don't work? Call me demanding, but I enjoy a good A tag every now and again.
Obviously, they didn't get any personal information.
Now I've got "Please wait..." written in the middle of a 400x400 window that's been hanging out there for the past 5 minutes. Looks like 6.0 is a dud.
I'll be sticking with Konqueror aswell. Its rendering is just as good as Netscape6 (IMO), and it's nowhere near as bloated. BTW, you can turn off URL completion by right-clicking the location bar and selecting None from the Completion submenu.
No, this is not a warez advert.
I found this while searching the FTP server for a full download because I cannot use the net to download an installer which will in turn download other components.
Anything less than 100% shouldn't be tolerated when it comes to standards support; that's what standards are all about. I don't care if it's 99% compliant; IE5.5/Windows is supposedly 99% compliant too. That's not good enough when 100% is possible. ----------
From all the complaints I'm reading, I guess I'll just have to stick with Konqueror, which has been working perfectly for me so far. Only feature I don't like in Konqueror is the auto-completion of URL's you've visited when you type a URL in the location bar.
Maybe it was me but I wanted netscape to install on D drive but it insisted on trying to install on E drive and no matter if I changed the drive and path it just stayed stuborn. My E drive did not have enouph space and I kept getting this stupid message about how I can't install on E. I KNOW THAT which is why I CHOSE a different path to install on! If it still has stupid bugs like this- it really should have spent much more time in testing. Also btw, when I want to download a program, I don't just want the installer that will download the program: I want the whole thing! So I am just going to ignore netscape for awhile. Just as a note I use windows NT only at work and linux at home. Which means that yes I could mess things around to get it to work but since I am at work I am definately not going to bother.
Does anyone else think it is odd that a commercial browser is 'release' quality when they take a slightly buggy beta release from an open-source project, add a bunch more much, much buggier features and then pop it out the door?
I'll probably have ESR scratching my name on a bullet for saying this, but I think the Mozilla/AOL combination illustrates some of the natural incompatabilities between commercial marketing-department-driven software and open-source developer-has-an-itch-to-scratch-driven software.
I keep up to date with the Mozilla code on Linux and I don't see any sort of AOL crap. That tells me that for this product, the poor developers branched their code and started adding all that AOL fluff. As far as most of us are concerned, that effort would have been better used fixing bugs on that branch.
I hope this product stays alive; I'd really like to see it survive. I just hope the marketing doesn't get in the way of stability.
It's still there (in fact, if you previously disabled them, it will stay disabled and you won't be able to turn it on). It just got removed from the GUI.
Delete/edit all/some the -ns.js (e.g., prefs-ns.js) and you'll get it back to mozillaness.
Mozilla has worked with Java for a long time. just download the latest runtime enviroment. the copy npjava12.dll npjava11.dll and npjava.dll into the bin\plugins directory for mozilla (that's if your using windows)
It diplays correctly cause the pages were written for IE. IE does not display pages written for NS correctly... -- "No se rinde el gallo rojo, sólo cuando ya está muerto."
i used this policy when looking for a wife... didn't go so well.. met one girl who was 99%.. and I called her mediocre.:)
seriously, the standards are constantly evolving, changing. 100% is simply not always the best idea, especially when it comes to parts that haven't settled yet. and do you personally USE every feature in the dom? i doubt it. enough has been implemented, that its going to make moving over dhtml and any other complex bits easy and quick...
No Digitally-Signed E-mail?
by
TrueJim
·
· Score: 1
Running on a G4 Mac, I opened 6.0 as the "default" user, the Personal Security Manager appeared fine, but of course not showing my VeriSign certificate since that's in my real user profile. So I quit, then restarted as me, and the Personal Security Manager (apparently) hangs! Just a blank window, contents never rendered.
Out of curiosity, fired up a new mail message and looked to see where I would digitally sign the message -- that option seems to have been removed in 6.0, as I was afraid it might be.
So, for me, version 6.0 has fewer (useful) features than 4.7.
-- I hope that after I die the one word people use to describe me is "resurrected."
I'm a bit disturbed by my side bar in NS6 they only way to customize it seems to be to go through the NS Web site, will NS end up being hard wired to AOL? For me that will back fire, I might leave some of their tabs there if I can build some of my own, but I'll leave the window closed if I can't add my own content to it.
Anyone know how to hack the my sidebar to load off a custom url, or do I have to build it from scratch using xul?
First impressions:
Yeah, all the bugs aren't fixed
True, but I wasn't expecting them to be. That said, it's actually usable as an everyday browser (which is more than can be said for M18). The main problem with it, though, is that it's slow. Sure, it's much faster than M18, and in normal use, it's fine, but try scrolling down in long document or switching to another virtual desktop for a while, and then switching back. NN4 is significantly faster in both cases.
It also still renders Slashdot's spacer images in the titles of articles with a greenish line around them, so they look like little green squares.
The Linux version doesn't seem to have that bug for me...
Why oh why do they need to do these damn small install files that go out on the 'Net and get everything?
They don't! The installer lets you choose which components it will download. Worked for me, and I didn't get the news, mail, IM or the other useless bits. I would be using Galeon, but until they either provide a complete self-contained RPM or make it an easy compile, I can't be bothered.
I still don't want an installer, though. I want a full install program. Net access from home isn't cheap here in Europe. I want to be able to download the whole thing at work, burn it to CD and take it home. Sigh.
-- "The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike." -- Delos B. McKown
There are several bugs in Netscape 6 that webmasters will have to work around for a while, just like they have to work around Netscape 4, IE4, and IE5 bugs now. So while it's great that Netscape 6 does a better job at adhering to standards than IE5 does, that alone doesn't justify releasing a product that isn't free of bugs.
On the other hand, I think Netscape had good judgement as to the timing. I don't think waiting another month after branch point would have eliminated all of the nasty bugs, but I think it would have set back the development of the Mozilla trunk and hence NS 6.1+ several weeks. I'm glad the weeks of rtm triage spam and "I can't believe you're not going to fix this for NS 6.0" flamewars are over for now. (Waiting another month before the branch point probably wouldn't have helped much either, because new bugs would have been introduced during that extra month.)
I'm not saying that waiting another month wouldn't have reduced the number of bugs, just that it wouldn't have helped as much as it might seem it would have. And NS did need to get a new browser out the door with NS 4.76 rotting and with IE gaining more and more marketshare.
> One benefit of the small downloader is that you
> don't have to download EVERYTHING and then only
> install a few parts.
That is exactly what the NS6 installer provides: it downloads only the components you need. The original poster is complaining that it downloads them separately instead of all at once.
> won't be using NS6 until (1) the bugs are mostly
> out (2) its mozilla and (3) I can get rid of the
> sidebar, integrated IM and other add-ons i don't
> need.
So use Mozilla.
Netscape Themes vs. Mozilla Themes
by
GeekLife.com
·
· Score: 2
Why will Netscape not let me import their themes into my nightly build of Mozilla? Is this a technical issue, or a marketing one?
And, if a marketing one, anyone know a workaround to get some of those Netscape themes into my Mozilla? -----
Re:Netscape Themes vs. Mozilla Themes
by
buttfucker2000
·
· Score: 1
1. Technical. Skins from a particular Mozilla milestones won't work with newer/older milestones either.
2. Edit them by hand (it's a zipped file that jar), or download some Mozilla themese.
-- Free Anne Tomlinson!!
Re:Netscape Themes vs. Mozilla Themes
by
sab39
·
· Score: 1
First, get a recent nightly. The install process used by the NS6 skins was not completely supported in M18, I believe.
Second, save the install page to disk, and hack the javascript client sniffer to remove the check for Netscape (and change the filenames to absolute if they are relative).
Third, browse to your local copy of the install page and click the links there.
I don't know anyone who has actually done this, but this was the suggestion I saw posted in a mozilla newsgroup.
Stuart.
Re:Netscape Themes vs. Mozilla Themes
by
nathana
·
· Score: 1
I did this, and it works fine with the latest nightly on Linux.
Fast on win32, slow on linux
by
Magnus+Pym
·
· Score: 1
I tried ns 6.0 final on both linux 2.2 and
win2000 on the same hardware. The win32 version
is much faster than netscape 4.7x and perfectly
stable. I have not had any issues with it.
It renders all the sites that I visit perfectly.
The linux version, however, is terribly slow,
and very buggy. Crashes abound. I think they
forgot to turn the debugging off, because it keeps
writing tons of text to the console where it has
been launched from.
Magnus
Re:Fast on win32, slow on linux
by
ghazban
·
· Score: 2
I found it quite stable and fast. Maybe you didn't remove your.mozilla (or.netscape depending on which is used.. I haven't investigated)
I went to the Netscape download site, and in the unix directory I only found a binary for an OS which is not even unix (linux22). Any chance the FreeBSD binary will appear soon ?
-- --
unix is for people without a social life - Patrick van Eijk
Re:Internut Exploder vs. Nutscrape Nab-a-gator!
by
Pope
·
· Score: 2
(IE opens the source in Notepad; Netscape just shows it to you) Since when do we all run windows? I'd rather be able to copy/past the source into ANY editor I want, not what MS tells me to (which I don't have to deal with anyways, cuz I don't run windez)
Pope
Freedom is Slavery! Ignorance is Strength! Monopolies offer Choice!
-- It doesn't mean much now, it's built for the future.
Who would use this trash, everything you click on in the UI is selling you something or asking you to register for something (not to mention you need to sign up with netscape just to use the browser)
Netscape 6 get my mega-lame seal of dissaproval.
Actually, needing "another month" to fix the most glaring bugs is not "true for every project". What is true for every project is the appearance that another month would be enough to fix all the bugs. Brooks (of the Mythical Man Month) called this the 90% problem. In reality, it takes approximately as long in calendar months (not programmer months) to do the last 10% of a project as it does to do the first 90%. When you take into account that the "fantasy factor" (the multiple of the actual versus predicted time to finish a project) is probably 2x or 3x, it can take a really long time to do the last 10%. I'm willing to bet it will take six months or more to get a dot release of Netscape 6 out the door with most of the outstanding defects fixed.
Walt
Wow! It crashes faster than ever!
by
rocketjesus
·
· Score: 1
I just installed the Mac version, (download was very fast, either nobody is downloading or they've got serious hardware spewing it out) and it crashed instantly. Giving the program more memory meant it crashed with a different error.
This is sad, I was defending them the other day, saying that their release schedule made sense. Of course, I assumed that their insistance on not adding any new code was because they were busy fixing current bugs, but apparently I was wrong.
Mozilla hasn't been bad, once someone pointed out the Debug->Install PSM option to get SSL.
Just because it's done doesn't mean I like it any better. They went the wrong direction. Instead of trying to make it look all purty, they should have made it more stable.
It is still one of the three things that crashes my Win2000 box (*sigh*, Sorry, but I haven't had the time to move up to Linux..) -- Netscape, IE, and Windows itself.
Re:Mozilla and Secure Transactions
by
DeadSea
·
· Score: 3
Word of warning. Before you try this, make sure that the directory that Mozilla is installed in is writable by mozilla. After you install the psm you will have to keep the directory writeable due to a bug. If you don't mozilla will crash each time you visit a secure site.
HAs anybody tried KDE2's Konqerer (spelling?). I tried it and it's way better than IE or NS6 (or mozilla). Everything I tried actually worked... and I never could get it to crash... there were a few wierd little things that bothered me about it, like clicking on a file d/l link didn't d/l the file, but tried to display it, but that doesn't seem like a software bug, it seems more like someone forgot to put that MIME type somewhere as d/l instead of display. Every time I've used Mozilla, it has just crashed...
> If Netscape killed Mozilla funding, that would be a very serious blow which Mozilla might not survive.
Sure. It'll die overnight and get forgotten, like linux, freebsd, gnome, KDE or debian.
NO. If netscape stopped funding, it'll loose developers. It would be pretty hard, but I highly doubt it would be fatal. (And I am sure that there are half a dozen highly succesfull companies out there that have a vested interest into fighting against IE and would found the Mozilla project almost instantly...)
I completely agree with you Mr. 11. However only wimps use lynx. Whats wrong with telnetting to port 80 and "GET/"? Afterall html is just text, and displaying it formatted is a corruption.
Re:Internut Exploder vs. Nutscrape Nab-a-gator!
by
AFCArchvile
·
· Score: 2
Oooohh, god forbid that it won't run in emacs or vim!
Please. Those two editors are the definition of bloatware. Notepad.exe is only 45KB, and it's a standalone program. How big is the entire Emacs package? At least 512KB, and probably more. Vim isn't much better.
-- "Ancillary does not mean you get to rule the world." --U.S. Circuit Judge Harry Edwards, speaking to the FCC's lawyer
The NS6 installer also lets you save the install files to disk. There is an option in the dialogs that says that precise thing. At least it is so on the Win32 version... not sure about the others.
I installed it on my Mac last night, and it seems to work fine, except for one problem: it doesn't display any web pages! When I point it to Slashdot, it displays the advertising banner and nothing else! Other sites that fail include netscape.com and mozillazine.org. Anyone else have this problem?
The minimal install of NS 6.0 is around the 8-10Mb mark, depending on the platform you're on. This gets you a fully functional, standards compliant browser. The other 25Mb or so is optional stuff like Realplayer, Java Runtime, Net2Phone, spell checker, mail/news etc. If you don't want that stuff then don't download it!
There are very few people today who couldn't have NS 6.0 downloaded and up and running on their PC within half an hour.
How does Konqueror compare to Netscape 6 ?
by
SpinyNorman
·
· Score: 2
The specs for Konqueror sound pretty complete and impressive, so I'd be interested to head from anyone who could give a comparison of Konqueror vs Netscape 6/Mozilla both in terms of features and performance/usability etc. I don't care about the mail/news stuff in Netscape - just how it compares as a browser.
Re:How does Konqueror compare to Netscape 6 ?
by
hack0rama
·
· Score: 1
I have used Mozilla Milestone18 and Konqueror for a while. I found Konqueror to be more stable
for browsing. Plus its beautifull as a file manager with Split Views, Directory Tree, and
a Terminal Emulator. So if you have a lot of
desktop real estate Konqueror with splitviews ( kinda emulates Opera ) and terminal emulator is all I need. Plus the split view can act as a side bar, where you can load any url you want. Dont have to mess with XUL/Javascript etc to create a side bar in Netscape6 ( also just saw a post saying you need to go to NS server to customise the side bar ).
There is no major complaints from me against Mozilla Milestone 18 loads fast and renders fast. May be the XUL generated GUI componenets does not quite gel with the native interface.
As for Netscape6: the installer just seg faulted for me:(
BTW-Konqueror needs some skins, I hated the default icons on it.
another $0.02
Re:How does Konqueror compare to Netscape 6 ?
by
Moritz+Moeller+-+Her
·
· Score: 1
I am using Konqueror 1.98 (KDE2) right here and now.
It is my default browser.
I have also always installed Mozilla nightly and Netscape 4.76.
(That is already a statement)
What do I like about Konqui: Fastest, speedy, best UI (not prettiest). Can browse almost everything, CSS1/2 support is excellent. Best filemanager, can browse Windows networks. Uses showckwave and realplayer plugins of netscape (without problems) Conforms to my desktop settings. Uses external apps and kparts, so the thing is skinny and modular. Good translations.
What will be improved:
The url completion is worse than IE. The bookmark manager is currently reworked, at the moment it is a hack. Java support is sketchy. Javascript is implemented only partially, but improving steadily. Some pages use FUCKED js to check if browser is IE or netscape and fail to let konqui see their HTML 3.02 pages.....
Why not Netscape 4.76: Terrible fonts, not scalable, no decent CSS support.Ugly. Motif. Slow.
Advantages: Works with many badly adapted pages having JS, best plugin support. Java flaky, but works.
Why not Mozilla nightlies: No https support and java in default install. Unstabler and slower than konqui. Does not follow Destop settings closely. No foreign languages in default install.
Advantages: Better if slower rendering on many pages. Good font support. Best Javascript of all browsers.
I use Konqui and if I hit a problem page, I can just right click and choose another browser in 2 seconds, that way I am not losing anything and have the fastest and most sensible browser around. I am looking fforward to the adaptiuon Corel is doing: Integrate Gecko into Konqueror, that way I would have all the advantages of Mozilla and of Konqui combined.....
Still Konqui is far better and usable than the alternatives at this moment, IMHO.
I do my online banking and amazon stuff with it.
--
Moritz
Re:How does Konqueror compare to Netscape 6 ?
by
drew
·
· Score: 1
i can't give a good comparison to ns6 or mozilla, because i haven't used either one much. one thing that ido like about konqueror compared to mozilla is that the right click popup menus actually work right. (i.e. you dont have to click-release, select your menu item, and then click-release again) regardless of any other improvements is enough to keep me from using mozilla. (anyone know if that ever got fixed? last i checked they had decided they weren't going to fix it anytime soon, even though it was there most requested bug and was originally scheduled to be fixed by M14)
first impression of konqueror. despitewhat anyone else may tell you, you realistically need to run kde for it to work well. if you're not running kde it's slow to start up, because it has to go through all of the kdeinit stuff that normally happens when you start you x session. it also seems to suffer a little in terms of stability, although that may be my imagination. and most annoyingly, if you try to use it with gnome, you will get error popups every few minutes because it won't acknowledge the session-manager. so, in this users opinion, its not worth it if you can't use kde as a whole.
i can't say much for javascript support, because i stopped writing it a long time ago, and i don't view pages that use it much. however, until i can get gnome working on my box again, i'll be stuck in kde, and i have taken to using konqueror asmy full-time browser, over netscape navigator 4.7. in comparison to ns47, im completely happy with it. it's at least as fast, and i have noticed zero problems that in rendering the sites i visit appropriately. it does however do the old ie trick of rendering the page as it downloads, so anytime you view a page with a lot of tables, you're likely to see alot of jittering around and reshuffling until the page is done.
in conclusion, i can't give a solid comparison to any recent mozilla, but konqeror is on par with or ahead of anything else i've used (including ie, i would say, although i dont use it much anymore either), so long as you can live with the limitations of the kde environment.
-- If I don't put anything here, will anyone recognize me anymore?
Re:How does Konqueror compare to Netscape 6 ?
by
fredlwm
·
· Score: 1
Does Konqueror support caching in memory? I remember that the file manager/browser shipped with KDE 1.X doesn't.
-- How to contact me - http://www.pervalidus.net/contact.html
Oh, and why is there an option to download a UK version, but the installation doesn't give you the option to install UK English (yep, I had to go with the US English pack). Is there really any difference, or is it just labelling on ftp server?
now this is gratuitously paranoid but....
by
dash2
·
· Score: 1
... the comments are so bad, and the usability bugs are so obvious, that this did come into my mind: what if AOL are worried about being tied to Netscape (I seem to remember they have some kind of agreement to distribute Netscape with their next product) - so they force Netscape to release too early and then have an excuse for sticking with safe old IE?
... No. Never attribute to conspiracy what cockup can explain. Still, I would recommend the Mozilla nightlies, even above M18, and way above Netscape 6 by the sound of it. Or Konqueror, which I am using now (just installed Mandrake 7.2:-), and which is stable as hell and full of cool features. And integrated with the desktop. Which is an advantage, dammit!
OK, found the problem (It's still me)
by
MarcoAtWork
·
· Score: 3
OK, I found the problem (at least in mozilla, I'll retry NS6 ASAP).
I have the proxy set up as 'autoconfigure' which is just a way that simplifies IS's life, since theoretically NS goes to the autoconfig URL, and gets the proxy settings, hosts not to proxy, etc. etc. etc.
Well, it turns out that this feature seems broken in Mozilla, in fact, if I remove the autoconfig, and specify the proxy server manually, everything works just fine. I will try this on NS6 as soon if it finishes downloading.
yep, that was it, now even NS6 works
-- --
the cake is a lie
Re:OK, found the problem (It's still me)
by
Number6.2
·
· Score: 3
This "problem" does not supprise me. The Fine Folks at Mozilla, while developing a damnfine browser, seem to be in denial about proxy servers: the proxy "feature" was fixed and broken about three times in the last six months (at least in Linux. YMMV).
Needless to say, Moz works like a champ now (thanks guys!). I guess most of these Netscape types don't have to live behind a firewall (it doesn't seem like they have to test through a firewall, either...)
Having said that, For God's sake, Moz/Netscape guys, don't stop! We wouldn't complain if we didn't care!
Stirring the pot since nineteen mumblty mumble...
-- "If god did not exist, it would be necessary to invent him"
--Voltaire
" That tells me that for this product, the poor developers branched their code and started adding all that AOL fluff. As far as most of us are concerned, that effort would have been better used fixing bugs on that branch."
If you had really been keeping up to date with the mozilla code as well as the development process (or looked at even one of the preview releases or even read a slashdot thread about them) then you would know that the Netscape developers did not branch and _start_ adding all that AOL fluff. TFrom the beginning there have always been two CVS trees, one for Mozilla and one for Netscape which pulls the Mozilla CVS tree and overlays all it's proprietary code. This parallel track has been going on since the beginning. The branch that did happen, (if you were paying attention you would have seen this in the nightly build directories starting on 9/22) _was_ a bug fixing and stability push branch. It was NOT a start "adding all that AOL fluff" branch. I repeat, that work has been going on in parallel since the beginning. I have been keeping up to date. It looks as if you haven't.
-Asa
Re:Opera is too standards focused
by
Cato
·
· Score: 2
Opera is also very annoying in its insistence that standards conformance is more important than being able to view a page - it sometimes is unable to view the page at all, showing a blank screen.
Most of the time it works well (it is my main Windows browser, and is very fast indeed), but the standards conformance should be selectable - i.e. a button that says 'do your best and forget standards'.
Unfortunately the Opera people seem to think selectable standards conformance is not important. The IETFers disagree, saying 'be strict in what you send and liberal in what you accept' - since Opera is on the receiving end of HTML, a 'liberal' option would be far more useful, and in the long run would promote web standards by selling more copies of Opera.
slow, buggy, user unfriendly
by
raphinou
·
· Score: 1
I used to be a Netscape supporter until they got bought by AOL, now I am completely disappointed by their software.
It is VERY VERY SLOW.
You don't have key combinations to send a mail (ALT+ENTER), when defining a filter, you can't add a folder from the same window (in 4.7 you could.....).
The good thing is automatic mail address collection.......
Re:slow, buggy, user unfriendly
by
skt
·
· Score: 1
The good thing is automatic mail address collection.......
maybe, but it doesn't support LDAP directory lookups, making it unusable for our business. I really feel that the LDAP lookups of NS4.x were one of its best features. 4.x has much better integration with this directory than any other mail client I have tried. The address book of NS6 really feels like a step down for me. Oh well, the whole program feels like a step down so I guess the address book should too.
40Mb or 2Mb? Guess which one I went for...
by
nagora
·
· Score: 2
Opera beta 2 for Linux is about 2Mb (=10min) download. Netscape 6 is 40 (=3hrs 20min). Neither quite work, but Opera admits it's a beta.
Someone take Netscape outside and put it out of our misery.
TWW
-- "Encyclopedia" is to "Wikipedia" what "Library" is to "Some people at a bus stop"
Re:40Mb or 2Mb? Guess which one I went for...
by
roca
·
· Score: 2
You should have run the Netscape installer and opted not to download all the optional components (e.g. the 28MB JVM).
Did they even QA this ? Also security problems
by
MarcoAtWork
·
· Score: 4
What about making the installer application proxy-aware ? I am behind a fairly fascist firewall that doesn't allow anything through (I have to use a proxy for http) and obviously the installer application just hangs.
Fortunately the ftp site also carries the big tar file which I could download easily (and much faster than I thought, very close to 100KB/s average)
That said my first impression is not that good since besides taking like years to start up (on a p3-550 w/ 128 megs) every time I try to access a site, *any* site, I get the following
got a request
JavaScript error:
line 0: uncaught exception: [Exception... "Component returned failure code: 0x80004005 (NS_ERROR_FAILURE) [nsIBrowserInstance.loadUrl]" nsresult: "0x80004005 (NS_ERROR_FAILURE)" location: "JS frame:: chrome://navigator/content/navigator.js:: OpenBookmarkURL:: line 714" data: no]
JavaScript error:
chrome://navigator/content/sessionHistoryUI.js line 150: gURLBar has no properties
If the URL is typed in directly I just get the gURLBar error, and not the previous one, in any case it doesn't work.
Also interesting that opening up the preferences dialog gives this on the console
we don't handle eBorderStyle_close yet... please fix me
*** panel to load is = chrome://communicator/content/pref/pref-navigator. xul
*** queueing up a panel...
this is on a fairly vanilla RH 7 box, which should have been QA'd by the NS folks I think... the second time I ran this abomination it doesn't even give me an error, it just refuses to load any page (I still get the errors if I click on the bookmarks tho).
An interesting tidbit, the default setting is to *save* all the data from previously submitted forms and passwords to sites (check in the preferences), and you can even display that previously entered data. If you leave your netscape unattended, prepare to be burned (IE at least *asks* you the first time if you want to save the passwords/form data)
-- --
the cake is a lie
Too bad the Java doesn't actually WORK!
by
KlomDark
·
· Score: 2
Konqueror is nice, but it's still a bit unfinished. The Java part works, once in a while, most stuff will not work. I've yet to be able to open my.yahoo.com with Konqueror. It will be very very nice, when it's done...
If you had been actually watching (or better yet, participating in) the development process then you would know that any non-bandaid fixes that happened in the branch were contributed (subject to reviewers@mozilla.org) back to the Mozilla trunk. There won't be a big merge of branch to trunk since it was happening with almost every checkin for the last 6 weeks. One of the reasons that Mozilla nightly builds are as strong as they are is because of all the work that happened on the Netscape push to 6.0
Y'used to be able to get windows 3.1 to boot and run off a single 1.44 MB floppy (though you had to zip it and make it unzip itself into memory to do that). Wonder how small you can get a modern browsing platform for the x86? D.R. Webspyder was only about 4 floppies inc DR DOS, wasn't it?
Anything less than 100% shouldn't be tolerated when it comes to standards support; that's what standards are all about.
You're using a web browser, aren't you? There exists no browser that exists that supports any set of standards perfectly. Hence, you are supporting software which does not fully support standards.
One has to choose the most-standards-compliant software, and here, Gecko-based systems rule, far and away.
Can you say Oracle? Can you say Sun? This article is dead on. Hell any of the Linux companies would be able to give at least as much bandwidth and hardware to the project as AOL does. The only reason, IMHO, that they stick with AOL is that it is easier everything is in place but to move it would be far from fatal and in fact in the long run by making it clear that working on Mozilla is *not* working for AOL it would make for a stronger project. But for now it is doing just fine. BTW, I just grabbed the nightly and it is pretty slick.
--
Cypherpunks: Civil Liberty Through Complex Mathematics.
Those who live by the sword die by the arrow.
In the sea directory at the lowest level there is an install file for each language/OS combo. You can download that instead of grabbing 2078 XPI files.
Thats deeply unrealistic. W3C recent standards are extremely complex (I have the schema spec before me: its in three parts, over around 300 pages, is very informally written, and deeply confusing). 100% compliance is very hard, when you also want 100% compatibility with buggy web pages.
Put bluntly: if you think 100% compliance and compatibility are possible, go do it. The world will beat a path to your door.
I tried the Mozilla 13 Nov nightly under Mandrake 7.1 last night. It might render more accurately than Netscape, but it doesn't look as good. The fonts it was using are just atrocious, and quite hard to read. I prefer the fonts Netscape uses. Actually, I prefer to reboot back into Win2K and use IE. So, is this font problem an issue with Mozilla, or just the X Window System in general? I am quite impressed with the look under Windows of decent fonts, and anti-aliased everywhere.
> It was close. So close. Another month, maybe two at most, to fix the most glaring standards-compliance and stability bugs. That's all it would have taken.
This is true for every project. But there is a day where you have to ship. If they had waited a couple of month, then there would still have been a few remaining bugs. You would have whinned the same way.
See how linux 2.4 is slipping. More than a year late. Sure, it doesn't matter, it is free software. But for netscape6, it matters. The marketshare is almost 100% IE. In a few month, the web would be IE only. Be glad they released something. Be _very_ glad.
FYI: if you grab the jre.xpi from NS6.0 distro tree you can (finally) get mozilla nightly + java going. Or at least you could with 2000111321. lots better:-)
and yes ns6/moz is clunky, but i have been using it for some months now and it works -- better than 4.7x for me anyway.
remember, mozilla 1.0 is 2Q2001. so it would have been too long a time to wait for netscape.
1. It is too slow. On my mac it is almost half the speed of 4.7. Even ie on the mac is faster!
2. It is full of links to useless busines/entertainement/buy/sell stuff, that i haven't figured out how to eleminate from the interface.
No Junkbuster Proxy w/Netscape 6
by
cowboy+junkie
·
· Score: 2
A huge downside for me is that NN6 only supports HTTP 1.1 through the proxy, which means that you can't use the Junkbuster proxy. Sadly, that means I'm stuck with IE unless I want to return to the land of the neverending banner ad.
Use "custom install" on the US version to get UK
by
divec
·
· Score: 1
If you use the normal install program, then choose "custom install", it's got an option for a UK language pack.
I have been keeping up to date. It looks as if you haven't.
I followed the instructions here to get the source via CVS and every day or so I run 'gmake -f client.mk' which updates my source files and rebuilds. Is there something I should do to be more up to date than that?
Opera isn't fully CSS1 compliant. Just check the W3C CSS Test Suite and you'll se it.
Internet Explorer is 99% compliant and Mozilla is almost perfect too.
The latest Mozilla Nightly Builds really impressed me. It's reasonably fast and stable (yes, IE crashed 3 times today, and Mozilla didn't. It's really weird but it's my personal case). I just found out the cool Layers stuff doesn't work yet. It has evolved A LOT though.
Proxy Auto Config does not work on either Linux or Windows, manual proxy config works fine.
Unable to get RealPlayer or Flash Plugin to work under Linux (Maybe user error)
Scroll Wheel not working under windows.
Overall -- works nice. php.net still does not work though.
My wheel mouse works fine in win2k.
I'm quite pleased with what I've seen so far.
Not too shabby for such an overhaul as what we've seen from 4.76 to 6.0
Patches/updates may be quite necessary, but I give the Netscape kudos for being able to pull such an undertaking off without too many hangups.
-- "I have no special gift, I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
wharfrat said: > Overall -- works nice. php.net still does not work though.
Are you speaking of those nice windows that appears when you select 'Quick Ref', etc...?
They're developed with DHTML, and Mozilla no longer support them as is.
However, even if your browser doesn't support Javascript, you can find those windows at the bottom of the main page. They work. --
Luis González
Re:Wait for 6.1! Same goes for Mozilla
by
Gregor+Samsa
·
· Score: 1
Same thing happens on some of my machines. It shouldn't be necessary to reboot. When you open the task manager after you closed Netscape you'll see that the 'Netscape' process still hangs (around). Kill it and restart Netscape - everything should work again (for a while).
Calm down buddy I was throwing out examples of what you were talking about. I was saying you where right and adding my own thoughts on the subject to it. Maybe would have been better to respond to the parent but whatever. This was not a flame. But I am still trying to figure out why my first post in this thread was a troll? The moderation for about the last week has been insane.
--
Cypherpunks: Civil Liberty Through Complex Mathematics.
Those who live by the sword die by the arrow.
I can't believe this is the final product release
by
pauldy
·
· Score: 1
I can't belive they released this under as a final product no Preview tags no beta designations. I have run it twice and crashed it twice on things as trivial as javascript arrays and some dhtml. I'm a developer and scared to try and support a browser on the sites I develop that can't even render a homepage that works fine in previous versions without crashing to the ground.
Yeah, I have this problem when hitting sites owned by large companies (ie: MS or AOL). The problem is that since the companies are so large, their web pages and cookies span a couple of domains and screw things up.
.. I have my cookie prefs in Netscape (4.75/X11 Linux) set to "only allow cookies from the originating server as the page" and the download links (click here... no, now click here... no, now click HERE...) stop if you don't have 'accept all cookies' on.
Maybe it was a glitch. Anyone else see this happen?
-- ZOMG I WOULD LOVE TO KNOW ABOUT YOUR FEELINGS ON MACINTOSH VERSUS WINDOWS, VI VERSUS EMACS, AND HOW YOU'RE NOT A DORK
I ran into the same problem and even after I allowed all cookies, it still gave me the same message. I just clicked on the "Introducing Netscape 6" link in the headline and it took me directly to the download link.
-----------------------
by SimonK (simon@flatnet.demon.co.gb) on 11:53 14 November 2000 EST (#182)
(User #7722 Info)
Thats deeply unrealistic. W3C recent standards are extremely complex (I have the schema spec before me: its in three parts, over around 300 pages, is very informally written, and deeply confusing). 100% compliance is very hard, when you also want 100% compatibility with buggy web pages.
Put bluntly: if you think 100% compliance and compatibility are possible, go do it. The world will beat a path to your door.
----------------
Even if it was possible.. you would never get to it because your mailbox would be full of anony-cowards sending email saying how much you suck for
a) taking time to do it
b) not making it the way they want it
c) releasing anything that isnt perfect.
d) because it makes anonycoward feel all that much more powerful in their tiny world.
If you're dissatisfied with NS6's performance, delete it and download Mozilla--no matter what, Mozilla will always be much farther ahead in developement than NS. I'm running a nightly build of Mozilla right now, and I'm really impressed with it. In fact, I don't even use NS4.7 anymore. My RAM is a little on the light side, so it's a little sluggish when I'm doing lots of other things, but it is a good browser.
I was a little annoyed when I heard Netscape was gonna branch Mozilla for their commerical release because then everyone would be calling it Netscape when it's actually Mozilla, but that's trivial compared to the real downside here. Since Netscape will be an old version of Mozilla, a lot of the things that people'll be bitching about won't be an issue under Mozilla. Any problem they have will be at least a little bit better under Moz. *sigh*, another thing to educate the masses about...
I too had the wierd rendering of spacers. What fixed it for me was enter the correct dpi for my display. This is in the fonts section of the preferences. You can find out what dpi your display is set to in the Display control panel on the Settings tab, under the advanced button.
Netscape 6 is bloatware, use Mozilla on Linux
by
Ironworks
·
· Score: 1
I run Linux (Mandrake 7.1, XFree 4.01, and Helix Gnome) on an IBM 380Z (300Mhz, 64meg ram). Netscape 6 always chewed my ram and began utilizing swap space when I started it. I'm now using Mozilla 18 (Nightly Build) to type this. It is TONS faster on page rendering and my swap space monitor (GTOP) is telling me that I'm not using ANY swap space. I actually have 5 meg of memory free right now. I'm glad I switched. And won't be back. Netscape is NOT ready for release.
Why oh why do they need to do these damn small install files that go out on the 'Net and get everything? What I really want is a web interface
that will let me pick my components and then send me an installer package custom made for my selections. It can't be that hard.
Sounds like the sort of thing a corporate sysadmin would say. Who's time can be better spent than doing the same thing X times...
I'm posting this from OS Xb in Carbon Mozilla! Granted, it crashes unexpectedly and the fargin' MENUS are almost never in the same place twice (which is really weird), but compared to IE, this thing feels better. I always feel like I'm interfacing with molasses whenever I use IE, on any platform (MacOS 9, OS X or windez).
Oh, and Copeland was dead years ago, and *rightly so.* Apple told Adobe they'd have to re-write all their apps from scratch just for Copeland, and Adobe told them to take a hike.
Pope
Freedom is Slavery! Ignorance is Strength! Monopolies offer Choice!
-- It doesn't mean much now, it's built for the future.
I've tried it (Celeron 366, 128MB RAM, NT4) - here is my take:
- It's relatively fast (but Konqueror is faster and IE is faster too).
- It takes a long time to load.
- It loads the JRE on startup - why? That makes it take 24-25MB memory and I've got it up beyond 40MB just browsing af few sites. You can disable Java, and it will of course not load the JRE, but it still takes about 17MB!
- It's a pain to manage bookmarks - I tried to rearrange the imported bookmarks from IE, but I gave up at last:-(
Greetings Joergen
I can't get it to display a single page.
by
Mustang+Matt
·
· Score: 1
It won't even TRY to display anything.
The only thing non-standard that I'm doing is using the autoconfig file.
I can't figure out what it's doing except when I look at the javascript debugger there is a nasty error.
Can anyone load www.bridge.com?
-- The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve nor will he ever receive either. - Benjamin Franklin
Lynx is all you'll ever need, there is nothing to see on the internet. It is only data. You do not need flash. You do not need PNG. You do not need MPEG. It is all a corruption of what the internet is for. Transfer of data. SO:P on you mister bitchy boo.
Actually only a week ago..:).. I don't have the URLs at hand. It was quite professional work, nicely designed, informative... worked fine in NS and almost not at all in IE - the frmae with most of the info was blnk in IE and some JavaScript/dhtml was flawed.. hmmmm... it was a site about the steel industry in Sweden... just can't remember the URL..:-/ -- "No se rinde el gallo rojo, sólo cuando ya está muerto."
From what I've heard (I'll try netscape 6 tonight though), it is pretty bad. Mozilla is a great product, and getting stabler by the day (literaly), however, I believe that netscape split from mozilla a while back.
I cant see the benifit of going with netscape over mozilla. It would be nice if netscape can continue against IE, but if its buggy I doubt it. IE6 is going into beta testing, and It's bound to have lots more bloated features to keep the plebs happy.
As far as I can tell, for mainstream (Windows), Opera will not get market penenetration, mainly the fact it costs money.
Netscape wont get in either because (aside from any bugs that are in it), it is not IE (and there are many sites that are IE only), and people dont want to download massive files over their 56k modem to look at web sites when they dont need to.
The more technicaly minded, namely slashdot readers, will give all browsers a try. It saddens me, however, that over half the people on my computer science course thing Linux is the scum of the earth and are quite happy to reboot into windows (we dual boot) to read their email, or write in a text editor, then give linux a try!
With the software engineers of the future thinking like that, what will the world be like?
Mozilla only runs on one platform, and that is its horribly bloated abstraction library. That runs on multiple platforms.
IE works on Windows, through another horribly bloated abstraction layer on UNIX (Solaris and HP-UX) and on Macintosh. Mozilla doesn't really support more platforms - just more configurations of UNIX.
Debian's X configuration is always screwed up out of the box. Garunteed.
Sorry... but replaced Debian a while ago. It just never works out of the box with TNT2 cards, at least not in my experience. Had problems with a V3 as well.
I think it is fair to say that most people today buy -- i.e., spend their own money -- on a computer to browse the web. That's what drives the decision to spend the $800-$1000. IE is already there. Add to that the admittedly subjective notion that it looks better and works faster than Netscape. Why would anyone bother to even look at Netscape.
The lack of a stable browser that measures up to IE is, I think, the single biggest impediment to moving Linux into the desktop market.
For instance... Or any document.layers.blablabla... I'm NOT saying NS is standard complying! If you read my post I say: "IE does not display pages written for NS correctly". I have seen quite a bunch of company sites that work fine in NS and not in IE. Of course this is because the programmers were using NS while developing the site and didn't take the time to include IE code - which I always do... Hell - I even detect if it's Mac or PC. I don't bother with *NIXes eventhough they're my prefered OS:es. Why? Cause *NIX folx don't bitch about an extra scrollbar here and there or some extra/less pixels here and there..:).. Domo arigato guys & grrls..
-- "No se rinde el gallo rojo, sólo cuando ya está muerto."
In Internet Explorer, going to "about:mozilla" results in a totally blank page with a blue (#000080) background, reminiscent of the BSOD. This is a pun at how Netscape crashes all the time.
Yeah, and here's the HTML code that they generate for "about:mozilla":
Netscape 6 seems stable to me. I've been using it for about an hour without a crash on winblows 98. My only complaint is that it does not give keyboard shortcuts in Composer.
--
Don't write in this space. OK
Netscape Had better pull this one off
by
zrk
·
· Score: 3
I think this is make-or-break time for them. It's about time they released something, but on the other hand, one would hope all standards have been adhered to, not just 'interpreted' or adapted like IEEEEEEE.
B: "Hey rocky, watch me pull a Netscape out of my hat?"
R: "Again? That trick never works"
Netscape 6 renders sites with many multiple nested tables at about 1/2 the speed (or worse) of IE. The rendering is so bad when I visit one table-intensive site that there is about a one second delay between the time you press pagedown and the time the window actually scrolls. If I switch away from the Netscape 6 window and then switch back to it, it takes 3 or 4 seconds to paint the screen. While this may be an improvement over the prior versions of Navigator (I just tried 4.7 and it locked on the page) it definitely isn't comparable to IE in this respect.
I thought the newest realease of Netscape was supposed to use less system resources.
On a Win2K system.
37MB on intital loading of program.
41MB on opening of a second browser window.
I thougt this was supposed to be a "leaner and meaner" browser.
Nice going AOL.
Get it from ZDNet's download center, and since it's just the basic install file, use the UK's servers for your download. It went pretty fast for me.
First impressions: Yeah, all the bugs aren't fixed, which kind of sucks, cause there's a pretty nasty JS one that I posted about two weeks ago that hasn't been fixed in the nightlies and severely hampers some Intranet work I do. It also still renders Slashdot's spacer images in the titles of articles with a greenish line around them, so they look like little green squares.
If you've been using Mozilla for the past six months, you won't notice anything new, other than the fact that it takes up twice as much memory, loads a bunch of AOL shortcuts (I'm using the Win32 version) on your desktop and will allow you to integrate RealPlayer 8, Flash, etc. with your download.
Second Impressions: Why oh why do they need to do these damn small install files that go out on the 'Net and get everything? What I really want is a web interface that will let me pick my components and then send me an installer package custom made for my selections. It can't be that hard.
You must have missed the option in the NS6 installer to save the install files to disk, then. It seemed pretty clear to me. Next time, check before you claim something.
Heh, well, since the installer for linux is a shell script that calls netscape-installer-bin, and the shell script ends with something like
rm -rf/tmp/.tmp.i.x*
which removes the temp files, one could summise that if you removed or maybe even commented out that line, all would be safe. (Besides, I wouldn't know. I never got past the installer. Piece of trash. Maybe it's because of the server load, though. Ah well.)
Now.. using them again later on.. ? I'll leave that as an excercise to the reader.
In the past, it was possible--though not too easy--to simply locate where the XPIs are which the installer downloads (it's on Netscape's FTP site somewhere) and download them into the same directory as the installation program. It seems to be intelligent enough to check the current directory before trying to download the files. So to get it at work, just download all the XPI files and save them with the main installer.
The incomplete URL is ftp://ftp.netscape.com/pub/netscape6/[language]/6. 0/[platform]/[platform2]/xpi
where [language] is one of english, english_uk, french, german, or japanese (some might be incomplete); [platform] is unix, windows, or mac; and [platform2] is linux22, win32, or macos8.5 (respectively). Hope that helps.
I would be using Galeon, but until they either provide a complete self-contained RPM or make it an easy compile, I can't be bothered.
Huh? I test Galeon regularly but I've never compiled neither Galeon nor Mozilla. The Mozilla RPMs provided by Chris Blizzard (http://people.redhat.com/blizzard/so ftw are/)
work fine together with the Galeon RPMs downloadable from Sourceforge. It's three RPMs you have to install (mozilla, mozilla-devel, and galeon) and I don't see why they should be packaged as only one, and loose the modularity.
If you want to try Galeon 0.8, you might have better luck with more recent Mozilla builds than M18 (Blizzard has those too).
Why oh why do they need to do these damn small install files that go out on the 'Net and get everything? What I really want is a web interface that will let me pick my components and then send me an installer package custom made for my selections. It can't be that hard.
The installer for Win32 had a checkbox: "Save Selected Components Locally" or something like that. It created a Netscape 6 Setup folder on my machine, which has all the bits it downloaded. Is that what you're talking about?
If Netscape killed Mozilla funding, that would be a very serious blow which Mozilla might not survive.
No. Mozilla has reached critical mass... all anyone could do to it now is delay it. I'm running Mozilla nightly builds both under Windows and under Linux, and it is stable and fast for me. In comparison with the amount of work it took to get it this close to done, the amount remaining is small.
What's more, the remaining work is exactly the kind of work that open-source projects do best: taking something that mostly works, fixing a few bugs, and adding a few features. Loss of Netscape resources would be a blow, but it is far too late for it to be a fatal one.
steveha
-- lf(1): it's like ls(1) but sorts filenames by extension, tersely
Actually, the Netscape installer allows you to save the install files locally. Having just upgraded to IE 5.5 (I know, I know, but I still have to test my pages in IE), I was disappointed to find that (at least on the W2K IE install) there is no longer an option to save to disk. If you go to the M$ website, they have a link for you to buy a CD with all the install files. What a(nother) ripoff!
That said, it's actually usable as an everyday browser (which is more than can be said for M18).
Hmm, I;ve been using nightlies since M18 came out. I'm sure it's loaded with debug code, but it's still pushing towards my normal everyday browser. I basically only use netscape 4.7 only for mail and news, which is not as polished as the web browser.
The installer _is_ proxy-aware
by
kinkie
·
· Score: 2
The installer _is_ proxy-aware, and will even support proxy authentication (which I need).
Pity that it will fail...
-- /kinkie
Re:The installer _is_ proxy-aware
by
Fishstick
·
· Score: 1
It seems to be proxy aware (has a button for entering the proxy settings) but seems to fail to connect through mine here at work.
--
There is much cruelty in the universe, John. Yeah, we seem to have the tour map.
only way I could get it to work...
by
hezron
·
· Score: 1
It was close. So close. Another month, maybe two at most, to fix the most glaring standards-compliance and stability bugs. That's all it would have taken.
But no, they had to hand the project over to the marketers. So in the end, we get a Mozilla nightly plus a zillion ads foisted on us in every aspect of the interface. An interface which breaks every single standard known to man (it doesn't even get Windows quite right.
At least the speed issues are more or less resolved. But all the same, I'm sticking to Mozilla for now. NS6 should be treated as an unfinished project, because frankly it is. ----------
You're using a web browser, aren't you? There exists no browser that exists that supports any set of standards perfectly. Hence, you are supporting software which does not fully support standards.
Only because there is no browser that supports them perfectly yet. But it can be done. Mozilla is so close to doing just that, that it's painful to see Netscape's marketroids release the incomplete version.
You're right. Gecko is the closest thing out there to 100% standards-compliance. But unlike most other things in this world, perfection is possible when you're implementing standards. And when perfection is an attainable goal, nothing less is good enough. ----------
Agreed. Frankly, I'd prefer we don't see full standards compliance. Eventually, either the W3C will get their heads out of their asses, or people will tell them to go screw themselves and no one will listen to them.
Have you ever looked at the "rules" for CSS? What a joke! Excuse me if I don't want to program a few hundred rules and their special cases just so someone can put a border around the 4th letter in the 3rd bolded work in the 2nd paragraph.
You can always spend an extra month fixing bugs in any reasonably sized project. In the Open Source world you can usually say "You'll get it when it's ready", however Netscape has commerical pressures and had to set a firm date.
Also, there are very few parallels between Mozilla/Netscape6 and Linux 2.4, so don't try to make them. I wish people would stop saying 2.4 is late. It's not. Linus said he'd like a shorter development cycle, aimed at getting 2.4 out at the end of last year. That didn't prove to be achievable, but that doesn't make 2.4 late.
One of things people have to realise is that there was no hard target for functionality in 2.4 (other than to fix the performance problem the MindCraft benchmarks exploited). If 2.4 was shipped in Dec 99 it would have been with less additional functionality than the 2.4 which is likely to be released next month.
... fix the most glaring standards-compliance... bugs...
i really wish people would stop propogating this mistruth... the standards compliance already far exceeds that of IE and Netscape 4.x. if you don't believe go take a look at the dom in IE and then in Mozilla and compare it to the w3c's recommendation for dom2. I can't even do basic things like getElementById in IE... so unless you think 99% of standards compliance is not good enough for you, don't complain! (99% is close enough for me)
Why is perfect standards compliance a bad idea for HTML? Two words: platform widgets. Netscape's decision to use cross platform widgets, as I understand it, was because CSS2 demands that every platform's widgets be able to do stuff that they're not designed to do - stretch, change colors, etc. So to solve this problem, Moz renders its interface, using ugly XP widgets that aren't even the ones they wooed us with way back when.
If anything, the W3C should be chastised for leaning towards standards (such as XHTML too) that are way too complicated and strict and not in the spirit of HTML - a people's programming language which has a loosey-goosey interpreter that allows mistakes that non-programmers tend to make - and that's a good thing!
My prediction is that when somebody takes the "Netscape Gecko(tm)" engine, gets rid of the XP widgets, the XP interface, dolls it up to look all cool-and-draggy like IE5, makes it do all those cool geeky banner/doubleclick elimination features, releases a strong Mac, Unix and Win32 version, all under the GPL (if that's truly possible) this will be a great browser, with both geek and non-geek support. When I tell Windows that my menus are supposed to be gray and in size 16 arial bold, that's how I want it, dammit. I'm not going to load some dang theme. I want the interface to get the hell out of my way so I can use the browser. The best thing about IE5 is that in 5 seconds from the default install, I can customize it exactly how I want it - small and out of my face. No menus to navigate, just clickin' and draggin. On the other hand, if I wanted everything big and out in front with a big ol' "go" button, I could do that too. It's not about whether it's possible to change things around or not in Moz, it's about whether it's more convenient that it is in IE5. And it isn't. 100% standards compliance is a dumb idea. All I want is a browser that loads fast, runs fast, has a brilliant non-interface, is reasonably standards compliant, loaded up with geeky features (tucked away for joeschmoe yet still easy to find and use, of course) with a small memory footprint. I thought this was the promise of Mozilla, but I guess I was wrong. Rather, this is the promise of IE6 - and THAT'S SCARY.
An interface which breaks every single standard known to man (it doesn't even get Windows quite right.
Try the "native.windows" theme on mozilla.themes.org. It gives Moz a Windows/IE look-and-feel and seems to fix some of the interface issues by using native-looking widgets. It also just seems quicker, although I'm sure that's only due to my own f-ed perceptual associations between IE and the default moz interface. --
damnit I downloaded and installed it around 8am EST but I didnt submit it to/. cus I figured it would have been there already. oh well, no problems in 15 minutes of use WOOHOO!!!
Well, NS6 gave me more AOL junk, but it has a bunch of stuff that I couldn't get for mozilla.
Rather than fix up NS6, try this on for size:
Copy the contents of the PLUGINS folder from Netscape 6 into the BIN/PLUGINS folder of Mozilla (except for npnul32.dll) to increase plugin compatability for Mozilla.
This was the final step for me; now I use Mozilla for all browser activities. - oh, and this is for Windows, so I don't know how it will work on Linux or Mac.
Interesting (yes, it's still me)
by
MarcoAtWork
·
· Score: 2
Just out of curiosity, I downloaded a mozilla nightly, and I get exactly the same uncaught exception error, so after all it's not really netscape's fault.
I will submit a bugzilla entry right away.
-- --
the cake is a lie
At least that's constant 25 MB.
by
bkosse
·
· Score: 2
I've been running this single session of NS6 all day and I'm at 43 MB total size. This is such a huge improvement over the prior Netscape which by now would be well over 150 MB due to nasty leaks in form input handling.
Re:Wait for 6.1! Same goes for Mozilla
by
jeminer
·
· Score: 1
> BTW, does anyone else have that problem where all of a sudden clicking on a link doesn't
> work anymore and the only way to get them to work is to reboot? This is also 4.7 on
> Win98.
I get that ALL the time in Windows or Linux.. me thinks it's related to Java or JavaScript (clap if your suprised).. anyway, you don't have to reboot in windows, as far as I can tell.. there's a window-less Netscape process that'll show up in the End Task dialogue after you've killed enough of Netscape's windows. Just kill that and wait for windows to realize that it doesn't want to die gracefully, end it, and it should be safe to restart. I've been running with java and javascript off, and that seems to help.. so many sites 'need' it now, though, it's getting irritating turning it off and on.:p Do what you will. I'll be suprised if 4.72 lasts long enough to let me post this.
I have the last beta which I had to use because Netscape kept blowing up on my machine.It will completely baffle 90% of the current Netscape users who can barely function with a toolbar.
But I like it. It is "robust" and has a "rich diversity of functionality". Let's just pray it doesn't screw up my Javascript apps like it has in the past.
--
If you aren't part of the solution, there is good money to be made prolonging the problem
Netscape.com proclaims that Netscape 6 is here, but the download page only proclaims the preview release 3. The ftp site has the proper version. What's up?
I have installed it, and everything seems to work, however:
Motif-isms in buttons and lists are gone, and correct fonts and charsets are used, as opposed to what Netscape 4.x does.
To disable gtk themes I had to change $HOME to the directory without.gtkrc, as nothing else worked.
SSL didn't work correctly until I made netscape installation directory writable by user running it.
There were no problems with Java or Flash plugin -- Java is actually the reason why I am using it instead of Mozilla, as later Mozilla snapshots changed the API and don't work with latest Java plugin anymore.
-- Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
Netscape and OSX to be released in tandom...
by
tenzig_112
·
· Score: 1
... sometime next decade.
I'm still waiting for Mosaic 4.0 and Coplenand, dammit!
Windows doesn't include IE. I have a Win98 installation with IE removed, and it occupies 60-70 MB. You can also create a fully working copy of OS/2 Warp in a very compact space (about 40MB or less). I would like to see an installed Linux distro with X and KDE occupying 60MB.
-- War is one of the most horrible things a human can be exposed to. And one of the worlds largest industries.
last time i checked there were still lots of bugs left in mozilla. i thought they would have waited a bit more to get more of the bugs ironed out before releasing... oh well.. count my blessings, its small, its not ie! (is this release premeture?)
talking about small, only 23M for Netscape+Real+Java+Shockwave.... very cool
Internet2 connection is cool.
Purdue University is cool.
But it appears the server is getting too much load. Looks like I'm going to have to find another mirror.
Re:It is nice, but DELETE YOUR OLD PROFILES!!!!
by
kaisyain
·
· Score: 2
Really? It's slow as molasses on my Windows NT box:-(. Guess I'll keep using IE until Mozilla becomes an actual challenger.
This really sucks....
by
Electric+Eye
·
· Score: 1
I downloaded it for my mac. Installation went smoothly. Then, the disappointment set it (as I expected). First of all, the damn thing does NOT recognize any of the old Netscape preferences, bookmarks, etc. So, lo and behold, you have to re-enter every damn setting AGAIn!!!! And, as most earlier versions have done, it crashed on me when I was trying to subscribe to newsgroups. BOOM! Buh-bye.
I'm used to NS 4.7. I think I'll stick with this and IE 5.5 for a while.
Incredibly disappointing.
Re:This really sucks....
by
ThatField
·
· Score: 1
I had the SAME problem on Windows 98 SE! Although, mine took a slightly different form... it recognized the preferences & profile stuff from other users on this box, but not mine for some reason. I tried several times, but nothing short of re-entering all my info would work...which just wasn't all that feasible for me since my bookmark.htm is 59K. I was able to import those bookmarks into the new ones, but then I couldn't quite manage all my bookmarks so they were all in the order I wanted them...it was weirder than it sounds. I'm actually using IE for the first time since late 1998....well, until they get their act together, or until Mozilla is ready for a real release. I like the nightly builds at least.
What a cheap shot at Microsoft! Anybody can claim that NS6 is far superior browser to IE5, let alone IE6 with all the standard compliance built into Gecko?
Could you just imagine if it was IEx released with as many bugs at NS6?
I like Netscape. I have been using Netscape since 2.0. But come on people, let's stop the ranting and let's help dig those bugs out and contribute to Bugzilla.
Annoyed and unbiased.
--
--
so far so good. it imported all my 4.61 stuff seamlessly. The full install is about 43.6 mb though! Fonts don't seem exactly right, but not obnoxiously so.
Re:using it on a mac now
by
fawneyedgirl
·
· Score: 1
Nope. It hung on its install, then of course after it crashed my machine, I couldn't get the darn app to open. I tossed it.
How To get java for netscape6 to work with mozilla
by
richie123
·
· Score: 2
Netscape 6 is out, but as everyboddy knows, its a total POS. The thing is totally unstable under Linux, a pukes on dozens of web pages. However I have found that the java plugin that comes with ns6 works perfectly with mozilla (something the sun plugin won't do). so all you have to do is install ns6 and copy java2 from the plugins directory into mozilla/plugins and symlink the javaplugin_oji in the folder into mozilla/plugins.
Actually, there have been quite a few, especially with Win95. One time, on a machine I was scrapping I decided to go into the registry and delete every reference I found to one of the particular icons. What ended up happening was having a "folder icon" with no properties, unmovable on the desktop, and with no name.
Does anyone else think it is odd that a commercial browser is 'release' quality when they take a slightly buggy beta release from an open-source project, add a bunch more much, much buggier features and then pop it out the door? I'm sorry, I really like mozilla, but I think Netscape may be shooting themselves in the foot if this release isn't 'perfect' or at least much more stable than what IE on Windows is. Any major screw-ups and you can kiss the little bit of market share in the Windows world they have left goodbye. I really think they should be cautious with this one.
Slow moving marsupials and the women that love them
--
Slow moving marsupials and the women that love them
Next time, on Geraldo...
>It disgusts me that a company works their ass off >on a product and strives to make it open not only >for their well being but for other open source >projects (Gecko engine being seperate, etc).
I get the feeling that open source is the only reason this project ever saw the light of day. Whatever spirit Netscape had is gone, and I'm under the distinct impression this got only token support from management, and was primarily done off hours while the guys were forced to do crap like NS 4.5+.
-- Mix the failings of Usenet with the shortcomings of the World Wide Web and the result is slashdot.
Does anyone think its odd that you have NEVER seen the source code to other web browsers (or huge projects for that matter) that are commercial products? How do you know IE isn't 'slightly' buggy beta release with some fat on the sides? It disgusts me that a company works their ass off on a product and strives to make it open not only for their well being but for other open source projects (Gecko engine being seperate, etc).
Instead of sitting here and complaining about the release, go fix it. Ditto to all other 'this is a mistake' posts.
The non-clickable border around the Personal Toolbar is much tighter than in Netscape 4. This creates a much smaller click zone, e.g., worse usability.
The navigation toolbar (back/foward/reload) cannot be customized (or at least the option was not immediately obvious).
I've been a diehard Netscape user until 2 weeks ago when I finally switched to IE 5.5. These options and IE's advanced options for configuring 'trusted sites' makes me ashamed Netscape 6 turned out to be this bad.
Try downloading a theme from the Theme Park using a Mozilla nightly.
That's right, Netscape wants you to download its own browser before you install a theme. That seems to also exclude Mozilla, the browser it's built on.
I'm pretty sure this restriction was put in by Netscape, as the EarlyBlue theme can be downloaded from x.themes.org just fine.
No thanks, I don't want net2phone, cruft, etc... -------------
I don't think they did much of any QA on this at all. I got the latest preview release, and most of the time, standard HTML form buttons don't work. Screw Netscape, they suck now. -------------------------------------------- ------------- I bent my wookie
-- -------------------------------------------------- ------- I bent my wookie
Re:Internut Exploder vs. Nutscrape Nab-a-gator!
by
Wonko42
·
· Score: 2
I'd rather be able to copy/past the source into ANY editor I want, not what MS tells me to
IE gives you the option to specify your own source viewer. It defaults to notepad.exe, but you can change it to whatever you prefer.
I've had to tell friends not to bother with N6. While I fully support Netscape and a GPL'ed browser, it's just not ready for daily use.
I tried to install to/usr/local (the N6 default location), but of course you need to be root to do that. After installing and running it as root, I tried to run it as a normal user. Instant segfault. Changing permissions to o+rx for everything lets it run for anyone.
BUT...If you bring up preferences, you'll see lots of buttons and other widgets with no labels! My guess is that you need write privileges to get those working. It's another permissions problem, since everything works fine for root.
Obviously, I could set everything to rwx for everyone; but that kinda defeats the purpose of access controls, doesn't it?
Since I do want N6 to work, I've not just bitched here - I sent a bug report to them.
As a side note, trying to download themes gives an 'Error loading URL' message. I suspect there is something wrong with the page, rather than the server.
All this does make me wonder how much testing they've done. But I suspect the N6 final was a political, rather than technical, decision.
ftp://ftp2.netscape.com/pub/netscape6/english/6.0/
by
UU7
·
· Score: 1
stuff like this makes me feel for these guys. but why leave Mozilla? if they would only leave in the image filtering feature i would be ok with it.
--
--
my other post is +5 insightful
Re:Internut Exploder vs. Nutscrape Nab-a-gator!
by
vanguard
·
· Score: 1
HTML Source options: IE (IE opens the source in Notepad; Netscape just shows it to you)
Actually, Netscape doesn't just show it to you. It shows it to you with syntax high lighting. That's a big deal for me. I prefer Netscape's way of showing the source for that reason.
Vanguard
-- That which does not kill me only makes me whinier
From the: Didn't-you-watch-the-browser-X-files? dept.
Is it just me, really? I'm a Netscape fan, I'll admit it. But this release of Netscape 6 has had me feeling queasy each step of the way. Reviews have been poor, the interface is clunky, the bugs have been numerous....
...does it seem like a bad software nightmare to anyone else? I would like to have faith in this, really I would. I'm just finding a lack of.....solidarity in their methods and procedures, I guess. You know, it was NETSCAPE 3!, NETSCAPE 3 GOLD!, NETSCAPE 4.X!, and now it's: netscape6??? This isn't a software release, this is a software leak.
Excuse me? Does this make anyone else uncomfortable?
Ok, I like these and all, but how many applications are we going to do this with? I now have themes (read: skins) for Netscape (or Mozilla, as you prefer), WinAmp, WindowBlinds, blah, blah.
The result is a Mutt user interface that looks like it's gone through the blender a few times. Part of me likes N6's themes, but part of me says "why not just use the standard API's and leave the rest up to WindowBlinds, or the Appearance Manager or whatever?" Yes, themes let you change the UI layout (I think) and the icons on the buttons, but is that really worth it? If so, you could do that without a complete skin that blows off other system-wide skins.
Just a gripe...:)
--
"Let your heart soar as high as it will. Refuse to be average." - A. W. Tozer
I'm running it on an iMac DV+ 450Mhz G3 with MacOS 9.0.4. The customize sidebar feature works fine for me, and it takes about 7 seconds to start and another 3 seconds to display www.cnn.com. A local file cuts that down (you might want to try that to see if it's a network issue)
The big complaint I have is that the Java Console doesn't work on Mac or Linux. You have to look at the MRJAppletOutput file to see the stdout/stderr streams...
So where's the official version for Linux on a PPC - huh? I'm sick of these companies assuming Linux only run on an x86. I know, I can d/l the nightly from mozilla.org (which is what I do), but I'd like to see these places recognize that Linux runs on more than one architecture.
BD
Netscapes page won't let you install their themes on Mozilla... That sucks! They look nice too! -----------------------
Jeremy 'PeelBoy' Amberg
My adventures in Netscape 6
by
ThatField
·
· Score: 2
I downloaded it. Now I'm quite disappointed. Took me 3 tries of the download/install for it to actually install without any errors. Then when I finally got sick of it not finding my previous Netscape profile, yet it would consistently find the profiles of everyone else on this system, I realized that it's not worthwhile after about 2 1/2 hours and a very bad attitude that filled the air with swear words. So I uninstalled it, and found it doesn't *really* get uninstalled (using Windows 98 SE for all this). So I went and installed the latest IE 5.5 SP1 instead, which says a lot...considering I'm running FreeBSD on my laptop these days. Ya know what I mean?
The Mozilla nightly builds are better. How could AOL even think this crappy version passed off as a commercially viable product would go over? I mean, they're not my favorite company, but they didn't get rich by releasing software they should've worked on for another month or two. It's been a long day...goodnight.
Wow! I can't add helper apps!
by
Che+Leno
·
· Score: 1
They really rushed this to market. It took 5 minutes to crash it. Later I found out that I can't add mime types (a.k.a. helper apps), which to me makes it pretty much a useless browser.
For the Mozilla bigots, M18 also doesn;t yet support helper apps. At least not in the Win2K release.
The Opera browser is 100% W3C compliant and does a very good job in retaining compatibility with bugged web pages. It also gives you several options for 'fixing' a bugged web page -- a button toggles the formatting of the page on or off, and you can even set it to lie to the server about what browser it is. This really is a dynamite little browser that puts both IE and NS to shame.
Opera also has dozens of features that the other guys seem to have missed. I was so excited when I heard that Mozilla/NS 6.0 had a 'zoom' function...then I saw they only changed the text size. Opera can zoom into or out of a web page, changing text size, table sizes, and resampling any inline images. It also has a new 'fullscreen' mode that's amazing...I'm wondering if I can sneak Opera into work to replace Powerpoint for presentations. By comparison, NS 6.0's new features seem mostly limited to cookie control and changing skins.
I downloaded NS 6.0 for NT this morning. Some bugs in the user interface, but I haven't found any fatal bugs yet. It's nice and I might use it for work (where NS is allowed and Opera is not), but the NS/Mozilla tech is not good enough to replace the Opera browser I use at home.
-- Genocide Man -- Life is funny. Death is funnier. Mass murder can be hilarious.
Opera is NOT 100% compliant. There are a number of outstanding bugs which have been known for some time and which were still not addressed in the last release. One of these bugs is serious enough to prevent us from supporting Opera in the Web application we're currently developing.
Don't get me wrong; I like Opera, and am posting from it now. But it ain't perfect.
In fact it crashed 3 times after a format-and-reinstall procedure (some moron infected the machine), with as little software installed as possible. So, it couldn't be the administrator's fault.
Windows 2000 isn't thaaat good. It's obvious that it's better than NT4 (a lot). But it still has several problems, and even the most fanatic W2k fans admit it's extremely annoying sometimes. And IE crashes, yes it does. Crashing 3 times isn't normal, but that doesn't mean it's uncrashable
The Opera browser is 100% W3C compliant and does a very good job in retaining compatibility with bugged web pages.
Oh, c'mon, you didn't *really* mean that, did you?
As for the standards part, sorry to remind you, but Mozilla and so Netscape 6 have the crown for the most standards compliance around (and they're still not 100% conformant). Opera does a good job, but every browser still have issues.
Now, about compatibility with buggy web pages you gotta be joking... some time ago I tried to test some pages from where I work in Opera, just to see how it behaved. Most HTML there is written by lazy designers using Dreamweaver, so it is a complete mess and a total junk, unless you are willing to spend some hours to fix it. IE shows them OK (after all, Dreamweaver outputs for IE). Mozilla does just as good a job as long as you fix the Javascript issues (just add DOM compatibility to the scripts). NS4 does OK also. But Opera completely garbles the thing. I was so shocked by the horrid result that I never touched Opera again.
You may argue that "Opera is supposed to be about compliance, not buggy HTML", but in the real world we have buggy HTML in every place you go, thanks to old browsers not conforming to standards. And in that Mozilla kicks the hell out of Opera. Just check bugzilla and look for bugs with the "compat" keyword.
You may like Opera, it may be fast and all, but please, get facts a little straight before claiming things like "100% compliant".
Very interesting information there -- thanks for digging it up! And along with all the other responses to my post; you've all definitely made the point that Opera is not 100% W3C compliant. I believe they *claim* it is...and it's always been good enough for me, in testing my own web pages. I'll dig into this myself; I want to know what bugs there are that I haven't noticed.
But I'm pretty baffled about the differences we're seeing in buggy web pages. Opera allows you to fiddle with the rendering of web sites, by changing zooms, toggling formatting or images, changing browser designation, etc. I've seen some bugged web pages that at first didn't render well in Opera...but after a few button clicks I have always been able to tweak them to readability. And unlike NS4.6/.7, it's never crashed on me on a bad web page.
If you abandoned Opera because it initially gave you garbled results on a bad web page, you might want to try it again. Press the Background 'load/off' button, which I've found solves 90% of the problems. (I've also found it works better in v3.6 than 4.0, unfortunately, but it's still helpful.) Fiddle with the page a bit and I think you'll find that Opera gives you the tools to make sense out of any piece of crap on the web.
All of course, just in my own humble experience.:)
-- Genocide Man -- Life is funny. Death is funnier. Mass murder can be hilarious.
Ha... IE crashes 80% of the time when I get more than 5 windows open. I use nothing but Win2K at work, both home comps, and my laptop. I keep minimal software on my comps as well. This adds up to at least one crash today (3 today ironically).
-- Dissolve... Resolve... Evolve...
Re:Opera is too standards focused
by
Azghoul
·
· Score: 2
> Opera is also very annoying in its insistence that standards conformance is more important than being able to view a page - it sometimes is unable to view the page at all, showing a blank screen.
This is one of the silliest things I've heard in a while, and a prototypical liberal point of view. This sounds like the Gore campaign: "What? The election rules say X? Well let's change 'em to match what we want!"
Or outcome-based education: As long as it sounds good to you, your grammar is correct.
FAR, far better for a browser to say, "This is what HTML should be, if the authors screw it up, it's not our fault." then to try to figure out how to display incorrect HTML.
Btw: XHTML.
netscape6 can't even read a mime.type file
by
MrJerryNormandinSir
·
· Score: 1
Netscape 6 can't even read a mime.type file!
has anyone used this succesfully with Linux and
get it to read the mime.typefile? I was lucky
I backed up. I am back running 4.7
The Conqueror browser seems less buggy!
Is this a bug in N6 or in /. ad?
by
Cy+Guy
·
· Score: 1
I installed N6 today on Win95 and have found it to be much less buggy than the beta 3 version.
However, I can't link to the following URL provided as link from a/. banner ad for Zelerate: http://images.slashdot.org/cgi-bin/adlog.pl?index, open0012en
. Is the problem with the URL (perhaps the comma?) or with N6?
(Note: even in the/. preview of this post, the URL isn't treated as a link. Is it appearing as a link on your browser?)
Re:Is this a bug in N6 or in /. ad?
by
m3000
·
· Score: 1
This link works. The problem seems to be between accessing the domain name, and getting to that link I posted. I opened up the link you gave in N4.76, opened up the web page, then copied the URL in the address field into N6, and it worked just fine.
Somehow your browsers using a cached version of the page. Hold shift and click your reload / refresh button to force download of the page without using cache.
AOL owns Netscape so I can understand why they would want a company that they own to release a browser that automatically links to AOL
I do believe he is referring to an installation icon, as oppose to a web link.
Not ready for prime time...
by
NotAnAol
·
· Score: 1
I know that statement is probably no surprise to most of/. . But, I've had it for an hour. It froze the machine (windows, sorry) twice on install and has died a couple of times. It seems no better than PR3. And, the ftp server for importing themes seems to be down.
They're going to have to improve it a great deal for me to switch over 100%. I have a major problem with the missing LDAP capability. And, having IM tied to the browser means that I sign off of IM every time Netscape dies. They've got to separate email, IM and the browser into separate engines to fight- even IE's done that.
Sorry for being so down on them. But, I was expecting the new release to be the savior of the free world.;-) -John.
Because I use Linux and I have yet to find a way to get Mozilla nightlies to use Java. And I need the Java support along with all the plugins and such.
That being said, I have both Mozilla installed and N6. When I hit a page that needs java, I crank up N6. But I use Mozilla for everything else. As soon as Mozilla gets all the plugins and Java I will be able to remove both N4 and N6. I know N6 is supposed to suck, suck, suck, but I have found it to be pretty good. Mozilla Nightlies are buggy too. Using N6 is like using a milestone build instead of a nightly. It just has the advantage of Java support and a few extras that are from AOL/Netscape.
-- "Doubt your doubts and believe your beliefs."
-- Switchfoot, Ode to Chin
I'm still waiting for the ability to turn Java and/or Javascript on or off by default, and then either specify specific sites to permit one or both, or specific sites to deny from.. I hate it as a global option.. Some sites I have to use require one (or both) to work properly, and while they are sluggish and choppy due to this they at least are using it in a responsible manner. I would like to be able to say "deny java and javascript by default for all sites", and then list specific domains I want to use it on..
Im currently/still downloading NS6 (er, 'installing' it, that is), so I dont know yet wether it supports that.. If it does I've switched, at least until Mozilla has a release that qualifies as 'final' (eg bugs fixed, debugging code turned off)..
bought it about 2 years ago and love it - no linux port yet that i know of - allows site by site config of cookies, java, javascript, popups, etc - another personal favorite is you can kill redirectors.
no i don't work for them, just the single best piece of software i ever bought for windoze
-- The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers.
Shakespeare, Henry VI, Part 2, Act 4, Scene 2
If you haven't yet, go check out ForumZilla with Netscape 6. There isn't a whole lot to read with it yet, we're working on that, but it should give you a taste of what is out there and what is possible with the mozilla platform.
Tony
Re:40mb download? Get lost
by
AFCArchvile
·
· Score: 1
All it has to do is render HTML and run Java/Javascript and a few other miscellanious things!
Netscape also includes a POP3/IMAP/SMTP e-mail client (Messenger), an HTML editor (Messenger), AOL Instant Messenger, and Netscape Radio. Furthermore, it also contains a buttload of Java classes for Navigator.
One funny thing: when I clicked on "New Msg", it scolded me for not having a valid e-mail address. Then, it told me: "Netscape is out of memory. Try quitting some other applications or closing some windows." This message appeared even though only 85 MB of 256 MB of physical RAM was used. BTW, this is Netscape version 4.76, so it might be even worse in 6.0. Boy, am I glad that this isn't my computer; I exclusively use IE and Outlook Express since they use MUCH less memory than Netscape does:
netscape.exe: 10448 K
IEXPLORE.EXE: 1752 K
-- "Ancillary does not mean you get to rule the world." --U.S. Circuit Judge Harry Edwards, speaking to the FCC's lawyer
Here's my initial reaction. I haven't had time to really try it out yet. It seems rather rough and ready with some glitches that make it look and feel less than professional. I am impressed with how it looks from the themes side of things.
That damn menu bug is still there: I have to hold down the mouse button the whole time or the menu vanishes.
It looks good, and it's very refreshing.
It can be really slow: clicking through the preferences dialog, there's a significant delay between my click and the dialog pane appearing.
If I open a new window from one that is maximised, the new one comes up full size (not maximised), and partly off the screen.
Ctrl+O browses the local disc. Consistent functionality with other products would be nice. It seems silly that Ctrl+O and Ctrl+L functionality can't be merged in a seamless manner. It would simpler in use that way.
Various text fields and text on other controls such as drop lists doesn't fit correctly and gets cut-off.
For some reason, Java was trying to use a proxy on 127.0.0.1:8000. It's supposed to be using my browser settings, but I have it set up for a direct connection (HTTP has a greyed out proxy set from when I was playing around with Junkbuster). I had to actually remove the entry, even though it is disabled.
I miss the drop list completion in combo boxes that I've got used to with IE.
Is it me, or does going back and forth in the history remember my position? This was one of the features that made me give up Netscape in favour of IE. If this is the case, a big "YAY" is in order!
Resizing the window is abysmal: the screen updates are dreadfully slow.
Here's my thoughts, though I've only spent [unbelievably short period of time so that I can post to Slashdot] looking at this:
* Gawd, I hate that Netscape was bought by AOHELL
* Really, who needs skins?
* It doesn't render nearly as fast as [my favorite browser here]
* It would render a lot faster if they got rid of all the cruft
* My system crashed [x] times
* Why don't they change the download system from [x] to [y]?
In summation, I have waited [ever increasing period of time since last decent Netscape release] for this and it's still not as good as IE.
[General praise for old Netscape. Expression of sadness for what it has become. Resigned to living in a Microsoft world.]
I've been using nightlies since day one. On a whim I decided to install PR3 yesterday and I wasn't impressed. The main Mozilla tree is *far* more stable and usable!
I do remember the days of IE4.0, however. It's pretty much at the same level 4.0 was when it came out. I'll be waiting for 6.1, hopefully when the PDT gets their act together and ships all the pending bugfixes.
Don't ask me why they've branched the tree so early - Mozilla has gone into a climb to 1.0 and the tree has been keeping stable as they do it. If we're lucky, they'll just merge the NS6.0 changes onto the Moz1.0 codebase and they'll have a decent little 6.1 release.
*sigh*
And now hopefully we can have them dedicate much more time to performance and memory footprint. I know it's been getting better but between it and chrome rendering speed, they are definately the biggest barriers to acceptance.
I wonder how many of the people moaning about Netscape being released too soon actually took the time to install it. I'm typing this in NS 6.0 on win2k, and i have to say i was expecting way worse. I'm quite satisfied with the speed. I haven't crashed yet. And i'm pleasantly surprised with some little details (smooth install - checks all the settings from IE, didn't even have to fill in my password in slashdot). Yes, there are bugs. But nothing that annoys me yet.
All in all, i get the feeling that there's NO way that Netscape can "do good". As pointed out before: or people complain they shipped too late (people were saying they wanted an interim version that saved them from 2 years of netscape 4), or they complain that they ship too soon (not all the(important) bugs closed)
I know what an important argument is: if they ship a non-compliant browser, it's another exception that webdesigners have to watch out for.
However, 2 things:
a) webdesigners have to code for exceptions in any case
b) this netscape version atleast provides a very decent subset of the official spec. if you code for it now, it won't crash and burn completely when viewed in the next version.
The question should be: why would somebody want to change how their browser works (change the UI layout, or whatever) when they want to change the appearance of the program? That's the main thing that has always bothered me about 'themes' and 'skins' -- they seem to get appearance and functionality mixed up together. I always want to be able to move the mouse the same amount and hit a button, no matter what it looks like. In any case, that's why I generally completely avoid themes, just sticking with the default or generic 'themes' for any programs I use.
--
How can we continue to believe in a
just universe and freedom to eat crackers if we have no ale?
that's the sound of my normal, everyday breathing.
With any luck, they'll have incorporated all the current Mozilla bug fixes by Netscape Communicator 6.097g Cesium Edition PR1 (Now with HappyChannelBars!(TM)).
Or better, look at it this way: if AOL/Netscape came out tomorrow and announced that AOL 6.0 was going to rely heavily on a major open-source community codebase, would you be excited to use it?
Re:Wait for 6.1! Same goes for Mozilla
by
fedos
·
· Score: 1
Back to Netscape v4.7x again, yes crashes too much but atleast it lasts for 1-2 days before something bad happens.
Until recently, the only reason I had Netscape 4.7 running at all was that I have McAfee CrashMonitor installed and could "Autofix" the immediate, otherwise fatal, crashing of Netscape and the subsequent crashing of that stupid Feedback Agent that I can't seem to turn off.
Then, sometime last week it started loading without a crash. Curioser and curioser.
BTW, does anyone else have that problem where all of a sudden clicking on a link doesn't work anymore and the only way to get them to work is to reboot? This is also 4.7 on Win98.
Re:Crash boom bang! Can't even install this POS
by
lutzomania
·
· Score: 1
from the one that I downloaded from a link in a slashdot story last week? Or is it the same thing but now they've remembered to tell people? Is it worth another 25Mb? I've only played a little, but last week's one seems OK so far...
-- "don't fall into the fallacy of believing that Perl can solve social problems. Maybe Perl 6 can, but that's a ways off"
If there is one single thing that annoys me most about IE it's the damn "Organize Favorites" window. That thing is insane! It's too damn small to work with. You can't resize it. It's a pain to move the bookmarks around. I hate the "Add to Favorites" window too. I like the Netscape "File Bookmark" and "Edit Bookmarks" much much better.
-- It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds. - Captain Hammer
Just FYI, in IE 5.5 on Windows 98 you can resize the "Organize favorites" window. There's no minimize or maximize button, but you can click and drag the edges.
I'm only sure about 5.5 on 98, because that's what I have here in front of me.
-- Unix is mysterious, and ancient, and strong. It's made of cast iron and the bones of heroic programmers of old -
I had problems with Java using the installer that downloads the components form the install (Debian 2.2 x86). So I just downloaded the full version under the./sea directory and java works fine.
surf over to naviscope and grab their accelerator.
it's a great product, small footprint and seems quite stable, and best of all it works as advertised.
it's got excellent filtering options for blocking ads, on a site-by-site basis, and it's other features make it well worth the download
It's more than a browser...
by
jregel
·
· Score: 1
Don't look upon Netscape 6.0 as being just another browser to compete with IE - it's not. Look upon Netscape 6.0 as a first taste of the Mozilla platform. This isn't about the browser war - it's about the internet application platform war, and it's one where Netscape are looking very good. Sure, there are bugs, sure it's slow, but look at the technologies that are being implemented - it's elegant and well thought out.
It's kind of assumed that Slashdot readers appreciate the benefits of an open platform, and Netscape 6.0 shows us what will be. History tells us that these initial problems with speed and crashes will be sorted out in time as fixes are applied and hardware gets faster (I'm not advocating bloated code, but it's a fact that hardware is getting faster).
These are exciting times - Linux finally has a state-of-the-art browser available for the masses.
Damn, that are the products....
by
Duchz
·
· Score: 1
users dislike. buggy and instable. Reasons which finally make the IE from Micro$oft even more popular. Why doesn't Netscape wait until the product is releasable? Just because they heard that IE 6.0 is going to arrive soon? Questions, Questions and I got no answer.
Re:It is nice, but DELETE YOUR OLD PROFILES!!!!
by
cybrthng
·
· Score: 2
I'm running NT Workstation 4.0 SP6 on a PIII 450 with 128 megs of ram and it runs fine.
I also have Oracle Jinitiator running, the oracle enterprise manager and Outlook up. So memory is pegged all'round.
I do get some chugs under big websites like www.absolutesega.com, but Cnn, news,com, slashdot.org, sega.net, oracle.com, metalink.oracle.com all work great!
Hi,
I have been using it since this morning. You can get it directly from
ftp://ftp5.netscape.com/pub/netscape6/english/6. 0/unix/linux22/sea/netscape-i686-pc-linux- gnu-sea.tar.gz
.
I found that everything runs well, and I am replacing my normal netscape with it. It is almost fully configurable, fixes the main bugs with the old netscape (resizing, scrolling) and adds some nice features (dynamic changing of text size using the mouse wheel) as well as being reasonably fast. The few downsides I found were
- memory hog, using about 50 MB of swap now:-/ (128MB RAM)
- stalled once while I was messing around with the configuration.
- cant figure out how to remove/configure the few pixels high bar at the bottom.
I think netscape has done a great job with this, adding in only a few OPTIONAL commercial pieces.
And so far this does seem more stable than the last Mozilla I tried out (M18, not the latest nightly).
I'm typing this using NS 6 Mac, and it seems I'm the only one not having major problems...
The first impression was from the installer, which doesn't use Apple's APIs to draw the controls on the screen. Easily one of the worst bastardizations of the Mac interface to be seen on the Mac. It seems that none of it uses Mac APIs for any control-drawing or standard interaction. Right now, if I double-click a word and drag, first the word is selected but when I drag it switches to selecting by character: nonstandard, crappier behavior. Expect that.
I haven't noticed any glaring visual glitches in my usual sites. However, when I clicked the Slashdot Login nutty little box (it forgot all my cookies, apparently), the entire table element that contained it jumped a little to the left. Unexpected, really incredibly strange (I can't imagine how a bug could cause elements to *jump around* without some kind of aliasing - it erased the space left behind when it moved), but I guess within tolerances. Which sums up my NS6 experience till now - still no crashes.
Page rendering times, btw, are incredible. It beats iCab (and iCab beats IE).
But compared to iCab in other ways, this is falling short. There's no standard Mac interface to be seen, and going back to the old Preferences dialog is pretty sad. Although there's no ad filtering, they were thoughtful enough to add an "image blocking" feature, which gets an entire Preferences tab to itself (and there aren't very many tabs), whose sole purpose is to stop loading of images. Shouldn't there be a menu item for that? Practically no cookie control either - it's either "load" or "don't load". You can tell it to accept all cookies from a certain site by clicking "remember this decision" when it asks you the first time (I think), but I haven't seen where to undo that operation.
Of course, it has the IE-style popup sidebar that iCab (semi-)lacks, but I'm pretty happy without one.
Other Netscape-standard behavior is also a pain. If I type "arstechnica" into the navigation bar, it takes me not to "http://www.arstechnica.com" but to a Netscape Search page that doesn't even list Ars' homepage in the first page of search results. Don't expect any overhauls of this kinda thing, it's mainly a facelift.
But it's an update, and it hasn't crashed on me yet. Although being (relatively) independent of the Mac APIs causes nonstandard behavior, which is a pain, that means that it'll probably be maintained better on our platform than before, also.
And it DOESN'T INSTALL ANY EXTENSIONS INTO THE SYSTEM FOLDER! This is the reason I'll be keeping it on my HD as an update to NS4.7 - IE is not for me. And iCab (although less frequently than ever) sometimes doesn't cut it.
Fsck this hard drive! Although it probably won't work...
foo = bar/*myPtr;
Get a Windows UI compliant Netscape 6 skin...
by
Nailer
·
· Score: 1
Here. Download the Native Windows skin for an IE like, Win32 standard interface.
This isn't to say that MSN Explorer uses a standard interface, or provides the option to. In fact, it somehow uses the IE rendering engine to render pages differently from IE. Cute:-)
And after downloading the 35 meg or so for all the installer files, the installer crashed. I wasn't expecting it to be bug-free, but come on!
Don't think I'll even bother again until 6.1
Debian Mozilla packages in stable
by
Jeppe+Salvesen
·
· Score: 1
In a related story, Debian has moved M18-3 into the stable distribution. Apt'ers - on your marks, set, go!
--
Stop the brainwash
Now to quickly leap into action!
by
ackthpt
·
· Score: 2
And wait about 6 months for all the bugs (well, a bunch anyway) to be eradicated, eradication bugs eradicated and word to leak out that it's actually worth getting due to some nifty new feature.
--
--
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
I've been working on a page that makes fairly heavy use of CSS, particularly the notoriously buggy "float" and "clear" functions. It looks like shit in IE 5 or NS 4.7 (and crashes NS 4.5, so watch out).
NS 6, M18 and IE 5.5 all render it quite nicely. However, Gecko takes a little under ten seconds to render it from my hard drive. IE takes a little under two. That's a pretty bad gap. And I suspect that ordinary users, who don't care about standards compliance or open source, are going to be even less patient with it than I am.
To paraphrase Gerald Weinberg, if it doesn't have to produce the correct result, I can write an HTML renderer that renders it much faster than IE5 or NS4.7!
I got pretty much the minimum download. I notice now that when I run N6, I have a java console icon in my systray (on WinNT4). Dunno why they did this, but everything seems good, renders pages fast. Stupid AOL icon got deleted immediately.
--
"We apologize for the inconvenience."
It is nice, but DELETE YOUR OLD PROFILES!!!!
by
cybrthng
·
· Score: 4
Netscape 6.0 is amazingly fast/smooth under Windows NT. They did a good job to get it out, but it still has its bugs.
The *MOST* Important thing to do is remove *ANY* old mozillareg.dat's, and OLD Netscape Beta profiles and any old stale files.
I had an old profile that it upgraded, but everything just acted goofy, crashed, or rendered wrong (don't know why). After deleting the old profiles and creating a new one everything runs MUCH better, LOOKS much better and doesn't act goofy.
I'm glad they released this one. Its good to have a product they can get contsructive criticism from as well as build a foundation from. Better to ship now to get the product out then delay another 32 months to bloat it.
Re:It is nice, but DELETE YOUR OLD PROFILES!!!!
by
gsf
·
· Score: 1
Indeed, it is leaking memory amazingly fast, and smooth too.
Re:It is nice, but DELETE YOUR OLD PROFILES!!!!
by
cybrthng
·
· Score: 2
In the address field of your browser, type in "about:mozilla". In Netscape, you see this weird scripture:
"And the beast shall come forth surrounded by a roiling cloud of vengeance. The house of the unbelievers shall be razed and they shall be scorched to the earth. Their tags shall blink until the end of days.
from The Book of Mozilla, 12:10"
In Internet Explorer, going to "about:mozilla" results in a totally blank page with a blue (#000080) background, reminiscent of the BSOD. This is a pun at how Netscape crashes all the time.
-- "Ancillary does not mean you get to rule the world." --U.S. Circuit Judge Harry Edwards, speaking to the FCC's lawyer
Yeah, and here's the HTML code that they generate for "about:mozilla":
Well, I'm sure that a piddly little easter egg like that went through years and years of extensive quality control, because - as we all know - the ability to type "about:mozilla" is an essential part of using ANY kind of browser.
It's kind of sad to go to Netscape's home page and see that a news story about the Florida election battles has better page placement than an announcement about a major new version of their flagship product. Well, that is, if they still consider Communicator to be their flagship product.
I couldn't write this before, because it warned me that changing my theme would cause my post to be lost.
There are two themes included with this install, Modern (the default) and Classic. Modern isn't too ugly, it's very round. Not Mac-y, but I can put up with it.
Classic is a knockoff of Apple's standard theme. It's supposed to be indiscriminable, but it's obviously a fake. Scroll bars have an arrow on each end and a proportional tab - an impossibility unless you've used a shareware tool to customize your theme. The accent color (used for scroll tabs etc.) is PURPLE. Yuck.
And, dashing my only real hope for it, it doesn't restore standard Mac behavior to the text boxes. Damn.
I forgot one thing in the previous post: the page source display doesn't format the HTML based on tags or anything. It's all plain black. Got some catchin' up with iCab to do there....
Fsck this hard drive! Although it probably won't work...
foo = bar/*myPtr;
6 for Mac, in a word, Blows. In a few more words..
by
Xel
·
· Score: 2
I just got finished uninstalling Netscape 6 after 5 hours of crashes, improperly displayed web pages, slow slow SLOW load times (on a PowerMac G4), and a poorly designed, kludgy interface that takes up far too much screen real estate (even on my 21" display). The Netscape window has more buttons, widgets, links and arrows than a Rube Goldberg nightmare. Common fonts such as Times don't display correctly, all my AOL Instant Messenger preferences were hosed, I couldnt customize my bookmarks list and the preferences window ALONE had more bugs than I've found in Windows ME and Apple OS X combined. I'm sticking with IE.
-- "Eagles may soar, but weasels dont get sucked into jet engines."
Re:Its been out a couple days.
by
linuxgod
·
· Score: 1
2x as many people are running Linux that visit the site.
Your an idiot. Look at the stats kept by the database.
Yoru a looser.
ETRN x
Non-Standard release...
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 1
When MS was playing catch-up they did the evil "Embrace and Extend". Part 1 of assimilation is to overtake the functioning standard (i.e.: what every page is designed for). Part 2 is to pay lip-service to the academic standard (i.e.: what the geeks have said should be in the product). Part 3 is to extend the standard (new functionality not in the competitors product or in the academic standard.
Let's evaluate Netscape on how well it meets the standards (1 and 2 as described above).
Does it meet the functional standard: Many (as much as over 50%) of the pages on the web are designed to take advantage of the browser in domination today. Much the same as it was when Netscape was the functional standard some years ago. IE wrested the crown from Netscape not only from living longer but also from out-performing Netscape in the basice of Netscape 2.0 (and then 3.0 -- by 4.X NS was largely irrelevant) compatability -- I remember long hours of de-bugging JavaScript between releases of Netscape (minor bug-fix releases) that were finally alleviated when we switched our acid tests to IE which although not perfect was more consistent. Now the standard that NS6 has to meet and beat is IE 5.0. Does Netscape do formatting basic scripting, etc. as good as or better than IE5.5 when compared to IE5.0? NO A quick check of a few JavaScript layouts proves the point (JavaScript.COM, GNUFLY, or most any other web site with commonly published JavaScript will point out some major issues -- NS6.0 does not meet the standard). Knowing I'm going to catch a ton of flack from open sourcers out there I need to point out: Linux based users are not the functional standard. IE5.X is on Windows or Mac. This is based on usage, market penetration, and relevance. This standard is listed first because it is the most pertinent -- i.e.: if Netscape cannot redeem itself on this standard or so strongly meet or beat 2 and 3 then it will not survive. The simple fact is: NS6.0 is not compatible with the entrenched standard.
As to standard #2 above -- waiting to hear back from you all on this one. My limited impression is that it may be closer to the academic standard which will make a real difference in the future for those who build their sites to that standard (and not the functional standard as defined above).
On the third point -- Extend -- any product, even if it does not meet/beat the standard in points one and two, can gain significant market share, if not the market by significantly extending either the functional standard or the academic standard. Question: does NS6.0 do this? What new significant feature does NS6.0 have that will force users to use it?
Re:Its been out a couple days.
by
linuxgod
·
· Score: 1
2 bad it w0n't let y0u post 2x within 1 minute.
We all know your black.
ETRN x
Get the Native Windows skin
by
Nailer
·
· Score: 1
* Netscape Gecko(tm) engine * gets rid of the XP widgets * the XP interface * dolls it up to look all cool-and-draggy like IE5 [well, uses an IE like UI with similar icons]
* Releases a strong Mac, Unix and Win32 version, all under the GPL [you can use it on multiple platforms]
It misses this one:
* makes it do all those cool geeky banner/doubleclick elimination features [not yet - that's not UI stuff]
I'm not going to load some dang theme. Why? If you want native widgets, others might want pixel for pixel compatibility across all platforms. MSN Explorer doesn't use Native widghets. Furthermore it can't render pages IE can, despite using the same rendering engine.
I want the interface to get the hell out of my way so I can use the browser. Me too. But since we want different interfaces, thank God the lovely Netscape people have provided this funcationality.
The best thing about IE5 is that in 5 seconds from the default install, I can customize it exactly how I want it - small and out of my face. No menus to navigate, just clickin' and draggin. On the other hand, if I wanted everything big and out in front with a big ol' "go" button, I could do that too. It's not about whether it's possible to change things around or not in Moz, it's about whether it's more convenient that it is in IE5. And it isn't.
I disagree. There are more mouse clicks involved in changing the IE UI, spread across so many menus, compared to the bliss of clicking on a.xpi file and having it download and install immediately. The latter is also much easier for new users.
100% standards compliance is a dumb idea. All I want is a browser that loads fast, runs fast, has a brilliant non-interface, is reasonably standards compliant, loaded up with geeky features (tucked away for joeschmoe yet still easy to find and use, of course) with a small memory footprint. I thought this was the promise of Mozilla, but I guess I was wrong.
Netscape 6 CDs in Time-Warner magazines
by
Robin+Lionheart
·
· Score: 1
A
news.com article reports that AOL will soon be mass distributing Netscape 6 on CDs in numerous magazines owned by Time-Warner. Great, the faster sooner users replace their Netscape 4.x installations, the better. Alas, I'll still have to cater to 4.x till 2002, but I look forward to dancing on 4.x's grave.
The weird thing is, there was at least one build I downloaded where I swore the borders disappeared... and I thought to myself, "Damn, that looks a lot better..." And a few days later they were back again. *sigh*
Or maybe I'm just crazy.
Re:Wait for 6.1! - Found a bug already.
by
dat00ket
·
· Score: 2
I don't suppose anyone's gotten it to work in windows 98 with two monitors?
For me it works fine if it's on the primary display, but if it's on the secondary display the menus and buttons don't work.
I've only been using the 6.0 release for about fifteen minutes now, and have noticed that some of the GUI items are broken (setting a theme in Preferences doesn't allow you to click "OK" to get out, among others) and that my Logitech MouseMan's scroll wheel no longer works.
Other than that, I haven't crashed it, and it seems to deal with odd Java and Javascript well enough. It's better for me than MSIE, but not quite as good as iCab.
6.1 should be better, once they get around to bonking the marketroids' skulls who thought that an earlier release with some bugs would be better than a better release a little later...
Seems like there is no support in the final NS6 for MathML? See this link for the tex V MML demo page. Anyone know what the plan is here?
Re:Internut Exploder vs. Nutscrape Nab-a-gator!
by
Dyolf+Knip
·
· Score: 1
Price/Performance: Mozilla
Funny, I don't recall ever having had to pay for IE. And there's an awful lot of posts here about how poorly NS6 is running.
1. I hate the MS juggernaut.
2. I really want Netscape (in spite of the fact that the evil Steve Case owns it) to offer a viable alternative to IE.
3. Netscape 6 is awful.
4. I am the webmaster for nsia.org
The site works with IE 4+
The site works with NN 4.75
It does NOT work with N6. I don't know why and I don't care. Whether it is problems with layers or images maps. I don't care.
5. I love the Java applets from OpenCube.com
They have a new one out called Dynamic Image Menu. They say: works with IE. Yes. it does. It sort of works with NN 4.75. It doesn;t even LOAD with N6.
6. I really want N6 to succeed. But, this is ridiculous. Two sites. Two failures.
7. I give up.,dave
-- Dave Barnes
5 breweries within 6 blocks of my house
First impressions, CSS conmpliance and SSL probs.
by
Fross
·
· Score: 2
So it's there. i download it. 20 megs. not too bad considering (note, i didnt get mail, news, or half the plugins.) Nice installer.
Boot it up, loads quite quickly. Go to Slashdot, looks okay. the Gecko engine is showing its stuff, very nice indeed.
Go to news.bbc.co.uk. Not bad. again fast rendering.
Go to an e-commerce site that uses CSS and SSL quite extensively. this works on NS 4.75 and IE5.5 very well, i use it every day.
Netscape 6's handling of CSS is even worse than 4.75, from what i can tell. sometimes it even stops rendering CSS from a linked file halfway through the page. and when viewing pages under SSL, it is SO slow it is unreal.
This looks like a particularly buggy mosaic milestone with AOL tags bunched on it. i will wait for a 6.x release i hear good things about, but nothing until then.
Fross
THAT'S THE FUCKING LAST STRAW!!!
by
Kilzall
·
· Score: 1
I see exactly where you're coming from. That's/. for you. Post a meaningful and informative anecdote that is on topic and provides a good example of a buggy product, and get nailed because that product happens to be linux.
Hey moderators, here's some flamebait for you:
I tried recently Mandrake 7 and found out that it chugs the proverbial cock when it comes to reliability, usability, and speed. I finally got it to install on an 8 GB partition, and it ran at about 1/5 the speed of win98 (no sound, no modem). From this standpoint, I have to say that windows is a superior OS when it comes to anything but running a server. The problems with my sound card were a mystery, but the modem is a winmodem which I would never give up for a new OS. These so-often-insulted modems achieve up/down speeds and pings that blow other modems out of the water. $15 gets you a modem that downloads compressed files at 8 KB/s and has a ping of 95ms (to get the ping time, I telneted into a unix box and pinged myself, so don't blame the dos ping command). You people sicken and frighten me with your self righteousness because you embody everything that is wrong with the software industry and society in general.
Ahh, I needed that. I'd keep ranting, but your mothers are particularly horny tonight and they're getting impatient. Bye-eee!
The instant messenger, talk about crap! Who's been smoking crack talking up java? Cryminee.
The uninstall was very quick, I was amazed.
I was also amazed when I tested my association by doing a start->run http://www.someurl.com, to get "Unable to locate NETSCP6.EXE".
What a load of crap. I had to hack it out of the registry. Fortunately, the install didn't touch my 4.76 install. That's one good thing. Plus, when I scrolled real fast, I didn't get the java phantom.
Yawn.
--
"Would it kill you to put down the toilet seat?" -- Maya Angelou
Quite interesting -- it was Internet Explorer 5.5 that was showing the cached version, even though it's supposed to expire the cache whenever I restart the browser--I'd just started the browser and loaded/. when I saw the news.
I'd be surprised if MS was deliberately making that page in IE5.5 show an old version, so I'm going to assume that it had to be propogated to all the netscape servers.
False.
Mozilla DOES do syntax highlighting.
It's just a has-to-be-documented-but-not-yet feature.
See this bug Just add this line to your prefs.js
user_pref("browser.view_source.syntax_highlight",t rue);
-- Guvf vf abg n EBG zrffntr
Its been out a couple days.
by
linuxgod
·
· Score: 1
Ya, its already showing up on the webserver logs.
"Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; m18) Gecko/20001108 Netscape6/6.0"
ETRN x
Re:Its been out a couple days.
by
linuxgod
·
· Score: 1
While NS6 (and Mozilla, for that matter) use Gecko and certainly display/load HMTL more quickly than NS4.x, I can't escape a general impression of sluggishness.
As I interact with the app (not the HTML it displays), everything updates s-l-o-w-l-y. Go into the Preferences menu, and click on one of the sections on the left. Wait a half-second, and then watch it rebuild the right pane. This is the browser of the future?
I like fast HTML as much as the next guy, and Gecko rocks, but until they can get NS6 to not feel so godawful fatiguing, I'm going back to 4.76.
Re:Geck! (Simulated barf sound)
by
DigiDog
·
· Score: 1
Hey.. a 24Mb download and N6 won't even run! It keeps giving me an invalid page fault in FONTMANAGER.DLL at 014f:502032cf. This is part of the Java 2 stuff installed by N6.
(Celeron 366, 128Mb ram, Win95)
Bah!
DigiDog
Netscape 6 : Its Release :: Linux 2.4 : Test-10
by
Cardhore
·
· Score: 1
Releasing Mozilla 18 as Netscape 6 is akin to releasing Linux 2.4.0-test10 as 2.4.0. They're just not ready. In other news, Glibc 2.2 has been released containing the result of one year's development on the library.
Personally, I am stuck with Netscape 4.7 and probably will be for a very long time. Why? Because I don't want a browser that looks like the 6 o'clock news! I like the way things used to be, when people used UNIX and in particular Motif. Yes, I'm a Motif fan, because I like things to get to the point, get the job done, and be as austere, professional, and efficient as possible. I can't stand the way Linux has turned the formerly respectable UNIX world--a world in which rock solid big iron runs satellites and life-critical medical equipment--into a world where UNIX companies are adopting desktops that make college students drool because of their k3wl graphical effects. It's sickening.
If development had been focused on top quality, professionalism, and usability, rather than translucent windows and pictures of naked women, we would by this time have a browser entirely based on Motif and using ToolTalk for all its media translation services. We'd be living in an Open Systems (but not necessarily open source) world with truly usable software, not shit like Mozilla.
I want to be able to actually USE my software, I don't care if it "looks cool"!
And no, this is not a troll, I'm tired of getting moderated down as a troll because I don't like the dumbass trendy look of things like GTK and Qt.
Although I don't agree with all you say (Mozilla has a lot better functionality than NN4.7 does, and crashes less, at least until I "upgraded" to using
PSM so I can finally have https:// URLs work.
I don't agree with the Motif thing. As a toolkit, Motif sucked, and it was ugly. Unstable, bloated and a bitch to program in. New UI features (like Microsquishie combo-boxes) that added functionality were slow in coming.
I do 100% agree with the pretty-GUI syndrome that's taken over what's called GUI design these days. If it's themable, it's cool. You can spend 20 minutes trying to find a theme that you can read through. Blue text on dark woodgrain may sound like a good idea at first, but just try using it first. Mozilla chrome even goes past this by allowing you to change the UI. Put the buttons anywhere. Terrible for usability.
there's a programmers editor that allows you to have a pixmap as a background for your text window. One of the big features of the product in fast. Do I really want to try reading through this when I can easily waste a couple hours on a bad semi-colon placement? Nedit has no such feature, but has (most) of what I need in an editor, and is one of the first things I install on a new box.
I have a browser, and so do you, or you wouldn't be reading this. Mine displays web pages and does hyperlinks, and apparently so does yours.
Mine runs for more than 5 minutes without crashing, doesn't have memory leaks, and doesn't take longer to render the page than it does to suck it through the modem. I hope yours also accomplishes all those things, too.
Why would I "upgrade" to NS6, if it means breaking all the important things I depend on? Would it be for the sake of standards compliance? Or so I could get that nice warm fuzzy open-source feeling? NS6 gives open source a bad name. "Release early, release often" doesn't mean to release a pre-alpha and call it a beta, or to put out an alpha and call it a release version.
The only minor complaints I have about my current browser (NS 4.72 on MacOS 9) would be fixed by changing to iCab or Opera, not NS6. But those complaints (lousy Java runtime and slow startup) just aren't important enough to motivate me to switch.
Re:Wait for 6.1! Same goes for Mozilla
by
skepticult
·
· Score: 1
I have this problem all the time under
linux. The only way I've found to deal
with it is to forcibly kill all open
netscape processes, remove the lock file,
and start it back up again.
...downloading as I type.
Seems quite fast (80K/s) , off the official servers (Default servers no less). Of course, I am on a T3 so...
Re:Mozilla and Secure Transactions
by
crumley
·
· Score: 4
What OS are you using mozilla on? If its Linux
or Windows, its really easy to add SSL support.
Under the Debug Menu, choose Install PSM. Then
follow the directions on the page that you get
taken to.
--
-- Preventive War is like committing suicide for fear of death. - Otto Von Bismarck
Why this was the right move for Netscape
by
Xiphoid+Process
·
· Score: 1
Though there are many still outstanding bugs, and NS6 is missing some features for full standards compliance, but still this was a very good move for Netscape, and really all of us who want open standards to prevail.
Right now, NS6 is Good Enough (tm) to win back many of the Netscape faithfull and M$ protestors (me included) who unfortunately were forced into using Ie due to the overwhealming crappiness of NS4.7. That brower was pathetic in comparison. NS6 really has closed the gap. And in terms of the whiz-bang factor has leapfrogged miles ahead, which, stupid or not, is an important consideration to many people. By doing this, NS will win back their hardcore following in addition to the many software users who just want the latest coolest thing. They will not obliterate Ie with this release (maybe 6.3;-P) but they DO keep themselves relevent. And everyone knows NS is really teetering on the edge or irrelevence. So Props to Netscape.
Now lets hope that 6.1, with full standards compliance comes out really soon. Though in all seriousness, i am shocked as to how much faster and more stable NS6 is than M18.
40mb download? Get lost
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 1
How exactly do they expect people with ordinary
phone line modems download something of this size?
Sure , in the states you get free local calls to your ISP. Everywhere else in the world you don't
and I don't fancy tying up my phone line for 5 hours downloading a bloody browser! How in gods
name can a browser be 40megs?? Thats the size of
a small OS! All it has to do is render HTML and
run Java/Javascript and a few other miscellanious
things! Jesus Christ...
If you took the time to understand what Mozilla can do, and how its built up. You would see that it is a lot more than a browser, I mean *A LOT*.
Mozilla is a browser, an irc client, a ftp client, a news reader, a development platform (komodo), a web authoring tool. It's not only a browser, it's an application framework.
A Monsterous Disappointment
by
kenrokuen
·
· Score: 1
Running Net6 on a MacOS9 Machine has been a monsterous disappointment. It fails to load simple DHTML objects that 4.7 could handle with ease. You choose Edit-preferences and wait and wait and wait and CRASH! A full third of the web pages that look fine in Net4.7 are BROKEN in Net6. What a hunk of junk! Why did they release this piece of trash? I hope the browser works better for linux users, than for Mac People.
-- Errors are necessary for the universe to work, perfection is stagnation.
64 megs of ram minimun to run????? Whats the deal with that??? roche
--
roche
Bah Humbug!
Where's the LDAP support for email?
by
yomahz
·
· Score: 1
Our company uses a huge LDAP database which has been nice for the auto-completed email's in both IE and Netscape 4.x's. It also let's me lookup users phone numbers, managers name, etc., etc.
It seems that the directory service box has been totally left out of NS6's preferences which seems a bit odd since Netscape is the creator of LDAP (right?).
--
A mind is a terrible thing to taste.
-- "A mind is a terrible thing to taste."
Re:Where's the LDAP support for email?
by
m3000
·
· Score: 1
Yep, there is no LDAP in N6. ZDnet had an article about it the other day, you might want to search there for some more info on it.
While NS6 (and Mozilla, for that matter) use Gecko and certainly display/load HMTL more quickly than NS4.x, I can't escape a general impression of sluggishness.
As I interact with the app (not the HTML it displays), everything updates s-l-o-w-l-y. Go into the Preferences menu, and click on one of the sections on the left. Wait a half-second, and then watch it rebuild the right pane. This is the browser of the future?
I like fast HTML as much as the next guy, and Gecko rocks, but until they can get NS6 to not feel so godawful fatiguing, I'm going back to 4.76.
not all programs change the interface to display a theme or skin... winamp compatible skins are only bitmap images that sit on top of the interface to give it a polished look. I wish I knew who thought of this skin idea first (nullsoft?), but I thought nullsoft added a great feature to allow people to design skins for their program.
Re:What a piece of crap!!!
by
papason
·
· Score: 1
Works fine under SuSE 7.0 for me. Haven't had any issues today under Win2000 or Linux at the office.
As a free browser, I'm very happy they made all the improvements.
Re:Internut Exploder vs. Nutscrape Nab-a-gator!
by
Dyolf+Knip
·
· Score: 1
Furthermore, you _can_ specify the editor to use in IE. I just finished setting mine to UltraEdit.
You'll want to use "wget -r". I would offer the files via FTP, but my college's sysadmin is firewall-anal-retentive.
-- We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from the machinations of the wicked.
Re:Mozilla and Secure Transactions
by
tialaramex
·
· Score: 1
Well, given that "click on the 'make SSL work' button" is too hard for you, it may be some time.
Probably a month or two before the Free Software SSL implementation is polished and bolted on to the Mozilla core.
Meanwhile, find someone real smart and ask them to help you click the button. There, much better isn't it.
(No kidding, there really IS a button which does that, thanks to the wonders of XPinstall)
Dammit. It doesn't work with all the Javascript I had to write for a site. NS sucks. I already had to code a couple hundred lines just for NS for v4.7 would work somewhat.
Somebody please tell me that my code no longer works because they actually extended the object model and I don't have to jump through those stupid hoops to make a cell change it's background color on the fly!
Lack of PAC a REALLY big problem
by
spankyzone
·
· Score: 1
I don't know about you, but the exclusion of full PAC (Proxy Auto-Configuration) support is a big negative for Netscape 6 and Mozilla. What was AOL/Netscape thinking in releasing this browser like this (one of many things that statement could apply to).
Many, MANY larger institutions (ISP's, corporations, educational facilities) use the PAC's to configure browsers across the board (since IE and NS 4.x both support the proxy standard completely). What is even more peculiar is that Netscape set the standard for the autoconfiguration syntax in the first place.
Reading bugzilla, it appears that much work has to be done in implementing how PAC's worked in the first place with regards to JS wrappers and functions (which most of the important ones are depreciated!). I find this a real issue and a big cause of the lack of adoption for these browsers.
is now functional for Linux users! Well done guys! --
-- .defuncrc
Watch out for installing on Macintosh
by
marick
·
· Score: 1
A friend of mine is running Mac OS9 on an IMac and Netscape 6's installer (by default) put >300 files on his desktop. Not just icons, either - mostly XUL files!
Has anybody else seen this behavior? Is it because the root directory on the Mac is the desktop?
Links Panel for NS6/Mozilla
by
hodeleri
·
· Score: 2
Re:I think its pretty darn GOOD...:)
by
pauldy
·
· Score: 1
I'm just wondering if you use this product of have even tryed to use it yet. We've have now crashed it on linux win 98 win 2k and nt. I have not been able to change the start page or hit some of the most basic sites that contain javascript or dhtml. Now I would expect a release that either didn't support them at all and didn't crash but one that just up and opens a casket everytime you try and do anything real world in it. So while I think there may be people complaining just to complain there are also a lot of people who know what they are talking about and spending time integrating aim into the browser and some of he other for lack of a better word junk into it which does work well they haven't focused on what people who use netscape for browsing the web.
It's great that they put something out.. they really had to. Now lets hope that they can put the service updates, etc. very quickly.
Congradulations to the Mozilla team for the hard work.:) I won't be using Netscape, just mozilla myself.. but it's a great step for a beaten-up team.
--------------------
Re:Internut Exploder vs. Nutscrape Nab-a-gator!
by
maren
·
· Score: 1
Let's add some entries to that list of yours.
* Open Source: Mozilla
* Extensibility: Mozilla
* Platform support: Mozilla
* Price/Performance: Mozilla
* Skin/Theme Support: Mozilla
* Developing fun-factor: Mozilla
* Third party add-ons: Mozilla (Chatzilla, Komodo, ForumZilla, JabberZilla, AIM)
As for the HTML Source option, hell, implement it yourself. Could you do that with IE?
Look at http://lxr.mozilla.org/seamonkey/source/xpcom/test s/utils/io.js
For a starter to how to use files from JS.
Mozilla XUL/XBL/JS is fun. Making XPCOM components is fun. I wish GNOME had nice C++ support.
Java 1.3 works right out of the box on NS6
by
mikael
·
· Score: 1
As stated above, Java 1.3 is installed by default on NS6.
I have not had it to work with any nightly build of mozilla.
Here's my story: I'm running W2KSP1 here at work on an Athlon 800/256mb. I ran the setup file, it downloaded everything, then quit halfway through the install with "Error occurred during installation: -214 DOES_NOT_EXIST"
Tried it twice more with the same results.
Oh, well, at least their error message makes a lot of sense.;)
I'll try the Linux version when I get home, but I'm not holding my breath.
Cheers.....
Re:Wait for 6.1! Same goes for Mozilla
by
shepd
·
· Score: 1
If you're desprate, try right clicking the links and opening them in a new window (or single middle click in X).
I've found that after selecting too much text, too many times, from netscape it won't let you click links anymore also. But otherwise, it works fine (as long as you open the links in new windows).
Strange...
-- If you could be told what you can see or read, then it follows that you could be told what to say or think - BoC
Internut Exploder vs. Nutscrape Nab-a-gator!
by
AFCArchvile
·
· Score: 2
Who will win?
Memory Usage: IE
Time to execute (time between execution and viable appearance of the window): IE
Java features: Netscape
Java speed: IE (they did tweak Java for speed and stability when they made Microsoft VM)
HTML Source options: IE (IE opens the source in Notepad; Netscape just shows it to you)
Minimum of invasive advertising: IE (Netscape installs the AOL icon by default; at least IE doesn't hawk MSN on its users)
Stability: IE
So the winner in functionality is IE; however, use what you like; browsers ARE a matter of personal preference.
-- "Ancillary does not mean you get to rule the world." --U.S. Circuit Judge Harry Edwards, speaking to the FCC's lawyer
Re:Internut Exploder vs. Nutscrape Nab-a-gator!
by
jedrek
·
· Score: 1
HTML Source options: IE (IE opens the source in Notepad; Netscape just shows it to you)
One of this things I absolutely hate about IE is a lack of developer-friendy options. Netscape is much better about it.
When I do a 'view source' I want to SEE the source. I don't want to edit it. I just want to hit CTRL-U and see it in all it's glory. Hell, Netscape will even highlight more glaring syntax errors in the code.
When I view an image I like being able to see it's actual size. I like how I can view info about a page and see all it's dependencies. And I just love how when I right click on something the menu shows up right away, not after 10s.
Of course, this all pertains to Netscape 4.x because the 6.0 I just downloaded *blows*. Crashed on my 5 times, including 2 crashes while changing the skin.
Be sure to grab some themes at Netscape Theme Park, as well as here. I am using the new Orbit theme, and Sky Pilot. Both themes react very well, and make browsing a lot of fun.
mozilla must run in forground
by
mikemulvaney
·
· Score: 1
This is just my experience, so YMMV.
When running mozilla, you must run the mozilla executable in the foreground. I usually open up a new xterm, type 'mozilla', and then minimize that window.
If I run 'mozilla &', it will fail just like said.
Mike
Re:My Favorite Bug Of them all
by
spectecjr
·
· Score: 1
By what standard? Grow up asshole.
By the Windows standards. There's a reason they pass in a ShowWindow parameter which says how the window should display.
I see not proxy settings under Linux...
by
ondelette
·
· Score: 1
But I saw something under Win32 though and it did work, but the installation still failed "cannot find a file on server"...
Re:PSM problems with netscape 6
by
m3000
·
· Score: 1
I think you have to make sure the psm directory where you installed N6 is writable by the user.
[offtopic] quicktime files
by
maarten_delft
·
· Score: 1
>> (unlike a few others, like Quicktime).
It's real easy to do this yourself.
Just save the following files:
\progra~1\quickt~1\*.*
And in \windows\system:
.\QuickTime\*.*
.\Quick*.*
.\*.qtx
Registering the components, file types etc. is done using the QuickTime cpl.
Just my 0.02 cts for the curious..
--Maarten
-- --[rosso bright]--
I'll see it once and for all: Mozilla is crap
by
ondelette
·
· Score: 1
It is the same crap as Netscape. The exact same bugs and performance issues.
Re:Wait for 6.1! - Found a bug already.
by
CondeZer0
·
· Score: 1
Please DON'T post Netscape bugs in Bugzilla!
Bugzilla is already too spamed with Netscape bugs:(
Bugzilla is *only* for Mozilla bugs, please understand that Netscape is based on a *very old* version of Mozilla, and probably they even introduced more bugs in it. If you found a bug in NS test it on the last Mozilla Nightly before posting it to Bugzilla. Thanks!
Best regards
Uriel
- - - - - -
-- "When in doubt, use brute force." Ken Thompson
Whatever happened with roaming access?
by
ondelette
·
· Score: 1
It had a few bugs, but nothing out of the ordinary for a x.0 release. It installed two different versions of the Java Runtime (1.3.0 and 1.3.0_xxxx). And it has already crashed once. But that isn't so unexpected. Much better than 4.0 was! I'm sure it will get a lot better with time.
My 2 bits: Why can't Netscape allow drag-and-drop favorites like Explorer? They've stolen most of the other good ideas, but this is one of the big reasons why I like Explorer. It is much easier to just drag a shortcut up to the menu bar than it is to add a shortcut, then edit shortcuts to put it where you want it.
Then it would be nice (although I can see good reasons, such as Unix compatibility) to handle the middle mouse button like most other Windows apps (scrolling).
-- Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
...the widgets on Linux are Windows style. If I wanted windows that's what I'd be using.
-- Accept Eris as your Fnord and personally sate her
Geck! (Simulated barf sound)
by
piecewise
·
· Score: 1
Just downloaded NS6 for my Mac. Wow. Quite an... interesting product. Thing is, I hate it. It's a bloated mass of browser. Resource hungry. Slow. And I can't decide if it's really sleak or horribly ugly. I like the idea of Themes, but Netscape has decided to completely disreguard Mac UI guidelines.
I hate IE5 on my Windows machine, but IE5 for the Mac is great. It's small, efficient, easy on the eyes, and great with web standards.
So far, NS isn't doing so well..
I've followed Gecko and Mozilla for about 10 years now (well it seems like it), and I've never been terribly enthused. They just don't got it.. and I have a feeling AOL is partially to blame.
I *love* the idea of an integrated AIM, but other than that.. blow!
Ok, I gotta get out of this browser before i go crazy...
Chris.
-- The next comment I write will be ready soon, but subscribers can beat the rush and see it early!
Re:Wait for 6.1! Same goes for Mozilla
by
MadAndy
·
· Score: 1
When clicking on a link doesn't work, I've found it's almost always because Netscape has a dialog box up somewhere asking a question. Usually it's been hidden behind something else - you often have to click on another Netscape window or minimise and restore before it'll be visible.
On my PIII-733 with RedHat 6.2 I couldn't help but notice that Netscape's use crept up from 80 to 300+ Mb !!! Thank god I didn't try running this on a smaller system.
For now, I think I'm gonna stick to 4.7x thank you.
-- No electrons were harmed sending this message.
Wait,... maybe a few.
I have never liked the fact that Netscape and now
Mozilla try to do more than just a browser. What Mozilla should have done is trash the extra junk, news/email, and focused on the browser aspect.
Whatever happened to the philosophy, do one thing
well?
Memory usage seems to be system dependent.
by
bkosse
·
· Score: 2
But, like I said, I'm just glad I'm no longer using 150 MB of memory. Yech.
Of course, I've upgraded (yes, a huge upgrade for Linux users, at least) to the 11/16/2000 (21) build of Mozilla. Wow it's a massive improvement over standard Netscape.
Slashdot Mirror
Has anyone else noticed this?
"Netscape 6 License, Section 14: Miscellaneous, part q:
Licensor may use Licensee's name in any customer reference list or in any press release issued by Licensor regarding the licensing of the Product and/or provide Licensee's name and the names of the Product licensed by Licensee to third parties."
The incorrect implementation of SSL was a known issue in PR3. In the release version this works fine.
I install it at work on Windows NT but I took it off because of IE and Netscape was fighting over who wanted to load up what so I took it off. That and my profile that I upload to the network got to big and I couldn't change where to put the files. I have install here at home on Windows 2K and I do like it. It could be because I have a lot of ram(224MB) or it could be that I like that fact that Netscape is more into Java and not VB/ ActiveX controls. I was a big fan of Netscape back in the days and I hate how IE took me by storm. Why? Because it started coming with Windows and after a while downloading Netscape on a 56k was pointless when you have IE 5.0 on your computer.
The pages load up fast(for me anyways) and I do like that fact that it do have skins. I say compare to the new MSN browser I like NS 6 better. I feel that I could be one of them people that report bugs and stuff. So I will set back and surf the web with it, besides I miss Netscape. Long as it can load Java and Flash then I'm okay. If a web site that I want to go to real bad doesn't come up right then I'll just start up IE.
As for my Linux boot I will still install NS 6, but like I said I still will start up something diffirent if or when a web page doesn't come up right. I figure that AOL/Netscape is trying, I'm not going to down them or flame them for that. Some people just go on how much they hate it, but it's one thing I always say. If you don't like it then don't use it. If you like it in someway and you want to help then get active and see what you can do. Don't just flame them, hell if you go to Help>Feekback Center... I'm just thinkin' but they will listen.
That's all I have to say now... Just speaking my mind...I am open up to be flamed.
From Zero to Hero... Starbuck Zero
Well, do you own a legit version of windows? If so I assume you paid for it, and as IE is part of windows, you paid for it as well :)
Yes, I'm aware of that you can run IE (slow, buggy, weird) under Solaris, although I'm not familiar with licensing issues in that case.
A lot of people seem to think that IE, IS and other hideously-named MS products bundled with different MS Operating System are free.
Having used it for the sum total of an hour, I have to agree.
It doesn't seem to display a single web page. Most pages come up blank. It seems even more stupid that netscape.com doesn't display...
The app takes about 10 seconds on my iBook (G3/466) to fire up. Totally unacceptable.
I've been using Communicator 4.7x for what seems like an eternity. I think I'll stick with it.
This is a real slap in the face for Mac users. This product in my opinion is a total turkey. If you can't actually use it to browse, what's the point. This also seems ironic, because most Mac users were the ones who stood by Netscape as it's market share got munched into by IE. Quite frankly, I think that IE is a better browser (lower memory usage too), but as I'm lazy and like one application to handle everything, I'll stick with Nutscoop 4.7x.
Finally, I can't seem to get rid of that initial customisation window that comes up.
Netscape has shot itself in the foot bigtime.... time to find a good alternative, I think.
Where is the print preview????????? A feature that Microsoft took till 5.5 to find out that everyone needed it. When did netscape forget?
Click this link to see the benchmarks and this link for the entire page of that article.
Clearly IE is faster, by a huge margin (surprising actually).
.sig: Open Source, Open Mind
The newsreader seemed TO BOG DOWN SO BADLY. Just switching between posts took considerable disk access, while im on a slow computer it's 20 times slower that my old Netscape newsreader. It's a shamebecause page display has been sped up.
The surest way to make a monkey of a man is to quote him. --Robert Benchley
Worked just fine for me. -bZj
.sig
Umm, you can get rid of the sidebar. Just click the view menu, then uncheck "My Sidebar". You can also get rid of the IM at installation, along with mail, chat, and news. I'm just running the browser and nothing but the browser.
"We obviously need a new moderation category: (-1, Woo-fucking-hoo)" --Mr. AC
I'd describe it as more of a movie that's been edited for TV: Running time trimmed.
:)
That is to say the development was trimmed, as is the uptime of the damn program!
After all, a Director's Cut isn't always a bad thing. Netscape 6.0 will always be a bad thing
No, specifically it is the "Imported IE Favorites" folder that doesn't seem to be draggable. Hrm.
-Stu
The Opera browser is 100% W3C compliant
Then why is its ECMA script support so horribly broken?
-- "I believe the human being and the fish can coexist peacefully." - George W. Bush, 29 September 2000
I scroll just fine with my middle button. Change your mouse settings. -bZj
.sig
Uh... there IS source to Mozilla. Where have you been?
--
Obfuscated e-mail addresses won't stop sadistic 12-year-old ACs.
Win dain a lotica, en vai tu ri silota
Right, that's why we're talking about Mozilla 0.9 and not Netscape 6.0.
--
Obfuscated e-mail addresses won't stop sadistic 12-year-old ACs.
Win dain a lotica, en vai tu ri silota
Because they left in the moronic bug where you have to run it as root the first time.
--
Obfuscated e-mail addresses won't stop sadistic 12-year-old ACs.
Win dain a lotica, en vai tu ri silota
1. I have broadband both at home, and at work. Furthermore, I'm in Japan. I began downloading the Mac version this morning while in the shower, and 12 minutes later, it was done. This from an asia-pacific server. Later in the day, I downloaded the Windows version at work, and it took around 15 minutes. That's not that bad, considering it's around 25 megs and there are lots of people getting it.
2. 1/3 the load up speed of IE 5.5? Hmm. That's a bit of an exagerration by my experience. Unless you have IE 5.5 pre-loaded in memory...
3. What's unintuitive about the interface? It's just like every other version of Netscape -- just prettier.. the side bar is pretty much the same as what IE 5 on the Macintosh has.
My UI complaints right now are:
- Some themes seem to lack quality control. The "mozzilion modern" theme, for instance, has redraw problems with the scroll bars.
- the radio button controls have redraw problems. When I click on them, they sometimes disappear
- mouseover() events in Javascript are dog slow and cause this funny "white trailing line" if I scroll across a typical web page menu that uses them. Go see http://developer.bea.com for an example.
4. Haven't used the mail/news module enough yet, but right now I do like Outlook Express (especially the Mac version).
As for what "open source" can do, I think you're being a closed-minded troll. It's not about open or closed source, it's about trying to do something completely different -- and then having to ship it. There's always teething problems with a 1.0 release.
Am I 100% pleased with NS6? Not at all.. but they didn't blow it for me.. yet. I've been using IE for over 2 years now but I'll switch back to NS 6 in the interim.
-Stu
Downloaded both yesterday. Win32 version is actually quite good. But the Linux version is TERRIBLE. It's hard to believe (esp as a developer) that they are from the same codebase... Under Linux it crashes more often than 4.76 (I didn't that was possible!) and Java support neither works, nor does the ability to download the java support. Terrible. Why can't they package Java in the Linux version like they did for Win32 rather than relying on d/ling a plug in, given the prevelance of Java these days. It greatly saddens me to see just how poor the Linux version is.
Linux fan and Win32 developer
Netscape 6 is the perfect example of why "blanket rewrites" never work out the way you intend them to.
... ad nauseum.
First of all, let me say that I'm so far moderately impressed with NS 6. I've seen the prior PR releases and Mozilla builds, and this actually looks and feels like a "release" quality product. I always felt the Mozilla and PR releases just plainly sucked for polish and buginess. For NS 6, Netscape has done a tremendous polish job , and I'm very surprised they released it this early with this level of quality.
Now, having said that, their polish job wasn't nearly enough for this to be a *great* release. Rewriting a product is *always* chasing a moving target... and requires bug fix after requirements change after headache after political battle
The worst thing about rewrites is that usually developers are screaming for *another* rewrite by the time the rewrite is finished, because it has already begun to rot. I really, really, hope this isn't the case with NS 6.
The aftermath of this release is going to be:
- The impatient ones (i.e. 70% of web users) are going scream murder at Netscape's incompetence at releasing so many bugs. (ignoring that Linux 2.4 is over a year late, Netscape 6 is now around 1.5 years late, etc.)
- The slightly patient ones (leftovers, i.e. me) will be somewhat disappointed, but hopeful based on initial experience.
They really have to placate that last crowd. And if the code isn't clean, there's no time for another rewrite. If the majority of quirks aren't fixed in short order (i.e. Netscape 6.1 within 6 months), Netscape will probably remain a niche browser for UNIX platforms, while Windows and Mac users remain with IE. IE is just too good of a product now to choose not to use it for purely "but it's Microsoft" reasons.
For now I'm going to stick with NS 6 to get used to it more. At first I almost gave up on NS 6 really quickly for odd quirks, but they somehow cleared up after I rebooted my machine. (Go figure). Anyway.
-Stu
Please provide the full install pack, so that I can take it with me home on a CD-ROM.
-- From Denmark
I can't even do basic things like getElementById in IE...
I hate playing devil's advocate, but that is one thing you can do that works in IE... getElementById() works just fine (although I think it is a little too permitive - it also gets elements whose names are passed, which is wrong - for that you should use getElementsByName() ). At least in IE 5.x.
There are other (rather basic) things that do not work in IE, like the constants defined in the Node class (e.g., Node.TEXT_NODE raises a javascript error).
--
Marcelo Vanzin
Marcelo Vanzin
I think you have the wrong version, as the option to ad mime types is in the final version I have:
See...?
-bZj
.sig
uhhh, the reason that it "won't even debug" is that you ran netscape in the background, when it prompted you to type 'yes or no' you were at a bash prompt. if you were to type 'fg netscape' and THEN type 'y' it ought to work just fine. notice how bash told you "bash: y: command not found" ??
HAHAH, I make 3x more than you.
I could house you, my family, your family, and the rest of this lame town.
ETRN x
For the 1st: Conventionally, 'bloat' has not refered to memory usage, but extra, useless programs and a large base of files installed to the harddrive.
Second: I have not been able to get NS6 to use more than 22MB of RAM. I open more windows, I click on multiple links in those windows, and it never goes above 22MB.
I guesss I'm lucky.
-bZj
.sig
> It is the same crap as Netscape. The exact same bugs and performance issues.
...)(well, Lynx aside ;) )
:)
You mean that no bugs where fixed in the last two months? Please, take a look at bugzilla and you will see...
Only one example: The recnte nightlys include the new ViewManager that fixed MANY CSS opacity and positioning bugs and improves performance.(Bug: #39621)
Mozilla is the best browser I know that run on all my boxes(Debian, FreeBSD, Win2k, Solaris,
And if you know a more standards compliant browser, please tell me.
> If I can't get the source, I can't trust.
At least you can get the Mozilla source code, may be you can ask M$ for the IE source... or AOL for the Netscape source... I wonder what they added/removed to Mozilla
Best regards
Uriel
- - - - - -
"When in doubt, use brute force." Ken Thompson
Nope, actually CNET was being generous. Gecko is exteremly slow - much slower than 4.76 even.
For example, trying to load a simple html file from the hard drive (/usr/doc/glibc-doc/libc.html in debian/woody) that is 3.4MB takes over 145 seconds (current Mozilla and NS6 same results). On 4.76, the same file loads in under 9 seconds.
Searches for text within a loaded file are also rediculously slow in Mozilla/NS6. On a long file, the closer you get to the bottom of the document, the longer the searches take! It can take many seconds for a search to advance just one line of text in a big document.
I don't use Windows, but I'm sure IE trashes Mozilla in these arenas. Gecko has a lot of growing to do.
Hate to say it, but IE's cache actually works properly, where NS4's is horrifically broken. (Resize a window to see this. Does it cache anything at all?)
Netscape.com's webmasters probably had the wrong expire date on the page, and IE just did the right thing and pulled it from cache.
--
Business. Numbers. Money. People. Computer World.
Ya, you don't bother coming to my site because you KNOW
i will see you on the server's logs and report you to your ISP.
ETRN x
Incorrect my friend. As the name implies, 'Communicator' is the bundled package of all the Mail/Browser/News/etc. The browser-only was Called 'Navigator' back in the day.
God, I miss 3 Gold.
-bZj
.sig
After reading here how much better mozilla is these days I decided to try it yet again (my previous experiences with it have all been negative, as far as it being a usable product and not just "lots of 'cool' shit"), and i got these identical results on RH6.2. Wont even run. Tried two different installers. Tried every binary, all the shell scripts, run as root, etc., depending on what i do, i either get core dump, segmentation fault, or a bunch of debug messages and it just returns to the prompt. NS6.0 on the other hand ran perfectly well immediately, java applets and all, and i ran it for several hours with no crashes. I even could switch the theme to the classic netscape theme and not that awful "Love Boat" theme they have now. So they must have changed *something*.
In the next 6 months my bets would be with AOL/Netscape as far as a usable product since they will be mostly concerned with end-user satisfaction (i.e., it works, reads all the crappy geocities pages without crashing, reads all the stupid DHTML garbage without showing a blank screen, etc) rather than putting an unstable and complicated version of every kitchen sink the W3 comes up with in it. And who cares about how either of these run on Windows anyway, use IE on windows until AOL gets everyone to use Linux-based appliances.
BTW. "ya" is sweedish you dumbass.
ETRN x
Hey I couldn't log-in to my second/junk mail account! The funny thing is that I start up IE and it works! If anyone that is using NS 6 can't log-in to there hotmail account plz post. I'm using Windows 2K now but this moring at work I log-in with Windows NT just fine.
From Zero to Hero... Starbuck Zero
of money!!!
The nightly builds from mozilla.org are already leaps and bounds ahead of the buggy product that Netscape is pushing onto the world. (2 frozen screens and reboots in the first 10 minutes of using 6.0, everything fine on the Nov 12th Nightly.)
Oh yeah, and a free clue to the Netscape rebadgers: I'm already online, so WHY THE F**K WOULD I WANT AN AOL ICON ON MY DESKTOP?
Since there has been so much talk over the "bugs" in the last preview of Netscape6.. I hope the folks at AOL/Netscape make every effort to quickly fix all the bugs that have pending bug patches. Lets see Netscape 6.1 soon :)
There are over 5 billion people in the world, why spend time with the bad ones.
For a more realistic view of the memory usage, look at this.
I wasn't doing anything but looking at Slashdot in both browsers.
-bZj
.sig
Mozilla/NS6 are slow. I keep reading about it being fast... but I don't get it. At least on my PII 400 running Debian/Woody.
............ lagged - Bring up preferences, browsing menus, opening a new browser window.... EVERYTHING.
First off. Everything is
Secondly. Rendering speed: I Do Not See It. Here is a quantitative test:
Try to load a simple html file from the hard drive (/usr/doc/glibc-doc/libc.html in debian/woody) that is 3.4MB. It takes over 145 seconds (current Mozilla and NS6 same results)!!! On 4.76, the same file loads in under 9 seconds.
Searches for text within a loaded file are also rediculously slow in Mozilla/NS6. On a long file, the closer you get to the bottom of the document, the longer the searches take! It can take many seconds for a search to advance just one line of text in a big document.
So, let's please dispense with the "VERY fast" rumours. It makes us look stupid.
Well, Netscape 'invented' the majority of simple HTML code.
-bZj
.sig
I like Native.Windows too, but I was just playing with it, and it does not pick up customized desktop settings, such as menu fonts and the like.
This is an issue because people with poor vision and so on need to have strange desktop settings, which is why Microsoft requires that apps pick up these settings in their guidelines.
--
Business. Numbers. Money. People. Computer World.
I personally think that trying to apply the Open Source development model for Netscape 6 resulted in a bloated, overdone program that is inferior to Internet Explorer.
The nice thing about the Linux kernel (and Apache) is that at least they haven't suffered from an excessive case of "featureitis."
For Windows 95/98/ME/2000 users, they're not going to bother with Netscape 6 given its bigger-than IE bloat and very slow startup speed.
Raymond in Mountain View, CA
This isn't intentional. Try this...
Make an HTML page with the following:
This will give you that nice blue screen in either browser. Somehow 'mozilla' is translated to blue. You can stumble up colors by throwing anything into the bgcolor= tag. I got a strange color from bgcolor="donkey".
-bZj
.sig
FTR, IE 5.0 for the Mac doesn't use Microsoft's Java libraries. Uses Apple's just-as-out-of-date libraries. ;)
----
----
Am I the only one who thinks Microsoft is a misnomer? Perhaps Macrosoft would be a better fit?
Oops. Should have been:
<body bgcolor=mozilla>
.sig
Yes it does. You can even switch it off :-)
Moritz
I hope you better run fast from the anti-IE crowd here. :)
Personally, the biggest problem with Netscape 6 is that the interface leaves a bit to be desired in terms of ease of use; one nice thing about Internet Explorer is that Microsoft has bothered to use its excellent Usability Lab to give the interface a very good "polish" for ease of operation.
Raymond in Mountain View, CA
100% compliance is very hard, when you also want 100% compatibility with buggy web pages.
I can, without a second thought, say I do not want this. If it is buggy, fix it. IE made the web world lazy by doing so.
-bZj
.sig
Netscape 6 has better CSS support that any other browser, but most sites are designed to work around the horrendous CSS support in Netscape 4.x (and the not-quite-good CSS support in IE)
"Imported IE Favorites" is a voodoo link to the voodoo Windows folder where IE bookmarks are stored. It's not really 'imported', it dyanically reads the IE bookmarks.
--
Business. Numbers. Money. People. Computer World.
yes you can save IE to the disk for Win2k install, Ive done it before
E XT=974256509.679215128&hitnum=2
check:
http://x67.deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=693255879&CONT
Sounds like you might want to download the sea-file, which has everything/I>.u nix/linux22/sea/netscape-i686-pc-linux-g nu-sea.tar.gz or the version for your favourite OS.
Try ftp://ftp.netscape.com/pub/netscape6/english/6.0/
Indeed. I already have Chris' mozilla and mozilla-devel RPMs installed. I though it would be trivial to then add galeon, but that requires gnome-libs-1.2 (even the -rh6 RPM). A quick trip to rpmfind.net, and I find a newer gnome-libs in Rawhide, but that in turn depends on glibc-2.2. Short of upgrading to RH7, it's just not worth the hassle. This is with both galeon 0.7 and 0.8
"The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike." -- Delos B. McKown
Yeah, happens to me on Netscape for mac as well...
if (!signature) { throw std::runtime_error("No sig!"); }
Mandrake?? Wasn't he the guy who hypnotized all the dodgy geezers?
if (!signature) { throw std::runtime_error("No sig!"); }
I don't believe ANY of those flamers here has ACTUALLY tried Netscape 6 FINAL! I am testing it for 5 hours and it didn't crash. I browsed over 100 sites, NONE appeared BAD I don't have memory leak problems at all So what the heck is the problem of you people??!?
Hmm so you are also one of the nutheads like me that saw that netscape uses less mem than IE
I agree, no joke
One sure-fire way to make it go wrong is to run out of disc quota while still having free space on the disc where the Netscrap cache is kept. Netscrap then corrupts the cache directory and can't go on from there. If you save a bookmark while you're out of quota it will trash your bookmark file too. I've no idea if the gecko-based browsers have this same bug.
MTTF for Netscrap 4.x < 0.5 hour for me.
mozilla yes, Netscape nope... The forked the tree a while ago and much of the standard compliance stuff didn't make it into Netscape 6
:-(
if (!signature) { throw std::runtime_error("No sig!"); }
Well, I tried it yesterday night.( in Korea )
Good side of it is :
- Language encoding always works.
( Sometimes, that of IE can't. For example, "Korean" disappears from the menu. )
- Fast
Bad side of it is :
- the widget is not Windows-native.
So, you can't change the font size of menus.
- The font size for menus are too small.
- The UI looks bulky.
So, I removed it.
Helium balloons want to be free.
Don't get me wrong; I love Opera. I've been a paid user of it for years, even paid for two different versions (including the current), but there are some real problems with it.
The two biggies are that it craps out completely frequently, at least on my systems, and it has rendering and JavaScript parsing errors. I brought the JavaScript errors to their attention over a year ago and they still aren't fixed. Rob Malda and I discussed some of the rendering errors several years ago, before I was able to prove that they were on Opera, not Slashdot, and they've improved but it still has trouble on lots of pages. JavaScript works better on Netscape and perfectly on I.E., which is ironic considering I wrote it precisely to Netscape's standard.
You could make the claim that the crashes and rendering errors are due to standards being violated, but that doesn't help when the problems are with sites like CNN and AltaVista. Opera makes sacrifices I can't live with daily.
About sig:
Microsoft(tm) - a particular virulent virus that has infected most Pc's.
Yes, and Windows is an acronym for Will Install Needless Data On Whole System.
---
---
"Multiple exclamation marks are a sure sign of a sick mind." (Terry Pratchett)
Are you using 2.0Final or a prerelease? Try upgrading to 2.0Final if not.
A lot of people seem to think that IE, IS and other hideously-named MS products bundled with different MS Operating System are free.
Neither do I have to pay for IE for the Mac or Solaris. Win 3.1 does not come bundled with IE 5, yet I can still go and get it from them for free. Just how much _less_ should software cost for you to call it free?
You are saying that any software that requires an operating system I have to pay for is not free, no matter what I _didn't_ have to pay for it. There's no such thing as free/shareware for MS OS's? Could have fooled me...
--
Dyolf Knip
Overall, I think it's pretty good... there are some issues that need work, though.
In some cases, it has issues with some tables -- MSNBC.com's front page looks rather messed up. In another area, I tried heading to Uproar.com to play some games, but was told by the site that my "out-of-date" browser didn't have enough JavaScript support to cut the mustard.
Seeing that both tables and JavaScript are vital to the web as we know it today, these are issues that NEED to be addressed. I wonder exactly how soon 6.1 will be out?
-- Pauley
And, its a good thing I installed it on my work machine instead of my home machine. I don't want to bother messing up my home system with it now.
First things:
It doesn't get along with Neoplanet...which I like having around because it starts quicker from the tray, and for those IE only websites. Otherwise, I use Netscape...especially for reading newsgroups.
Trying to launch the executable (as at the end of the setup, from the shortcut, or directly from the install directory) causes it to trigger Neoplanet). Netscape is the default browser on my machine.
Next the activiation crashed the first time, and later I couldn't use the buddy list. It offered me the same ID as my Netcenter ID....but I don't know what password it set, its not the same as my Netcenter ID. But, I deduced that its the same as AIM/CSIM, so I used my old CSIM id.
I tried installing a theme, this resulted in dialogs without okay/cancel buttons and missing navigation buttons. Fortunately the default action was 'accept' for switching back to the default theme....
Got a bunch of "unknown alert" messages while browsing through the preferences. And, the bottoms of some of the preference screens are chopped.
And, the newsgroups support is horrible. Looks like they changed the keys for navigating messages like then did between 3.x and 4.x Other glitz means you see less of the actually messages now. And, its slower....
Good thing it didn't replace 4.x....I've gone back to using 4.76. I wonder if I would ever want to upgrade to 6.x
I hope Netscape/AOL gets it together though....I work for a commercial (web-based) software company and we used to say "well it works with Netscape", when people had trouble using IE. Now, in some cases, its the otherway around....
You may be a dreamer, but I'm The Dreamer, the definite article you might say!
You mean like the Microsoft IE installers? Those let you download the components you want and even store them for later use (unlike a few others, like Quicktime). One benefit of the small downloader is that you don't have to download EVERYTHING and then only install a few parts. That was one thing I hated about the NS Communicator packages. It also made it harder to upgrade.
I won't be using NS6 until (1) the bugs are mostly out (2) its mozilla and (3) I can get rid of the sidebar, integrated IM and other add-ons i don't need. I just want a simple browser.
Ehehahahahehehahah
If Netscape cut funding for the Mozilla project, Mozilla would lose:
- Dozens of its most active developers
- the web site
- the cvs server
- the bug tracking system
- the automatic build farm
- a large collection of testcases and specs that live on hosts inside the Netscape firewall
- many other important resources
If Netscape killed Mozilla funding, that would be a very serious blow which Mozilla might not survive.How in gods name can a browser be 40megs?? Thats the size of a small OS!
How old are you exactly? That's the size of a big OS...
People replying to my sig annoy me. That's why I change it all the time.
Seems to me that they've rushed it to "market" a bit (good ol' AOL eh?)
/proc/cpuinfo - CPU with 128Mb physical RAM)
I would have liked it to be a lot tighter than it is, I downloaded it this morning (UK time), and got pretty decent transfer rates off linuxftp.netscape.com, might not be so speedy now. Having installed it however, things were not quite so quick. It seems to render the chrome a damn sight slower than Mozilla nightly does, ditto displaying even relatively simple pages off local servers, and ps afx resulted in netscape spawned processes more than filling my Eterm! On the whole, using it was painfully slow (on a 500Mhz - 501 according to
In spite of all this, being the generous BOFH that I am, I made it available to the rest of my office, and one of our sales guys loves it because "it's blue, not grey!" and maybe this will prove to be it's saving grace... Non-techies will love it simply because it's pretty "ooh, I can skin it!"
I, on the other hand, have already returned to the safe territory of Galeon with libgtkembedmoz.so from the latest nightly.
--
Listening for the sound of the coming rain...
Linux distro+GTK+Mozilla > Linux distro+KDE (includes Konqueror)
Windows (includes IE) > Linux distro+KDE
Windows+IE+Mozilla > Linux distro+KDE
MacOS (includes IE) > Linux distro+KDE
MacOS+Mozilla > Linux distro+KDE
Need I go on?
I think it's pretty good. Real Player working in linux. My USB mouse wheel is working perfectly. A lot better than 4.76.
I just tried installing on NT. I get a 214 error -file not found. hmmm...
If only they had an IE theme.
While many might blame netscape for releasing a browser that for many(including me) doesn't feel the way a finished and competitable product should feel.
But Then again it was about time, Netscape was getting into serious timing troubles with netscape 6. MS is about to realease a beta of it's "Version 6" Browser and Netscape had to act.
What is a bit sad tough is that Netscape maybe released it just a little bit too early.
Why? Because M19(the next Mozilla Milestone) is labeled "stability and speed improvements" in mozilla.org's seamonkey milestone plan(yes i know there is a second plan which describes the mozilla and ns trunks more exactly)
Still, maybe waiting another month may have lead to a much more improved product. On the other side in one month netscape's market share may very well be nonexistend(at least on windows, which sadly is the criterium)
Maybe this was the right move by netscape. Maybe a inperfect final release was better then another month of delay.
Whatever happens to netscape, I'm going to keep downloading mozilla nightlies while still watching other browsers such as konqueror
"Mommy, mommy! The garbage man is here!" "Well, tell him we don't want any!" -- Groucho Marx
Anybody know when they'll release one for Solaris? Or are they leaving that to Mozilla?
I got the full version early this morning from Netscape w/o any download lag at all. But I'm sure that's different now.
Things Different:
1) Load time is VERY fast.
2) Page rendering is on par with IE5.5
3) Most sites display correctly
Things the Same:
1) BIG FREAKING MEMORY LEAK!!I'm running Net6 on Windows 2000. Ever page I load increases Netscape's memory footprint by approximately 1.5 Mb. I let Yahoo's random page URL keep loading files and I ramped the memory usage up to about 85 Mb before I quit. Closing Netscape and reloading drop the footprint back to 4 Mb, which on first inspection is nice. However it quickly ramps up fast. Even entering data in this form box is increasing the ram count about 4K every 20 characters or so. Netscape 6 definitely should not have been released yet. This is sad and pathetic for the once innovative and powerful Netscape.
Some people take their .sig way too seriously
I can't say how many times I have had problems with IE handling things properly. Firstly fonts are crippled and have only vague descriptions about their relative size. The Java handling is poor (try to use something like hushmail sometime and you get the idea). Their implimentation of SSL really stinks too with connection drops in the middle of SSL and so on (check sourceforge's page for some examples).
Respond to s
According to CNET, IE5.5 is twice as fast as Gecko. We are not talking about a 20% difference...
What is stunning also is that CNET claims Java under Netscape 6.0 is also much slower... which is really missing the point. Netscape 6.0 supports a plugable JVM (OJI)! Which means you have JDK1.3 support right now and better later whereas IE only supports the MS JVM which, as we know, is now frozen in time.
When it comes to Java, Netscape is technologically way ahead. It is miles and miles ahead.
(Same for Mozilla, of course.)
Actually most browsers know have a plugable Java JVM mechanism... except for IE which bundles its own JVMs. That's quite a weakness of IE.
I downloaded and installed it on NT this morning. It hasn't crashed and has been working fine on the sites I visit. It does seem to be more polished than past releases and mozilla releases. Memory useage is high, but it does seem to level off around 40 meg (with java plugin and java2 applets loaded). They needed to get something released. Things will only improve from here with mozilla and furture releases.
it's in /pub/netscape6/english/6.0/ (for english speakers);
choose your platform, then go to the sea/ subdirectory. (Self Extracting Archive?).
Sure, go on.
Maybe you'll make a point in the end?
<grub> Reading
I ain't bothered downloading it and I won't until I hear better comments, I'll stick with M18 for the time being.
Why the h*ll they still insist on developing all that add on crap themselves, I really don't know. That's what really yanks-my-chain about the Mozilla project. Instead of just concentrating on developing a BROWSER, they have to (1) Waste time developing add on junk (2) bundle a load of garbage which no one will use. What's so difficult about "coming to an agreement" with a third party developer to bundle their product (Chat/News/E-Mail whatever) with Mozilla?
Had they taken that approach, we *might* have a decent browser by now.
(damn I am stressed)
*YetAnotherShiteRelease
http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20847 It goes on for pages. There is a patch, tho it's not in the nightlys. Just plain screwy
--
You're just jealous because the voices only talk to me.
oh, and don't overwrite anything, and do include the CVS subdirectory. enjoy!
Use my userscript to add story images to Slashdot. There's no going back.
IE did this too - it used to have a cool about:mozilla page, but now it just brings up a blue screen (Blue screen of death?).
Free Anne Tomlinson!!
It was originally created in the early 1990s at the earliest.
Respond to s
> I'm still waiting for Mosaic 4.0 and Coplenand, dammit!
You mean *Copland*, methinks.
about:mozilla no longer works. It brings up the Book of Mozilla, but the N doesn't change into a fire-breathing Mozilla anymore! IMHO, this is the most disappointing aspect of NS6.
FWIW, this puppy is badly broken on the mac (MacOS 9.0.4). For example, when you select the "Customize Sidebar" option, it lets you add things to your sidebar list, but when you click on "OK" nothing happens - the customization window doesn't close, the sidebar isn't changed. Hitting Cmd-W doesn't work either. The only option is to hit "Cancel," which, of course leaves your sidebar un-customized.
Added to this rather major annoyance (you have no quick access to top bookmarks if you cant customize the sidebar) Netscape 6 takes over 25 seconds to launch on a 300 MHz G3, which, though not Apple's fastest, is certainly a mainstream machine. By comparison, IE 5 takes less than 10 seconds to launch and load a home page on the same machine.
This is really a beta release, and should have been presented as such. Thank god I have a cable modem, so I didn't waste too much time downloading the installer.
1) I just downloaded the Linux version. The installer is pretty slick and I got high transfer rates, but unfortunately I had to do it 6 times before it would actually complete the install without hanging.
2) Upon installing it insists that you register for their Netcenter website and the fonts where it asks you if you'd like spam along with your registration are so small that they're barely legible. Suggestion: Just click the link says "I'm under 13 years old" to get around the mandatory registration.
3) So far this version shows no improvement over the nightly snapshots I've been downloading from Mozilla's site. Suggestion: Download a recent nightly build from mozilla.org instead if you really insist on upgrading.
4) It won't render NVidia's Linux Drivers page. Lame...
numb
I decided to download Mozilla M18 instead of Netscape 6 because I don't want all of the AOL applets shoved down my throat. I'm using M18 to post this message. It's still pretty buggy. (After I had spent some time configuring the preferences to my liking I clicked the OK button, but nothing happened so I lost all my settings when I closed the window) I had intended to wait until Mozilla 1.0 to try it, but since the code is good enough for Netscape 6.0 I decided to give it a try. I guess I'll keep using it for a while...
Refrag
I have a website. It's about Macs.
> Funny thing - whenever I go to my inbox @ hotmail.com a little MSN icon appears on my toolbar
> (right next to that scary little Java icon character). What the hell is going on here?
I'm curious - if you click the button does it take you to MSN.com? If not, what does it do?
That's the 'favorites' icons. When something gets added to your bookmarks, if favicon.ico exists on the server it uses it as the icon.
Free Anne Tomlinson!!
[this comment posted from Netscape6]
Why is gecko so fast but the application itself so sluggish? is this more noticable with the windows app do you think?
actually this feels a bit more responsive than even PR3...
--
my other post is +5 insightful
With all that in mind, I was excited to see that N6 was out because I've liked the Mozilla and preview release builds, except that they were buggy and seemingly incomplete.
I like a lot of things in Netscape 6. The Gecko engine is great. It renders pages pretty fast, which is good. The "Modern" skin is pretty cool. Is it a good idea... well, that's another issue, but it's cool. There are a lot of features that I like in IE that weren't in Netscape 4.6.whenever-I-stopped-really-using-it like some of the sidebar stuff and the toolbar. (Yes, I know the toolbar has been in 4.7 or so for a long time, but it took them a long time to get it there!)
Here's the bottom line of my impressions with N6: it's all in the little things!!!
There are two things that are ticking me off enough to possibly send me back to IE. First, arranging the bookmarks. This should be easy: I have imported "toolbar favorites" from IE, I want them to be in my N6 toolbar. I'm a pretty smart guy and I have no idea how to do this. Drag-an-drop isn't supported, so I can't move them. Cut and paste are supported (even though "cut" is enabled in the edit menu. There's a menu command "Set as Personal Toolbar Menu"... which apparently does nothing! I know it's stupid, but these are the things that make me choose IE, not the engine. (Well, I shouldn't say that. If the engine was unacceptable it would influence me. But, being a typical web user, most engines I find are "acceptable", so it's not typically a factor.)
Second big annoyance, I now have five icons on my desktop (I'm using Win2000): Netscape (I wanted this one), "Free AOL Unlimited INternet" (fine, AOL owns Netscape... I'll bear it), "Net2Phone" (quit installing this!), "RealPlayer Basic" (I already had it), "Take5" (See previous, I hate this thing).
Goal for Netscape: Don't tick off you customers by installing worthless things. It may convince some people, but I think it angers more.
Another goal: Do less, do it well. I frankly, don't care about skins. If I did, I would use WindowBlinds. But I do care about being able to set up my "toolbar favorites".
I'm going to continue trying N6, because I like Mozilla and believe it can turn out good products, but I really hope the quality improves.
"Let your heart soar as high as it will. Refuse to be average." - A. W. Tozer
I've been reading a lot of comments comparing NS6 to current Mozilla ... and of course current Mozilla works heaps better!
Netscape may have jumped the gun, but would someone who uses NS4.7x care to make a comparison of the two browsers (and mail readers)? I remember it was the same people here who had been asking Netscape to pull out and stop supporting NS4.7x. Now that NS6 is out, why don't you compare that with the old browser and tell us whether it's an improvement or not and how is it an improvement, if ever???
> And so far this does seem more stable than the last Mozilla I tried out (M18, not the latest nightly).
Try the nightlies. You might get pleasantly surprised (I have been).
Cheers,
--fred
1 reply beneath your current threshold.
In the installer, the little "Activation" window popped up that wanted my name, e-mail address and ZIP code. I couldn't think of any good reason to give these things to them, but I thought I'd read the privacy policy and see what their intentions were.
The link to the privacy policy didn't work. In fact, none of the little links did a bloody thing. Two problems: a) No privacy policy is a bad thing. b) Links don't work? Call me demanding, but I enjoy a good A tag every now and again.
Obviously, they didn't get any personal information.
Now I've got "Please wait..." written in the middle of a 400x400 window that's been hanging out there for the past 5 minutes. Looks like 6.0 is a dud.
-Waldo
I'll be sticking with Konqueror aswell. Its rendering is just as good as Netscape6 (IMO), and it's nowhere near as bloated. BTW, you can turn off URL completion by right-clicking the location bar and selecting None from the Completion submenu.
No, this is not a warez advert.
0 /windows/win32/sea/N6Setup.exe
0 /unix/linux22/sea/netscape-i686-pc-linux-g nu-sea.tar.gz
I found this while searching the FTP server for a full download because I cannot use the net to download an installer which will in turn download other components.
ftp://ftp.netscape.com/pub/netscape6/english/6.
ftp://ftp.netscape.com/pub/netscape6/english/6.
Check the URLs for spaces, I don't know why they are inserted when I post.
Try ftp1,ftp2. Mirror if you can. Thanks
--Ben
There are three degrees of standards-compliance.
Zero, mediocre, and perfect.
Anything less than 100% shouldn't be tolerated when it comes to standards support; that's what standards are all about. I don't care if it's 99% compliant; IE5.5/Windows is supposedly 99% compliant too. That's not good enough when 100% is possible.
----------
I vividly remember how people used to think that it won't ever be released. I wasn't far to beleive it too.
Sure, I'll stay with Mozilla, but I rejoice that the popularity of Netscape will boost Mozilla acceptance.
Maybe we are going to avoid a Web hard-coded for IE, after all.
So hoora for them. But they should get a bug-free 6.1
(How much time until the first security hole popus up ?)
Cheers,
--fred
1 reply beneath your current threshold.
The 'Proxy Settings' button might come in handy. (On the 'select download location page'.)
Free Anne Tomlinson!!
From all the complaints I'm reading, I guess I'll just have to stick with Konqueror, which has been working perfectly for me so far. Only feature I don't like in Konqueror is the auto-completion of URL's you've visited when you type a URL in the location bar.
Maybe it was me but I wanted netscape to install on D drive but it insisted on trying to install on E drive and no matter if I changed the drive and path it just stayed stuborn. My E drive did not have enouph space and I kept getting this stupid message about how I can't install on E. I KNOW THAT which is why I CHOSE a different path to install on! If it still has stupid bugs like this- it really should have spent much more time in testing. Also btw, when I want to download a program, I don't just want the installer that will download the program: I want the whole thing! So I am just going to ignore netscape for awhile. Just as a note I use windows NT only at work and linux at home. Which means that yes I could mess things around to get it to work but since I am at work I am definately not going to bother.
I miss the Karma Whores.
I'll probably have ESR scratching my name on a bullet for saying this, but I think the Mozilla/AOL combination illustrates some of the natural incompatabilities between commercial marketing-department-driven software and open-source developer-has-an-itch-to-scratch-driven software.
I keep up to date with the Mozilla code on Linux and I don't see any sort of AOL crap. That tells me that for this product, the poor developers branched their code and started adding all that AOL fluff. As far as most of us are concerned, that effort would have been better used fixing bugs on that branch.
I hope this product stays alive; I'd really like to see it survive. I just hope the marketing doesn't get in the way of stability.
It's still there (in fact, if you previously disabled them, it will stay disabled and you won't be able to turn it on). It just got removed from the GUI.
Delete/edit all/some the -ns.js (e.g., prefs-ns.js) and you'll get it back to mozillaness.
Free Anne Tomlinson!!
Mozilla has worked with Java for a long time. just download the latest runtime enviroment. the copy npjava12.dll npjava11.dll and npjava.dll into the bin\plugins directory for mozilla (that's if your using windows)
Someone else would pick it up.
A lot of companies don't want to cede total control of the Web to Microsoft.
I'm hanging up on Realplayer 8
If you aren't part of the solution, there is good money to be made prolonging the problem
It diplays correctly cause the pages were written for IE. IE does not display pages written for NS correctly...
--
"No se rinde el gallo rojo, sólo cuando ya está muerto."
$HOME is where the
-- silver_p
heh.
i used this policy when looking for a wife... didn't go so well.. met one girl who was 99%.. and I called her mediocre. :)
seriously, the standards are constantly evolving, changing. 100% is simply not always the best idea, especially when it comes to parts that haven't settled yet. and do you personally USE every feature in the dom? i doubt it. enough has been implemented, that its going to make moving over dhtml and any other complex bits easy and quick...
Running on a G4 Mac, I opened 6.0 as the "default" user, the Personal Security Manager appeared fine, but of course not showing my VeriSign certificate since that's in my real user profile. So I quit, then restarted as me, and the Personal Security Manager (apparently) hangs! Just a blank window, contents never rendered.
Out of curiosity, fired up a new mail message and looked to see where I would digitally sign the message -- that option seems to have been removed in 6.0, as I was afraid it might be.
So, for me, version 6.0 has fewer (useful) features than 4.7.
I hope that after I die the one word people use to describe me is "resurrected."
Anyone got an RPM for it?
-- Ed Avis ed@membled.com
I'm a bit disturbed by my side bar in NS6 they only way to customize it seems to be to go through the NS Web site, will NS end up being hard wired to AOL? For me that will back fire, I might leave some of their tabs there if I can build some of my own, but I'll leave the window closed if I can't add my own content to it.
Anyone know how to hack the my sidebar to load off a custom url, or do I have to build it from scratch using xul?
-Peace
Dave
Free as in "the Truth shall set you..."
Yeah, all the bugs aren't fixed
True, but I wasn't expecting them to be. That said, it's actually usable as an everyday browser (which is more than can be said for M18). The main problem with it, though, is that it's slow. Sure, it's much faster than M18, and in normal use, it's fine, but try scrolling down in long document or switching to another virtual desktop for a while, and then switching back. NN4 is significantly faster in both cases.
It also still renders Slashdot's spacer images in the titles of articles with a greenish line around them, so they look like little green squares.
The Linux version doesn't seem to have that bug for me...
Why oh why do they need to do these damn small install files that go out on the 'Net and get everything?
They don't! The installer lets you choose which components it will download. Worked for me, and I didn't get the news, mail, IM or the other useless bits. I would be using Galeon, but until they either provide a complete self-contained RPM or make it an easy compile, I can't be bothered. I still don't want an installer, though. I want a full install program. Net access from home isn't cheap here in Europe. I want to be able to download the whole thing at work, burn it to CD and take it home. Sigh.
"The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike." -- Delos B. McKown
On the other hand, I think Netscape had good judgement as to the timing. I don't think waiting another month after branch point would have eliminated all of the nasty bugs, but I think it would have set back the development of the Mozilla trunk and hence NS 6.1+ several weeks. I'm glad the weeks of rtm triage spam and "I can't believe you're not going to fix this for NS 6.0" flamewars are over for now. (Waiting another month before the branch point probably wouldn't have helped much either, because new bugs would have been introduced during that extra month.)
I'm not saying that waiting another month wouldn't have reduced the number of bugs, just that it wouldn't have helped as much as it might seem it would have. And NS did need to get a new browser out the door with NS 4.76 rotting and with IE gaining more and more marketshare.
--
The shareholder is always right.
> One benefit of the small downloader is that you
> don't have to download EVERYTHING and then only
> install a few parts.
That is exactly what the NS6 installer provides: it downloads only the components you need. The original poster is complaining that it downloads them separately instead of all at once.
> won't be using NS6 until (1) the bugs are mostly
> out (2) its mozilla and (3) I can get rid of the
> sidebar, integrated IM and other add-ons i don't
> need.
So use Mozilla.
Why will Netscape not let me import their themes into my nightly build of Mozilla? Is this a technical issue, or a marketing one?
And, if a marketing one, anyone know a workaround to get some of those Netscape themes into my Mozilla?
-----
I tried ns 6.0 final on both linux 2.2 and
win2000 on the same hardware. The win32 version
is much faster than netscape 4.7x and perfectly
stable. I have not had any issues with it.
It renders all the sites that I visit perfectly.
The linux version, however, is terribly slow,
and very buggy. Crashes abound. I think they
forgot to turn the debugging off, because it keeps
writing tons of text to the console where it has
been launched from.
Magnus
Hum, so it crashed on the third site I tried (win98).
Not the best first release, now is it?
-Ciaran
I was excited to see that one M18 window running /. only took up 25 megs!
People shape laws. Not the other way around.
Let me get this straight, you're complaining that you have the best browser available? I don't understand...
-- "Sponges grow in the ocean. I wonder how much deeper the ocean would be if that didn't happen."
Go here then, don't bother with the bloat.
Simple, Mozilla is the director's cut version of Netscape. That's terminology Joe Sixpak can understand.
The living have better things to do than to continue hating the dead.
I went to the Netscape download site, and in the unix directory I only found a binary for an OS which is not even unix (linux22). Any chance the FreeBSD binary will appear soon ?
-- unix is for people without a social life - Patrick van Eijk
(IE opens the source in Notepad; Netscape just shows it to you)
Since when do we all run windows? I'd rather be able to copy/past the source into ANY editor I want, not what MS tells me to (which I don't have to deal with anyways, cuz I don't run windez)
Pope
Freedom is Slavery! Ignorance is Strength! Monopolies offer Choice!
It doesn't mean much now, it's built for the future.
Who would use this trash, everything you click on in the UI is selling you something or asking you to register for something (not to mention you need to sign up with netscape just to use the browser) Netscape 6 get my mega-lame seal of dissaproval.
What pages would these be ? Pages that use <LAYER>?
IE is much closer to being standard than Netscape (by which I mean Netscape 4.x, as I haven't looked at 6 yet) when it comes to DHTML and CSS.
where there's fish, there's cats
Actually, needing "another month" to fix the most glaring bugs is not "true for every project". What is true for every project is the appearance that another month would be enough to fix all the bugs. Brooks (of the Mythical Man Month) called this the 90% problem. In reality, it takes approximately as long in calendar months (not programmer months) to do the last 10% of a project as it does to do the first 90%. When you take into account that the "fantasy factor" (the multiple of the actual versus predicted time to finish a project) is probably 2x or 3x, it can take a really long time to do the last 10%. I'm willing to bet it will take six months or more to get a dot release of Netscape 6 out the door with most of the outstanding defects fixed.
Walt
I just installed the Mac version, (download was very fast, either nobody is downloading or they've got serious hardware spewing it out) and it crashed instantly. Giving the program more memory meant it crashed with a different error.
This is sad, I was defending them the other day, saying that their release schedule made sense. Of course, I assumed that their insistance on not adding any new code was because they were busy fixing current bugs, but apparently I was wrong.
Mozilla hasn't been bad, once someone pointed out the Debug->Install PSM option to get SSL.
Oh well. Better luck next time.
It's the same one - both have build id 0811
Free Anne Tomlinson!!
alternatively for Mac fans try the >2MB wonder that is iCab
I love konqueror, it way faster then Mozilla, NS4 and NS6 you don't have to install all of KDE to run it, just a new QT , kdelibs and kbase2.
---
Holy Codebase Batman!
Just because it's done doesn't mean I like it any better. They went the wrong direction. Instead of trying to make it look all purty, they should have made it more stable.
It is still one of the three things that crashes my Win2000 box (*sigh*, Sorry, but I haven't had the time to move up to Linux..) -- Netscape, IE, and Windows itself.
Word of warning. Before you try this, make sure that the directory that Mozilla is installed in is writable by mozilla. After you install the psm you will have to keep the directory writeable due to a bug. If you don't mozilla will crash each time you visit a secure site.
HAs anybody tried KDE2's Konqerer (spelling?). I tried it and it's way better than IE or NS6 (or mozilla). Everything I tried actually worked... and I never could get it to crash... there were a few wierd little things that bothered me about it, like clicking on a file d/l link didn't d/l the file, but tried to display it, but that doesn't seem like a software bug, it seems more like someone forgot to put that MIME type somewhere as d/l instead of display. Every time I've used Mozilla, it has just crashed...
> If Netscape killed Mozilla funding, that would be a very serious blow which Mozilla might not survive.
Sure. It'll die overnight and get forgotten, like linux, freebsd, gnome, KDE or debian.
NO. If netscape stopped funding, it'll loose developers. It would be pretty hard, but I highly doubt it would be fatal. (And I am sure that there are half a dozen highly succesfull companies out there that have a vested interest into fighting against IE and would found the Mozilla project almost instantly...)
Cheers,
--fred
1 reply beneath your current threshold.
> Did any of the compliance bugs named in
> Flanagan's petition to postpone the release get
> fixed before the final release?
No. NS6 went to manufacturing almost immediately after that showed up.
I completely agree with you Mr. 11. However only wimps use lynx. Whats wrong with telnetting to port 80 and "GET /"? Afterall html is just text, and displaying it formatted is a corruption.
Please. Those two editors are the definition of bloatware. Notepad.exe is only 45KB, and it's a standalone program. How big is the entire Emacs package? At least 512KB, and probably more. Vim isn't much better.
"Ancillary does not mean you get to rule the world." --U.S. Circuit Judge Harry Edwards, speaking to the FCC's lawyer
--
I installed it on my Mac last night, and it seems to work fine, except for one problem: it doesn't display any web pages! When I point it to Slashdot, it displays the advertising banner and nothing else! Other sites that fail include netscape.com and mozillazine.org. Anyone else have this problem?
The minimal install of NS 6.0 is around the 8-10Mb mark, depending on the platform you're on. This gets you a fully functional, standards compliant browser. The other 25Mb or so is optional stuff like Realplayer, Java Runtime, Net2Phone, spell checker, mail/news etc. If you don't want that stuff then don't download it!
There are very few people today who couldn't have NS 6.0 downloaded and up and running on their PC within half an hour.
The specs for Konqueror sound pretty complete and impressive, so I'd be interested to head from anyone who could give a comparison of Konqueror vs Netscape 6/Mozilla both in terms of features and performance/usability etc. I don't care about the mail/news stuff in Netscape - just how it compares as a browser.
Oh, and why is there an option to download a UK version, but the installation doesn't give you the option to install UK English (yep, I had to go with the US English pack). Is there really any difference, or is it just labelling on ftp server?
... the comments are so bad, and the usability bugs are so obvious, that this did come into my mind: what if AOL are worried about being tied to Netscape (I seem to remember they have some kind of agreement to distribute Netscape with their next product) - so they force Netscape to release too early and then have an excuse for sticking with safe old IE?
:-), and which is stable as hell and full of cool features. And integrated with the desktop. Which is an advantage, dammit!
... No. Never attribute to conspiracy what cockup can explain. Still, I would recommend the Mozilla nightlies, even above M18, and way above Netscape 6 by the sound of it. Or Konqueror, which I am using now (just installed Mandrake 7.2
OK, I found the problem (at least in mozilla, I'll retry NS6 ASAP).
I have the proxy set up as 'autoconfigure' which is just a way that simplifies IS's life, since theoretically NS goes to the autoconfig URL, and gets the proxy settings, hosts not to proxy, etc. etc. etc.
Well, it turns out that this feature seems broken in Mozilla, in fact, if I remove the autoconfig, and specify the proxy server manually, everything works just fine. I will try this on NS6 as soon if it finishes downloading.
yep, that was it, now even NS6 works
-- the cake is a lie
Oh yeah it works great if you dont mind having 25 MB of memory being taken up by one window.
Where am I going and why am I in this handbasket?
" That tells me that for this product, the poor developers branched their code and started adding all that AOL fluff. As far as most of us are concerned, that effort would have been better used fixing bugs on that branch." If you had really been keeping up to date with the mozilla code as well as the development process (or looked at even one of the preview releases or even read a slashdot thread about them) then you would know that the Netscape developers did not branch and _start_ adding all that AOL fluff. TFrom the beginning there have always been two CVS trees, one for Mozilla and one for Netscape which pulls the Mozilla CVS tree and overlays all it's proprietary code. This parallel track has been going on since the beginning. The branch that did happen, (if you were paying attention you would have seen this in the nightly build directories starting on 9/22) _was_ a bug fixing and stability push branch. It was NOT a start "adding all that AOL fluff" branch. I repeat, that work has been going on in parallel since the beginning. I have been keeping up to date. It looks as if you haven't. -Asa
> Somebody please tell me that my code no longer
> works because they actually extended the object
> model
No, they did something even better. They actually implemented the W3C standards.
Mmm? Can't you read ? My post was sarcastic.
> Can you say Oracle? Can you say Sun?
I almost said their name. The 'half a dozen highly succesfull companies' were a cover for ORACLE/Sun/IBM/RedHat
Or maybe you wanted to reply to the parent post...
Cheers,
--fred
1 reply beneath your current threshold.
Opera is also very annoying in its insistence that standards conformance is more important than being able to view a page - it sometimes is unable to view the page at all, showing a blank screen.
Most of the time it works well (it is my main Windows browser, and is very fast indeed), but the standards conformance should be selectable - i.e. a button that says 'do your best and forget standards'.
Unfortunately the Opera people seem to think selectable standards conformance is not important. The IETFers disagree, saying 'be strict in what you send and liberal in what you accept' - since Opera is on the receiving end of HTML, a 'liberal' option would be far more useful, and in the long run would promote web standards by selling more copies of Opera.
I used to be a Netscape supporter until they got bought by AOL, now I am completely disappointed by their software. It is VERY VERY SLOW. You don't have key combinations to send a mail (ALT+ENTER), when defining a filter, you can't add a folder from the same window (in 4.7 you could.....). The good thing is automatic mail address collection.......
Someone take Netscape outside and put it out of our misery.
TWW
"Encyclopedia" is to "Wikipedia" what "Library" is to "Some people at a bus stop"
What about making the installer application proxy-aware ? I am behind a fairly fascist firewall that doesn't allow anything through (I have to use a proxy for http) and obviously the installer application just hangs.
:: chrome://navigator/content/navigator.js :: OpenBookmarkURL :: line 714" data: no]
. xul
Fortunately the ftp site also carries the big tar file which I could download easily (and much faster than I thought, very close to 100KB/s average)
That said my first impression is not that good since besides taking like years to start up (on a p3-550 w/ 128 megs) every time I try to access a site, *any* site, I get the following
got a request
JavaScript error:
line 0: uncaught exception: [Exception... "Component returned failure code: 0x80004005 (NS_ERROR_FAILURE) [nsIBrowserInstance.loadUrl]" nsresult: "0x80004005 (NS_ERROR_FAILURE)" location: "JS frame
JavaScript error:
chrome://navigator/content/sessionHistoryUI.js line 150: gURLBar has no properties
If the URL is typed in directly I just get the gURLBar error, and not the previous one, in any case it doesn't work.
Also interesting that opening up the preferences dialog gives this on the console
we don't handle eBorderStyle_close yet... please fix me
*** panel to load is = chrome://communicator/content/pref/pref-navigator
*** queueing up a panel...
this is on a fairly vanilla RH 7 box, which should have been QA'd by the NS folks I think... the second time I ran this abomination it doesn't even give me an error, it just refuses to load any page (I still get the errors if I click on the bookmarks tho).
An interesting tidbit, the default setting is to *save* all the data from previously submitted forms and passwords to sites (check in the preferences), and you can even display that previously entered data. If you leave your netscape unattended, prepare to be burned (IE at least *asks* you the first time if you want to save the passwords/form data)
-- the cake is a lie
Konqueror is nice, but it's still a bit unfinished. The Java part works, once in a while, most stuff will not work. I've yet to be able to open my.yahoo.com with Konqueror. It will be very very nice, when it's done...
If you had been actually watching (or better yet, participating in) the development process then you would know that any non-bandaid fixes that happened in the branch were contributed (subject to reviewers@mozilla.org) back to the Mozilla trunk. There won't be a big merge of branch to trunk since it was happening with almost every checkin for the last 6 weeks. One of the reasons that Mozilla nightly builds are as strong as they are is because of all the work that happened on the Netscape push to 6.0
-Asa
Y'used to be able to get windows 3.1 to boot and run off a single 1.44 MB floppy (though you had to zip it and make it unzip itself into memory to do that). Wonder how small you can get a modern browsing platform for the x86? D.R. Webspyder was only about 4 floppies inc DR DOS, wasn't it?
perl -e 'fork||print for split//,"hahahaha"'
Yeah, but to be fair, the readme that comes with the autoinstaller says minimum 26 MB for Windows / Linux and minimum 36 MB for Mac.
perl -e 'fork||print for split//,"hahahaha"'
Netscape = AOL = Stay as far away as possible
Donate background CPU time to fight cancer.
Seems the only way to modify my side bar is with JS
. see the article on xml.com
http://www.xml.com/pub/2000/03/15/xul/
still I'd be happier if people din't need to know JS to add something like that.
-Peace
Dave
Free as in "the Truth shall set you..."
You're using a web browser, aren't you? There exists no browser that exists that supports any set of standards perfectly. Hence, you are supporting software which does not fully support standards.
One has to choose the most-standards-compliant software, and here, Gecko-based systems rule, far and away.
Can you say Oracle? Can you say Sun? This article is dead on. Hell any of the Linux companies would be able to give at least as much bandwidth and hardware to the project as AOL does. The only reason, IMHO, that they stick with AOL is that it is easier everything is in place but to move it would be far from fatal and in fact in the long run by making it clear that working on Mozilla is *not* working for AOL it would make for a stronger project. But for now it is doing just fine. BTW, I just grabbed the nightly and it is pretty slick.
Cypherpunks: Civil Liberty Through Complex Mathematics. Those who live by the sword die by the arrow.
In the sea directory at the lowest level there is an install file for each language/OS combo. You can download that instead of grabbing 2078 XPI files.
--B
NS 6 doesn't even do the slashdot site correctly. I wish they'd get something right...
Do you inspect a roller coaster everytime you ride it?
Thats deeply unrealistic. W3C recent standards are extremely complex (I have the schema spec before me: its in three parts, over around 300 pages, is very informally written, and deeply confusing). 100% compliance is very hard, when you also want 100% compatibility with buggy web pages.
Put bluntly: if you think 100% compliance and compatibility are possible, go do it. The world will beat a path to your door.
I tried the Mozilla 13 Nov nightly under Mandrake 7.1 last night. It might render more accurately than Netscape, but it doesn't look as good. The fonts it was using are just atrocious, and quite hard to read. I prefer the fonts Netscape uses. Actually, I prefer to reboot back into Win2K and use IE. So, is this font problem an issue with Mozilla, or just the X Window System in general? I am quite impressed with the look under Windows of decent fonts, and anti-aliased everywhere.
> It was close. So close. Another month, maybe two at most, to fix the most glaring standards-compliance and stability bugs. That's all it would have taken.
This is true for every project. But there is a day where you have to ship. If they had waited a couple of month, then there would still have been a few remaining bugs. You would have whinned the same way.
See how linux 2.4 is slipping. More than a year late. Sure, it doesn't matter, it is free software. But for netscape6, it matters. The marketshare is almost 100% IE. In a few month, the web would be IE only. Be glad they released something. Be _very_ glad.
Cheers,
--fred
1 reply beneath your current threshold.
FYI: if you grab the jre.xpi from NS6.0 distro tree you can (finally) get mozilla nightly + java going. Or at least you could with 2000111321. lots better :-)
and yes ns6/moz is clunky, but i have been using it for some months now and it works -- better than 4.7x for me anyway.
remember, mozilla 1.0 is 2Q2001. so it would have been too long a time to wait for netscape.
The main reasons are:
1. It is too slow. On my mac it is almost half the speed of 4.7. Even ie on the mac is faster!
2. It is full of links to useless busines/entertainement/buy/sell stuff, that i haven't figured out how to eleminate from the interface.
A huge downside for me is that NN6 only supports HTTP 1.1 through the proxy, which means that you can't use the Junkbuster proxy. Sadly, that means I'm stuck with IE unless I want to return to the land of the neverending banner ad.
If you use the normal install program, then choose "custom install", it's got an option for a UK language pack.
perl -e 'fork||print for split//,"hahahaha"'
It will be nice to be able to use the swing libraries (among others) without having the user download the jre (which they would almost never do).
--
A mind is a terrible thing to taste.
"A mind is a terrible thing to taste."
I followed the instructions here to get the source via CVS and every day or so I run 'gmake -f client.mk' which updates my source files and rebuilds. Is there something I should do to be more up to date than that?
Opera isn't fully CSS1 compliant. Just check the W3C CSS Test Suite and you'll se it. Internet Explorer is 99% compliant and Mozilla is almost perfect too.
The latest Mozilla Nightly Builds really impressed me. It's reasonably fast and stable (yes, IE crashed 3 times today, and Mozilla didn't. It's really weird but it's my personal case). I just found out the cool Layers stuff doesn't work yet. It has evolved A LOT though.
Proxy Auto Config does not work on either Linux or Windows, manual proxy config works fine.
Unable to get RealPlayer or Flash Plugin to work under Linux (Maybe user error)
Scroll Wheel not working under windows.
Overall -- works nice. php.net still does not work though.
Same thing happens on some of my machines. It shouldn't be necessary to reboot. When you open the task manager after you closed Netscape you'll see that the 'Netscape' process still hangs (around). Kill it and restart Netscape - everything should work again (for a while).
Calm down buddy I was throwing out examples of what you were talking about. I was saying you where right and adding my own thoughts on the subject to it. Maybe would have been better to respond to the parent but whatever. This was not a flame. But I am still trying to figure out why my first post in this thread was a troll? The moderation for about the last week has been insane.
Cypherpunks: Civil Liberty Through Complex Mathematics. Those who live by the sword die by the arrow.
I can't belive they released this under as a final product no Preview tags no beta designations. I have run it twice and crashed it twice on things as trivial as javascript arrays and some dhtml. I'm a developer and scared to try and support a browser on the sites I develop that can't even render a homepage that works fine in previous versions without crashing to the ground.
Yeah, I have this problem when hitting sites owned by large companies (ie: MS or AOL). The problem is that since the companies are so large, their web pages and cookies span a couple of domains and screw things up.
.. I have my cookie prefs in Netscape (4.75/X11 Linux) set to "only allow cookies from the originating server as the page" and the download links (click here... no, now click here... no, now click HERE...) stop if you don't have 'accept all cookies' on.
Maybe it was a glitch. Anyone else see this happen?
ZOMG I WOULD LOVE TO KNOW ABOUT YOUR FEELINGS ON MACINTOSH VERSUS WINDOWS, VI VERSUS EMACS, AND HOW YOU'RE NOT A DORK
-----------------------
by SimonK (simon@flatnet.demon.co.gb) on 11:53 14 November 2000 EST (#182)
(User #7722 Info)
Thats deeply unrealistic. W3C recent standards are extremely complex (I have the schema spec before me: its in three parts, over around 300 pages, is very informally written, and deeply confusing). 100% compliance is very hard, when you also want 100% compatibility with buggy web pages.
Put bluntly: if you think 100% compliance and compatibility are possible, go do it. The world will beat a path to your door.
----------------
Even if it was possible.. you would never get to it because your mailbox would be full of anony-cowards sending email saying how much you suck for
a) taking time to do it
b) not making it the way they want it
c) releasing anything that isnt perfect.
d) because it makes anonycoward feel all that much more powerful in their tiny world.
-- SJS smooge at smoogespace dot com
I have not been impressed with the speed of the releases I've tried....has the speed of the app improved at all?
I too had the wierd rendering of spacers. What fixed it for me was enter the correct dpi for my display. This is in the fonts section of the preferences. You can find out what dpi your display is set to in the Display control panel on the Settings tab, under the advanced button.
Spencer Ogden
I run Linux (Mandrake 7.1, XFree 4.01, and Helix Gnome) on an IBM 380Z (300Mhz, 64meg ram). Netscape 6 always chewed my ram and began utilizing swap space when I started it. I'm now using Mozilla 18 (Nightly Build) to type this. It is TONS faster on page rendering and my swap space monitor (GTOP) is telling me that I'm not using ANY swap space. I actually have 5 meg of memory free right now. I'm glad I switched. And won't be back. Netscape is NOT ready for release.
Oops.
Michael J.
Michael J.
Root, God, what is difference?
Why oh why do they need to do these damn small install files that go out on the 'Net and get everything? What I really want is a web interface that will let me pick my components and then send me an installer package custom made for my selections. It can't be that hard.
Sounds like the sort of thing a corporate sysadmin would say. Who's time can be better spent than doing the same thing X times...
I'm posting this from OS Xb in Carbon Mozilla!
Granted, it crashes unexpectedly and the fargin' MENUS are almost never in the same place twice (which is really weird), but compared to IE, this thing feels better. I always feel like I'm interfacing with molasses whenever I use IE, on any platform (MacOS 9, OS X or windez).
Oh, and Copeland was dead years ago, and *rightly so.* Apple told Adobe they'd have to re-write all their apps from scratch just for Copeland, and Adobe told them to take a hike.
Pope
Freedom is Slavery! Ignorance is Strength! Monopolies offer Choice!
It doesn't mean much now, it's built for the future.
I've tried it (Celeron 366, 128MB RAM, NT4) - here is my take:
:-(
- It's relatively fast (but Konqueror is faster and IE is faster too).
- It takes a long time to load.
- It loads the JRE on startup - why? That makes it take 24-25MB memory and I've got it up beyond 40MB just browsing af few sites. You can disable Java, and it will of course not load the JRE, but it still takes about 17MB!
- It's a pain to manage bookmarks - I tried to rearrange the imported bookmarks from IE, but I gave up at last
Greetings Joergen
It won't even TRY to display anything.
The only thing non-standard that I'm doing is using the autoconfig file.
I can't figure out what it's doing except when I look at the javascript debugger there is a nasty error.
Can anyone load www.bridge.com?
The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve nor will he ever receive either. - Benjamin Franklin
It's all over. Netscape is crap.
In Internet Explorer, going to "about:mozilla" results in a totally blank page with a blue (#000080) background, reminiscent of the BSOD. This is a pun at how Netscape crashes all the time.
Yeah, and here's the HTML code that they generate for "about:mozilla":
<HTML>
<HEAD>
<BODY bgcolor="#000080" text="#FFFFFF">
</BODY>
</HTML>
Nice of them to leave off the </HEAD>, wasn't it?
- Mike
Netscape 6 seems stable to me. I've been using it for about an hour without a crash on winblows 98. My only complaint is that it does not give keyboard shortcuts in Composer.
Don't write in this space.
OK
I think this is make-or-break time for them. It's about time they released something, but on the other hand, one would hope all standards have been adhered to, not just 'interpreted' or adapted like IEEEEEEE. B: "Hey rocky, watch me pull a Netscape out of my hat?"
R: "Again? That trick never works"
Netscape 6 renders sites with many multiple nested tables at about 1/2 the speed (or worse) of IE. The rendering is so bad when I visit one table-intensive site that there is about a one second delay between the time you press pagedown and the time the window actually scrolls. If I switch away from the Netscape 6 window and then switch back to it, it takes 3 or 4 seconds to paint the screen. While this may be an improvement over the prior versions of Navigator (I just tried 4.7 and it locked on the page) it definitely isn't comparable to IE in this respect.
Maru
I thought the newest realease of Netscape was supposed to use less system resources. On a Win2K system. 37MB on intital loading of program. 41MB on opening of a second browser window. I thougt this was supposed to be a "leaner and meaner" browser. Nice going AOL.
Get it from ZDNet's download center, and since it's just the basic install file, use the UK's servers for your download. It went pretty fast for me.
First impressions:
Yeah, all the bugs aren't fixed, which kind of sucks, cause there's a pretty nasty JS one that I posted about two weeks ago that hasn't been fixed in the nightlies and severely hampers some Intranet work I do. It also still renders Slashdot's spacer images in the titles of articles with a greenish line around them, so they look like little green squares.
If you've been using Mozilla for the past six months, you won't notice anything new, other than the fact that it takes up twice as much memory, loads a bunch of AOL shortcuts (I'm using the Win32 version) on your desktop and will allow you to integrate RealPlayer 8, Flash, etc. with your download.
Second Impressions:
Why oh why do they need to do these damn small install files that go out on the 'Net and get everything? What I really want is a web interface that will let me pick my components and then send me an installer package custom made for my selections. It can't be that hard.
The installer _is_ proxy-aware, and will even support proxy authentication (which I need).
Pity that it will fail...
[1] 16621
kill -9 16621
change me
Netscape wasn't ready yet.
It was close. So close. Another month, maybe two at most, to fix the most glaring standards-compliance and stability bugs. That's all it would have taken.
But no, they had to hand the project over to the marketers. So in the end, we get a Mozilla nightly plus a zillion ads foisted on us in every aspect of the interface. An interface which breaks every single standard known to man (it doesn't even get Windows quite right.
At least the speed issues are more or less resolved. But all the same, I'm sticking to Mozilla for now. NS6 should be treated as an unfinished project, because frankly it is.
----------
Don't forget about theme park! There's a bunch of new quality themes you can download.
here is a link to theNetscape Theme Park.
Sky Pilot is a bit cumbersome at first, but it's growing on me quickly!
-- Thrakkerzog
damnit I downloaded and installed it around 8am EST but I didnt submit it to /. cus I figured it would have been there already. oh well, no problems in 15 minutes of use WOOHOO!!!
Well, NS6 gave me more AOL junk, but it has a bunch of stuff that I couldn't get for mozilla.
Rather than fix up NS6, try this on for size:
Copy the contents of the PLUGINS folder from Netscape 6 into the BIN/PLUGINS folder of Mozilla (except for npnul32.dll) to increase plugin compatability for Mozilla.
This was the final step for me; now I use Mozilla for all browser activities. - oh, and this is for Windows, so I don't know how it will work on Linux or Mac.
Use my userscript to add story images to Slashdot. There's no going back.
Just out of curiosity, I downloaded a mozilla nightly, and I get exactly the same uncaught exception error, so after all it's not really netscape's fault.
I will submit a bugzilla entry right away.
-- the cake is a lie
I've been running this single session of NS6 all day and I'm at 43 MB total size. This is such a huge improvement over the prior Netscape which by now would be well over 150 MB due to nasty leaks in form input handling.
--
Ben Kosse
--
Ben Kosse
Remember Ed Curry!
> BTW, does anyone else have that problem where all of a sudden clicking on a link doesn't
:p Do what you will. I'll be suprised if 4.72 lasts long enough to let me post this.
> work anymore and the only way to get them to work is to reboot? This is also 4.7 on
> Win98.
I get that ALL the time in Windows or Linux.. me thinks it's related to Java or JavaScript (clap if your suprised).. anyway, you don't have to reboot in windows, as far as I can tell.. there's a window-less Netscape process that'll show up in the End Task dialogue after you've killed enough of Netscape's windows. Just kill that and wait for windows to realize that it doesn't want to die gracefully, end it, and it should be safe to restart. I've been running with java and javascript off, and that seems to help.. so many sites 'need' it now, though, it's getting irritating turning it off and on.
I have the last beta which I had to use because Netscape kept blowing up on my machine.It will completely baffle 90% of the current Netscape users who can barely function with a toolbar.
But I like it. It is "robust" and has a "rich diversity of functionality". Let's just pray it doesn't screw up my Javascript apps like it has in the past.
If you aren't part of the solution, there is good money to be made prolonging the problem
Netscape.com proclaims that Netscape 6 is here, but the download page only proclaims the preview release 3. The ftp site has the proper version. What's up?
--
Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
I'm still waiting for Mosaic 4.0 and Coplenand, dammit!
Ming for president!
Windows doesn't include IE. I have a Win98 installation with IE removed, and it occupies 60-70 MB. You can also create a fully working copy of OS/2 Warp in a very compact space (about 40MB or less). I would like to see an installed Linux distro with X and KDE occupying 60MB.
War is one of the most horrible things a human can be exposed to. And one of the worlds largest industries.
That's why darling
It's debatable
That someone so undeletable
Thinks that I am
Undeletable tooooooooo...
Sorry, had to do it. I'll take my medication now.
last time i checked there were still lots of bugs left in mozilla. i thought they would have waited a bit more to get more of the bugs ironed out before releasing... oh well.. count my blessings, its small, its not ie! (is this release premeture?)
talking about small, only 23M for Netscape+Real+Java+Shockwave.... very cool
Internet2 connection is cool.
Purdue University is cool.
But it appears the server is getting too much load. Looks like I'm going to have to find another mirror.
Really? It's slow as molasses on my Windows NT box :-(. Guess I'll keep using IE until Mozilla becomes an actual challenger.
A fast mirror of Netscape 6 will be available at ftp://ftp.heckard.com/pub/netscape6/http://www.hec kard.com/pub/netscape6/
I'm working on downloading it now, should be done shortly. Netscape sites are really, really slow.
Guess you'll have to download them by hand then! (ftp://ftp.netscape.com/ pub /netscape6/themes/english/6.0/
)
I downloaded it for my mac. Installation went smoothly. Then, the disappointment set it (as I expected). First of all, the damn thing does NOT recognize any of the old Netscape preferences, bookmarks, etc. So, lo and behold, you have to re-enter every damn setting AGAIn!!!! And, as most earlier versions have done, it crashed on me when I was trying to subscribe to newsgroups. BOOM! Buh-bye.
I'm used to NS 4.7. I think I'll stick with this and IE 5.5 for a while.
Incredibly disappointing.
didnt pre3 just come out? Last i heard, it was still crashing regularly, especially on linux 2.4. Maybe netscape hired a few M$ QA guys.
I am !amused.
so far so good. it imported all my 4.61 stuff seamlessly. The full install is about 43.6 mb though! Fonts don't seem exactly right, but not obnoxiously so.
Netscape 6 is out, but as everyboddy knows, its a total POS. The thing is totally unstable under Linux, a pukes on dozens of web pages. However I have found that the java plugin that comes with ns6 works perfectly with mozilla (something the sun plugin won't do). so all you have to do is install ns6 and copy java2 from the plugins directory into mozilla/plugins and symlink the javaplugin_oji in the folder into mozilla/plugins.
Actually, there have been quite a few, especially with Win95. One time, on a machine I was scrapping I decided to go into the registry and delete every reference I found to one of the particular icons. What ended up happening was having a "folder icon" with no properties, unmovable on the desktop, and with no name.
Really wierd...
Does anyone else think it is odd that a commercial browser is 'release' quality when they take a slightly buggy beta release from an open-source project, add a bunch more much, much buggier features and then pop it out the door? I'm sorry, I really like mozilla, but I think Netscape may be shooting themselves in the foot if this release isn't 'perfect' or at least much more stable than what IE on Windows is. Any major screw-ups and you can kiss the little bit of market share in the Windows world they have left goodbye. I really think they should be cautious with this one.
Slow moving marsupials and the women that love them
Slow moving marsupials and the women that love them
Next time, on Geraldo...
- The non-clickable border around the Personal Toolbar is much tighter than in Netscape 4. This creates a much smaller click zone, e.g., worse usability.
- The navigation toolbar (back/foward/reload) cannot be customized (or at least the option was not immediately obvious).
I've been a diehard Netscape user until 2 weeks ago when I finally switched to IE 5.5. These options and IE's advanced options for configuring 'trusted sites' makes me ashamed Netscape 6 turned out to be this bad.Interesting twist:
Try downloading a theme from the Theme Park using a Mozilla nightly.
That's right, Netscape wants you to download its own browser before you install a theme. That seems to also exclude Mozilla, the browser it's built on.
I'm pretty sure this restriction was put in by Netscape, as the EarlyBlue theme can be downloaded from x.themes.org just fine.
No thanks, I don't want net2phone, cruft, etc...
-------------
Someday, you're going to die. Get over it.
Five crashes. Ten lockups. SSL does not work at ALL. One complete kill of my X server. Better luck next time, kids.
News for Nerds. Stuff that Matters? Like hell.
Oh yes it does. MSN icon appears on desktop after any IE installation or upgrade/service pack. The installer even asks you to sign up.
Edith Keeler Must Die
I don't think they did much of any QA on this at all. I got the latest preview release, and most of the time, standard HTML form buttons don't work. Screw Netscape, they suck now.- -------------
-------------------------------------------
I bent my wookie
-------------------------------------------------
I bent my wookie
IE gives you the option to specify your own source viewer. It defaults to notepad.exe, but you can change it to whatever you prefer.
--
I tried to install to /usr/local (the N6 default location), but of course you need to be root to do that. After installing and running it as root, I tried to run it as a normal user. Instant segfault. Changing permissions to o+rx for everything lets it run for anyone.
BUT...If you bring up preferences, you'll see lots of buttons and other widgets with no labels! My guess is that you need write privileges to get those working. It's another permissions problem, since everything works fine for root.
Obviously, I could set everything to rwx for everyone; but that kinda defeats the purpose of access controls, doesn't it?
Since I do want N6 to work, I've not just bitched here - I sent a bug report to them.
As a side note, trying to download themes gives an 'Error loading URL' message. I suspect there is something wrong with the page, rather than the server.
All this does make me wonder how much testing they've done. But I suspect the N6 final was a political, rather than technical, decision.
ftp://ftp2.netscape.com/pub/netscape6/english/6.0/ windows/win32/sea/N6Setup.exe
get it from there
I feel bad not supporting netscape more, i mean jeez the guys are trying and stuff like this
--
my other post is +5 insightful
HTML Source options: IE (IE opens the source in Notepad; Netscape just shows it to you)
Actually, Netscape doesn't just show it to you. It shows it to you with syntax high lighting. That's a big deal for me. I prefer Netscape's way of showing the source for that reason.
Vanguard
That which does not kill me only makes me whinier
From the: Didn't-you-watch-the-browser-X-files? dept.
...does it seem like a bad software nightmare to anyone else? I would like to have faith in this, really I would. I'm just finding a lack of.....solidarity in their methods and procedures, I guess. You know, it was NETSCAPE 3!, NETSCAPE 3 GOLD!, NETSCAPE 4.X!, and now it's: netscape6??? This isn't a software release, this is a software leak.
Is it just me, really? I'm a Netscape fan, I'll admit it. But this release of Netscape 6 has had me feeling queasy each step of the way. Reviews have been poor, the interface is clunky, the bugs have been numerous....
Excuse me? Does this make anyone else uncomfortable?
Blog,Twitter
--
The result is a Mutt user interface that looks like it's gone through the blender a few times. Part of me likes N6's themes, but part of me says "why not just use the standard API's and leave the rest up to WindowBlinds, or the Appearance Manager or whatever?" Yes, themes let you change the UI layout (I think) and the icons on the buttons, but is that really worth it? If so, you could do that without a complete skin that blows off other system-wide skins.
Just a gripe... :)
"Let your heart soar as high as it will. Refuse to be average." - A. W. Tozer
I'm running it on an iMac DV+ 450Mhz G3 with MacOS 9.0.4. The customize sidebar feature works fine for me, and it takes about 7 seconds to start and another 3 seconds to display www.cnn.com. A local file cuts that down (you might want to try that to see if it's a network issue)
The big complaint I have is that the Java Console doesn't work on Mac or Linux. You have to look at the MRJAppletOutput file to see the stdout/stderr streams...
-- topher71
So where's the official version for Linux on a PPC - huh? I'm sick of these companies assuming Linux only run on an x86. I know, I can d/l the nightly from mozilla.org (which is what I do), but I'd like to see these places recognize that Linux runs on more than one architecture. BD
How annoying.
Netscapes page won't let you install their themes on Mozilla... That sucks! They look nice too!
-----------------------
Jeremy 'PeelBoy' Amberg
I downloaded it. Now I'm quite disappointed. Took me 3 tries of the download/install for it to actually install without any errors. Then when I finally got sick of it not finding my previous Netscape profile, yet it would consistently find the profiles of everyone else on this system, I realized that it's not worthwhile after about 2 1/2 hours and a very bad attitude that filled the air with swear words. So I uninstalled it, and found it doesn't *really* get uninstalled (using Windows 98 SE for all this). So I went and installed the latest IE 5.5 SP1 instead, which says a lot...considering I'm running FreeBSD on my laptop these days. Ya know what I mean?
The Mozilla nightly builds are better. How could AOL even think this crappy version passed off as a commercially viable product would go over? I mean, they're not my favorite company, but they didn't get rich by releasing software they should've worked on for another month or two. It's been a long day...goodnight.
For the Mozilla bigots, M18 also doesn;t yet support helper apps. At least not in the Win2K release.
Oh, well. Back to IE.
--- Che Leno
we'll try this again, with proper tags :-)
ftp://ftp.heckard.com/pub/netscape6/
http://www.heckard.com/pub/netscape6/
Opera also has dozens of features that the other guys seem to have missed. I was so excited when I heard that Mozilla/NS 6.0 had a 'zoom' function...then I saw they only changed the text size. Opera can zoom into or out of a web page, changing text size, table sizes, and resampling any inline images. It also has a new 'fullscreen' mode that's amazing...I'm wondering if I can sneak Opera into work to replace Powerpoint for presentations. By comparison, NS 6.0's new features seem mostly limited to cookie control and changing skins.
I downloaded NS 6.0 for NT this morning. Some bugs in the user interface, but I haven't found any fatal bugs yet. It's nice and I might use it for work (where NS is allowed and Opera is not), but the NS/Mozilla tech is not good enough to replace the Opera browser I use at home.
Genocide Man -- Life is funny. Death is funnier. Mass murder can be hilarious.
> Opera is also very annoying in its insistence that standards conformance is more important than being able to view a page - it sometimes is unable to view the page at all, showing a blank screen.
This is one of the silliest things I've heard in a while, and a prototypical liberal point of view. This sounds like the Gore campaign: "What? The election rules say X? Well let's change 'em to match what we want!"
Or outcome-based education: As long as it sounds good to you, your grammar is correct.
FAR, far better for a browser to say, "This is what HTML should be, if the authors screw it up, it's not our fault." then to try to figure out how to display incorrect HTML.
Btw: XHTML.
Netscape 6 can't even read a mime.type file! has anyone used this succesfully with Linux and get it to read the mime.typefile? I was lucky I backed up. I am back running 4.7 The Conqueror browser seems less buggy!
I installed N6 today on Win95 and have found it to be much less buggy than the beta 3 version.
/. banner ad for Zelerate: http://images.slashdot.org/cgi-bin/adlog.pl?index, open0012en
/. preview of this post, the URL isn't treated as a link. Is it appearing as a link on your browser?)
However, I can't link to the following URL provided as link from a
. Is the problem with the URL (perhaps the comma?) or with N6?
(Note: even in the
Work for Change & GET PAID!
Somehow your browsers using a cached version of the page. Hold shift and click your reload / refresh button to force download of the page without using cache.
... the Netscape Theme Park realizes that Mozilla IS compatible with Netscape 6. Let's see if I can get Orbit any other way... are the themes on FTP?
Michel
Fedora Project Contribut
I do believe he is referring to an installation icon, as oppose to a web link.
I know that statement is probably no surprise to most of /. . But, I've had it for an hour. It froze the machine (windows, sorry) twice on install and has died a couple of times. It seems no better than PR3. And, the ftp server for importing themes seems to be down.
;-) -John.
They're going to have to improve it a great deal for me to switch over 100%. I have a major problem with the missing LDAP capability. And, having IM tied to the browser means that I sign off of IM every time Netscape dies. They've got to separate email, IM and the browser into separate engines to fight- even IE's done that.
Sorry for being so down on them. But, I was expecting the new release to be the savior of the free world.
"How can this be!?!" you cry.
Because I use Linux and I have yet to find a way to get Mozilla nightlies to use Java. And I need the Java support along with all the plugins and such.
That being said, I have both Mozilla installed and N6. When I hit a page that needs java, I crank up N6. But I use Mozilla for everything else. As soon as Mozilla gets all the plugins and Java I will be able to remove both N4 and N6. I know N6 is supposed to suck, suck, suck, but I have found it to be pretty good. Mozilla Nightlies are buggy too. Using N6 is like using a milestone build instead of a nightly. It just has the advantage of Java support and a few extras that are from AOL/Netscape.
"Doubt your doubts and believe your beliefs." -- Switchfoot, Ode to Chin
I'm still waiting for the ability to turn Java and/or Javascript on or off by default, and then either specify specific sites to permit one or both, or specific sites to deny from.. I hate it as a global option.. Some sites I have to use require one (or both) to work properly, and while they are sluggish and choppy due to this they at least are using it in a responsible manner. I would like to be able to say "deny java and javascript by default for all sites", and then list specific domains I want to use it on..
Im currently/still downloading NS6 (er, 'installing' it, that is), so I dont know yet wether it supports that.. If it does I've switched, at least until Mozilla has a release that qualifies as 'final' (eg bugs fixed, debugging code turned off)..
Tony
Netscape also includes a POP3/IMAP/SMTP e-mail client (Messenger), an HTML editor (Messenger), AOL Instant Messenger, and Netscape Radio. Furthermore, it also contains a buttload of Java classes for Navigator.
One funny thing: when I clicked on "New Msg", it scolded me for not having a valid e-mail address. Then, it told me: "Netscape is out of memory. Try quitting some other applications or closing some windows." This message appeared even though only 85 MB of 256 MB of physical RAM was used. BTW, this is Netscape version 4.76, so it might be even worse in 6.0. Boy, am I glad that this isn't my computer; I exclusively use IE and Outlook Express since they use MUCH less memory than Netscape does:
netscape.exe: 10448 K
IEXPLORE.EXE: 1752 K
"Ancillary does not mean you get to rule the world." --U.S. Circuit Judge Harry Edwards, speaking to the FCC's lawyer
the uninstaller is one of the quickest and cleanest I've seen. el_doop
Here's my initial reaction. I haven't had time to really try it out yet. It seems rather rough and ready with some glitches that make it look and feel less than professional. I am impressed with how it looks from the themes side of things.
That damn menu bug is still there: I have to hold down the mouse button the whole time or the menu vanishes.
It looks good, and it's very refreshing.
It can be really slow: clicking through the preferences dialog, there's a significant delay between my click and the dialog pane appearing.
If I open a new window from one that is maximised, the new one comes up full size (not maximised), and partly off the screen.
Ctrl+O browses the local disc. Consistent functionality with other products would be nice. It seems silly that Ctrl+O and Ctrl+L functionality can't be merged in a seamless manner. It would simpler in use that way.
Various text fields and text on other controls such as drop lists doesn't fit correctly and gets cut-off.
For some reason, Java was trying to use a proxy on 127.0.0.1:8000. It's supposed to be using my browser settings, but I have it set up for a direct connection (HTTP has a greyed out proxy set from when I was playing around with Junkbuster). I had to actually remove the entry, even though it is disabled.
I miss the drop list completion in combo boxes that I've got used to with IE.
Is it me, or does going back and forth in the history remember my position? This was one of the features that made me give up Netscape in favour of IE. If this is the case, a big "YAY" is in order!
Resizing the window is abysmal: the screen updates are dreadfully slow.
I've been using nightlies since day one. On a whim I decided to install PR3 yesterday and I wasn't impressed. The main Mozilla tree is *far* more stable and usable!
I do remember the days of IE4.0, however. It's pretty much at the same level 4.0 was when it came out. I'll be waiting for 6.1, hopefully when the PDT gets their act together and ships all the pending bugfixes.
Don't ask me why they've branched the tree so early - Mozilla has gone into a climb to 1.0 and the tree has been keeping stable as they do it. If we're lucky, they'll just merge the NS6.0 changes onto the Moz1.0 codebase and they'll have a decent little 6.1 release.
*sigh*
And now hopefully we can have them dedicate much more time to performance and memory footprint. I know it's been getting better but between it and chrome rendering speed, they are definately the biggest barriers to acceptance.
æeee!
Okay,
I wonder how many of the people moaning about Netscape being released too soon actually took the time to install it. I'm typing this in NS 6.0 on win2k, and i have to say i was expecting way worse. I'm quite satisfied with the speed. I haven't crashed yet. And i'm pleasantly surprised with some little details (smooth install - checks all the settings from IE, didn't even have to fill in my password in slashdot). Yes, there are bugs. But nothing that annoys me yet.
All in all, i get the feeling that there's NO way that Netscape can "do good". As pointed out before: or people complain they shipped too late (people were saying they wanted an interim version that saved them from 2 years of netscape 4), or they complain that they ship too soon (not all the(important) bugs closed)
I know what an important argument is: if they ship a non-compliant browser, it's another exception that webdesigners have to watch out for.
However, 2 things:
a) webdesigners have to code for exceptions in any case
b) this netscape version atleast provides a very decent subset of the official spec. if you code for it now, it won't crash and burn completely when viewed in the next version.
The question should be: why would somebody want to change how their browser works (change the UI layout, or whatever) when they want to change the appearance of the program? That's the main thing that has always bothered me about 'themes' and 'skins' -- they seem to get appearance and functionality mixed up together. I always want to be able to move the mouse the same amount and hit a button, no matter what it looks like. In any case, that's why I generally completely avoid themes, just sticking with the default or generic 'themes' for any programs I use.
How can we continue to believe in a just universe and freedom to eat crackers if we have no ale?
that's the sound of my normal, everyday breathing.
With any luck, they'll have incorporated all the current Mozilla bug fixes by Netscape Communicator 6.097g Cesium Edition PR1 (Now with HappyChannelBars!(TM)).
Or better, look at it this way: if AOL/Netscape came out tomorrow and announced that AOL 6.0 was going to rely heavily on a major open-source community codebase, would you be excited to use it?
10 PRINT "This is a"
20 PRINT "Haiku program."
Obliteracy: Words with explosions
Until recently, the only reason I had Netscape 4.7 running at all was that I have McAfee CrashMonitor installed and could "Autofix" the immediate, otherwise fatal, crashing of Netscape and the subsequent crashing of that stupid Feedback Agent that I can't seem to turn off.
Then, sometime last week it started loading without a crash. Curioser and curioser.
BTW, does anyone else have that problem where all of a sudden clicking on a link doesn't work anymore and the only way to get them to work is to reboot? This is also 4.7 on Win98.
Sorry, it was "-255 EXTRACTION_FAILED"
from the one that I downloaded from a link in a slashdot story last week? Or is it the same thing but now they've remembered to tell people? Is it worth another 25Mb? I've only played a little, but last week's one seems OK so far...
"don't fall into the fallacy of believing that Perl can solve social problems. Maybe Perl 6 can, but that's a ways off"
If there is one single thing that annoys me most about IE it's the damn "Organize Favorites" window. That thing is insane! It's too damn small to work with. You can't resize it. It's a pain to move the bookmarks around. I hate the "Add to Favorites" window too. I like the Netscape "File Bookmark" and "Edit Bookmarks" much much better.
It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds. - Captain Hammer
http://members.tripod.com/Proxomitron/
I had problems with Java using the installer that downloads the components form the install (Debian 2.2 x86). So I just downloaded the full version under the ./sea directory and java works fine.
surf over to naviscope and grab their accelerator.
it's a great product, small footprint and seems quite stable, and best of all it works as advertised.
it's got excellent filtering options for blocking ads, on a site-by-site basis, and it's other features make it well worth the download
-- kai
Specialist Mac support for creative pros, Melbourne
Don't look upon Netscape 6.0 as being just another browser to compete with IE - it's not. Look upon Netscape 6.0 as a first taste of the Mozilla platform. This isn't about the browser war - it's about the internet application platform war, and it's one where Netscape are looking very good. Sure, there are bugs, sure it's slow, but look at the technologies that are being implemented - it's elegant and well thought out.
It's kind of assumed that Slashdot readers appreciate the benefits of an open platform, and Netscape 6.0 shows us what will be. History tells us that these initial problems with speed and crashes will be sorted out in time as fixes are applied and hardware gets faster (I'm not advocating bloated code, but it's a fact that hardware is getting faster).
These are exciting times - Linux finally has a state-of-the-art browser available for the masses.
users dislike. buggy and instable. Reasons which finally make the IE from Micro$oft even more popular. Why doesn't Netscape wait until the product is releasable? Just because they heard that IE 6.0 is going to arrive soon? Questions, Questions and I got no answer.
I also have Oracle Jinitiator running, the oracle enterprise manager and Outlook up. So memory is pegged all'round.
I do get some chugs under big websites like www.absolutesega.com, but Cnn, news,com, slashdot.org, sega.net, oracle.com, metalink.oracle.com all work great!
Hi,. 0/unix/linux22/sea/netscape-i686-pc-linux- gnu-sea.tar.gz
:-/ (128MB RAM)
I have been using it since this morning. You can get it directly from
ftp://ftp5.netscape.com/pub/netscape6/english/6
.
I found that everything runs well, and I am replacing my normal netscape with it. It is almost fully configurable, fixes the main bugs with the old netscape (resizing, scrolling) and adds some nice features (dynamic changing of text size using the mouse wheel) as well as being reasonably fast. The few downsides I found were
- memory hog, using about 50 MB of swap now
- stalled once while I was messing around with the configuration.
- cant figure out how to remove/configure the few pixels high bar at the bottom.
I think netscape has done a great job with this, adding in only a few OPTIONAL commercial pieces.
And so far this does seem more stable than the last Mozilla I tried out (M18, not the latest nightly).
Ravi.
--
A mind is a terrible thing to taste.
"A mind is a terrible thing to taste."
Hate to say this but ie has always only shown cached version - NS shows most recent version then caches
Microsoft(tm) - a particular virulent virus that has infected most Pc's.
The first impression was from the installer, which doesn't use Apple's APIs to draw the controls on the screen. Easily one of the worst bastardizations of the Mac interface to be seen on the Mac. It seems that none of it uses Mac APIs for any control-drawing or standard interaction. Right now, if I double-click a word and drag, first the word is selected but when I drag it switches to selecting by character: nonstandard, crappier behavior. Expect that.
I haven't noticed any glaring visual glitches in my usual sites. However, when I clicked the Slashdot Login nutty little box (it forgot all my cookies, apparently), the entire table element that contained it jumped a little to the left. Unexpected, really incredibly strange (I can't imagine how a bug could cause elements to *jump around* without some kind of aliasing - it erased the space left behind when it moved), but I guess within tolerances. Which sums up my NS6 experience till now - still no crashes.
Page rendering times, btw, are incredible. It beats iCab (and iCab beats IE).
But compared to iCab in other ways, this is falling short. There's no standard Mac interface to be seen, and going back to the old Preferences dialog is pretty sad. Although there's no ad filtering, they were thoughtful enough to add an "image blocking" feature, which gets an entire Preferences tab to itself (and there aren't very many tabs), whose sole purpose is to stop loading of images. Shouldn't there be a menu item for that? Practically no cookie control either - it's either "load" or "don't load". You can tell it to accept all cookies from a certain site by clicking "remember this decision" when it asks you the first time (I think), but I haven't seen where to undo that operation.
Of course, it has the IE-style popup sidebar that iCab (semi-)lacks, but I'm pretty happy without one.
Other Netscape-standard behavior is also a pain. If I type "arstechnica" into the navigation bar, it takes me not to "http://www.arstechnica.com" but to a Netscape Search page that doesn't even list Ars' homepage in the first page of search results. Don't expect any overhauls of this kinda thing, it's mainly a facelift.
But it's an update, and it hasn't crashed on me yet. Although being (relatively) independent of the Mac APIs causes nonstandard behavior, which is a pain, that means that it'll probably be maintained better on our platform than before, also.
And it DOESN'T INSTALL ANY EXTENSIONS INTO THE SYSTEM FOLDER! This is the reason I'll be keeping it on my HD as an update to NS4.7 - IE is not for me. And iCab (although less frequently than ever) sometimes doesn't cut it.
Fsck this hard drive! Although it probably won't work...
foo = bar/*myPtr;
Check out Project Upper/Mute, an all-around awesome compiler fra
Here. Download the Native Windows skin for an IE like, Win32 standard interface.
:-)
This isn't to say that MSN Explorer uses a standard interface, or provides the option to. In fact, it somehow uses the IE rendering engine to render pages differently from IE. Cute
And after downloading the 35 meg or so for all the installer files, the installer crashed. I wasn't expecting it to be bug-free, but come on!
Don't think I'll even bother again until 6.1
In a related story, Debian has moved M18-3 into the stable distribution. Apt'ers - on your marks, set, go!
Stop the brainwash
--
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
I've been working on a page that makes fairly heavy use of CSS, particularly the notoriously buggy "float" and "clear" functions. It looks like shit in IE 5 or NS 4.7 (and crashes NS 4.5, so watch out).
NS 6, M18 and IE 5.5 all render it quite nicely. However, Gecko takes a little under ten seconds to render it from my hard drive. IE takes a little under two. That's a pretty bad gap. And I suspect that ordinary users, who don't care about standards compliance or open source, are going to be even less patient with it than I am.
Use Konqueror - it's fast, stable, renders everything, and uses Netscape plugins and Java.
looks like ftp.netscape.com is really in good shape... I downloaded it at 215 K/sec AVERAGE... GO GET IT !!
I got pretty much the minimum download. I notice now that when I run N6, I have a java console icon in my systray (on WinNT4). Dunno why they did this, but everything seems good, renders pages fast. Stupid AOL icon got deleted immediately.
"We apologize for the inconvenience."
The *MOST* Important thing to do is remove *ANY* old mozillareg.dat's, and OLD Netscape Beta profiles and any old stale files.
I had an old profile that it upgraded, but everything just acted goofy, crashed, or rendered wrong (don't know why). After deleting the old profiles and creating a new one everything runs MUCH better, LOOKS much better and doesn't act goofy.
I'm glad they released this one. Its good to have a product they can get contsructive criticism from as well as build a foundation from. Better to ship now to get the product out then delay another 32 months to bloat it.
"And the beast shall come forth surrounded by a roiling cloud of vengeance. The house of the unbelievers shall be razed and they shall be scorched to the earth. Their tags shall blink until the end of days.
from The Book of Mozilla, 12:10"
In Internet Explorer, going to "about:mozilla" results in a totally blank page with a blue (#000080) background, reminiscent of the BSOD. This is a pun at how Netscape crashes all the time.
"Ancillary does not mean you get to rule the world." --U.S. Circuit Judge Harry Edwards, speaking to the FCC's lawyer
It's kind of sad to go to Netscape's home page and see that a news story about the Florida election battles has better page placement than an announcement about a major new version of their flagship product. Well, that is, if they still consider Communicator to be their flagship product.
There are two themes included with this install, Modern (the default) and Classic. Modern isn't too ugly, it's very round. Not Mac-y, but I can put up with it.
Classic is a knockoff of Apple's standard theme. It's supposed to be indiscriminable, but it's obviously a fake. Scroll bars have an arrow on each end and a proportional tab - an impossibility unless you've used a shareware tool to customize your theme. The accent color (used for scroll tabs etc.) is PURPLE. Yuck.
And, dashing my only real hope for it, it doesn't restore standard Mac behavior to the text boxes. Damn.
I forgot one thing in the previous post: the page source display doesn't format the HTML based on tags or anything. It's all plain black. Got some catchin' up with iCab to do there....
Fsck this hard drive! Although it probably won't work...
foo = bar/*myPtr;
Check out Project Upper/Mute, an all-around awesome compiler fra
I just got finished uninstalling Netscape 6 after 5 hours of crashes, improperly displayed web pages, slow slow SLOW load times (on a PowerMac G4), and a poorly designed, kludgy interface that takes up far too much screen real estate (even on my 21" display). The Netscape window has more buttons, widgets, links and arrows than a Rube Goldberg nightmare. Common fonts such as Times don't display correctly, all my AOL Instant Messenger preferences were hosed, I couldnt customize my bookmarks list and the preferences window ALONE had more bugs than I've found in Windows ME and Apple OS X combined. I'm sticking with IE.
"Eagles may soar, but weasels dont get sucked into jet engines."
2x as many people are running Linux that visit the site. Your an idiot. Look at the stats kept by the database. Yoru a looser.
ETRN x
Let's evaluate Netscape on how well it meets the standards (1 and 2 as described above).
Does it meet the functional standard: Many (as much as over 50%) of the pages on the web are designed to take advantage of the browser in domination today. Much the same as it was when Netscape was the functional standard some years ago. IE wrested the crown from Netscape not only from living longer but also from out-performing Netscape in the basice of Netscape 2.0 (and then 3.0 -- by 4.X NS was largely irrelevant) compatability -- I remember long hours of de-bugging JavaScript between releases of Netscape (minor bug-fix releases) that were finally alleviated when we switched our acid tests to IE which although not perfect was more consistent. Now the standard that NS6 has to meet and beat is IE 5.0. Does Netscape do formatting basic scripting, etc. as good as or better than IE5.5 when compared to IE5.0? NO A quick check of a few JavaScript layouts proves the point (JavaScript.COM, GNUFLY, or most any other web site with commonly published JavaScript will point out some major issues -- NS6.0 does not meet the standard). Knowing I'm going to catch a ton of flack from open sourcers out there I need to point out: Linux based users are not the functional standard. IE5.X is on Windows or Mac. This is based on usage, market penetration, and relevance. This standard is listed first because it is the most pertinent -- i.e.: if Netscape cannot redeem itself on this standard or so strongly meet or beat 2 and 3 then it will not survive. The simple fact is: NS6.0 is not compatible with the entrenched standard.
As to standard #2 above -- waiting to hear back from you all on this one. My limited impression is that it may be closer to the academic standard which will make a real difference in the future for those who build their sites to that standard (and not the functional standard as defined above).
On the third point -- Extend -- any product, even if it does not meet/beat the standard in points one and two, can gain significant market share, if not the market by significantly extending either the functional standard or the academic standard. Question: does NS6.0 do this? What new significant feature does NS6.0 have that will force users to use it?
2 bad it w0n't let y0u post 2x within 1 minute.
We all know your black.
ETRN x
Go to here and download the Native.Windows theme.
.xpi file and having it download and install immediately. The latter is also much easier for new users.
It meets the following demands:
* Netscape Gecko(tm) engine
* gets rid of the XP widgets
* the XP interface
* dolls it up to look all cool-and-draggy like IE5 [well, uses an IE like UI with similar icons]
* Releases a strong Mac, Unix and Win32 version, all under the GPL [you can use it on multiple platforms]
It misses this one:
* makes it do all those cool geeky banner/doubleclick elimination features [not yet - that's not UI stuff]
I'm not going to load some dang theme.
Why? If you want native widgets, others might want pixel for pixel compatibility across all platforms. MSN Explorer doesn't use Native widghets. Furthermore it can't render pages IE can, despite using the same rendering engine.
I want the interface to get the hell out of my way so I can use the browser.
Me too. But since we want different interfaces, thank God the lovely Netscape people have provided this funcationality.
The best thing about IE5 is that in 5 seconds from the default install, I can customize it exactly how I want it - small and out of my face. No menus to navigate, just clickin' and draggin. On the other hand, if I wanted everything big and out in front with a big ol' "go" button, I could do that too. It's not about whether it's possible to change things around or not in Moz, it's about whether it's more convenient that it is in IE5. And it isn't.
I disagree. There are more mouse clicks involved in changing the IE UI, spread across so many menus, compared to the bliss of clicking on a
100% standards compliance is a dumb idea. All I want is a browser that loads fast, runs fast, has a brilliant non-interface, is reasonably standards compliant, loaded up with geeky features (tucked away for joeschmoe yet still easy to find and use, of course) with a small memory footprint. I thought this was the promise of Mozilla, but I guess I was wrong.
I don't think your were.
Mike
Thought you might like a screenshot
Cheers,
Mike
A news.com article reports that AOL will soon be mass distributing Netscape 6 on CDs in numerous magazines owned by Time-Warner. Great, the faster sooner users replace their Netscape 4.x installations, the better. Alas, I'll still have to cater to 4.x till 2002, but I look forward to dancing on 4.x's grave.
Did any of the compliance bugs named in Flanagan's petition to postpone the release get fixed before the final release?
> should therefore be able to only download what I
> need
You can. Try the installer.
The weird thing is, there was at least one build I downloaded where I swore the borders disappeared... and I thought to myself, "Damn, that looks a lot better..." And a few days later they were back again. *sigh*
Or maybe I'm just crazy.
I don't suppose anyone's gotten it to work in windows 98 with two monitors?
For me it works fine if it's on the primary display, but if it's on the secondary display the menus and buttons don't work.
Let's see if I can figure out bugzilla....
I've only been using the 6.0 release for about fifteen minutes now, and have noticed that some of the GUI items are broken (setting a theme in Preferences doesn't allow you to click "OK" to get out, among others) and that my Logitech MouseMan's scroll wheel no longer works.
Other than that, I haven't crashed it, and it seems to deal with odd Java and Javascript well enough. It's better for me than MSIE, but not quite as good as iCab.
6.1 should be better, once they get around to bonking the marketroids' skulls who thought that an earlier release with some bugs would be better than a better release a little later...
Specialization is for insects. - R.A.H.
Seems like there is no support in the final NS6 for MathML? See this link for the tex V MML demo page. Anyone know what the plan is here?
Price/Performance: Mozilla
Funny, I don't recall ever having had to pay for IE. And there's an awful lot of posts here about how poorly NS6 is running.
--
Dyolf Knip
1. I hate the MS juggernaut. 2. I really want Netscape (in spite of the fact that the evil Steve Case owns it) to offer a viable alternative to IE. 3. Netscape 6 is awful. 4. I am the webmaster for nsia.org The site works with IE 4+ The site works with NN 4.75 It does NOT work with N6. I don't know why and I don't care. Whether it is problems with layers or images maps. I don't care. 5. I love the Java applets from OpenCube.com They have a new one out called Dynamic Image Menu. They say: works with IE. Yes. it does. It sort of works with NN 4.75. It doesn;t even LOAD with N6. 6. I really want N6 to succeed. But, this is ridiculous. Two sites. Two failures. 7. I give up. ,dave
Dave Barnes 5 breweries within 6 blocks of my house
So it's there. i download it. 20 megs. not too bad considering (note, i didnt get mail, news, or half the plugins.) Nice installer.
Boot it up, loads quite quickly. Go to Slashdot, looks okay. the Gecko engine is showing its stuff, very nice indeed.
Go to news.bbc.co.uk. Not bad. again fast rendering.
Go to an e-commerce site that uses CSS and SSL quite extensively. this works on NS 4.75 and IE5.5 very well, i use it every day.
Netscape 6's handling of CSS is even worse than 4.75, from what i can tell. sometimes it even stops rendering CSS from a linked file halfway through the page. and when viewing pages under SSL, it is SO slow it is unreal.
This looks like a particularly buggy mosaic milestone with AOL tags bunched on it. i will wait for a 6.x release i hear good things about, but nothing until then.
Fross
I see exactly where you're coming from. That's /. for you. Post a meaningful and informative anecdote that is on topic and provides a good example of a buggy product, and get nailed because that product happens to be linux.
Hey moderators, here's some flamebait for you:
I tried recently Mandrake 7 and found out that it chugs the proverbial cock when it comes to reliability, usability, and speed. I finally got it to install on an 8 GB partition, and it ran at about 1/5 the speed of win98 (no sound, no modem). From this standpoint, I have to say that windows is a superior OS when it comes to anything but running a server. The problems with my sound card were a mystery, but the modem is a winmodem which I would never give up for a new OS. These so-often-insulted modems achieve up/down speeds and pings that blow other modems out of the water. $15 gets you a modem that downloads compressed files at 8 KB/s and has a ping of 95ms (to get the ping time, I telneted into a unix box and pinged myself, so don't blame the dos ping command). You people sicken and frighten me with your self righteousness because you embody everything that is wrong with the software industry and society in general.
Ahh, I needed that. I'd keep ranting, but your mothers are particularly horny tonight and they're getting impatient. Bye-eee!
--
Win98 sux without these 1337 toolz !!
The instant messenger, talk about crap! Who's been smoking crack talking up java? Cryminee. The uninstall was very quick, I was amazed. I was also amazed when I tested my association by doing a start->run http://www.someurl.com, to get "Unable to locate NETSCP6.EXE". What a load of crap. I had to hack it out of the registry. Fortunately, the install didn't touch my 4.76 install. That's one good thing. Plus, when I scrolled real fast, I didn't get the java phantom. Yawn.
"Would it kill you to put down the toilet seat?" -- Maya Angelou
Quite interesting -- it was Internet Explorer 5.5 that was showing the cached version, even though it's supposed to expire the cache whenever I restart the browser--I'd just started the browser and loaded /. when I saw the news.
I'd be surprised if MS was deliberately making that page in IE5.5 show an old version, so I'm going to assume that it had to be propogated to all the netscape servers.
Looks okay now.
--
False.t rue);
Mozilla DOES do syntax highlighting.
It's just a has-to-be-documented-but-not-yet feature.
See this bug
Just add this line to your prefs.js
user_pref("browser.view_source.syntax_highlight",
Guvf vf abg n EBG zrffntr
Ya, its already showing up on the webserver logs.
"Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; m18) Gecko/20001108 Netscape6/6.0"
ETRN x
While NS6 (and Mozilla, for that matter) use Gecko and certainly display/load HMTL more quickly than NS4.x, I can't escape a general impression of sluggishness. As I interact with the app (not the HTML it displays), everything updates s-l-o-w-l-y. Go into the Preferences menu, and click on one of the sections on the left. Wait a half-second, and then watch it rebuild the right pane. This is the browser of the future? I like fast HTML as much as the next guy, and Gecko rocks, but until they can get NS6 to not feel so godawful fatiguing, I'm going back to 4.76.
Hey.. a 24Mb download and N6 won't even run! It keeps giving me an invalid page fault in FONTMANAGER.DLL at 014f:502032cf. This is part of the Java 2 stuff installed by N6.
(Celeron 366, 128Mb ram, Win95)
Bah!
DigiDog
Releasing Mozilla 18 as Netscape 6 is akin to releasing Linux 2.4.0-test10 as 2.4.0. They're just not ready. In other news, Glibc 2.2 has been released containing the result of one year's development on the library.
Got friends?
The Win32 version of XEmacs is a 23 MByte install file, and eats 70 MBytes of HD space after install...
"Slashdot - the one place on the internet where guys brag about how small it is." - that IT girl
If development had been focused on top quality, professionalism, and usability, rather than translucent windows and pictures of naked women, we would by this time have a browser entirely based on Motif and using ToolTalk for all its media translation services. We'd be living in an Open Systems (but not necessarily open source) world with truly usable software, not shit like Mozilla.
I want to be able to actually USE my software, I don't care if it "looks cool"!
And no, this is not a troll, I'm tired of getting moderated down as a troll because I don't like the dumbass trendy look of things like GTK and Qt.
Mine runs for more than 5 minutes without crashing, doesn't have memory leaks, and doesn't take longer to render the page than it does to suck it through the modem. I hope yours also accomplishes all those things, too.
Why would I "upgrade" to NS6, if it means breaking all the important things I depend on? Would it be for the sake of standards compliance? Or so I could get that nice warm fuzzy open-source feeling? NS6 gives open source a bad name. "Release early, release often" doesn't mean to release a pre-alpha and call it a beta, or to put out an alpha and call it a release version.
The only minor complaints I have about my current browser (NS 4.72 on MacOS 9) would be fixed by changing to iCab or Opera, not NS6. But those complaints (lousy Java runtime and slow startup) just aren't important enough to motivate me to switch.
--
Find free books.
I have this problem all the time under linux. The only way I've found to deal with it is to forcibly kill all open netscape processes, remove the lock file, and start it back up again.
...downloading as I type. Seems quite fast (80K/s) , off the official servers (Default servers no less). Of course, I am on a T3 so...
What OS are you using mozilla on? If its Linux or Windows, its really easy to add SSL support. Under the Debug Menu, choose Install PSM. Then follow the directions on the page that you get taken to.
--
Preventive War is like committing suicide for fear of death. - Otto Von Bismarck
Though there are many still outstanding bugs, and NS6 is missing some features for full standards compliance, but still this was a very good move for Netscape, and really all of us who want open standards to prevail.
Right now, NS6 is Good Enough (tm) to win back many of the Netscape faithfull and M$ protestors (me included) who unfortunately were forced into using Ie due to the overwhealming crappiness of NS4.7. That brower was pathetic in comparison. NS6 really has closed the gap. And in terms of the whiz-bang factor has leapfrogged miles ahead, which, stupid or not, is an important consideration to many people. By doing this, NS will win back their hardcore following in addition to the many software users who just want the latest coolest thing. They will not obliterate Ie with this release (maybe 6.3 ;-P) but they DO keep themselves relevent. And everyone knows NS is really teetering on the edge or irrelevence. So Props to Netscape.
Now lets hope that 6.1, with full standards compliance comes out really soon. Though in all seriousness, i am shocked as to how much faster and more stable NS6 is than M18.
Nice work.got drum'n'bass?
http://mp3.com/vitriolix
How exactly do they expect people with ordinary phone line modems download something of this size? Sure , in the states you get free local calls to your ISP. Everywhere else in the world you don't and I don't fancy tying up my phone line for 5 hours downloading a bloody browser! How in gods name can a browser be 40megs?? Thats the size of a small OS! All it has to do is render HTML and run Java/Javascript and a few other miscellanious things! Jesus Christ...
Running Net6 on a MacOS9 Machine has been a monsterous disappointment. It fails to load simple DHTML objects that 4.7 could handle with ease. You choose Edit-preferences and wait and wait and wait and CRASH! A full third of the web pages that look fine in Net4.7 are BROKEN in Net6. What a hunk of junk! Why did they release this piece of trash? I hope the browser works better for linux users, than for Mac People.
Errors are necessary for the universe to work, perfection is stagnation.
64 megs of ram minimun to run????? Whats the deal with that???
roche
roche
Bah Humbug!
It seems that the directory service box has been totally left out of NS6's preferences which seems a bit odd since Netscape is the creator of LDAP (right?).
--
A mind is a terrible thing to taste.
"A mind is a terrible thing to taste."
While NS6 (and Mozilla, for that matter) use Gecko and certainly display/load HMTL more quickly than NS4.x, I can't escape a general impression of sluggishness. As I interact with the app (not the HTML it displays), everything updates s-l-o-w-l-y. Go into the Preferences menu, and click on one of the sections on the left. Wait a half-second, and then watch it rebuild the right pane. This is the browser of the future? I like fast HTML as much as the next guy, and Gecko rocks, but until they can get NS6 to not feel so godawful fatiguing, I'm going back to 4.76.
not all programs change the interface to display a theme or skin... winamp compatible skins are only bitmap images that sit on top of the interface to give it a polished look. I wish I knew who thought of this skin idea first (nullsoft?), but I thought nullsoft added a great feature to allow people to design skins for their program.
Works fine under SuSE 7.0 for me. Haven't had any issues today under Win2000 or Linux at the office.
As a free browser, I'm very happy they made all the improvements.
Furthermore, you _can_ specify the editor to use in IE. I just finished setting mine to UltraEdit.
--
Dyolf Knip
So it's true: linux beats window, window beats netscape, netscape beats linux. It's freezed my X window when I want to access the security page.
Maybe on your machine. On mine...
Minimum of invasive advertising: Neither: Netscape and IE both hawked parent company ISPs upon my latest update.
Stability: Netscape 6, esp. with multiple windows opened.
Time to open page in new window: Netscape 6
Time to render new page: Netscape 6
There's no "we" in team, only "me"
under windows: don't reboot, just hit Ctrl+Alt+Del and kill netscape; this works fine with 4.75...
-Do Beowolf-clusters count electronic sheep?
http://kevin.thirdbeets.net/ns6
You'll want to use "wget -r". I would offer the files via FTP, but my college's sysadmin is firewall-anal-retentive.
We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from the machinations of the wicked.
Well, given that "click on the 'make SSL work' button" is too hard for you, it may be some time.
Probably a month or two before the Free Software SSL implementation is polished and bolted on to the Mozilla core.
Meanwhile, find someone real smart and ask them to help you click the button. There, much better isn't it.
(No kidding, there really IS a button which does that, thanks to the wonders of XPinstall)
Then something in your Javascript is very broken. Mozilla's support of W3C DOM1 and DOM2 is better than any other browser's.
Dammit. It doesn't work with all the Javascript I had to write for a site. NS sucks. I already had to code a couple hundred lines just for NS for v4.7 would work somewhat.
Somebody please tell me that my code no longer works because they actually extended the object model and I don't have to jump through those stupid hoops to make a cell change it's background color on the fly!
I don't know about you, but the exclusion of full PAC (Proxy Auto-Configuration) support is a big negative for Netscape 6 and Mozilla. What was AOL/Netscape thinking in releasing this browser like this (one of many things that statement could apply to).
e s/demo/proxy-live.html
8 0
Many, MANY larger institutions (ISP's, corporations, educational facilities) use the PAC's to configure browsers across the board (since IE and NS 4.x both support the proxy standard completely). What is even more peculiar is that Netscape set the standard for the autoconfiguration syntax in the first place.
Reading bugzilla, it appears that much work has to be done in implementing how PAC's worked in the first place with regards to JS wrappers and functions (which most of the important ones are depreciated!). I find this a real issue and a big cause of the lack of adoption for these browsers.
Relavant links:
http://www.mozilla.org/docs/netlib/pac.html
http://home.netscape.com/eng/mozilla/2.0/relnot
http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=530
-woog
is now functional for Linux users! Well done guys!
--
A friend of mine is running Mac OS9 on an IMac and Netscape 6's installer (by default) put >300 files on his desktop. Not just icons, either - mostly XUL files!
Has anybody else seen this behavior? Is it because the root directory on the Mac is the desktop?
http://segment7.net/mozilla/links/l ink s.html It displays all of the links from a document in the sidebar, and can be insanely useful. Go check it out!
--
Eric is chisled like a Greek Godess
marotti.com
I'm just wondering if you use this product of have even tryed to use it yet. We've have now crashed it on linux win 98 win 2k and nt. I have not been able to change the start page or hit some of the most basic sites that contain javascript or dhtml. Now I would expect a release that either didn't support them at all and didn't crash but one that just up and opens a casket everytime you try and do anything real world in it. So while I think there may be people complaining just to complain there are also a lot of people who know what they are talking about and spending time integrating aim into the browser and some of he other for lack of a better word junk into it which does work well they haven't focused on what people who use netscape for browsing the web.
It's great that they put something out.. they really had to. Now lets hope that they can put the service updates, etc. very quickly.
Congradulations to the Mozilla team for the hard work.
--------------------
Let's add some entries to that list of yours.
t s/utils/io.js
* Open Source: Mozilla
* Extensibility: Mozilla
* Platform support: Mozilla
* Price/Performance: Mozilla
* Skin/Theme Support: Mozilla
* Developing fun-factor: Mozilla
* Third party add-ons: Mozilla (Chatzilla, Komodo, ForumZilla, JabberZilla, AIM)
As for the HTML Source option, hell, implement it yourself. Could you do that with IE?
Look at http://lxr.mozilla.org/seamonkey/source/xpcom/tes
For a starter to how to use files from JS.
Mozilla XUL/XBL/JS is fun. Making XPCOM components is fun. I wish GNOME had nice C++ support.
As stated above, Java 1.3 is installed by default on NS6.
I have not had it to work with any nightly build of mozilla.
Vintage computer adverts: http://www.vintageadbrowser.com/computers-and-software-ads
Here's my story: I'm running W2KSP1 here at work on an Athlon 800/256mb. I ran the setup file, it downloaded everything, then quit halfway through the install with "Error occurred during installation: -214 DOES_NOT_EXIST"
;)
Tried it twice more with the same results.
Oh, well, at least their error message makes a lot of sense.
I'll try the Linux version when I get home, but I'm not holding my breath.
Cheers.....
If you're desprate, try right clicking the links and opening them in a new window (or single middle click in X).
I've found that after selecting too much text, too many times, from netscape it won't let you click links anymore also. But otherwise, it works fine (as long as you open the links in new windows).
Strange...
If you could be told what you can see or read, then it follows that you could be told what to say or think - BoC
Memory Usage: IE
Time to execute (time between execution and viable appearance of the window): IE
Java features: Netscape
Java speed: IE (they did tweak Java for speed and stability when they made Microsoft VM)
HTML Source options: IE (IE opens the source in Notepad; Netscape just shows it to you)
Minimum of invasive advertising: IE (Netscape installs the AOL icon by default; at least IE doesn't hawk MSN on its users)
Stability: IE
So the winner in functionality is IE; however, use what you like; browsers ARE a matter of personal preference.
"Ancillary does not mean you get to rule the world." --U.S. Circuit Judge Harry Edwards, speaking to the FCC's lawyer
Be sure to grab some themes at Netscape Theme Park, as well as here. I am using the new Orbit theme, and Sky Pilot. Both themes react very well, and make browsing a lot of fun.
This is just my experience, so YMMV.
When running mozilla, you must run the mozilla executable in the foreground. I usually open up a new xterm, type 'mozilla', and then minimize that window.
If I run 'mozilla &', it will fail just like said.
Mike
By what standard? Grow up asshole.
By the Windows standards. There's a reason they pass in a ShowWindow parameter which says how the window should display.
Si
Coming soon - pyrogyra
But I saw something under Win32 though and it did work, but the installation still failed "cannot find a file on server"...
I think you have to make sure the psm directory where you installed N6 is writable by the user.
>> (unlike a few others, like Quicktime).
.\QuickTime\*.*
.\Quick*.*
.\*.qtx
It's real easy to do this yourself.
Just save the following files:
\progra~1\quickt~1\*.*
And in \windows\system:
Registering the components, file types etc. is done using the QuickTime cpl.
Just my 0.02 cts for the curious..
--Maarten
--[rosso bright]--
It is the same crap as Netscape. The exact same bugs and performance issues.
Please DON'T post Netscape bugs in Bugzilla!
:(
Bugzilla is already too spamed with Netscape bugs
Bugzilla is *only* for Mozilla bugs, please understand that Netscape is based on a *very old* version of Mozilla, and probably they even introduced more bugs in it. If you found a bug in NS test it on the last Mozilla Nightly before posting it to Bugzilla. Thanks!
Best regards
Uriel
- - - - - -
"When in doubt, use brute force." Ken Thompson
Where is it?
It had a few bugs, but nothing out of the ordinary for a x.0 release. It installed two different versions of the Java Runtime (1.3.0 and 1.3.0_xxxx). And it has already crashed once. But that isn't so unexpected. Much better than 4.0 was! I'm sure it will get a lot better with time.
My 2 bits: Why can't Netscape allow drag-and-drop favorites like Explorer? They've stolen most of the other good ideas, but this is one of the big reasons why I like Explorer. It is much easier to just drag a shortcut up to the menu bar than it is to add a shortcut, then edit shortcuts to put it where you want it.
Then it would be nice (although I can see good reasons, such as Unix compatibility) to handle the middle mouse button like most other Windows apps (scrolling).
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
...the widgets on Linux are Windows style. If I wanted windows that's what I'd be using.
Accept Eris as your Fnord and personally sate her
Just downloaded NS6 for my Mac. Wow. Quite an... interesting product. Thing is, I hate it. It's a bloated mass of browser. Resource hungry. Slow. And I can't decide if it's really sleak or horribly ugly. I like the idea of Themes, but Netscape has decided to completely disreguard Mac UI guidelines.
I hate IE5 on my Windows machine, but IE5 for the Mac is great. It's small, efficient, easy on the eyes, and great with web standards.
So far, NS isn't doing so well..
I've followed Gecko and Mozilla for about 10 years now (well it seems like it), and I've never been terribly enthused. They just don't got it.. and I have a feeling AOL is partially to blame.
I *love* the idea of an integrated AIM, but other than that.. blow!
Ok, I gotta get out of this browser before i go crazy...
Chris.
The next comment I write will be ready soon, but subscribers can beat the rush and see it early!
When clicking on a link doesn't work, I've found it's almost always because Netscape has a dialog box up somewhere asking a question. Usually it's been hidden behind something else - you often have to click on another Netscape window or minimise and restore before it'll be visible.
Same here.
On my PIII-733 with RedHat 6.2 I couldn't help but notice that Netscape's use crept up from 80 to 300+ Mb !!! Thank god I didn't try running this on a smaller system.
For now, I think I'm gonna stick to 4.7x thank you.
No electrons were harmed sending this message. Wait,
I have never liked the fact that Netscape and now
Mozilla try to do more than just a browser. What Mozilla should have done is trash the extra junk, news/email, and focused on the browser aspect.
Whatever happened to the philosophy, do one thing
well?
But, like I said, I'm just glad I'm no longer using 150 MB of memory. Yech.
Of course, I've upgraded (yes, a huge upgrade for Linux users, at least) to the 11/16/2000 (21) build of Mozilla. Wow it's a massive improvement over standard Netscape.
--
Ben Kosse
--
Ben Kosse
Remember Ed Curry!