So MS doesn't want 3rd party clients on their network, I say "so what"...
Linux users don't want to run Microsoft OS's - why they heck should they care that they can access the messenger network?
I think it's time we started asking our friends to use something like Jabber. Why we should we adapt to them? Want to IM with me? Okay, fine, go grab any one of the Win32 jabber clients. Done.
Personally, I'm going to do more than that. My company (at least 600 users) wants IM. I've already done a proof on concept with Jabber and lots of different clients. I'm pissed at MS now, I might have waited for us to do Exchange 2000, and it's free IM stuff, but now I'll make sure we do Jabber out of spite. Enough of us do that, and MS will notice.
In a nut shell, we should change the system from within - Fuck MS's IM network. Think RMS style on this one. Start taking MSN support out of free clients ON PURPOSE before MS takes it away.
BTW, I run an MS netowrk , complete with NT, Exchange, IIS, and most of our users on a2k/TermServ/Citrix Farm. I really don't mind using their software at work to run File sharing/Email/Word Processing/Etc. It just freaks me out when I see so many Linux users getting upset about not being able to use a closed network along with users who use a non-free MS product.
It seems to me that alot of "propaganda" and silly things like win32 vs. unix vs. whatever really aren't about the tools themselves, or what the tools can acomplish.
Sometimes the debates are about the design of the tools.
I'm pretty sure the Slashdot crowd, given 2 hammers that work well, can argue on and on about which one is "better." Once they've convinced you that one is designed better than the other, they will go on to say "By the way, your poorly designed hammer will do a fine job for you."
Design and Function are two different things, yet when the debates happen, they often get all mixed up together. Pretty neat to see some of the debates play out anyway though...
So they have to upgrade their existing OS to support newer hardware. Big deal. This is common, even with Linux.
They are running a business, and if it's not good for the business, switching is silly. Doesn't matter which OS we are talking about. I would say they same thing if they were thinking of dumping linux in favor of insert_os_here.
Just upgrade the darn SCO and move on to more interesting problems.
This would be a problem in a company where an application can't run on 2k. What if you need to increase capacity buy adding more servers to a farm? Can't legally buy more copies, and your app doesn't work on 2k, now you're stuck...
I agree though, if you're a home user, or an unlicensed user, tech support from Microsoft doesn't really matter...
By the way, I actually had the oppurtunity to talk to tech support directly once. They solved our problem with a post sp2 fix that wasn't generally released, and the call was free because it was a problem they were aware of. I was impressed, for once...
I've got plenty of NT4 servers in the datacenter and they never give me a problem. Don't fuss with them, reboot them every once in a while, and all is well.
Why can't the slash crowd figure out how to run an NT box? Heck, I've been running a couple hundred users under 2k/Terminal Services/MetaframXPE for a while now, never even had one box go down - I'm so sick of the misconception about Windows reliability. And I'm a Unix geek!
Guess you have to -use- Windows -properly- to figure out that it's stable though...
When did consumers start believing that they had no choice? Just because Nintendo wants to charge crazy prices doesn't mean I have to pay them. Yes, I don't get a gamecube then. But so what! I made my point. I used my wallet as my voice. Believe me, if enough of us stop buying games they will hear us.
By the way. I've never owned a console. I wanted to buy one so that I wouldn't have to upgrade my computer just to play some modern games reliably.
I bought a used dreamcast for 50 dollars at GameStop. The games are usually around 10 dollars and they look great. My main concern was the cost of the games - No way am I going to spend 50 bucks on a single game - and I didn't.
cmon now - i have 7 or 8 win nt/2k machines that I manage. They don't crash. My PDC crashed 1 time in 2 years. It's a file and print server for about 100 local users and the DC for 400. DNS/WINS/DHCP. Now what is it that I'm doing that you aren't? I leave the sucker alone, that's what I do.
Sometimes I really think that part of the problem is that managing a windows box is almost TOO easy. Just leave the suckers alone. Keep your virus scanner up to date. Don't click on every button. Don't apply every patch unless it applies to you. Buy good equipment from reputable vendors. Use their tools dammit. If it aint broke, don't fix it.
This stuff isn't SUPPOSE to be hard. The hard part is doing the easy stuff right. Like taking backups everyday. It's not suppose to be hard to run a file and print server for crying out loud.
But maybe these admins who are always running around with their heads cut off like chickens don't feel like they are doing their job if they are screwing with something?
It's interesting to me that a user can use Microsoft Office 2000 but we can't expect them to edit a text file????
So it's not the editing of the file that is the problem. It's the the product doesn't work out of the box - you have to fix it before you can begin -using- it.
the reality of the matter is that most of the cpu power in our company goes unused.
we are tired of people crying about what cpu speed they have - people were writing memos with 486's and they are still writing memos with the p400's -
Sure, cpu's get faster, but do our jobs change? Take my shipping department for example. A couple of years ago all they had was dos, dos novell, and a dos mrp program. Now they have Windows, NT for networking, Outlook/Exchange, Internet, network laser printers. You name, I gave it to them. Then I look around and I see them doing the same stuff they always did. Printing shipping orders. Talking to customers. Printing more shipping orders. Nothing changed except the technology. I wonder if it was worth it???
At my company, we are tired of the upgrade cycle. We are going server based, win2k + Metaframe. Yeah, we will buy the new cpu's, but they will end up in the data center where they belong and where all users will benefit from them.
geez - i've got a p200 at home that does everything I need it to do. Games, Inet, Star Office, everything.
I don't want faster CPU's at my company. I want faster workers who don't sit around and blame the stinking CPU !
I thought we were all supposed to be jumping through the hoops to buy support for linux from these companies? Maybe we don't do that?
so now they are going to charge a per seat fee. So we have some linux companies acting like MS and RMS doesn't like it. Big deal. I don't like a lot of things.
I suppose it's sad for the industry, but in my opinion this is just part of "survival of the fittest." Let these companies die out - new ones, who can find a way to make money with Linux, will take their place and everybody will be better off.
This is -exactly- the way it is supposed to work. Evolution baby - can't stop it. Mass extinction is common. But new, better designs always follow (hopefully a design that will produce better distro's and revenue for the companies that develop them)
Slashdot Mirror
perhaps it was redhat -
hehe, If SCO wins, so do they!
red hat is going after the enterprise - but didn't linus start developing linux so he could run unix on his 386 desktop?
If a small game developer can't afford to be in business, well, perhaps that game developer should get out of that business.
Yeah, the customer might not get what they want, but they should go and spend their money somewhere else then...
why are linux users afraid of change?
Uptime.
So MS doesn't want 3rd party clients on their network, I say "so what"...
Linux users don't want to run Microsoft OS's - why they heck should they care that they can access the messenger network?
I think it's time we started asking our friends to use something like Jabber. Why we should we adapt to them? Want to IM with me? Okay, fine, go grab any one of the Win32 jabber clients. Done.
Personally, I'm going to do more than that. My company (at least 600 users) wants IM. I've already done a proof on concept with Jabber and lots of different clients. I'm pissed at MS now, I might have waited for us to do Exchange 2000, and it's free IM stuff, but now I'll make sure we do Jabber out of spite. Enough of us do that, and MS will notice.
In a nut shell, we should change the system from within - Fuck MS's IM network. Think RMS style on this one. Start taking MSN support out of free clients ON PURPOSE before MS takes it away.
BTW, I run an MS netowrk , complete with NT, Exchange, IIS, and most of our users on a2k/TermServ/Citrix Farm. I really don't mind using their software at work to run File sharing/Email/Word Processing/Etc. It just freaks me out when I see so many Linux users getting upset about not being able to use a closed network along with users who use a non-free MS product.
It seems to me that alot of "propaganda" and silly things like win32 vs. unix vs. whatever really aren't about the tools themselves, or what the tools can acomplish.
Sometimes the debates are about the design of the tools.
I'm pretty sure the Slashdot crowd, given 2 hammers that work well, can argue on and on about which one is "better." Once they've convinced you that one is designed better than the other, they will go on to say "By the way, your poorly designed hammer will do a fine job for you."
Design and Function are two different things, yet when the debates happen, they often get all mixed up together. Pretty neat to see some of the debates play out anyway though...
Don't fix it.
Duh.
So they have to upgrade their existing OS to support newer hardware. Big deal. This is common, even with Linux.
They are running a business, and if it's not good for the business, switching is silly. Doesn't matter which OS we are talking about. I would say they same thing if they were thinking of dumping linux in favor of insert_os_here.
Just upgrade the darn SCO and move on to more interesting problems.
I think that you can't buy it either....
...
This would be a problem in a company where an application can't run on 2k. What if you need to increase capacity buy adding more servers to a farm? Can't legally buy more copies, and your app doesn't work on 2k, now you're stuck...
I agree though, if you're a home user, or an unlicensed user, tech support from Microsoft doesn't really matter
By the way, I actually had the oppurtunity to talk to tech support directly once. They solved our problem with a post sp2 fix that wasn't generally released, and the call was free because it was a problem they were aware of. I was impressed, for once...
oh yeah - i forgot something - buy your hardware from a reliable vendor. We use compaq. Everything is compaq server class machines -
install NT on some crap from Walmart, and yeah, perhaps it's less stable. But if you put it on crap hardware, you're the problem, not the OS...
God I hope we aren't running RedHat on e-machines in the datacenter....
You know, you're post may be funny...but...
I've got plenty of NT4 servers in the datacenter and they never give me a problem. Don't fuss with them, reboot them every once in a while, and all is well.
Why can't the slash crowd figure out how to run an NT box? Heck, I've been running a couple hundred users under 2k/Terminal Services/MetaframXPE for a while now, never even had one box go down - I'm so sick of the misconception about Windows reliability. And I'm a Unix geek!
Guess you have to -use- Windows -properly- to figure out that it's stable though...
an example of a particularly well written java desktop application is the Citrix Management Console that ships with Metaframe XPE -
I just hate when I right-click on something and it doesn't appear to be selected, not sure if that is a Java thing or not...
When did consumers start believing that they had no choice? Just because Nintendo wants to charge crazy prices doesn't mean I have to pay them. Yes, I don't get a gamecube then. But so what! I made my point. I used my wallet as my voice. Believe me, if enough of us stop buying games they will hear us.
By the way. I've never owned a console. I wanted to buy one so that I wouldn't have to upgrade my computer just to play some modern games reliably.
I bought a used dreamcast for 50 dollars at GameStop. The games are usually around 10 dollars and they look great. My main concern was the cost of the games - No way am I going to spend 50 bucks on a single game - and I didn't.
boy the linux world really has come a long way.
mouse issues are now "one of my two biggest problems."
I remeber when way back when people used to pick distributions based on things like package management or kernel features.
cmon now - i have 7 or 8 win nt/2k machines that I manage. They don't crash. My PDC crashed 1 time in 2 years. It's a file and print server for about 100 local users and the DC for 400. DNS/WINS/DHCP. Now what is it that I'm doing that you aren't? I leave the sucker alone, that's what I do.
Sometimes I really think that part of the problem is that managing a windows box is almost TOO easy. Just leave the suckers alone. Keep your virus scanner up to date. Don't click on every button. Don't apply every patch unless it applies to you. Buy good equipment from reputable vendors. Use their tools dammit. If it aint broke, don't fix it.
This stuff isn't SUPPOSE to be hard. The hard part is doing the easy stuff right. Like taking backups everyday. It's not suppose to be hard to run a file and print server for crying out loud.
But maybe these admins who are always running around with their heads cut off like chickens don't feel like they are doing their job if they are screwing with something?
It's interesting to me that a user can use Microsoft Office 2000 but we can't expect them to edit a text file????
So it's not the editing of the file that is the problem. It's the the product doesn't work out of the box - you have to fix it before you can begin -using- it.
the reality of the matter is that most of the cpu power in our company goes unused.
we are tired of people crying about what cpu speed they have - people were writing memos with 486's and they are still writing memos with the p400's -
Sure, cpu's get faster, but do our jobs change?
Take my shipping department for example. A couple of years ago all they had was dos, dos novell, and a dos mrp program. Now they have Windows, NT for networking, Outlook/Exchange, Internet, network laser printers. You name, I gave it to them. Then I look around and I see them doing the same stuff they always did. Printing shipping orders. Talking to customers. Printing more shipping orders. Nothing changed except the technology. I wonder if it was worth it???
At my company, we are tired of the upgrade cycle. We are going server based, win2k + Metaframe. Yeah, we will buy the new cpu's, but they will end up in the data center where they belong and where all users will benefit from them.
geez - i've got a p200 at home that does everything I need it to do. Games, Inet, Star Office, everything.
I don't want faster CPU's at my company. I want faster workers who don't sit around and blame the stinking CPU !
I thought we were all supposed to be jumping through the hoops to buy support for linux from these companies? Maybe we don't do that?
so now they are going to charge a per seat fee. So we have some linux companies acting like MS and RMS doesn't like it. Big deal. I don't like a lot of things.
I suppose it's sad for the industry, but in my opinion this is just part of "survival of the fittest." Let these companies die out - new ones, who can find a way to make money with Linux, will take their place and everybody will be better off.
This is -exactly- the way it is supposed to work. Evolution baby - can't stop it. Mass extinction is common. But new, better designs always follow (hopefully a design that will produce better distro's and revenue for the companies that develop them)
peace!