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MSN Messenger Access To Be Restricted
linuxwrangler writes "According to Infoworld, Microsoft has announced that as of October 15 some third-party software and older versions of MSN Messenger will no longer be able to log in to their Instant Messaging service. Microsoft cited 'security issues', but declined to offer specifics. The company sent an email alert to Messenger users, but users reported thinking the message was a hoax or virus after receiving over a dozen copies of the email."
will this affect Gaim in any way?
It's not vendor lock-in if someone else has the key. So yeah, it is a security measure. ;)
so will this mean gaim users will be out in the cold too? Oh well, good reason not to use MSN based IM.
CB
free ipod and free gmail!
.... bullshit!! They just want to close off their service.
Now I feel sad. Not even Microsoft wants to email me.
Does any one know witch version of msn jabber emulates?
I really really want to keep useing jabber for my IM stuff (its not like I have a whole heck of a lot of choice , but running msn in wine is not my idea of a fun time).
The trillian developers are probably working on it as we speak
So in a nutshell, I may be forced to run windows on my desktop machine if there is no opensource client alternative. I can only hope that there will be some way to get around this.
Microsoft cited 'security issues', but declined to offer specifics.
The "security issue" is, of course, the "leak" of vital advertisement money they would be getting (:
who exactly is buying "Trusted Computing"
Yeah, that sure worked out great for AOL.
this sucks! who wants to use ad-filled msn! What a power grab! That's it, everyone switch to jabber!
Oh, ya... this is microsoft we are talking about.. get people using it, then take control of it.
Good way to cut off *nix users too..
And yes i realize its their software, their network but i thought at one point they said it would remain open...
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Seeing as how the IM market is fairly competitive, and all those work with Trillian as well, is there any reason people wouldn't just leave MSN IM? Or is their service really that popular? (it's the only trillian service I've never used)
Education is a better safeguard of liberty than a standing army.
Edward Everett (1794 - 1865)
Oh come on, you can't keep all the security problems to yourself you greedy bastards!!!
didn't AOL try to blobk trillian as well.... look how well that worked :) I use trillian to talk on ICQ, AOL, Yahoo, and MSN - I feel no need to run ALL those proggys - in fact I wish I only used 1, but some friends absolutely refuse to switch to anything other than - whatever happened to the days when everyone I knew was using ICQ and occassionally meeting up with eachother in an IRC room or web forum?
Ave Molech Setting
"We are very interested in interoperating with all third parties, there just needs to be a formal agreement,"
Requiring formal agreements could be a sly way to keep open source software out. How would an open source project go about making such an agreement?
No more using 5.0... :(
Who uses msn, anyway? I thought almost everyone uses the AIM part of Gaim or irc or something.
Just a couple of years ago? Now they decide that they don't want to play with others now.
Here's one of the many stories on it:
http://net4tv.com/voice/Story.cfm?storyID=1693
...or do we just have to scroll to the bottom of the page to find the Trillian-compatible Messenger version?
I use all four major IM services (AIM, ICQ, Yahoo, MSN), because I run a web host and I need to be able to be contacted by anyone. If MSN won't let me integrate all of my IM services into one client, then I won't use them. Simple. My desktop is crowded enough as it is with just ONE IM client. I'll be sad to not be able to service my MSN-using customers, but that's the way things are.
Make me a friend and I'll mod you up
from the article:
:)
"It is our expectation that those who use our service with unlicensed or unauthorized third-party clients will likely not be able to log on after Oct. 15," Sundwall said. "We would encourage those third parties to contact us to work out agreements by which they can continue to have their customers access our network."
So....then I guess third parties will likely not be able to use the service but apparently MS is fine with them contacting them to work things out. Doesn't seem so bad. Unless of course MS starts charging exorbatant fees for third-party users of the protocol. Which would be pretty insane. For now, benefit of the doubt is what I'll give. Partly b/c I'm crazy
This is pretty bad news. I wonder if this is the first step in the process of charging for MSN messenger usage.
to use more open alternatives. AIM anyone?
Wouldn't have anything to do with this announcement would it?
They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty nor security
I once used GAIM exclusively until I started using MacOS (learning experience... I still use Linux but not as my correspondence machine.) Anyway, I am relatively certain that the GAIM folks will come up with a way to allow connectivity. There will always be a way... just gotta keep on patchin'
SCO has Intellectual Property in both Trillian and MSN Messenger, and will soon sue users of both out of existence.
The implication that a network is more secure by only allowing MS developed software to access it is bunk. There is no logical reason why restricting clients and implementing security-through-obscurity will reduce anyone's exposure to network security problems.
Well, I guess it would reduce Microsoft's exposure since everyone using the network would have agreed to a Draconian EULA that stripped them of all their rights.
Be assured, this is not about security, it is about control.
get msn6 it rules too much anyways... make j00r own smilies ;) yeah baby
This follows closely on the heels of the FCC's lifting of the restrictions on AIM, as discussed recently. Seems that MS thinks that if AIM can get away with locking people out, so can they.
This account verified sig-free since..., uh, never mind.
What would really surprise me is if they actually use some GPLed public/private key encryption!
Get rid of everything Micro and Soft: Buy Viagra and/or Linux
Ok I can understand Microsofts want to have people use THEIR client, but I'm sorry some of us don't use windows and need to talk to people who are on windows based systems and happen to use MSN. I'm sure that there will a patch around this almost immediatley, but still :-\ quite annoying.
Microsoft: instead of making your protocol HARDER, offer the features people obviously want: a cross protocol client, if you make it slick, easy, free, etc people won't use trillian, they will use yours.... especially if you bundle it. Just don't shut down your network to the "outsiders"
Security.... yeah, security my big toe....
I only used my MSN Messenger account when I really needed to before. Now I won't use it at all. There are other IM services out there, and Microsoft's wasn't a particularly GOOD one anyhow...
"Oh my God. This is terrible. This is the end of my Presidency. I'm fucked."; ~ Donald J. Trump
The company sent an email alert to Messenger users, but users reported thinking the message was a hoax or virus after receiving over a dozen copies of the email.
So have all the M$-targetted email worms actually done something besides be an annoyance?
On second thought, it's just Microsoft employee stupidity for sending multiple copies.
The IM community is so partitioned now, that most users have to run 2-4 different clients in order to talk to all of their friends. What about a service that is open, cant be bought out, and will last for a long time?
Has anyone run into a decentralized IM service?
AOL tried this for a long time and failed miserably. Remember when MSN was attempting to convince AOL to open up AIM?
Then you should definately take a look at Messenger Plus. Amazing 3rd party "plugin", including ad-removal.
Microsoft created Messenger and they have the right to do whatever they want with it.
They have the right to restrict other software from trying to connect to their services.
Fascinating how Microsoft is using AOL's *excuse* to block third parties from accessing MSN Messenger? I seem to recall AOL using this reason to block MSN and others from its users and Microsoft responded by helping to set up IMUnified as a pressure group to convince the FTC and the FCC to require AOL to open up the AIM network to them... I love hypocricy (sic, if I spelled that incorrectly!)...
"Right now, somewhere in this world, Scott Baio is plowing a woman he doesn't love," - Peter Griffin, *Family Guy*
I despise MSN messenger and uninstall it as soon as I can anyway. I can't stand it. Microsoft sux n e way. ICQ was the best until AOL got their grubby hands in there. Looks like IRC is the only way to go 4 me.
AOL didn't allow Trillian on their network for a long time, citing bandwidth and resource use from people who weren't looking at the integrated AIM ads or using the AOL service. AOL insisted that third-party clients use the vastly inferior TOC protocol to connect to the AIM network instead of letting third-party clients use their proprietary OSCAR protocol.
So what did the engineers at Trillian and GAIM do? They reverse-engineered the OSCAR protocol and Trillian and GAIM can now use the AIM network again.
If Microsoft locks down their network, I give it all of 3 days before Trillian and others can access it again. AOL tried and was unsuccessful. I doubt Microsoft will be able to stop this for long considering the negative publicity (and Trillian patch) that would result.
Simpli - Your source for San Jose dedicated servers and colocation!
According to this discussion on the Cerulean Studios website, their new version of Trillian Pro already supports the MSN 6 protocol, and thus should not be affected by this change.
It's already in beta testing, and should be out before the deadline.
-- This sig for rent.
From the article:
"We would encourage those third parties to contact us to work out agreements by which they can continue to have their customers access our network."
Sundwall would not comment on what type of agreement Microsoft would want with third-party IM software providers. "We are very interested in interoperating with all third parties, there just needs to be a formal agreement," he said.
Yep. Sounds like M$ is really out to crush the competition and strike a blow to open source. Yep, they're being completely unreasonable here. Light the torches boys, we've got a rabbelous mob to form!
no thanks
Since when did security issues keep software off the street?
Thanks Microsoft, for breaking the IM unity that Trillian was successful at providing. Is it just me, or does this paint M$ as a sore loser?
-jc
Well, rampant worms and other exploits of ridiculous security holes may be having their merry way with computer systems worldwide, and the traffic those generate may be slowing down the internet, but THANK GOD the Microsoft brain trust is making sure that their IM software is water-fucking-tight! Bravo, minions of Bill, bravo!
/me stands up to applaud.
~Philly
Quote from the linked article:
"It is our expectation that those who use our service with unlicensed or unauthorized third-party clients will likely not be able to log on after Oct. 15," Sundwall said. "We would encourage those third parties to contact us to work out agreements by which they can continue to have their customers access our network."
Sundwall would not comment on what type of agreement Microsoft would want with third-party IM software providers. "We are very interested in interoperating with all third parties, there just needs to be a formal agreement," he said.
Still BS, but at least it's not the usual "shut off and don't answer questions policy".
Do we read this as: The upgrade is required because "we can't track the behavior of our Messenger users " with the older versions of the Messenger clients and third party clients, he said, declining to specify those issues.?
A similar action by talkcity.com about 4 years ago killed the activity in its chat rooms, wonder if Microsoft will let that happen or use strong arm techniques to keep the users!
There are two kinds of egotists: 1) Those who admit it 2) The rest of us
This should stop the IM spam.
That's right folks, this is just going to get worse and worse, with each IM service locking down the clients for "security concern$".
jabber, on the other hand, is an open protocol, and by nature, and third party clients are encouraged.
I've been exclusive on jabber for 6 months now. If anybody really wants to chat with me, they can do so through jabber ( skennedy@qualitydentists.com )
Mod me down with all of your hatred and your journey towards the dark side will be complete!
Wasn't it not that long ago that Microsoft was putting out white papers on the MSN Protocol for others to use in programming clients?
... do you see something like this:
uh huh... ... bullshit!!
(Score: 2, Insightful)
What is it about microsoft articles that cause the average IQ to plummet around here?
In all matters of opinion, our adversaries are insane. -Oscar Wilde
What... you're surprised by this?
then I say, "Fine by me." I'll just use some other service, such as AOL's AIM. I would never use a M$ Internet service in the first place, partly because I fully expect Microsoft to pull crap like this on a regular basis.
Anyone up for a mass exodus?
I'm installing Trilian as I type, and digging out my ICQ number. I'll use MSM to hand this number (and the URL of trillian - http://www.trillian.cc) to my friends over the next couple of months. After that Gates can damn well go ahead and instigate his pay-per-type service, or whatever evil M$ Tax he thinks up next. Does he ever wonder why nobody ever has anything good to say about his business and software practices?
Don't tell me you people actually use that protocol (in any original or clone IM).
For you trillian users:
Here is a Link that seems to think trillian and other 3rd parties using the "newer" protocol will be ok.
I only know about 2 people that use MSN anyways and I hated having to make an account just to IM them.
I guess it's time to send them a message saying I'll no longer be using Messenger and that they can get me on ICQ or AIM.
This will also remove the one reason I've been reluctant to try iChat A/V (no MSN support).
Dear Beta Tester, We are pleased to announce that Microsoft(R) Office Live Communications Server 2003, Standard Edition (formerly known as "RTC Server" and "Greenwich") has been released to manufacturing.
...
...
The Microsoft Office Live Communications Team
They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty nor security
The only reason I use Msn is because most of my friends and clients use it, so I kinda have to use it if I want to keep in touch. No, They're too lazy to move to something else. This really sucks because up to now I've been using 4.6 and refuse to upgrade to the bloated piece of shit that MSN 6.x is.
I also develop plugins for Msn plus, and like the fact that msn 4.x is nice, small and fast to start up when debugging.
I want a fast, small, simple IM app. Not a freaking huge application that takes up half of the screen , gaming centre, washes my dishes, takes care of the kids, walks the dog. I cannot stand that program, I tried it twice but no! I hate it. This really sucks.
Hopefully it will be rev eng soon. dmca? ARGH@#$
[alk]
This is pretty typical of Microsoft though, so it isn't really any surprise is it?
[1] Attempt to crack market with new software
[2] Bundle software with OS - make pain in ass to remove
[3] wait for large user base to build
[4] close off to other vendors (you are here)
[5] wait for competition to die off
[6?] China decides to make it's own impementation =P
Well, given that Jabber is already a great messenger protocol, why not switch? Surely this is a push factor of some order of magnitude. I don't hate MS for the sake of hating, but surely this says nothing but "fuck 'em".
A great client using a great protocol.
I would sooner lose tenuous friends than have to run Windows on my desktop.
So, let me recapitulate this day of "news" on Slashdot:
fagot, whore, foot, fuck, dick, lemon, nigger, haal-embood(!), teh, uh, klog
After circumventing the access control layer one of two things will take place:
Micro$oft will claim some sort of copyright on some of the data stored on their servers. This is not have to be the messages. It could be the compliation of the directory information of the user. By circumventing their access control you have gained access to a protected copyrighted work. DING DING DING DMCA VIOLATION DING DING DING
Since all communications must go through Micro$oft's (or their duly delegated agent's) servers, by circumventing the access control layer you have gained unauthorized access to a protected computer system. DING DING DING USA PATRIOT VIOLATION DING DING DING
Of course we all know why Micro$oft is really doing this:
Lock in - Keep users in your system and don't let them talk to other systems either by your own client or by some third party client.
Security through legality - This is one more piece of legal wrangling they can use to avoid any realy responsibility about any security concerns. Any security breach would require an exploit that the MSN client is not programmed to do. Thus any exploit would require writing a different client or modifing the MSN client. Either way this is an unauthorized client and the DMCA and the USA PATRIOT Act can be used.
Same too ya - Uhhh, AOL is doing it to MSN so MSN is doing it to AOL.
Gee, I guess I'll just use that analog, electro-mechanical, voice messaging system that the FCC won't let the baby bells completely destroy.
Ah, yes... I remember so fondly the pioneering days of Trillian, when I'd patch two, three times a day to maintain AIM connection. How excited I would get, coming back from classes and wondering if yet another release due to "flap error" was going to be necessary!
It made Trillian that much more exciting to use, all the more so because I loathed (and continue to loathe) AOL so much. Of course, I always had ICQ to fall back on. Then AOL bought them and drove them into the ground.
What we need is an open source, secure protocol for chatting, newly implemented for today's uses. I'm getting tired of chatting over AIM, just because it has something to do with AOL. Yahoo I don't like either, nor MSN, or ICQ for above mentioned reasons. And other chat programs with half-standards aren't at all what we need at all. There are more than enough able geeks out there, some solution shouldn't be too difficult to organize a consortium to address the situation. Mayhap I smell an Ask Slashdot in the future.
After 10/15 I won't be able to use the last version of MSN that works on the Classic MacOS! And some Macs are just not well-equipped to run MacOS X. My Blue G3 can run it, but my Wallstreet Powerbook isn't so lucky. Oh well, I'll just have to tell everyone to contact me via either AIM or YIM. Or IRC which I'm usually on all the time anyway.
Knowledge is power. Knowledge shared is power multiplied.
New chat buddy, eh? Hmm....are you cut or uncut?
Write back,
BigBoned69
At least I thought one of the reasons for using Trillian was because you could make it use encryption and stuff.
I tried trillian and I couldn't get it to work. I could get ms messenger to work sometimes but mostly couldn't be stuffed. All the chat/instant messanger things were banned at work, you had to get special permission from the Lan Admin. Something to do with keeping bandwidth use down or stopping time wasting.
Of course the Lan Admin used his to find a girl, and fall in love...
Sigh. The only one I used regularily was ICQ - ironically to solve work problems in my new job.
-- it must be true, it's on the internet.
Everyone i know has an AIM account. Who cares what happens to MSN?
This is pretty bad news. I wonder if this is the first step in the process of charging for MSN messenger usage. ...will never happen as long as AOL's free. People will just give MSN messenger a big Fuck You and move over to AOL (which is a GREAT service) or even the marginal Yahoo Instant Messenger.
The samba team unravelled SMB so I'm sure it won't take long to "fix" this
Rus
Cheap UK and US VPS
So that's why Microsoft allowed the leak of MSN Messenger 6.0. When I first saw it, and the fact that it was being leaked over and over very quickly, I thought it was odd. Then Microsoft released their own pre-released version. Everyone I know who uses MSN Messenger went to 6.0 like flies on ... stuff flies like.
But not very many people I knew who ran the clones went over to 6.0. It's all just to convenient.
A programmer is a machine for converting coffee into code.
Wrong. They said they want to have formal agreements with third-party software. Interoperability is still there.
This is a non-story.
"Sufferin' succotash."
1. It is decentralized, like email.
2. Anyone with a domain can use it, even on a lan that isn't connected to the internet. I am sheenmaster@frob.us
3. It has "transports" to access the other IM services.
4. It has clients for literally everything, and is easy to program for.
get it
You can't judge a book by the way it wears its hair.
Trillian rocks for me... I actually *bought* it, (funny concept, buying software, eh, linux users?) and it's worked beautifully for me. I have friends who use different protocols, as well as linux friends, so this royally sucks...
------- "From bored to fanboy in 3.8 asian girls" ----------
It appears this may be just affecting MSN's older protocols (MSNP7 and below). See this post and this link, which is referenced in the post.
BTW, I use Miranda and think it's a great Open Source alternative to Trillian. Check it out.
the only reason I use Trillian to access MSN Messenger in the first place is because the newest upgrade of Messenger locks up my computer. Maybe if MS could make something more stable than Trillian, they wouldn't have to worry about their competition.
Microsoft's IM letter means you agree to pay and upgrade
END USERS OF Microsoft's Instant Messenger software that got multiple copies of a mail advising them to upgrade yesterday need to read the fine print of the firm's terms and conditions most carefully.
The end user licence agreement (EULA) for the new version of Instant Messenger has some clauses that suggest changes are afoot in the way Microsoft deals with this popular little software item.
By clicking on the new agreement, users promise to pay for future upgrades and to acquire future chargeable upgrades whether they're wanted or unwanted.
Read on...
What does this mean? It could mean that Microsoft may charge fees whenever it wants, and that you also have to stop using the software if the firm decides.
Always read the fine print. If Microsoft addes this particular clause to operating systems, everyone might be forced to utter "Hail Palladium" when the push came to shove.
The less they have to worry about catering to others, or time spent on monitoring 'others' on their products or network is time they can spend in their deployment of the one product end user goal. We've seen a glimmer of that mindset when last week they announced that the reason for BSOD's was outside programing etc.... LI}But eventually changes like this that ostracize entire portions of computer users will eventually lead to the better development by those who subscribe to deviant technologies. So in the end this move could start off the stages needed as a catalyst for better development and increases onward and upward.
Let's keep in mind that patents are in place to keep lawyers employed and keep them litigating. -CatGrep
Remember back in 1999? It was MSN who was complaining that AOL wouldn't play nicely with them. Now MS throws their IM-bot in with windows, and makes it frustrating to remove if installing Outlook, and then closes the door.
But don't think AOL is now held irresponsible in this battle. A few months ago, AOL asked the FCC if it could break the rules. It seems yesterday, AOL announced it would go ahead and break the rules.
It sounds like there needs to be a group "time-out". Everybody goes to their corner and sits for 5 minutes.
It's not a "sly way to keep open source software out"*, it's a not-so-sly way to counter OTHER people getting ad revenue/sales off YOUR network service, among other things.
MSN messenger only really makes money off:
(last two being market-share 'enhancers')...which is pretty much why AOL offers AIM independently too. When a client like Trillian is a)letting people use your service without showing you ads and b)letting users talk to anyone on any network...well, now, you've just shot 2 out of 3 reasons for MSN messenger's free-ness, haven't you?
Not to mention, someone at MSN's sales deparment finally realized "Hmm,, people are making money SELLING a client for our network! Hey! I bet WE can get a piece of that money!" They probably approached Trillian, Trillian probably told them to go screw, and MSN said "hah, watch us pull the plug". So, basically, Trillian etc will be forced to sign an agreement forking over xx% of their [gross/net/whatever] sales, the business world will perhaps do a little more than yawn, and the sun will rise tomorrow...meanwhile, Instant Messaging Planet will generate a dozen news stories and at least one conference over the whole thing ;-)
* let's drop the persecution complex, for crissakes- companies do things for one reason, and one reason only- to MAKE MONEY, not join The Man in fucking open source over.
Please help metamoderate.
MS have the right to do whatever they want with their IM. They created it and it's their business. Besides, their EULA probably also gives them the right to burn your computer and rape your sister, so might as well cope with it... However, what is disapointing is that microsoft somehow forged its place among IM users (and somehow dislodged ICQ), and now they are, as usual, simply abusing the users they got from a free service in order to force them to play by their own rules and probably to pay later. And this happens just a few weeks after their new avatar/eye-candy-ish MSN 6.0, just enough time to let people become addicted to this crap (hey... it's realy cool!) Another disapointing thing is that I got 7 e-mails from microsoft about this new "rule" of theirs - the same day I read that there's a new worm in town sending fakemails. Well, the mails ended up in the junk folder. Very unprofessional. I can hardly believe that it was not the worm... So, they're doing it for "security issues"? Yeah, like they're about security anyway... And like MSN messenger is secure... I should stop whining, because someone WILL find a way to use older versions of MSN or Gain, or whatever on their network anyway. By the way, among home Windows user, did anyone realy pay for anything from microsoft anyway? Should anyone complain?...
You are more than the sum of what you consume. Desire is not an occupation.
Suprise! Micro$oft is doing weird ass shit again in the name of "security."
I know a lot of people use the MSN messanger, but please...If you don't like what they're doing let them know by not using their product.
What advantages are there to using MSN messanger over AOL IM anyway? With the upcoming deregulation of AOL IM by the FCC we may have a better messanging product (from another evil, though *seemingly* less cryptic corporation.)
And the myopic viewpoint:
Do you really want Microsoft to read your instant messages anyway?
Microsoft will be shutting down this security and spam risk as well, right? Seeing as how they are security concious all of a sudden. Or maybe they'd care to fix this problem, labelled a major security issue by the FBI. Or perhapse this URL exploit in SP1?
Come on, MS. You can do better this blatant attempt to isolate your market under the guise of a security issue, especially when there are so many more important ones that have been left lying around for so long now...
You need a FREE iPod Nano
just send them by instant message
I don't watch MSN's security flaws very closely (an almost impossible task from what i have seen) but it seems to me that the security flaws are in their client, not thier servers. In fact, i've heard of only a few successful breakins to microsoft's core messaging servers (probably because i stopped watching around the time they started swtiching to windows for their servers.)
Please keep in my that my ADHD keeps me a little scatter brained and I sometimes can't focus long enough to
You know, the LAST time they said this, you either had to agree to an NDA that precluded an OSS implementation. The "formal agreements" there were pretty clearly only for other commercial (because of the licensing fee) & closed source vendors.
I have for the past few months being trying to consolidate my personality into a few well defined slivers ...
- handling different email identities with a single email package has helped a lot, and the fact that I can receive messages from different boxes, and send messages from different boxes - all from a single application is godsent
... MS has a product called Outlook which dominates the market ..
- I also am warming up to password management programs so that I have fewer passwords to forget
... MS came up with something that was supposed to help me - PASSPORT
- I am trying to consolidate my "buddy" personalities into a manageable interface, and Trillian helps me. Now, wouldn't it be nice if MS came up with a product like they have done for earlier needs. But, no sir, they got nothing in this category. So, what do they do. They try to destroy the entire category.
I think this is unfair. I think this is injust. I think this is immoral.And I think it is worse.
Instead of helping me manage my different identities, MS is actually doing the opposite. MS is driving me to multiple personalities. MS is driving me to schizophrenia. This, I think is just, so, wrong.
To see a world in a grain of sand, and then to step back and see the beach where the sand lies
ICQ isn't quite doing the same thing, but I can't log in with an older version of the ICQLite client because it says I need to upgrade. The new version, of course, has huge ads everywhere...
Username taken, please choose another one.
oops, /. didn't like the < sign in the subject line. That should read "MSN protocols < 8.0"
First off...doesn't everything microsoft makes have security issues? AOL did something similar to this some time ago. They changed their software so that third-party clients could not connect. So, third-party clients patched their software to overcome this. Is it possible for microsoft to lock down msn messanger? Doubt it, but you never know. Sux.
I'm amazed that there isn't a single person on Slashdot who can figure this out. I hear plenty of conspiracy theories about how Microsoft wants to maintain their marketshare (for a free piece of software?) or that they don't want the protocol in the public domain (here's a hint: the APIs are all documented at MSDN Library) or that somehow this is some evil ploy to enslave all those people who couldn't just go use another FREE IM network. None of it withstands the test of logic.
The only thing, and I mean the ONLY THING this is about is preventing the sort of widespread IM Spam garbage that permeates other IM networks. Messenger has always been top notch at this in the past, but if they don't lock down the service to known, registered client programs, it's just a matter of time until someone creates a high volume IM spambot (if they haven't already).
"Users of Messenger clients older than MSN Messenger 5.0, Windows Messenger 4.7.2000, or MSN Messenger for Mac 3.5 will be locked out, Microsoft said. To check the version number in MSN Messenger or Windows Messenger, users should select the 'Help' menu in Messenger and then select 'About'." (from the article)
The newest MSN for Mac OS X is 3.5, the latest/last Classic Mac OS MSN version is 2.x which means all Classic Mac OS users will be shut-out. There are 'alternative' MSN clients for Classic Mac OS but who knows if they'll be able to work when the curtain drops.
Mod this up!
How is this any different to when AOL broke the AIM protocol to stop gaim and trillian connecting?
I remember Microsoft then calling for open standards. This was when MSN Messenger was only a fledgling service and not widely adopted.
Just another backflip from not only a large corporation, but Microsoft. Again, only acting in their best interests - which is fair enough, they are a business. But I think the biggest problem we have is how they go about doing their business, the FUD, etc... etc.... etc....
This kind of measures only will isolate MSN users from the others, of course, unless the updated protocol is widely implemented by alternative software. If people have the choice to connect to the world, or just to MSN users, hopely will swich to more open alternatives.
would you rather send your password inside an MD5 hash or over SSL?
ah folks you may not know this but the MSN mEssenger protocol inclduing how to sign on is w3c submitted standard..
so ie MS could not even if it wanted to block 3rd party clients..
any 3rd party client that follows the saem protocols submitted to the w3c by MS for IM apps will get through..
Don't Tread on OpenSource
They are only blocking OLDER versions of the protocol. The article misrepresented the intent of the bulletin.
This is true... Try to create a product which implements the SCC interface for Source Control.. Even some companies can't use it because the nasty legal agreement bundled with an NDA making you not even acknowledge that there is this API doesn't fly with some corporate legal departments.
This is a story, it's just dressed up all pretty by MS to make it look like nothing.
"Nothing to see here, move along" - Officer Barbrady
Wiehie! ...
Finally i got an excuse ignoring all those msn-bitches in my contact-list.
"Sorry, haven't got msn...., some other time maybe,"
Aah, internet will be so quit when msn has finally gone
- Never underestimate the power of human stupidity.
[7] ????
[8] PROFIT!!!!!
I just emailed my (few) MSN Messenger friends with a link to the article. I informed them that on the date that gaim no longer works with MSN Messenger protocol, I will no longer be able to communicate with them, unless they go with another protocol. As far as I am concerned, since I have AOL, Y!, ICQ, and Sametime at work, there is no excuse for them not being able to communicate with me. Goodbye MSN... if you want to close your network off thats fine with me. You bring nothing to the party, and offer nothing so great that I need you, your client, or your protocol. Bye bye. If my friends need to talk to me, they'll use one of the myriad of other methods.
Doesn't really surprise me that M$ and M$N would do anything they can to require people to use there products.
Can't provide a reference on this, but the rumor is that they are discontinuing Outlook Express, requiring people to use the MSN Email client in it's place (and therefore be an MSN user). If true, which I believe it is, that's pretty weak.
-- [Sig] Rome did not create a great empire by negotiation; They did it by killing everyone who opposed them.
In recent years MSN has been (for me anyway) the most common IM to give and take from people you meet travelling. There is little hope to convince many of these people to switch to another protocol (ICQ or something) as I have enough trouble convincing people from work that there are other decent alternatives (for me gaim on linux rocks, not so much though on windows). I mean, it still is great to be able to chat to these buddies across the globe. Is there any hope with my less geeky friends, or do i have to go back to writing group emails (which then get trashed by hotmails crap junk filter) ?
YOU have a girlfriend
I use SCOIM and it was only $699!
Maybe the config of that was the problem? Which port does Trillian use? Is that different to ICQ and MSN?
Could it be the server at the other end? ie I chat with someone else that has a similar config.
Why did ICQ work but not Trillian (another IT mystery).
-- it must be true, it's on the internet.
Wrong. Unless you're using some sort of signed, cross-platform code for the protocol, one client's implementation of it may be faulty.
For example: Direct Connect doesn't restrict clients to only the "official" ones. There are several different clients out there, including OS ones. And as some of you might know, there are people that use adapted programs to make it seem like they are sharing more material that they actually are.
In other words, Microsoft wants to make it harder for a user or malicious hacker to abuse the system.
Now, I'm not saying that this is really a valid reason, and it's pretty lame that, after pushing openness for AOL, they have done a 180. But you're just trolling.
mycomputer\controlpanel\addremoveprograms\msnmessa nger
Click add remove and put up with the are usual "are you really sure you want to do this Dave?" routine. Bingo no more problems. If that doesn't work cfdisk the rest of the shit starting with any ms format file systems like ntfs, or fat32 etc you will be amazed at the amount of wasted space you had on your computer!
OH THE SHAME I fell off the wagon and use sigs again!
...when you have to rely on the nation of ignorant meatheads running $299 Windows PCs to be aware of them and make sure they're installed.
Microsoft took out full-page ads in several major newspapers on Tuesday, imploring the great unwashed masses to run Windows Update to get the Blaster patch. So obviously, even they know that the mere existence of the patch is not enough.
~Philly
Hands up who is surprised. It's standard business practice for MS.
Hands up who is surprised. It's standard business practice for MS.
Gates calls on FCC to examine AIM (ZDnet)18 Dec 2000 - Microsoft chairman Bill Gates telephoned the chairman of the Federal Communications Commission last week to urge a close examination of America Online's dominance in instant messaging, a Microsoft representative confirmed.
Leading Technology and Instant Messaging Companies Form IMUnified (The Devil Himself) - One of the things that makes this coalition so exciting is the opportunity to work together and learn from each other so that we can create a system that is even more private and more secure than what is available today, said Yusuf Mehdi, vice president of MSN at Microsoft Corp.
AT this stage, I think we are only at stage 6 of the product lifecycle. Although the IETF announced Extensible Messaging and Presence Protocol (XMPP) almost a year ago, IBM and Microsoft have promoted a separate standard known as SIMPLE (SIP for Instant Messaging and Presence Leveraging Extensions). As IM becomes more important in the corporate sector the issue really starts to revolve around this proposed standard and the conditions under which it will be available or licenced.
Stopping myself...Abort (core dumped)
Change your MSN nickname to your AIM one and most users wont know the difference. =)
Pixels keep you awake!
Remember when Microsoft listed Linux as their number two risk? Unfortunately, Linux users get shafted again. I doubt I'll ever see MSN 6 for Linux. They're just trying to scare out Linux users/MSN users back into Windows. If they like the anti-M$ image, they're doing a great job of enforcing it.
For now, benefit of the doubt is what I'll give. Partly b/c I'm crazy :)
Indeed you must be. If history has taught us anything, it would be that M$ is about destroying comptetition. Total annihilation. Nothing less satisfies that machine.
I hope you don't run your own business. If you do, and is as blue-eyed if M$ ever contacts you, not only will your business be gone faster than you can say "Bloody Microsoft!" - you'll be in debt to them for the rest of your life for the honor of being screwed by them.
Giving Microsoft the benefit of a dubt is the stupidest idea I heard in quite some while now.
Did any of you ever even once stop to think that maybe that particular protocol IS insecure?
Last year, my friend went through the MSN messenger API and found all sorts of goodies. Within a few minutes, he was sending messages as if they were from other people. He played jokes on us for a little while, striking up weird conversations out of the blue.
Think before you open your mouth.
>We are out in the cold.
It won't be gaim users that are out in the cold, it will be those that are beholden to MSN Messenger.
Funny all the ways Microsoft is finding to push people away from their products. There next big idea will probably to start charging people for Internet Explorer. (I guess they soft of already do with Windows)
on October 16th third party applications will once again work with msn network through the illegal ways of reverse engineering.
kthanksbye
Microsoft isn't trying to shut out all clients but their own, they are now only allowing SSL connections, so IMs will be encrypted in transit.
RFC1459 is still being heavily implemented; it is open source, secure, in current use, and fits the online dialogue needs of millions every day.
--
There is no hatred more pure and true than that expressed by children.
Have you tried to solve this issue? I do not have it and I run a server most users use with transports.
I hope it's just coincidence that my Mozilla just stopped being able to login to Hotmail.
Forget thrust, drag, lift and weight. Airplanes fly because of money.
I don't care. The minute amsn stop working I'll give away my @hotmail and @msn accounts.
'Tis but another reason to move completely away from Microsoft.
Bring on Jabber, I say.
If going fully MS-free isn't practical (I know for some unfortunate souls that to be true), your friends and relatives can be shown how even under windows, it is possible to drasticly reduce your dependence on them just by changing the applications you use (or in this case, networks you subscribe to).
"Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife
Always read the fine print. If Microsoft addes this particular clause to operating systems, everyone might be forced to utter "Hail Palladium" when the push came to shove. /dev/hda
, and installing Something Else.
No no no, we'll be backing up our data and uttering "Fuck Palladium", # shred -z
-insert a witty something-
It's not like Microsoft's network does a much better job of sending text or files ANYWAY...the text gets across no matter what client you're using.
-insert a witty something-
(Posting anonymously for obvious reasons.)
right - because NOBODY here would use pirated software, or illegal MP3s or pirated divx encoded movies...
I signed up with the new MS Messenger service for their "$1,000 a day" contest, now I can dispose of it again and go back to Trillian.
Just because you can mod me down, doesn't mean you're right. Shoes for industry!
I've found it to be a general theme lately. It's basically "You WILL use the lastest and greatest spyware from Microsoft or you won't use Microsoft"
e.g. you can't download anything older anymore even if the new drivers/software won't run on your system/will cause problems
I just put up a page that describes the situation slightly and mentions what we can and can't do about it. Please read it before asking us on IRC. We're getting flooded with questions.
$ucker.
I'm still looking forward to the day that $lashdot allows subtracting a comment modifier bonus to any post that uses "$" instead of "S".
Yup, Microsoft pays these 'forum junkies' to protect their interests and pose as 'regular' people
No one need Microsoft-using friends because no one needs Microsoft.
Do you think someone with a sig like mine could miss this post?
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
you forgot:
[X?]Profit!!!!
I live in Soviet Canuckistan you insensitive clod!
I wonder if this has anything to do with the recent rules dropped against AOL. Also here's a nice tidbit from MS..
"It is our expectation that those who use our service with unlicensed or unauthorized third-party clients will likely not be able to log on after Oct. 15," Sundwall said. "We would encourage those third parties to contact us to work out agreements by which they can continue to have their customers access our network."
Let me rephrase a bit of that.
"We would encourage those thrid parties to contact us to work out payments by which they can drive away your customers"
I've also heard a rumor that a new version of MSN messenger yet unnannounced will include the ability to work in a similar manner of Trillian which allows you to consolidate all popular IM Programs into one program. I have no way to verify this "Rumor" but it's really hard to say MS wouldnt do it.
Has anyone else heard otherwise?
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
Get an IRC server and a web client for it, then your customers can contact you without using ANY IM at all.
What M$ makes it a pain in the ass to IRC?
[6]People get sick of software that does not work.
[7]Microsoft dies.
You are realy between 6 and 7.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
Next its going to be - "you may not access your hotmail account using Browsers other than IE 5.0 +"
So MS doesn't want 3rd party clients on their network, I say "so what"...
Linux users don't want to run Microsoft OS's - why they heck should they care that they can access the messenger network?
I think it's time we started asking our friends to use something like Jabber. Why we should we adapt to them? Want to IM with me? Okay, fine, go grab any one of the Win32 jabber clients. Done.
Personally, I'm going to do more than that. My company (at least 600 users) wants IM. I've already done a proof on concept with Jabber and lots of different clients. I'm pissed at MS now, I might have waited for us to do Exchange 2000, and it's free IM stuff, but now I'll make sure we do Jabber out of spite. Enough of us do that, and MS will notice.
In a nut shell, we should change the system from within - Fuck MS's IM network. Think RMS style on this one. Start taking MSN support out of free clients ON PURPOSE before MS takes it away.
BTW, I run an MS netowrk , complete with NT, Exchange, IIS, and most of our users on a2k/TermServ/Citrix Farm. I really don't mind using their software at work to run File sharing/Email/Word Processing/Etc. It just freaks me out when I see so many Linux users getting upset about not being able to use a closed network along with users who use a non-free MS product.
So, do you think this is just another finger in Apples's eye after killing IE Mac? M$ really wants to isolate their users. It's a huge mistake in a world that's used to open networks and standardized communications protocals.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
No, there's plenty of software worth buying. Games and Star Office come to mind. Some people even sell ISOs that you could download and burn yourself. I bought a Zaurus, mostly for the fact that it came with Linux on it and I could get Open Zaurus, which rocks. Free software is like that.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
Microsoft reserves the right to replace, modify or upgrade the SOFTWARE at any time by offering you a replacement or modified version of the SOFTWARE or such upgrade and to charge for such replacement, modification or upgrade.
That is unbelievable. They think they can just charge you what they feel like when they feel like because you use their goofey IM client. Nuts, it must be part of their new forced update OS revenue scheme. That pluss Paladium will make the old upgrade train abuse look trivial. Fuck that company.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
I don't think you dislike Jabber... I think you tried one or two, probably half-baked, clients and disliked those.
A couple years ago, I tried quite a few Jabber clients for Windows 98 (including at least Winjab and JIM), but I disliked them because they ate a sizable chunk of System Resources (that is, the 64 KB gdi.exe and user.exe heaps inherent in Windows 9x) and crashed quite often. Has this been fixed in the newer Jabber clients for Windows? Is Exodus any better?
Will I retire or break 10K?
You can't break a rule that is no longer valid. Complain to the FCC.
Reading the article, there is a glaring typo in ./'s pull blurb.
;)
I cut and paste from the article itself:
"According to Infoworld, Microsoft has announced that as of October 15 some third-party software and older versions of MSN Messenger will no longer be able to log in to their Instant Messaging service. Microsoft cited 'monopoly issues', but declined to offer specifics. The company sent an email alert to Messenger users, but users reported thinking the message was a hoax or virus after receiving over a dozen copies of the email."
I think this will make it clearer to the reader.
I've also heard a rumor that a new version of MSN messenger yet unnannounced will include the ability to work in a similar manner of Trillian which allows you to consolidate all popular IM Programs into one program. I have no way to verify this "Rumor" but it's really hard to say MS wouldnt do it.
Yeah, and I bet that they will be parsing the frak out of ever IM that passes through their gateway.
no thanks.
gaim-e for me please!
I use Al's Messenger on Linux because Msn Messenger doesn't exist. Some people I talk to only use Msn Messenger. Since I use my Linux computer most of the time, it will be a pain to pop over to the Windows computer to send a message to some people. I hope Microsoft goes out of business!
Volunteer Mozilla developer, RPI Student.
Confession: I am a cheap b@st@rd with my home PC. It is a P-100 running Win98, and it does all I ask of it - IRC, web surfing, and occassional light MS office work.
Why does a text based chat program have a recommended system that is at least a Pentium running at 500MHz+?
If it was doing PGP encryption on the chatting, or was doing something more impressive than parsing text at a rate far less than 100 words per minute I could see the need for some processing power, but this looks like (yet another) bloat for no great increase in utility.
System Requirements for Version 6.0Minimum System Requirements:
Multimedia PC with 233MHz processor or faster (500MHz recommended)
Microsoft Windows 98, Windows 2000, Windows Millenium, or Windows XP operating system
Minimum 64MB of RAM (128MB recommended)
Up to 50MB of hard disk space needed to install -- after install, up to 15MB may be needed
256-color VGA or higher resolution graphics card (SVGA recommended)
Minimum 800x600 screen resolution
Microsoft(R) Internet Explorer version 5.01 or later must be installed on your computer, though it does not need to be your default browser
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!!
Microsoft is very insecure about competition and this patch goes a long way towards fixing that.
If you've ever seen MSN's network protocol, it is intentionally designed to be easy to program for (It's all in UTF-8 text), so I don't think upgrading Trillian and Gaim should be very hard for those guys (mind you, these are the guys who reverse-engineered the OSCAR protocal, the most backward, confusing protocol I've ever seen in my life; programming for it is like being ruthlessly beaten by a street gang)
1p}{ 1 sp34k |33+ +|-|e|\| p30p13 \/\/il| 8e i/\/\pr3553|)
So a company can spend millions of dollars developing software and protocols, running servers, paying for bandwidth and then they have the gall to claim that every Joe Blow can't piggy back off of their service!! How dare they!
Sheesh... another Slashdot MS is evil rant fest. Let me know when there's a free Jabber server for public logins...
What ever happened to the first IM type of system, powwow. Damn I miss that. I moved on to ICQ as my choice usign gaim as my client. I only use MSN for 'firends' I need to talk to, if all else fails I still sit on irc, they can open there little scriptkiddie version of mIRC and chat with me if they need be. But for now that is the only reaon I use msnm.
Have any nix ppl seen MSNM 6.0 yet? what the hell is M$ trying to pull, the thik looks like... well too much shit in an IM.
-= MUD =-
Thanks for the link to the jdev archive. I found this url in one of the posts discussing the new msn 8/9 protocol. Looks interesting.
From the site's main page: "This website is intended to be an unofficial guide to the MSN Messenger protocol. It is written primarily for programmers that want to utilize the MSN Messenger protocol in software."
I must have gotten that damn message 20 times. Was there any reason behind the 'snafu' that caused people to get the message so often?
Incidentally, my other hotmail account didn't even get the message once.
This is left as an exercise for the reader.
While it stikns, I can;t understand how so many ppl out there are talking as if they have some inherent right to use Microsoft's servers. In fact I think they would be within their rights to sue people using unauthorised third-party clients for theft-of-service
Well, I'm a Chinese. There's a more awlful software called OICQ here, which has a hugh amount of nasty ads. It also urges user to receive unwanted messages(on various lousy product). What's worse, OICQ runs only on windows.
Who cares? Drop MSN and their messenger. It is a joke anyway. Use Jabber of GAIM or Yahoo or anyone else you know.
As Clausewitz said, "fixed fortifications are a monumnet to the stupidity of man."
Microsoft is just building a moat around their customers to protect their revenue stream. That never works.
All Ad hominem replies happily ignored as the sender shall be deemed to lack the faculties to comprehend the equation.
If you transport it through the local machine, know what data should be going out, and what data should be received... you really should be able to decode what's going on.
I've never really figured out the difficulty in this, although I've not tried (yet). Netstat to figure out what server/port are being connected to... redirect that host to a local address (local PC or LAN)... ensure that the end recipient is on said LAN. Log all input/output from the either client as it goes through redirection, and then have it forwarded right back on to the proper destination.
Eventually with enough time and logs (and you know almost exactly what the logs should represent as far as outgoing data) then it should be decipherable.
Of course, the other concept is that MS really isn't much up on security - so chances are that somebody will be able to crack this easily enough anyhow.
Check out the news archive at Trillian's website.
A long while back, Trillian got an impromptu upgrage because MS was changing the network and was letting Cerulean Studios in on it. They say unauthorized third-party clients, meaning there exist some that ARE authorized, or at least less of a security threat.
Heck, Trillian has blowfish encryption on SecurIM!
And then I'll pull the winning lotto ticket outta my backside...
What I haven't seen here are messages about Yahoo porting its messenger to a couple of Unix flavours. One of the developers even maintains a nice FAQ! The current version (1.0) works like a charm, with RPM and deb packages available. The next version 1.1 will probably support webcams.
8 of 13 people found this answer helpful. Did you?
Why do they need to force users to upgrade? Are their products really so shit that even their own customers refuses to upgrade? Just because people still prefer Windows 98 over 2000 or XP, and they never got the huge sales they expected, they are now doing forced upgrades whenever possible.
Never do business with a company that wants to decide when you should upgrade their products.
MSN messenger takes 20 seconds to load, and takes about 3x as much RAM as .NET Messenger. As long as they don't make me stop using .NET messenger, I'm happy.
Hmm, overlooking one thing are we? Reverse engineering the MSN protocol after they break it will give M$ a means to presecute you under the DMCA. After all, you "hacked" their protocol without their permission and are using it in something that they don't allow.
Repeat After Me :
"AOL Instant Messenger"
What with AOL being the worlds biggest ISP, I think they might have a few users.
There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
It would be the logical step, right?
Don't worry Linux guys... whatever MS do
I can assure you that It can be hacked
Remember DVD encryption?
Come on! Have faith!
Wine can help too...
...there were a serverless IM system using a net like overnet or gnutella? With something like this with small clients for various OSes we could say goodbye to MSN and other server-dependent IM nets.
I phoned MS support after getting that email (I have MS Gamevoice, which only works wirth Messenger up to 4.6)
They told me on the phone it was a virus email.
Underated
You know its true..
All 30 copies of the email I got, all deleted. Thats an abuse of hotmail imo. Just because I have a hotmail account does not give them the right to flood my email box with messages trying to get me to upgrade my IM client.
This is just some nice way of MS getting everyone to upgrade to this crappy new Messenger that has stupid games and groups and other crap that I don't want.
M$ might help out for a FEE or sign under an NDA leaving gaim stuck to reverse engineering still..
Heck, I'll have to update my msnp.py!
Stop bitching about Microsoft for a change. Microsoft is the only "commercial" IM provider that has been in favour of a standard protocol for IM. They published this draft in 1999, a complete spec of the MSN Messenger 1.0 Protocol.
19: Do you plan to support plaform foo? ..etc..etc.. binaries.
:)
Where
It is unlikely that we would ever build a Caldera/SCO version, however.
hehe funny
...and of course, the venerable:
[7] Profit!
Who cares! You (and your contacts) should be using jabber anyway so that you can avoid manipulations like this.
It's not hard for Microsoft to detect public jabber msn transports (regardless of the protocol)- they could be scanned for like open irc proxies.
I got that email about 20 times, i couldnt understand it - everything in my head was telling me it was just a spam/hoax/virus but it made no sense - there were no attachments, no-one wanted my password or details, and they didnt try to link me to any dodgy sites to download things (well except sites on microsofts domain which is pretty dodgy at the moment), this was after reading an article on the blaster worm which said something like "this is why microsoft's policy is to never solicit upgrades or patches through email"
If its all true and they are forcing an upgrade, im going to have to go without MSN for a month while someone hacks the new protocal for gaim...
This comment does not represent the views or opinions of the user.
You might as well take advanteage of it:
Security-vulnerable software == shorter backwards-compatibility requirements.
-- You can't idiot-proof anything, because they're always coming out with better idiots.
How may stupid decisions can a company make, and just how terrible a company must one be before the people that support you get the picture and leave.
it should have happened to ms a long time ago -- every competitor they have makes a better product then them
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_U.S._Election_c
Should work for other major open source projects.
Only half ass reading as usual. What else should I expect?
"offering you a replacement "
Do you know what offered means? It certainly doesnt mean forced, you shit for brains anti MS faggots. Yes I am a troll, so fucking what? This site is full of the most retarded people in the world.
Thats right along with Hotmail it's just a matter of time till M$ decide you need to PAY to use the services. It seems hotmail keeps losing features everyday, until eventually you won't even be able to read e-mails with it unless you pay... I can see IM going the same way, then it wouldn't matter which client you use, you'd still need a subscription. It's ok though, they'll say its for security reasons, I mean, if everyone's paying, it MUST be secure, right?
I spent ages trying to think of sig, but never did
I Think the Security is to set up a DMCA case against 3d parties.. Reference that use of the act for garage door openers.
/ 13 11232&mode=thread&tid=99
http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=03/01/16
Here the software which was copyrighted had a security feature that a competitor for a universal remote exploited. They closed them out of some big contracts by using copyrighted security feature circumvention and DCMA. Thats why they are doing this. To set up to use the DCMA against users of their system.
I got over 15 messages from them.
This is pretty bad news. I wonder if this is the first step in the process of charging for MSN messenger usage.
Now why would they charge for MSN messenger usage? I just recently got an email that Bill Gates was gonna give me a ton of money just for forwarding it to test his email tracking system, and apparently from what I've seen, he's got a similar experiment going on for people who forward messages with MSN messenger. They're going to pay us to use it, not expect us to pay!
If he only answers via MSN?
Disclaimer: If I disagree with you I'm probably trolling...
The old clients use md5 to authenticate, basically they just do MD5(challenge+password) where challenge is sent across the net unencrypted.
This lead to offline messenger password crackers like mdcrack (http://membres.lycos.fr/mdcrack/pf.html) which can generate millions of attempts per second.
In order to fix this vulnerability, messenger is switching to another authentication protocol which is based on ssl and which at least trillian have been able to implement.
Microsoft is simply testing the limits of the rules, and then playing by them. If it's okay if AOL shuts out Microsoft, then Microsoft can shut out AOL. Makes sense to me. AOL, of course, is doing the same thing. The rules of the game including legislating your bottom line, so why not do so? The money doesn't care if it's wrong, and shareholders want profits. Not to mention officers :P
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
I suppose no one has tried miranda IM? I used to be a trillian pro user (still registered, actually) but I have found Miranda to be far superior of an IM client, if lacking in some plugin features. It's small in memory, fast, and solid.
:)
And it's open source, not just freeware, plus it has the very flexable plugin-based system.
Right now the only thing I can complain about is that the aim protocol plugin still cannot do file transfers. And, if you think you're missing some really important feature, just go in there and reverse engineer some of that stuff yourself
http://www.miranda-im.org
Hmm, I always thought that Trillian used code from gaim or Meredydd's libmsn2.
I've heard that the gaim devels did help them out in moving to the new Yahoo protocol when the old one stopped working.
There's also proteus that uses code from GPLed projects, and does comply with the GPL (by releasing that portion under the GPL). I find it odd that these guys use GPLed code, but never acknowledge the original authors.
Do not underestimate the value of print statements for debugging.
Guarantees that the client would show their advertising. Cannot be guaranteed with anything open source, obviously.
Guarantees that the client would... well, do anything, really. Not allow certain operations... report certain information to them... since anything can be changed, nothing about potential derivatives can be guaranteed.
Per-user fees. Even a fraction of a penny would mean there would have to be *some* kind of charge for the client, obviously free software is screwed again.
Hell, even a single large fee per-application or per-version-upgrade could be really bad for a lot of people, since each individual small project would have trouble raising large amounts of cash.
It'll be interesting to see what happens to people who try to co-operate with them, and what happens when some of the conditions turn out to be impossible for a particular client. Of course, that client will have already drawn themselves to M$' attention... trouble could enSUE.
How long after m$ changes msn messenger that someone "reverse engineers" their system..( again ? )
Maybe we should get a big ol betting pool going?
LOL |-)
iF yOu WAnT to C YOUr iP agaIn gAThEr tWO MilLIon dOLLArS IN Non - cONsEcuTivE TweNtY's AnD AWaiT FuRThER iNstrUctIoN
Presumably they'll impose banner adverts on 'licenced' clients...
If you re-read the fine print you'll notice that they can end your existing EULA simply by offering the new software. You don't have to take it, true, but since your EULA has now expired due to the offer you can no longer use the old software.
-- Y|yukichigai
This should be no big deal. Just go to work and move your contacts over to ICQ or GAIM. I have 8 business contacts that I've been very successful in moving to ICQ. If Microsoft wants to be isolated then lets help them!
I found this really neat site with a LOT of free MSN 6 icons!!! It's really cool :D
ICONPLAZA.com