> The Enigma was used by the Germans, not the British.
Yes, but they didn't just use it _in Germany_, and it is reasonable to imagine that they may have had people in England. I was not aware that we knew which side sent this particular message.
"So my point was, there is useful acoustic content well above 16,744 Hz, up to 20k Hz"
nope. That's not what you said. Specifically, you said "From 16384 to 32768 Hz," which goes well beyond the range of (normal) human audibility. It simply doesn't matter. And, if you're over 30 years old, I'd bet one could roll off everything over 15K, and you wouldn't be able to hear the difference. Put your instruments away and listen for a change.
I'm sorry I was not clear enough for you. Your first comment seemed to imply that there was NOTHING above16,744.04 Hz.
The highest note on a piano, C8, is 4186.01 Hz (piccolo is the same). 4th harmonic would be 16,744.04 Hz. Most [wikipedia.org] instruments are lower than that.
My next comment was that there were harmonics well above that...
Maybe hearing things like the letter 's.' Or bells. Or splash cymbals and high hat..? (From 16384 to 32768 Hz)
...I NEVER said humans could hear all of them. To which you brilliantly retorted 'nope.' I have no idea what that was suppose to mean other than you disagreed in some manner, but couldn't formulate a cogent response.
If you continue to read my posts, I NEVER said anyone can hear above 20k Hz, but that harmonic content above 16,744.04 Hz can improve the listening experience for people who can hear it.
That is why people engineers work hard to include them, and why people spend money on systems good enough to reproduce them.
The jist of the thread was that there is 'nothing' above 16,744 Hz so, it didn't matter.
My point was that there are high harmonics well above 16,744 Hz;
You still haven't explained why it's important to reproduce those harmonics if you can't hear them. You say it "does make a difference" but don't say how or why.
What exactly enables you to hear that difference?
Lots of people CAN hear harmonics from 16,744 Hz up to 20k Hz.
Many older people can't. People with hearing damage can't. Many women have a better HF range than men.
It sounds more like real life if your system can reproduce these sounds.
I don't know about you; I like to hear everything the artist and engineers put on the record.
And I've worked with scientific equipment that measured harmonics of things into the 100s of kHz... doesn't mean that is useful for audio purposes going into a human ear...
I agree whole-heartedly! Nothing above 20k Hz will matter to anyone but Fido.
The jist of the thread was that there is 'nothing' above 16,744 Hz so, it didn't matter.
My point was that there are high harmonics well above 16,744 Hz; and was rebuffed with a 'nope' (I can only assume Mr. msauve was implying that there are no high harmonics above 16,744 Hz.)
...So my point was, there is useful acoustic content well above 16,744 Hz, up to 20k Hz, and that it does make a difference on high end systems by adding a crisp, live, airy feeling with things like human sibilance, bells, cymbals, etc., with discriminating listeners.
Well, that pretty much refutes this spectral graph of a 16" crash cymbal using two Earthworks M30BX condenser microphones, connected by balanced (XLR) cables to a Lynx L2 balanced sound card capable of recording and playing up to 192 kHz samples at 24 bit word length; using SpectraPlus software to record the samples in stereo, and microphone calibration files such that the frequency response was 10 Hz to 30 kHz ± 0.5 dB; showing that the cymbal produces high-harmonics well above 30k Hz. (Purple being the initial crash - Yellow being 2 sec ringout.)
Perhaps the reason your getting so much high-frequency attenuation is because you have your Brüel & Kjær 4954 ¼-inch free-field prepolarized calibration mic positioned too far past the cecum for clear reception.
Not exactly. Audio CDs are fundamentally digital, which means that you are representing a smooth curve with a (non-infinite) series of square blocks. It'll never be perfect no matter what you do. The only sound you can record digitally with perfection is from a digital source... which you will note is typically looked down on in most kinds of music (at least, most music that you would consider listening to on vinyl), and for good reason. Music is almost always fundamentally analog, so recording it using an analog technique makes a lot of sense, from a purist point of view.
This is wrong in so many ways I don't know where to begin.
Using the same twisted logic I could make the argument that a vinyl record can only truly reproduce the sounds of musical instruments that use a diamond needle thrust into a piece of plastic. We should only take pictures of people with cameras made out of human flesh.
Making a "series of square blocks" reproduce a sine wave is easy if the blocks are small enough and you smooth the resulting waveform beyond the limits of the human ear to hear the difference.
"a digital source......you will note is typically looked down on in most kinds of music..."
Laughably wrong. Spoken like someone who has never worked in the commercial recording or music industry. You've obviously never sat in on a remastering session where the poor engineer works his/her ass off trying to get rid of all the artifact created by the original tape process. You've never heard a couple of engineers getting excited about higher sample rates.
"Music is almost always fundamentally analog, so recording it using an analog technique makes a lot of sense"
No it doesn't. It makes the most sense to record it in a way that doesn't require elaborate, fake EQ curves to compensate to all the limitations inherent to the recording technique. It makes the most sense to record it in a way that doesn't produce all kinds of clicks and pops and turntable rumble and skipping and surface noise and tracking errors and hiss. It makes the most sense to record it in a way that can reproduce out-of-phase bass between left/right, if that's what the original is. It makes the most sense to record it in a way that most accurately reproduces the original source.
If the original artist wants you to hear it with a bunch of artifact, they can add it in mixdown.
Having seen the content of several hundred thousand emails between employees, you do not want to own the content. It is 90% non-sense, 10% work-related and 33% "I can't wait until 5 O'Clock!"?
What about the other 50%?
The other 50% were from the accounting department.
In my state, "sex offenders" include people who have urinated in public, people who forgot to close the bathroom shades before getting out of the shower, and a great many teenagers who couldn't keep it in their pants. Are these the "depraved and psychotic people" whose lives you wish to destroy?
You might want to look into either getting an account or using some sort of public key signing for your posts, or some other authentication scheme. Maybe get a website and copy and paste time stamped copies of your posts there.
I agree. I don't know about the feud you two ACs have going - but whichever one of you is complaining about being 'impersonated' could just get a free/. account, and put an end to this.
Unlikely, but what if the operative found an encoded message in a German HQ and was sending it on knowing it could be decrypted by the spooks? Might explain why it is one of a very rare class of message.
It's possible he may have found an Enigma encoded message; but I think this thread was suggesting he was dragging around an Enigma machine of his own, and was using it to encrypt.
This is unlikely since this message was intended for the British, (delivery instructions in English and pigeon found in England.)
Would the pigeon handler have access to an Enigma? Was a little bulky for field use, and if you're using pigeons, you're probably not travelling too heavy.
The Enigma was used by the Germans, not the British.
When I asked where the terms around the docking fee appear in the ordering process, the guy I was speaking with just gave me a URL to type in to take me directly to the terms.
How could you miss them?
They were clearly on display in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying "Beware of The Leopard."
You don't have to read and agree to a legally binding (or not) agreement to enter a brick and mortar store. Websites deem it vital to their existence.
I guess the difference is that your physical presence in the brick and mortar store is your 'presence' in the store... (stay with me here)...but on the web store, your 'presence' in the store is only established by your identity; and thus they have to provide protections to the identity information gleaned.
Let's turn that on it's head: If you grab merchandise in a brick and mortar store and make a run for the door, the security guard can grab you. If you are buying off a web site, the only way they can prevent fraud like that is to know who are are. And with that "knowing who you are" come greater responsibility.
I guess, like so many debates, this boils down to what we are calling a "personal computer."
Is my car a "personal computer" since it has built-in GPS, phone, auto-parking, etc.? Is my watch a "personal computer" if it has smart-phone features? Is my music player a "personal computer" if I can surf the web with it? Is my e-reader a "personal computer" if I can send email with it? Is anything with a chip in it a "personal computer?"
Being old-school, I think of a proper "personal computer" as a clunky box with monitor, keyboard, etc., but until we define our terms, there's nothing to debate.
"It depends on what the meaning of the words 'is' is." –Bill Clinton, 1998
You obviously need to wait until Apple gets into the game...
Actually, this guy is already in deep legal trouble.
You see, Apple holds patent #9780870 which protects any, "...fruit named, or fruit-like objects, capable of playing or displaying only non-current computer games or video games."
Additionally, Patent #94345350, gives them exclusive rights to, "...any object, article, device, thing, unit, planet, vehicle, body organ, fruit, vegetable, legume, or any other object or thing which can be discerned and/or observed; whether or not it has been discerned and/or observed..." that has "...a rounded, streamlined, and/or non-square shape..."
However, from Microsoft's perspective, sounds like it's "attacking" (or at least pointing the finger) at the very group they likely want to eradicate; those who mod their consoles.
It would seem you lack basic reading comprehension skills.
This doesn't just target the modders, it targets EVERYONE that happens to be in a game with people that enable this option.
Actually, you're both wrong. "When a player with an unmodded console joins a Borderlands 2 multiplayer game in which there is a character running in badass mode it too gets kicked into that mode."
...so the vulnerable group here would be user who don't mod their consoles.
With enough laws.... I can arrest just about anyone on just about any day.
Yeah! Why do we have all those stupid laws against manufacturing meth, bank fraud and check kiting, anyway?
Nakoula was arrested by the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department in 1997 after being pulled over and found to be in possession of ephedrine, hydroiodic acid, and $45,000 in cash. Nakoula was charged with intent to manufacture methamphetamine. He pleaded guilty...
In 2010, Nakoula pleaded no contest to federal charges of bank fraud in California. Nakoula had opened bank accounts using fake names and stolen Social Security numbers, including one belonging to a 6-year-old child, and deposited checks from those accounts to withdraw at ATMs. The prosecutor described the scheme as check kiting...
Slashdot Mirror
msauve then pointed out that the highest notes on piano and piccolo have 4th-order harmonics under 20kHz, and asked what's the point
No, msauve said:
...4th harmonic would be 16,744.04 Hz. Most [wikipedia.org] instruments are lower than that.
...and my point was that there are useful harmonics above 16,744.04 Hz (and below 20k Hz.)
That's all.
Anyone who knows Nyquist knows what 44.1k Hz buys you.
> The Enigma was used by the Germans, not the British.
Yes, but they didn't just use it _in Germany_, and it is reasonable to imagine that they may have had people in England. I was not aware that we knew which side sent this particular message.
The form appears to be English:
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/multimedia/archive/00351/115804953_02_351757c.jpg
They cant sue under the franchise laws. Because the law is under combustible motors. It never included electric driven vehicles.
Actually, it would be classified as a "motor vehicle." "...a self-propelled wheeled vehicle that does not run on rails..."
"So my point was, there is useful acoustic content well above 16,744 Hz, up to 20k Hz"
nope. That's not what you said. Specifically, you said "From 16384 to 32768 Hz," which goes well beyond the range of (normal) human audibility. It simply doesn't matter. And, if you're over 30 years old, I'd bet one could roll off everything over 15K, and you wouldn't be able to hear the difference. Put your instruments away and listen for a change.
I'm sorry I was not clear enough for you.
Your first comment seemed to imply that there was NOTHING above16,744.04 Hz.
The highest note on a piano, C8, is 4186.01 Hz (piccolo is the same). 4th harmonic would be 16,744.04 Hz. Most [wikipedia.org] instruments are lower than that.
My next comment was that there were harmonics well above that...
Maybe hearing things like the letter 's.' Or bells. Or splash cymbals and high hat..? (From 16384 to 32768 Hz)
...I NEVER said humans could hear all of them.
To which you brilliantly retorted 'nope.'
I have no idea what that was suppose to mean other than you disagreed in some manner, but couldn't formulate a cogent response.
If you continue to read my posts, I NEVER said anyone can hear above 20k Hz, but that harmonic content above 16,744.04 Hz can improve the listening experience for people who can hear it.
That is why people engineers work hard to include them, and why people spend money on systems good enough to reproduce them.
You still haven't explained why it's important to reproduce those harmonics if you can't hear them. You say it "does make a difference" but don't say how or why.
What exactly enables you to hear that difference?
Lots of people CAN hear harmonics from 16,744 Hz up to 20k Hz.
Many older people can't. People with hearing damage can't.
Many women have a better HF range than men.
It sounds more like real life if your system can reproduce these sounds.
I don't know about you; I like to hear everything the artist and engineers put on the record.
And I've worked with scientific equipment that measured harmonics of things into the 100s of kHz... doesn't mean that is useful for audio purposes going into a human ear...
I agree whole-heartedly! Nothing above 20k Hz will matter to anyone but Fido.
The jist of the thread was that there is 'nothing' above 16,744 Hz so, it didn't matter.
My point was that there are high harmonics well above 16,744 Hz; and was rebuffed with a 'nope' (I can only assume Mr. msauve was implying that there are no high harmonics above 16,744 Hz.)
ta DA.
nope
Wow. You said 'nope'
Well, that pretty much refutes this spectral graph of a 16" crash cymbal using two Earthworks M30BX condenser microphones, connected by balanced (XLR) cables to a Lynx L2 balanced sound card capable of recording and playing up to 192 kHz samples at 24 bit word length; using SpectraPlus software to record the samples in stereo, and microphone calibration files such that the frequency response was 10 Hz to 30 kHz ± 0.5 dB; showing that the cymbal produces high-harmonics well above 30k Hz.
(Purple being the initial crash - Yellow being 2 sec ringout.)
http://api.ning.com/files/OadvTsmZLvMJy4sI7gLgzvKgieE-xgy8HlzqqAcyiTuvBgQk5HpwFv-uUdqcRrmI1ze6xiwbb8KpABQIuV*eX2gPh5qV6Lts/zildjian16inchkconstantinoplecrashspectrumforblog.gif
Perhaps the reason your getting so much high-frequency attenuation is because you have your Brüel & Kjær 4954 ¼-inch free-field prepolarized calibration mic positioned too far past the cecum for clear reception.
Not exactly. Audio CDs are fundamentally digital, which means that you are representing a smooth curve with a (non-infinite) series of square blocks. It'll never be perfect no matter what you do. The only sound you can record digitally with perfection is from a digital source... which you will note is typically looked down on in most kinds of music (at least, most music that you would consider listening to on vinyl), and for good reason. Music is almost always fundamentally analog, so recording it using an analog technique makes a lot of sense, from a purist point of view.
This is wrong in so many ways I don't know where to begin.
Using the same twisted logic I could make the argument that a vinyl record can only truly reproduce the sounds of musical instruments that use a diamond needle thrust into a piece of plastic. We should only take pictures of people with cameras made out of human flesh.
Making a "series of square blocks" reproduce a sine wave is easy if the blocks are small enough and you smooth the resulting waveform beyond the limits of the human ear to hear the difference.
"a digital source... ...you will note is typically looked down on in most kinds of music..."
Laughably wrong. Spoken like someone who has never worked in the commercial recording or music industry. You've obviously never sat in on a remastering session where the poor engineer works his/her ass off trying to get rid of all the artifact created by the original tape process. You've never heard a couple of engineers getting excited about higher sample rates.
"Music is almost always fundamentally analog, so recording it using an analog technique makes a lot of sense"
No it doesn't.
It makes the most sense to record it in a way that doesn't require elaborate, fake EQ curves to compensate to all the limitations inherent to the recording technique.
It makes the most sense to record it in a way that doesn't produce all kinds of clicks and pops and turntable rumble and skipping and surface noise and tracking errors and hiss.
It makes the most sense to record it in a way that can reproduce out-of-phase bass between left/right, if that's what the original is.
It makes the most sense to record it in a way that most accurately reproduces the original source.
If the original artist wants you to hear it with a bunch of artifact, they can add it in mixdown.
The highest note on a piano, C8, is 4186.01 Hz (piccolo is the same). 4th harmonic would be 16,744.04 Hz....What are you talking about?
Maybe hearing things like the letter 's.' Or bells. Or splash cymbals and high hat..? (From 16384 to 32768 Hz)
Having seen the content of several hundred thousand emails between employees, you do not want to own the content. It is 90% non-sense, 10% work-related and 33% "I can't wait until 5 O'Clock!"?
What about the other 50%?
The other 50% were from the accounting department.
Bob is his last name, right? Because this sounds a lot like Microsoft Bob...
If it is, you could always switch over to 'Clippy.'
In my state, "sex offenders" include people who have urinated in public, people who forgot to close the bathroom shades before getting out of the shower, and a great many teenagers who couldn't keep it in their pants. Are these the "depraved and psychotic people" whose lives you wish to destroy?
What state are you in?
You might want to look into either getting an account or using some sort of public key signing for your posts, or some other authentication scheme. Maybe get a website and copy and paste time stamped copies of your posts there.
I agree. I don't know about the feud you two ACs have going - but whichever one of you is complaining about being 'impersonated' could just get a free /. account, and put an end to this.
Unlikely, but what if the operative found an encoded message in a German HQ and was sending it on knowing it could be decrypted by the spooks? Might explain why it is one of a very rare class of message.
It's possible he may have found an Enigma encoded message; but I think this thread was suggesting he was dragging around an Enigma machine of his own, and was using it to encrypt.
This is unlikely since this message was intended for the British, (delivery instructions in English and pigeon found in England.)
Would the pigeon handler have access to an Enigma? Was a little bulky for field use, and if you're using pigeons, you're probably not travelling too heavy.
The Enigma was used by the Germans, not the British.
The problem is that a security camera doesn't post the videos on youtube.
You're right.
Some of them stream live:
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=%2Fview%2Findex.shtml
http://www.opentopia.com/hiddencam.php
http://www.cctvcamerapros.com/Live-Streaming-Cameras-s/395.htm
When I asked where the terms around the docking fee appear in the ordering process, the guy I was speaking with just gave me a URL to type in to take me directly to the terms.
How could you miss them?
They were clearly on display in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying "Beware of The Leopard."
You don't have to read and agree to a legally binding (or not) agreement to enter a brick and mortar store. Websites deem it vital to their existence.
I guess the difference is that your physical presence in the brick and mortar store is your 'presence' in the store... (stay with me here) ...but on the web store, your 'presence' in the store is only established by your identity; and thus they have to provide protections to the identity information gleaned.
Let's turn that on it's head: If you grab merchandise in a brick and mortar store and make a run for the door, the security guard can grab you. If you are buying off a web site, the only way they can prevent fraud like that is to know who are are. And with that "knowing who you are" come greater responsibility.
I guess, like so many debates, this boils down to what we are calling a "personal computer."
Is my car a "personal computer" since it has built-in GPS, phone, auto-parking, etc.?
Is my watch a "personal computer" if it has smart-phone features?
Is my music player a "personal computer" if I can surf the web with it?
Is my e-reader a "personal computer" if I can send email with it?
Is anything with a chip in it a "personal computer?"
Being old-school, I think of a proper "personal computer" as a clunky box with monitor, keyboard, etc., but until we define our terms, there's nothing to debate.
"It depends on what the meaning of the words 'is' is."
–Bill Clinton, 1998
I have to question the original post statement,
now that Apple is the largest personal computer manufacturer
I can only assume you are referring to market capitalization, and not actual computers sold.
As far as computers sold, it would be (third quarter 2012):
Worldwide:
Lenovo Group Ltd., 13.8 million shipped worldwide, 15.7 percent share
Hewlett-Packard Co., 13.6 million shipped, 15.5 percent
Dell Inc., 9.2 million, 10.5 percent
Acer Group, 8.6 million, 9.9 percent
AsusTek Computer Inc., 6.4 million, 7.3 percent
Others, 36.0 million, 41.1 percent.
Total: 87.5 million
United States:
Hewlett-Packard Co., 4.1 million shipped in U.S., 27.0 percent share
Dell Inc., 3.3 million, 21.4 percent
Apple Inc., 2.1 million, 13.6 percent
Lenovo Group Ltd., 1.4 million, 8.9 percent
Acer Group, 989,725, 6.5 percent.
Toshiba, 989,600, 6.5 percent
Others, 2.5 million, 16.2 percent.
Total: 15.3 million
Source: Gartner
You obviously need to wait until Apple gets into the game...
Actually, this guy is already in deep legal trouble.
You see, Apple holds patent #9780870 which protects any, "...fruit named, or fruit-like objects, capable of playing or displaying only non-current computer games or video games."
Additionally, Patent #94345350, gives them exclusive rights to, "...any object, article, device, thing, unit, planet, vehicle, body organ, fruit, vegetable, legume, or any other object or thing which can be discerned and/or observed; whether or not it has been discerned and/or observed..." that has "...a rounded, streamlined, and/or non-square shape..."
However, from Microsoft's perspective, sounds like it's "attacking" (or at least pointing the finger) at the very group they likely want to eradicate; those who mod their consoles.
It would seem you lack basic reading comprehension skills.
This doesn't just target the modders, it targets EVERYONE that happens to be in a game with people that enable this option.
Actually, you're both wrong.
"When a player with an unmodded console joins a Borderlands 2 multiplayer game in which there is a character running in badass mode it too gets kicked into that mode."
With enough laws .... I can arrest just about anyone on just about any day.
Yeah!
Why do we have all those stupid laws against manufacturing meth, bank fraud and check kiting, anyway?
Nakoula was arrested by the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department in 1997 after being pulled over and found to be in possession of ephedrine, hydroiodic acid, and $45,000 in cash. Nakoula was charged with intent to manufacture methamphetamine. He pleaded guilty...
In 2010, Nakoula pleaded no contest to federal charges of bank fraud in California. Nakoula had opened bank accounts using fake names and stolen Social Security numbers, including one belonging to a 6-year-old child, and deposited checks from those accounts to withdraw at ATMs. The prosecutor described the scheme as check kiting...
What damn bill?
The original damn bill.
The U.S. taxpayers funded DOD created the internet (remember the ARPANET?)
Why shouldn't we retain control of something we invented?
Jesus makes it clear that he is the fulfillment of the law.
So, does this mean I can eat Fig Newtons, or not?
Mark 11:13-14