Nexus 7 and Android Convertibles Drive Massive Asus Profit

rtfa-troll writes "The collapse of the PC market has had much discussion on Slashdot with a common opinion that, now that Apple is the largest personal computer manufacturer, a loss of sales combined with Apple's iPad will completely eliminate most of them. Now Asustek's most recent results show that there may be a way out for those that can move away from their standard markets. Concentrating on Android tablet devices, the Google Nexus 7, with a help from ASUS transformer tablets has driven the company to massive $230 million profits. Asus gross revenue also climbed 9 percent to around $3.8 billion. We have discussed related issues recently: Where companies like HTC have lost their focus on open Android devices and suffered from devastating collapses, ASUS has managed to differentiate it's tablets by providing the most open tablet experience possible via with Google's Nexus program and branding."

Comments

economics 101

[banbeans]

Build stuff people want to buy, make a profit

Re:economics 101

[Paradise Pete]

Build stuff people want to buy, make a profit

Especially if you can build at a profit something the contractor is willing to sell at a loss. That's a great market.

Re:economics 101

[Stuarticus]

I don't get it, where's the "step 2 - ???".

Re:economics 101

[kurt555gs]

Telle that to Nokia's former Maemo bunch.

Re:economics 101

[Ol Biscuitbarrel]

2 - Build Nexus 6
3 - Profit
4 - Build huge flat topped pyramid in the middle of Los Angeles.

Re:economics 101

[Jane Q. Public]

Here's how PC makers can profit: build their machines using Apple-compatible hardware. Then people can (legally or not) make Hackintoshes out of them. It's a popular pastime and everybody wins -- even Apple, though they are loathe to admit it.

Re:economics 101

[Jane Q. Public]

Well... almost everybody. I know of at least one company that does lose with that formula... but who cares?

Re:economics 101

[Anonymous Coward]

But most people on /. don't realize that's exactly what Apple does. At least, not without calling the customers nerd-rage names, like 'iSheep'.

Re:economics 101

[Patch86]

Build stuff people want to buy, make a profit, have your product axed in favour of an untested competitor by a self destructive CEO?

Re:economics 101

[Tough Love]

Build stuff people want to buy, make a profit

Especially if you can build at a profit something the contractor is willing to sell at a loss. That's a great market.

Isuppli says the Nexus 7 is sold at a modest profit. Not sure what your point is.

Re:economics 101

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes you do.

Re:economics 101

[Paradise Pete]

They consider only the direct costs. Selling things has many costs beyond the parts and labor. If they are only just barely covering parts and labor they are surely losing money on the deal.

But if you like, if the contractor doesn't care about profit then you'll be able to build quite a few more than if he did. Surely you understood the point.

Innovation

[high_rolla]

Indeed I believe we are just seeing the start of a new era of innovation in terms of new formats for portable devices. Android is maturing just as the manufacturers are starting to get their stuff together in terms of playing with new ideas. I think the future is going to be very interesting. I wonder if Apple and MS will be able to keep up?

Re:Innovation

[epyT-R]

a 'great' era to get all excited about.. or not.

1. they're all locked down in some way compared with the existing x86 desktop.
2. they're simplified to the point of uselessness for anyone who knows what they're doing (the vendors' competition).
3. the result of 1 and 2 is that they're consumer-hostile devices disguised as 'convenience' network-dependent platforms rather than empowering tools one can own and retain control over (ie trust). I see little of interest here for the same reasons I don't care about my cable box.

So far I've seen little innovation other than rehashes/dumbed down versions of existing software, just with ads or with 'subscription' hooks and simplified interfaces. The closest thing we have to open is android and even that's riddled with binary only drivers and userland. bleh..

oh and spare me the 'all users want is convenience so you should just learn to deal with it' posts.. just don't bother. I've heard it all before. There's no reason why they can't have their convenience along with the power to tinker if they choose to. It's just too bad that today's users don't understand that gaining advantage with powerful tools requires a learning curve. It's also too bad that I along with tomorrow's crop of 8 to 14yos won't have the opportunity to really learn to command tomorrow's computer technology without a licensed sandbox.

Re:Innovation

[houghi]

The people should not only want both the freedom to tinker AND the security of the walled garden. The people should DEMAND, after all:
People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.

Re:Innovation

[Anonymous Coward]

you forgot 4. they're tracking and monitoring your life for good opportunities to market you and make even more money off advertising.

Re:Innovation

[CastrTroy]

Or your know, just buy two devices. These things are getting pretty cheap now. Get a Nexus 7 tablet for $200, use it for all your media consumption and facebooking. Get a $400 laptop, or a $600 desktop with gobs of memory and ample processing power, and use it for tinkering and programming whatever else. It's nice that we can tinker with computers without spending a fortune. I like tinkering as much as the next guy, but I also have a computer that I don't tinker with because I like to have it working and free of clutter when I actually want to get stuff done. At $400-$500, tablets are way too expensive for me. But at $200, it's more like buying an MP3 player, or a dvd/blueray player. Nobody cares that they can't hack their dvd player. They just want it to work and play movies

Re:Innovation

[Xest]

"There's no reason why they can't have their convenience along with the power to tinker if they choose to."

Well there is, opening up some things like drivers can have all sorts of repercussions from contract negotation difficulties over patent licensing and potential legal threats and so forth, through to simply having to tidy up the code a little more, and facilitating distribution of it, through to potential increased support headaches as their support team chase round in circles over a problem before finding out the problem exists because someone tinkered with something without knowing what they are doing. All these things combined mean there is a cost to companies in opening up some of their source, and the fact is that the number of people who care whether the drivers are open or not is so minutely small that it's not worth fucking over everyone else by having to pass on increased costs to them just because of this tiny irrelevant little minority who will dick around at driver level. It may even be counterproductive, the price increase they'd have to perform if they want to make even the slightest little things open (component manufacturers for example may hike the price for providing hardware documentation to end users) may be enough that their fully open product is no longer competitive with a competing closed product in the first placing leading to the open product failing and being replaced by close products anyway.

Yes it would be nice if everything was completely open for people like yourself who care about these things but it's not a big enough deal to matter. Even people like myself who have the technical competence to tinker and who download or buy things to tinker with (like the RaspberryPi) often end up finding they don't have time to do so after all anyway such that it ends up sat in a cupboard doing nothing, much less people who don't even have the technical competence in the first place.

You're chasing an ideological fantasy, that, whilst I respect it, and believe the goals of it are noble, just isn't practical in practice right now unfortunately.

Re:Innovation

[Nerdfest]

Many people do have similar concerns about their DVD players, as region locking renders most of them useless. Ones that have configuration options exposed can play multiple regions. In this case it's the manufacturers telling you how you can use your media rather than your device, but the concept is similar.

Re:Innovation

[Lumpy]

WAH! You have been able to buy a 100% unlocked and not locked down tablet for years. I am betting you are just too cheap to buy one. Fujitsu Stylistic or one of the higher ASUS tablets that are X86 based. they work great and run linux or windows or whatever you want.

Stop whining and buy one. Yes they cost around $800-$1000 but who cares, it's 100% open and you can install whatever OS you want on it.. Even X86 android!

You can tinker if you choose to, by buying the right device.

Re:Innovation

[bfandreas]

I agree.
the major driver for PC sales in the past has been obsolescence. Something new popped up that you absolutely wanted but your machine couldn't handle it. Most of the time this involved replacing CPU, Graphics card, Mainboard and possibly RAM. Basically a totally new machine.
Last year I bought an i7 based system with 16gb RAM, SSD and a Geforce 580. I also use this machine for development and have to run an awful lot on it. It is BORED stiff most of the time. CPUs have been fast enough for some time. Graphic cards don't need replacing as often since PC gaming is still held back by the current console generation. Unless of course you want to drive multiple screens at monster resolutions...

A NORMAL user who does some text processing, web browsing, Youtube and stuff can easily live with a 5 year old machine. Windows 8 might be a reason to upgrade.

So what now? Utility? Form factor? I am SERIOUSLY considering to get one of those Windows 8(not RT) Transformers once all the inevitable kinks got ironed out. And I WILL ditch my laptop for it. Because a tablet/laptop hybrid is exactly what I'm interested in. I've got a Transformer Prime which is a brilliant little machine. But now, after living with Android for the last 3 years I'm coming more and more to the conclusion that it simply sucks. Especially web browsing is atrocious. Also for some things I'd need a little bit more available performance. I don't know if the Prime is underpowered(I'm under the impression it is one of the fastes Android things out there) or if Android is the limiting factor. And I suspect it is the latter.

tl;dr:
Nobody replaces PCs at the rate they used to. And if they get replaced then it is rather for form factor than more power.

Re:Innovation

[LodCrappo]

While I agree with the sentiment mostly, DEMANDing security is not in the spirit of that quote. Freedom comes with responsibility, not security. You really cannot have freedom in a perfectly safe system, that is precisely why the quote talks about trading one for the other. The very power and flexibility that lets you experiment also lets you do stupid things that compromise security. Rather than demanding things, I think it's high time we accept that personal education and personal responsibility are the only way to provide both freedom and the safety that a walled garden claims to provide.

Re:Innovation

[Joce640k]

Weirdly enough, a lot of people don't see that as a problem.

So many of them, in fact, of them that the manufacturers don't have to worry about the people who do.

Re:Innovation

[marcello_dl]

A lot of people didn't worry about committing their work to closed document formats in the nineties too, and people are still paying for it.

Re:Innovation

[Attila the Bun]

Absolutely. And tinkering pretty much requires a keyboard, so the majority of Android or iOS devices are physically unsuitable for that kind of use. Carry a laptop when you need it and a tablet when you don't. I can see the attraction of a slim, light tablet device when you just need to check emails or buy tickets, and although the prices seem rather high for such simple devices it's obvious that people are happy to pay. But no matter how good these tablets get there will always be tasks which need a better (and bigger) human interface, and that's where PCs are unbeatable.

Re:Innovation

[Legion303]

A NORMAL user who does some text processing, web browsing, Youtube and stuff can easily live with a 5 year old machine.

Hell, I regularly do music and video editing on my 6-year-old laptop without hiccups. It also ran every single game right up until GTA4, at which point I had consoles to play newer games on anyway. As you said, people just don't need to upgrade their computers as much these days.

Re:Innovation

[Anonymous Coward]

Nobody cares that they can't hack their dvd player. They just want it to work and play movies

I have custom firmware on my DVD player. All I had to do was burn an ISO to CD and put it in the player. That's easier than any Android/iOS device.

Re:Innovation

[h4rr4r]

1. How is a nexus 7 locked down?
The bootloader is unlocked and you don't have to stick with android.

Re:Innovation

[kj_kabaje]

psst! aren't you supposed to put the tl;dr at the top? At any rate, thanks for the insightful comment.

Re:Innovation

[needsomemoola]

I understand the points you've laid out, but i haven't had problems with the "locked down" state of the devices. That's not to say I wouldn't want them to be more open. So far I've only run into one limitation on my iPad (3rd gen) and that's with Apple locking devs out of the API for the wireless radios.

I use my iPad for almost all the same things I use my laptop. And when your a chronic Delta victim, being able to use a tablet in the few inches they give you is better than not being able to use your laptop at all on a 5+ hour flight.
1. email
2. writing documents (bluetooth smartcover keyboard by Logitech works beautifully). 10 hours of battery is better than most laptops
3. watching movies/netflix/shows/youtube
4. terminal/console for configuring network equipment (30-pin->RJ45 adapter and console app)
5. ssh (lots of good clients, some even let you sync session output to dropbox for records)
6. texting - using iMessage or other clients I can text people from 30,000 feet now
7. research - with stuff like Reading List, synced bookmarks, and note taking apps that sync across all my devices
8. etc.... (games, music, video chat, dictation, contact management, social media, navigation, picture management, calendar, ...)

There's really not a whole lot one can't do on a tablet now outside of specialty functions and modifying your local OS (which you can do with a JB/root). The biggest advantage desktops have right now are processing power and the mouse cursor. So stuff like video editing/rendering, while there are apps for it, can't (yet) be replaced by a table running an ARM processor. But even with that, if you're in a pinch or stuck on a plane, there are simple-tech solutions (like iMovie).

I'm curious if people really can't do what they want on a tablet, or if they just haven't taken the time to find out if they can. ;)

Re:Innovation

[Anonymous Coward]

You seem to think that you as a power user and your desires are relevant. They are not.

Re:Innovation

[Anonymous Coward]

Region locking is all but irrelevant but for a very small number of users.

There really isnt that many anime watchers.

Re:Innovation

[Anonymous Coward]

What's a DVD player?

Re:Innovation

[grumpyman]

So far I've seen little innovation other than rehashes/dumbed down versions of existing software, just with ads or with 'subscription' hooks and simplified interfaces

Dismissing the fundamental change in personal computing industry by saying "little innovation" and "dumbed down" software, dude if you really want something open and flexible and modifiable and you are such a tinkerer, go build one yourself. And more so, go build an ecosystem on it yourself. It may not be exciting for you but there are plenty of people who uses smart phones and tablets says otherwise. Go back to your cave. Nothing to see here, move along. Otherwise, I challenge you, go start your own open source project to address this market gap here as you've identified.

Please mod parent overrated.

Re:Innovation

[dowens81625]

How about something simple, I have a Power Point with a text in a font that iOS x doesn't have and there is no way to install the Font. So I am reduced to sending the email back to my machine Printing the whole thing as a series of pictures, loading it back at 20 times the size. with no presentation capabilities (notes, presenter comments, timer etc)

Tools. yes SSH and TTY can be loaded to work with almost any device. I can remember an LG Env2 that I could use to remote into PBXs and make routine programming changes from. That was 6 years ago, don't come off as the iPad innovated anything, other than an oversize touch screen.

The iPad is a glorified toy.

I pity the fool that tries to do something outside the box when dealing with Apple.

I am still waiting for the iNept to be released to the masses.

Re:Innovation

[tepples]

Or your know, just buy two devices.

And carry them both. And keep both of them charged. And buy data plans for both. In addition, a lot of people don't have the means to lawfully earn money to buy multiple devices, especially those who have not yet graduated.

Get a $400 laptop, or a $600 desktop with gobs of memory and ample processing power

Once 90 percent of people have decided that they don't need more than "consumption and facebooking", how long are the economies of scale that allow these laptops and desktops to cost under $1000 going to remain in effect?

Re:Innovation

[bfandreas]

Nope. You put the executive summary at the end so they have to scroll over a lot of stuff that looks terribly insightful and very valuable by sheer volume.

If I had put it at the top that would imply I knew beforehand what I would ramble on about when in reality I am as surprised by the result as you are.

tl;dr:
Bullshit is power. Especially if you don't have a clue.
:P

Re:Innovation

[thomasw_lrd]

You're talking about the same people who watch Jersey Shore, Dancing With the Stars, and Big Brother. The "people" just want to be entertained, especially if that entertainment is mind-numbing stupid. As much as I hate to quote Men In Black. "A person is smart, people are just dumb animals."

Re:Innovation

[kwerle]

I just happened to read this counter-example, yesterday:
http://yieldthought.com/post/12239282034/swapped-my-macbook-for-an-ipad

I'm not ready for that, but it is an interesting read.

Re:Innovation

[Burz]

It doesn't stop at the ability to tinker for me... If the thing has a mic, a camera, etc. and wireless networking then it has to also have a removable battery.

People are idiots for trusting something for which they can't simply 'yank the plug'. Its another indicator that a device is consumer-hostile.

Re:Innovation

[Curupira]

1. How is a nexus 7 locked down? The bootloader is unlocked and you don't have to stick with android.

Exactly. You can, for instance, install Ubuntu on it. There are some issues, but the Nexus 7 is surely the most ARM-based tablet on the market right now.

Re:Innovation

[amiga3D]

Anyone who really is bothered by region locking knows enough to rip DVD's so the damn region is irrelevant. I bought a bluray player 2 years ago and have used it a grand total of once. I wansn't thinking when I bought it or it would have stayed at the store. I guess I was so excited by buying an HDTV that I just got carried away. Right afterwards I bought a Western Digital HD unit and I never watch optical media anymore. I rent Bluray discs occasionally, rip them and take them back and watch the movies when I feel like it. The people still using optical media really don't know or care about regions.

Re:Innovation

[Dusty101]

Nokia's N-series mini tablets (& N900 phone) offered a hidden-but-documented "red pill/blue pill" option, so that knowledgeable users could effectively choose to switch off the consumer failsafes & tinker, secure in the knowledge that if they broke stuff while experimenting, they were on their own:

http://wiki.maemo.org/Red_Pill_mode

This gave the benefits of both a safe, supported "appliance" experience for Muggles, & a hackable (in the old-school sense) environment for the techie types. I think it's a shame that this didn't become standard practice for tablets & smartphones.

These days, to do the "red pill" kind of thing, one usually has to resort to Jailbreaking/rooting gear via exploits, & I think the world as a whole is generally poorer for it. Sadly, even the Nokia of today is not the Nokia of old. I still yearn for a manufacturer/customer relationship that's collaborative, rather than confrontational.

Caveat: like many others, I did eventually succumb & buy a couple of Apple mobile devices (phone, iPad) a few years ago in order to benefit from the much more stable ecosystem (I was already using their truly excellent laptops at that point, & Android was still very rough), so it could certainly be argued that I eventually voted with the herd (rather than the Hurd, har har). However, I only bought them after I definitely knew I could Jailbreak them, and I won't run any version of iOS that I can't (added bonus: no Apple Maps fiasco experience for me).

Re:Innovation

[Dusty101]

Well, in all fairness, "Men In Black" does have some fairly quotable lines.

Re:Innovation

[Abreu]

Once 90 percent of people have decided that they don't need more than "consumption and facebooking", how long are the economies of scale that allow these laptops and desktops to cost under $1000 going to remain in effect?

As long as businesses need regular laptops and desktops for their employees, we don't need to worry about the economies of scale for them.

Re:Innovation

[Anonymous Coward]

Or your know, just buy two devices. These things are getting pretty cheap now. Get a Nexus 7 tablet for $200, use it for all your media consumption and facebooking. Get a $400 laptop, or a $600 desktop with gobs of memory and ample processing power, and use it for tinkering and programming whatever else. It's nice that we can tinker with computers without spending a fortune. I like tinkering as much as the next guy, but I also have a computer that I don't tinker with because I like to have it working and free of clutter when I actually want to get stuff done. At $400-$500, tablets are way too expensive for me. But at $200, it's more like buying an MP3 player, or a dvd/blueray player. Nobody cares that they can't hack their dvd player. They just want it to work and play movies

That sounds good. But in a few years, that $400 laptop will be running Windows 8 and it will be locked down almost as much as an iPad...

Re:Innovation

[bingoUV]

Economies of scale for stores (online or brick-and-mortar) to stock them will certainly plummet if businesses end up buying 95% of desktops and laptops. Companies directly focussing on consumer sales would stop doing so.

E.g. ever tried conacting Intel if you want to buy one of their CPUs? There is no dearth of economy of scale for Intel CPUs but they don't cater to retail. Dell, HP etc. could end up in a similar state.

Re:Innovation

[Anonymous Coward]

you forgot 4. they're tracking and monitoring your life for good opportunities to market you and make even more money off advertising.

Weirdly enough, a lot of people don't see that as a problem.

I'm one of those people, and I don't see anything weird about it. In fact, to me it seems weird that so many people are so upset about the idea of being marketed to more accurately. I don't get it. It's like you are admitting that you have no self control and that, with better marketing, they are going to be able to trick you into parting with your money. That's seems like more of a personal problem you should be concerned about and try to deal with yourself, as it's going to be a problem at some level even without targetted advertising.

For me, if I buy something, it's because I'm interested, I've researched it, and I've determined it's the best value for me based on available information. A commercial might make me aware of a product I eventually buy, but if I buy it, it's because I've researched it and it suits my needs quite well. It's just as often that a commercial makes me aware of a product category, I go research the product, and end up buying a competing product that I think will suit my needs better.

Don't get me wrong. For the most part I hate advertising and avoid it every chance I get. But for as much as I can't avoid it, I'd prefer the advertising that I do see to be as targetted as possible.

Desktop Android

[Andy Prough]

Desktop Android would steal 30% of the market for new laptop installations from MS within just a few years. If Asus wants to make monster profits, it would push for Desktop Android to get to market on its devices sooner rather than later.

Re:Desktop Android

[Anonymous Coward]

Put it in the boot roms :) , even better.

Re:Desktop Android

[Anonymous Coward]

Am i using a different android to the rest of you (jellybean 4.1)? Because android (as clever as parts of it are) has gaping holes of functionality. I only get away with it on the phone because i don't do anything very complex, and if i ever i try it only ends in tears (that said trying to use ios in the same capacity drive me to suicide)

Re:Desktop Android

[LordLucless]

because i don't do anything very complex

As many people don't do with their laptops. There's a reason the GP didn't say 100% of laptop sales in his post. You're obviously not one of the 30%

Re:Desktop Android

[marcosdumay]

Well, if you take a look, you'll find plenty of Android netbooks to buy.

They aren't selling like water, but they are selling. That 30% figure is well within reason, but it will take some time to achieve. Android is still fringe.

Re:Desktop Android

[h4rr4r]

Such as?

I really only use it for ssh and games, but what is missing exactly?

Re:Desktop Android

[bazorg]

What the guy said was "Android Desktop" and if taken literally, I think he's got a point. The smartphone and tablet boom has shown (to me at least) that a) people are actually OK with using new UIs; b) people dislike the complexity that comes with normal PCs and will accept some compromise.

If people are willing to use an ugly keyboard add-on with their iPad; if they are OK with web-based office applications; if they are OK with beta-quality apps and adverts on their screen... I think some would be fine with using an android-based desktop PC, be it standalone or embeeded on their 23" screen.

Re:Desktop Android

[squiggleslash]

I think we need a version of Android that has a UI and functionality suited to the desktop first. Oh, and apps that support it.

It wasn't until Jelly Bean (yes, I said JB - I've used HC and ICS, and I've used them on tablets) that Google finally figured out how to make a decent tablet UI. I think we're years away from an Android suitable for the desktop.

Also, a relatively fair question is why? If Android had a decent desktop UI, then wouldn't it be more convenient for most people to use their phones as a convergant device, using it as a phone on the road, and docking it with a monitor, pointing device, and keyboard when they're somewhere where portability isn't a requirement? The Android laptop seems... well, it seems like a stop-gap product.

Re:Desktop Android

[Anonymous Coward]

Desktop Android would steal 30% of the market for new laptop installations from MS within just a few years.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. Good joke.

Re:Desktop Android

[CAIMLAS]

It would have to be marketed and priced correctly. I'm thinking in the 300-500 dollar price range, with a 20" display of decent resolution, wireless keyboard and mouse, and possibly something akin to a Wii infrared controller. Then they'd basically have to market it like Apple did the iMac all those years ago when it was initially offered.

For maybe $250, if they were to do the same thing but as a dock for Android phones of 4.0 or greater release, I'd buy one.

The Transformer has done much what you say, but to the Netbook market. It's easily 1 out of every 2 "small laptops" I see now. People seem to do OK using it as a full on replacement, and many even prefer it over a Windows 7 machine or a Mac, from what I've seen.

Re:Desktop Android

[amiga3D]

more secure too.

Re:Desktop Android

[deniable]

Desktop Android? Why will it be better than any other desktop Linux distro?

Re:Desktop Android

[Tough Love]

Desktop Android would steal 30% of the market for new laptop installations from MS within just a few years.

Totally with you on that. Basically, all they need to do is implement "KDE for touchscreens" and call it Android. It's the Google brand that sells it, much more so than the wizzy-or-not dumbed down UI of the week.

Re:Desktop Android

[Tough Love]

If people are willing to use an ugly keyboard add-on with their iPad

iPad keyboard addons are not ugly, and I'm an Apple hater. iPad with a keyboard case is physically quite usable. iOS is a different story though, it's more a matter of working around it than working with it for keyboard centric tasks. Android also has its flaws in that regard, but I'll wager they get addressed first in Android. Just because of the massive takeup, including a look of geek hackers who know what they're doing.

Re:Desktop Android

[Anonymous Coward]

I suspect that Ubuntu for Android (http://www.ubuntu.com/devices/android) is as close as we are likely to get, and it does make more sense to me. At the end of the day I can understand Android on devices up to the smaller netbooks, but above a certain screen size I suspect that even the most basic users are going to start noticing the problems with full screen only apps, limited multitasking and the similar issues that really do make the simplicity of mobile OS's limiting.

Is that a 6% profit?

[muon-catalyzed]

Looks like some nasty weather ahead for the captain Cook.
/s

Gross revenue?

[stephanruby]

Gross revenue only gives us a small part of the picture. Another important measure is net profits. I'm getting tired of these spin-doctored stories.

And yes, I do love my Asus Nexus 7, but I just don't believe Asus made that much money from the transaction. Initially, people even thought that Asus lost money on each Nexus 7 sold (although, that was later dis-proven after the hardware was torn down and accounted for).

Re:Gross revenue?

[Andy Prough]

They reported net profits of $230 million - up 43% from $160 million last year. Its in the engadget article.

Re:Gross revenue?

[Andy Prough]

Apple reported an $8.2 billion net profit for the quarter, not $15 billion. It was up 24% from $6.6 billion in the same quarter last year. http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2012/10/25Apple-Reports-Fourth-Quarter-Results.html

Re:Gross revenue?

[Anonymous Coward]

sorry, i thought we were talking gross profit but after looking at the asus number, you are correct that it is net profit instead.

Re:Gross revenue?

[MightyYar]

Pffft... with that, Apple could barely construct and equip a nuclear aircraft carrier!

Re:Gross revenue?

[Anonymous Coward]

Shhh, don't give them ideas. They may build one and head towards South Korea...

Re:Gross revenue?

[Desler]

Yeah that had me cracking up. $230 million in profit off of $3.8 billion in revenue hardly sounds "massive" at all. That actually looks pretty terrible.

Re:Gross revenue?

[amiga3D]

Isn't that about the average corporate CEO's salary now?

Re:Gross revenue?

[Tough Love]

Pffft... with that, Apple could barely construct and equip a nuclear aircraft carrier!

Oh yeah, you're right, and after their troll legal abuse strategy fails that's exactly what Apple will need to stop Android. Tim better start saving up.

nexus 7 i hardly open

[Anonymous Coward]

If the nexus 7 is the most open tablet experience possible I have a terrible dystopian future for you. Now if it was running linux (i don't mean the advertising giant's linux re-imagined to track you, i mean something like plasma active) had a usb port, hdmi port and a sd card, then it would be a different story.

Re:nexus 7 i hardly open

[rtfa-troll]

If the nexus 7 is the most open tablet experience possible I have a terrible dystopian future for you. Now if it was running linux (i don't mean the advertising giant's linux re-imagined to track you, i mean something like plasma active) had a usb port, hdmi port and a sd card, then it would be a different story.

The Nexus does have a USB port; Oh, you say, but that's device only. No; just buy one of these cables and you have a USB host port you can connect to a hub.

Once you've got that + a version of Ubuntu which works on the device, getting Plasma Active running should be "trivial".

It looks like the distopian future does have an escape clause.

Re:nexus 7 i hardly open

[rtfa-troll]

Does that cable power your device at the same time?

No, I think the OTC standard doesn't support both power and host mode at the same time. The device does support that though. I read on a forum that there has been success is a way of hacking that by connecting power to the correct pins. It would be really nice if someone linked to a pre-made cable which would do both host mode and power.

Re:nexus 7 i hardly open

[sumdumass]

Couldn't you just use the cable into a powered USB hub? I know it's somewhat unsophisticated- especially when trying to be mobile, but the powered hub is supposed to solve power deficiency problems on regular devices. I suppose you could even rig a battery and charger to it. I don't know if there are any already like that or not.

Re:nexus 7 i hardly open

[Anonymous Coward]

You could power the devices you hook up to the hub, but i don't think it could power/charge the tablet at the same time.

Re:nexus 7 i hardly open

[Lumpy]

Then buy one. X86 tablets have ben around for more than a decade.

And rightly so

[siddesu]

I've been using a Nexus 7 since this July, and this is the best tablet of the lot I've tried -- and that includes an Ipad, an Ipad2, the original Galaxy Tab, the 10" galaxy, the galaxy note, a toshiba AT570/36F, several book readers and a couple of hi-end "china tablets". The balance of price, hw specs, OS and apps quality is just right. Finally there is a tablet offering that is worth buying.

Re:And rightly so

[Anonymous Coward]

I wish I had a "LIKE" button on this post. I wholeheartedly agree that the Nexus 7 tablet is awesome. I have the new 32gb model and it puts the iPad to shame.

Re:And rightly so

[Tough Love]

I wish I had a "LIKE" button on this post. I wholeheartedly agree that the Nexus 7 tablet is awesome. I have the new 32gb model and it puts the iPad to shame.

I have a Xoom and an Nexus 7. I leave them lying around the house and my kid is always using one or the other of them. The Xoom gets used a lot because of its back facing camera, just the thing for making kiddy videos. (No, they don't get uploaded to Youtube, that will be a foggy day in hell.) The Nexus gets used a lot for various other reasons. On the whole, the Nexus will be grabbed in preference to the Xoom, perhaps because of the kid-friendly size, but I would call them both "widly popular". My mother has an iPad which basically got used as a full time Bookworm[tm] platform for a couple of months and now sits gathering dust because she gravitated back to her considerably more functional PC. Not apples-to-oranges by any means, but it seems somehow indicative.

ASUS makes darned fine tablets.

[symbolset]

I adore my TF101. It was killer gear when I bought it last summer and it still is. It gets used by somebody in the house every single day without fail, usually for hours. My grandson (4) takes pictures and videos with it when he's done playing Minecraft and I watch some of them when I have time. My youngest (6) uses it to video chat me up on oovoo. I take it on trips to watch mpeg4's on the plane and Netflix in the hotel. I use it for documentation on the fly, training materials and reference works. I've used it to elevator pitch and present 1080p slideshows in conference rooms. With it and Citrix, various remote desktop apps and the like I can use it to do anything a PC or server can do.

I'm in the biz so I have a house full of IT gear. 4 tablets, 6 servers, a dozen PCs, and more "smart" devices than anybody needs. These outnumber the humans at least 5 to one. The only tech thing that sees more use in my house than this ASUS tablet is the Comcast router that delivers the Internet to all the rest.

The only problem I have with this device is fighting for control of it. Money well spent.

At $200 for the 16GB Nexus 7 tablet from ASUS, there is a good chance there will be more than one of these under my tree on Christmas morning.

Don't call me an Apple hater. My review of the iPads I received on launch day is right there in my /. journal and none could call it anything but "effusive". But Apple's cathedral isn't for me when I can get stuff like this and the Nexus 10 instead.

Recommended.

Re:ASUS makes darned fine tablets.

[Anonymous Coward]

To add to this, Asus has been bringing Android updates regularly to even the most basic of its model. I couldn't believe my eyes when I saw the ICS upgrade pop up on my TF101. Way to go!

Re:ASUS makes darned fine tablets.

[Anonymous Coward]

Seconded. You don't say if you have the keyboard as well, but I do. As well as enabling you to touch type it has another battery which boosts battery life substantially. I look at my old netbook as something out of the dark ages by comparison. Whether it can replace someone's laptop is up to them, but I don't feel any need for a laptop when I have the Transformer.

Openness? I do not think so

[tanveer1979]

I am an android user. Used to have a LG-P500, and then got a Galaxy note. My brother owns a Note Tablet(10")
I am a big supported of android, but I do not think the platform is really open.
For example, I recently bought a camera. I went to the merchant site, got it shipped to somebody in USA, and he will bring it to India.
However, if I want to do the same with Nexus 10, I cannot. Google simply says, sorry, devices not enabled in google play in your country.

So I would have to request the person in US to use their credit card to buy, if I want this device.
Software openness and app ecosystem is good, but I somehow do not like the way Google is selling this stuff.

Why not let it be like consumer electronics with multiple points of sale. Heck, google could sell it to anybody in the world, with that person bearing shipping charges.
I can do that with amazon, why not google

And guess what, rumour has it that these devices won't even be launched in India officially(just like the original Nexus were never launched here).

Re:Openness? I do not think so

[AlphaWolf_HK]

A lot of that has to do with legal liabilities that need to be sorted out. For example, what are the consequences of providing secure content delivery? In some countries, encryption is illegal, so they may have to make massive re-designs, and do other R&D, which may cost a lot. Along with that, they'll have to figure out if they'll even get a return on investment. Also they may face a public relations backlash for conforming to what the west considers to be oppressive laws.

I imagine that in many cases, they'll simply eat a loss, which is why they'll never market it there. I don't know about India in particular, but I imagine that if there was money to be made there, they would do so.

Re:Openness? I do not think so

[Anonymous Coward]

This has nothing to do with Google, it has to do with trade limitations imposed by host countries.

You can't access YouTube on the day before elections in Brazil. I can't access a bunch of YouTube movies in South Africa "due to copyright restrictions".

And your comparison to Amazon is also unfair. I can't buy anything from Amazon in either US or the UK. They won't sell to South Africa either. There are exceptions to this, but it broadly applies to all electronics.

Re:Openness? I do not think so

[Anonymous Coward]

Since when was using illegal stuff on linux an issue? Not just watching dvds, all the patents, etc.

Re:Openness? I do not think so

[tanveer1979]

No, there are no restrictions in India. Most Android phones make it here(Samsung,LG,Garmin,Dell.....) But nexus never does. I think they do not want to cannibalize Samsung S series which are the largest selling phones in India in the high end market. So it has nothing to do with law, its just equivalent to using a walled garden.

Re:Openness? I do not think so

[tanveer1979]

Mobiles phones are not banned in India. You can buy cell phones from Amazon if you want, but you have to pay customs and shipping.
I find it quite amusing that people are so eager to defend google!

Re:Openness? I do not think so

[sumdumass]

Using isn't that big of an issue, if you get caught, it's your ass.

The problem is when a company sells it. Especially when that company is large enough that everyone involve will see dollar signs and possibly an opportunity to take a cut every time they mention the name.

Re:Openness? I do not think so

[ramsun]

I live in India, and I can (and have) bought Nexus devices and Android software off Google Play. So their block is not implemented consistently.

Also, this has nothing to do with protecting Samsung. Many sites have restrictions on cross-border transactions. The reasons vary, but the most consistent reason is that the territory is with a different operating unit. For example, Google India would want to launch Nexus in India when they're ready, and so Google USA doesn't sell to Indian customers.

I agree that this is silly. All they have to do is to say warranties apply only in the US. But Google is not the only company doing this.

Re:Openness? I do not think so

[LordLucless]

How does the vendor's storefront have anything to do with the openness of their product?

Re:Openness? I do not think so

[invalid-access]

Just use a US-based proxy server to visit that page. That's how I listen to Pandora/Spotify.

Re:Openness? I do not think so

[h4rr4r]

What does that have to do with openness?
Cannot you not do a git pull from India?

Google play is not open, nor anything more than one of many android markets.

Re:Openness? I do not think so

[Anonymous Coward]

If the product was open the storefront wouldn't be able to tell the difference.

Re:Openness? I do not think so

[TheGratefulNet]

I find it quite amusing that people are so eager to defend google!

spend more than a few weeks here and it becomes obvious that as long as google 'gives away' shiny software apps and other toys, people will defend them to the end of the earth.

usually its the younger crowd who was brought up from early years to believe in the idea that privacy_is_dead. they bought this BS hook line and sinker and they'll tell the big G anything it wants to know. they could care less! throw caution to the wind.

older guys, uhm, not so much.

yes, its generational. I do not find many people of middle age or older (who are in the tech sector) who fellate google like the younger crowd does.

apple has its frothing-at-the-mouth fanboys and so does google. very different reasons, but they are both kind of annoying and childish.

humans love to associate with a 'team'. sports, religion, politics and yes, hardware/software products, too.

misplaced tribalism really can be a down-side to humanity. sigh.

Re:Openness? I do not think so

[rtfa-troll]

spend more than a few weeks here and it becomes obvious that as long as google 'gives away' shiny software apps and other toys, people will defend them to the end of the earth.

I don't think it's that. Google used to get lots of bad press on Slashdot and the better shills still regularly push anti-Google stuff. I think that it was after Facebook got caught spreading lies about Google that plenty of us re-evaluated these things. When you look into it, most of the anti-Google stuff seems to be supported by Microsoft financed pressure groups. This is certainly true of the anti-trust stuff. When it comes to privacy, the difference between Google and Facebook is that Google only sells anonymized data, but that is very rarely mentioned.

Very few people around here actually think Google is truly good. They are clearly far lesser evil in a competition with Microsoft, Facebook and Apple. If people don't support Google there will be no benefit to be seen from companies which at least try not to do some of the more gregarious bad stuff. Not one of those other companies, for example, has ever even considered annoying China.

Re:Openness? I do not think so

[AlphaWolf_HK]

I don't get it then. Why was RIM required to hand over its encryption keys to the Indian government? And why was there a slashdot article recently saying that using higher than 40-bit encryption was banned in India a few weeks ago?

Also, the latest versions of Android feature hardware based 128-bit full disk encryption on Nexus devices, in addition to the secure element which hides payment data. That could be a problem, and I am a bit dubious that Google would want to make multiple different versions of Nexus devices for different regions. Samsung on the other hand probably wouldn't mind.

Transformer Infinity 1920x1200 screen

[Anonymous Coward]

My reason for buying the Asus infinity was the 1920x1200 screen, coupled to the quad core Tegra 3. I needed more processing power and the bigger screen was like 4 Android phones stacked side by side.

*However* If I was to buy today, it would be the Nexus 10. Which I think is made by LG not Asus. That one has a 2560-by-1600 (300ppi) screen and is a little cheaper, but 2 cores slightly faster than each of mine:
http://www.google.com/nexus/10/

The keyboard on the Infinity prime, well I like keyboards, but it clips on, and then only in landscape to make like a laptop. I would have preferred a drop-in docking station with a keyboard, since I only ever want to take the tablet with me, not the keyboard. I want to just drop it in place and it charges and can use the keyboard. I also want the HDMI on the docking station rather than the tablet, and want to be able to dock it in portrait. Also lose the track pad, I never use it with Android and it's a waste of space. Lose the battery in the keyboard, and thus lose the special power adapter needed for the battery in the keyboard.

Microsoft Surface RT, BTW, the screen has a question mark over it, since it seems to be a 1280x800 stretch screen. Not the 1366x768 they claim.
iFixit found it was a LTL106AL01-002
http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Microsoft+Surface+Teardown/11275/2

Which is a 1280x800 wide pixel unit and matches the original surface developer kit requirements:
http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/664763875/LTL106AL01_002_laptop_led_screen.html

So somebody with a microscope needs to take a look at Microsoft's screen and see if they're short changing you.

Re:Transformer Infinity 1920x1200 screen

[Anonymous Coward]

nexus 10 is samsung nexus 4 is LG.

Re:Transformer Infinity 1920x1200 screen

[Anonymous Coward]

I absolutely loved the clip-on keyboard with it's track pad. Browsing the internet was so much easier.

I guess to each there own but the reason I won't go from a TF101 to the nexus 10 is the lack of keyboard.

I still want a quality, cheap, powerful PC

[jsepeta]

i don't care so much about the brand name. i just want a kickass pc that doesn't cost 2 weeks salary. it has to be reliable, fast, and made from metal not crappy ass rounded plastic.

Re:I still want a quality, cheap, powerful PC

[L4t3r4lu5]

Firstly, "cheap" and "quality" are antonyms. Secondly, the saying goes "Cheap. Small. Fast. Pick two." Your desktop PC will cost around the same as an iPad, be quite a bit faster in all tasks, but will take up around 30x the volume. Equally your Nokia dumb phone costs £30, weighs less than a cup of coffee, but has the processing power of a toaster. Thirdly, Quality Assurance for your fast, reliable PC costs money, and you're going to pay for it. If you want cheap, buy $ChineseRipOff.

Did I just get trolled, or do you really have the mentality of a child? I'm not trying to insult you; You need to sort it out if you really think someone is just waiting to give you that pony you've always wanted.

Re:I still want a quality, cheap, powerful PC

[Stuarticus]

"Cheap" and "quality" are not necessarily antonyms, that would depend on which definition of "cheap" was used. Something can be inexpensive and good quality.

Re:I still want a quality, cheap, powerful PC

[Dodgy G33za]

You have no idea...

I bought my first PC in 1986 for 1500 UK pounds. At the time was almost a third of my annual pre-tax salary so I needed a loan to buy it. I used it to hone my coding skills and my salary increased five fold by 1990.

PC's have come down massively in the last few years, and continue to improve in performance. Don't know so much about reliability and sturdiness though. My first PC weighed a ton and would have survived a nuclear attack.

Two ways you can get what you want. Either get a better paid job. Or wait. Do both for best results with your goal.

Re:I still want a quality, cheap, powerful PC

[h4rr4r]

How low is your salary? For one week of middle of the road USA salary you can get a really nice PC.

Re:I still want a quality, cheap, powerful PC

[Zagnar]

Perhaps you should be building your own computer, eh? It takes time from you in the form of research and construction but you get to decide on the parts, the hardware and how much it costs. Really, this is Slashdot, building your own should be the logical conclusion for every electronics dilemma.

Re:I still want a quality, cheap, powerful PC

[mcgrew]

"Cheap" and "quality" are not necessarily antonyms

They are to fools who believe "you get what you pay for" and who think anything free is worthless. Which I suspect the GP is one of. But like you, I've seen many times where the cheap shit cost more than the quality shit. The GP wouldn't even consider the quality, only the price. To some people, "worth" and "quality" are always counted in dollars. But like I said, they're fools. That 60 cent store brand can of corn came from the same fields and went through the same processing as the $1 can. Look how much Alieve they sell, even though it costs three times what generic Naproxin costs and it's the same damned chemical!

I'd bet a donut to a dollar* that when the GP gets a headache, he tales Alieve.

* It used to be dollars to donuts before inflation, when donuts were a dime a dozen.

Props to ASUS

[B33RM17]

It's good to see Asus posting a healthy profit thanks to their Android offerings. I'm sure the Nexus 7 was a good chunk of that.

Also, I wasn't surprised they mentioned HTC and their recent market woes. After buying the latest iteration of the EVO, I'm convinced they screwed themselves into this position with their own software. The build quality of their phone is top notch with the One series. However, the most recent releases of their Sense UI skin for Android have been some of the most bloated software I've ever used. This phone was lagging and taking it's sweet time loading anything within a few hours out of the box. Definitely a turn off for customer. I understand they want to differentiate their product and add increased value to the customer, but AOSP Android has been great since Ice Cream Sandwich. HTC really should stop trying to fix what isn't broken and offer some AOSP devices, along with some that have a much less cumbersome version of their framework added on. Sense has some features I really miss after putting a Jelly Bean ROM on my phone, but they definitely aren't compelling enough to make me switch back. /rant

Also, I'm curious to see if their Windows Phone 8 offerings start selling better than their Android phones. The WP8 devices have been getting some great reviews.

Re:Props to ASUS

[Simon Brooke]

Couldn't agree more about your comments on HTC. I have an HTC One X. It's a fine phone, powerful, stylish, well featured. But the HTC add-ons really bring it down, to the extent that I won't buy another HTC unless they sell stock Android.

Re:Props to ASUS

[Anonymous Coward]

Same here. This will probably be the last device I buy from them unless they get their act together and start listening to what customers want. Once my contract is up, or I find a way to break out of it, I'm going Nexus all the way.

Re:economics 201

[Anonymous Coward]

Build stuff people want to buy, make a profit

Build stuff people want to buy, dominate the market, acieve a monopoly, make a way more profit

Open

[Anonymous Coward]

With sympathy to openness, some credit must be with the rampant piracy, content theft and counterfeiting aided by google's disinterest for developers.
Let me put it this way: I make 8 times more on a Symbian version of apps then on android.

Re:Open

[h4rr4r]

With no sympathy to a lying AC, no you don't.

Otherwise you would have offered some evidence for such a crazy claim. I know lots of android users, many root and use alternate roms, not a one pirates anything. Why bother pirating what you can buy for less than a beer at the bar?

Largest personal computer manufacture?

[drkim]

I have to question the original post statement,

now that Apple is the largest personal computer manufacturer

I can only assume you are referring to market capitalization, and not actual computers sold.

As far as computers sold, it would be (third quarter 2012):

Worldwide:
Lenovo Group Ltd., 13.8 million shipped worldwide, 15.7 percent share
Hewlett-Packard Co., 13.6 million shipped, 15.5 percent
Dell Inc., 9.2 million, 10.5 percent
Acer Group, 8.6 million, 9.9 percent
AsusTek Computer Inc., 6.4 million, 7.3 percent
Others, 36.0 million, 41.1 percent.
Total: 87.5 million

United States:
Hewlett-Packard Co., 4.1 million shipped in U.S., 27.0 percent share
Dell Inc., 3.3 million, 21.4 percent
Apple Inc., 2.1 million, 13.6 percent
Lenovo Group Ltd., 1.4 million, 8.9 percent
Acer Group, 989,725, 6.5 percent.
Toshiba, 989,600, 6.5 percent
Others, 2.5 million, 16.2 percent.
Total: 15.3 million

Source: Gartner

Re:Largest personal computer manufacture?

[rtfa-troll]

Sorry; I meant to link to either this article or this article which would have made it clear what the measure was. It's personal computers in the strict sense of computers which designed for use by one person as opposed to "PCs" as in IBM PC clones.

Re:Largest personal computer manufacture?

[jovius]

You can count them as shipped laptops/desktops, but a laptop for example is essentially the same as a tablet. The difference is that for a tablet a keyboard etc are accessories, whereas in laptops they are built in. The same goes with mobile phones. They are all personal computers, which today are packed with more power and features than the PC's of the past. The field is being miniaturized and diversified, as the concept of personal computer detaches from the rigid paradigm and moves towards the network mimicking its features; thus becoming less physical.

Re:Largest personal computer manufacture?

[LodCrappo]

...a laptop for example is essentially the same as a tablet except that a laptop can run the software businesses have spent the last 30 years developing, and the tablet can't

ftfy

Re:Largest personal computer manufacture?

[drinkypoo]

...a laptop for example is essentially the same as a tablet except that a laptop can run the software businesses have spent the last 30 years developing, and the tablet can't

don't worry, Microsoft is fucking things up again in Windows 8 to break a bunch of that stuff, so that they can sell the users more shit, so that doesn't differentiate a tablet from a PC.

Re:Largest personal computer manufacture?

[LodCrappo]

Sorry, an article from appleinsider.com full of quotes from Tim Cook (and only Tim Cook, not a single outside analyst) doesn't hold much merit. It's marketing, not fact or news.

As for your other "source", it doesn't support your claims at all.

> Coulling believes that tablets will continue to pressure PC and notebook sales "in the short term,"

How exactly does an analyst predicting short term pressure on the PC market translate into the iPad eliminating the PC market? Where do you people come up with this crap?

Also interesting that both of your sources are from 10 months ago. Maybe that's because more recent numbers show a decline in iPad sales?

http://www.unwiredview.com/2012/10/26/apple-reports-q3-2012-results-iphone-sales-up-ipad-sales-down/

Re:Largest personal computer manufacture?

[LodCrappo]

fair enough

Re:Largest personal computer manufacture?

[jovius]

The field is inevitably changing. The number of different devices is hugely different than 30 years ago, and the software/hardware will adapt. Besides you can run the same software via virtualization. It's entirely possible to use Windows for example with an iPad today.

Re:Largest personal computer manufacture?

[LodCrappo]

Everyone knows its possible, but most people realize its not practical. Try telling the average office worker with two 24 inch monitors, a full keyboard and a mouse on their desk that now they'll be using a remote windows session on a 10 inch screen. See how that goes over.

As far as "the software will adapt".... I suspect you haven't actually seen the software most businesses run on. Even in places where adapting to a tablet is possible, it is an expense that has to be justified.

Average IT guy to phb: "We need to rewrite the legacy inventory system"
PHB: "No."
IT guy: "but it doesn't run on tablets. it's horrible to use with a touch screen."
PHB: "Why do we care?"
IT guy: "bbbbbbut ipad, tablet, post-pc, cloud!?!"
PHB: "No."

Replace "tablet" with every other buzzword tech that has happened over the past few decades, repeat process above. There's the history of most business software.

Re:Largest personal computer manufacture?

[Anonymous Coward]

Sorry; I meant to link to either this article or this article which would have made it clear what the measure was. It's personal computers in the strict sense of computers which designed for use by one person as opposed to "PCs" as in IBM PC clones.

So I guess we can dismiss apple's "post-pc era" bullshit then?

and a mac is not a pc, a pc is not a pc, but ipads is a pc?

Re:Largest personal computer manufacture?

[marcosdumay]

I can only assume you are referring to market capitalization, and not actual computers sold.

Whatever it is, I'm completely sure the GP wasn't refering to computers manufactured, since Apple doesn't manufacture computers. What, by the way, is a strange feature for the "largest personal computer manufacturer"...

Re:Largest personal computer manufacture?

[RyuuzakiTetsuya]

If that laptop's running OSX, then no. That laptop can't be running software that hasn't been in constant development for 30 years.

OR

If it was successfully ported to OSX using Cocoa, then porting it to Cocoa Touch for iOS would be trivial and using a corporate iOS deployment server means you can deploy Touch versions of that software.

What's your point?

People don't do "real work" on tablets? Other than writing, spreadsheets, SSH, art, music, video and maybe some photography, sure. no one uses tablets for "real work."

Re:Largest personal computer manufacture?

[Anonymous Coward]

That would make Apple the ONLY manufacturer of personal computers. As far as I'm aware, Windows and Linux are both designed with multiple users in mind. Actually, that's not even true. This must refer.... yes, that's it! Apple is the largest manufacturer of iPads!

Re:Largest personal computer manufacture?

[nitehawk214]

Your story makes it sound like the PHB is a reasonable guy. Here is a more realistic story:

PHB: We need to add features X, Y and Z to our legacy inventory system
IT guy: The code is a giant pile of garbage, it would be cheaper and faster to rewrite the whole thing.
PHB: No
IT guy: But we could update it to support modern devices.
PHB: No
IT guy: But it would be less expensive to maintain in the long run.
PHB: Why do we care?

Re:Largest personal computer manufacture?

[edremy]

Of course the alternate version of that story

PHB: We need to add features X, Y and Z to our legacy inventory system
IT guy: The code is a giant pile of garbage, it would be cheaper and faster to rewrite the whole thing.
PHB: Ok, give it a try
(Six months pass)
PHB: How's the new inventory control system?
IT Guy: Going great- we just need some more time to get it functional
(Six months pass)
PHB: How's the new inventory control system? We really could use it
IT Guy: Almost done. We just need to make sure it supports the latest standards
(Six months pass)
PHB: Need that inventory control system guys...
IT Guy: Well, the standards have been in a bit of flux and when you're trying to put out really modern code you need to deal with that. By the way, we need a lot beefier server to handle the load, ok? It's a bit slow right now
(Six months pass)
PHB: Um, hello?
IT Guy: Really, it's almost done. It's going to be amazing! We're in the process of rearchtecting the main DB module to support Foobar 2.6 right now since Foobar 2.5 wasn't quite ready for prime time.
(Six months pass)
PHB: Look guys, we have to have this *now*. The legacy code can't run much longer without maintenance.
IT Guy: Well, here's my notice- I found a great new job programming cool Ruby code with a startup. I've put some comments in the code that should let you figure out what it does. It should build fine provided you only use the exact environment I specify and the front end works on a beta version of Chrome I downloaded. Go ahead and ship!

Re:Largest personal computer manufacture?

[nitehawk214]

This is why IT departments should not be in the business of writing software, and big projects actually need project managers.

Re:Largest personal computer manufacture?

[kimvette]

People don't do "real work" on tablets? Other than writing, spreadsheets, SSH, art, music, video and maybe some photography, sure. no one uses tablets for "real work."

. . . and increasingly in use as point of sale and payment terminals, in medical clinics (clipboard/medical chart/drug reference/etc.), construction sites, business networking events, and so on. Aside from all those tasks, no one uses a tablet for real work. Oh, and aside from vehicle diagnostics, DJing, hmm, wait a sec. Maybe people do use tablets for real work!

Re:Largest personal computer manufacture?

[drkim]

I guess, like so many debates, this boils down to what we are calling a "personal computer."

Is my car a "personal computer" since it has built-in GPS, phone, auto-parking, etc.?
Is my watch a "personal computer" if it has smart-phone features?
Is my music player a "personal computer" if I can surf the web with it?
Is my e-reader a "personal computer" if I can send email with it?
Is anything with a chip in it a "personal computer?"

Being old-school, I think of a proper "personal computer" as a clunky box with monitor, keyboard, etc., but until we define our terms, there's nothing to debate.

"It depends on what the meaning of the words 'is' is."
–Bill Clinton, 1998

Re:Largest personal computer manufacture?

[tepples]

You don't need to rewrite; you need to refactor. Estimate how much time it will cost to write tests and refactor those pieces that need to be refactored to get X, Y, and Z working, and then include that in the cost of implementing X, Y, and Z.

Re:Largest personal computer manufacture?

[tepples]

If that laptop's running OSX, then no. That laptop can't be running software that hasn't been in constant development for 30 years.

OK, you win, 23 years.

using a corporate iOS deployment server

What are the requirements for a company before it qualifies to sign up for that kind of developer program?

Re:Largest personal computer manufacture?

[RyuuzakiTetsuya]

$299/year.

Not cheap, but not expensive either.

https://developer.apple.com/programs/ios/enterprise/

If you've got an in-house developer developing custom applications for a team of users, 300 bucks is probably less than what you spend on donuts for the weekly meeting.

Re:Largest personal computer manufacture?

[Anonymous Coward]

Everyone knows its possible, but most people realize its not practical. Try telling the average office worker with two 24 inch monitors, a full keyboard and a mouse on their desk that now they'll be using a remote windows session on a 10 inch screen. See how that goes over.

As far as "the software will adapt".... I suspect you haven't actually seen the software most businesses run on. Even in places where adapting to a tablet is possible, it is an expense that has to be justified.

Average IT guy to phb: "We need to rewrite the legacy inventory system"
PHB: "No."
IT guy: "but it doesn't run on tablets. it's horrible to use with a touch screen."
PHB: "Why do we care?"
IT guy: "bbbbbbut ipad, tablet, post-pc, cloud!?!"
PHB: "No."

Replace "tablet" with every other buzzword tech that has happened over the past few decades, repeat process above. There's the history of most business software.

The thing is, now the inventory management can be done by the warehouse manager carrying a tablet, instead of the office worker with two 24 inch monitors, a full keyboard and a mouse on their desk. And as a side effect, the inventory system is more up-to-date and the warehouse manager isn't constantly running up to the office manager for updated printouts.

This is actually happening. Supply chain people love tablets, and in fact, have been using them for years for this purpose. In the past, those were $2000 Windows Tablet PCs, often custom models, but the $500 iPad has already made inroads, because it's cheaper, has better battery life, and doesn't need a stylus. The camera (barcode scanner) helps, too.

The tablet isn't going to replace every PC. There are just going to be tablets in places where PCs never went.

Re:Largest personal computer manufacture?

[shutdown -p now]

Can you give an example of an app that runs on Win7, but does not run on Win8?

Re:Largest personal computer manufacture?

[rtfa-troll]

Look, basic reading comprehension would tell you that when someone says "it is a common opinion that" they mean "something I think is bullshit". Now, I didn't quite mean that, but my article is pretty clearly presenting against the idea that Apple will in future dominate the world. This means that I am not the right person to really argue with you, since I don't believe the things that you seem to want to accuse me of not managing to demonstrate. However, I believe that you should try to understand and present well the other side's arguments. Let's just take two quotes from the articles which you say "doesn't support your [sic] claims at all."

Apple shipped 20 million personal computing devices in the fourth quarter to claim 17% of the total market, according to analysts at Canalys. The numbers include about 15 million iPads and 5 million Macs. That puts Apple ahead of former market leader Hewlett-Packard....

And yes, you can see the catastrophy that faces Microsoft, who once had over 80% of the computer market and also had 12% market share in smartphones with Windows Mobile. Microsoft could have been well poised to survive this transition into the newest computing era if it had nurtured its broad coalition to provide Windows based smartphones (which included Samsung, Sony, Motorola, LG, Dell, Lenovo etc and in 2011, Nokia too).

Just have a look through a few Post-PC articles and you will see plenty of people who believe that the Apple and the iPad will completely dominate the future of computing.

This viewpoint is not completely stupid. For most people in the world a tablet or even a mobile phone is a computing device capable of running all the software they would ever need. There are over 6 Billion mobile phone subscriptions worldwide; in ten years time almost all of them will be "smartphones" in the old sense of being able to run software and most or even the vast majority will be proper modern smartphones.

Once that happens, most applications will just simply cease to take the desktop into account. At that point the future of computing is entirely determined by mobile phone and possibly tablet requirements. Apple is still the dominant manufacture of these when you include phones, tablets, iPods and so on. This used to change if you then added in PC sales, but it doesn't any more. Apple fans believe this sets them up for dominance. I don't agree.

I believe that Android or an Android related system will be the dominant system. However, up till now there has been two big problems with that argument which the Apple fans could point out. Firstly Android users have not been using their phones as computers. They user fewer applications and they do less web browsing. That changed with the Samsung Galaxy series. Secondly, Android has been failing to get into the Tablet market. The news that not just Samsung, but also ASUS are selling huge quantities of tablets changes this completely. Within not so many months Android tablets will be outselling iOS tablets and the mobile operators will have to direct their marketing efforts to save Apple so that they can have a chance to maintain a second eco-system to compete with Google. The fact that Google is dominating with a Nexus tablet which is sold direct means that there is nothing that operators can consider doing to directly damage Android.

Re:Largest personal computer manufacture?

[LodCrappo]

um... have you been inside an actual warehouse? I consult for several distribution businesses including a very large metal supply company. A tablet wouldn't last a week out on the floor. On the other hand they aren't missed much since damn near every warehouse has stations every 50 feet or so containing industrial PCs or even old serial terminals (waay more common than you'd probably think) running inventory control. The forklift operators/floor managers have been carrying wireless barcode scanners, again industrial quality, for maybe 15 years.. there was a period of time prior to that where they used models that required plugging in and downloading every shift but that's long gone. These things are built for the warehouse environment, tough as shit, drop em while scanning a pallet 50 feet in the air onto the concrete floor and they will probably just get a scuff. They cost $200-$300 and often last 5 years or more out on the floor.

I'm not saying you can't find somebody somewhere that can do something with a tablet that these existing systems cannot do... but good luck selling such a solution to warehouse types. They tend to err on the side of "cheap as fuck".

Re:Largest personal computer manufacture?

[LodCrappo]

Look, basic reading comprehension would tell you that when someone says "it is a common opinion that" they mean "something I think is bullshit".

Actually, the phrase "common opinion" has a specific meaning dating back to the Latin "communis opinio".

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Latin_phrases_(C) :

communis opinio / common opinion / prevailing doctrine, generally accepted view (in an academic field), scientific consensus; originally communis opinio doctorum, "common opinion of the doctors"

It so well understood by the majority of us that it's even used in many definitions of the word common, such as this one from dictionary.com:

common (kmn)

— adj
1. belonging to or shared by two or more people: common property
2. belonging to or shared by members of one or more nations or communities; public: a common culture
3. of ordinary standard; average: common decency
4. prevailing; widespread: common opinion

I think your opinion that the phrase means "something I think is bullshit" is in fact quite uncommon.

Now, I didn't quite mean that, but my article is pretty clearly presenting against the idea that Apple will in future dominate the world. This means that I am not the right person to really argue with you, since I don't believe the things that you seem to want to accuse me of not managing to demonstrate.

Yes, my bad for thinking the words you wrote described what you intended to say.

However, I believe that you should try to understand and present well the other side's arguments. Let's just take two quotes from the articles which you say "doesn't support your [sic] claims at all."

I know I'm in uncharted water here, so I won't just assume you use things like "sic" the way the rest of us do. I am interested to know exactly why you added it when you quoted me... I'll be the first to admit I do make typos and grammatical errors, but I like to think I've never been such a douche bag as to call attention to what I thought was such an error in someone else's writing when no error actually existed.

blah blah blah

This viewpoint is not completely stupid.

blah blah blah

I couldn't comment on that, as apparently we speak quite different languages which use the same words by mere coincidence. I've no idea what your point is. Cheers.

Re:Largest personal computer manufacture?

[Tough Love]

All you're saying is, there's a market for industrial Android tablets.

Re:Largest personal computer manufacture?

[rtfa-troll]

Yes, my bad for thinking the words you wrote described what you intended to say.

Let's just look at my words (subordinate clause elided)

a common opinion that[...]a loss of sales combined with Apple's iPad will completely eliminate most of them. Now Asustek's most recent results show that there may be a way out for those that can move away from their standard markets.

Two clearly contrasting and, in a sense contradictory sentences. 'It's a common opinion that'/'now we see that's not true'. Clearly it cannot be true that the PC manufacturers will be eliminated if they have a way out. It doesn't matter what "common opinion" means in your opinion, it's clear that the author of those words means it to mean "an opinion which is common". If, on Slashdot, I agreed with the opinion I would write "most people have realised that".

Re:Largest personal computer manufacture?

[LodCrappo]

You are an idiot.

What does that translate to in your bullshit, rationalized, backpedaling, slimy, made up interpretation of the English language?

Re:Largest personal computer manufacture?

[tepples]

When did Apple eliminate the minimum number of employees for the program?

Re:Largest personal computer manufacture?

[Anonymous Coward]

running both tablets and desktops I have to disagree. No, I stopped running a lappie years ago, decided I didn't want to drag a computer around with me to do what should, ergonomically, be done at a desk. it was a good decision. Now I have a tablet, and I use it for tablet things, not desktop things.

What I am saying is that you can use a cast-iron frying pan as a hammer, and drive in a 16d nail. That doesn't make it a hammer. Same thing, just because you can do it, doesn't mean that it is the right/ good/ sensible thing to do. And, child, don't go telling me that "everyone" is doing it, that don't hold water around here.

Collapse?

[CxDoo]

rtfa-troll writes

Indeed.

Re:Collapse?

[rtfa-troll]

From the summary of linked discussion.

"How bad is HTC's current tailspin? So bad it makes Nokia look like a growth company. HTC's handset volume declined by -43% in the autumn quarter vs. Nokia's -23% volume decline.

By comparison with that "collapse" looks like a pretty safe way of putting it, so much so that I was a bit worried about understating it. Personally I don't think a single quarter fall back in volumes can reasonably be compared to a sustained quarter after quarter loss of sales. I guess that once they stop pushing Windows phones over their Android ones HTC will begin to recover.

Re:Collapse?

[LodCrappo]

Totally agree. PCs have matured enormously in the past 10 years. They have hit a sort of plateau in terms of power and reliability. Combine less compelling reasons to replace/upgrade than we've seen in recent history with the current economy and a slight decline actually looks pretty good.

Re:Collapse?

[Anonymous Coward]

If volume declines by -43% does that mean that it grew?

Re:Collapse?

[CxDoo]

Nah not that collapse. PC as we know it market collapse(& apple the biggest box mover) is what I call troll material.

Re:Collapse?

[rtfa-troll]

I know you probably had a terrible deprived upbringing in a Redmond suburb, but "a common opinion that" in no way means "I believe that". The submission that I was responding to had the title "PC Makers In Desperate Need of a Reboot" and includes phrases like "the trends that have turned selling PCs into one of technology's least profitable and slowest growing niches" and "Dell's market value has also plummeted by 60 percent, to about $20 billion, since the iPhone's release". Please go and argue with that article and not with me.

Whilst we're at it, please have a look at my other most recent comment where I've tried to explain why other people reasonably believe this and I actually do link to articles that show that Apple is / was until very recently the biggest "box" mover.

Re:Collapse?

[CxDoo]

Nah again, this has nothing to do with Microsoft. I'll leave Apple out, too.

The "common opinion that" is nothing but hype. The thing is, "PC" market has plateaued; it's a mature market. Tablets, phones & other gadgets are not "killing" it, they are growing their own market, mostly for the following 2 reasons:
1) 91.23% of population doesn't need more than email, photo/video, web & simple games.
2) People who spent money upgrading their "PC"s every so and so (for values of so and so ~ 1-2 years) do it far less frequently and they can spend that money on other stuff.

Which leaves us with the elephant in the room in these kind of stories, which is business. Business predominantly buys boxes and will continue to do so. There is no comparison to 80's "PC" revolution, as the boxes are in the same ballpark price wise as the hyped gadgetry. There is just no reason for anyone to go through hoops so they can format-shift their business from Wintel/Lintel to whatever.

In a couple of years, when everyone and their grandmother owns a good enough phone/tablet/whatever, we'll have another round of "X is collapsing".

Huh?

[Robert Zenz]

The collapse of the PC market has had much discussion on Slashdot with a common opinion that, now that Apple is the largest personal computer manufacturer, a loss of sales combined with Apple's iPad will completely eliminate most of them.

The PC Market was collapsing? Apple is now the biggest PC manufacturer? We will all now use iPads instead a Desktop-PC? ... ... ... WHAT THE...

Re:Huh?

[Anonymous Coward]

It's social engineering. Spread bullshit often enough, and people start believing it.

Worked wonders with the "intellectual property" lie. Once hated all-around the Internet... with you getting basically mod-stabbed (and rightfully so) for defending it on Slashdot... And now you get modded down for even mentioning that it is a lie. (Note that nobody of those doing the modding have actually ever thought about it. Let alone explored the physical reality of how that should work. [It doesn't, and never can.] They just follow the groupthink. And since they are not forced to comment, they don't even have to touch that emptiness.)

which next step?

[Herve5]

epy-T-R I fully, absolutely agree with your analysis.
My concern anyhow is that people are definitely migrating to this system, both end-users and developers altogether.
I fear, but definitely expect, we'll see very soon a world with unattended fossil apps on PCs Macs and linux boxes, and then walled-garden-tablets for the 90%.

Which brings my next question: how to react, now? What to do?

On my side, a couple of years ago I bought a tiny linux-driven laptop; I wasted quite a time to reach a workable state, and then when it was stolen and I looked for replacement, I discovered Microsoft had lowered its windows rate enought that absolutely nothing was left with Linux by default on it.
That was also the time of the tablets. Fearful of walled gardens, I waited one more year, expecting THE linux tablet. Nothing, nowhere.
Three months ago, I bought a Blackberry Playbook: at least, not surrending the duopoly. Playbook is reasonable, basically I rebuilt all of my processes (save spam-filter in mail, but for instance there indeed is an ad-filtering browser, I indeed can work M$-documents on it, including external slideshows...)
The craziest issue remains lack of root access: things as simple as a backup become nightmares.

I still wait for the future linux tablet, if one comes. I'll be first in the line. But what else?

Re:which next step?

[Anonymous Coward]

> I still wait for the future linux tablet, if one comes. I'll be first in the line. But what else?

Depending on which country you live, you might be in a good or bad situation.

Brazil (where I live) is not the best for Linux end user usage, but we sure have a lot of Linux offers -- the catch is physical retail is in a turmoil now. Sometimes people at stores direct us to their website for common products like silverware or TVs. Thus, Linux PCs, notebooks, netbooks etc. are better be bought online (with few exceptions).

As you predict, and i agree, there will be no incentive for developers to support desktop versions of commercial apps which sell less and less. Linux apps OTOH will probably do well for longer on the desktop -- perhaps even on Windows, but your best bet is Linux IMHO. Android apps will probably converge to a common base with Linux desktop PCs (if touch issues are somehow solved or a dual mode is created) so that even inexpensive paid apps will far more available than they are now. That itself will put Android even more ahead Apple's iOS while making Linux more attractive at the same time.

But answering your question, I'd go for a Linux netbook now, which doesn't cost one an arm and a leg and offers a good experience, provided the processor is not braindamaged and some level of video acceleration is available; I myself still opted for a notebook, as I feel tablet/netbook resources are still too limited.

Re:which next step?

[grumling]

We already had one, but Nokia fell apart before they got it going.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_N9

Hopefully Jolla will be able to produce something, but at this point it won't be much more than a tiny niche player.

Re:which next step?

[Anonymous Coward]

Much like people generally buy a Mac or PC and put Linux on it, you'll soon be putting high quality Linux distros on your tablets. There's a dev preview of Ubuntu for the Nexus 7. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Nexus7/Installation. You can, of course, already install tons and tons of custom open source mods. The form factor doesn't lend itself well to being user maintainable on the hardware side, so sorry about that one.. but all is not lost.

Re:which next step?

[Herve5]

Interesting. As I don't have a Nexus 7, is there a page with some snapshots of the running system?
TIA!

Re:which next step?

[rtfa-troll]

There are some videos on Youtube.

"As PC sales collapse"

[Lincolnshire Poacher]

All aboard the hyperbole bus!

Still 87.5 million PCs ( desktops and laptops ) shipped worldwide in Q3 2012. Yes, MILLIONS.

Some vendors saw a decline of 10% year-on-year. Painful, but that's not a collapse.

In comparison in Q3 2012 Apple shipped 17 million iPads.

So can we please stop saying that tablets have destroyed the PC market?

Re:"As PC sales collapse"

[tommasorepetti]

I keep hearing this phrase repeated in almost every article about tablets. So people have stopped doing work on computers? Technology journalism has really confused the computing industry with glitzy consumer trends. So long as people need to actually produce something there will always been a need for general-purpose computers. Tablets are, in every sense, devices for consuming, not creating. They are damned good at delivering content in a compelling way, and are a great way to store a technical library if you actually want to reference it while you are at work. But that work is being done on a computer. I would argue that those who say that a tablet can give them as much or more functionality than a tradition laptop or desktop were never really making use of the computer in the first place. You might add that you can just get a keyboard for your tablet. I would not disagree. I am just curious why you would buy an underpowered laptop that cannot even be used on your lap when there are conventional PC models that are a better value.

Re:"As PC sales collapse"

[drinkypoo]

87.5 million PCs shipped worldwide. Ignoring for a moment how many of those PCs will end up landfilled or surplused without actually being installed, there's also the issue that you're comparing all PCs sold worldwide with tablets sold by one company.

I do agree with you that tablets haven't yet destroyed the PC market. And I don't really think they will ever destroy it. I am, however, convinced that tablets will surpass desktops.

Re:"As PC sales collapse"

[marcosdumay]

Ignoring for a moment how many of those PCs will end up landfilled or surplused without actually being installed...

Those are way less than the amount of tablets that will be in a landfill two years from now.

That's even the reason the PC market is "colapsing", PCs aren't going to a landfill anymore untill they stop working.

Re:"As PC sales collapse"

[Anonymous Coward]

Remember how the iPad killed the netbook? According to Slashdot, Engadget, MacFanboi.com, and numerous other sources, yes it did.

According to reality? They're still selling by the bucketload. Sales are down, but it's still one of the most popular computer form factors.

Re:"As PC sales collapse"

[drinkypoo]

That's even the reason the PC market is "colapsing", PCs aren't going to a landfill anymore untill they stop working.

Nor are tablets or similar handhelds. They just get passed on to someone else until something fails/is destroyed, usually a button or jack or the display. They're still useful to someone even if they're the oldest examples of the new-era stuff (e.g. Android or iOS, not WinCE.) My only tablet is a hacked-up nook simple touch and it's remarkable how useful it actually is as a computing platform, so long as you don't expect to play Angry Birds on it. Actually, you can play Angry Birds on it, but I only loaded it as a proof of concept so I could snicker at it. It looks remarkably good (applications which treat the display a certain way work nicely) but I imagine it would eat up the display's lifetime in short order.

Given that PC hardware doesn't have anything like the reliability it used to back when clock rates were measured in MHz, I suspect the landfill rate will be higher than you think. Of course, a lot of these mobile devices get abused pretty horribly, but most people aren't buying the cheapest examples that come straight outta china.

Re:"As PC sales collapse"

[Anonymous Coward]

I think tablets are going to hit the hardware plateau much faster than PCs did. It took decades for PCs to get to the point where the average consumer just doesn't need to buy a new PC every few years to do what they need. The average consumer, in fact, could probably not work a Core 2 Duo (from 2007) to its capacity. Tablets are going to get "there" much faster, probably within the next few years.

Re:"As PC sales collapse"

[grumpyman]

I am sure buggy whips were sold in millions the first few years when automobiles just came along. They have not destroy it but it's definitely work in progress.

Re:"As PC sales collapse"

[Anonymous Coward]

That's even the reason the PC market is "colapsing", PCs aren't going to a landfill anymore untill they stop working.

Which is a lot sooner than they used to with the market shift towards laptops. Computers now have a consumable - a battery, which deteriorates over time. New hardware comes down in price quickly enough that we tend to buy new hardware rather than replace batteries (they don't really make replacing batteries easy to do in any case).

Re:"As PC sales collapse"

[Anonymous Coward]

Agreed, I have almost stopped reading tech journalism because they never think outside of their silo. My needs and desires are completely different than the people who write the articles. I don't live a major city, I hate shiny plastic, and I use my computer for more than just writing and photo editing.

Plus the the tech community is dismissive people like me who like to get at least 5-7 (2-3 for phones) years out of our gadgets and computers. Id rather spend my money on trips, and investments than the newest fads.

Re:"As PC sales collapse"

[Anonymous Coward]

All aboard the hyperbole bus!

Still 87.5 million PCs ( desktops and laptops ) shipped worldwide in Q3 2012. Yes, MILLIONS.

Some vendors saw a decline of 10% year-on-year. Painful, but that's not a collapse.

In comparison in Q3 2012 Apple shipped 17 million iPads.

So can we please stop saying that tablets have destroyed the PC market?

And since we know that Android has like 43% of the tablet market, that is an additional 7 million tablets from that for a total of 24 million tablets. So, Tablets have around 20% of the market for PCs. Some other analysts have predicted that by 2016, there will be more Android devices than Windows. It is quite likely since smart phones are already outselling PCs and Android is dominating the cell phone market. The PC market hasn't been destroyed. It is still a work in progress. But, since not even Microsoft is planning on making a desktop operating system anymore, the writing is on the wall.

THERE IS NO COLLAPLE! STOP THE BULLSHIT!

[Anonymous Coward]

It's deliberate bullshit propaganda, to spread the typical delusion of the neckbearded fag that's jacking off onto his gayPad.

"post-PC era"

[Anonymous Coward]

This whole post-pc era meme is a load of shit.
Tablets are ok for watching Hulu on the train or whatever, but they are about damned near useless for most real work - even including typing on pages like Slashdot. (Though some android laptops may be ok for that...). What's more, even if PCs shrink to a smaller segment because there are more casual users than serious ones, there certainly are serious users for whom tablets won't even come close to sufficing. Even more to the point, if you include servers in your definition of "PC" (I do, if PC means an x86 box instead of a "personal computer") - then think of all the servers that have to be provisioned by the likes of apple and google to handle the services for all these smartphones and tablets with system specifications too anemic to actually, say, store a detailed map of the world or do local voice recognition.

True Desktop & Laptops

[justcauseisjustthat]

The sad part is, as tablet, phablets and phones take over computing needs for 70-90% of the population, the developers, etc that need more capabilities will end up paying more and more as the market shrinks.

Re:True Desktop & Laptops

[shutdown -p now]

This is technically a tablet, but I don't see why it wouldn't work well for developers (etc).

Who the fuck wrote this summary

[LodCrappo]

"...a common opinion that, now that Apple is the largest personal computer manufacturer, a loss of sales combined with Apple's iPad will completely eliminate most of them."

How on earth can someone describe the opinion that Apple's tablet is going to "completely eliminate" most PC manufacturers as "common"? (!?!)

Only someone who ignores reality completely could come to such a misguided conclusion... let me guess.. big Apple fan?

News flash: nearly 90 million PCs sold in Q3. 8 times the number of tablets sold. The PC is already commonplace and suffers from it's own success in that they have become so reliable and so capable that upgrades and replacements just aren't that common. The tablet is brand new and new models with compelling improvements come out every few months. Yet still we see massively more PCs sold than tablets.

A single manufacturer of tablets is going to completely eliminate the PC industry?

Sorry, no.

Re:Who the fuck wrote this summary

[Swampash]

I guess you skipped reading comprehension in school, yeah?

Re:Who the fuck wrote this summary

[LodCrappo]

Given that you feel I have poor reading comprehension skills one would think you'd be a little more specific if you actually want me to understand wtf you are on about.

Re:Who the fuck wrote this summary

[Swampash]

Let's imagine that we're talking about a species of animals and their long-term prospects.

You know, it's a pretty common opinion that an asteroid impact combined with poor diet will completely eliminate most of them.

Can you work out the rest?

Re:Who the fuck wrote this summary

[MMC Monster]

Wait. Before we go any further...

We're talking about Earth, right?

Re:Who the fuck wrote this summary

[Anonymous Coward]

Mind if imagine you not being completly obtuse, pointless and actually capable of expressing your opinion without relying on others to imagine what you mean?

Re:Who the fuck wrote this summary

[Anonymous Coward]

Let's imagine that we're talking about a species of animals and their long-term prospects.

You know, it's a pretty common opinion that an asteroid impact combined with poor diet will completely eliminate most of them.

Can you work out the rest?

God, you are a snarky, unfunny prick.

No Asus in Greece

[Anonymous Coward]

As far as I can tell, you cannot buy or order Asus in Greece. Am I wrong?

Re:No Asus in Greece

[rtfa-troll]

Nexus seems pretty difficult to get outside the main markets where it is sold. Where I live you can get them on the grey market.

Nonsense...

[Kupfernigk]

My first company PC was a Dell with a 12.5HMz 286 CPU that cost $4500 in about1986. My first development laptop running a modern OS cost over $3000. My current development laptop is an Asus N56V with 22nm i7, 16G of RAM, a 1920 by 1080 screen, and cost about $1200. It runs SQL Server 2012 and every IDE I need far more than adequately. Development machines aren't a huge market anyway, but the truth is you do not have to pay MacBook prices for the ability to run loads of phone and tablet VMs (OK, not Apple...but Android and BB OS 10, for starters) and do effective development.

If anything, if working computers become less mainstream and more aligned to production needs, some of the more annoying features should go away.

Re:Nonsense...

[justcauseisjustthat]

Nonsense back at ya, you're referring to the pricing of systems from when few people had them to when many people had them (otherwise known as commoditizing) , I'm referring to the opposite process... As fewer and fewer people use desktop PCs, prices will start climbing again (but I have no idea how high that is).

Re:Nonsense...

[Anonymous Coward]

I disagree with this. In 10 years probably your cell phone will have more than enough processing power for even the most rugged desktop users. You'll be playing hi-def games and doing CAD work on these processors. I think the "PC" will transform into a docking station of sorts that you'll plug your mobile device into to give you the peripherals and UI experience that is required for "real" work.

Re:Nonsense...

[narcc]

I've been making that same prediction for more than a decade. So has half of Slashdot.

What was once a dream is now a nightmare as this trend toward closed and proprietary systems overtakes the trend toward interoperability and openness.

I blame Apple and the manufactures copying the bits that are bad for consumers because, hey, Apple can get away with it!

Skeptical it's due to tablets

[Anonymous Coward]

ASUS made decent, quality motherboards for years before getting into the "whole PC" market. Whenever I went shopping for parts to build a machine from scratch, they were the ones I bought, and they still are. They started out as independent parts suppliers, then started making them for major vendors (e.g., HP), then eventually started making and marketing whole machines, both desktop and laptop. I think that has more to do with their success than anything to do with tablets. They've basically turned themselves from a parts supplier to a full computer manufacturer.

Collapse?

[Hadlock]

Really? The PC market has collapsed? They haven't started handing out iPads at work, and I don't know of a store that will sell you microsoft office to load on your iPad. At worst, I would call it a "Gradual tapering off of the incredible growth over the last twenty five years". iPad growth has exploded, but I have yet to see any numbers that show PCs actually decline in double digit numbers. The worst I've seen has been 4% year over year... which is about how the economy is doing depending on how you look at the numbers.

Collapse for the muggles...

[Lumpy]

I still use laptops and desktops heavily. But I actually USE a computer unlike 99% of the people out there. I write software for multiple platforms, I also edit professional video and have a 8 core monster for rendering. but then I used to have a power-mac and a stack of 12 hacked AppleTV-1's running OSX as a Final cut render farm. I still hate that apple turned final cut into iMovie....

Anyways, there will ALWAYS be a market for pc's and high end laptops. I just wish that high end operating systems like linux would have video editing software that was not crap (everything for the linux platofrm for video editing is utter crap, yes I tried all of it... it's all useless crap) Or had a comparable replacement for lightroom. No, none of the OSS photo management apps can even get close to lightroom. Gimp is usable as a replacement for Photoshop despite what the whiners say. And office is a very suitable replacement, again despite the whiners. But there are huge gaping holes in the OSS world for heavy lifting. I just hope that apple does not further dumb down final cut, and that windows does not continue it's downward spiral as the only other real editing platforms are on Windows (AVID and Vegas)

Lickily Linux has it all wrapped up for software development with the best platform. well except for ios development. I still need a mac for that. but everything else that matters is easily programmed for under linux.

Re:Collapse for the muggles...

[Anonymous Coward]

In a decade or so your average cell phone processor is going to outperform your render farm.

Re:Collapse for the muggles...

[Lumpy]

No it wont, because by then I'll be editing 12K video and have a render farm of 12 512 core Intel i97 processors running at 60ghz.
And windows will STILL be slow on it.

massive $230 million profits

[Swampash]

Or, put another way, the amount of profit Apple generates every two and a half days.

A naming mistake.

[MMC Monster]

Google really screwed up with the naming of their devices.

For now, people will remember the differences between the Nexus 4 and 7. A year from now, I doubt it.

Better naming would be:
Nexus Phone 2
Nexus Pad 3
Nexus Sound 1

Or sync the numbers and say 'screw it' to the slashdotters who complain about skipping numbers:
Nexus Phone 3
Nexus Pad 3
Nexus Sound 3

Re:A naming mistake.

[tuppe666]

Google really screwed up with the naming of their devices.

For now, people will remember the differences between the Nexus 4 and 7. A year from now, I doubt it.

Better naming would be:
Nexus Phone 2
Nexus Pad 3
Nexus Sound 1

Or sync the numbers and say 'screw it' to the slashdotters who complain about skipping numbers:
Nexus Phone 3
Nexus Pad 3
Nexus Sound 3

I think you have missed the "winds of change". The buzzword was "platforms" now its "ecosystems". Apple have been playing the ecosystem card for a long time..."just works" means only with other Apple products. Desperate Microsoft use the word all the time today...and don't really have one yet. Google do..its android, the Nexus *brand* just shows they have a device at every "screen size" [Yeah they say that too].

Re:A naming mistake.

[Tough Love]

Google really screwed up with the naming of their devices.

Oh no way. I think my living room really needs a Nexus 80.

Typical journalist prophecy stuff.

[nitehawk214]

People are aware that if they make outrageous claims that they will be hailed as a genius if they succeed, and the claims will be forgotten if they are wrong. At worst the claim will show up in some "Look at those silly guys from 50 years ago..." columns.

Forgetting of course the shared memory of the Internet. In 10 years or 1 year or next week we can trot out their giant article on the "End of the PC", and point and laugh. Now, lots of people hooking on to the same absurd claim will not make it true, and will make them all look like morons.

Here is my counterclaim. In 50 years tablets will not kill PCs, and PCs will not kill tables. Instead nobody from today will recognize the average computing device.

Nokia

[Anonymous Coward]

Too bad Nokia didn't get on board with Android. I wouldn't be surprised to see the same results.

"Collapse"

[Anonymous Coward]

"The collapse of the PC market"

Oh, so dramatic...

There was no collapse.

ulrabook

[nten]

The windows 8 arm tablets will not let you disable secure boot, so you unless you pay to get a bootloader signed you are stuck with windows 8. Which may or may not be a problem, but you are tied to their app store on the arm tablet. You can get an ultra book for about $400 more that has way more power, is only 3" bigger, and windows 8 x86 allows you to disable secure boot and install another OS if you want. Some of the acer ultrabooks even have touchscreens. Yes $400 is a lot, but as you pointed out computers aren't getting outdated as fast as they once did, so hopefully that $400 can get amortized over 5-10 years. Also, an arm chip will not be bored stiff with modern laptop processing, it will be choking. I really don't get the tablet thing except as a portable netflix viewer. If I'm doing mail or browsing I want to touch-type, and if I'm carrying a keyboard with my tablet, I'd rather have brought my laptop instead.

Re:ulrabook

[bfandreas]

I'm in the fortuitous position that I don't have to care about price that much. But I do care about lock-in. That's one reason why I waill wait before I get a Windows 8 tablet. Not Windows RT. This imho is a solution looking for a problem.
To me the sweet thing about those full Windows 8 tablets is that there is absolutely no reason to bring a laptop because they basically have the same specs plus the touch screen and the form factor.

Re:economics 201

[Anonymous Coward]

Build stuff people want to buy, make a profit

Build stuff people want to buy, dominate the market, acieve a monopoly, make a way more profit

Back in 1983 Apple was on economics 201 and lost the market to IBM. They went back to economics 101 with the help of FreeBSD and avoided a bankruptcy. They implemented economics 201 with the iPhone and created a market which they are loosing to economics 101. Way more profit is a relative term since you have nothing to compare it to. I would venture that if the iPhone was following economics 101 a little more the iPhone would still be leading Android. There is no way that walled garden can meet the needs of everyone....

Try the keyboard and screen first

[tepples]

Thus, Linux PCs, notebooks, netbooks etc. are better be bought online (with few exceptions).

If retail is the only showroom, and retail is in turmoil, then how do you recommend that a prospective customer try the keyboard and screen of a Linux laptop before buying it?

Re:Try the keyboard and screen first

[Anonymous Coward]

>>> Thus, Linux PCs, notebooks, netbooks etc. are better be bought online (with few exceptions).

> If retail is the only showroom, and retail is in turmoil, then how do you recommend that a prospective customer try the keyboard and screen of a Linux laptop before buying it?

My worries are the same as yours, and it's no easy quandary. My last two purchases were done physically, a PC in late 2009 and a notebook (this year), both with Linux. I have no solution for you other than rely on "unbiased" reviews, which are not always available -- specially for that great deal with lots of RAM and an i7 last gen processor. Sometimes there's a version with W7 which is more easily found in specialized stores (at a non-inviting price, of course). One can extrapolate the Linux version quality from the equivalent Windows one -- but do buy the Linux version, because someone already warned about construction differences even if models are the same, as amazing as that may sound!

A poor consolation is that nowadays physical stores are abandoned (at least the bigger ones), you just get to see the same video on all monitors beside PCs (usually selling some kind of support service) or notebooks with big warnings of how "this computer may be at risk, because your antivirus expired". So, even for Windows machines you can forget the screen and only press some keys to get a feel of the keyboard... pretty lame.

Interestingly enough, even you're after a phone or tablet you may get a better experience in mobile operators' stores, because they want to sell you service contracts. This is another big problem for the traditional PC industry.

Finally, specifically for the points you raised, keyboards and mouses are cheap these days and replacements can easily be bought; monitors are also cheaper, with TV-capable ones above 21 in becoming affordable... so you can buy a cheap desktop PC with Linux and focus mainly on processor / memory / disk speed / video GPU / usb 3.0 or e-sata issues.

For the processor, I have used the Passmark benchmark to tell what processors are fast and which are slow ones with impressive names... ;-) This is the main point of disappointment, buying a normal-priced PC only to see it won't give great speed... i.e., you have beed had.

Why people still use DVD

[tepples]

A "DVD player" is a player for optical discs on which standard-definition copies of feature films and television series were distributed to the public between about 1997 and 2007. Even after 2007, DVD remains in use as a budget alternative to Blu-ray Disc, especially for people who don't live in an area with high-speed cable or fiber Internet, for people living in countries without a viable counterpart to the Netflix streaming service available in the United States, and for people who want to watch a movie between the DVD release and when it becomes available for Netflix streaming.

Re:Why people still use DVD

[Dusty101]

Or whom, y'know, had their cable & internet service taken out by a falling tree...

Spartakus and the Sun Beneath the Sea

[tepples]

So when will the animated TV series Spartakus and the Sun Beneath the Sea be released on DVD in North America? It's animated, but not made in the Far East so therefore not anime.

Reaching the SSH server from a vehicle

[tepples]

ssh (lots of good clients, some even let you sync session output to dropbox for records)

But then you have to pay for a data plan so that you can reach the SSH server. My use case (which I admit is probably an edge case) involves coding on the bus: I'll experiment with an algorithm or such in a free half hour while riding the bus to or from work. The buses in Fort Wayne, Indiana, don't have Wi-Fi access points, and I'm not yet ready to pay extra to upgrade my cell phone and plan to a cell phone and plan that support tethering. As for your 5+ hour flight, how much would you be willing to pay for Internet access during the flight so that you can reach the SSH server? That's why I carry a netbook with a 6 hour battery: so that I can run programs locally.

There's really not a whole lot one can't do on a tablet now outside of specialty functions

Everybody will have a different specialty function, and many of these specialty functions will be banned by Apple.

Re:Reaching the SSH server from a vehicle

[needsomemoola]

If you use cellular in any capacity you have to pay for a data plan. That's one strength of a lot of tablets is that there is a cellular radio built in for you. Most laptops don't have this feature. To me that sounds like a plus for tablets since you can use Wifi and/or cellular (even LTE now, faster than most hotspots).

Everyone does have special cases, but the decision to get a tablet should be decided based on if it meets your needs. As an IT person I have not run into any show-stopping roadblocks. The only annoyance for me (and this is just iPad) is not being able to scan wireless networks with the built in radios. You need to use spectrum analyzer accessory for that.

Re:Reaching the SSH server from a vehicle

[tepples]

If you use cellular in any capacity you have to pay for a data plan.

I pay $60 per year for prepaid voice service from Virgin Mobile because I use a flip phone only to make the occasional urgent call to arrange a ride.

Nexus 7 and Android Convertibles Drive Massive Asus Profit

That's one strength of a lot of tablets is that there is a cellular radio built in for you. Most laptops don't have this feature.

Nor does the Nexus 7.

the decision to get a tablet should be decided based on if it meets your needs

I own a Nexus 7, but it's not what I carry on bus trips because I have decided that it happens not to meet my needs.

Re:Reaching the SSH server from a vehicle

[needsomemoola]

Sorry. I meant using cellular data require a cellular data plan ($). I was comparing to using a laptop. Even those with a CDMA or GSM radio don't give you free data.

I was surprised the 7 doesn't ship with a cellular radio, but I suppose the point is cost so it can compete, and that extra hardware drives production cost up. I looked at the Nexus 7 in person for the first time today. It's quite nice and zippy.

For me my iPad has met all my requirements for travel. It's a subjective decision for sure.

Re:Reaching the SSH server from a vehicle

[tepples]

I meant using cellular data require a cellular data plan ($).

Cellular data plans in the United States also tend to have a 5 GB per month limit. As I understand it, this means customers will likely end up in a lot of restaurants to do anything that involves watching video or otherwise sending large amounts of data to and from servers through the Internet. Or what am I missing?

Years' delay

[tepples]

I regularly do music and video editing on my 6-year-old laptop without hiccups. It also ran every single game right up until GTA4, at which point I had consoles to play newer games on anyway.

Relying on consoles for gaming works fine provided that 1. gamepads are good enough for your preferred genre (that is, not FPS or RTS), and 2. the games that you want to play are ported to consoles. If an indie game comes out for the PC, for example, it might be years before the game's developer becomes a big enough company to obtain a license to develop for consoles. But then a laptop that can handle standard-definition video editing can probably run indie games, even if at low settings.

Re:Years' delay

[bfandreas]

The current console generation is a joke for gaming and has always been. They lack the versatility of input devices that are traditional for PCs. Joysticks, HOTAS, racing wheels and gamepads have been always available for PCs but they weren't strictly necessary due to the sheer flexibility of keyboard and mouse. And there hasn't ever been such a huge mandatory bureaucratic overhead when trying to publish for PC. Spend thousands of dollars for a dev kit, an unlocked console AND so called QA from Microsoft, Sony and Nintendo? There has already been a case where an indie developer simply didn't publish a patch for an XBox Live Arcade game due to the bill MS would send them and the WEEKS they spend on "QA". Compare that to BBS, FTP, Web, Steam, Humble Bundle and GOG. The Ouya has potential because it does away with that crap.

Take a look at what consoles did to the FPS genre. Aim assist due to THE F*CKING WRONG INPUT DEVICE, handholding/non-explorable terrain due to memory limitations and technology that's basically stuck in the stone ages. I can't blame the jingoistic content of the Mediocre Warfare Battle Furry series on the technology but I will do so nonetheless. Regenerating health because we can't hide a healt pack behind a pillar because RETURN TO COMBAT ZONE! It is a sad day indeed when my Android tablet that wasn't built for it is capable of producing visuals that are on par with a PS2 AND send a 3D signal over HDMI to my 3D monitor. Within a year they will be on par with a PS3. And don't get me started on half-assed PC ports that still get sold at 60$ a pop. Skyrim sticks out like a sore thumb in that respect and that doesn't even run on PS3.

That being said, I do enjoy playing XCOM with a gamepad. It can be a bit fiddly at times but those controls are very well done.

I hereby declare Nov 1st national Burn Your Console Day. Stop buying that crap.

Newsflash: Linux, Mac not PCs, apparently

[Anonymous Coward]

...a laptop for example is essentially the same as a tablet except that a laptop can run the software businesses have spent the last 30 years developing, and the tablet can't

ftfy

A Linux box can't run "the [proprietary Win32-x86] software businesses have spent the last 30 years developing" either. Neither can a Mac. Are these not PCs? Does it take a Windows partition to make it a PC?

Nexus 7 has no HDMI out

[tepples]

It wasn't until Jelly Bean [...] that Google finally figured out how to make a decent tablet UI

Jelly Bean was first available on the Nexus 7.

If Android had a decent desktop UI, then wouldn't it be more convenient for most people to use their phones as a convergant device, using it as a phone on the road, and docking it with a monitor, pointing device, and keyboard when they're somewhere where portability isn't a requirement?

I can see docking a Nexus 7, the flagship device introducing what you call the first decent Android tablet UI, with a Bluetooth keyboard. But ASUS and Google left a monitor output off the Nexus 7, and what sort of pointing device would you recommend using?

Re:Nexus 7 has no HDMI out

[squiggleslash]

I don't understand what you're asking or why you're asking it. Sorry. Perhaps we're talking at cross purposes?

Re:Nexus 7 has no HDMI out

[Anonymous Coward]

A mouse works perfectly well with the Nexus 7, either USB or Bluetooth, aside from touchpads and trackballs what else would you use as a pointing device.

Re:Nexus 7 has no HDMI out

[tepples]

I don't understand what you're asking or why you're asking it.

Please allow me to rephrase; hopefully this will be clearer to you. You claimed that Android 4.1 (Jelly Bean) was the first Android tablet operating system to get the user interface right. You further claimed that people would dock their Android tablets to an external monitor. But the first device to come with Android 4.1, the Nexus 7 by ASUS, doesn't have any way to dock to an external monitor that I can see. So how exactly would people go about "docking it with a monitor, pointing device, and keyboard when they're somewhere where portability isn't a requirement"?

Re:Cheap Real Jordans

[sometext]

This is terrible ad targeting.

Closedness

[tepples]

In 50 years, will it be practical for individuals to learn to develop software for "the average computing device" without moving to another state and working for an established company that already has a license to develop for "the average computing device"? Having to move is already the reality for learning to develop games for game consoles.

Re:economics 201

[narcc]

There's the lesson: Open always wins over closed.

The more you tighten your grip, the more users will slip through your fingers...

Best of luck

[WaffleMonster]

If crappy closed mobile platforms vs todays open desktop environments are really the future then we are all doomed.

Massive profits? Huh?

[Anonymous Coward]

$230 million is not massive. It's meager. It's less than Apple makes every couple of days. This amount of profit is barely indicative of being above water. Surely this headline was bought and paid for by a PR company. A profit so small means that Asus could be in trouble as a going concern. A profit so small is a big red flag.

Re:economics 201

[Tough Love]

The more you tighten your grip, the more users will slip through your fingers...

Isn't it amazing just how predictive B movie screenwriting tends to be?

Different genres

[tepples]

Joysticks, HOTAS, racing wheels and gamepads have been always available for PCs but they weren't strictly necessary due to the sheer flexibility of keyboard and mouse.

How many keyboards and mice has a single PC traditionally supported at the same time?

And there hasn't ever been such a huge mandatory bureaucratic overhead when trying to publish for PC. Spend thousands of dollars for a dev kit, an unlocked console AND so called QA from Microsoft, Sony and Nintendo?

I'm told by at least one persistent member of Slashdot that there are certain genres that just don't work on a PC, such as fighting games (like Mortal Kombat series and Super Smash Bros. series), casual party games (like Mario Party series), and cooperative platformers (like New Super Mario Bros. Wii). This difference in genre preferences between console and PC gamers pushes developers to go through the multi-year process of paying their alleged dues just so that they can get their product out to a demographic that wants it.

The Ouya has potential because it does away with that crap.

If it ever comes out. Whatever happened to Pandora and the nD?

Aim assist due to THE F*CKING WRONG INPUT DEVICE

In the Nintendo 64 era, would you rather have tried to play a game like GoldenEye 007 with four mice and four keyboards and one TV?

Skyrim sticks out like a sore thumb in that respect and that doesn't even run on PS3.

I thought Skyrim was ported to PS3. At least I've been using it as an example of the fact that the Ivy Bridge IGP can finally run games comparable to the current console generation.