Parts of India are more developed than parts of US. Bangalore is way more developed than California's Central Valley to take an example. You will meet all kinds of people in the H1 population. Some may be the first generation out of villages and first generation to attend college. Others might have lived in cities for 20 generation+ (which no American can claim as no American city is older than 500 years). India's problem is not that people dont know whats the right way to do something. Its just that there are not enough resources to do it the right way and the half solutions make the problems worse. The influx of dollars fom the outsourcing industry is providing the resources and things are improving.
What can be easily offshored has been done. But their really hasnt been a push to change business models as Onsite H1s have provided the buffer. If H1s are gone then the business will have to change their way of functioning and work on better specs so that the entire work can be sent offshore. If their were enough citizens to do the work H1s would not be hired. There just arent that many citizens willing to do the work at the price the jocks are willing to pay the nerds and no the jocks are not going to pay nerds more than themselves (which is what sacrificing family time to coordinate offshore deserves). They would tolerate slower IT as long as they dont have to pay nerds more than themselves. And the companies are mostly run by jocks.
I am not talking about IT jobs. I am talking about the real estate broker who sells them a house, the Uber driver who drives them to concerts, the musician who performs in the concert and a 100 other jobs all getting part of their business from the H1B worker spending to live in the US. If you force the work offshore all this spending will be generating jobs in India.
Thats hilarious. What was your experience? Packing groceries at Walmart. Newsflash Engineering education is in English in India. More people speak English in India than there are people in the US. Actually if you do look at it that way Indian accent is the Standard English (most spoken) and American English is a dialect eh.
Breaking News : Trump announces a Science Ban. No one to be allowed entrance the US of A if they believe in Evolution or Global Warming. You ask how will they test for it? Same way they will test an Iraqi who says he's a CHRISTIAN Iraqi and not a MUSLIM Iraqi. The CBP will know. They have powers.....
The guy on an H1 may not know the exact job but he will spend hours of his own time learning the job because he has the motivation of deportation . He will sacrifice personal time, family time even skip going to the doctor to come up to speed. You will not get the same dedication from a Citizen who can always go get a job at a better workplace. Want a level playing field? Banning H1Bs will not do it as the work will just go offshore. THe only way to level the playing field is to give Greencards to every H1B. Do it enmasse in one go. Watch the consulting companies squirm.
Low to mid skill as compared to what? Compared to PhDs sure but compared to the majority of US jobs - drivers , checkout clerks and waiters these are very highly skilled jobs. And it takes a certain amount of education which unfortunately most US k-12 schools do not provide and the defeicit cannot be covered up in college for everyone. Get out of your Bubble. There are 120 million jobs in the US. Out of those only 2 million are in IT (maybe 500K of those are visas). And many of those 120 million depend on the spending of the 500K visa folks. Every H1 job here in the US generate 2-3 jobs in the local economy. And no kicking out the H1s will not mean the jobs will be filled by American citizens- they will go offshore along with the 2-3 unskilled jobs generated.
But But The Constitution has slavery built into it. Dont over idolize the Constitution. It was the best effort of White middle class landowners of an Agrarian Economy. It was ahead of its times but doesnt mean it covered every issue we face in modern life. A Constitution is meant to change as society changes. Thats what Constitutional amendments are for.
Nurenberg has it as settled law. Just following orders is not an excuse. Illegal order have to be disobeyed (like the acting Attorney General did) or you are equally guilty.
Why would you need to suspend it when it self suspends when there is not enough demand in the economy. Are you a communist central planner? This isnt the Soviet Union
This guy works on image analysis for telescopes in other words spy satellites which just happen to be large telescopes pointed downwards. Dont worry NASA will get its own back. Just who do you think launches the spy satellites? Are you telling me NASA has not put backdoors into the satellites used by DHS and the cops. This CBP agent may suddenly get pulled over because his license number showed up as wanted for kiddie porn. God help him if he happens to be a black male during that traffic stop.
If someone offshore knows how to do the job why not send the employee offshore for 3-6 month training assignment? Have an agreement that either he/she works for you 1 year after training completed or refunds the cost of training.
Obviously they are getting better outcomes else why are they doing it? I believe the opinion of management running multi billion companies counts more than yours on what defines a good outcome
Not the same thing. Green card applicants on H1B have not broken the law by coming in illegally and hoping for an amnesty. Do not conflate legal and illegal immigration.
The problem with the lottery is that companies cant wait months for critical positions. A lottery in April where the person becomes eligible in October means that the only people who can go for H1 are the consulting companies filing speculatively with the assumption they will have a job for the person in October.
A solution would be a monthly lottery. Application filed in the first week of every month would need to be processes and cleared by the end of the month (yes I know INS folks will actually have to work for their living). Any company can wait a month. This would take the outsourcing companies out of the mix.
Yeah but the problem is the companies are able to do the exploitation because they hold the key to immigration. Take immigration out of the hands of companies. Put in a point based immigration system and people will not stand the exploitation and ask for better working conditions (wages are already at par as per law. Its the working conditions where the exploitation happens. Unpaid Night and weekend work. Abusive bosses. Racist colleagues).
H1B set 60K as a floor because not all H1s work in California. Those who work in the midwest or Southeast can lead a good life on 60K. The solution would be to have separate floors for each state.Its not complicated the H1 process already has prevailing wages for every Metropolitan Statistical Area. The 60K applies for the exemption to replacing na American worker. So just make it that the exemption applies (companies want the exemption as one of the reasons for going for H1 instead of Green Card is it can be used to replace American workers unlike a Green Card) if the salary offered is 150% of the prevailing wage. In the Silicon valley the prevailing wage would be around 80-90K so the exemption would apply at 120-135K while for somewhere like Ohio where prevailing wage may be 40K the exemption would apply at 60K. This would mean a lot of IT work would be moved to centers in the midwest. Hence solving California's housing crises, unemployment in the midwest as well as still keeping the H1 as a safety vale for when companies simply cant wait for a long term solution. Also if all H1s in the valley need to be paid 120-135K the companies would much rather hire H1s as employees rather than go through consulting firms. The exploitation really happens at outsourcing firms as the client employees you work with can really treat you like shit and not have consequences as its the outsourcing firms headache to provide a replacement if you quit. If H1 employees start to quit your boss will have a conversation with you which you wont like so you will improve your behavior (spoilt through years of working with contractors)
You know what will happen if 135K is made the minimum salary? People with no computer skills will sign up for the job and then outsource it at a personal level to offshore counterparts. Pay the offshore guy 30K and you can still lead a good life for 100K. As long as you are willing to take a few phone calls after dinner you are set
Rents would still go up if there were Americans working at IT jobs. Americans would not be paid less than H1s so how does that solve homelessness unless you are claiming the homeless are computer programmers (highly doubt that). Its a global world America has gained much more than it has lost from globalization. Without globalization a TV would cost 10000 dollars and people would buy one in their lives and pay a 20 year loan to afford it. Never underestimate the benefit of cheap goods to your lifestyle
The Silicon valley companies pay high salaries to their R&D staff. They do not pay high salaries to IT staff. They use a shitload of contractors from big outsourcing firms to run their IT most on H1. They oppose H1 reform because while they would gain on the R&D front the disruption on the IT front is an unknown. It could actually disrupt their companies enough for some of them to go out of business. Google and Apple both use outsourced IT. Imagine a world without Google and iPhones.
The current mode of outsourcing is companies having their IT staff manage onsite consultants who work with offshore resources. Take away H1Bs and the model will change with no more onsite IT staff. Not just the H1B contractors but also the employees would have to go and the work would now be on amanaged services basis where the entire department is offshore. This is difficult to pull off but once done it means those jobs are never coming back. In the current model as India becomes more expensive the jobs can come back to the US as the IT management structure has been retained. Its how in the car industry when the Union prevented supplementing with non Union workers the entire factory went to non union states.
Slashdot Mirror
Parts of India are more developed than parts of US. Bangalore is way more developed than California's Central Valley to take an example. You will meet all kinds of people in the H1 population. Some may be the first generation out of villages and first generation to attend college. Others might have lived in cities for 20 generation+ (which no American can claim as no American city is older than 500 years). India's problem is not that people dont know whats the right way to do something. Its just that there are not enough resources to do it the right way and the half solutions make the problems worse. The influx of dollars fom the outsourcing industry is providing the resources and things are improving.
What can be easily offshored has been done. But their really hasnt been a push to change business models as Onsite H1s have provided the buffer. If H1s are gone then the business will have to change their way of functioning and work on better specs so that the entire work can be sent offshore. If their were enough citizens to do the work H1s would not be hired. There just arent that many citizens willing to do the work at the price the jocks are willing to pay the nerds and no the jocks are not going to pay nerds more than themselves (which is what sacrificing family time to coordinate offshore deserves). They would tolerate slower IT as long as they dont have to pay nerds more than themselves. And the companies are mostly run by jocks.
I am not talking about IT jobs. I am talking about the real estate broker who sells them a house, the Uber driver who drives them to concerts, the musician who performs in the concert and a 100 other jobs all getting part of their business from the H1B worker spending to live in the US. If you force the work offshore all this spending will be generating jobs in India.
Thats hilarious. What was your experience? Packing groceries at Walmart. Newsflash Engineering education is in English in India. More people speak English in India than there are people in the US. Actually if you do look at it that way Indian accent is the Standard English (most spoken) and American English is a dialect eh.
Breaking News : Trump announces a Science Ban. No one to be allowed entrance the US of A if they believe in Evolution or Global Warming. .....
You ask how will they test for it?
Same way they will test an Iraqi who says he's a CHRISTIAN Iraqi and not a MUSLIM Iraqi.
The CBP will know. They have powers
Wouldn't these Engineers qualify as equity stakeholders given most of their compensation was in Google stock?
The guy on an H1 may not know the exact job but he will spend hours of his own time learning the job because he has the motivation of deportation . He will sacrifice personal time, family time even skip going to the doctor to come up to speed. You will not get the same dedication from a Citizen who can always go get a job at a better workplace. Want a level playing field? Banning H1Bs will not do it as the work will just go offshore. THe only way to level the playing field is to give Greencards to every H1B. Do it enmasse in one go. Watch the consulting companies squirm.
Low to mid skill as compared to what? Compared to PhDs sure but compared to the majority of US jobs - drivers , checkout clerks and waiters these are very highly skilled jobs. And it takes a certain amount of education which unfortunately most US k-12 schools do not provide and the defeicit cannot be covered up in college for everyone. Get out of your Bubble. There are 120 million jobs in the US. Out of those only 2 million are in IT (maybe 500K of those are visas). And many of those 120 million depend on the spending of the 500K visa folks. Every H1 job here in the US generate 2-3 jobs in the local economy. And no kicking out the H1s will not mean the jobs will be filled by American citizens- they will go offshore along with the 2-3 unskilled jobs generated.
But But The Constitution has slavery built into it. Dont over idolize the Constitution. It was the best effort of White middle class landowners of an Agrarian Economy. It was ahead of its times but doesnt mean it covered every issue we face in modern life. A Constitution is meant to change as society changes. Thats what Constitutional amendments are for.
Nurenberg has it as settled law. Just following orders is not an excuse. Illegal order have to be disobeyed (like the acting Attorney General did) or you are equally guilty.
Why would you need to suspend it when it self suspends when there is not enough demand in the economy. Are you a communist central planner? This isnt the Soviet Union
This guy works on image analysis for telescopes in other words spy satellites which just happen to be large telescopes pointed downwards. Dont worry NASA will get its own back. Just who do you think launches the spy satellites? Are you telling me NASA has not put backdoors into the satellites used by DHS and the cops. This CBP agent may suddenly get pulled over because his license number showed up as wanted for kiddie porn. God help him if he happens to be a black male during that traffic stop.
Add 70s hyperinflation and measure in 2017 dollars and they probably were 10000 dollars. A dollar in 1970 is worth more than 10 dollars now
And by him I mean the CBP officer guilty of breach of national security.
If someone offshore knows how to do the job why not send the employee offshore for 3-6 month training assignment? Have an agreement that either he/she works for you 1 year after training completed or refunds the cost of training.
Obviously they are getting better outcomes else why are they doing it? I believe the opinion of management running multi billion companies counts more than yours on what defines a good outcome
During the recession the H1 quota never got filled. It shows that the free market works
Not the same thing. Green card applicants on H1B have not broken the law by coming in illegally and hoping for an amnesty. Do not conflate legal and illegal immigration.
The problem with the lottery is that companies cant wait months for critical positions. A lottery in April where the person becomes eligible in October means that the only people who can go for H1 are the consulting companies filing speculatively with the assumption they will have a job for the person in October.
A solution would be a monthly lottery. Application filed in the first week of every month would need to be processes and cleared by the end of the month (yes I know INS folks will actually have to work for their living). Any company can wait a month. This would take the outsourcing companies out of the mix.
Yeah but the problem is the companies are able to do the exploitation because they hold the key to immigration. Take immigration out of the hands of companies. Put in a point based immigration system and people will not stand the exploitation and ask for better working conditions (wages are already at par as per law. Its the working conditions where the exploitation happens. Unpaid Night and weekend work. Abusive bosses. Racist colleagues).
H1B set 60K as a floor because not all H1s work in California. Those who work in the midwest or Southeast can lead a good life on 60K. The solution would be to have separate floors for each state .Its not complicated the H1 process already has prevailing wages for every Metropolitan Statistical Area. The 60K applies for the exemption to replacing na American worker. So just make it that the exemption applies (companies want the exemption as one of the reasons for going for H1 instead of Green Card is it can be used to replace American workers unlike a Green Card) if the salary offered is 150% of the prevailing wage. In the Silicon valley the prevailing wage would be around 80-90K so the exemption would apply at 120-135K while for somewhere like Ohio where prevailing wage may be 40K the exemption would apply at 60K.
This would mean a lot of IT work would be moved to centers in the midwest. Hence solving California's housing crises, unemployment in the midwest as well as still keeping the H1 as a safety vale for when companies simply cant wait for a long term solution. Also if all H1s in the valley need to be paid 120-135K the companies would much rather hire H1s as employees rather than go through consulting firms. The exploitation really happens at outsourcing firms as the client employees you work with can really treat you like shit and not have consequences as its the outsourcing firms headache to provide a replacement if you quit. If H1 employees start to quit your boss will have a conversation with you which you wont like so you will improve your behavior (spoilt through years of working with contractors)
You know what will happen if 135K is made the minimum salary? People with no computer skills will sign up for the job and then outsource it at a personal level to offshore counterparts. Pay the offshore guy 30K and you can still lead a good life for 100K. As long as you are willing to take a few phone calls after dinner you are set
Rents would still go up if there were Americans working at IT jobs. Americans would not be paid less than H1s so how does that solve homelessness unless you are claiming the homeless are computer programmers (highly doubt that). Its a global world America has gained much more than it has lost from globalization. Without globalization a TV would cost 10000 dollars and people would buy one in their lives and pay a 20 year loan to afford it. Never underestimate the benefit of cheap goods to your lifestyle
The Silicon valley companies pay high salaries to their R&D staff. They do not pay high salaries to IT staff. They use a shitload of contractors from big outsourcing firms to run their IT most on H1. They oppose H1 reform because while they would gain on the R&D front the disruption on the IT front is an unknown. It could actually disrupt their companies enough for some of them to go out of business. Google and Apple both use outsourced IT. Imagine a world without Google and iPhones.
The current mode of outsourcing is companies having their IT staff manage onsite consultants who work with offshore resources. Take away H1Bs and the model will change with no more onsite IT staff. Not just the H1B contractors but also the employees would have to go and the work would now be on amanaged services basis where the entire department is offshore. This is difficult to pull off but once done it means those jobs are never coming back. In the current model as India becomes more expensive the jobs can come back to the US as the IT management structure has been retained. Its how in the car industry when the Union prevented supplementing with non Union workers the entire factory went to non union states.