I think it would be more like saying that having the police or fire dept respond to your call is free, or that trash pickup is free. (In other words, what the taxes pay for instead of the taxes themselves, in the same way that I was referring to what my fees pay for instead of the fees themselves.)
I've given this further thought, and we're both partially right. Your argument, when taken to the logical conclusion, would indicate that taxes themselves are free. However, the application to police or fire dept. is more apt, as you pointed out, as it's more parallel.:)
I would totally agree that things that are rolled into one payment system which is not very transparent (e.g. taxes, tuition & fees) tends to get perceived as free (for instance, in my small town, even fire truck purchases and police hires get scrutiny, so they're definitely not perceived as free!). However, the majority of the citizens and students do not perceive where the costs come from, and hence much complacency as well as the perception that Microsoft has given the school such a great deal--they can get Windows XP Pro for just $5 at the bookstore!! (This is further bolstered by innacurate statements from the tour guides at the university, as well as being ignorant of the fact that $15-70 (range of prices I've heard) per semester goes straight into Microsoft's pocket, as well as the fact that the Windows licenses are upgrade licenses!)
Unfortunately, it is the complacency that causes tuition and fees to increase faster than inflation for the last decade or more.
at the same time I can't avoid paying those except by dropping out.
Sure, but that doesn't mean you're not paying for it.
So between the choices "go here and not download it" and "go here and download it" there is no difference in cost, so I think I'm justified in calling it free.
I humbly disagree with your assessment. By your same argument, taxes are free because you have little to no choice in paying them. I have met very very few people who think their taxes are free.
Building a package is almost exactly not what I mean by easy installation
I never claimed that it was. Building a package from source by yourself is non-trivial for the casual user. This is true on Linux, *BSD, MacOS, and Windows.
he fact that software authors so rarely provide packages on their websites suggests that they don't feel it's a trivial amount of work either.
Then they should provide an installer, like the rest of the world--if they don't want to take advantage of the distribution system. This is true of just about any proprietary piece of software.
I don't think I've ever seen a Windows program that didn't run within a couple of mouse clicks.
I've not seen a Linux installer that didn't run within a couple of mouse clicks--provided the developer was using an installer. I would susggest that the same thing is true of Windows, too, but your Windows experience is limited to those pieces of software that have a point-n-click installer, while your Linux experience does not. Just because you can build from source does not mean that you must.
That's all very well if I want a package that's in the repository, but if I want one that isn't ? Or a version that's newer than the one in my distribution ?
Then you do the same thing that you do on Mac or Windows. You download the package and build the package yourself. Often, there will be a package you can install on your system, but this need not be the case. Unless you're talking about proprietary software like Photoshop or something, in which case you do the same thing as in Windows--you run the installer. This is what InstallShield or Autopackage are for.
I say that governments and the people can demand the standards and APIs to be open, and then competition will naturally follow.
This will allow technical competition, but not economic nor political, as any competitors might have the same APIs (good luck verifying that, though), but will face huge hurdles to overcome because of bundling deals, discounts on Windows if they sell only Office, etc, not to mention advertising and buying politicians, which Microsoft can afford much more than anyone else.
Adobe reserves that right to sue anyone that uses PDF.
No, just like Microsoft, they have a patent covenant not to sue, provided you follow the spec.
They used legal threats to force Microsoft to remove PDF support from Office 2007
Well, that was certainly Microsoft's position, as reported in various news articles. Adobe's take on it is, of course, slightly different. They claim
Adobe's concern is that Microsoft will fragment and possibly degrade existing and established standards, including PDF, while using its monopoly power to introduce Microsoft-controlled alternatives - such as XPS. The long-term impact of this kind of behavior is that consumers are ultimately left with fewer choices.
And that was wrt the current ISO PDF standard (PDF 1.4 I think), so simply being an ISO standard doesn't mean that Adobe won't sue anyone that uses it at their whim, for whatever reason they see fit.
You see, this is exactly the same problem with Microsoft.
S has covenant not to sue anyone that uses XPS (covenant not to sue is standard MS practice for the standards they release to ISO, ECMA, etc).
for regular windows users its hard to come to terms with installing drivers using command line.
Good news, then. You don't have to install anything with the command line.
windows is far superior in terms of installing stuff.
I humbly disagree. I find installing drivers much much easier under linux (namely, you don't have to; your hardware is pretty much supported out of the box or not at all). Installing software is easier too, unless it's not provided by your distribution. In that case, it's exactly the same as Windows, as you click on an installer to install the software, unless your software vendor is a jackass (I'm looking at you Mathworks and Wolfram). There is an InstallShield installer available, just like Windows. The autopackage installer seemed pretty nice too.
I plugged it in and it just worked. Oh wait, I'm running OS X.
Really?! OSX can recognize who your ISP is, figure out the cheapest number to dial, and automatically set it up to connect with your username and password? Truly, OSX has achieved sentience. I wonder when it'll start to feel the inevitable urge to kill all the humans....
Now, excuse me while I go and configure my new USB modem please...
Ah, you'll need to download the latest driver from the vendor's website. But make sure you have SP2 installed, because it's required. Once you've installed the drivers (FOR PETE'S SAKE DON'T PLUG IT IN YET!!!) you need to plug it in. Now you have to go to Control Panel....
Oh, you're using Linux? Then you should be set. Plug it in and use NetworkManager to dial out. Piece of cake.
If you install a volume license on these, Microsoft says you're a dirty pirate. Quoth Microsoft:
Volume Licensing programs: For organizations that use multiple copies of Microsoft software, Volume Licensing is a flexible and economical way to acquire from five to thousands of licenses for software. Volume Licensing agreements, including Academic Volume Licenses, do not offer the full license for Windows Client operating systems; Volume Licensing covers only Windows Client upgrades. The full operating system license must be acquired as FPP or pre-installed by an OEM or System Builder.
Emphasis mine. Correction to your post, then, in bold:
I happen to work at a university campus which has a licensing agreement with MS, so we're already paying twice for Windows.
They've been doing this for years. News would be if "No OS" and "Linux" options were available for every system, and even more so for notebooks and the "Home" section. As it currently seems, however, this is not news.
Fine by me. OTOH, sometimes it's not. So I'll buy from LinuxCertified, RCubed, System76, or others when I want things to Just Work, and I'll maybe buy a dell when I don't mind being a hardware-OS support engineer.
Volume Licensing programs: For organizations that use multiple copies of Microsoft software, Volume Licensing is a flexible and economical way to acquire from five to thousands of licenses for software. Volume Licensing agreements, including Academic Volume Licenses, do not offer the full license for Windows Client operating systems; Volume Licensing covers only Windows Client upgrades. The full operating system license must be acquired as FPP or pre-installed by an OEM or System Builder.
Note: It's important to understand that Volume License Agreements do not cover the full windows operating system; Volume Licensing provides for Windows OS upgrades only. Customers must first have a qualifying underlying operating system license before installing Volume License software on their computers.
Italics and bold mine this time. The first link also says "Published: April 23, 2002 | Updated: June 26, 2006" which doesn't help you establish a timeline much, but there you go.
These data points are corroborated by my experience at my university. Site-licensed Windows may only be installed on upgradable machines (OEM licenses, remember, stay with the machine; this is currently the source of a lost afternoon for me because a guest here wants Windows and not Linux and his box isn't licensed for Windows so I must swap hard drives around between a licensed and unlicensed machine), and the paperwork I signed when I got "my" copy of Windows XP stated that it was upgrade only as well.
Of course, you might have the leverage to wrestle Microsoft into a better deal, so YMMV. But this is what Microsoft says, not me.
he issue is if you use macros (more probably VBA), you are likely to have code invested in Office with no upgrade path to OO.
Fortunately for those poor shortsighted souls, you are incorrect.
Guess I misread "Word macros" as "word processor macros" in retrospect (Bad me! How many times do I have to tell me to not use "Word" as a generic?!). OTOH, grandparent wasn't very clear, as it seemed heavily to later imply lack of macro capability, namely
If all you need is a standard word processing program, spreadsheet, and presentation maker
How did this crap get modded "insightful"?! You can code macros in python, StarBASIC, BeanShell, and several others. Seriously, where did parent get this jewel of mis-information?
As much as some can hate Microsoft, this is good and others should follow.
Yep. Good thing Linux has been doing it for over a decade now. Nice to see Microsoft finally catching up. Now, if only they would get rid of the activation and Genuine (dis)Advantage crapola....
They don't have to support your zealous desire to never have to use closed-source or proprietary software.
Interestingly, my supposed "zelatous desires to never have to use closed-source or proprietary software" (interesting, then, that I have vmware, RealPlayer, Mathematica, Matlab, cxoffice, NWN, UT2004, and other software on my box!) have nothing to do with my argument at all.
Microsoft openly licenses the WMV format.
For certain values of "openly", certainly.
There are closed-source players for it available to Linux.
Where did Linux factor into the equation? Are there closed-source players for every OS and harware the citizenry runs and will run? If not, then your argument falls on its face.
The fact of the matter is that government documents should be readable by any citizen who wants to on whatever system they want to. This does not mean that the government must make sure the software exists to use their system on every OS/hardware combo ever to be in existance, but rather that there is nothing standing in the way of the citizenry to do so. Proprietary, patent-encumbered formats are an impediment to the citizenry being freely able to keep tabs on their government and participate fully in the democratic process. That is my argument.
Slashdot Mirror
I'm not surprised.
I mean, you expect a CompUSA to sell COMPuters, in the USA. Fry's? Apple?! WTH? They must be a fast food joint and a fruit stand or something!
Anyone have the iowaconsumercase.org documents mirrored? The site now requires authentication.
Really?! OSX can recognize who your ISP is, figure out the cheapest number to dial, and automatically set it up to connect with your username and password? Truly, OSX has achieved sentience. I wonder when it'll start to feel the inevitable urge to kill all the humans....
Ah, you'll need to download the latest driver from the vendor's website. But make sure you have SP2 installed, because it's required. Once you've installed the drivers (FOR PETE'S SAKE DON'T PLUG IT IN YET!!!) you need to plug it in. Now you have to go to Control Panel....
Oh, you're using Linux? Then you should be set. Plug it in and use NetworkManager to dial out. Piece of cake.
Emphasis mine. Correction to your post, then, in bold:
If you read my post, you'll note that I said it'd be news, not that it'd be a good idea.
They've been doing this for years. News would be if "No OS" and "Linux" options were available for every system, and even more so for notebooks and the "Home" section. As it currently seems, however, this is not news.
Fine by me. OTOH, sometimes it's not. So I'll buy from LinuxCertified, RCubed, System76, or others when I want things to Just Work, and I'll maybe buy a dell when I don't mind being a hardware-OS support engineer.
Ask, and ye shall receive:
Bold theirs; italics mine.
Furthermore, ye shall receive abundantly :
Italics and bold mine this time. The first link also says "Published: April 23, 2002 | Updated: June 26, 2006" which doesn't help you establish a timeline much, but there you go.
These data points are corroborated by my experience at my university. Site-licensed Windows may only be installed on upgradable machines (OEM licenses, remember, stay with the machine; this is currently the source of a lost afternoon for me because a guest here wants Windows and not Linux and his box isn't licensed for Windows so I must swap hard drives around between a licensed and unlicensed machine), and the paperwork I signed when I got "my" copy of Windows XP stated that it was upgrade only as well.
Of course, you might have the leverage to wrestle Microsoft into a better deal, so YMMV. But this is what Microsoft says, not me.
Also, according to Microsoft, all volume license agreements for Windows are upgrade only .
Fortunately for those poor shortsighted souls, you are incorrect.
Guess I misread "Word macros" as "word processor macros" in retrospect (Bad me! How many times do I have to tell me to not use "Word" as a generic?!). OTOH, grandparent wasn't very clear, as it seemed heavily to later imply lack of macro capability, namely
emphasis mine.
How did this crap get modded "insightful"?! You can code macros in python, StarBASIC, BeanShell, and several others. Seriously, where did parent get this jewel of mis-information?
Yep. Good thing Linux has been doing it for over a decade now. Nice to see Microsoft finally catching up. Now, if only they would get rid of the activation and Genuine (dis)Advantage crapola....
Wonder if I can get money back, since I'm not being given the same service others are being given.
I'd be grateful for lip service.
--A Linux User
now, if only we could get a MythTV (i.e. abiltiy to create a Free DVR) clause in there, we'd be golden....
Interestingly, my supposed "zelatous desires to never have to use closed-source or proprietary software" (interesting, then, that I have vmware, RealPlayer, Mathematica, Matlab, cxoffice, NWN, UT2004, and other software on my box!) have nothing to do with my argument at all.
For certain values of "openly", certainly.
Where did Linux factor into the equation? Are there closed-source players for every OS and harware the citizenry runs and will run? If not, then your argument falls on its face.
The fact of the matter is that government documents should be readable by any citizen who wants to on whatever system they want to. This does not mean that the government must make sure the software exists to use their system on every OS/hardware combo ever to be in existance, but rather that there is nothing standing in the way of the citizenry to do so. Proprietary, patent-encumbered formats are an impediment to the citizenry being freely able to keep tabs on their government and participate fully in the democratic process. That is my argument.