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Microsoft Settles Iowa Antitrust Case
ForestRangerBob writes "Comes v. Microsoft is over after Microsoft agreed to a settlement. The class action lawsuit alleged that Iowa consumers had been overcharged for Microsoft products for a decade owing to Microsoft's monopoly of the market. Predictably, the lawyers are about to get a big payday and 'the software giant will certainly be on the hook for millions of dollars, some of which may end up helping Iowa school kids. Average consumers will probably end up with a few bucks or a coupon for a free operating system upgrade, but the real winners will no doubt be the lawyers — the team prosecuting the case has already earned $60 million in legal fees from a 2004 case in Minnesota that charged Microsoft with similar offenses.'"
When I first tried to read the comments, I got /.'s familiar "nothing to see here..." message, which also describes the site that hosted the documents from the Iowa case. Going to the site hosting the documents now results in a login request.
The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
Average consumers will probably end up with a few bucks or a coupon for a free operating system upgrade
No, that's worth WAAAAAY too much. The consumers will get a free Microsft Vista (tm) mousepad.
Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
Well duh.. even the losing side's laywers get paid well.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Not...
Almost makes me wish I was a lawyer. Almost.
A coupon so Microsoft can increase sales of more copies of windows.
Boy, that sure showed Microsoft.
http://saveie6.com/
I have no grudge against most legal professionals, but what a huge waste of time and money. Rules should be enforced to prevent wrong doing rather than punishing for it. MS throwing a huge amount of money into a settlement does very little to help anyone and does no more to rectify a wrong (prehaps less) than jailing a murderer.
with Vista Ultimate pegged at 399.99. talk about overcharging.
Enjoy Every Sandwich
To be fair, the lawyers should have to take their cut in coupons for Microsoft products, just like everyone else will.
âoeAny society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.
NAH! That's objective reporting at it's best. NO bias at ALL!
Isn't this always the case? I hate these lawsuits because the rich fat-cat lawyers make out and the real people that deserve something get like $10. No sh*t M$ is settling. They have to pay millions of dollars for thousands of dollars in product just because the lawyers litigated the case at 500 per hour. It just sucks, all the people involved as plaintiffs that essentially allow those blood suckers to make millions should get some sort of profit sharing, not just their $10 cut. And don't bitch about the actual cost of doing the litigation, because that is BS and you know it!
No, it's chocolate!
The graphic clearly says "gooie" with the strawberry and chocolate being the "i"
Now, I can finally get a google No-Prize.
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.
Class action lawsuits are one of the most mis-used legal tactics in the country. Look at ANY class action lawsuit against ANY company. The 'remedy' afforded to consumers is on the same level as a few bucks in rebates: Most people don't bother with jumping through the hoops (and be sure and include the SKU from the inner flap of the outer box you just threw away and a certified copy of your birth certificate) and the companies know this. They don't amount to anything anyway. It's just an accountng trick. But the lawyers, oh, my goodness. Millions of dollars to the law firms for "all their hard work." What a crock. The kids of Iowa will see nothing tangible. /rant
How about a moderation of -1 pedantic.
Wow, I never knew you could sue people if for overcharging. This is great. Now I am going to go sue that burger place i just ate at for charging me $10 for a burger, when it obviously should have cost six dollars (according to Carl's Jr.)
And for some reason, I thought we won the cold war...
like always microsoft buys it's rights to do whatever they want...
thats fascism (read the definition of fascism before bashing me)
The MAFIAA is a bunch of mindless jerks who will be the first up against the wall when the revolution comes
Demanding $60 million from Microsoft is like Dr. Evil demanding ONE MILLION DOLLARS from the World's Leaders today. Bill Gates could probably find that much money just by scrounging around in the various couches in his mansion. That provides no incentive for the company to change its behavior. No... if you want them to take notice you need to ding them for THIRTY THREE BILLION DOLLARS! Mua ha ha ha ha ha ha haaaa!
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
that is when the people who are dissatisfied with MS and how the courts fail to create fair business practices from them all switch to Linux or Apple.... THAT would be justice
Support NYCountryLawyer RIAA vs People
This is only a bit more of a punishment than the fine from the EU of a couple ten thousand dollars a day.
And what else do they have to give out? More Microsoft products! Either a voucher, or software for schools. And from that comes support contracts, future upgrades, additional add-ons, all which will cost the schools and/or users additional money.
Why do courts and defendants even allow this? If I cut myself with a razor because it was used shoddy construction and a blade wasn't secured properly, and sue the company, why would I want another razor from them? I may get the razor free, but I still wind up having to buy blades for it later.
Granted, they aren't saying they don't want Windows, just that they were overcharged, but this still seems ludicrous.
"Bet the states are licking their chops now... with Vista Ultimate pegged at 399.99. talk about overcharging."
I doubt it would qualify. After all, there are three editions below it, each of which will successfully run the vast majority of Vista-compatible products. In no way are you forced to buy the top of the line. You'd have to argue they are overcharging for the "core" or basic product. Maybe they are, maybe they aren't. That's a different question.
So when do we start the law suits against the lawyers who screw the average guy by filing lawsuits on their behalf and then making all the profits and getting us coupons? Seems like a lawsuit that the jury couldn't help but award to us.
I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.
Microsoft cannot begin to dream of reaching the level of evil that lawyers as a group have attained. You think the cost of having a Microsoft monopoly is high? Lawyers and legal organizations increase the cost of every single thing you ever bought in your life, from penny candy to auto insurance. They take a portion of every bit of money that changes hands for legal reasons, they siphon money off of broken families and child support settlements, and from birth death they get their cut every step of the way.
Although I'm sure this suit is pretty low on the merit-scale (wow, a Vista Home Premium upgrade costs a whole $20 more than the latest OS X), it sets a great precedent.
I can download Linux for $0. It is a full-fledged operating system. If Linux can cost $0, so should Windows and Mac OS X. Never that Linux is free mostly because the developers are volunteers, it's obvious that this is high time for a suit against both Apple and Microsoft. Whee!
Anyone have the iowaconsumercase.org documents mirrored? The site now requires authentication.
--
Given enough personal experience, all stereotypes are shallow.
Actually, as it turned out, they were helpful — they helped spur the development of K12OS...
Just junk food for thought...
What I thought was interesting is the claim that Windows adds $50 on average to the cost of a computer, pre-installed. First off, that's a lot less than the retail price. Second, regardless what you think of it, it's pretty cheap for a substantial piece of software that comes with installation and support.
Intron: the portion of DNA which expresses nothing useful.
these cases really upset me.
I get mail all the time showing the lawyers are going to make 4 to 16 million dollars and as a member of the class I'll get less than a hundred bucks. I do not join the class. I know ultimately, i'm going to be paying higher prices because of this crap.
She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
The lawyer's fees should be limited to a percentage of the actual damages collected by their clients. Using pseudo calculations like, "5 million customers would be given as much as 30$ worth of coupons and so the lawyers will collect 50 million dollars (33% of the total) in hard cash right now" is a farce. Just making sure that the lawyer's take would not exceed 33% of the what the class of victims collect as a total would be a step in the right direction. In the present system, once the award is declared and the lawyers have been paid, there is no incentive for anyone to seach and find all the members of the class and compensate them.
sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
If you are so bothered by having someone represent you for free, you should just opt out of the class action settlement and file suit yourself. In everyone one of these class action settlements, all known class members will receive a letter from the court informing them of the settlement and of how to opt out (you just need to send a letter to the court). I'm sure most people receive several of these every year and just throw them out because they haven't been harmed enough to care.
As for the "kids of Iowa", the Iowa AG should file suit against Microsoft to recover money for the kids, that way greedy plaintiff's lawyers can't get any of it. If the Iowa AG doesn't want to do this, your problem is with him (and Microsoft of course)
We desperately need this up on bittorrent. Please do it if you can or ask for help if you can't.
It's unfortunate that the case is settled as the truth of MS as an organization was finally getting out in detail with their website. While it's too bad that the documents are now unavailable there are many who claim they have copies. At the very least the documents made public in the case to this point clearly put to bed the myth/fiction that MS competes on the merits of their products. Their use of secret api's and intentional sabotaging of competitors products is now proven by their own internal documents.
by John Grisham. It's about how class-action suits work, or don't, at least for the members of the class. Very interesting reading. Be prepared to be angry whenever you hear the term class-action. The only winners are the lawyers. I wish, as another poster commented, that they were paid with Microsoft coupons.
"Do the Right Thing. It will gratify some people and astound the rest." - Mark Twain
It's sad that the US Government is implementing price controls on the market - but in order to maintain the veneer of laissez-faire capitalism, they're doing so via 'anti-trust' legislation, rather than through explicit legislation.
I say its time for MS to be forced to publish their "standards" and APIs.
I disagree. I think that Microsoft has to be stopped from using anti-competitive tactics in their way of doing business and the rest will take care of itself. Let them keep their junk, closed source, buggy operating system.
I say one set of prices for EVERYONE published publicly with no contract tie-ins to any other MS or competing product coming into the equation will take care of everything!
Aside from this Iowa case, why can't Microsoft be tried once more by the government on anti-trust violations. I'm no lawyer, but I feel that every time Microsoft releases something new they do so not for the benefit of the consumer but for the benefit of the share holders. Is the government simply too computer illiterate to realize what Microsoft is doing with their latest operating system, or has the whole world gone mad with power money and greed? I'm leaning towards the latter, but there has to be something or someone who can stand up to Microsoft for the consumers. I feel like the majority of the population just walks in a row like sheep and recites a mantra to themselves, "Must buy, latest and greatest MS release".... Like lemmings.
Relocating to San Francisco / Palo Alto... Hire me?
Giving MS products away is NOT punishment, it is only helping Monkey$haft.
I think M$ should be forced to pay out money to the schools and then the schools can decide where they want to spend it. M$, linux, Mac, it should be the schools' choice.
Switching to free software is far better than switching from one master to another. Apple is largely just another proprietor, but with a completely free software operating system and only free software apps on top of that, you can liberate yourself from proprietors/monopolists.
Digital Citizen
And Microsoft is still a monopoly. If Iowa dealt with all organized criminals by just making them give back what they'd stolen when caught, every Iowan would have to join the gang to make a living.
--
make install -not war
It is not all that different from the fees I am charged by my plumber, and less than my dentist charges.
Trial lawyers who run these class action suits, however, usually settle for a piece of the pie, or charge for inflated time at inflated amounts, or both. Have no doubt, while they *profess* to be doing it for good ol' justice & the common man, they are doing it because it is as lucrative as hell.
Result: they take on many suits that should not be brought. Dubious allegations of stock manipulation, product liability, etc etc. Many defendants settle rather than go through the years of expense, even if they know they have done nothing wrong. It has to be factored in as a cost of business, and either drives them out of business altogether, or raises their costs to the consumers if they survive.
Remedy: ban any lawyers from taking any portion of the amount at offer, and limit them to capped hourly rates. Then have an assessor go over the reasonableness of all hourly costs they have charged, and discount it according to what is reasonable for the work. And if the consumers/plaintiffs get paid in rebates or coupons only, then so should their lawyers.
And to those who say that doing so will lead to no justice for the 'lil man, etc: if there is a meritorious case, then there will be a non-money grubbing lawyer willing and able to bring it. Clear out the parasites, and you will leave only those lawyers who actually do it because they give a damn about what they are doing, not because it buys them fast cars, big condos and lots of bling.
That will probably end up being $32.99 billion in the hands of the lawyers...
Why is it I've never seen a full version of Windows for $50 at Staples, Office Depot, etc.? And, if I remember correctly, the "Microsoft tax" I paid when I bought my Dell laptop last year was around $100.
Too bad I don't live in Iowa. Well, maybe not. It's ten degrees Fahrenheit in Cedar Rapids right now.
"Who controls the past controls the future. Who controls the present controls the past." -- George Orwell
Why is everybody posting "I have them... I might post them if you are interested".. do you want us to beg or what??
Just in case you don't know how to make a torrent, here's a guide for windows.
http://www.bittorrent.com/guide.html
download link if you don't have it
http://www.bittorrent.com/download.html
If you have linux, e.g. Fedora, then it's installed by default and should be even easier.
The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers.
SCO should be so fortunate.
Heard any good sigs lately?
the team prosecuting the case has already earned $60 million in legal fees
Normally I try to look for the other side of the story, and give the benefit of the doubt to who/whatever is being maligned by the Slash&burn summary or the groupthink. In this case, however, I find it very difficult. While fees != profit, it's hard to believe that the investigation, research, and preperation expenses would amount to more than a third of that figure. Additionally, the acceptance of a settlement indicates that they could care less about either setting a precedent or actually taking MS to task. I guess that shouldn't surprise me, but I'm still disappointed.
https://www.eff.org/https-everywhere
Trial lawyers who run these class action suits, however, usually settle for a piece of the pie, or charge for inflated time at inflated amounts, or both.
And generally get nothing unless they win. Higher risk, higher reward.
Result: they take on many suits that should not be brought.
If the suits are without merit, they will be dismissed, same as any other.
Remedy: ban any lawyers from taking any portion of the amount at offer, and limit them to capped hourly rates.
Then many worthwhile cases will not get the best representation.
Look, these class action lawsuits don't cost consumers a thing. All of the risk is carried by the attorneys, and so they deserve to be well compensated. Don't like it - assume some of the risk yourself and hire your own representation - or else you are greedy yourself.
You want more money from a company that has wronged you, hire your own damn attorney. You are getting something (a settlement) for nothing (no effort or risk on your own) and you complain about not getting more money? Just who is really being greedy here?
Lawyers and legal organizations increase the cost of every single thing you ever bought in your life, from penny candy to auto insurance.
No, they reduce those costs by holding companies accountable for their criminal and negligent actions. You would be paying more money without lawyers, because companies would never be held accountable and would keep on doing what got them sued in the first place.
The greatest trick in the world wasn't the devil convincing people he did not exist. The greatest trick was big industry convincing workers and consumers that standing up for themselves through lawsuits, regulation and unions is bad and those things need to be gotten rid of, for the benefit of the common man than big industry.
Some people are talking about only receiving one hundred dollars as a result of being part of class action lawsuit. Consider this Microsoft case, if Microsoft is guilty of charging too much, how much exactly should each defendant receive? A million dollars? No, each defendant is entitled to receive how much they were overcharged as a result of Microsoft's practices. In some cases, that is what class actions are all about. The ability of many citizens, who are unable or have such small claims, that bringing their suit on their own behalf is not worth it.
Look at the case of Wake Up Walmart, a class action brought on behalf of women working at Wal-Mart who feel that they have been passed over for promotions and have not received as much in wages as men. Each woman would most likely only have lost a promotion or some thousands of dollars. This would not be worth it for them to bring on their own (in most cases).
You may laugh, but I was a member of the class (i.e. some random nobody) in one of these class action suits against Microsoft. And was informed that they were about to settle it for something similar--we could get something like a coupon from Microsoft, but it could only be used on purchases that were likely to ensure that we'd buy something with Windows on it...
I spent quite a few hours researching as much as I could to object to the damn settlement, but I know almost nothing about the law and certainly not enough for something like that. I did, eventually, write something really long and as well-supported as I could manage, but I didn't quite finish it by the deadline. Probably just as well, the one lawyer friend I got to take a look at it told me that, basically, it was pretty good for a layman, but the Court was very unlikely to pay any attention to it, anyhow.
Yes I know all you /.ers are gonna bash me for this, but quit acting like MS is the only corporation that buys market share. Do you think automobiles still run on gasoline because car makers think it is a good idea? No, they run on gasoline b/c Exxon/Mobil has paid for them to run on gasoline. Do you think Gov. Perry (Texas) passed a law that requires all pre-adolescent girls to get vaccinated against an STD b/c he thinks it is in their best interest? No, he passed the law b/c Merck gave him a s**t load of money. I know its fun to bash MS b/c they throw sacks of money around to stay at the top of the market, but there are hundreds of companies that do it, and thousands that would if they had the money.
02/13/2006 FUNDS RECEIVED *type: *DEPOSIT $251.00
$251.00 is serious money from Microsoft Corp, NOT "Average consumers will probably end up with a few bucks or a coupon".
Wouldn't it be nice if the judge could rule that the public good would be best served by seeing the case through, and did indeed ruled so in this case?
Everyone keeps bashing on Microsoft in this article... but did anybody stop to think that if they set the price of a product at $X and the consumers were willing to pay this price instead of looking at open-source alternatives then it's the consumers own damn fault that they got ripped off.
Microsoft is NOT a monopoly, there's always an alternative if the consumer would just look past their noses they'd see it. Honestly bashing MS because they set a price they figured people would be willing to pay is just foolish... you should be bashing the people who were dumb enough to cough up the cash for MS products.
-- Sex is the antonym of pringles. Once you pop it's time to stop.
I was offered a settlement for software bundled with my laptop, but to claim it I had to give MS a heinous ammount of personal information, including my social security number and birthdate.
I declined the offer rather than have enough information for identity theft in the hands of a company I don't choose to do business with in the first place.
It's bad enough you have to buy Windows even if your going to use something else.
but it rarely actually happens, especially in less intuitive areas of law like anti-trust. For instance, the credit card industry hacks who re-wrote the bankruptcy code with the 2005 amendments did such a poor job that in some cases their objectives for making the changes may be undermined by the poor language used. Also, it appears that in some cases, the new amendments might be overturned for violating various constitutional provisions. You think the anti-trust code doesn't need a specialist? Take a gander at it. What about the Income Tax code? Even attorneys who don't practice in these areas are often mystified by the language. Plus, in our legal system, each state may pass its own laws, and each federal circuit may interpret the same laws differently. It the circuits become too divided, or if the state legislatures get a little crazy, the Supreme Court can rectify the situation. No matter the legal system, a good lawyer will always be helpful. Why? Because juries don't always make decisions strictly on the facts. Think of it this way: if there are two job applicants competing for the same job, and one has substantially better qualifications, but the other has better political, social skill, and has a more professional image, which one will get the job. Perception counts, and reality (sometimes) bites.
The law spoke too softly to be heard in such a noise of war... Plutarch
I have a few hundred dollars worth of vouchers from the California M$ anti-trust settlement. They want me to send in my original receipts (from 5 years ago) in order to redeem them. For me, it's not worth the trouble to sift through my old records to see if I have them. A better solution would have been to allow for the use of product serial numbers -- they are readily available. I'm sure that I am in the majority. What this means is the the California settlement was a BIG WIN for M$.
The Minnesota settlement got my wife and me a refurb Epson 2400 scanner, a cheap HP inkjet (both linux compatible) and three LinuxStore "Tux" keyboards from Cheapbytes.
I'll take it. But, yes, I would rather be using IBM OS/4 HyperDrive today.
...first and foremost is to it's shareholders. It's second obligation is to follow the law while making a profit for the shareholders that put money into the venture. Microsoft does the former, not the latter, and really needs to be tried under the latter.
~Khyber
And it's Postscript. What doesn't work?
I call "bollocks" on this one.
PS the reason why you get the vitriol from some people is your namecalling: "zealots like you" and that you're a twat.
What have I been saying all this time!!! The only people doing anything here is the lawyers are making all this money, and the consumer still gets ripped. Microsoft will most likely just pass this cost along to the consumer in higher prices and consider it part of doing business. It's like the lawyers have some kind of grip on the monetary system of this country! What is it that makes these people grab all the money and leave nothing for the so-called group that they are representing??? I don't understand that one!
Then theres the line they put in the suit that says something to the effect that you are considered inclusive to the suit unless you *explicitly* write in and opt-out. And; as part of that suit, you are agreeing to surrender all your rights and awards over to these lawyers to be part of the class. What kind of judge allows that???
All content in this message is copyright (c) 2008. All rights reserved. RIAA is prohibited here.
This is happening in Wisconsin as well and I think it is the same lawyer group. The return for the consumer is a whopping $15; something for me to get all excited about! However, as the article points out, it will certainly be the lawyers that get the win fall as they reap in millions in fees.
Do you know why MS cost so much? It is the lawyers, there's and the others that drive the lawsuits, which keep driving up the cost of MS products.
he's a novelist. He's also an attorney so his novels have authentic background information, but, yes, it's fiction.
I, too, cannot imagine a workable legal system without tort law and class action, but it doesn't hurt to point out the flaws in what we're working with. Read the book as I suggested, it's very interesting.
Anyway, thanks for reading and commenting.
"Do the Right Thing. It will gratify some people and astound the rest." - Mark Twain