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One In Five Windows Installs Is Non-Genuine
snib writes "Microsoft disclosed Monday that, according to reports collected by the notorious Windows Genuine Advantage tool on millions of users' PCs, 22% of all Windows installs do not pass its validation tests and have therefore been deemed non-genuine. Quoting: 'Since WGA launched in July 2005, over 512 million users have attempted to validate their copy of Windows, Microsoft said. Of those, the non-genuine rate was 22.3 percent... [T]he Business Software Alliance... reports that 35 percent of the world's software is pirated (22 percent in North America)...'"
22%? That's almost 25%!
Karma: Bad (mostly due to all those "In Soviet Russia" jokes)
My Windows XP Pro validates as Genuine... Tough, it's not really... Corporate edition on a private machine. Frankly, they left that CD for 6 months lying around in the open space. No wonder, I took it with me when I left that place. Posting Anonymous for obvious reasosn.
Oh, and apart from Windows: I don't pirate anything else. I can run my machine effectively by using only OpenSoucre and Free as in Beer programs. The next step is obviously going full-opensource. Give me time.
from SCO.
Now give us the figures on how many of these "pirate" copies are users who don't want to buy the same software twice because of bullshit DRM in it.
I like muppets.
Pff, that's obviously because geeks/pirates have so many more installations than the average person.
I'd probably count for four, but if it counts as a new installation each time you format, than more than double that. (No more now though, I've got a Mac. 3) I'd assume it's the same for many users here.
Or does WGA fail 22% of the time? Hmmm?
I can count 5 that fail it's validation and every one of them is a legal copy on a legal system.
I would look at there program first, then accuse everyone of steeling second.
It really does not surprise me that there are a lot of pirated copies out there.
How you shout in the woods, so it answers back....
There's no way it's that low
One in five... of people who actually attempted to run the WGA. I'd imagine there's a sizable group of people who already know they won't pass it, so they never even try.
I anticipate that some folks will say 'lolz if WGA doesn't false positive!!11!!eleventy!' (translated: Assuming that WGA doesn't falsely label a machine as pirated). The number of these seems to be reeeeeally low, I'm guessing it's not a big part of the final numbers.
I know for a fact that my install is 100% genuine...Although WGA has flagged it as non-genuine.
I obtained my copy of XP from a university site license that was given to all the students at the university of Pittsburgh. They just recently invalidated that site license...so you are looking at tens of thousands (if not a couple hundred thousand) students, faculty and staff that were all using that key that is now non-genuine.
Actual piracy numbers are likely to be even larger.
Why? Two main reasons.
One: Pirates are probably far less likely to attempt to run a WGA certification compared to a legitimate licence holder. For obvious reasons.
Two: "Borrowed" corporate editions, etc. will validate despite being, well, "borrowed".
I had a valid windows XP workstation using a volume license suddenly begin failing validation for no reason. There was nothing I could do to save the workstation. I even called microsoft tech support. I had to reformat and start over.
You're underestimating piracy.
Here when you send your computer to repairs. It returns with a pirated Windows XP and pirated Photoshop, how's that.
Syllable 0.62 is here at last!!!
Microsoft disclosed Monday that, according to reports collected by the notorious Windows Genuine Advantage tool on millions of users' PCs, 22% of all Windows installs do not pass its validation tests and have therefore been deemed non-genuine.
/dnyun/ -adjective
genuine
1. possessing the claimed or attributed character 2. descended from the original stock; pure in breed:
Even pirated software is genuine.
The theory of relativity doesn't work right in Arkansas.
My free copy of WindowsXP that I've installed on my Mac Mini is valid (msdn academic alliance), but I've intentionally avoided installing anything with WGA because I have problems with that kind of tactic.
.msi packages.
I managed to find a crack so I could download IE7 without WGA (I never use IE, I use Mozilla products, but it's the kind of thing you install just because you figure something Microsoft is probably going to require it sooner or later). And some other WGA-only updates are available in places as WGA-less downloads. You can also use Microsoft's Orca to disable the WGA check in some
Maybe someone will reply and complain about how I'm not using an official super-approved install of IE7, but WGA was created to stop people from illegally using stolen software (the stuff they charge actual money for, and you didn't pay for), and IE7 is a free download. I just preferred to get around their #$*!@% WGA stuff.
I'm curious to understand how they determine that 22 percent of the pirated software in the world is pirated in the US...more importantly how they get that info from looking at the amount of counted pirated copies of windows that tried to validate themselves. Afterall, we all know that only the US uses Windows...
I bet that 22% is probably very wrong.
They say that that's 22% of those who attempted to be authenticated- anyone who knows they are using a pirated copy sure as hell isn't going to try to authenticate it. Those who failed either didn't know they had a pirated copy (installed by teenage son or shady computer store) or are really dumb pirates.
Or the third option, that WGA fails a fifth of the time. I can think of at least one instance where I have tried to authenticate a legitamite copy (which I had just unpacked from HP, and was doing updates on) and WGA said it didn't pass.
Actually I always thought that all copies of Windows were a non-genuine operating system. What with all the bugs, security problems, lame features, etc.
Should probably read that 100% of Windows installs are genuine crap, but only 78% are genuinely licensed crap.
My experience in reinstalling several completely fried windows boxes (virus or trojans) is that the biggest issue is that the OEM CD has been lost and then the key that they have, for a perfectly valid version of Windows, doesn't work for the "full" Windows CD that I (legally) have. So what is the solution? Phone MS Support? Hell they say its an OEM problem. Phone the OEM and they want to charge to ship a new replacement CD, or just don't care.
So I'd say that a decent proportion of those "invalid" windows installs are actually perfectly valid but just suffering because a reinstall had to be done due to the MS security issues and couldn't be done from a CD that matched the key. You can actually get MS support (nice high cost phone number) to sort this out but it really isn't worth the pain, no doubt these days they'll be pushing a "Vista upgrade" as the solution.
So WGA failure doesn't mean it isn't legal, just that the key you have doesn't match the CD that had to do the re-install.
An Eye for an Eye will make the whole world blind - Gandhi
And sir, what percentage of that 22% are false positives, hmm?
I thought that any OS (NT, XP, 2K, 95, 98) that ran the Windows codebase was "genuine" windows. Who cares if it is pirated.
Now, a counterfit windows, that would be interesting. I can see some company making a Windows-clone...
The Kai's Semi-Updated Website Thingy
I wonder what the number of the valid Windows copies are that are due to it coming pre-installed from wherever the PC was purchased.
Switch to a user friendly install of Linux EVERYONE! I usually bought all of my MSFT software from friends who worked for the company, but recently I switched to Ubuntu and there is no looking back. I have found a version of every application I need...so microsoft can suck it, and be glad more people don't find out that they can have a FREE, better, and more secure operating system.
22 % PLUS all of the pirates smart enough to not even try.
blog reviews is non-genuine.
Coincidentally, the current tally of Vista reviews in blogs is along the lines of 4:1 (bad: good)...
Those who insist on using proprietary operating systems get to pay for them. Yes, even when that means they pay with their time.
If your copy of Windows won't validate, that's between you and Microsoft, my friend:
Oh, and there's a Linux installfest this Thursday. If things between you and Bill don't work out, why don't you stop by and install a real 64 bit OS on your machine?
But I do hate it for the gamers, man. What are they going to do?
The society for a thought-free internet welcomes you.
I kid. Really, I kid.
${YEAR+1} is going to be the year of Linux on the desktop!
But virus-infected software is not. Maybe that's what this number is referring to.
http://outcampaign.org/
22.3% Non-Genuine
72.9% Genuine
4.8% Pat Buchanan
"Five to one, baby, one in five. No one here gets out alive!"
I know of dozens of machines with pirated copies of Windows that all report back as genuine. What does the program look for to determine if a copy is genuine or not? Who are these 25% and what did they have to do to make the WGA check fail?
Dekker Dreyer
every small local computer company ive worked for has installed the 'devilsown' version of xp pro that doesnt require a key or activation. i tried for a long time, at each of them, to convince the owner(s) to start buying CoA's in bulk, but to no avail.
/about/ right, considering that most businesses and even most residential clients buy dell/compaq/etc name brand computers which come with a CoA, but then I remembered -- all the places i worked, it was 'sop' (standard operating procedure) to simply reformat said computers using the pirated copy anyway, completely ignoring the coa (unless, of course, the people could provide the restore cd's, which few people ever do--and we all know how often a xp based computer needs a reformat when in the hands of a standard computer user with broadband). that paired with the fact that almost every small computer shop does the same thing (and id know, ive known techs from all over the usa), id say that this particular piracy statistic is far far off base.
i was thinking, though, 22% sounds
does anyone here remember the stats on quake piracy? it was someone from id, i dont think it was carmak though, that said there were 2.5x the amount of people playing quake online than there were copies of the game sold.
and it will always be so.
I wonder if they plan to apologize to the 80% of their customers who got this system foisted on them without recourse (you have to enable WGA to get security fixes).
Not to mention, the 20% must be either really stupid (I wonder if my Haxxored Windows copy will validate? Gee, let's try!) or, more likely, have misconfigured Windows systems or bugs in WGA that report them as invalid when they probably own a legitimate license.
Great marketing strategy though: punish your legit user-base as the pirates work around your system. Can't wait to see how Vista improves things. I'm excited to see what "advantage" I'm "genuinely" going to get.
Disclosure: I only allow WGA on my work machine, where I have little choice and didn't pay the license fee personally.
They going to war and treating their customers like criminals, just in an attempt to get an extra 20-30%.
Of that 20-30% how many of them would switch to an alternative, if they couldn't get a pirated copy.
That 20-30% is how windows gets to 90%+ market share.
A friend just bought a Toshiba laptop with Win XP at Christmas. Fresh out of the box, WGA thinks it is invalid.
Yay. Another pirate foiled, as far as WGA and MS are concerned. Of course, the reality is, he hasn't been able to update his system, so his security patches are out of date, and it will slowly get worse with time.
I recommended AutoPatcher as the solution. It's a heck of a lot easier than waiting on the phone for MS or Toshiba support.
I hope MS weighs all those frustrated legitimate users against all the "pirates" they think they are catching.
That's a lot...
"Five to one, baby
One in five
No one here gets out alive, now
You get yours, baby
Ill get mine
Gonna make it, baby
If we try
The old get old
And the young get stronger
May take a week
And it may take longer
They got the guns
But we got the numbers
Gonna win, yeah
Were takin over
Come on!
Yeah!"
Shakespeare poems - infinite monkeys with infinite time.Computer tech support - a few trained ones working from 9 to 5.
Imagine if they managed to find an effective way to eliminate all pirated installs. Their market share would drop by about 20% overnight! I'm guessing that most of those pirates wouldn't bother to purchase a copy should their pirated copy stop working.
Already (and, at the time I'm posting this, there are only around 25 comments), there are people talking about how copies of XP that they know they obtained legally fail to authenticate (so the reported piracy rate might be inflated), people pointing out, correctly, that even a modestly bright pirate will be smart enough not to try to authenticate when he knows it will fail (and so the estimated piracy rate might be too low), and people coming up with a smattering of other ways in which WGA could give false positives or negatives.
It seems safe to say that Microsoft has no frelling clue how many pirated copies of XP are out there, and that WGA is approximately useless as a tool for trying to count them. Not that it will matter at all in the media -- "One In Five Windows Installs Is Non-Genuine" is too good a headline to pass up.
"Pff, that's obviously because geeks/pirates have so many more installations than the average person." *Cough* Microsoft Employees *cough*.
I have a friend who bought a computer in the Philippines recently, got it home and immediately got the "advantage" warning. They went back to the store and were told to just not update unless they wanted to pay for the "upgrade" that got them a legitimate license for Windows.
put 50 billion dollars into the man's pockets. What exactly is his complaint again? Piracy has also insured that Apple only gets 5 percent of the market. Why? Because it's rather difficult to bootleg the giant "Macintosh" dongle that apple attached to its software. Draw your own conclusions about the subject of piracy. For me, the numbers speak for themselves, quite loudly. Just adding to the chorus of voices in my head.
What?
They should just give the users updates, but force a bunch of adware, spyware, and rootkits with them. Basically, force the users to either get a legitimate copy or pursue a different OS. This is much better than having 100 million vulnerable machines on the net. IMHO
Fortune favors the bold.
Licenses are not.
I do not think you understand or respect all/some/many/this license.
i installed a genuine unique copy of win xp on a laptop, then the same copy on my desktop, about a year ago. for a few months, the laptop refused to be updated due the existence of the other copy in use. then, windows update relented, and now both machines have no WGA problems
i use both machines off the same IP, so maybe that's the reason: maybe microsoft relented and allowed some X number of machines behind the same IP, or something like that. by relenting, it suggests a lot of people were in my position and microsoft didn't want to marginalize or infuriate a large number of genuine buyers who happened to install on two or three machines at home/ office. that makes sense
besides it's not like the simple, quickly found javascript workaround you simply typed in the address window while on windows update was ever difficult for the pirates. classic case of life made hard for the "good" guys, no different in difficulty for the "bad" guys
and the latest version of ms office never had any WGA issues, even though i used a corporate enterprise disk from work. heh
funny thing is, i never bought windows xp (i've never bought office or any other windows os for that matter either). i've always relied on corporate enterprise disks or scrounged from buddies... but weirdly my wife ordered a book from amazon, and when the ups guy came, amazon inexplicably included windows xp premium in the delivery box (the book she ordered had nothing to do with anything computer related, and we weren't charged and it wasn't on the invoice). so i returned it to amazon. not! i used it. i was happily using a pirated copy of xp before it arrived, but was glad to get WGA compliant for no $ nor fuss, right about the time WGA started becoming a hassle
so thank you oh careless amazon stockroom clerk/ warez faerie godmother
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
[AOL] Me too! [/AOL]
If that's the only basis for Microsoft's estimate, they are *way* off, and I bet actually piracy isn't even half that.
I have 5 different machines running XP. 3 of them insist they are pirated...even though I have receipts and valid license certificates bought from OfficeMax for two copies, and the third copy came installed with the machine when I bought it new out of the box. When I contacted Microsoft about this, their tech's response was words to the effect of "You'll have to buy valid copies again." My response was, and I quote, "Fuck you, I'll just crack WGA on my validly purchased copies that I already own, and I dare you assholes to try and prosecute."
I want a new quote. One that won't spill. One that don't cost too much. Or come in a pill.
1. How many installs are erroneously flagged as genuine?
2. How many installs are erroneously flagged as not genuine?
3. How many installs are not seen by WGA?
4. How many of those are genuine/not genuine?
Please correct me if I got my facts wrong.
Those who count the WPA and Microsoft counts of validity of licensed MSFT OS installs and believe them
AND
Those who live in the Real World and know that most of the supposed fake installs are legitimate licensees that are not considered valid by WGA but are actually valid and legal licenses.
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
Looks like SCO have managed to wangle some mod points on slashdot... anyone with a sense of humour and mod points like to mod that the way it should be?
The revolution will not be televised... but it will have a page on Wikipedia
Shouldn't the stats also reflect the TOTAL number of licenses sold by Microsoft vs how many was validated? Or is Microsoft afraid the truth is that they sold a LOT more then 512 million copies of Windows that were legally sold.....
I currently have 4 machines running windows presently. Two desktops, two laptops. The laptops are quite legit, both came shipped with windows, Media center edition, and Pen edition. The desktops were not shipped with windows but have legit copies of XP pro on them.
The laptops, i've only had issue with one, the Toshiba pen edition. I "wanted" to do a fresh install on a fresh drive, but didn't have the tablet edition, nor was downloading possible as no copy would take my legit key.
Desktops, I've had NOTHING but issues. Motherboard upgrades, pre WGA systems would fail to authentiate. Post WGA systems in all fairness the warning was a tad more tolerant. I could browse the net, and get a resolution, well, except for the fact that on my via based board you needed to download the USB drivers, so alot of hassle to backup a system who's motherboard failed, who due to Nortons wouldn't mount under XP, just to get the same glitch when trying to transfer the old install to a new system.
I understand what microsoft is doing. They are trying to prevent casual piracy, those casual pirates who would otherwise buy one copy and use on many machines are likely to just buy another copy. But what they are actually doing is encouraging people like my self to download a cracked version of xp pro corp.
It would be "nice" if you could tell freaking windows "I bought new hardware, transfer this license". They can be control freaks till their hearts explode, so long as they continue to permit me to
1) Backup my existing install of windows
2) in the event of hardware failure, restore a backup, and have it work, or transfer the hard disk to another machine without assuming i've gone rogue.
There is no sanctuary. There is no sanctuary. SHUT UP! There is no shut up. There is no shut up.
Not to be a troll, I'm honestly curious. Do they mean 512 million "unique" users? And is every user in the bad 22% a unique user?
It could just be the same 100 people making the same, stupid mistake 512,000 times.. I mean, it's unlikely, but my point remains: are they inflating the actual numbers?
Blerg.
I work in a computer shop and we never load pirated copy's of software as to do so is asking for trouble from Microsoft. As i believe a Slashdot article showed MS has in crested it anti-piracy in the last few years for home users but even more for shop/stales/and online shops. I understand the fine for my shop to load a None-legal copy of XP on a machine to be around £10,000 and for the Home user £1000! That is a hefty fine and not worth it for a license key that could cost you as little as £50? Harry McLaren - Hazclan13 http://www.kumahosting.co.uk/
Harry McLaren - Hazclan13 http://www.kumahosting.co.uk
I had three that failed, all of them HPs that I bought at Wal-Mart. Two of them failed multiple times, so they are now Linux-powered. The third one only fails if I download updates and try to run them instead of using Microsoft Update and automatic installation.
Since you almost can't buy a computer from a major manufacturer that doesn't include Win (99%), the article is trying to tell me that 22% are making their own computers? Right.
Since XP is now the old OS, how many users changed more than 5 items in their hardware and found it would not take the key anymore even through they paid for their original OS? I guess the figures didn't take that into account either.
Nor did they take into account the false positives nor the bad publicity that followed WGA and informed the public of spyware concerns. I'm sure this has nothing to do with denying WGA access to individual users computers with their concern over privacy and M$'s lack of concern.
Actually, computers like those that HP put out with the OS on a nonuser partition are partly to blame for this. There's no restore cd. When the nonuser partition is hacked (as what happened to me)it was sent back for reimaging. Within two weeks it was back to the same condition. The right to use Win was paid for in the price of the computer. Why in the world would I spend more money for what should have been included in package to begin with?
Needless, I no longer buy HP products. That money saving idea cost them 3 additional computer purchases. Great cost savings idea, eh?
Nor was I inclined to buy another copy of the OS. You figure it out.
... because I've re-defined "genuine" to mean that I got paid for it. All your money are belong to me.
Seriously - this is as meaningless as it gets. It's like the *IAA numbers on piracy. Why all the pretense? Let's just *ask* them "how much money do you want?" At least then we can just tell them "No."
All this polite fiction does is allow politicians to bloviate, legislators to introduce yet more legislation decreeing what our corporate overlords are entitled to, regulators to ignore ever more egregious behavior, etc.
Oh, wait...I think I answered my own question. Nevermind.
Insisting on "correct" English is like saying that there is only one, definitive recipe for chili.
Yeah, for a certain age group, almost everyone pirates. I'm somewhat conflicted, because I don't want to give Microsoft any of my hard earned money, but I am also a musician's son and I know that "artists" rely on royalty checks to survive. My two cents.. yeah, we're going to crack your protection schemes and use your product and its updates for free.. deal with it. I'd imagine that the number of pirated installs is much larger, too.
Smokedot.org
Well, of the 4 bought and paid for xp installs I have done, 2 say they are not genuine. Of all the boxen with a "borrowed or test" copy all pass WGA. So good job M$.
Be it MS or other company, software piracy is a pain in the b_tt. No wonder MS goes such a great length in making sure it is a licensed copy. Here at /. people discount because it is MS loosing money. But in reality those computers could have installed open source OS such as Linux or BSD and that would have atleast contributed to good desktop OS competition
Who in their right mind would waste the time and energy (and sanity) to crack Windows... ew... Linux for life!
This is exacerbated by the following points:
There may be some real data here, but no one with an ounce of ethics, much less a statistics or economics background, will be allowed anywhere near it. File under "FUD," "bullshit," or similar.
Schwab
Editor, A1-AAA AmeriCaptions
What the hell - are all the firewalls open to leak data to Microsoft - or do people call a 1-800 number or something to turn on Windows these days?
I suspect firewalls blocking the packets is another big inaccuracy in their counting.
(forgive my ignorance, it's been a while since I worked in a Microsoft shpo)
22% of all Windows installs do not pass its validation tests and have therefore been deemed non-genuine
What they actually mean is that 22% of all machines that phone home fail their validation test.
This doesn't take into account false positives, or people who aren't on the net, or people who uninstall the MS spyware that calls home, or virtual machines, and so on.
Weaselmancer
rediculous.
Other than in the buisness environment, most PCs in the US are name brand boxes sold with Windows pre installed. I suspect that even in the buisness environment the preinstalled rule holds true. Since the name brand boxes all have legal copies, I suspect that most of that number is the result of WGA false results. After all one visit to the "Geek Squad" and your box will probably fail WGA.
I do on-site computer repair. In the last 6 years, I have only seen the WGA notifier notify of two truly invalid copies of Windows. (In both cases, the user knew/acknowledged that their copy was likely not properly licensed.) In the same time, I've seen hardware from HP and Dell both come with a key that the MS program cites as invalid, and declares non-genuine. Both with their original OEM installs.
So of WGA-flagged installs I have seen in the past few years, HALF were, in fact, valid installs that were flagged improperly. What was REALLY goofy is that one succeeded in re-activation, and even after re-activation, WGA still insisted it wasn't valid! (The other didn't need reactivation.)
Another non-functioning site was "uncertainty.microsoft.com."
The purpose of that site was not known.
Our company has Dell machines with the reg code right on the side. Since Windows gets garbaged up on a regular basis, it's necessary to reinstall. Who knows where our original discs went, but I've got Windows 2000 discs (don't dare to use XP, especially since it's of no benefit) - but they don't recognize the Dell serial number. So I log on to the net, find a pirate serial number, and the rest of the install goes fine. We freaking own these machines, and licences for them. And by the way, the cd rom drives had been updated to cdrw but the machine didn't know how to boot off those. And some brilliant engineer had the idea to reformat the machines by sticking working hard drives from other (same exact model) machines, of course that didn't work either.
Meanwhile, on my Macs, I'm continuing to be productive. No serial numbers necessary. Hard drive swap works. Any cd I plug in just works, no drivers. And no looking up install/driver/whatever procedures on arcane Linux/BSD sites either.
I've bought/built about 20 PCs for personal use over the years. I bought retail or retail upgrades for each machine (I have 3 concurrent licenses in total). Recently I got a SMART warning and swapped a data drive. I had to talk to a Microsoft support person to get a new license key as the one that came with my install CD didn't work. I since then had to swap the system drive and submitted a support request b/c it won't run windows update and they assigned me a case # a month ago and haven't called back. Fortunately for the community I know Microsoft's machines - even when patched - are a risk so I don't allow them on the public network without a firewall (openbsd in my case). However they should know better than to prevent a paying customer from applying their patches.
Anyway, if you don't want to give money to Microsoft, simply don't use their products.
The Raven
We need more pirates to prevent global warming!
I will bend like a reed in the wind.
So tell me what an OS is worth with very good OSs going for:
1. Linux = $0.00 per copy
2. MacOSX = $190 per family pack for 5 computers
3. Windows VISTA = $400 or so for 1-2 computers
When something is virtually a pure commodity, and not where you do your work (the application is what is important), how much is it really worth?
In the stock market or the pharmacy or hardware store, you pick your screwdriver and you pay the price or you bid on it on eBay. When are Windows VISTA copies going to just be sold by Microsoft on eBay to the highest bidder, maybe 10 at a time?
Why does VISTA have any value? What great and wonderful end-user benefits accrue to acquiring such a behemoth?
What happens if VISTA is launched into Retail, and 85% of the users wants SP Pro instead. If 2 years out VISTA hasn't even reached 50% of the PC market, will VISTA be called the most expensive software blunder in history?
Does the 'non-validated' number include ones that are valid CD keys, but have been used >3 times?
What you're saying is simply not true.
It's true that MSDN AA licenses are "restricted" in that you can't use them for commercial use, and you can't use new licenses/new installs after you leave an institution that is part of an MSDN AA program.
However they specifically state that you may continue using already installed software for as long as you wish after you leave your program, as long as you keep to the original non commercial rules - ie. follow the original license requirements. Therefore if they're marking an install as non-genuine, they aren't keeping to their own agreement. What I suspect happened here is that an institution has been giving out the shared media with a shared key, which isn't how it works (or at least not how it works wherever I've seen this) - students can share installation media but should still be granted individual keys by the MSDN AA administrator.
Maybe we have a fully licensed copy but they didn't ship the CD with the new computer and want you to do a "backup" of whatever POS install they have with their 5000 addon programs. So you install from scratch using an existing CD you have, but because it doesn't exactly match the 8000 different versions of Windows XP Professional Microsoft released, the CD key won't work.
I remember when I bought DOS 5.0, 6.0 and 6.2. I paid alot of money for it, and sometimes the upgrade wasen't worth it. But I got floppies that I really could use to reinstall, and I always had the option of formatting a PC back to nothing and installing the OS on my new machine.
I remember the same thing for Windows 3.1, Windows 95 and Windows 98. Windows NT4, OS/2 2.1. None of these had genuine advantage, and none of them had the installation problems that Windows XP has.
So let me ask you. Coming from a UNIX environment, specifically Linux. Where on a good day, everything is detected during an install and just works, why do I have to put up with this crap?
I'm hoping vista is better. I honestly don't mind buying software when I perceive it to be worth a damn. Why ship a DVD full of out of date drivers that don't support your SCSI card? Why not have at least basic support for Network based install?
Instead of prompting for a license key that nobody has anymore, why not connect to the net and ask for a username/password. Then the company IT admin can see that he's purchased 80 licenses, 5 are unused and he can use one of them to activate this new computer (or, while uninstalling he could deactivate one of the other licenses)
Why do companies insist on designing something in a crappy way then blaming the users for not wanting to buy/use it in the way they intended? If everyone is doing things their own way, why not adapt to what your users obviously want? (Why are all Slipstream SP2 disks a user created thing? Why can't we get virus free ISO's from MS that do this for us?)
I've worked for companies that got audited by the BSA. Their licensing was a mess.. there were hundreds of copies of legit windows but half the machines ethier weren't stickered or were stickered wrong. Imagine keeping hundreds of "Windows seals" and 30 other things because nobody knows what exactly should be retained in the case of an audit. Imagine half your workforce has laptops and is on the road..
Sure, Microsoft has programs that make this easier.. especially for large companies, but alot of it is time consuming BS that shouldn't be needed.
There were ways to nearly prevent software theft years and years ago. Dongles, long registration number that you had to call in to get new numbers . . .
My guess is: msft does not want to totally stop piracy. To msft, the most important thing is to control the standard. The more people who use msft, pirated or otherwise, the more msft is entrenched as the standard.
Whatever numbers the BSA asserts for the percentage of piracy, the fallacy in their position is their assertion that each pirated copy represents a lost sale. I know for a fact that there are people out there who will pirate a copy of something that they would never use if they had to pay money to get it. This is a simple example of a principle basic to economics. Elasticity of demand, or of sales, where the relationship between price and sales volume is not fixed.
Further, as another post asserted, I am sure there is some number of WGA failures that represent multiple attempts. As a software author myself, I am opposed to piracy, I am at least equally opposed to the specious arguments of the BSA, and even more opposed to the devious ads they ran on radio suggesting that people turn in their employers. No one benefits from that, not even the BSA, in the long run, as putting businesses into bankruptcy reduces the number of future sales to be made.
Of course, one approach to the piracy problem would be to bring prices down out of the clouds....
--- Bill
I have not seen an OEM CD of Windows in years. You might get a hidden partion on the harddrive containing an image to reset you machine it state when it left the OEM, you might not. Bottom line, there is really is no way to re-install windows on a repaired machine to make it pass WGA.
This is similar to my situation. I upgrade often but only had one working desktop at a time. Now I use the Windows "Flea Market" distro, but my pirate status isn't so clear cut. I have one computer and I've purchased one XP license.
I have to wonder how many people fall into my category. If anything, this 1-in-5 statistic is an indictment WGA and it's reliability in determining whether or not you are "Genuine".
With a Packard Bell without a CD, only a floppy that would boot a hidden "recovery" partition. But the hard drive died, few months after the warranty expired...
I have discovered a truly marvelous proof of killer sig, which this margin is too narrow to contain.
genuine /dnyun/ -adjective
1. possessing the claimed or attributed character 2. descended from the original stock; pure in breed:
I always knew windows was a bastard of an operating system.
What I want to see is the number of non-genuine copies compared to the number of genuine copies compared to the number of licenses sold. How many of us have paid the M$ tax and not used the product? In other words, compare their taking of value from us to our taking of value from them.
Read it again...Genuine is an adjective modifying Advantage not Windows. Windows is Genuine in all cases but Microsoft's Advantage (presumably over you) is only Genuine if they've extorted money out of you and forced click "I agree" to their EULA (which gives them every right up to and including your first-born).
The presumably their Marketing department would say that this check provides legitimate customers with a Genuine Advantage over using a pirated copy...the piece of mind of knowing that your copy is legitimate and unaltered by the possibly-nefarious who gave or sold you your copy.
Every Windows OS seems to have about 25% useful code, and that is why I purchase their OS, on average, about every fourth release (so far). So I propose that the 22% non-genuines represent Karma that is feeding back to the greedy MS machine. Marketing before Meaning - On the Vista, nice eye candy and little that is sweet.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Windows
;)
"IDC Vice President Avneesh Saxena stated that Windows had approximately 90% of the client operating system market."
So, of the 90% only 68% are genuine (paid for).
I think this is a signal of inflated stock prices.
If I owned M$ stock I would dump it now.
The other way to look at it...
If they count the non-genuine 22% then windows owns 112% of the market.
If I didn't own M$ stock I would buy it now.
Ever buy a computer with windows pre-installed and replace the motherboard - only to find the OS was "bios locked" to the original OEM? How many of these WGA failing installs are because users take the easy route to a working OS instead of taking Microsoft to court?
I hope they make Windows activation, licensing and DRM even more obnoxious. The more they tighten their grip...
I fix computers every day, hundreds every year. Maybe 1 in 200 are pirated and most often they didn't know or their family member did it for them. I generally tell them they should make it legal. I also tell them I am not the police and I could care less about Microsoft's profits, nor do I care to protect Microsoft. I never will. But I let them know that I can fix their computers (when the OS is involved) if they have a legal copy. Most purchase a legal copy.
Of the 20 licenses I have here one would then have to say that I have 4 illegal copies of the OS. This is also not true. All 20 are legal.
Averaging this out it would indicate those numbers are EXTREMELY bloated and COMPLETELY UNTRUE AND INACCURATE.
You can lead a man with reason but you can't make him think.
Ubuntu won't play DVDs, that's between you and Google, my friend: If you were using Windows Vista, you wouldn't have this problem in the first place, and,
WTF? My, you're cruel - why don't you just come clean and tell your friend his CDROM drive won't play DVDs... Blaming it on not having Vista - sheesh! That's a good one. Oh, and Ubuntu doesn't run on 286s, either. Time for your friend to upgrade...
The society for a thought-free internet welcomes you.
That many people are paying for Windows? I guess most business are legit, so if people have one computer in the office, and one at home, so you'd see maybe 50% piracy rate. That would mean that for these numbers to be accurate, roughly half of home installs are illegal.
Just for fun, let's say most people buy a machine with a legit license. Their kid comes over, realizes they are full of spyware/adware and reinstalls Pro over their version of home. That means that half of home installs are probably reinstalls - probably more because many people just reinstall their legit copy. Of the ~20% of people who don't pass WGA, I'd bet most of them had Windows Home installed, and reinstalled with pro when their home install went south. So when you own a home license and install pro, could it be considered that you're only pirating the cost of the upgrade, not the price of a full pro install?
Almost everyone who has ever bought a computer has probably paid for a windows license at one time or another. What is actually installed may be another story. Still, I'm surprised the piracy rate isn't higher considering Microsoft's extremely high pricing.
or else!
"'[T]he Business Software Alliance... reports that 35 percent of the world's software is pirated (22 percent in North America)...'"
What the BSA doesn't tell you is that the software piracy rate is considerably lower today than back in 1994, long before the internet file sharing boom. And what they also don't tell you is that the BSA & IDC compile their piracy statistics from numbers supplied by their member corporations, not from actual law enforcement piracy stats.
Does anyone really think that the insurance industry pays off on any of these dubious piracy claims by BSA member corporations?
If so, there's this bridge in Brooklyn you might wanna consider purchasing!
You can't be serious. So you're saying that if I move my harddrive from one computer to another, with a different mobo, graphics card, etc, M$ has no problem with that?
This is completely contrary of what everyone is saying. You must have had a registry hack in place already, or perhaps your computer has been infected with an ungenuine advantage virus.
22% got what they paid for.
$2B OR NOT $2B = $FF
my current XP Pro installation is from a 'super-multi-build' boot iso I torrented, installed with an enterprise serial 'borrowed' from a large international and has been modified with an even dodgier 'covert XP to MCE' ISO.
It's happily sailed through every single WGA validation check - I really couldn't believe MS accepted the same serial that had magically moved from XP to MCE...
But anyway - reason I put XP enterprise on wasn't that I wasn't entitled to XP, I just couldn't be arsed dealing with validation (I am a hardware whore). Reason I went to MCE was I wanted to connect my machine to my 360 and seemingly MS didn't trust me to build a decent platform myself and let me buy a license/upgrade.
Just to summarize, by not letting any authorized disks near my machine, I've had absolutely no trouble at all and everything has working just swimmingly.
The annoying thing is that I want Vista. I want to buy Vista. The price in the UK is £352.49 for Ultimate on a DVD (from the first place I checked, no idea what the retail is) - that's $696...
I can buy an f'in Dell with Vista for less than that.
If anybody in MS happens to be strolling past this thread, might I suggest, you sell the retail stuff for a sum in the realms of reality? £50 for basic £100 for super-duper? I know it's not as much as you want Bill, but it's £100 more than you're going to get from me currently - and I can't be the only one. An amnesty? I'm open to suggestions..
Who's supposed to be buying the full price copies anyway? The people with a machine capable of running it nicely resent the price - the people who're going to end up with vista are the people blindly stabbing configs on the Dell site as their children are taking the mickey out of their PII
As somebody not prepared to pay the ~$700 for an official serial number, I shall be remaining on my currently working XP. But, please, please, I want to upgrade. I've defended MS in the face of the $100 point releases from Apple.. I want to love it, I truly do..
To summarize, for the first time, I've turned on MS. If I'd been bitten by WGA I'd have raised my hands installed the serial I was supposed to be using - but felt morally fine. MS had a license sale and I, the customer, was happy with my OS. I'm not paying $700 and I'm not having Vista WGA 'catching me out' - I'm staying where I am (and seeing what Apple'll do with the nice hardware Vista's bringing onto the market).
Isn't it redundant? I've been wondering this for a while, but it now seems that there are TWO anti-piracy methods within Windows. One is activation, the other is WGA. Why couldn't Microsoft use activation for all this instead of creating another layer beyond it? Is it that the activation system is too easily cracked? If so, WGA is just as redundant because it's been cracked too. So why the two layers? Why not just combine the activation and WGA validation into one step? It doesn't really make sense to me.
Bill G: "Wow! Give a raise to the guy who came up with this WGA idea."
Flunky: "Furthermore, results show that users who do not pass genuine authentication switch to Linux."
Bill G: "Fire that WGA guy."
I've had two failures -- one on a previously registered system after a motherboard replacement, and one on a new thinkpad when I tried to activate the pre-installed copy with the license key on the bottom of the unit. Both took calls to Microsoft to correct. In the first case, I had to explain why the hardware had changed, and assure the operator that I was not trying to install the same copy on a second machine. The second time we never did figure out what was wrong, and, after taking the serial number of the laptop, the operator eventually gave me a new license key. I always wondered whether those two GA failures counted as non-genuine copies.
Ron
Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
Needing to reactivate is not the same thing as failing Windows Genuine Advantage.
If you change hardware and require reactivation, it just means that your hardware key is now different enough that the license is no longer valid. You can call Microsoft and get the key reset in about 5 minutes.
Failing Windows Genuine Advantage means that the 25 Digit Windows Activation Key (the number on the sticker or on the DVD case) has been flagged as an invalid key, it either fails to satisfy the algorythm used to generate the key, which means it's simply not correct, or it's a key that has been used by hundreds of different computers and is flagged as a "Pirate" key.
Either that or ReactOS.
One would assume their system logs the date and time of the failed validation. I wonder if they are logging the IP address as well?
The 'genuine' quality Microsoft is talking about, the "claimed or attributed character", is being legally acquired.
Fortunately for us, now we have Linux Genuine Advantage to validate Linux installations. I wonder how many of them are non-genuine...
That means of all the windows installs out there only 20% are pirated!
So here are the costs of WGA and Volume Activation 2.0:
Microsoft is going through development hassles distracting them from putting anything substantial in Vista (beyond a paint job).
Microsoft will put its paying customers through the anti-piracy wringer while pirates keep going on about their business.
Microsoft has created a potential security hole that can render a machine almost useless by a determined black-hat.
Microsoft may actually lose customers to Linux and Mac OS due to the hassles of activation and WGA.
Is this really worth it for a potential one-time 20% gain in sales? Microsoft still charges for support per incident - so there are no support losses due to piracy.
I don't get it.
-ted
How many of those "Pirated" copies would be bought if they were forced to pay as opposed to buying or installing an alternative to MS. I personaly have used photoshop in the past. When I was told I should buy a copy if I use it I just started using a free alternative. Adobe isn't loosing any money because I had a pirated copy of their software. Microsoft isn't loosing money from pirated copies of windows either.
What's MSFT's motivation to make WGA in any way accurate? They can squeeze the gray area installs for license revenue and fall back on their back-stabbing EULA when innocents get run over by the Genuine Advantage bulldozer. Most people don't have the time or know-how to fight them, they may have lost their receipts or any of a number of other reasons they might be legal but undocumented.
MSFT has absolutely no financial interest in making WGA accurate. They get more license revenue the same way DRM impaired music brings more revenue to online media sellers. Selling something to users that was already paid for. They have the added advantage of being able to waive the Piracy of Doom flag on Capitol Hill and in the media, then use that to make product activation and WGA even more draconian! What a racket! You have to hand it to them for being smart enough to prison rape their user base like that and get away with it. Damn clever.
That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
I wonder if Microsoft realizes that this could be a valuable metric on showing the supply and demand curves. If they see that 1 out of 5 (Ignoring the fact that WGA fails sometimes), that means 1 fifth of their customers want their product, however the price point is too high for them. Perhaps they will see that if they lower the price point they could increase sales, and more importantly if they manage these well they could increase sales without decreasing profitability.
I'm sure someone is looking at this, and this has most likely resulted in the 6 different flavors of windows vista.
This is my footer. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
How many licenses of Windows *didn't* the WGA get a chance to run on?
I've got more PCs than I can count (well, on one hand) and Bill has sold me a copies for Windows for each. The guy is ahead.
Now add the PCs that I've got Windows for that no longer run. Bill rigs the install so you can't transfer your license to another machine when it breaks, not legally and now not technically. These days they don't even give you a recovery CD/DVD, let alone an installation CD/DVD.
Sorry, Bill. Not impressed by you crying pour.
Again, more commentary on the machines I work with and what I have to deal with when validating computers for customers. First, Microsoft's tool was extremely inaccurate. There are a plethora of examples written about how wrong their tool accuracy was. Those examples were abounding on the internet just before Microsoft pulled the tool from the update server.
Here's a contributing problem. They had some problems validating Royal installs on machines such as those from Dell, Gateway, HP/Compaq.
Another contributing problem was that HP shipped tons of machines with only a recovery partition without any CDs. This meant that if the HDD when out the customer had to validate their install using the code on the sticker affixed to the side of the case. Often times these codes were not validated and the WGA tool would pop up telling me it was invalid.
In fact, when I tried to validate an install the other day I got various messages from Microsoft telling me that the code was invalid when it was taken directly from the case. Although this was not done reported by the WGA tool their activation tool told me repeatedly that the code was not valid, even after calling Microsoft to get the install activated.
Those numbers they are touting are completely and utterly wrong. They are attempting to gain emotional ground and support for their nefarious acts. They don't even care to try to be accurate because it simply makes their requirements easier to push down the throats of those of who believe these numbers inaccurate.
You can lead a man with reason but you can't make him think.
Mod all my posts Interesting AND Funny, and I'll see that you get ehm... legal.
That doesnt mean its not genuine.
I had a legit copy fail misreably at a customers site after they installed WGA to get their legally deserved updates.. To correct it i installed a pirated entrprise version. The 'genuine' sticker is still on the bottom of the laptop in case they are ever audited, but that number refuses to work with the cd that was shipped.
Go figure, it really pissed off the customer as neither the PC vendor nor Microsoft was of any help. Vendor: we dont support that. Microsoft: go buy another retail copy.
They now are looking into alternatives.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Our office had a series of Dell Optiplex desktops running Windows XP. A few of them start reporting as not genuine -- even though nothing had changed. Time was spent re-ghosting machines, talking to tech support, even calling Microsoft and reading the serial keys on the labels attached to the machine. (They give you a validation code to enter into the activation window to mark the PC as legitimate. It didn't work.) Through re-ghosting and disabling automatic Windows updates (which is in itself a headache) the machines got back to a usable state, but not after a good deal of time spent troubleshooting.
WGA is a tech support nightmare that treats its customers as criminals. I wouldn't be so against it worked.
The other ~77% were infected with worms, spyware, or viruses.
Anybody else enjoying the fun of W32.Spybot and its self-replicating variants?
Who did what now?
Well, Windows XP exploded with a BSOD and refused to boot, so I had to reinstall. My corporate edition didn't validate. So I tried the license that came with the machine, and that didn't work either.
I think WGA is great. The more Microsoft make Windows suck, the better. Bring on the self-disabling Vista!
GCHQ Quantum Insert installed. If only our tongues were made of glass, how much more careful we would be when we speak
I reformat my hard drive at least twice a year and always run into this gay problem! Not valid my ass! I bought my computer with it preinstalled... so I guess the rental OS wants to mess with ya. I replaced my hard drive on the same computer and once again I have an invalid copy... its a joke man. I refuse to by XP again just cuz I swap out hardware and the copy I was give is the whole "rental OS" Nope... screw off microsux... just screw off... you know your gay... you prey on those home users with no knowledge on how to crack your gayness!
How many really "non-genuine" copies actually try to pass WGA?
On the other hand, how many really "genuine" users don't download the updates, and therefore don't count for the "genuine" side?
advantage (d-vn'tj) pronunciation
n.
1. A beneficial factor or combination of factors.
2. Benefit or profit; gain: It is to your advantage to invest wisely.
3. A relatively favorable position; superiority of means: A better education gave us the advantage.
I have never seen the benefit for me of running WGA. Also, I have never profited from WGA. A successful validation means I have helped Microsoft profit, not me. So maybe there should be a clause that says "This software provides a genuine advantage for Microsoft, not the consumer"
I'm fairly certain that MS could tighten up a whole lot harder on non-genuine windows installs if it wanted to.
Thing is, I really doubt they want to do that.
There's millions of people out there that simply *will not* shell out hundreds of dollars for an operating system - especially not for each computer they own.
If these people were unable to run windows at all, they'd have to use something else. And that would mean millions more people creating a market for non-MS products. They might start using standards-compliant office software, and the people they exchange documents with would also have the option of not using MS Office. Big-ticket games might start being ported to platforms other than Windows.
All kinds of nasty things could snowball from that, from Microsoft's perspective.
Far better for Microsoft to let a percentage of individuals steal their OS, than to have them use something else.
I only wish that number were higher. I type this as I fight with ie7 css bullshit. For fuck sake MS - I can only wonder if the security fixes in ie7 are as good and "complete" as its css compliance.
Can't be, it would have to be about 70% higher in that case.
Great Intellect...
All of my stolen windows copies do not use WGA and updates just fine, method is
in hosts file
---
127.0.0.1 mpa.one.microsoft.com
---
and delete
Documents and Settings\All Users\Application Data\Windows Genuine Advantage\data\
working on corporate version, which do not require activation.
There are several methods of beating WGA, including above which i use, using legal windows key usually found on pirate windows disk, patch WGA somehow (patch available), download updates from windizupdate.com
So what i'm trying to say is that WGA is not a big annoyance for us, software thieves, and 22% of installs are not passing WGA does not say anything about windows piracy %, which is probably much higher where i live.
it's painful and happened to someone else. See 'America's Funniest Home Videos' as an example.
putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
With this many pirates, global warming should become a thing of the past!!
If I knew the wedgies I gave you back in 6th grade would have resulted in this . . . I might have taken a moments pause.
I wonder how many of those are Wine on Linux?
Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
As they imply >20% of Windows users are piratical criminals. MS might want to ask themselves why. Is it the high cost? Have they ever encouraged piracy? Didn't some MS honcho say they wanted people to steal MS software ... so that they would "get addicted, sort of like crack." Or is imitation simply the sincerest form of flattery?
...
... a bluff -or not? Are you feeling lucky? ;)
... on both sides. eom.
Be that as it may, taking MS and/or its flunky-goons at its word,
>22% of MS O/S users are criminals, who pirate their O/S.
Meanwhile, according to my crystal ball,
0% of Debian users pirate their O/S,
0% of Fedora users pirate their O/S,
0% of Slackware users pirate their O/S,
0% of FreeBSD users pirate their O/S.
OK, Ballmer, I know what you're thinking, "That Silver-dork mentioned five free O/Ss, does he have another one chambered, or was that it? I wanna kill that punk, I've killed [insert whatever] before and I'll kill him, too!"
So, Ballmer, was the
OK, mod me to oblivion now. People take this BS way too seriously
If you want your life to be different, live it differently.
Thankfully enough for windows it doesn't matter if your Genuine or not you can get around it by going to or Google firefox windows update.
I use firefox with windiz updates and it installs 0 WGA components =)
It probably does what most spyware does and submits the data as HTTP requests.
Good luck blocking that in a large corporate environment.
I'm using Parallels Desktop on my Mac Pro with a bought XP full license, and
every once in a while the OS in the VM will require reactivation when booted.
The first time I did this I went through the online activation, the second
time it wouldn't reactivate and I had to go through the Microsoft phone operator.
Now when it happens I just restore from a copy of the VM file and keep going. The
virtual machine environment should present the same hardward configuration and system ID
to the OS, shouldn't it?
-- Gary Goldberg KA3ZYW 301/249-6501 AIM:OgGreeb Digital Marketing Inc., Bowie, MD
... linux.
Anyone got numbers?
I mean that if the article is genuine then linux gets more genuine installs than windows.
That's got to have some marketing statement for linux in there somewhere...
Just use Auto Patcher
This is obviously a superbogus statistic. For this statistic to have any possible basis in reality you have to start by assuming that there actually exist more than 20% of Intel-based boxes that were shipped without Windows in the first place--then you can start worrying about the details. Except that when you look at the market numbers, you can already see that Microsoft is fluffing the figures.
My bet would be that Microsoft is using a very peculiar definition of improper installations that includes any deviation from any of the excruciatingly complex clauses of their amazing licenses. In accord with their own interpretations, of course. I'm sure it's right there in the EULA somewhere that Microsoft is the sole judge of compliance. Probably also multiple counting, or whatever else they can do to maximize their tragic loss.
In my own case, I confess that I certainly feel like Microsoft still owes me a couple of OSes that I supposedly paid for and didn't get much use out of. I can remember at least two cases. One was a copy of an English version of Windows that I wound up not using. I don't even remember the details, but I think it was purchased for an English-speaking friend with a crisis that went away, and then I kept if for double-booting when I was still working in customer support. Whatever the complicated story of those ancient days, I'm sure I wound up with nothing but a pretty box full of floppies. (Must have been 95 or 98? Possibly 3.1? I'm pretty sure it's still in a closet or box somewhere...)
The other case was more annoying and more recent, when I bought a brand new computer that was completely unstable under the original Windows OS as installed by the manufacturer. I'm sure it wasn't a pirate version, because it's a big name company. I don't blame them in particular (so I'll leave their name out of this) because all of the makers had problems with that version of Windows. However, I wound up paying over $100 for an upgrade version for that machine--but I wouldn't be a bit surprised if Microsoft counted it as a pirate installation. The machine is still alive, but probably too old, or the upgrade version was not appropriate, or who knows what excuse Microsoft has.
Freedom = (Meaningful - Coerced) Choice != (Speech | Beer^2), and sad sock puppets' bad mods avail them naught.
Mod parent up!
If I had points, I would mod you +5 sexy. Such a revealing post.
At least in this country, I find these numbers extremely hard to believe. Mostly because the vast majority of machines sold come with windows preinstalled on them. How do people then pirate it? I guess some people illegally upgrade their version to a newer one, but most people who have computers don't seem to know enough to be capable of doing this. There are the friends who might do this for them, but that doesn't seem too likely, as most people are content with their computer. . . As long as everything still works.
There's the key I guess. Most people don't care for their computer, and it shows, over time the install goes to hell, getting viruses spyware, etc. Then they may get a friend to come over and help them, and the friend may install a pirated version of windows, maybe a fancier one, maybe the same type (but not the same copy), or maybe even the same copy.
This is illegal . . . technically, but hard to really say it is, as the people do have the right to use windows on their computer, and that's often the only way they can.
With windows XP at least, I wouldn't doubt if more copies of it have been sold than their are copies currently in use! It seems like a crazy statement, but considering how many companies buy machines with windows preinstalled, and then install their site licensed copy on the machine. Plus how many people have had machines get outdated, or crippled, or break on them, and bought a new computer to replace it. How many copies of windows were thrown out because of that?
I can't speak for other countries, as I'm sure there are places where piracy runs rampant, and you can easily buy computers without windows preinstalled, or with an illegitimate copy installed, but in the US this generally isn't the case. Maybe MS should take these figures into account and say something like "-30% of windows copies in the US are pirated", after taking into account the anti-pirated cases of double licenses etc. Of course, things don't really work that way.
Now other software I imagine the number is much higher. What percentage of copies of office are less than legitimate? I imagine those are much higher, and a 20-30% install base being illegal wouldn't be too far off. of course, even here with so many copies sold to businesses, it dillutes the home market that's far more likely to pirate software than corporate ones (people can get in far less trouble generally).
Phil
The false positive rate on WGA is well-documents to be extremely high. Change out your video card? Nailed. NIC? Nailed. Windows hiccups? Nailed.
presumably someone has the snort rules to block the packets. Can't be that hard in an environment where you can share firewall rules.
Something just occurred to me...
[Sorry,car analogy]
If GM created a car that locked me out due to anti-theft features, and caused me to have to sit on a phone with some half-wit and explain and cajole that I actually bought my car and prove it somehow, would I accept that? Would anybody? Corporate I'P' c*cksuckers are reaping the benefits of customer ignorance and the industry status quo, and at the same time demanding I'P' protection in a way GM never would for their vehicles, when no one actually loses anything by supposed 'theft'. ie: They are reaping unusual benefits, compared to most markets, and demanding special protections, compared to most markets. If it had to come to it, I'd rather do without.
I clicked on the link in your sig and I have some constructive criticism to offer your company.
> Photoshop has 20+ layer modes. We offer 70+ at 10% the cost. [blackbeltsystems.com]
Wow is that web-page UGLY. You'd think that a company offering image manipulation software would know enough about imaging to not have such an ugly webpage. Especially annoying shit like
* blue text on two slightly different blue backgrounds for the navigation links
* metalled embossed hard to read fonts as headers
* "link-heavy" text with more links than text (put it into a list of feature links)
* multi-column text that goes off-page requiring "back-scrolling" to read
* juvenile snipes at vague competitors rather than professional and objective feature comparisons
* overuse of exclamation points! Especially in testimonials! No Really!
* prominent google ads for a site trying to sell commercial software
For punishment, I suggest you make your web-page designer navigate this site for an hour or two: http://corson.tv/main/buttugly.htm
That's cheaper than the church charges.
What church charges? I was under the impression it wasn't mandentory. They recommend a tithe which is close to what the government charges for what the church used to do. Government didn't used to have Social Security. The Tithe was for the church storehouse to feed widows and elderly. The Government has replaced that function which most churches no longer perform.
Offerings is for the operation of the church. It is seprate from the Tithe. Most churches haven't kept them seprate and no longer teach what the Tithe and offerings are for.
Remember, the Government (in the USA) has taken over the church Tithe. Offerings are a gift and not mandentory.
The same can not be said for a Windows License.
The truth shall set you free!
Checked your link and got this;
"Unsupported Browser
This free website allows users of Mozilla Firefox 0.9.3, Netscape 4.0, Mozilla Firebird 0.7, Opera 5, or K-Meleon 0.9, to keep their copy of Windows up-to-date. Newer releases of these browsers are also suitable.
If you're running Internet Explorer, please upgrade your browser. Choose from the links below:
You can't use the site with Internet Explorer. So much for supporting any browser! I'll have to check the link later at home.
The truth shall set you free!
I bought my copy legitmately in September 2005 and TODAY it tells me that my copy failed and is not genuine. What the F....... If I have to pay a dime to get it reinstated then I am FOREVER done with Windows.
Chinese count for 20% of world population. This is 1 out of five.
Maybe Computers will never be as intelligent as Humans.
For sure they won't ever become so stupid. [VR-1988]
Hi,
well... on my box, there's a perfectly legitimate installation of Windows XP (seldom used, though). The registration key belongs to a volume license from my (ex-)university. Guess what happened. Correct. The stupid genuine advantage tool thought that this was not a properly licensed installation. (By the way, I have never changed any of the hardware in there.)
So I called Microsoft. No one there, office hours... well, what the heck. I found some tool on the Web that removed the crap, and everything's fine again.
How come this company is still selling so much software when they continually insult their customers like this?
Bah.
Greetings,
Michael
Here's something I posted to a newsgroup this morning. I'm a developer and would definitely fit the power user mode. My experience getting a "free" upgrade to VISTA has been wonderful so far and is likely to sink further into the shitter.
----
One thing I received when I bought my new machine with a copy of XP Pro
OEM attached was a redemption card to upgrade to VISTA business. I
finally got around to filling it out today and what a hassle.
First you go online and fill out a form (complete with validation
errors that contain no text when you put a dash in the phone number -
nice touch that. Lucky I have experience testing software or it might
have taken a while to work it out). Of course you have to pay for
shipping (AUD22 and some cents) so then you fill out your credit card
details.
(I was expecting some charge but for $22 I can live with it and I've
already activated my current OS. Ironically unlike having to do it for
every game and addon ala FSX I think I'd just be stupid to turn down
this offer given that I'm a software professional and may well need to
use a VISTA machine for work. I don't plan on upgrading right awayeven
if it is tied to the one computer can dual boot when I need it).
That then gives you a confirmation page with a confirmation number. You
have to then "email, fax, or scan" your receipt and redemption card and
confirmation number to the company handling it (which isn't Microsoft.
Wonder what mailing lists I'll end up on next).
Let me tell you something - the redemption card, forms and instructions
are all very confusing...
- On the one hand there's the instruction to "mail, fax, or scan" the
receipt and redemption card, and on the other hand there is wording
that seems to imply that you have to mail or fax
- You also get a confirmation email. It says not to reply to the
confirmation email as it is not monitored. It then gives the exact same
email address as a contact address if you have a problem.
- The forms basically say if anything goes wrong or you don't provide
meet the requirements or follow instructions you forfeit the offer.
So anyway my confirmation form didn't show the state in my
shipping/billing address, but had the rest of my address details. I
also wanted to clarify if I should still mail in the redemption card.
The forms say to phone or email if there is a problem. I filled out the
form this morning, sent an email including my query about my address,
along with attached jpgs of the redemption card and my receitp. Well I
didn't expect an instant reply and I know I won't get my upgrade disk
for a while but I thought I should at least follow up on the email and
confirm that it got to them.
I called this afternoon to check that they'd gotten my email from this
morning. After the usual 20 minutes on hold with a very annoying and
irritating "your call is important to us" in a terse Asian accent that
sounded like it was coming from an official at a military training
college I finally got through to a human being. Well this human being
couldn't even check to see if they'd received the email, and couldn't
adjust my address details. She told me to wait for a reply to my email
which would take about a week. She also offered that if I faxed the
details through another college of hers could deal with it in 3 days
instead. I'll wait the week thanks. This is all just to get a
confirmation that they got my details and that I've done what I needed
to do.
So....I have no sympathy for Microsoft. If VISTA or FSX or any other MS
product falls on its arse as far I'm concerned, they need to take some
responsibility for making every damned interaction and product so
frustrating to deal with. It's not like MS products were ever
frustration free but it's definitely getting worse at least for me
personally.
The last time I dealt with them it was to get a cashback on my FS2004
discs. I got someone
These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
This instrument is not accurate. That being the case, their claims are not accurate. They should either increase the accuracy of their instrument, or drop their claims.
It's been a long time.
Last night I spent about 3 hours trying to get Microsoft to acknowledge and authorise my valid retail copy of Windows. I moved it from a VMware guest on Linux to a Parallels guest on OSX.
I had some drone with a shite command of the english language tell me that I was running too many copies. I explained that I had disabled the old one and was installing in a new place - she told me I had re-installed too many times.
In the end I just downloaded a VLK disk and found a VLK key that works. Pirating this shit is easier than owning it legitimately.
lol,
it appears no browser is supported.
I tried it with Firefox 2
...and that is all I have to say about that.
http://jessta.id.au
Okay, that explains the desktops of people who's jobs require web browsing.
But if HTTP requests to anywhere are getting out of any server in a company, I think their IT staff needs replacing.
I recently had to fix a HP laptop with a reinstall of XP they'd done only 1 month ago (from the supplied CDs and the XP key stuck to it) and yes WGA failed because it couldn't update itself with the latest version. It wouldn't login without a 5 second timer on the WGA warning and many, many popups.
It looked like spyware and other nasties were preventing some
...it depends on your point of view. If you are a Windows user your story doubtless evokes a lot of empathy from your fellows. If one is a Linux or OS.X user the original comment as well as your own story is quite simply funny because we don't have this problem so we can afford to indulge in a little Schadenfreude.
Only to idiots, are orders laws.
-- Henning von Tresckow
I know my copy of XP Pro isn't legit by any means. I didn't download it a friend from college a few years back gave me a copy (had SP1 integrated). I know it won't come up as legit if I install WGA, and I'd rather not have WGA lock down my PC. You'd think so close to Vista being out, XP prices would be cheaper but sadly, they are still $200+ at Walmart of all places for XP Home. I couldn't afford that much for a mainstream OS (that most applications need) back then and I still can't afford it now.
I think, one time, WGA did say I wasn't legit, kind of. Back in 05, remember the first workaround for WGA? Where you could just tell IE6 not to load the WGA pluggin, then go to the Windows Update site and update as usual? I think either they had fixed it at that one point or I forgot to turn it back off and I went to download a specific update it told me I wasn't licensed and to run WGA fully to figure out if my license was valid, luckily it never started any of that 5-10 second Startup/Shutdown wait times or popups/tray icons reminding me to buy XP.
The kicker is, the WGA program has sort of a discount service right? You tell them how and where you got your XP, they sell you a copy of XP at a much reduced price. Right, I got my copy off a guy I had 1 class with in college. He just happened to be a fellow tech/gaming geek like me. It's honestly been over 3 years since i've seen him, we never talked after college. Even if I could remember wtf his first name was I could definitely not tell you his last name, cause I never knew that. Irony there. Even if I wanted to man-up and tell WGA I'm fucked, here's who/what/how I did it, please sell me a copy cheaper, I couldn't. Somehow I doubt they'd believe the line of "A guy I once new, briefly in college, who's name I can't remember, gave me a copy of XP Pro w/ SP1 integrated"
Aw Frell this
In India I can guarantee 1 in 5 will be legitimate, if you are optimistic! Rest all are 'pirated'! Any computer vendor will provide you with umpteen no.s of WINDOWS CD!
It's been reported that 5 out of 5 Linx installations are genuine.
Linux = 1
Windows = zilch (as usual)
Ok, I'm not going to get into "mandentory"...BUT
I guess churches in your area still believe in Godly ways, but where I live you have to PAY for EVERYTHING. And sadly, I know of one couple who consistently tithed to their church for many years (yes, I really mean "gave 10% of their income to the church" kind of tithe!). Both lost their jobs, asked the church to help them not lose their house by making them a small loan, and were told basically to piss of, as they were not "needy" since they had given so much over the years. Nice and Christian-like, no?
Needless to say, they quite lost their "religion" over that one. They still help the needy, but not by going through any church...
...that this is part of the key to MS's success (any they either are naive or in denial about it).
The fact that Win95 was widely and easily pirated was the GIGANTIC leap for Windows becoming the dominant OS in the industry. OS/2 was much harder to pirate (or was simply not that common) and windows won by default, certainly not because it was better in a majority of ways.
The ubiquity of Windows-version OSs (due largely to piracy) has been Apple's strategy writ large: where Apple practically gives computers to educational establishments to get people 'hooked' on the system, Windows-by-sneakernet did the same thing ^2.
So as someone who's been a close observer of the OS marketplace since the early 80s, it's clear to me that if MSs ham-handed antipiracy strategies really HAVE reduced the pirate-install rate to 22% (or lower, since I agree with most of the posters that most of that 22% is WGA failing for other reasons), that tells me that within a computer generation or two, MS will have to finally compete on its merits because new users won't just build their learning curve on MS OSs as default anymore.
-Styopa
The number of non-genuine installs of windows is probably a lot higher. People who knowingly installed a pirate copy of Windows probably avoided automatic updates after Microsoft announced they were launching the Genuine Advantage Program so as to avoid the popups that WGA would pop up on their screen. Presumably anyone who knows enough about computers to install a pirated version of windows knows enough to not install MS Spyware.
Sounds strange. My experience with drastic system change (I replaced a mobo, RAM, video card, tv tuner, and a sound card, all at the same time on one computer) was not like what you mentioned. XP told me to reactivate (understandable in my situation), and it worked on first try.
So yeah, they say 1 fifth are non-genuine. That's rubbish! They've collected these stats from people who try and activate their copy of windows and fail, but most people out there, if they've got a dodgy copy of windows they're hardly going to try and activate it are they!? That's what the cracks are for!!!
Growing up in the Industry, and now running my own PC repair and service business, I read with some interest all the comments concerning WGA and Windows Activation. I too use to offer a Pirated Version of XP Pro to my customers that lost their original CD installation or Restore disk when their PC would become too infected with Spyware and Virus so that the original image was destroyed. After battling MS with various generations of hacks to defeat this affliction I simply gave up offering this option. Most PC owners are clueless to what makes their machines operate. When I tell them they are going to have to buy another license, they usually shrug their shoulders and buy another preloaded machine. The Back Up Restore Partition offered by some manufactures is a laugh. By the time somebody calls me to work on their machine, this is no longer an option as this back up is completely destroyed by malware and virii.
No, I'm not joking.
I don't know what church they go to. The one I go to bends over backwards to help in situations like that. We even maintaine a seperate fund to help out with bills and expenses for lossed due to fire, theft, death, and loss of employemnt. We even have our own counseling and prayer team for just such emergencies. We even help friends and relatives of our attendees. We believe in sharing Christ's love!
Athiesm is a religion like not collecting stamps is a hobby.
I wonder if this counts the 5 times I've reinstalled Windows XP on my 3+ year old Alienware because of viruses. If they only allow a limited number of reinstalls, I guess I'm "not genuine" by this point. >:-(
On the positive side, my wife's laptop is only up to its 3rd reinstall.
(-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
I didn't have the heart to install a proprietary closed source operating system when I'm running the equivelent of redhat enterprise linux. In short i decided not to lock myself in to an inferior platform. The cost of microsoft, far outweighs it's benifits, even if it's a pirated copy.
I have had several machines come with WGA errors and the only thing wrong with them was that the date was set ahead of the current date. If this is all it takes to make a Windows installation invalid something is wrong.
Who ever suggested that it could be used with just "any browser"?
It's not perfect, but it works damn well. Faster, easier, etc., than Microsoft's W.U.
Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
It works perfectly well with Firefox 2. I may have to revoke your geek license for not being able to master installing of a browser add-on.
Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
Did I just read that right? Someone please correct me, but wasting the time of millions of paying customers isn't "many"?
Seriously, I must have missed something, he said that way too casually for me to have understood correctly.
Needless to say? People have maintained faith through far greater insults than this. Christianity isn't a credit union or a fraternity or an insurance policy. It is far less important for a Christian church to reach out to another Christian than it is for it to reach out to those who have not established faith in God. It's easy enough to understand the desperation of your friends and their false sense of entitlement, but it's sad to hear that their commitment to organized religion is on par with the average consumer's commitment to their local bank.
I don't know what church they go to. The one I go to bends over backwards to help in situations like that.
There shouldn't be any other kind.
I am glad to hear there are a few real Christian Churches left.
Those who don't follow the example are an embaressment to christianity everywhere. A template of a poor church was will played in the movie "Oh God" with John Denver and George Burns. It was a great movie and showed the shallowness of many churches.
The church I grew up in had to deal with panhandlers and those just looking for an easy buck. To sort out the needy from the frauds and those down and out by choice, the church simply had vouchers good at a local hotel good for meals and an overnight stay. It worked out well and it is a church I could in good heart support. The needy had help when they needed it. Only a few of the vouchers were redeemed for meals or a stay. If it was needed they would have used it. Sometimes they would arrange to pay someone's electric or oil heating bill. (rural, not on gas yet)
The church I attend now is assembling lunch boxes to give to the homeless and panhandlers on the freeway onramps. Instead of cash for booze, we fill the hunger need as requested. This is one of many programs we support.
It's another church I can support. What does your church do for the community and those in need? Helping the elderly and widows is a function of the Christian Church. Have you considered carrying a lunch sack for a panhandler on the corner instead of giving them money?
The biblical church had a storehouse for food, not a bank for money. In the old testimate in the story of Joseph and his brothers, they went to go get stored grain, not money. The tithe was a portion of the harvest.
The truth shall set you free!
I suspect the sum of passes and failures is still less than the number of copies MS has received payment for. It would be ridiculous of them to imply losses from piracy in that case.