The point of high-level math and physics classes is not because you "need" them in your job as a programmer. It's a way to limit how many CSE degrees are granted. I was told this straight-up by my college advisor...
Then like some advisors he is a dumb-a**. I've been offered some pretty crappy advice and insight from advisors, don't take what they say too seriously.
You are basically getting into the trade school vs university argument. A trade school can produce as good a programmer as a university. The point of the university is to provide a more well rounded education so that a person has more options.
I too had some chemistry, physics and years of math that appeared to serve no purpose other than to "weed out" people from the program. However to my surprise I once had the opportunity to participate in a project that would port some chemistry software from mainframes to PCs. I would be interacting with world class polymer chemists. They did not expect me to be a chemist but they did expect me to be scientifically and mathematically literate. The general ed chemistry and physics and the years of math for computer science actually turned out to be useful.
From an objective standpoint these are among the worst programming jobs in existence
Yes and no. It depends entirely on the company you work for.
the kids won't actually get to design the games – that's done by completely different teams of people. They're just coding to spec
No. There is a lot of feedback and interaction between designers and developers. At the good companies the "design" comes from individuals of varying backgrounds and roles, including programmers, including QA. Things depend far more on the quality of your suggestions than your job description.
I've gone all the way up to calculus 3 (vectors, multi-dimensional functions, and doing differentials and integrals therein) and I've yet to see calculus applied by any programming. I am curious how one actually implements it though, in what (limited) programming I've done, I haven't seen any clear way to calculate say an integral using something like c++ or c#.
One example. Think back to class and there should have been a discussion on the approximation of integrals. Creating rectangles or trapezoids for subintervals that fit "under" the curve. Using the area of these subintervals to approximate the area under the curve. The more subintervals the more accurate the approximation. Its not hard to match the precision of the floating point hardware in the CPU.
Your standard business application probably isn't going to use much more than basic algebra
I used more advanced mathematics in graduate level marketing classes than in graduate level computer science classes. I was quite surprised and happy to see that marketing can be based on scientific modeling and not just numbers pulled out of... uh... the air.
But it all depends on the needs of the business you are trying to support.
The problem is that when you are in college you do not know the "needs" you will be trying to support in the future. I was once unexpectedly offered the chance to port some of Dow Chemical's polymer analysis software from mainframe to PC. I was working directly with world class chemists. They did not expect me to be a chemist but they did expect me to be scientifically and mathematically literate. Those two quarters of freshman chemistry for general ed and the three years of math for computer science were useful. It opened doors that would otherwise have been closed. That is the point of a university education rather than a trade school education. The trade school can teach a person to be a good programmer, just as good as a university, but the trade school graduate won't have the option to participate in unexpected projects like the one mentioned.
That is a typo of some sort. The Mac version of Diablo 1 was released long after the original PC version. It was Diablo 2 where the Mac version showed up soon after the PC version.
Suffice to say that I have about 6 years of professional experience.
10+ years here, and that's not counting pre-historic 8- and 16-bit days.
My current company is a fairly large cross platform developer. Unfortunately, we have to support Mac OS.
Cross platform here too.
The problem is that their archaic implementation of OpenGL is barely capable of running last generation console games.
There is the difference. Porting from Windows vs porting from console. What I hear from the current Mac dev guys is generally complaints related to bugs. Bugs that are reported, not fixed patch after patch, bugs they have to work around depending on the specific video chipset.
Games don't generally require the latest hardware and software. Developers usually want to support anything sold in the last few years.
I think most developers would prefer that Apple fix bugs and inconsistencies in the older versions of OpenGL (and video drivers) rather than implement the latest OpenGL. In other words I think many developers would say Apple is behind in bug fixes not new features.
Translation; I'm an Apple fanboy and frequently string bunches of words together in shallow and lame attempts to defend Apple's retarded and idiotic positions.
Guess again. I worked at a game developer for years, including the Mac development side. I am a bit familiar with the process of deciding minimum system requirements. My friends who deal with OpenGL on Mac on a nearly daily basis complain of bugs not a lack of features.
Just curious, but you consider someone complaining about problems with the current OpenGL implementation on Mac to be a fanboy? That's a pretty interesting perspective you have there.
Games don't generally require the latest hardware and software. Developers usually want to support anything sold in the last few years.
I think most developers would prefer that Apple fix bugs and inconsistencies in the older versions of OpenGL (and video drivers) rather than implement the latest OpenGL. In other words I think many developers would say Apple is behind in bug fixes not new features.
That is my whole point! We shouldn't be looking to what is "natural" we should do what makes us happy. I am not saying you shouldn't eat meat if that is what you want, but don't tell people that it is necessary to be healthy then deride them for their personal choices.
That would be no problem since I am not saying that. What I am saying is that (1) Lets not pretend that meat is not a very important food source for our species and (2) Careful and well informed planning seems to be absolutely necessary for a purely vegetarian lifestyle. This lifestyle runs contrary to our biology and takes some care to accommodate.
You need to check your facts, buddy. Are you aware of the numerous communities that live their entire lives, cradle-to-grave, without ever eating meat? Some of them live right here in America! Like the Seventh day Adventist sect of Christianity.
Sorry for this second post but I forgot to mention previously that my mother was raised in that church and its vegetarian lifestyle. However when pregnant she indulged in the dietary cravings that she was experiencing and had some steaks and burgers. According to her this is not uncommon, although done very discretely to avoid the social stigma. She and other women of the church decided to trust their "god-given instincts" over a "man's interpretation of scripture". Vegetarianism is after all only recommended by the church.
Cradle-to-grave may not be as common as you think.
If you've got any information that suggests that meat was or is essential to brain development I'd like to see it.
The argument is that meat was key to the brain's evolution, its increase in size and capability during the evolution of our species. I am not discussing the growth/development of a particular brain. Its certainly possible to develop a healthy brain with a vegetarian lifestyle, its just more difficult to do so since one is fighting biology to a degree.
You need to check your facts, buddy. Are you aware of the numerous communities that live their entire lives, cradle-to-grave, without ever eating meat? Some of them live right here in America! Like the Seventh day Adventist sect of Christianity.
Guess again. One of my grandfathers is Seventh Day Adventist and I've spent many a weekend at his house enjoying vegetarian food. I will confess that I think Indian culture offers the best vegetarian dishes.
That said, a purely vegetarian lifestyle is contrary to human evolution. It takes very careful research and planning to go that route. As others have pointed out it helps when coming from a "tribal knowledge/culture" environment. However that does not change the fact that it is an unnatural act, biologically speaking, that takes careful planning to accommodate.
The vegetarian/vegan forums are all full of people who go on a fad vegan diet and end up not feeling well or having other issues because they did not adjust their diet properly
I have a vegetarian friend who goes that path for health reasons, not religion, politics nor philosophy. Once every month or two he "surprises" us (coworkers) by eating meat at lunch. He explained that when he feels his body is a little off he understands that there may be a nutritional imbalance. He understands that a meat free lifestyle is not natural for our species, its not the environment we evolved in. So he does the practical and natural thing. On extremely rare occasions he may try a meat dish out of curiosity. For example when working in the US Gulf Coast region he tried alligator with the rest of us.
Another friend is purely vegetarian. However he comes from a society that has a long history of vegetarianism and as another poster mentioned, such "tribal wisdom" is of great benefit when planning/implementing a vegetarian diet. This friend is strong and healthy, healthy as in he is a marathon runner.
Careful and well informed planning seems to be absolutely necessary for a purely vegetarian lifestyle.
Yet, veggie meals are more environmental friendly, more healthy, easier to digest, cheaper, more energy efficient.
Veggies may be more efficient to grow but they are less efficient as fuel for the human body and mind. It was meat that enabled our brains to grow and to become the species we are today.
Eating habits need to change but lets not pretend that meat is not a very important food source for our species.
Land Lobsters.(They're both arthropods) Then you can charge a premium for them.
I think that would complete the circle. Lobsters used to be called the cockroaches of the sea. They were considered just barely good enough to give to your slaves.
IIRC...
There were actually laws in the Massachusetts Bay colony limiting how often you could feed your servants lobster. Are they still on the books?
Lobsters were heavily harvested but were often used as fertilizer for the fields.
At some point someone applied butter heavily, served it to the queen, she said she liked it and things changed virtually overnight. The trash food of the lowest "class" became gourmet.
This still happens today. My grandfather grew up in Italy poor and hungry. He laughs a little when looking at the menu in Italian restaurants in the U.S. today. Some of the featured and expensive dishes offered are quite literally the meals he was mocked for eating as a child by the kids from wealthier families.
The reason why gaming on Linux isn't taking of is because of politics, not a technical reason like with DOS/Windows.
Its economics not politics. Linux gamers dual boot or run under Wine. If they are already buying the Windows version there is no motivation for a developer to create a Linux version. Basically the Wine developers make a Windows to Linux port unnecessary, at least for the higher profile games.
I remember a time when people used to say DOS is the gaming platform of choice. Windows? Good enough for shitty-looking Reversi and Solitaire, but not much else.
Yes, they said that when Windows was just an optional thing sitting on top of DOS.
Then Windows became the gaming platform of choice. Sounds familiar?
Yes, immediately after it went 32-bit and became its own operating system, in 1995. One year later in 1996 we had best selling games like Diablo coming out, Windows only, and setting record sales.
What I mean is, if Linux is to becomes a good gaming platform, someone has to get the ball rolling.
Problem is they started trying to get that ball rolling back in the 1990s.
So you failed 10 years ago? Big deal. It's been a long time since then. Things change.
Yeah. Direct3D has gotten better than OpenGL. Popular Windows games run very well under Wine, sometimes faster than under Windows. What change there has been seems counterproductive in terms of native Linux gaming. The Windows versions seems to serve Linux gamers quite well.
They used to say the same thing about MacOS gaming too.
When MacOS ran on a different CPU and emulation was impractical because the CPU instruction set had to be emulated not just an operating system API. So the situation was quite different.
Marketting research tells you who wants to buy your stuff.
Not entirely. More importantly, market research also tells you what people who are not buying your products want or need. Getting feedback from people who do not choose your products can be more important than feedback from your customers.
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The point of high-level math and physics classes is not because you "need" them in your job as a programmer. It's a way to limit how many CSE degrees are granted. I was told this straight-up by my college advisor ...
Then like some advisors he is a dumb-a**. I've been offered some pretty crappy advice and insight from advisors, don't take what they say too seriously.
You are basically getting into the trade school vs university argument. A trade school can produce as good a programmer as a university. The point of the university is to provide a more well rounded education so that a person has more options.
I too had some chemistry, physics and years of math that appeared to serve no purpose other than to "weed out" people from the program. However to my surprise I once had the opportunity to participate in a project that would port some chemistry software from mainframes to PCs. I would be interacting with world class polymer chemists. They did not expect me to be a chemist but they did expect me to be scientifically and mathematically literate. The general ed chemistry and physics and the years of math for computer science actually turned out to be useful.
From an objective standpoint these are among the worst programming jobs in existence
Yes and no. It depends entirely on the company you work for.
the kids won't actually get to design the games – that's done by completely different teams of people. They're just coding to spec
No. There is a lot of feedback and interaction between designers and developers. At the good companies the "design" comes from individuals of varying backgrounds and roles, including programmers, including QA. Things depend far more on the quality of your suggestions than your job description.
I've gone all the way up to calculus 3 (vectors, multi-dimensional functions, and doing differentials and integrals therein) and I've yet to see calculus applied by any programming. I am curious how one actually implements it though, in what (limited) programming I've done, I haven't seen any clear way to calculate say an integral using something like c++ or c#.
One example. Think back to class and there should have been a discussion on the approximation of integrals. Creating rectangles or trapezoids for subintervals that fit "under" the curve. Using the area of these subintervals to approximate the area under the curve. The more subintervals the more accurate the approximation. Its not hard to match the precision of the floating point hardware in the CPU.
Your standard business application probably isn't going to use much more than basic algebra
I used more advanced mathematics in graduate level marketing classes than in graduate level computer science classes. I was quite surprised and happy to see that marketing can be based on scientific modeling and not just numbers pulled out of ... uh ... the air.
But it all depends on the needs of the business you are trying to support.
The problem is that when you are in college you do not know the "needs" you will be trying to support in the future. I was once unexpectedly offered the chance to port some of Dow Chemical's polymer analysis software from mainframe to PC. I was working directly with world class chemists. They did not expect me to be a chemist but they did expect me to be scientifically and mathematically literate. Those two quarters of freshman chemistry for general ed and the three years of math for computer science were useful. It opened doors that would otherwise have been closed. That is the point of a university education rather than a trade school education. The trade school can teach a person to be a good programmer, just as good as a university, but the trade school graduate won't have the option to participate in unexpected projects like the one mentioned.
That is a typo of some sort. The Mac version of Diablo 1 was released long after the original PC version. It was Diablo 2 where the Mac version showed up soon after the PC version.
Suffice to say that I have about 6 years of professional experience.
10+ years here, and that's not counting pre-historic 8- and 16-bit days.
My current company is a fairly large cross platform developer. Unfortunately, we have to support Mac OS.
Cross platform here too.
The problem is that their archaic implementation of OpenGL is barely capable of running last generation console games.
There is the difference. Porting from Windows vs porting from console. What I hear from the current Mac dev guys is generally complaints related to bugs. Bugs that are reported, not fixed patch after patch, bugs they have to work around depending on the specific video chipset.
Games don't generally require the latest hardware and software. Developers usually want to support anything sold in the last few years.
Ah, I see somebody has decided to begin talking out of his asshole.
Guess again. For example Mac Diablo 3 minimum system requirements:
Mac OS X 10.6.8
Intel Core 2 Duo
2 GB RAM
Games don't generally require the latest hardware and software. Developers usually want to support anything sold in the last few years. I think most developers would prefer that Apple fix bugs and inconsistencies in the older versions of OpenGL (and video drivers) rather than implement the latest OpenGL. In other words I think many developers would say Apple is behind in bug fixes not new features.
Translation; I'm an Apple fanboy and frequently string bunches of words together in shallow and lame attempts to defend Apple's retarded and idiotic positions.
Guess again. I worked at a game developer for years, including the Mac development side. I am a bit familiar with the process of deciding minimum system requirements. My friends who deal with OpenGL on Mac on a nearly daily basis complain of bugs not a lack of features.
Just curious, but you consider someone complaining about problems with the current OpenGL implementation on Mac to be a fanboy? That's a pretty interesting perspective you have there.
Games don't generally require the latest hardware and software. Developers usually want to support anything sold in the last few years.
I think most developers would prefer that Apple fix bugs and inconsistencies in the older versions of OpenGL (and video drivers) rather than implement the latest OpenGL. In other words I think many developers would say Apple is behind in bug fixes not new features.
I used to live in Argentina and knew a lot of Italian immigrants. Perchance are you referring to polenta and gnocchi?
I think the restaurant's special of the day was Pasta Fagioli when I heard that story.
My grandmother made all of the above. Great stuff, gnocchi was my favorite.
My grandfather mentioned some of "the family" emigrated to Argentina rather than the U.S.
The amount of people in line is eerily similar with each product launch, how many of these people are the same and what is their association to Apple?
Or maybe the same early adopters line up for upgrades each time. No conspiracy theory necessary.
Much like the same people line up to buy [insert appropriate video game franchise name here] at midnight on launch day.
We haven't gotten smarter- just sicker.
And yet we live much, much, longer....
Medical science has outpaced our bad habits.
That is my whole point! We shouldn't be looking to what is "natural" we should do what makes us happy. I am not saying you shouldn't eat meat if that is what you want, but don't tell people that it is necessary to be healthy then deride them for their personal choices.
That would be no problem since I am not saying that. What I am saying is that (1) Lets not pretend that meat is not a very important food source for our species and (2) Careful and well informed planning seems to be absolutely necessary for a purely vegetarian lifestyle. This lifestyle runs contrary to our biology and takes some care to accommodate.
You need to check your facts, buddy. Are you aware of the numerous communities that live their entire lives, cradle-to-grave, without ever eating meat? Some of them live right here in America! Like the Seventh day Adventist sect of Christianity.
Sorry for this second post but I forgot to mention previously that my mother was raised in that church and its vegetarian lifestyle. However when pregnant she indulged in the dietary cravings that she was experiencing and had some steaks and burgers. According to her this is not uncommon, although done very discretely to avoid the social stigma. She and other women of the church decided to trust their "god-given instincts" over a "man's interpretation of scripture". Vegetarianism is after all only recommended by the church.
Cradle-to-grave may not be as common as you think.
The "normal" diet is culturally based around meat ...
I'd say the opposite is true. A diet including meat is consistent with our biology. The vegetarian diet would seem to be culturally based.
Wearing clothes, shaving, drinking the milk of other mammals, those are not natural things.
The farming necessary to sustain a vegetarian lifestyle is as unnatural as those things.
If you've got any information that suggests that meat was or is essential to brain development I'd like to see it.
The argument is that meat was key to the brain's evolution, its increase in size and capability during the evolution of our species. I am not discussing the growth/development of a particular brain. Its certainly possible to develop a healthy brain with a vegetarian lifestyle, its just more difficult to do so since one is fighting biology to a degree.
You need to check your facts, buddy. Are you aware of the numerous communities that live their entire lives, cradle-to-grave, without ever eating meat? Some of them live right here in America! Like the Seventh day Adventist sect of Christianity.
Guess again. One of my grandfathers is Seventh Day Adventist and I've spent many a weekend at his house enjoying vegetarian food. I will confess that I think Indian culture offers the best vegetarian dishes.
That said, a purely vegetarian lifestyle is contrary to human evolution. It takes very careful research and planning to go that route. As others have pointed out it helps when coming from a "tribal knowledge/culture" environment. However that does not change the fact that it is an unnatural act, biologically speaking, that takes careful planning to accommodate.
The vegetarian/vegan forums are all full of people who go on a fad vegan diet and end up not feeling well or having other issues because they did not adjust their diet properly
I have a vegetarian friend who goes that path for health reasons, not religion, politics nor philosophy. Once every month or two he "surprises" us (coworkers) by eating meat at lunch. He explained that when he feels his body is a little off he understands that there may be a nutritional imbalance. He understands that a meat free lifestyle is not natural for our species, its not the environment we evolved in. So he does the practical and natural thing. On extremely rare occasions he may try a meat dish out of curiosity. For example when working in the US Gulf Coast region he tried alligator with the rest of us.
Another friend is purely vegetarian. However he comes from a society that has a long history of vegetarianism and as another poster mentioned, such "tribal wisdom" is of great benefit when planning/implementing a vegetarian diet. This friend is strong and healthy, healthy as in he is a marathon runner.
Careful and well informed planning seems to be absolutely necessary for a purely vegetarian lifestyle.
Yet, veggie meals are more environmental friendly, more healthy, easier to digest, cheaper, more energy efficient.
Veggies may be more efficient to grow but they are less efficient as fuel for the human body and mind. It was meat that enabled our brains to grow and to become the species we are today.
Eating habits need to change but lets not pretend that meat is not a very important food source for our species.
Land Lobsters.(They're both arthropods) Then you can charge a premium for them.
I think that would complete the circle. Lobsters used to be called the cockroaches of the sea. They were considered just barely good enough to give to your slaves.
IIRC ...
There were actually laws in the Massachusetts Bay colony limiting how often you could feed your servants lobster. Are they still on the books?
Lobsters were heavily harvested but were often used as fertilizer for the fields.
At some point someone applied butter heavily, served it to the queen, she said she liked it and things changed virtually overnight. The trash food of the lowest "class" became gourmet.
This still happens today. My grandfather grew up in Italy poor and hungry. He laughs a little when looking at the menu in Italian restaurants in the U.S. today. Some of the featured and expensive dishes offered are quite literally the meals he was mocked for eating as a child by the kids from wealthier families.
A platform suited to playing the newest DRM games? They should call it Windows.
No. Call it "Portals". "Windows" is already trademarked.
The reason why gaming on Linux isn't taking of is because of politics, not a technical reason like with DOS/Windows.
Its economics not politics. Linux gamers dual boot or run under Wine. If they are already buying the Windows version there is no motivation for a developer to create a Linux version. Basically the Wine developers make a Windows to Linux port unnecessary, at least for the higher profile games.
I remember a time when people used to say DOS is the gaming platform of choice. Windows? Good enough for shitty-looking Reversi and Solitaire, but not much else.
Yes, they said that when Windows was just an optional thing sitting on top of DOS.
Then Windows became the gaming platform of choice. Sounds familiar?
Yes, immediately after it went 32-bit and became its own operating system, in 1995. One year later in 1996 we had best selling games like Diablo coming out, Windows only, and setting record sales.
What I mean is, if Linux is to becomes a good gaming platform, someone has to get the ball rolling.
Problem is they started trying to get that ball rolling back in the 1990s.
So you failed 10 years ago? Big deal. It's been a long time since then. Things change.
Yeah. Direct3D has gotten better than OpenGL. Popular Windows games run very well under Wine, sometimes faster than under Windows. What change there has been seems counterproductive in terms of native Linux gaming. The Windows versions seems to serve Linux gamers quite well.
They used to say the same thing about MacOS gaming too.
When MacOS ran on a different CPU and emulation was impractical because the CPU instruction set had to be emulated not just an operating system API. So the situation was quite different.
Marketting research tells you who wants to buy your stuff.
Not entirely. More importantly, market research also tells you what people who are not buying your products want or need. Getting feedback from people who do not choose your products can be more important than feedback from your customers.