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Apple Comes Clean, Admits To Doing Market Research
colinneagle writes "In an interview with Fortune a few years ago, Steve Jobs explained that Apple never does market research. Rather, they simply preoccupy themselves with creating great products. On Monday, Apple's Greg Joswiak — the company's VP of Product Marketing — submitted a declaration to the Court explaining why documents relating to Apple's market research and strategy should be sealed. Every month, Apple surveys iPhone buyers and Joswiak explains what Apple is able to glean from these surveys. And as you might expect, Apple conducts similar surveys with iPad buyers. Apple wants all of these tracking studies sealed. Joswiak explains that if a competitor were to find out what drives iPhone purchases — whether it be FaceTime, battery life, or Siri — it would serve as an unfair competitive edge to rival companies. Further, competitors, as it stands today, have to guess as to which demographics are most satisfied with Apple products."
A few other interesting facts have come out of the trial so far; Apple spent $647 million advertising the iPhone in the U.S. from its launch through fiscal 2011, and they spent $457.2 million advertising the iPad from its launch up to the same point.
Obviously, since he died, this new generation of Apple leaders have lost their way. They need to turn back to Steve before it's too late and realize that only through him can they find the correct path. And that path is not through market research, it's through listening to Steve's own words and letting them into your heart.
Put the executives in a room with a glass and a board of letters. Watch the magic happen as the late Mr. Jobs tells them what to do next.
>> Joswiak explains that if a competitor were to find out what drives iPhone purchases â" whether it be FaceTime, battery life, or Siri â" it would serve as an unfair competitive edge
Hint: It's that patented rectangular shape.
Not only was he megalomaniac, but a liar too. Who knew?
Yeah, right. Marketting research tells you who wants to buy your stuff. If they haddn't bothered with it, Apple would have died back when they finished burning their original funding on beer, weed, and pizza in Steve's garage.
Understanding the scope of the problem is the first step on the path to true panic.
Rich people lie.
I hear rumors that water is wet, as well.
Beta sux! Join the Slashcott! http://hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=4760465&cid=46173047
Once again, Apple afraid of a little competition, the same reason the sue everyone and their dog.
iMarket, therefore iAm
My ism, it's full of beliefs.
Marketting research tells you who wants to buy your stuff.
Not entirely. More importantly, market research also tells you what people who are not buying your products want or need. Getting feedback from people who do not choose your products can be more important than feedback from your customers.
Obviously, Steve meant market research for future products. The article describes a survey of existing customers, and I've gotten them before. While this plays a part in product development, they don't use focus groups. It's one of those things where, if Apple asked outside people (not customers), "what do you want in a phone," they'd end-up with a terrible product. Instead, they make the phone they, themselves want to use. As they've stated in their conference calls, they only enter markets where they think they can improve things. One example is student information systems. They sold PowerSchool to Pierson, exiting that market because they felt they couldn't do a killer product there. It's so obvious how they work; the only mystery is what future products will be. They keep those under wraps because, if they decide to scrap it or change it dramatically, there won't be a Microsoft-CES-announcement-style embarrassment. As the Samsung court documents show, they have hundreds of iterations of products that never see the light of day.
Jo[b]s/W[ozn]iak? Coincidence?
the fuck cares.
let's see them try to justify using slave labour.
I chewed a piece of gum yesterday.
Apple's competitors already know what drives IPhone/IPad sales. Yes, Apple's numbers are more authoritative, but 3rd party survey firms provide decent results. Why would consumer opinion be a secret? Especially to firms with billions to gain or lose on their attitudes.
Apple is arguing that their documents are basically trade secrets and hence should be protected by/from the court. I imagine that $600M marketing figure is "Movie studio finance". You know when a studio gets sued over a $500M blockbuster, that movie's reported on the books as a loss. Apple has to show that they've put a lot of money in building their market position. The more they show, the more likely they'll get higher damages. The lawyers aren't going to perjure themselves, but they will be creative as to what falls under 'Marketing'.
Samsung, I'm guessing, will argue that to defend themselves they'll need more specifics relating to how Apple spent all that marketing money. I'm also guessing they'll take a swipe at actual trade secrets whilst they're at it.
Personally, I don't think Apple should have it's cake and eat it to. If you're going to ask for $2B+ in damages, partly substantiated by the $600M you spent then you should have to show how that money was spent ( within reason ). But It'll be interesting how Koh decides this.
They're not calling this case 'Samsung vs. Koh' for nothing.
Wow, the formerly squeaky clean image of Apple seems to be crumbling away before our very eyes.
And it's as anticlimactic as the cough syrup in Flaming Moes... they buy it because it has an Apple logo on it. The logo itself is a status symbol.
-uso.
What you hear in the ear, preach from the rooftop Matthew 10.27b
Joswiak? Sounds like Jobs + Wozniak.
A Toyota owner and Apple owner feel is made to feel superior by the marketing and hype surrounding their purchase. Don't get me wrong there is nothing wrong with being more expensive, but the majority reason for Apple and Toyota success is not superior tech. It is the age old cache of being trendy, as the Toyota and Apple products are not necessarily superior to the competition but they are definitely better marketed and sold. The end result is higher resale value for the consumer which is great until the market becomes saturated and the resale price plummets as witness what has happened in the PC and auto markets.
For instance I can purchase an off lease GMC pickup truck 30-40% below the used price of a similarly equipped Toyota truck. And if I want to sell a 2 year old Mac Book pro I can at least expect to get 700 bucks where with a 2 year old HP or Dell of similar specs I am lucky if I get 200 bucks!
So trendy and exclusive sells, and also re-sells well. In a few years when the market is completely flooded with used Ipads and Mac Books and Toyota trucks then things will be different. I predict that in future an Ipad 3 will resell for peanuts the same way PC Laptops now do because the sales are high. Apple would be smart to not flood the market because if the 3 is as good as they hype it up to be then the next generation might not sell unless they do something really radical again, and from a consumers point of view why buy new if the new has nothing new to offer other than cache.
Using it as Apple is saying here, to survey users, is one thing. It helps gather info on actual uses, usage patterns, customer feedback.
Using it to design a product or to test a product design, is quite another, especially if, like often, it ends up justifying half-baked committee-think. Apple forte has been Steve Job's "I'm the customer, please me" stance, which is far superior to the "Make none of us dislike it too much" design-by committee version. It requires strong leadership. Apple had that, and storng value too: sexiness and easse of use.
As an Android user, I wish, I wish Google did more user surveys. There are a handful of very easy changes that would make Android rock, observably so, including in the shop right next to an iPad.
The Cloud - because you don't care if your apps and data are up in the air.
Instead, they make the phone they, themselves want to use.
What Steve himself wanted to use.
FTFY
Set your phasers on "funky"!
How is market research relevant to patent squabbles?
OT: A still open question, how much credit belongs to Jobs? (Has it been documented?) Fans will dismiss the market research as a curse, blasphemy, when perhaps they should be happy about it? Any part of the process that did not require Job's input can be reproduced, and would mean the company could continue its happy, profitable path.
My iPad 1st gen's battery lasts a lot when I use it, and a hell of a lot more if I leave it sitting there. I play a game once a week, and I need the battery life then. Don't want to pause to charge. After that, I leave it on my desk an use it very lightly. I recharge it once a month. I'm having trouble getting devices that last a week in standby and more than 3 hours of use (or about 1 hour on wi-fi) - exception: Samsung Galaxy Apollo - 2 weeks in standby on 3G, 4 days with wi-fi on - but my iPad is ALWAYS on wi-fi (no 3G on it) and does that standby time.
To the Apple's so called competition: get a clue!
Isn't this whole case about the fact Samsung has figured it out already?
Any company can poll people to find out what they think of Apple products. It's not like Apple is the only company capable of finding Apple customers - call 100 people at random, and 30 of them will be Apple customers.
The determined Real Programmer can write Fortran programs in any language.
Steve Jobs was full of shit? Next you will be telling us that he was an arrogant asshat too!
for shame...
I think that the summary misses a major point. Sure there was a bit of hyperbole when Steve said that Apple never did market research. But every word that came out of that man's mouth was hyperbole. What I think Steve's point was is that Apple doesn't base their product categories on market research. They just use market research for refining products once the categories are established. They didn't base the idea to have an all-touchscreen smartphone, a high capacity hard-drive based mp3 player, or a GUI centric PC on market research. If they did, they would have found out that people were perfectly happy with their blackberry and symbian keyboard smartphones, their low capacity flash mp3 players, and their DOS based IBM PCs.
what you people don't realize is that no matter what you say about Apple, it will ALWAYS be successful! Even with Steve gone Apple has a roadmap that it will follow and they will be successful, PERIOD!! You people just dont get it do you. I remember when people said the iPhone will never sell,,i remember when the iPod came out and critics said it was going nowhere.LOL. The iPod has sold more units then EVERY OTHER MP3 PLAYER COMBINED ON THIS PLANET!!LMFAO. It has sold more music fro the iTunes store and apps from the App store then anyone else ever has or ever will.. You people just dont get it do you. I laugh at Apple Haters, just jealous of SUCCESS and products that actually do change your life..
That's pretty rediculous, $1.1 billion advertising two new products?! I always knew Apple was a marketing company but damn.
This could simply be because I haven't seen regular ad numbers before though. Does anyone know what competing products have spent on advertising? That kind of information would help make more sense of their numbers.
Apple doesn't do market research for product design. They do market research for customer satisfaction all the time.
How does Apple presenting an argument in a court case amount to "coming clean"? If they didn't make the arguments for keeping these sealed their oh-so-amazing case studies would be out.
That's not coming clean. That's standard legal babble.
There's a great picture along those lines: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2124177/internet-memes-he-was-the-first.jpg.
For those that don't wish to look at it it has Bill Gates introducing the tablet PC in 2002 and says "no one cares", in 2010 Apple introduces the iPad and "the world pisses itself like and excited dog." In 2012 MS rolls out the surface and "People claim they stole the idea from Apple." The final frame is a picture of Patrick Stewart in ST:TNG holding a PADD with the caption "Bitches, please."
Apple is rarely first on something, they rarely invent something. Nothing wrong with that, it is true of most companies. They just want to sell it like they are.
What Apple really does is sell fashion. The iPod wasn't amazingly successful because it was an MP3 player, it was amazingly successful because it was a fashion accessory. To own one was to be cool, and thus everyone wanted to own one. Suddenly the style for earbuds was bright white (something Shure, Etymotic, etc had never had demand for before) with the cable hanging down the front of your shirt to proclaim ownership to all (just like in the commercials).
Apple makes products people want as status symbols, as fashion, regardless of need for them. That is a great market if you can get it because not only is it big, but fashion is very price insensitive, indeed higher prices can be better. Consumer electronics is extremely price sensitive and charging a premium is hard. However in fashion, no problem.
Part of that image is convincing people they were the first in the world to ever do something and that because of that it is really cool.
Smug, clueless assholes with piles of money and no interest in their fellow human beings?
I'm starting to get this sinking feeling that Tim Cook is going to become the Steve Ballmer of Apple. Capable, probably hitting numbers...but also not being very good. Sure, they did market research with Steve...but if Steve were alive, do you think he would have just taken the loss and dropped this patent nonsense and remained secretive? Isn't one of Apple's trademark achievements being a secretive company and now they are spilling their guts in court while also making everyone in the industry absolutely hate their stances on patent disputes. Meanwhile Google and Microsoft both are nipping at their heels. If Microsoft ever gets traction with Windows Phone 8 as Google has with Android...it could hit Apple hard. I think this is trying times for all 3 companies, but it seems like Microsoft and Google are moving in the right direction in the mobile space (desktop space is questionable) while Apple is stuck fighting over tedious things and divulging their secrets. This is so un-Apple esque. If there was ever one thing I respected about Apple it was their genius marketing and ability to build culture...seems Cook is cutting against that tradition.
There is nothing for Apple to "come clean" about. They never said they didn't do market research (especially how it was described in the trial as tuning their marketing). What they have consistently said is that they don't use focus groups for product development.
"It's really hard to design products by focus groups. A lot of times, people don't know what they want until you show it to them."
-- Steve Jobs, BusinessWeek, May 25 1998
By having the sense to look up what he actually said, instead of relying on media soundbites. Here's what he told Business Week in 1988:
Q: Did you do consumer research on the iMac when you were developing it?
A: No. We have a lot of customers, and we have a lot of research into our installed base. We also watch industry trends pretty carefully. But in the end, for something this complicated, it's really hard to design products by focus groups. A lot of times, people don't know what they want until you show it to them. That's why a lot of people at Apple get paid a lot of money, because they're supposed to be on top of these things.
So now we're seeing breathless media reports saying "Apple does research into their installed base, proving that Jobs was lying when he said that Apple did not do this!!!" Except of course that Jobs specifically said that Apple did do that. If you look at the context of Jobs' statements about Apple not doing market research, you'll see that all of them are in the context of how Apple designs new products, as opposed to how they improve existing ones.
If they don't want to reveal stuff in court, maybe they should stop suing everyone
This is a joke. I am joking. Joke joke joke.
So ho much did Samsung spend on advertising?
Maybe they should ask the average american? I, myself, would love to by The Homer http://simpsons.wikia.com/wiki/The_Homer
I don't know where else to post this. Is there a way to stop any apple and apple/samsung patent war posts from being displayed to me? I can't express how much I don't care to see this on slashdot while I browse for interesting things, but seemingly have to. Is there a way to block these types of posts?
That's a fine comparison if you really need a small computer, or a powerful one.
The thing is, I'm a non-gaming software developer. My main dev machine is a laptop with an i5 with 8GB of RAM. It does everything I need it to do, including running multiple VMs while simultaneously building code. I haven't noticed it slowing me down significantly compared to what an i7 could do.
My secondary laptop is used mostly for web browsing, typing documents, facebook, and watching downloaded HD video on the TV. It's an i3 with 3GB of RAM and it does those tasks just fine.
If you don't actually _need_ the i7 then there are cheaper options. A Dell Vostro 260 desktop is currently available for $429. It's got a 3.1GHz i5 CPU, 4GB of RAM (but that's easily dealt with), and Intel graphics (also easily dealt with if needed).
Did you know any person how has already been baptised, can baptise another person.
There is no exclusive club or requirements besides one.
The official church has no monopoly.
Liberty freedom are no1, not dicks in suits.
A fitting epitaph...
Steve Jobs never said Apple doesn't do at least some market research. What he said was the products don't stem from market research and boardroom decisions. I believe Apple's marketing is targeted at how to sell the really cool-yet-secrative things they are making now that none of us know about, as opposed to market research that dictates what they should make next.
1. Aspiration.
Some people aspire to being considered part of certain groups and feel that the caché of carrying such devices will help this.
2. Fashion
When all the "right people" seem to have iShiny devices, they will be copied. Similarly to 1.
3. Rumour
There are rumours that insist that iDevices are more reliable, easier to use, even better value for your money.
4. Price
Some people genuinely believe that paying more for something makes it better than something that costs less, even if there are no other improvements.
5. Condideration
Some people have considered the matter and examined the matter and genuinely believe Apple makes better phones & tablets.
6. Stupidity
Some people have not thought about it and think it looks pretty.
7. Gullibility
Some people believe advertisements.
I'll see your Constitution and raise you a Queen.
the i7 machine is a standard ATX board, which you can buy dozens of cases that are fancy, and no i dont want a stupid fucked up cube, where I cant put in 3x HDs, and bluray drive + SSD + 16gig ram + 2 PCIe cards.
And my i7 is dead quiet. Does apple offer a $500 solid gold heatsink?
Liberty freedom are no1, not dicks in suits.
No one cares what your scum evil wholesalers are doing, and refusing to sell to AU or other countries at the same USA rate.
Yes, I buy parts, but it still cost me $500 to build a 3.4ghz i7, none of this crap 2.4ghz shit
Liberty freedom are no1, not dicks in suits.